S03.E16: Part 16

[Cheezwiz]

I feel like I would like to see some sort of topographic map or infographic poster showing all of the strange realms featured: The Black Lodge, The Purple Palace, The Lair of the Giant (Was that supposed to be the White Lodge?), The Convenience Store, possibly the Bang Bang Bar.

I'd love to see how these places relate to one another, the beings that inhabit them, and how they enter and exit.

As I'm typing this, it's calling to mind some wild Buddhist art that I've seen depicting different realms or planes of existence. I wonder if that was something Lynch took as inspiration, and mashed up with dream imagery. I dunno, but I think it would be a fun project to depict visually.

[minamurray78]

Once the season's over, I'm gonna take a look at the detailed timeline that I'm sure smart and dedicated viewers are already working on, to try to match the events from Twin Peaks, Vegas and wherever Mr. C has been around making his phone calls and messages. 

About the ring, IIRC when someone dies while wearing it, the body stays in this world, but both the person's soul and the ring wind up in the Red Room. When Ray got killed Mr.C put the ring on him and we see them appear in the Red Room. Ray was commissioned to kill Mr. C and put the ring on him I guess to send him back there, but couldn't do it. Ray was "healed" first. Diane got shot, her body dissapered right away and ended up there anyway perhaps because she was a tulpa, not a doppelganger?

Now, Dougie WAS wearing the ring though during the "switch vomit" incident. Perhaps because Mr C's intentions were for the Dougie tulpa's body to stay on this world so that Cooper would be deviated to that body?? I'm giving myself a headache.

Edited August 28, 2017 by minamurray78

[ichbin]

1 hour ago, JustCrazy said:

Jacque Renault was behind the bar.  He was killed by Lealand/Bo

Same actor but the credits for Return listed him as Jean-Michel Renault.

[paigow]

EvilCooper has lost his minions...no way he survives...Team GoodCooper has the FBI, T-Bag and a Blues Brother...

[uoflfan]

On 8/27/2017 at 9:02 PM, TexasGal said:

 I don't know which made me more excited, FBICooper is back or Eddie Vedder (squee!).

This was the best episode yet.  It's like "Dougie" heard me screaming "WAKE UP COOPER" all these weeks.  It's so great to have FBI Agent Dale Cooper back.  Then we get Diane dissolving, Eddie Vedder and Audrey waking up probably in a some kind of hospital.  I'm not sure what is up with Aubrey and we may never know. 

R.I.P. Chantal.  I still adore Jennifer Jason Leigh.  She has always been an underrated actress in underrated films, like Delores Claiborne co-starring Kathy Bates.  That movie should've garnered them both awards.  I firmly believe it's the best adaptation of a King novel.  In fact, Monday I was thinking the eclipse would be a great time for a unhappy woman's husband to have a happy accident.  lol.

Also, kudos to Laura Dern.  She was fabulous, as was Naomi Watts.  I do hope we get some quality Sheryl Lee as Laura Palmer in some form other than a face in the 2 hour finale.  I thought she was fabulous on original Twin Peaks and in FWWM, an underrated film.  Speaking from personal experience as a rape survivor, she broke my heart in that role and all of Laura's actions were completely understandable for anyone who has been through that.  (It's a Lynchian coincidence that Sheryl Lee and I share the same birthday, we both have only one child, (17 year old son), we both have rare hereditary blood disorders and we are both PETA supporters and environmental activists.)

Stay hot, Bobby Briggs and call me, Dana Ashbrook!  AARP eligible actors Dana Ashbrook, Kyle MacLachlan and Michael Horse still rock this AARP eligible woman's world, as did Miguel Ferrer (rest in peace).  The only other Twin Peaks actor I had the hots for back in the day was Eric Da Re (Leo Johnson).  It appears Leo did not survive season 2 and, sadly, Eric has not aged as well as the other actors. 

Finally,  I have so much respect for David Lynch and Mark Frost for casting mature actors/actresses who actually look their age for the return, rather than recasting roles or adding hot young characters.   The only youthful characters added to the return made sense in the Twin Peaks world.

Does anyone know how the ratings have been for the return and whether they merit another season (like The X-Files return has)?  I'm such a huge Lynch fan that I'll watch whatever he films until one of us dies.

Edited August 29, 2017 by uoflfan

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

 

I feel like I would like to see some sort of topographic map or infographic poster showing all of the strange realms featured: The Black Lodge, The Purple Palace, The Lair of the Giant (Was that supposed to be the White Lodge?), The Convenience Store, possibly the Bang Bang Bar.

 

 

Maybe this will help.

2 hours ago, uoflfan said:

Does anyone know how the ratings have been for the return and whether they merit another season (like The X-Files return has)?  I'm such a huge Lynch fan that I'll watch whatever he films until one of us dies.

I think the TV ratings have generally been -- not great. However, the show seems to have hit its stride in the streaming department. I don't know how Showtime execs will view that but KM did say today, when asked if he were allowed to take Agent Cooper's suit home with him as a souvenir, "No, it went to the archives" and then hinted that he may need to wear it again..."maybe." 

I watched Ep3 again today and am hoping that the Laura Palmer who died was a tulpa -- "I am dead, yet I live." Wouldn't that be a kicker?

[Starchild]

14 hours ago, jamblastx said:

I cannot say that the passing of Chantal and Hutch affect me as much as it did you Pete, but I would agree that the van rolling down the road silently was extremely creepy and disturbing for some reason

Maybe because there was no music on the soundtrack?

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

I feel like I would like to see some sort of topographic map or infographic poster showing all of the strange realms featured: The Black Lodge, The Purple Palace, The Lair of the Giant (Was that supposed to be the White Lodge?), The Convenience Store, possibly the Bang Bang Bar.

 

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

Maybe this will help.

Wow! @Giant Misfit, this is very similar to what I was imagining in my head! Very cool, thank you!

[JAYJAY1979]

Ever since Audrey did her dance at the start of season 1, I've always wondered if she was connected to the spirit world...not that she's a spirit..but has a connection with it.  Glad to see she does...im just wondering if she's in a coma..or if she is also on a journey to get back to Twin Peaks as well?

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Maybe this will help.

I think the TV ratings have generally been -- not great. However, the show seems to have hit its stride in the streaming department. I don't know how Showtime execs will view that but KM did say today, when asked if he were allowed to take Agent Cooper's suit home with him as a souvenir, "No, it went to the archives" and then hinted that he may need to wear it again..."maybe." 

David Nevins talked last week about the numbers and what it had done for the channel. (it starts around 25 minutes in)

https://www.theringer.com/2017/8/24/16200908/joker-origins-logan-lucky-david-nevins-twin-peaks-podcast

[Lemons]

On 8/27/2017 at 9:02 PM, TexasGal said:

After all these episodes of plodding, I feel certain I missed things in that action packed one!  I don't know which made me more excited, FBICooper is back or Eddie Vedder (squee!).

Eddie Vedder looked weird, like he had plastic surgery.

[dwmckim]

56 minutes ago, Lemons said:

Eddie Vedder looked weird, like he had plastic surgery.

Maybe he's Donna's doppelganger.

 

The thing that really got me about the Chantal/Hutch death scene was i was expecting that still slowly moving van to crash through a totally innocent person's house which i was glad to not see happen.

 

I've already chowed on Wendy's while sitting down to watch a new episode, next week's definitely gonna include finger sandwiches!

 

So when Diane finally made her confession, would that be considered a "mea tulpa?"

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, dwmckim said:

So when Diane finally made her confession, would that be considered a "mea tulpa?"

Old school Albert would approve. 

[Moxie Cat]

13 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I watched Ep3 again today and am hoping that the Laura Palmer who died was a tulpa -- "I am dead, yet I live." Wouldn't that be a kicker?

I LOVE this idea. It would also fit with Leland telling Cooper to find Laura, and provide a reason for all the tulpa education we've gotten. And didn't Fake Diane get sucked away in a very similar fashion to Laura in the Red Room?

And honestly, if you bring real Laura and real Cooper back, I can see that being a logical conclusion to the show. Obviously there's always more to learn about Twin Peaks and stories to tell, but wrapping up Laura and Cooper feel like the endgame here. (And characters/stories like Audrey and Sarah fit into that.)

Diane looks like Laura Dern. Cole and Albert had met her previously. So if real Diane is Naido, then perhaps the original person can be housed in a different body after a tulpa is created? If Naido were Diane, then it makes sense that she would try desperately to communicate with Cooper in the purple tower and that she would try to help him. But given that Diane is blonde Janey-E's half-sister and Gordon and Albert knew her, I'm guessing Laura Dern is her true appearance.

So if a Tulpa can be in another body, then the theory that Laura is in Candie, and operating at a Dougie's level, waiting to be woken up, makes sense. I would guess that Diane is similarly trapped in Naido, unable to see or communicate.

I'm really glad that the Mitchum brothers storyline has turned out to be very relevant, including the Red Room leading Dougie to win those jackpots. I had doubts about all these new story lines early on.

Shelly was in the Bang Bang too. I can't see how it can be extra dimensional, given that Hawk and Bobby went there to arrest James and the English kid and brought them back to the station.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[PatternRec]

Dale's back! 

Here's my thoughts about this episode and some predictions for the last two:

• Maybe Audrey is also a Doppelganger? If Mr C was able to get Diane under his control and replace her by starting with an evil kiss he could have done the same thing to Audrey when he fathered Richard. The real Audrey could be in one of the Lodges. I'm not really sure what that white room was. I've resisted the coma theory this long and I'm not giving in to it until it's proven.
• As we all now know Naido is Diane. Major Briggs was hiding her from Mr C. Maybe that's why Mr C didn't have complete control over her. I'm not sure if Mr C's plan needs her for some reason or not.
• As a matter of fact we still don't know what Mr C's plan is. The White Lodge wants to stop him because he's evil, but he is also actively defying the Black Lodge by not returning after 25 years, so I assume he is somehow going up against his Mother/The Experiment herself (symbolized by the round black symbol with the owl wings)? And if this is his plan why does he need Diane?  
• I'm not sure what will happen with the Blue Rose group other than them ending up in TP with Real Coop et al.
• Dale and Mr C have a show down. Dale wins and ascends to become a member of the White Lodge. Mike makes a Doppelganger of good Coop from the Seed and Coop's hair and the good Doppelganger becomes Dougie Jones and returns to be a good husband and father to Janey-E and Sonny Jim. Lynch is 71 and this is an 18 hour culmination of a lifetime of exploring shadow realms via film and television and other media. It's also his baby. I think he wants Dale to have a happy and heroic ending. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by PatternRec
clarity

[uoflfan]

If Twin Peaks does not garner a huge amount of Emmy noms next year and Kyle Mac doesn't win one, I may riot.  Nobody deserves one more than Kyle, playing triple roles so well.  

It will as big a miscarriage of justice as Michael Kenneth Williams not yet winning an Emmy.   He's nominated this year for "The Night Of" this year so I have some hope.  (IMO and OT he should've been nominated for Hap and Leonard but I don't think many people are aware of that Sundance show.  Somebody, other than me, must be watching since it's been renewed for a 3rd season.  If you like darkly comic noir, check it out.  James Purefoy and MKW are fabulous as the title characters and s1 and s2 are only 6 episodes each.)  #OmarLittlelives.

Edited August 30, 2017 by uoflfan

[Affogato]

On 8/29/2017 at 0:15 PM, PatternRec said:

Dale's back! 

Here's my thoughts about this episode and some predictions for the last two:

• Maybe Audrey is also a Doppelganger? If Mr C was able to get Diane under his control and replace her by starting with an evil kiss he could have done the same thing to Audrey when he fathered Richard. The real Audrey could be in one of the Lodges. I'm not really sure what that white room was. I've resisted the coma theory this long and I'm not giving in to it until it's proven.
• As we all now know Naido is Diane. Major Briggs was hiding her from Mr C. Maybe that's why Mr C didn't have complete control over her. I'm not sure if Mr C's plan needs her for some reason or not.
• As a matter of fact we still don't know what Mr C's plan is. The White Lodge wants to stop him because he's evil, but he is also actively defying the Black Lodge by not returning after 25 years, so I assume he is somehow going up against his Mother/The Experiment herself (symbolized by the round black symbol with the owl wings)? And if this is his plan why does he need Diane?  
• I'm not sure what will happen with the Blue Rose group other than them ending up in TP with Real Coop et al.
• Dale and Mr C have a show down. Dale wins and ascends to become a member of the White Lodge. Mike makes a Doppelganger of good Coop from the Seed and Coop's hair and the good Doppelganger becomes Dougie Jones and returns to be a good husband and father to Janey-E and Sonny Jim. Lynch is 71 and this is an 18 hour culmination of a lifetime of exploring shadow realms via film and television and other media. It's also his baby. I think he wants Dale to have a happy and heroic ending. 

The Diane thing is confusing. Tulpas, according to Wikipedia (anyway) don't have to look like their originator and Naido could be a tulpa of the soul, even a piece of Diane torn off at the time of her death during the rape. Some of that stuff we saw leaving the hit and run victim. That would make the tulpa that looked like her frantic since she would remember dying and might explain why Naido is so strange.

Remembering that mr C wanted bureau news and may have made the Tulpa Diane to feed him that news. He may not have planned to kill Diane.  That may be why she quit the FBI, in the end she was strong willed and could defy him to some extent. Staying away from the FBI is passive, I'm sure the drugs helped her stay away even if that was her purpose.

Diane talking about how happy she was to see Cooper broke my heart.

What place is he looking for? It does sound like the entrance to Garland's pocket universe since the coordinates showed up on Ruth's arm. Or Garlands arm. You know, that arm with the coordinates.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure on second viewing that the hair/seed is replacing Dale in Janey-e's arms. I'm also sure that dad could drive and play catch. I don't know what I was thinking.

I believe he left the ring under the pillow. I don't think he plans on returning to the lodge. Although the ring has a way of showing up where it is needed. I think. Maybe.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Affogato

[dwmckim]

My final prediction on how Twin Peaks: The Return will end... even though it's speculation, i'm so sure this is going to be correct that i'm spoiler tagging it:

Spoiler

...with closing credits

[Cthulhudrew]

Great episode. I still find it a little hard to believe that Mr. Law and Order Cooper wouldn't have an issue with the Mitchum brothers, regardless of how big their "hearts of gold" are, though.

One thing I'm really struggling with this season, especially after this episode, is where the Black Lodge fits into things. Mythology from the early seasons seemed to suggest that it was a dark, evil place, responsible for bringing misery and evil into the world like BOB. I'm pretty sure the Bookhouse Boys even outright state that to be the case at one point.

Yet, this season it seems almost to be a bit benevolent, at least in the actions of Mike and the mission they've sent Cooper on. Yes, part of that is probably self-interest in getting Evil Cooper back to the Lodge, perhaps to restore whatever sense of cosmic balance allows the Black Lodge to exist, but when Mike agrees to create another doppelganger like Dougie to return to Janey-E and Sonny Jim- well, that comes across as less pragmatic and more of a good thing, the antithesis of what the BL is there for. So are they agreeing to it as payment of some kind to Coop for his help in getting Evil Coop "cooped" up again? Or are we misreading what the BL is really all about in the first place?

On another note, I'm still disappointed that the Bookhouse Boys haven't been active as a group this season. Big Ed has been completely shut out of all the weird goings on that Hawk has been a part of, and I'd have thought for sure that they'd have recruited Bobby after he put his bad boy days behind him, but I can't even tell if there is a Bookhouse Boys any longer.

[Affogato]

11 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Great episode. I still find it a little hard to believe that Mr. Law and Order Cooper wouldn't have an issue with the Mitchum brothers, regardless of how big their "hearts of gold" are, though.

One thing I'm really struggling with this season, especially after this episode, is where the Black Lodge fits into things. Mythology from the early seasons seemed to suggest that it was a dark, evil place, responsible for bringing misery and evil into the world like BOB. I'm pretty sure the Bookhouse Boys even outright state that to be the case at one point.

Yet, this season it seems almost to be a bit benevolent, at least in the actions of Mike and the mission they've sent Cooper on. Yes, part of that is probably self-interest in getting Evil Cooper back to the Lodge, perhaps to restore whatever sense of cosmic balance allows the Black Lodge to exist, but when Mike agrees to create another doppelganger like Dougie to return to Janey-E and Sonny Jim- well, that comes across as less pragmatic and more of a good thing, the antithesis of what the BL is there for. So are they agreeing to it as payment of some kind to Coop for his help in getting Evil Coop "cooped" up again? Or are we misreading what the BL is really all about in the first place?

On another note, I'm still disappointed that the Bookhouse Boys haven't been active as a group this season. Big Ed has been completely shut out of all the weird goings on that Hawk has been a part of, and I'd have thought for sure that they'd have recruited Bobby after he put his bad boy days behind him, but I can't even tell if there is a Bookhouse Boys any longer.

Good Cooper was in there 25 years. I get the impression he is friends with the one armed man but not the disembodied arm. 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Affogato
Insert issue

[dwmckim]

The Red Room - identified as the Waiting Room - seems to be a part of the Black Lodge - more a type of purgatory.  There can exist good, bad, and neutral/both entities.  

Edited September 1, 2017 by dwmckim

[Affogato]

17 hours ago, dwmckim said:

The Red Room - identified as the Waiting Room - seems to be a part of the Black Lodge - more a type of purgatory.  There can exist good, bad, and neutral/both entities.  

Well mike could also be making a deal with Dale. Dale leaves the family to fight bad Cooper and get the lodge on track with Bob and mike makes a new Dougie. Still I think there is some hint of understanding in their interaction, some closeness..

[PatternRec]

On 8/31/2017 at 9:44 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

Great episode. I still find it a little hard to believe that Mr. Law and Order Cooper wouldn't have an issue with the Mitchum brothers, regardless of how big their "hearts of gold" are, though.

The Mitchums aren't great people, but I think Dale knows there are bigger things at stake here. 

On 8/31/2017 at 9:44 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

One thing I'm really struggling with this season, especially after this episode, is where the Black Lodge fits into things. Mythology from the early seasons seemed to suggest that it was a dark, evil place, responsible for bringing misery and evil into the world like BOB. I'm pretty sure the Bookhouse Boys even outright state that to be the case at one point.

Yet, this season it seems almost to be a bit benevolent, at least in the actions of Mike and the mission they've sent Cooper on. Yes, part of that is probably self-interest in getting Evil Cooper back to the Lodge, perhaps to restore whatever sense of cosmic balance allows the Black Lodge to exist, but when Mike agrees to create another doppelganger like Dougie to return to Janey-E and Sonny Jim- well, that comes across as less pragmatic and more of a good thing, the antithesis of what the BL is there for. So are they agreeing to it as payment of some kind to Coop for his help in getting Evil Coop "cooped" up again? Or are we misreading what the BL is really all about in the first place?

In season two there was a lot of discussion about there being a Black Lodge and a White Lodge. They seem to be connected, and your experience with them depends on if you approach with fear or love. 

Also in this season, Hawk points out the same thing on his map. I forget the specifics, but there's fire and diseased corn and when they mix you get black fire. 

[PatternRec]

Also, how did I get this far into the series and not connect "Silver Mustang" Casino with the White Horse from the Lodges?