A New Beginning: OUAT 2.0

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, Camera One said:

If you must know, she was in another Dome having a honeymoon with Wish Robin Hood and eating Wish Cake.

Wish Cake is like regular cake, except we're not sure if it's real or not.

[RolloTomasi]

Does Wish Cake have its own backstory independent of Cake’s backstory?  

Edited February 28, 2018 by RolloTomasi

[Rumsy4]

51 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If the latter, did Princess Emma just disappear from existence and get replaced with Emma?

Read my fics to know the answer. :-p 

[KingOfHearts]

11 minutes ago, RolloTomasi said:

Does Wish Cake have its own backstory independent of Cake’s backstory?  

Yes. Be careful, though - if you order Cake, the waiter might serve you Wish Cake as well because they're the same thing but not really.

Quote

Read my fics to know the answer. :-p 

I thought you wrote something about that! I was going to check it out. This isn't the only show I've seen where a character gets taken to an alternate universe and the audiences wonders what happened to their counterpart.

Edited February 28, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

50 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Wish Cake is like regular cake, except we're not sure if it's real or not.

Hey--maybe it's good for dieting. Clone Queen stopped juice-fasting when she discovered the marvels of Wish Cake.

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

Hey--maybe it's good for dieting. Clone Queen stopped juice-fasting when she discovered the marvels of Wish Cake.

Is it still murder if I kill the Wish Cake's baker but not the Cake's?

[RolloTomasi]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Is it still murder if I kill the Wish Cake's baker but not the Cake's?

No, because Wish Cake isn’t real. Wish Cupcakes, however, are definitely real and are now out for revenge. 

[Rumsy4]

8 hours ago, RolloTomasi said:

8 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Is it still murder if I kill the Wish Cake's baker but not the Cake's?

No, because Wish Cake isn’t real. Wish Cupcakes, however, are definitely real and are now out for revenge. 

It’s not murder if you’re Regina. It’s murder if you’re Snow. Duh.

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

When Henry used the potion to summon Hook, Emma, and Regina, why didn't it drag Clone Queen with it?

I think it's because the potion only actually summoned Hook, since it was Hook's bottle. Hook heard the message asking for help and told Regina and Emma. If Hook Prime hadn't told Regina Henry needed help, she might not have known. WHook wasn't in touch with either Clone Queen or Wish Regina, and his motive in going was to meet up with Emma, so he came alone. Clone Queen, Regina, and Wish Regina didn't have the bottle that could get the message.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Clone Queen, Regina, and Wish Regina didn't have the bottle that could get the message.

The Three Reginas chould be an episode for the final season. 

[Shanna Marie]

12 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

The Three Reginas chould be an episode for the final season. 

Throw in 2017 Storybrooke Regina, in addition to back in time via curse Regina, and we could have four Reginas. Then have a curse that turns everyone into Regina (like that Doctor Who episode in which everyone on earth turned into the Master), and we would achieve A&E's dream.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

It doesn't help that every freaking scene between adult Henry and "Ronnie" seem weirdly flirty. Its super creepy.

That's what comes with hiring a new actor to play an older Henry. We knew it would be inevitable because of that. It's pretty pointless to age him to 28 and give him a daughter. They're just glorified plot devices. At this point, Henry, Jacinda, and Lucy are only there to give Regina, Zelena, WHook, and Rumple drama to care about. Their actions aren't important. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I would have preferred the showrunners to keep Jared around.

Lucy just has no rhyme or reason. We know nothing about her. She's just a placeholder.

Edited March 1, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Do you think 7A would have been more successful if the actor playing Henry instead was Roni's young hot barkeep?  

[Rumsy4]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Do you think 7A would have been more successful if the actor playing Henry instead was Roni's young hot barkeep?  

It might have been more "interesting" ;-)

Things they need to wrap up: 

1. When will Whook and Alice get their memories back and break their Poisoned Heart curse?

2. Lucy vs Henry--who will live??!!

3. How will they breaking the Dark Curse? Whatever that means (break the memory curse on the remaining four people who don't remember? go back to the Disenchanted Forest?)

4. Will Zelena get to keep her Real World Fiance?

5. Will Roni ever find love again?

6. Will Mophead be able to revive her Cult of the Coathangers?

7. Will the villains-turned sadsack heroes defeat Mophead and burn her Secret Garden to the ground?

8. Will Weaver find the Guardian, finally die, and rejoin his abuse-victim dead wife in not!heaven? Will he remember Gidiot before the end?

9. Will Tremaine, Ivy, and Ana once again be a Happy Family? 

10. Will Alice and Robyn get together?

Edited March 1, 2018 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

2. Lucy vs Henry--who will live??!!

Let's keep it simple - they both die. Trolley Problem solved.

Edited March 1, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

And, most importantly, will the audience be able to find one solitary fuck to give? Tune in to find out!

[KingOfHearts]

I don't think the Gothel/Tremaine melodrama is the worst thing ever. I dislike the Henry/Jacinda/Lucy stuff, but not all of S7 is just the devil's handiwork. Granted, it's pretty "meh", but it could have been a lot worse. At least Regina, Zelena, and Rumple haven't done anything offensive. Tiana's not a bad side character, nor is Nick if he's ever utilized. Victoria works far better as Rapunzel than an actual antagonist. WHook and Alice are decently relatable. I just wish the overall story wasn't so insipid. There are ways to write something compelling on a smaller budget. (But apparently the budget is big enough to hire crazy amounts of guest stars.)

Gothel doesn't strike me as "the ultimate Big Bad of the Final Season". The most she could come up to is one of the Queens of Darkness lackeys.

Is it sad that S7 has more substance so far than all of S6? That's really not saying a lot.

Edited March 2, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

33 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

not all of S7 is just the devil's handiwork

The only truly offensive thing to me about Season 7 is the male-rape plot being repeated by the writers. Otherwise the season is mostly just bland. I'm not enraged the way I was over Season 6. 

I find WHook and Alice the most interesting characters this season. But as usual, the show has a dozen different plot lines running at the same time. So, there hasn't been any time to actually build up their relationship or expand on their history more. They're coasting on actor chemistry yet again. 

I had a flash of interest in Ivy and Tiana for one or two episodes. But their centrics killed that interest. Bayou Schmayou.

I'm pinning half my remaining hopes for the season on Zelena. I do hope Zelena doesn't mope too much. Dear lord, to what straits have I arrived...

[Camera One]

I too find it bland and I can't be bothered to care much one way or another.  I can't even think of anything I am even looking forward to.

Last year was worse because it was difficult not to think about the lost potential.  You had these actors for the last season and fully wasted them.  Season 6 was full of undefined concepts and premises that I couldn't buy into... the Land of Untold Stories, the Evil Queen split, The Savior.  This season, there was actually a story to tell, albeit one with characters we don't care about.  

If 7A featured the original characters instead of Adult Henry and Jacinda, and Tremaine, Drizella and Gothel just acted as the villains of the arc, it could have been decent... not great, but decent.  

Edited March 2, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

If 7A featured the original characters instead of Adult Henry and Jacinda, and Tremaine, Drizella and Gothel just acted as the villains of the arc, it could have been decent... not great, but decent.  

I feel like it would have been okay for one of the middle season arcs, like in S4 or S5. It's kind of annoying that it's the final one.

Quote

I'm pinning half my remaining hopes for the season on Zelena. I do hope Zelena doesn't mope too much. Dear lord, to what straits have I arrived...

I love Zelena, but she's not enough to bring this next arc up if 7x10 was any indication. She's become too homogenized. She's the wallpaper behind the wallpaper. (Which is Regina this season.)

Edited March 2, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

For sure.  The final arc of this show should have been epic.  At the very least, a parade of guest stars for the last 5 or so hours.  Some shows have done this with the remaining episodes they had after finding out it would be the final season.  

[CCTC]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

At the very least, a parade of guest stars for the last 5 or so hours.  Some shows have done this with the remaining episodes they had after finding out it would be the final season.  

Yes instead we are going to be treated with new love interests for Regina and Zelina that they are trying to force in there when they already have about 4 story lines to resolve, including introducing a coven of witches we won't have time to care about.  It is too bad they did not just scrap some of the story lines when they realized they were being cancelled, but instead it seems like they are just introducing new plots that will have to be started and resolved.  Although, it probably would not have made much of a difference.  They new much of last year that it was going to be end of a lot of the original cast and even talked about a "final battle" much of the season, but never did come up with an epic arc even when they had time to plan.  

This season started with more of a story line structure than last year, but but it started to get the feel that they were changing things and making some stuff up as they went a long.  I think they get distracted by new shiny possible story lines, before properly wrapping what they are currently writing.

[KingOfHearts]

4 minutes ago, CCTC said:

This season started with more of a story line structure than last year, but but it started to get the feel that they were changing things and making some stuff up as they went a long.  I think they get distracted by new shiny possible story lines, before properly wrapping what they are currently writing.

I preferred the more predictable story arcs we had in S3-S5 that were shorter and more formulaic. It's more satisfying when things make (some) narrative sense, even if it's basic and uninspired. These writers tend to write short, straight-forward, close-ended stories better.

Edited March 2, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

10 minutes ago, CCTC said:

but it started to get the feel that they were changing things and making some stuff up as they went a long.  

That feeling was definitely strong both this year and last year.  There seemed to be a weird shift 3-4 episodes into the season, and then further shifts every couple of episodes thereafter.  I wonder if they were really changing things or if that really is the extent of their "long"-range planning.  Last year, we were hypothesizing that maybe the network asked them to squeeze in Aladdin, and this year, we were hypothesizing that they realized Jacinda/Henry weren't cutting it as a core couple and Tremaine wasn't cutting it as a villain.  

[jhlipton]

On 2/27/2018 at 8:23 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Wish Cake is like regular cake, except we're not sure if it's real or not.

So you can have it and eat it???

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

So you can have it and eat it???

That’s exactly Regina’s Happy Ending.

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

That feeling was definitely strong both this year and last year.  There seemed to be a weird shift 3-4 episodes into the season, and then further shifts every couple of episodes thereafter.  I wonder if they were really changing things or if that really is the extent of their "long"-range planning.  Last year, we were hypothesizing that maybe the network asked them to squeeze in Aladdin, and this year, we were hypothesizing that they realized Jacinda/Henry weren't cutting it as a core couple and Tremaine wasn't cutting it as a villain.  

I think if the network were intervening, there would have been even more of a course correction, or even bigger changes would have happened. I think it comes down to the ADD style of writing. They have a bad case of what I call Shiny New Idea Syndrome. This happens a lot with novelists, where you always seem to get an exciting new idea when you're in the middle of a book -- in the part that's hard to write because you're beyond introducing the characters and situation but not yet at the exciting climax. This is the part when you really have to develop your plot and put everything in place to lead to the conclusion. I have learned over the years that the Shiny New Idea is almost never really that good. If you stop what you're working on to write it, it fizzles out pretty quickly, and then the next Shiny New Idea will hit when that book gets hard to write. But they're in a situation where their story format allows them to incorporate any Shiny New Idea into their storyline, so you can see Shiny New Idea Syndrome playing out. They usually do an okay job with introducing the characters and situation for an arc, and then when it comes to the nitty gritty of actually writing the plot, it gets hard, then another Shiny New Idea hits, and what they were doing falls by the wayside as they focus on the new thing, but then that gets hard or boring, and they run with the next Shiny New Idea. As a result, nothing ever really gets developed beyond that initial introduction, the resolution of the story is never all that satisfying, and there are a lot of plot holes and unanswered questions.

I doubt that their development of the Cinderella plot went much beyond "wouldn't it be cool if Cinderella rode a motorcycle? And she can be really spunky, a fighter!" So they were obviously bored with that story a few episodes in, and then they focused a bit more on Drizella, but then jumped from there to Gothel, and then they brought back Zelena. Zelena may have been the result of ratings panic because she doesn't fit very organically into the current story. They had to do some handwaving to explain (and they still haven't fully explained) how she came to be in the same place as everyone else to get caught up in the curse but why we hadn't seen her until so late.

[KingOfHearts]

@Camera One I'm bringing an extra box of tissues with me tonight. I don't think I can handle the thought of losing the kid with a heart of gold who taught us to believe in magic again... or Lucy. I'm going to be posting gifsets of Regina and Zelena standing around pensively all over my Tumblr.

Edited March 2, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I'm only here for potentially Silver Fox Hook. 

[ParadoxLost]

19 hours ago, Camera One said:

That feeling was definitely strong both this year and last year.  There seemed to be a weird shift 3-4 episodes into the season, and then further shifts every couple of episodes thereafter.  I wonder if they were really changing things or if that really is the extent of their "long"-range planning.  Last year, we were hypothesizing that maybe the network asked them to squeeze in Aladdin, and this year, we were hypothesizing that they realized Jacinda/Henry weren't cutting it as a core couple and Tremaine wasn't cutting it as a villain.  

I think they had to justify their existence in both season 5 and season 6 in a way they never did before.  As a result they had a "well" thought out idea for the next season fall/winter arc.  They made that into episode(s) to set up the next season  vs just a glimpse of Frozen, etc.  If they pitched the season, then they also would have had "notes" to incorporate.

Then they go though the summer and get bored with it or get a "better" idea or see something isn't working and use the first few episodes to wrap up that idea (but not really because that was the pitch so they just treat it like they do guest actors) and then move on to whatever shiny thing interested them over the summer.

I think that Aladdin was this idea they got between S5-S6 and it just felt forced because it was crammed between wrapping up Land of Untold stories and preoccupation with getting a S7 without retaining the entire cast.  Emma's final battle stuff didn't wait for the second half which it would have in a normal season.

[Camera One]

Another gem from Eddy: 

Quote

"We have a very, very vocal fan base, and so I think there's a lot of people that aren't tweeting that like what we did this year, and I think the episodes are really fun," Kitsis said. "I think the people that work on this show were very energized by doing something new. That being said, sometimes when you go to see a band you just want to hear their early songs so what I think Once has that is so strong is the cast, and the cast and the people that you've grown and loved for six years it's very hard to let go of. That's really what it comes down to, and so do I regret it? Absolutely not because I would regret it more if I was trying to string along this without Snow and Charming and being like 'We got a letter from Snow today! Let's go to the library!' For us, we at least got to finish that version the way we wanted to and I've loved a lot of the things we did this year."

Huh?

[october]

I just think of the fans I've seen online over the past months who were initially excited about S7 and the new characters, but who drifted away out of boredom, frustration or disgust before the season even hit the halfway mark. These were the people out defending S7 against the naysayers. But even they ultimately had to tap out because the show was alternating between being a boring slog or being actively offensive. So where do they figure in Eddy's elaborate conspiracy wall chart of people to pin the cancellation of the show onto?

[KAOS Agent]

Apparently, the "very, very vocal fan base" are the ones to pin the blame on because there's this large group of silent people who really like Season 7.  They are so silent and love it so much that they are secretly watching it. That's why they don't show up in the ratings. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by KAOS Agent

[ParadoxLost]

There was a lot of world salad in that quote.  I think they are saying the very, very vocal fan base" is tweeting that they don't like the show but its because they just can't let it go that the cast has changed.  But the writers are energized and the show is fun if the viewers could just get over the fact that the old cast is gone.  Oh, and mentioning what happened is Storybrooke while these dynamic characters are having adventures is boring, so get over it.

They do seem to be half admitting that the only people that like the show are the writers of the show.

Edited March 3, 2018 by ParadoxLost

[RolloTomasi]

Eddy seems oddly determined to set fire to the one thing that gives him any good will. Original cast? Boring! Storybrooke? Lame! Longtime fans? Get out of here, idiots! Genius at work!

Weird strategy, but I’m not a master storyteller so what do I know. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by RolloTomasi

[ParadoxLost]

33 minutes ago, RolloTomasi said:

Eddy seems oddly determined to set fire to the one thing that gives him any good will. Original cast? Boring! Storybrooke? Lame! Longtime fans? Get out of here, idiots! Genius at work!

Weird strategy, but I’m not a master storyteller so what do I know. 

I don't think he sees any need to maintain goodwill since the show is already cancelled.

Its one of those things.  The showrunners that engage the most in promotion and social media are the least able to cope with the criticism because they are usually seeking out praise and validation.  I wish they had the self awareness to dial it back when things got bad because it didn't help them improve the show.

[Rumsy4]

If Adam and Eddy had been smart, they would have bowed out with Season 6, and attempted the requel/reboot a couple of years down the line. But they wanted to retain original viewers--without realizing that the majority of them would be nostalgic over the original charatcers and old dynamics. If they had a any real self-awareness they would have known that it wasn't their hackneyed writing style that kept most of us watching for six seasons. It was the charatcers and the cast who brought them to life. They had destroyed most of the characters by the end of Season 6, and lost the good will of most fans. And now they're pissed at everyone who stopped watching, while simultaneously asking people to stop watching if they didn't like it. They wanted to have their Wish Cake and eat it too. :-p

[Free]

7 hours ago, october said:

I just think of the fans I've seen online over the past months who were initially excited about S7 and the new characters, but who drifted away out of boredom, frustration or disgust before the season even hit the halfway mark. These were the people out defending S7 against the naysayers. But even they ultimately had to tap out because the show was alternating between being a boring slog or being actively offensive. So where do they figure in Eddy's elaborate conspiracy wall chart of people to pin the cancellation of the show onto?

A&E ended up alienating pretty much everyone in the end, it's really baffling they thought any of this would appeal to anyone.

[ParadoxLost]

9 minutes ago, Free said:

A&E ended up alienating pretty much everyone in the end, it's really baffling they thought any of this would appeal to anyone.

They were kind of doomed from the outset.  There were a number scenarios that I would have been able to let the old show go and start over as if it was a new show.  But all of those relied on them putting on a show that didn't suffer the same storytelling inadequacies that got out of hand over the last few seasons.  That wasn't going to happen.  Its too bad because done right, traveling to different versions of fairytale lands could have worked even with an entirely new cast.  But it would have taken new showrunners that were interested in exploring the concept. 

[CCTC]

25 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

because done right, traveling to different versions of fairytale lands could have worked

They really did not even bother to flesh out that concept.  Original recipe Henry described how there was French version and Italian version of these stories, but nothing about this EF reflects a world any different than the original EF.  The actress playing Cinderella is a woman of color, but nothing else of that story reflects anything different heritage from the original tale.   The Princess and the Frog scenes has a little bit more of a flavor to it, but only because that is what is in the Disney movie, not because it is a different take on the story through another cultural lens.   There is nothing about this land that really shouts out this is different version of fairy tale land.  Same generic forest, castle type sets, costumes etc.

[superloislane]

58 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

There were a number scenarios that I would have been able to let the old show go and start over as if it was a new show.

I have always thought that if they had started an actual reboot of the show with a totally new cast but still in the world of Once Upon A Time, I might have actually given it a shot. I feel like they should have done what they did with Wonderland (although I admit I watched the first 2 episodes and didn't like it but it had nothing to do with the concept itself). That show had connections to Storybrooke and characters from the original show but they were new characters doing their own thing in their own story. If they had done that with this season 7 reboot, they could have still had cameos from the previous actors in the present or in flashbacks (or a recurring role for Regina because A&E couldn't possibly not have her there) to keep fans of the series happy and excited when they show up while keeping the timeline consistent and not really messing with the original show and characters.

[Camera One]

One of the core problems was that Henry was not a very interesting protagonist to build a show around.  He had nothing meaningful to deal with in the 7A premiere and he still doesn't.  There was no potential for growth.  Even if he had amazing chemistry with Jacinda, that was always going to be a huge weakness right from the start. 

Then, there were the returning characters.  Regina's arc is pretty much played out at this point.  They skipped the redemption progress and she's already redeemed so what else is there to do with her?  There's a reason why she was as bland as an extra serving drinks on a show.  All her conflict is external - protecting Henry, for example.  We've already seen her doing that for years, literally. 

Meanwhile, the Writers bent over backwards to include Rumple, but his role is so obviously shoehorned in.  He has very little relevance and has done very little of value for the entire season.  Ultimately, all his scenes are unnecessary and could have been cut without affecting the story, which makes him just a prop.  Imagine getting a major character to come back to use as a prop.

Whook is the only character with an actual character arc, and it's only because he's not Original Hook.  He's actually a new character played by the same actor.  And Rumple has actually become his prop by creating artificial obstacles for Whook/Rogers to deal with.

You can tell from the story "twists" that most of the thinking behind the arc was not about Adult Henry or even Cinderella (or Lucy, I totally forgot about her).  All of the writer brainstorming in the summer clearly revolved around the "surprise" identity of Lady Tremaine.  But even this was done extremely badly, because I don't think anyone can buy that Rapunzel became the super evil Lady Tremaine.  It didn't help that there was no nuance in the performance.  At least in Season 1, we could tell that Regina cared about Henry.  Are we supposed to believe Victoria cares about Lucy?  We can't feel sad that she didn't realize Drizella's love for her when she showed zero tenderness for 10 episodes.

As said above, A&E's undoing was wanting to have their cake and eat it too.  It hardly takes a Seer to realize that was going to happen.  This whole concept was a no-go from the start, and the ABC executives were idiots not to point that out since the Writers were so busy running after their shiny toys to notice.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

If they were going to leap 20+ years into the future they could have recast everyone, not just Henry. Get actors in their 50s to play Emma, Hook, Regina, and the Charmings. They could be recurring if the story focused on the next generation. There are plenty of ways they could have worked out a way to have Lana and Colin around, playing essentially different characters: what they did with Whook, an older version de-aged; from a reality where they got stuck in a time bubble; their past selves stuck in time travel; a reality where they went to Neverland when Regina didn't cast the curse.

But, yeah, I think a big part of the problem is that they seem to have overestimated Henry's appeal as a character. Basically, it's as if the next Star Trek show following Next Generation had been centered around the adventures of adult Captain Wesley Crusher. He's their Mary Sue self-insert, so they think he's fascinating, but that's the problem with a bad Mary Sue character -- the writers think of themselves as fascinating so they don't bother to actually make the character interesting to anyone else because they don't see that to everyone else, he's basically a cardboard cutout. And Henry isn't even as interesting as Wesley was. He has even less going on. The one potentially interesting thing about him, the Author role, seems to have gone by the wayside. We haven't seen him exploring the other fairy tale worlds to collect tales. We haven't seen him writing (other than maybe a couple of scenes with his laptop in HH). We didn't see him doing anything in the resistance. He mostly just stands around. His role in the show is as a magnet because he brings in other characters and gives them a reason to be there. That's a really weak position for the protagonist. Plus, his character got to be so annoying as a teen that it's hard to get behind the adult version, and he got off to a rough start in this season because his reason for bailing on his family was so very weak and unsympathetic. It's not like he had a duty to carry out. He put a girl he'd barely met -- and who in their brief acquaintance had attacked him, robbed him, and planned a murder -- ahead of being part of his own family.

[Camera One]

I don't think the next generation thing could work either.  An Older Regina, Emma, Hook, etc. would still need character arcs, and it would only make us miss the originals.  Personally, I couldn't care less about everyone's children.  Robyn totally grated in this latest episode, as did Gideon last year.

It's more than Henry's appeal.  There's nothing to work with and no room for development.  If they had to do Henry, then Wish Henry would have suffered so much trauma that his story could have been more interesting.  His grandparents were murdered, his mother disappeared into thin air, and he was forced to rule a kingdom at such a young age.  He would have been dealing with issues of rage and revenge, but torn because of the values he grew up with.  I didn't like the idea before, but I think people here suggested that Season 7 would have been about the Wish Realm characters, and in hindsight, that would have worked better, though it would still have been hard to squeeze more than one season out of that, which was A&E's goal.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

12 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I didn't like the idea before, but I think people here suggested that Season 7 would have been about the Wish Realm characters, and in hindsight, that would have worked better, though it would still have been hard to squeeze more than one season out of that, which was A&E's goal.

I don't know ... they could basically have done with the Wish Realm what they did with the first curse. They'd have had all the same characters we have in season 7. The Charmings, Belle, and Emma were all gone. There was a Wish Regina, a Wish Rumple, and a Wish Hook. It would just take a little magic to de-age Wish Regina and Wish Hook. Maybe cast a 20-something actor instead of a 30-something actor as Wish King Henry. Then there's a villain and a curse, and they all end up in our world. We have flashbacks to show how that came about, maybe Henry's epic love story with whatever fairytale princess. Or Whook's still a dad, and it was his daughter sent to our world as the Savior, and that's who Henry meets in our world, so we have the "real world" perspective that Emma had. Then various villains show up, or there's jumping through portals, just like in the original version, lather, rinse, repeat to create subsequent arcs.

[Camera One]

Yeah, they could use the same actor to play Wish Henry.  He could possibly be a good actor.  It's really hard to tell with what he has gotten to play thus far.

[superloislane]

21 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

But, yeah, I think a big part of the problem is that they seem to have overestimated Henry's appeal as a character.

They have always overestimated him. To this day they call Henry 'the heart of the show' and I just can't agree with that. Sure he was integral in the first season by bringing Emma to Storybrooke, making her believe, he explained things for the audience, and he kept Regina and Emma from killing each other but from season 2 on he became nothing more than a plot device. He made the characters come together, his kidnapping made the characters go to another land and so on.

I see some praise for the new actor playing Henry but at the same time, Henry didn't really have a personality so I doubt it was too difficult for the new actor to take over. He usually changed what he thought based on what the plot needed (which is obviously why the writers loved him) - Has a TLK with Emma but then says 'I should never have brought Emma here' (wait what?!), 'we need to use magic to change this book, no wait now we need to destroy magic because of reasons and because my dad said so one time', 'all of these stories really happened, no wait, the book was wrong about you Regina!', 'family is the most important thing, no wait, I'm going to dump my family and not speak to them for years so I can get written into another random story'. I don't think I could explain Henry's personality at all.

[Camera One]

Henry in Season 1 was completely different than the Henry he became by 2B.  After that, as said above, he was clearly a plot device.  Usually as a prop for Regina but sometimes to do stupid stuff that causes plot problems (eg. 5B finale, the premise of Season 7).

Edited March 3, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

I'm going to be "Weaver" is going to get his hands on the Resurrection Amulet and try to bring back Belle. He will flip flop one last time before he has another last minute change of heart and dies a sacrificial death. Probably saving Alice or something. 

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

I'm going to be "Weaver" is going to get his hands on the Resurrection Amulet and try to bring back Belle. He will flip flop one last time before he has another last minute change of heart and dies a sacrificial death. Probably saving Alice or something. 

We should all be stocking up on the tissues!

Where was this resurrection amulet when they needed it in the past!

Edited March 3, 2018 by Camera One