Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Happy Harpy]

24 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

My best current guess?

Guaranteed to die: Beric, the Mountain, Qyburn, Jaime, Euron, Cersei, Melisandre, Varys, Tormund (I'm guessing Brienne survives and that D&D aren't going to want to answer questions from fans about whether or not Tormund and Brienne ever get together), the NK

Likely doomed: Pod, Grey Worm, Jorah, Theon (his nice moment with Jon in S7 seemed like a death flag to me), Alys Karstark, Ned Umber, Dolorous Edd

Could go either way: Sansa, the Hound, Missandei, Bronn, Yara

Probably safe: Tyrion, Brienne, Lyanna Mormont, Davos

Safe as houses: Jon, Dany, Sam, Gilly, Little Sam, Bran, Arya

As good a guess as it comes, if you ask me :) I had the feeling that Jorah and Sam would end as Jeor and Aemon, TNG, in whatever will replace the Night's Watch. Tormund is the only Wildling with a name, Theon and Jaime were both maimed and on the way to redemption so one might make it to avoid redundancy. I also think that one secondary villain will survive, I'd bet on Qyburn if so. Tyrion is as safe as the other original five imo.

Gendry is on my "I want him to be safe" line. Pure wishful thinking, not a guess, LOL.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[GrailKing]

A lot of people are asking about the building above the cars and buses, near center.

[Eyes High]

29 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

As good a guess as it comes, if you ask me :) I had the feeling that Jorah and Sam would end as Jeor and Aemon, TNG, in whatever will replace the Night's Watch. 

Gendry is on my "I want him to be safe" line. Pure wishful thinking, not a guess, LOL.

I figured that Sam would be the next warden of the south, based on S7 events.

I completely forgot about Gendry! Given that he’s a composite of Book Gendry and Book Edric, he could well end up with Book Edric’s endgame, assuming GRRM told them what it was.

I do think it’s safe to say that whatever happens to Gendry, if he doesn’t end up with Arya in the books, he won’t in the show.

[Sunshinegal]

Just now, Eyes High said:

I figured that Sam would be the next warden of the south, based on S7 events.

I completely forgot about Gendry! Given that he’s a composite of Book Gendry and Book Edric, he could well end up with Book Edric’s endgame, assuming GRRM told them what it was.

I do think it’s safe to say that whatever happens to Gendry, if he doesn’t end up with Arya in the books, he won’t in the show.

Considering that Edric was so easily adapted out of the show, and that he is in Essos right now, I'm fairly certain that Edric will die in the books.  It's a guess on my part though.

You are right, if Gendry doesn't end up with Arya in the books, she won't end up with him on the show.  Arya is a very important character and I feel that the writers and producers already knew what her endgame would be from the beginning.

I agree with most of your other predictions except I feel that Sansa will survive and have higher hopes for Jaime's survival (I think he can go either way) and feel that Tyrion is more doomed.

[Kyanight]

On 9/2/2017 at 1:50 AM, ShellsandCheese said:

Also it took me five books, seven television seasons, and 20 years to realize that this whole thing is all about Jon. All.About.Jon. I assumed it was Dany and Jon but nope, Jon is fire and ice. In the end no matter what happens, he’ll be the undisputed hero of the story. 

 

It seens to me a a lot of stuff is coming full circle. I predict Cersei will either die a gruesome death or she will be the one to die after giving birth to a dwarf, just like the brother she hates. Jamie will probably die too and the only surviving Lannisters will be Tyrion the dwarf and his nephew the dwarf; that would be very poetic considering Tywin and Cersei’s treatment of Tyrion his whole life. 

Dany/Jon seem to be reliving Lyanna/Rhaegar with a gender reversal, but this time instead of a Stark - Targaryen romance sparking war and destruction, it will help save Westeros and usher in some new more “modern” type era. 

Death toll is going to be through the roof next year / 2019 but of the main / semi-main characters, I hope Ned’s remaining children live, along with Drogon, Ghost, Edd, Jon/Dany, Brienne, Davos, GW/Messendei, Brienne, Sam and co., Pod, Yara, Lyanna Mormont, and Tormund. 

LOVED this post!    George insists that there are NO heroes in GOT and he says it's definitely NOT Jon.    Too bad.  I think it's rather fitting that the bastard who was treated second class by many (even some of his men on the wall and especially by Catelyn Stark - and he turned out to be her nephew, not her hubby's love child) would turn out to save them all.   I also heard that almost everyone is due to be killed off.  I guess we shall see.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Safe as houses: Jon, Dany, Sam, Gilly, Little Sam, Bran, Arya

I expect either Jon or Dany is safe, but definitely NOT both. GRRM is not a happily-ever-after kind of guy. Since Jon is already living on gods-granted borrowed time, I expect him to bite it once he's no longer useful.

[Sunshinegal]

Just now, screamin said:

I expect either Jon or Dany is safe, but definitely NOT both. GRRM is not a happily-ever-after kind of guy. Since Jon is already living on gods-granted borrowed time, I expect him to bite it once he's no longer useful.

I go back and forth with Jon and Dany.  Either both die or both live or one of them dies and I switch on which one lives.  The only certainty that I have is that their child would live.  That is just my guess. 

[Edith]

Some speculation for next season base in season 7 outline:

 

From episode 6: Not only Jon rides Viserion, but it's implied in the Jon and Dany's conversation that only Drogon survives wight hunt. 

 

So I guess is not out of question that Jon could ride Rhaegal next season before the dragon dies? 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Edith

[screamin]

2 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

I go back and forth with Jon and Dany.  Either both die or both live or one of them dies and I switch on which one lives.  The only certainty that I have is that their child would live.  That is just my guess. 

In that case, Dany is the more likely survivor, since once Jon knocks her up, he's kind of superfluous, while Dany has to stay alive for nine more months (or at least seven for a healthy preemie). The Wall is falling now, the series end is going to come fast and not allow time for a proper gestation, which is why I consider Jon is the likely goner.

[Sunshinegal]

41 minutes ago, screamin said:

In that case, Dany is the more likely survivor, since once Jon knocks her up, he's kind of superfluous, while Dany has to stay alive for nine more months (or at least seven for a healthy preemie). The Wall is falling now, the series end is going to come fast and not allow time for a proper gestation, which is why I consider Jon is the likely goner.

Or Dany can die in chilbirth.  I have no clue what Jon and dany fate would be.  Any scenario is likely.  

What I think might happen if GRMM goes more bitter than sweet is that Jon dies in battle and dany dies in childbirth.   If GRMM goes more sweet than bitter both will live.

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, screamin said:

I expect either Jon or Dany is safe, but definitely NOT both. GRRM is not a happily-ever-after kind of guy.

GRRM also promised an ending as bittersweet as it is happy. There's no universe in which two of the five main characters falling in love and being cruelly separated by death at the eleventh hour can be considered happy in any sense, especially if GRRM telling Alan Taylor that the whole point of the series is Jon and Dany can be taken at face value.

The outline also indicates that Jon and Dany--along with Bran, Tyrion, and Arya--are safe, assuming GRRM's statements that he has never changed his mind about the ending can be taken at face value.

 

1 hour ago, Sunshinegal said:

What I think might happen if GRMM goes more bitter than sweet is that Jon dies in battle and dany dies in childbirth.  

Both Jon and Dany falling in love and shortly thereafter dying isn't "bittersweet," in my opinion.

 

Quote

Since Jon is already living on gods-granted borrowed time, I expect him to bite it once he's no longer useful.

I once thought so, too, but these days, I'm inclined to think that Jon survives. The outline points to Jon's survival, and there are potential hints sprinkled throughout the books that Jon (once resurrected, anyway) is going to outlive all of his siblings (even demigod Bran). Assuming Jon and Dany survive and take the throne, you might even have a genderswapped Aragorn/Arwen scenario where Jon could potentially long outlive Dany. (Arwen died of a broken heart and solved that particular problem, though.)

And speaking of Bran, Metro UK reports that Betway has suspended betting on who will end up on the Iron Throne in S8 because of a sudden flurry of bets on Bran, prompting suspicions of a leak. Hmmm.

The show writers sure haven't done much to set up Bran as endgame king, and of course there's his lack of any sort of claim to consider, but why not? It would be surprising, at least.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Eyes High

[Edith]

On the possibility of the GC attacking Winterfell, user HouseMonty from the freefolk quote this from the preliminary outline:

“Sansa warns Jon not to underestimate Cersei. If she knows the Northern army is tied up battling by the Wall, she’ll use that to her advantage. Just because the Lannisters have never ranged this far north before doesn’t mean Cersei won’t. After all, nobody blew up the Sept before Cersei did it. She’s dangerous. She means to conquer all of Westeros. And you’re a fool if you don’t believe that”. 

“Her position on the Northern threat has evolved, in sync with her relationship to Jon. But they can’t march north and leave the Riverlands, the Reach and the North exposed to Lannister aggression".

“the Starks are about to send 20,000 men north.”

[Happy Harpy]

10 hours ago, Eyes High said:

And speaking of Bran, Metro UK reports that Betway has suspended betting on who will end up on the Iron Throne in S8 because of a sudden flurry of bets on Bran, prompting suspicions of a leak. Hmmm.

The show writers sure haven't done much to set up Bran as endgame king, and of course there's his lack of any sort of claim to consider, but why not? It would be surprising, at least.

Oh, that's an interesting reaction. Of course, it might be a preemptive move, decided without any inside knowledge.

And after all, Bran is the first character that GRRM imagined or visualized (with/in the deserter's decapitation scene) unless my memory plays tricks on me. Considering how parallel he's been to the main action (war/politics) and how he skipped a season, it would definitely be a surprising ending. After Bran the Builder, Bran the Re-builder? If true, it wouldn't mean that Jon or Dany die, but it would fit my pet theory that they leave with the dragon(s), so I kind of like the idea. 

I've wondered if Bran was truly unfeeling, or just pretending to be out of guilt, or was numbed at first and is slowly regaining a personality.  

I'm also really impatient to see when Jon is going to ride a dragon (I'll cry foul if he doesn't). Could it be as early as episode 2? I can imagine Davos: "Yes you're a Targaryen, yes it's completely fookin' mad, now go sit on that dragon's back and brood later, the dead are coming."

[screamin]

10 hours ago, Eyes High said:

GRRM also promised an ending as bittersweet as it is happy. There's no universe in which two of the five main characters falling in love and being cruelly separated by death at the eleventh hour can be considered happy in any sense, especially if GRRM telling Alan Taylor that the whole point of the series is Jon and Dany can be taken at face value.

 

 

That's a matter of subjective opinion. The prince and princess (in this case, king and queen) getting married and having a child who all live well through the end of the story is the classic happily-ever-after ending. It would seem to me downright weird that all other survivors get 'bittersweet' at best endings while Jon, Dany and future child are untouched by bitterness. To me, Jon or Dany (probably Dany) losing their true love but having the child of that love to raise and cherish, and knowing their sacrifice saved the world for their child and  ALL children, is the appropriately bittersweet ending that would go better with the rest of their universe.

Edited March 14, 2018 by screamin

[anamika]

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/84djfa/new_s8_set_leak/

Leaker mentions that Jon steps back and stabs Dany with Longclaw making her Nissa Nissa.

This would be a terrible ending for Dany but possible. I had a feeling that Arya was going to be Jon's NN in the books given how much he loves her. But considering that GRRM switched Dany and Arya in Jon's love story, Dany could very well be NN.

I was hoping the show had got rid of the terrible NN plot which is basically the fridging of an important female character for a male character's story. If this leak is true, then that's disappointing.

If there was going to be a NN plot, I would rather NN be Jon and Arya/Dany can be AA with Needle as lightbringer. Would at least be a trope inversion. Jon's story has been about the WW and he could have died sacrificing himself to take them down.

Edited March 14, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

21 minutes ago, anamika said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/84djfa/new_s8_set_leak/

Leaker mentions that Jon steps back and stabs Dany with Longclaw making her Nissa Nissa.

This would be a terrible ending for Dany but possible. I had a feeling that Arya was going to be Jon's NN in the books given how much he loves her. But considering that GRRM switched Dany and Arya in Jon's love story, Dany could very well be NN.

I was hoping the show had got rid of the terrible NN plot which is basically the fridging of an important female character for a male character's story. If this leak is true, then that's disappointing.

If there was going to be a NN plot, I would rather NN be Jon and Arya/Dany can be AA with Needle as lightbringer. Would at least be a trope inversion. Jon's story has been about the WW and he could have died sacrificing himself to take them down.

 

Damn, you beat me to it. : ) TT say's it's exclusive.  

Edited March 14, 2018 by GrailKing

[anamika]

Show only watchers are going to be like, Nissa Nissa? Wut...?

Watch as Bran does exposition for like 15 minutes each episode as D&D try to cram in GRRM's story elements into the last season to align with his ending.

[Sunshinegal]

26 minutes ago, anamika said:

Show only watchers are going to be like, Nissa Nissa? Wut...?

Watch as Bran does exposition for like 15 minutes each episode as D&D try to cram in GRRM's story elements into the last season to align with his ending.

If that happens it would be very funny.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Sunshinegal

[screamin]

58 minutes ago, anamika said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/84djfa/new_s8_set_leak/

Leaker mentions that Jon steps back and stabs Dany with Longclaw making her Nissa Nissa.

This would be a terrible ending for Dany but possible. I had a feeling that Arya was going to be Jon's NN in the books given how much he loves her. But considering that GRRM switched Dany and Arya in Jon's love story, Dany could very well be NN.

I was hoping the show had got rid of the terrible NN plot which is basically the fridging of an important female character for a male character's story. If this leak is true, then that's disappointing.

If there was going to be a NN plot, I would rather NN be Jon and Arya/Dany can be AA with Needle as lightbringer. Would at least be a trope inversion. Jon's story has been about the WW and he could have died sacrificing himself to take them down.

Grr. I agree that it would be much better for Jon to be taken down by Dany, since the books even explicitly open the possibility by pointing out that the 'Prince' that was promised could equally be translated as 'princess'. And I don't think it's in character for Jon to sacrifice Dany if there were ANY possibility at all that the NK could be defeated if he could offer himself as a sacrifice instead.

And in fact, I'm still hoping this is deliberate misleading to conceal the REAL plot twist, so there.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

The prince and princess (in this case, king and queen) getting married and having a child who all live well through the end of the story is the classic happily-ever-after ending.

 

And yet, it's the ending Arwen and Aragorn got in an ending GRRM not only described as bittersweet but claims to have used as his standard for what he considers bittersweet.

 

Quote

 It would seem to me downright weird that all other survivors get 'bittersweet' at best endings while Jon, Dany and future child are untouched by bitterness.

How would Jon, Dany and future child be "untouched by bitterness"? Jon was murdered by his own men. Dany was sold into marriage, raped on the regular, lost her first kid, and lost at least one of her dragon children (and will likely lose more). Even if they take the throne and Westeros remains united, they'll be inheriting a wartorn kingdom in shambles. And on top of all that, they'll have to live with the possibility that their kid is going to go insane. That sounds plenty bittersweet to me.

If you think that Jon and Dany surviving and having a kid is a "classic happily ever after ending," that seems like a negation of everything Jon and Dany have gone through and which continues to affect them profoundly. PTSD zombie ending up with a rape survivor/multiply bereaved mother doesn't exactly scream "Disney."

Edited March 14, 2018 by Eyes High

[Edith]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/84djfa/new_s8_set_leak/

Leaker mentions that Jon steps back and stabs Dany with Longclaw making her Nissa Nissa.

This would be a terrible ending for Dany but possible. I had a feeling that Arya was going to be Jon's NN in the books given how much he loves her. But considering that GRRM switched Dany and Arya in Jon's love story, Dany could very well be NN.

I was hoping the show had got rid of the terrible NN plot which is basically the fridging of an important female character for a male character's story. If this leak is true, then that's disappointing.

If there was going to be a NN plot, I would rather NN be Jon and Arya/Dany can be AA with Needle as lightbringer. Would at least be a trope inversion. Jon's story has been about the WW and he could have died sacrificing himself to take them down.

 

WTFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!! I can't believe this! 

In the outline for season 7, Melisandre says that Ice and Fire need to create something, before getting interrupted by Tyrion. 

It was also mentioned at least three times last season, Dany getting shot with an arrow and her good heart.

Maybe they need to create lightbringer? Beric is still alive, he could give the kiss of live to Dany?

Also this could be the third wtf moment D&D talked about. The first two were sacrifices.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Edith

[screamin]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

And yet, it's the ending Arwen and Aragorn got in an ending GRRM not only described as bittersweet but claims to have used as his standard for what he considers bittersweet.

 

 

True. Yet GRRM was inspired to write a work with far more explicit pain (not to mention voluminous floods of gore and whatnot) than Tolkien EVER dreamed of penning. To me, giving Jon and Dany the Arwen-and-Aragorn ending, while pretty much everyone else either dies or lives on with irreparable losses, would clash with everything else in his story the way he's written it. Giving them a Tolkien end in a GRRM book would be just too incongruous with the rest of it, IMO...he has ALWAYS written the bitter far more bitter than Tolkien ever did.

Quote

If you think that Jon and Dany surviving and having a kid is a "classic happily ever after ending," that seems like a negation of everything Jon and Dany have gone through and which continues to affect them profoundly. PTSD zombie ending up with a rape survivor/multiply bereaved mother doesn't exactly scream "Disney."

Not Disney - but if you look at the original fairy tales, Grimm sanitized them a WHOLE lot. IIRC, Sleeping Beauty's original version had her happy ending by marrying the guy who raped and abandoned her, pregnant, just as an example. Donkeyskin ran away from her FATHER who wanted to force her into marriage. The 'happily ever after' of the old tales did not preclude previous trauma.

Edited March 14, 2018 by screamin

[ElizaD]

22 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

How would Jon, Dany and future child be "untouched by bitterness"? Jon was murdered by his own men. Dany was sold into marriage, raped on the regular, lost her first kid, and lost at least one of her dragon children (and will likely lose more). Even if they take the throne and Westeros remains united, they'll be inheriting a wartorn kingdom in shambles. And on top of all that, they'll have to live with the possibility that their kid is going to go insane. That sounds plenty bittersweet to me.

If you think that Jon and Dany surviving and having a kid is a "classic happily ever after ending," that seems like a negation of everything Jon and Dany have gone through and which continues to affect them profoundly. PTSD zombie ending up with a rape survivor/multiply bereaved mother doesn't exactly scream "Disney."

Yeah, even if the Starks/Dany/Tyrion all survived, I would still consider the ending incredibly bittersweet since they've had to endure a long list of horrible things that will never truly leave them. I've always found it very dismissive of the supposed realism of GRRM's writing to pretend that trauma just poofs away if the rape victim/child soldier/backstabbed zombie ends up in a position of power and thus has secured a "happy ending" that's just not bittersweet enough if they still have a couple of people left in the world that they're capable of loving.

Unlike the reported and IMO very unlikely multiple endings, that set photo is something  I can see the show leaking just to screw with the fans since a fake Nissa Nissa moment doesn't require much extra work. But if the series' biggest female character does get fridged for the sake of the lead dude's heroic triumph, it'll be yet another thing that'll make it obvious how much time has passed since AGOT was published.

[GrailKing]

Emilia must be chilled, wearing her cloak on her front ( or hiding a baby bump ).

Maybe she's telling Jon she's pregnant.

Edited March 14, 2018 by GrailKing

[screamin]

23 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

Yeah, even if the Starks/Dany/Tyrion all survived, I would still consider the ending incredibly bittersweet since they've had to endure a long list of horrible things that will never truly leave them. I've always found it very dismissive of the supposed realism of GRRM's writing to pretend that trauma just poofs away if the rape victim/child soldier/backstabbed zombie ends up in a position of power and thus has secured a "happy ending" that's just not bittersweet enough if they still have a couple of people left in the world that they're capable of loving.

 

Well, even if Jon or Dany lose their partner, if they keep their child and at least SOME of their family/friends survive, they WILL have a couple of people in the world they're capable of loving. Not all love is confined to the strict nucleus of couple + child.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

To me, giving Jon and Dany the Arwen-and-Aragorn ending, while pretty much everyone else either dies or lives on with irreparable losses

That's my point, though: Jon and Dany would be "living on with irreparable losses" as well. Jon lost Ned, Robb and Rickon (in the show) just as much as Bran, Arya and Sansa did. And Dany having a miracle baby won't negate her loss of Rhaego or her dragon(s). 

GRRM once described LOTR's bittersweet ending as Frodo is never whole again, goes away to the Undying Lands "and the other people live their lives." 

 

Quote

Giving them a Tolkien end in a GRRM book would be just too incongruous with the rest of it,

Personally, I think GRRM's reputation for doom and gloom is overblown. GRRM's last full novel before the ASOIAF books, The Armageddon Rag--which has the word armageddon in the title--ended with the main characters having a party. 

With particular reference to Jon and Dany, in the outline, GRRM admits that while he's deliberately trying to create the impression that no character is safe, five characters in fact are. All the death and destruction visited on everyone who doesn't qualify as one of the top five is pretty much a big smokecreen.

 

59 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

Yeah, even if the Starks/Dany/Tyrion all survived, I would still consider the ending incredibly bittersweet since they've had to endure a long list of horrible things that will never truly leave them.

I agree. The Starks, Dany and Tyrion have been through so much that even if they get everything they want and don't lose anyone else from here on in, it would still be bittersweet.

 

Quote

But if the series' biggest female character does get fridged for the sake of the lead dude's heroic triumph, it'll be yet another thing that'll make it obvious how much time has passed since AGOT was published.

It's kind of weird to talk about fiction set in a pseudomedieval period as being "dated" by the passage of time, but yes, absolutely.

GRRM seems to get a pass for things he wrote 10-20 years ago that if written fresh today by a young upstart would be dismissed as racist, misogynist torture porn. I read The Traitor Baru Cormorant not long ago, and while I wouldn't say it's the best thing ever written, I was struck by how fresh and innovative it feels compared to ASOIAF. People probably felt the same about AGOT when it came out 20 years ago.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

That's my point, though: Jon and Dany would be "living on with irreparable losses" as well. Jon lost Ned, Robb and Rickon (in the show) just as much as Bran, Arya and Sansa did. And Dany having a miracle baby won't negate her loss of Rhaego or her dragon(s). 

GRRM once described LOTR's bittersweet ending as Frodo is never whole again, goes away to the Undying Lands "and the other people live their lives." 

 

Personally, I think GRRM's reputation for doom and gloom is overblown. GRRM's last full novel before the ASOIAF books, The Armageddon Rag--which has the word armageddon in the title--ended with the main characters having a party. 

With particular reference to Jon and Dany, in the outline, GRRM admits that while he's deliberately trying to create the impression that no character is safe, five characters in fact are. All the death and destruction visited on everyone who doesn't qualify as one of the top five is pretty much a big smokecreen.

 

I agree. The Starks, Dany and Tyrion have been through so much that even if they get everything they want and don't lose anyone else from here on in, it would still be bittersweet.

 

It's kind of weird to talk about fiction set in a pseudomedieval period as being "dated" by the passage of time, but yes, absolutely.

GRRM seems to get a pass for things he wrote 10-20 years ago that if written fresh today by a young upstart would be dismissed as racist, misogynist torture porn. I read The Traitor Baru Cormorant not long ago, and while I wouldn't say it's the best thing ever written, I was struck by how fresh and innovative it feels compared to ASOIAF. People probably felt the same about AGOT when it came out 20 years ago.

The new leak is now being pointed to her being Nissa Nissa'd.

They even have markers set up for Jon to take a step back from.

[GrailKing]

19 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

The new leak is now being pointed to her being Nissa Nissa'd.

They even have markers set up for Jon to take a step back from.

Maybe he steps back from shock, he's a daddy.

[Edith]

39 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

The new leak is now being pointed to her being Nissa Nissa'd.

They even have markers set up for Jon to take a step back from.

If this leak is true, I find interesting that Jon could kill the NK(Ice) and Dany(fire). Maybe that's the importance of his parentage. 

[WindyNights]

29 minutes ago, Edith said:

If this leak is true, I find interesting that Jon could kill the NK(Ice) and Dany(fire). Maybe that's the importance of his parentage. 

He'd be killing Dragons then who GRRM says are the counterparts to the WW.

 

Daenerys' ice counterpart isn't the NK, its Bran. 

[bubble sparkly]

I am extremely skeptical that after months of relative nothing re filming pictures and leaks, someone somehow manages to have info on arguably the biggest WTF twist for the show. And they manage one blurry pic of DJ talking but can’t snap another when the stabbing happens? Suuuurrree.

The pic might be real but I think the Nissa Nissa stuff is bullshit.

[GraceK]

1 minute ago, bubble sparkly said:

I am extremely skeptical that after months of relative nothing re filming pictures and leaks, someone somehow manages to have info on arguably the biggest WTF twist for the show. And they manage one blurry pic of DJ talking but can’t snap another when the stabbing happens? Suuuurrree.

The pic might be real but I think the Nissa Nissa stuff is bullshit.

I agree with this. I don’t see Nissa Nissa happening. They have made no mention of it on the show and it would just be baffling for most viewers. I also find it extremely hard to believe that Jon would murder his love and unborn child. To be honest, it’s more believable that Dany stabs Jon to save the world than vice versa. She has that ruthlessness in her IMO. But I don’t see either scenario happening. They could just be sharing a loving moment, she could even be announcing her pregnancy . IF it’s even a real photo. 

[GrailKing]

14 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

I am extremely skeptical that after months of relative nothing re filming pictures and leaks, someone somehow manages to have info on arguably the biggest WTF twist for the show. And they manage one blurry pic of DJ talking but can’t snap another when the stabbing happens? Suuuurrree.

The pic might be real but I think the Nissa Nissa stuff is bullshit.

I just think it may be a scene she tells Jon she's pregnant.

[Edith]

22 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

I am extremely skeptical that after months of relative nothing re filming pictures and leaks, someone somehow manages to have info on arguably the biggest WTF twist for the show. And they manage one blurry pic of DJ talking but can’t snap another when the stabbing happens? Suuuurrree.

The pic might be real but I think the Nissa Nissa stuff is bullshit.

This was the same excuse for Lads leaks and they turned out to be true. I not saying this leak is true but we can't dismiss it either. The same for Jon picture in BOB, that was the biggest spoiler for season 6 and it got leak.

17 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I agree with this. I don’t see Nissa Nissa happening. They have made no mention of it on the show and it would just be baffling for most viewers. I also find it extremely hard to believe that Jon would murder his love and unborn child. To be honest, it’s more believable that Dany stabs Jon to save the world than vice versa. She has that ruthlessness in her IMO. But I don’t see either scenario happening. They could just be sharing a loving moment, she could even be announcing her pregnancy . IF it’s even a real photo. 

They didn't mention Dany inability to have children for 6 season until it bacame part of the plot. D&D don't like to spoil future plots. AA and lightbringer has been mentioned in the show.

The photo seems very real, it looks like they're practicing before shooting. Now the leak that came with it, well a big grain of salt.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Edith

[GraceK]

14 minutes ago, Edith said:

The photo seems very real, it looks like they're practicing before shooting. Now the leak that came with it, well a big grain of salt.

This is where I’m at with this honestly. :)

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

I agree with this. I don’t see Nissa Nissa happening. They have made no mention of it on the show and it would just be baffling for most viewers. I also find it extremely hard to believe that Jon would murder his love and unborn child. To be honest, it’s more believable that Dany stabs Jon to save the world than vice versa. She has that ruthlessness in her IMO. But I don’t see either scenario happening. They could just be sharing a loving moment, she could even be announcing her pregnancy . IF it’s even a real photo. 

D & D like to do this thing where they take out the set up of the books in order to make things more surprising.

 

I'm still iffy on where this is legit though.

But this quote has been going around on Reddit and other forums:

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce." - Daenerys III, AGOT

Sounds like Daenerys being turned into Lightbringer.

The word choice in this quote is revealing.

[bubble sparkly]

The only was I see Nissa Nissa happening is if Dany is resurrected like Jon was. Either Beric or Melisandre will do something/ sacrifice themselves and Dany and the baby willl be good as new an episode later.

DJ get the main character “rules don’t apply” treatment all the time from GRRM and D&D, and I don’t see that stopping in the final season.

[WindyNights]

5 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

The only was I see Nissa Nissa happening is if Dany is resurrected like Jon was. Either Beric or Melisandre will do something/ sacrifice themselves and Dany and the baby willl be good as new an episode later.

DJ get the main character “rules don’t apply” treatment all the time from GRRM and D&D, and I don’t see that stopping in the final season.

I.....severely doubt it.

Regardless, the baby would die even with resurrection.

[bubble sparkly]

56 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Regardless, the baby would die even with resurrection.

Why?  Beric and Jon were both 100% dead and then they got fully revived without issue.  If pregnant Dany was stabbed in the heart and then revived, why would the baby remain dead? I don't recall any character on the show categorically stating that pregnant women can't be brought back to life with their foetus intact.

I still think this Nissa Nissa thing is fake, but whatever happens there is no way the Targ baby is dying.  GRRM is obsessed with Targs above any other family (he can't be bothered to finish the series but still finds time to write numerous Targ history books).  Dany and Jon might both die, but Targaryen restoration is 100% happening.

[John Potts]

I can't see GRRM bringing back Jon only to have him die (or be sacrificed by Dany). IMO, he's the reluctant ruler who will end up on the throne (or whatever's left of it). Given the ending is (supposedly) bittersweet, I expect he doesn't share it with Danerys - maybe she dies in childbirth or maybe she's sacrificed (or sacrifices herself) to save the world.

On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 9:23 PM, Eyes High said:

My best current guess?

Guaranteed to die: Beric, the Mountain, Qyburn, Jaime, Euron, Cersei, Melisandre, Varys, Tormund (I'm guessing Brienne survives and that D&D aren't going to want to answer questions from fans about whether or not Tormund and Brienne ever get together), the NK

Likely doomed: Pod, Grey Worm, Jorah, Theon (his nice moment with Jon in S7 seemed like a death flag to me), Alys Karstark, Ned Umber, Dolorous Edd

Could go either way: Sansa, the Hound, Missandei, Bronn, Yara

Probably safe: Tyrion, Brienne, Lyanna Mormont, Davos

Safe as houses: Jon, Dany, Sam, Gilly, Little Sam, Bran, Arya

I'd give decent odds on Jamie making it out alive. I'd bet on Sansa surviving too. But I' go with most of those.

[domina89]

I'm extremely skeptical of the NN 'leak'.  NN hasn't even been mentioned on the show, as others have stated upthread, which makes focusing on it now unlikely because it won't be meaningful to everyone.  Also, if this is some penultimate moment on the series, wouldn't D & D have spent more time building up Jon and Dany's relationship in order to make the impact greater?  I am a fan of both characters, but honestly I don't know if this would really gut me the way I think it would be intended, simply because we haven't had enough time to make Jon and Dany's love story fully believable.  I just don't think it could be comparable to "hold the door" or the death of Shireen, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Sunshinegal]

13 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I'm extremely skeptical of the NN 'leak'.  NN hasn't even been mentioned on the show, as others have stated upthread, which makes focusing on it now unlikely because it won't be meaningful to everyone.  Also, if this is some penultimate moment on the series, wouldn't D & D have spent more time building up Jon and Dany's relationship in order to make the impact greater?  I am a fan of both characters, but honestly I don't know if this would really gut me the way I think it would be intended, simply because we haven't had enough time to make Jon and Dany's love story fully believable.  I just don't think it could be comparable to "hold the door" or the death of Shireen, but maybe I'm wrong.

I agree.  The impact of Jon or Dany being Nissa Nissa would not have much of an impact.

If say Brienne and Jaime or Arya and Gendry or Arya and Jon or Bran and Meera  or jorah and dany or sam amd gilly or sam and jon will have an impact.  I would feel especially gutted if it is jon and arya.

[GraceK]

I don’t get how people automatically jumped to the conclusion that this picture is NN anyway. They can literally just be talking to  each other. Having a private moment. About to kiss. Nothing at all screams “ Jon’s about to kill her!”. It’s a picture of the two of them close to each other, that’s it.

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

I don’t get how people automatically jumped to the conclusion that this picture is NN anyway. They can literally just be talking to  each other. Having a private moment. About to kiss. Nothing at all screams “ Jon’s about to kill her!”. It’s a picture of the two of them close to each other, that’s it.

Because the HBO employee who handed off this picture said that .

 

The one who leaked it out claims he work for HBO and says "Jon and Dany were kissing but then Jon takes a step back and shuffes his sword through Dany's heart and this is how Azor Ahai is reborn "

[WindyNights]

8 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Why?  Beric and Jon were both 100% dead and then they got fully revived without issue.  If pregnant Dany was stabbed in the heart and then revived, why would the baby remain dead? I don't recall any character on the show categorically stating that pregnant women can't be brought back to life with their foetus intact.

I still think this Nissa Nissa thing is fake, but whatever happens there is no way the Targ baby is dying.  GRRM is obsessed with Targs above any other family (he can't be bothered to finish the series but still finds time to write numerous Targ history books).  Dany and Jon might both die, but Targaryen restoration is 100% happening.

Because it's implied that fire wights don't age. They're in magic stasis. And a fetus being revived within the mother would be horrifying if it can't develop further.

Also Beric is dead in the books so he won't be able to do it. The only who can maybe resurrect is Melisandre or Jon (but fire wights who then perform resurrection once die and he don't have enough life force to revive two people)

Also, the idea that GRRM is obsessed with Targs above all houses and that's why he won't end them has always been a weird assumption. 

He has more Stark main characters than Targaryen main characters, his last book was originally titled A Time For Wolves not A Time for Dragons and he has a fascination with wolves(and even helps out a wolf sanctuary). Hell, he's even written about werewolves before too.

Like, of course, he writes more about Targaryens in his history book because they were the primary rulers of Westeros in the past. (And the Dance of Dragons even ends with a Stark fixing everything at the end.)

Also even if they were his favorite house, none of that precludes him from ending it just like how many authors kill off their favorite characters to serve the narrative and because they wanted to give that character a good ending.

(House Plantangenet is also never restored at the end of the War of the Roses. They go extinct. Just saying.)

[Edith]

Only speculation in this post: This was the scene when Sam reads about the cave full of dragonglass in Dragonstone. When this picture came out the first time, fans realized that Gilly was reading about Azor Ahai. She didn't mention it in the episode though, but the book exists and we know that Sam took a lot of books with him to Winterfell.

Melisandre said that both Jon & Dany have a role to play in the war and in the original outline of season 7, she said that they need to create something.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Edith

[GraceK]

48 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Because the HBO employee who handed off this picture said that .

 

 

Yeah I don’t buy it. Anyone can say anything . I for one prefer to wait until something is confirmed before jumping on the tin foil bandwagon.

 

i also just realized that sounded a lot more rude than I intended. My apologies, I wasn’t trying to be snarky :)

Edited March 15, 2018 by GraceK

[GraceK]

A nice article 

http://watchersonthewall.com/iain-glen-promises-closure-in-season-8-kit-harington-looks-back-on-game-of-thrones-season-7-location-gets-tourism-boost/#more-160070

I was actually left with a pretty optimistic feeling!

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

(House Plantangenet is also never restored at the end of the War of the Roses. They go extinct. Just saying.)

Even aside from the dubious notion of using the real history to project outcomes so 1-to-1, the Tudors were a Plantagenet female-line cadet branch (doubly so, really, since they were maternal relatives of Henry VI in addition to their descent from John of Gaunt).  So in your analogy there would need to be a Targaryen-descended ruler taking the throne.

[Happy Harpy]

20 hours ago, GraceK said:

I agree with this. I don’t see Nissa Nissa happening. They have made no mention of it on the show and it would just be baffling for most viewers. I also find it extremely hard to believe that Jon would murder his love and unborn child. To be honest, it’s more believable that Dany stabs Jon to save the world than vice versa. She has that ruthlessness in her IMO. But I don’t see either scenario happening. They could just be sharing a loving moment, she could even be announcing her pregnancy . IF it’s even a real photo. 

In my opinion, if a missing prophecy  is mentioned it will be the valonqar, because part of it appeared already. Providing that Cersei is actually killed off by one of her little brothers, it would be typical D&D to keep that part of the book knowledge and only reveal it when it becomes directly relevant for the show's plot. Now that Tyrion and Jaime are both "against" her, they have equal chances to be the valonqar and it will be fresh in the mind of casual viewers, sparing several seasons of speculation. I just thought that S8 could open like S5 did, with Maggie the Frog, reminding the viewers that Cersei wasn't supposed to have more kids, giving the valonqar part of the prophecy and then Cersei wakes-up miscarrying.

Anyway, I don't think they'll take two book prophecies out of their hats in the last season, not after they ditched Lady Stoneheart in order to keep the full impact of Jon's death.

Also, when something is foreshadowed it's in a rather direct way. Example: The rat cook story. It was told by Bran just after the Red Wedding. The Frey pies happened three seasons later, but it was explained in full letters and not alluded to in vague terms. It seems weird that something as important as the "hero" killing the "heroine" wasn't suggested earlier.

My position is the same: believe what's in the picture, don't believe the interpretation given until proven reliable. Especially since HBO is in full campaign to make people believe that everybody dies, heroes die, etc. I don't know why they seem to think it'll attract audiences, though.