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You Have All the Clues You Need!: The Return & Its Many Clues

Penman61

By Penman61
in Twin Peaks [V]

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Jalyn

Jalyn

5 hours ago, jsbt said:

I think they need Laura (or some iteration of her) to foil the Bad Dale's plans, which I suspect involves invading the White Lodge and/or freeing the "Mother" creature glimpsed in earlier episodes which birthed BOB, etc. and which I think is occupying Sarah somehow. Its symbol/horned head can be glimpsed on Hawk's map, the Bad Dale's playing card which he showed to Darya ("this is what I want"), and I think on the jerky that so frightened Sarah in the store. I think it will come down to Dale and Dale and possibly Laura and Sarah. I still half-expect a big action-packed Woodsmen invasion of Twin Peaks a la the little town in Part 8 but that's probably way too conventional for Lynch, who knows.

Hmm. The image on the jerky is slightly similar, but I think it's just a stylized bull. The horns point up rather the down like the card image. Also, the beef jerky has the same image and Sarah was pointedly only concerned about the turkey jerky. I think the problem is that it was "smoked."

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jsbt

jsbt

Possible. But this stuff is rarely similar for no reason - they focused on the label which resembles the head. It could be about both, or I could be way off.

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Affogato

Affogato

8 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

I didn't think he'd go because he had no choice, more because he may want to go back, since he has nothing left in the real world and has spent decades in the Lodge. I guess it depends on whether they want a closed ending or want viewers to think Dale is still out there solving mysteries. 

I really think he stayed dougie for so long because something in him did don't want to wake up. We saw him waver at the edge for a long NGOs time. He has a son, coffee and cherry pie, after all. 

Also so there's that saliva bubble story, which would support that idea. 

However I can see him having no choice. 

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dwmckim

dwmckim

14 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

Now that Candie is on the way to Twin Peaks, surely that means the speculation about her playing an important role in the fight must be true? I guess she could be the reincarnation of Laura, as some think. Or maybe she's Linda? 

Remember, before everything went hokey with Cooper leaving the Black Lodge, Leland implored him to find Laura - a very early plotthread that's been forgotten about by most.  Given the little time we have left, it's a strong possibility "Laura" is someone Back-in-the-world Cooper's already met/is with.

 

(Though a part of me would kind of like it to be Tammy - there would be the parallelism of it being her turn as FBI Agent helping to solve other person's mystery - the fact she knew so much about tulpas - all the fans claiming she comes across as "alien"/"otherworldly", and the vision Gordon had of Laura before getting a visit from Tamara).

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PatternRec

PatternRec

On 8/28/2017 at 2:54 AM, jsbt said:

I think most town subplots are like snapshots of Twin Peaks this time around - little vignettes floating in and around the core storyline of Coop's journey back to himself and the town, which is why most of them are much more truncated than in the original series. They give us just enough with Ed, Norma, Nadine, Bobby, Shelly, etc. And for the most part I am okay with that approach here as I feel it suits the narrative, which is more about Coop and the larger mythological struggle leading back to Twin Peaks. It has steadily moved from backdrop and snapshots to a more active presence in the main story, mostly through the sheriff's department.

I agree with all of this, and I suspect that Lynch is also saying that life in Twin Peaks, weird Lodge stuff and all, is still a soap opera. We may never find out who all these characters actually are, but we've been watching for weeks as people talk about who's sleeping with whom, who likes whom, etc. We've seen fistfights break out over misunderstandings or actual infidelities. These beautiful little scenes are a much more tastefully done Invitation To Love. 

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Affogato

Affogato

23 hours ago, PatternRec said:

I agree with all of this, and I suspect that Lynch is also saying that life in Twin Peaks, weird Lodge stuff and all, is still a soap opera. We may never find out who all these characters actually are, but we've been watching for weeks as people talk about who's sleeping with whom, who likes whom, etc. We've seen fistfights break out over misunderstandings or actual infidelities. These beautiful little scenes are a much more tastefully done Invitation To Love. 

The bits of people's lives you overhear in a bar! But we met Richard Horne in the bar and saw more of him. Saw Shelly first as a glimpse in a bar. They are part of the real fabric of the town than what happens in a box. May or may not be meta. Probably means Audrey is not in a coma?

Im not sure I have all the clues I need. 

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clack

clack

My theory so far: 

1) Judy/Mother/the Experiment escapes from the Black Lodge into the world via an atomic bomb test. She hides out in Sarah Palmer's consciousness  ( Sarah is mostly unaware of her).

2) BOB at some point also escapes, and hides out in the mind of young Leland. Leland and Sarah marry.

3) The White Lodge incarnates the Golden Orb to be born as Laura. Laura's mission is be sacrificed so as to bring BOB out of hiding, and to bring Cooper on the case.

4) Cooper becomes trapped in the Red Room. Instead of BOB riding Cooper as a Dark Passenger (as he did with Leland), BOB takes over Cooper's body completely. It is only Cooper's consciousness that remains behind, in a trance-like state.

5) It is the White Lodge that constructs Dougie, as a placeholder for Cooper's consciousness to inhabit when, after 25 years, conditions become right to send BOB back to the Black Lodge.

6) When Cooper tries to rescue Laura, Judy whisks Laura 's spirit away into some alternate reality.

7) Cooper and Diane receive coordinates ( is this what Laura whispers to Cooper in the Red Room?) for where they are supposed to perform a ritual, in order to enter the alternate reality and rescue Laura's spirit. 430 miles from Twin Peaks, Cooper and Diane stop at a motel and perform sex magic.

8) Diane loses her memory of her former identity (as had Laura). Cooper remembers, but his new self is not quite who he was -- he's colder, more ruthless, less smart.

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Cindylou

Cindylou

The thing that is kinda sticking with me is, was the Laura that jumped off James' s bike really Laura?    when they went through that scene again, I had forgotten her telling James "Your Laura disappeared a long time ago".  Could she have been a tulpa or doopleganger?  Had Laura already entered the Lodge somehow?

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Affogato

Affogato

Okay, has anyone read the Dark Tower? (I didn't see the movie). I mean the whole series of books by Stephen King, which contain Stephen King as a character and are really about writing books.

Spoiler

At the end Roland  (the hero who is making the hero's journey) makes sure some favorite characters are comfortably situated and then goes back to climb the tower. The story is over. The next reinteration of the story is ahead of him.

I think this season of Twin Peaks is like that. Dale/Richard continues, a slightly different character in a slightly different world, part of a slightly different story, still a hero on his journey. Laura is still there, but different. Diane/Linda may play a smaller or larger part in this next story.  Dale has gone through the lodges and achieved immortality, at least an immortality of sorts.

Laura may, in fact, wake up as her mother is calling her and Bob may exit Leland when he dies in the future.

Dale still has a story to get through, forever, as the archetypical hero.

So, anyone for a rewatch?

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dwmckim

dwmckim

14 hours ago, Affogato said:

So, anyone for a rewatch?

Even before the finale aired, i was already planning to do a full season rewatch this week to be able to view the entire thing with benefit of hindsight (and also a last chance to view it before cancelling the Showtime extension on my Hulu account until the series gets a dvd release or something)  I have some theories about the finale percolating in my mind and having already started the rewatch, i'm already picking up things that help solidify them.

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

Personally, I wanted to see much much more of Hutch and Chantal.  Those characters had some meat to them.

Certainly enough in them, what with all the Wendy's they chowed down on.  They didn't just have meat - they had Commercial Spokesman potential to them.

Wendy's and finger sandwiches have become as essential parts of my TP viewing experience as cherry pie and doughnuts.

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Nashville

Nashville

Don't think I really buy the Audrey-is-Carrie line - but the similarities are striking, which leads me to wonder: might Audrey be trapped in a parallel reality similar to the one in which Carrie/Laura was imprisoned?

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Affogato

Affogato

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

Don't think I really buy the Audrey-is-Carrie line - but the similarities are striking, which leads me to wonder: might Audrey be trapped in a parallel reality similar to the one in which Carrie/Laura was imprisoned?

Every once in a while I think of the Roadhouse as being one of those Inn Between the Worlds sorts of places, so yeah. I think that could probably be a series. I don't know if it would be a really successful one but I could see it as being the center of the comic book continuation, because it would provide a portal to the different universes that was always open. Sort of a Cooper as Doctor thing. (Audrey as River Song, Laura as ...oh, nevermind)

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IDFfm0870

IDFfm0870

I rewatched the finale three episodes last night, with two friends of mine who saw it for the first time, and they don't follow the discussions on the net. Interestingly enough, both of them loved the ending immediately, and within five minutes, they were sure that all of it was Laura's dream.

I just read another article with all sorts of possible explanations. There two different dreamer scenarios were attributed to Coop and Laura.

The Laura-was-a-doppelgänger dicussion is both fascinating and weird stuff.

So, who is in for a this-is-all-someone's-dream rewatch, old series, movie and new series, but only Lynch episodes from the original series. Just me?

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Nashville

Nashville

How do you want to watch it?  I have:

  • One full set of the entire original TP series on VHS (my 2nd VHS set, actually - wore out my first set).
  • Two full series copies on DVD (each with different "bonus features").
  • A DVD copy of the original series pilot.
  • At least one DVD copy of FWWM.
  • A full original series copy on Blu-Ray, complete with "Missing Pieces".
  • Every episode of TP:TR still on my DVR.

... ya know, im beginning to think I have a very very serious problem....

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jenrising

jenrising

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

How do you want to watch it?  I have:

  • One full set of the entire original TP series on VHS (my 2nd VHS set, actually - wore out my first set).
  • Two full series copies on DVD (each with different "bonus features").
  • A DVD copy of the original series pilot.
  • At least one DVD copy of FWWM.
  • A full original series copy on Blu-Ray, complete with "Missing Pieces".
  • Every episode of TP:TR still on my DVR.

... ya know, im beginning to think I have a very very serious problem....

I also still have my VHS boxed set even though I don't have a way to play them anymore. And an oldish set of DVDs. And the missing pieces blue-rays. 

1 hour ago, IDFfm0870 said:

So, who is in for a this-is-all-someone's-dream rewatch, old series, movie and new series, but only Lynch episodes from the original series. Just me?

I'm totally in for a full (or almost full) rewatch. 

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Affogato

Affogato

1 hour ago, jenrising said:

I also still have my VHS boxed set even though I don't have a way to play them anymore. And an oldish set of DVDs. And the missing pieces blue-rays. 

I'm totally in for a full (or almost full) rewatch. 

I'd do it  not necessarily committing to dream scenario  

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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

How do you want to watch it?  I have:

  • One full set of the entire original TP series on VHS (my 2nd VHS set, actually - wore out my first set).
  • Two full series copies on DVD (each with different "bonus features").
  • A DVD copy of the original series pilot.
  • At least one DVD copy of FWWM.
  • A full original series copy on Blu-Ray, complete with "Missing Pieces".
  • Every episode of TP:TR still on my DVR.

... ya know, im beginning to think I have a very very serious problem....

If it ever comes back into print I've heard people say that "My Life My Tapes" is also a big look into Dale's character and who he was in those last episodes (Lynch hasn't said that though). I would link to the version online as the book is long out of print, but we probably shouldn't. 

Is it true that Lynch asked Eric da Rae on this season and he declined? I wonder what role de Rae would have had. I can't see Shelly ever going back to him so he wouldn't have had Red's role. Maybe the spec about Becky killing Leo was true? 

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kokapetl

kokapetl

Does anyone else think that nearly all of the Las Vegas characters were manufactured people? Vegas is itself rather unnatural and inauthentic, it's full of manufactured replicas (of varying quality) of other locations. Dougie seemed to be surrounded by people programmed to always overlook and excuse his stupidity, no matter how severe it became. 

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IDFfm0870

IDFfm0870

On 8.9.2017 at 10:30 PM, Nashville said:

How do you want to watch it?

I got the original series and FWWM on DVD, and the Missing Pieces BD's.

I enjoy watching the BD's, a friend of mine who watched the entire series for the very first time prefers the original quality, and he thinks about making a copy of TPTR to get the "original" (DVD) quality.

I would love to have FWWM and TPTR with the original "colouring" style of the the original series, but in BD quality.

So for now, I will probably watch the BD's.

On 8.9.2017 at 11:35 PM, jenrising said:

I also still have my VHS boxed set even though I don't have a way to play them anymore. And an oldish set of DVDs. And the missing pieces blue-rays. 

I'm totally in for a full (or almost full) rewatch. 

Cool. So how do we do that? Maybe an episode or two every Sunday night?

Should we create an extra topic thread here for it?

On 9.9.2017 at 1:01 AM, Affogato said:

I'd do it  not necessarily committing to dream scenario  

Sure, the dream scenario is just one possible way to look at it. Wasn't meant to be binding to the idea of doing a rewatch.

Personally, I am just not really interested in watching non-Lynch episodes. But of course we could still include those episodes.

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Affogato

Affogato

8 hours ago, IDFfm0870 said:

I got the original series and FWWM on DVD, and the Missing Pieces BD's.

I enjoy watching the BD's, a friend of mine who watched the entire series for the very first time prefers the original quality, and he thinks about making a copy of TPTR to get the "original" (DVD) quality.

I would love to have FWWM and TPTR with the original "colouring" style of the the original series, but in BD quality.

So for now, I will probably watch the BD's.

Cool. So how do we do that? Maybe an episode or two every Sunday night?

Should we create an extra topic thread here for it?

Sure, the dream scenario is just one possible way to look at it. Wasn't meant to be binding to the idea of doing a rewatch.

Personally, I am just not really interested in watching non-Lynch episodes. But of course we could still include those episodes.

Extra Topic thread, yes.

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PatternRec

PatternRec

(edited)

I would be interested in a re-watch of the old with a new thread to discuss. 

Also, are there enough people interested in discussing the whole of season three to merit a diff thread or do we just keep using this one? *

 

* edit: I want to continue discussing season 3 to help me keep making theories about what happened overall; also I will fight anyone who still tries to claim Audrey is in a coma lol 

Edited by PatternRec
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Affogato

Affogato

5 hours ago, PatternRec said:

I would be interested in a re-watch of the old with a new thread to discuss. 

Also, are there enough people interested in discussing the whole of season three to merit a diff thread or do we just keep using this one? *

 

* edit: I want to continue discussing season 3 to help me keep making theories about what happened overall; also I will fight anyone who still tries to claim Audrey is in a coma lol 

If it is any help I think Audrey is now awake, or aware, depending on what state she was in before. Or was before the town was rewritten, so who knows, now? It may not be relevant :-

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PatternRec

PatternRec

On 9/14/2017 at 4:56 PM, Affogato said:

If it is any help I think Audrey is now awake, or aware, depending on what state she was in before. Or was before the town was rewritten, so who knows, now? It may not be relevant :-

I'll accept any and all allies. My resistance to the idea that Audrey had been in a coma the whole time comes from the place inside that makes me cringe when people talk about "who the dreamer is" as if it's a person in the show literally dreaming what we saw. It's too literal and easy a route and it doesn't seem like a place Lynch would go. 

Besides that there are too many clues that Audrey's fate was different than 25 year coma. 1. where we saw Audrey at the end of e16 did *not* look like a hospital, people who think that are on crack; 2. Lynch often uses people with physical deformities to play Lodge beings like the actor who played Charlie, also Charlie talked like he knew something more was going on with Audrey, he did *not* talk to her like a therapist, as above the people who thought this are on crack (or have never been to therapy); 3. Ben says Richard never had much of a father - this one is the most circumstantial, but we know DoppelCoop disappeared after the fire at Majors Briggs' installation in the mountains, and with Ben not mentioning the absence of a mother points to Audrey having been there for Richard at least *part* of his childhood. 

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)

I was told by someone who would have reason to know flat-out after 16 that Audrey had been in a coma. But they may have been just assuming themselves based on limited info. They also thought more was filmed with her, but we both got surprised that it ended there. Either they didn't film more and the person I know got curved - which was not likely - or (more likely IMO) it was filmed and cut for reasons known only to Lynch. My personal suspicion is he has decided to hold the Audrey storyline over for when he goes back for more.

Sabrina Sutherland confirmed that Judy's original name is pronounced "Jowday".

Edited by jsbt
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Nashville

Nashville

3 minutes ago, PatternRec said:

3. Ben says Richard never had much of a father - this one is the most circumstantial, but we know DoppelCoop disappeared after the fire at Majors Briggs' installation in the mountains, and with Ben not mentioning the absence of a mother points to Audrey having been there for Richard at least *part* of his childhood. 

But EC would not be an automatic assumption for the father; if anybody, the most likely (although not correct) assumption would seem to be John Justice Wheeler (Billy Zane's character), with whom Audrey spent some "quality time" before he jetted off in his plane to Brazil or wherever.

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Affogato

Affogato

On 9/16/2017 at 2:47 AM, jsbt said:

I was told by someone who would have reason to know flat-out after 16 that Audrey had been in a coma. But they may have been just assuming themselves based on limited info. They also thought more was filmed with her, but we both got surprised that it ended there. Either they didn't film more and the person I know got curved - which was not likely - or (more likely IMO) it was filmed and cut for reasons known only to Lynch. My personal suspicion is he has decided to hold the Audrey storyline over for when he goes back for more.

Sabrina Sutherland confirmed that Judy's original name is pronounced "Jowday".

Sherilyn Fenn said that she filmed a lot more than was shown in the show, but I didn't read where she specified what was filmed.

On 9/16/2017 at 2:51 AM, Nashville said:

But EC would not be an automatic assumption for the father; if anybody, the most likely (although not correct) assumption would seem to be John Justice Wheeler (Billy Zane's character), with whom Audrey spent some "quality time" before he jetted off in his plane to Brazil or wherever.

Honestly Richard looks more like Wheeler than Cooper, although not a whole lot like either of them.

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