Relationships on Lucifer: "Self worth comes from within, bitches."

[MostlyC]

Relationships with Lucifer, relationships on Lucifer, or under Lucifer, or beside.... you get the drift. 

Discuss the myriad relationships on the show.

[Jacks-Son]

For some reason, I'm under the impression that ever since Lucifer realized that he was feeling "something" for that Decker woman, he has lost his field of wild oats and can't seem to find it to sow them anymore. I'm sure there will be battles galore in this thread, considering that last few posts in the "Lucifer in the Media" thread.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jacks-Son

[CheshireCat]

Quoting from the media thread:

 

On ‎18‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 7:31 PM, Mabinogia said:

To point A: Yes, playboy Lucifer is why I turned on to this show. I LOVE him as a single, hedonistic playboy running a nightclub. I really don't want a domesticated devil. BLECH

To point B: I'd say (mostly platonic but all better than L&C) Lucy & Trixie, Lucy & Linda, Lucy & Maz, Trixie and Maze, Maze & Amen (romantic, they're hot together), Maze & Linda, Lucy and Dan, Maze & Chloe (really the only time I like Chloe is with Maze)...Lucy & his car (I am in love with that car!), Lucy and that girl who died in the first ep, Lucy and every other person he's interacted with...and still not Lucy and Chloe. I don't hate them as partners, but I despise the thought of them as a couple on so many Levels.

I actually love them as partners and friends. Somehow their relationship/chemistry works perfectly for that but I don't see any chemistry beyond that. Their fun together but they don't seem to be attracted to each other and I'm just not feeling them romantically. That's why I'm bothered so much by their romantic relationship because it's not just there between the actors.

While I'm also bothered by the fact that a relationship with Chloe would take away "playboy" Lucifer, I would be okay with that if there were at least romantic chemistry between Lucifer and Chloe.

 

On ‎18‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 7:04 PM, Fireball said:

Lucifer-Chloe-Dan didn't really feel like a traditional love triangle to me. I'm probably misremembering, but I don't remember Lucifer being in love with Chloe when Dan still had feelings for her.  Or maybe I was ok with the love triangle because I was hoping that the writers would be original and have Chloe get back with Dan. This potential new love triangle is annoying me because it's been done so many times before on other shows, and I just have no interest in watching it. As much as I wish they weren't it's obvious Lucifer & Chloe are end game, so I really don't see the point of another love triangle.  

 

I think by the time Dan was still in love with Chloe, Lucifer was more intrigued by Chloe than in love with her. I also though that Chloe and Dan had chemistry and I also think that there's a difference to what they're going to be doing now.

A good love triangle can be done, and has been done, but I think they only happen when they're not obvious love triangles, meaning, it's not about one of the parties involved being jealous. I think it worked well in Castle when two were in a relationship and the third party, while not giving up hope, was accepting of the relationship, or at least, trying to be. But this does not sound like it's going to be like that but rather that the new man will be competition for Lucifer and seen as such, so they'll go the usual rounds of man #2 is trying to wow Chloe and Chloe will be wowed and Lucifer making a fool of himself and being told that he's just jealous. I'm hoping I'm wrong but so far, the show seems to be following more and more in the footsteps of "traditional Hollywood", so I'm expecting "the worst".

 

 

16 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

If I saw them as fun I'd like them. I just don't. Rather than him bringing her up I feel like she drags him down. I actually prefer Dan and Chloe together. I feel like they fit better while either Chloe or Lucy will have to change drastically to be a couple and I don't want that. As partners they play well off each other. If they end up in a relationship the partnership will change. Unless Chloe has no self respect and doesn't mind watching her boyfriend flirt with everything with boobs or Lucy becomes a good, chaste boy who only has eyes for one little mortal which, why bother making him the Devil?

This! I've been saying that ever since they started hinting at Chloe and Lucifer!

Domesticating Lucifer would kind of be like domesticating James Bond. Sometimes the playboy thing just works and it certainly works on and for Lucifer.

[Jacks-Son]

I'm not religious AT ALL, but is no one curious why "Dad" had Amenadude work his magic on Mr. & Mrs. Decker?  She was put in his path and they met; does that not indicate "Fate"? Perhaps we can consider the age old question of "Fate" versus "Free Will". 

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

I'm not religious AT ALL, but is no one curious why "Dad" had Amenadude work his magic on Mr. & Mrs. Decker?  She was put in his path and they met; does that not indicate "Fate"? Perhaps we can consider the age old question of "Fate" versus "Free Will". 

If you like, check out the corresponding episode threads. You'll find discussion about both, why Chloe was put in Lucifer's path and "free will" vs "fate" :-)

That said, "God's plan" is one of the ongoing interesting themes, as is that Lucifer is so convinced that it's all Dad's plan. The priest didn't really contradict, so I'm assuming that he, too, believes, it's God's plan, he just mentioned that it may not be finished. But I guess, the question is if it really is.

[Danny Franks]

I started off rooting for Lucifer and Chloe to get together, in a low key 'well, I'm supposed to' sort of way. I wasn't really invested in the idea, but I did enjoy them as antagonistic friends. But, when they actually kissed, my reaction was that it just felt wrong. There was no fire, no heat, nothing to justify the build up, and nothing that felt worthy of Lucifer bring prepared to fall for a human.

Chloe just doesn't feel like a big enough deal for the devil to lose his heart over. And she certainly isn't "heaven sent". Its partly the actress (Not that I think she's bad, just poorly suited to being this romantic lead), partly the writing, but it just doesn't convince.

The thing with this show is, I love all the friendships, but have no interest in any of the potential romantic couplings.

It's not like Castle, where the early heat between Castle and Beckett was so molten. But then again, it's not like Castle in that the writers have actually bothered to develop the secondary characters and relationships between them, and haven't felt so enslaved to the procedural format that they've shortchanged the on going narrative. They also haven't utterly neutered Lucifer, and removed everything that made him interesting and engaging and a good foil for Chloe, like the writers of Castle did.

[Loandbehold]

I found Chloe interesting in the first season b/c she was immune to Luci's charms. His constant bewilderment was very funny, as was her bemusement and irritation at him. In a show that's about fate, this was one element of randomness. Finding out in season 2 that Chloe was basically manufactured to resist Luci took that away. The only time I've seen any sort of romantic chemistry b/w the two was in Chloe's dream where she ended up fondling his horns. And that was lust and not romantic chemistry. Plus, it had Maze's reaction when Chloe woke up. Which is neither here nor there on the chemistry front, but whenever possible, Maze should be mentioned.  

[flyingdi]

A man who runs a nightclub doesn't seem like a good match for a woman who partly became a cop to avoid the phoniness of L.A.

[CheshireCat]

19 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

 

Chloe has seen Lucifer use his gift from his dad so often that she no longer questions his use of it. If you watch closely during the interrogation, she looks at Lucifer and gives him a nod to go ahead, do his thing. 

Since I think this is more relationship than episode, I'm replying here...

I think Chloe's reactions lack consistency. On the one hand, she trusts him and values his partnership/friendship and she obviously accepted his power to extract someone's desire. And yet, when Lucifer tries to show her his devil face and it doesn't work, she makes it all about herself and doesn't even consider for one second that there really was/is something that Lucifer wanted to show her? Granted, she doesn't have to think that it's his devil face but she knows him quite well, so I would think she can tell by now when he's genuine, and with all of the other clues, all that she has seen and her acceptance of his desire power, as well as his super strength, her reaction seemed a little off. It seems that when it's convenient, TPTB just let her accept/believe something but when it's not, then she is reduced to the whiney (ex) girlfriend who doesn't bother to use her brain, all so that they can draw out the "big reveal".

Couldn't they at least have made her curious again?

[Writing Wrongs]

Have they dropped Chloe's specialness and why she effects Lucifer? I was really wanting to find this out. I binge watched this show and it seems like some stuff has been put aside now. 

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Being a believer is still a little different than knowing for sure that the hot dude consulting with Det. Decker really, truly is the Prince of Darkness.

Replying here instead of the episode thread... Sure it's different and if memory serve, they've mentioned that Chloe used to attend church? so, she does know but I still feel that Ella's more on the "inside" because she can talk about it all as if it were true and while she is welcoming and accepting, Chloe's doubtful and rejecting each time the subject comes up.

 

On ‎16‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 10:32 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

Have they dropped Chloe's specialness and why she effects Lucifer? I was really wanting to find this out. I binge watched this show and it seems like some stuff has been put aside now. 

They left it at the "Lucifer thinks it's all Dad's doing" stage for now.

[CheshireCat]

Probably better to answer in here

39 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I think making her a bounty hunter was pretty genius, actually.  As it was in Season One, Maze was mostly stuck behind the bar at Lucifer's nightclub.  The only interaction she had with most other characters was when they came into that bar.  As a bounty hunter there's reasons for her to interact with Dan and Chloe professionally.  She might even have scenes with Pierce or Charlotte.  The reason Maze is "missing" is that Lesley-Ann Brandt is on maternity leave.  Maze is a very popular character, the show-runners know that and I'm sure they're even more eager than a lot of the fans to get Maze back on TV in real time.

I know why Maze is missing, I still didn't watch the episodes and saw a single scene in which I thought "This one would have been great/better if it had been Maze who had interacted with this or that character".

Originally, I thought they had made a clever choice by making Maze a bounty hunter. Her view of it, hunting humans and getting paid for it, is complete fun. Still, thinking about it, I find it less of a good idea now. Who watches the show primarily for the crime aspect of it/for the cases. Who wants the show to focus on the cases and be primarily about the hunting of criminals? The Maze-centered episode was just that and I enjoyed it and I'm happy for the character. I'm just not interested in following Maze's bounty hunting. I'm interested in Lucifer and his journey. It's why I watch the show and I feel that they have removed Maze from that journey with the story they have given her. And I say that because I didn't think that Maze's absence was noticeable from a story-telling point of view. Her absence was noticed because it's Maze and she's a great character. But the stories weren't really suffering from her absence, in my opinion. They gave me the impression that they would possibly have been written like that even without Brandt on maternity leave. (Probably not because Brandt is a regular and they would probably have found a way to get her into the episode, she just didn't need to be there for the story to work/make sense).

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I'm interested in Lucifer and his journey. It's why I watch the show and I feel that they have removed Maze from that journey with the story they have given her.

I'm interested in several characters' journeys.  Lucifer's is one, but Maze's is another.  I'm okay that Maze's journey diverges from Lucifer's on occasion.  I like that Maze is becoming more her own person instead of Lucifer's hot henchdemon.

[Mabinogia]

I am very interested in Maze's journey because she didn't choose Earth. She doesn't want to be here. I thought it was so interesting how she finally came to accept that she's stuck here and she needs to find a way to make it work. Lucy, more often than not, is a petulant brat who is doing what he does to spit his father. I like her best when she's not off on her own though, as I just love almost every character combo on the show. 

[johntfs]

My weirdest "'ship" would involve a crossover with Legends of Tomorrow.  I'd "'ship" Trixie and young Ray Palmer from the 1988 baby Dominator episode and anyone who says me nay can go straight to shell.

Edited November 5, 2017 by johntfs

[Fireball]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:32 PM, CheshireCat said:

 

Quote

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:02 AM, Mabinogia said:

If I saw them as fun I'd like them. I just don't. Rather than him bringing her up I feel like she drags him down. I actually prefer Dan and Chloe together. I feel like they fit better while either Chloe or Lucy will have to change drastically to be a couple and I don't want that. As partners they play well off each other. If they end up in a relationship the partnership will change. Unless Chloe has no self respect and doesn't mind watching her boyfriend flirt with everything with boobs or Lucy becomes a good, chaste boy who only has eyes for one little mortal which, why bother making him the Devil?

This! I've been saying that ever since they started hinting at Chloe and Lucifer! 

[...]

Domesticating Lucifer would kind of be like domesticating James Bond. Sometimes the playboy thing just works and it certainly works on and for Lucifer.

This is one of the main problems I have with the Lucifer + Chloe romantic pairing. For the relationship to work one of them will have to change. If Lucifer stays the same then Chloe will have to change and be ok with Lucifer flirting with everyone. Also she will have to be ok with Lucifer teaching her daughter how to get around the rules like he did in the episode where he teaches Trixie how to get around the rule of no swearing. But if Chloe stays the same than Lucifer will have to change into a domesticated Lucifer which like you said sometimes the playboy things just works.

After watching last nights episode, I guess we're going for changing Lucifer into a "shoe".  

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:32 PM, CheshireCat said:

I actually love them as partners and friends. Somehow their relationship/chemistry works perfectly for that but I don't see any chemistry beyond that. Their fun together but they don't seem to be attracted to each other and I'm just not feeling them romantically. That's why I'm bothered so much by their romantic relationship because it's not just there between the actors.

I actually like them as partners/friends too. Sadly this season, to me, seems like it's all about hitting us over the head with "look how amazing Chloe is" and "Lucifer really loves Chloe".

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:32 PM, CheshireCat said:

Quoting from the media thread:

How do you quote from another thread? It never works for me. When I try and do it instead of just a plain old quote I get something like this: 

 

 

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:16 PM, Danny Franks said:

Chloe just doesn't feel like a big enough deal for the devil to lose his heart over. And she certainly isn't "heaven sent". Its partly the actress (Not that I think she's bad, just poorly suited to being this romantic lead), partly the writing, but it just doesn't convince.

This Chloe isn't that amazing; although, the show keeps having characters tell us how amazing Chloe is, I still don't believe she's amazing enough for the devil to go gaga over. I also agree that Lauren German really isn't suited to be this romantic lead. Part of it's the writing and part of it's LG's acting. Although, I've seen LG is other roles and imo basically every role LG has played is a version of Chloe, so I think a lot of it's the actress.  I think LG works as a partner/friend of Lucifer, but the romantic angle just doesn't work for me. 

[Mabinogia]

They definitely work better as partners IMO as well. And yes, LG just isn't dynamic enough to convince me that the Devil would not only change who he is to be with her, but more importantly, give Daddy what he wants by falling for her. Wasn't Lucy's whole deal free will against his father? And didn't his father basically create Chloe for him? So he's basically doing exactly what Daddy wants? And why? Because Chloe is just soooooo amazing?

To be honest, they are making me lose interest in Lucy as a character with this obsession with Chloe. I just can't respect him if he's willing to change everything about who he is for some average chick.

Forcing this relationship is ruining both characters. Chloe looks like an idiot for allowing this man she thinks is crazy into her very young, impressionable child's life (not to mention the bounty hunting lunatic she has living with her lol. And Lucy just looks pathetic. Plus, every single character is extoling the virtues of the dullest character on the show.

I really, really wish they had at least played with the idea of reuniting Chloe and Dan. I actually kind of like them together and it would have been quite unexpected. I mean, really, who didn't see Lucy and Chloe coming before the show even started?

[johntfs]

If I was going to "'ship" Lucifer with any of the main characters, I'd 'ship him with Ella.  While she's obviously a good, even religious person, she has plenty of her own crazy and seems accepting enough to let Lucifer be himself.  I think Lucifer likes Chloe and respects her, but the idea that he wants to change who he is just to be with this nice but fairly conventional mom and her kid seems unlikely to me.  I'm it's a phase Lucifer is going through an that if he does end up with Chloe, he's still very much a top hat and not a shoe.

I think it'd be funny if the person who got Lucifer back on the path to being Lucifer was Trixie, like "You used to be really fun to be around, now you're just... blah.  What happened?"

Edited November 22, 2017 by johntfs

[Mabinogia]

53 minutes ago, johntfs said:

If I was going to "'ship" Lucifer with any of the main characters, I'd 'ship him with Ella.

Now that would be interesting. That Ella is a true believer in Dad would be an interesting thing for Lucy to deal with. I've always leaned towards Lucy and Linda because she knows who he really is and accepts him exactly as he is while also helping him explore other options. But they do work better as friends so I'm good with that. I really ship him with anyone other than Chloe at this point. Partly because they have no sexual chemistry for me, it's like watching paint dry watching them "flirt" and partly because the show is trying so very, very hard to force me to ship them and I, like Lucy, will fight to exercise my free will. No matter what the show tries to do, I will not ship Lucy and Chloe. They would have had to cast a more interesting actress for me to ever have gotten on board that ship.

[Lugal]

On 11/21/2017 at 0:10 PM, johntfs said:

If I was going to "'ship" Lucifer with any of the main characters, I'd 'ship him with Ella.

I agree, especially after seeing the two of them in Las Vegas.  Ella's mentioned her own darkness, and we've seen some aspects of that (her criminal brother and her card-counting days) and she mentions the voices.  Combine that with her religious faith and the "voices" and you have some interesting stories.  Especially if Ella is in on the Celestial thing, it would be interesting to see how she interacts with the other Celestials and Linda.

 

On 11/21/2017 at 8:35 AM, Fireball said:

Also she will have to be ok with Lucifer teaching her daughter how to get around the rules like he did in the episode where he teaches Trixie how to get around the rule of no swearing.

This brings up some interesting cosmological ramifications: how far can one really get around the rules, after all Charlotte was used to bending the rules for clients and she ended up in Hell, but this is probably a discussion for another thread.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Lugal said:

This brings up some interesting cosmological ramifications: how far can one really get around the rules, after all Charlotte was used to bending the rules for clients and she ended up in Hell, but this is probably a discussion for another thread.

I can't speak for the show, but I know what Jesus said in the Bible.  Basically it boils down to intent/desire=deed.  If you're married and look at another woman in lust but don't act on it because you think she'd reject you or you're afraid your wife would find out or some other fear of consequences, you've committed the sin of adultery without so much as touching your pants zipper.  If you think you've seen an opportunity to steal something but are afraid you'd caught, that's still theft.  If you wish you could kill somebody  but chicken out due to fear of being caught (or your would-be victim killing you instead, that's murder.

[CheshireCat]

On ‎21‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 10:35 AM, Fireball said:

I actually like them as partners/friends too. Sadly this season, to me, seems like it's all about hitting us over the head with "look how amazing Chloe is" and "Lucifer really loves Chloe".

I recently caught up on and binge-watched the last five episodes and I realized that they characters and their relationships don't seem to be moving forward. Chloe kept going off on Lucifer for being selfish (and it became this front and center issue for two whole episodes when we've already known that since episode one and have kind of accepted Lucifer for who he is), Cain still doesn't think that Lucifer knows what he's doing and is uncooperative, Amenadiel still is hung up on this favorite son bit and that Lucifer is his task and Lucifer was being Lucifer. I don't mind Lucifer being Lucifer. A lot of it is part of his charm and for him, it's natural to still think that Dad's the big manipulator. But it would be nice if the characters could grow a little.

Both Lucifer and Amenadiel just assume that their father intended them to do something without having any idea if it's true. Lucifer rebels against it, Amenadiel is just compliant and it would be nice if either moved on from that and maybe found a clue that they are wrong. (Because if they're not wrong, then Lucifer would actually be right and his anger against his master-manipulator Dad would be justified, so I don't think that's where they're going). Lucifer probably would ignore the clue (which could be an interesting story in itself) but it might make Amenadiel think, so that would be a nice thing to see.

As a celestial being, it would be nice if Cain could show a little hope and start cooperating. Or, if there's a reason for his lack of cooperating (like deep down he doesn't want to die right now) I'd like to start seeing signs of that.

And since severing her ties with Lucifer is not an option, maybe Chloe could just accept him for who he is and deal with that instead of continuously beating him up for that?  

There was a crime story in each episode and the characters solved it but it didn't seem like the characters and their relationships went anywhere in four episodes (since one was the remaining S2 episode). My computer actually froze halfway through the fifth episode and I put off watching the remaining half. That didn't happen during the first two seasons. I was always eager to get another episode. Right now, I couldn't care less because the characters seem to be turning in circles.

Ironically, the only character who seems to be going somewhere at the moment is Charlotte.

 

Quote

How do you quote from another thread? It never works for me. When I try and do it instead of just a plain old quote I get something like this: 

I don't know if there is another way but if I see a quote in, for example, an episode thread and my answer is more about the relationship, I click on the multi-quote button, leave the episode threat, go into the relationship thread, go to the reply box and click on the little box with the quote :-)

Edited February 25, 2018 by CheshireCat

[pootlus]

On 11/29/2020 at 4:40 PM, DarkHorse said:

Is it just me or is there a complete lack of chemistry between Lucifer and Decker? For two people who are supposed to be crazy about each other, I just don't see it. Even when they have intimate moments, there is still no warmth between them.

I am a huge Deckerstar fan, but there is a chemistry deficit.  I see a heap of chemistry during the banter moments, less in the big emotional scenes.

I don't know whether it's the writing or the actors.  I finally got around to watching Miranda recently and tbh Tom Ellis has about 10x more chemistry with Miranda Hart than with Lauren German, I don't know why - maybe it's just a thing that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.  The physical scenes between Lucifer/Chloe just seem a bit off, unless it's about emotional comfort.

Edit because more thoughts: I take the instance when they finally sleep together.  The scene before, for all the payoff, just seems a bit awkward, like LG isn't really into it.  The bedroom scene the next episode that takes the morning after, on the other hand, is fantastic and there's tons of chemistry there.

Edited December 6, 2020 by pootlus

[Gwendolyn]

9 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

I sometimes wonder if German regrets leaving Chicago Fire for Lucifer and that is what we are seeing. 

From an interview I saw, she didn't leave Chicago Fire for Lucifer. She went out for Lucifer because she had been written out of Chicago Fire and was a gigging actor looking for her next job.

I think Decker is written as stand-offish. It's been a bit vague, but the character has made references to her B-list actress mother trying to make her a child star, so she didn't have a regular childhood or friends. Her one experience with a starring role, got her attention she didn't want. So Decker is written as awkward and job focused to avoid a repeat of that.

The characters were written to be the end game, but the chemistry isn't quite there between the leads to back up the writing, but enough to make it work (which isn't quite as bad as other shows where chemistry is there for a couple who are not the end game and the writers don't course correct to take advantage). Sometimes it feels like Ellis is doing the heavy lifting, but that could just be how Lucifer is written vs Decker. I think the chemistry got better in seasons 4 and 5, but that's because they weren't actively throwing things in to keep the characters apart.

[pootlus]

1 hour ago, Gwendolyn said:

I think Decker is written as stand-offish. It's been a bit vague, but the character has made references to her B-list actress mother trying to make her a child star, so she didn't have a regular childhood or friends. Her one experience with a starring role, got her attention she didn't want. So Decker is written as awkward and job focused to avoid a repeat of that.

I agree on this - Chloe is supposed to be rather emotionally stunted and I think German does fine with this (I say this because I have seen people criticise her acting, I think she's fine 95% of the time).  She does bring the big emotional moments when Chloe is breaking down (thinking of the end of S4) perfectly well and I appreciate an actress who's not afraid to ugly cry.

1 hour ago, Gwendolyn said:

The characters were written to be the end game, but the chemistry isn't quite there between the leads to back up the writing, but enough to make it work (which isn't quite as bad as other shows where chemistry is there for a couple who are not the end game and the writers don't course correct to take advantage). Sometimes it feels like Ellis is doing the heavy lifting, but that could just be how Lucifer is written vs Decker.

I think he does do a lot of the heavy lifting but agree that it's partly the relative skill of the actors (I think Ellis is extremely good and hope he goes on to have a massive career after Lucifer) and partly the way the characters are written.  That said Lucifer's never been in love before and he's handling it with his trademark narcissism and a good chunk of immaturity so...heh.

As you said it's good enough to get the job done and they definitely have their moments.

Honestly a lot of my issues this season are to do with the way the makeup team insist on doing Chloe's eyebrows, I have a whole essay about that because it's incredibly distracting.

Edited December 8, 2020 by pootlus