Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[WindyNights]

Preliminary outline for season 7 has just been combed through:

 

 

Major changes were made 

[Edith]

A little spoiler from L7R:

Right now they are filming scenes in Belfast's Titanic studios, perhaps in the new set. And thanks to our sources in Belfast, we've caught at least three actors there: Liam Cunningham, Daniel Portman and Joe Dempsie, that is, Davos, Podrick and Gendry.

In addition, and this is relevant, for the scenes that have been filmed these last days were looking for female extras. Because of the extra profile that they were looking for, it gives us the impression that, except for a big surprise, they are not scenes of battles or combat.

In the famous new gigantic set there are already installed several booths that explain that it is probably already being filming there. In any case, it is part of the Titanic studios, so we do not know with certainty if these extras were going to shoot an interior scene inside the studio rooms or in the new set.

https://lossietereinos.com/novedades-desde-belfast-liam-cunningham-davos-joe-dempsie-gendry-estado-rodando-escenas-nuevo-set/amp/

[Eyes High]

From WOTW:

We know that three actresses will be appearing in GOT S8. The first is Danielle Galligan, who according to her CV will be playing "Sarra" in a David Nutter-directed episode. WOTW points out that the only Sarra in ASOIAF is a Sarra Frey (twin to Serra), but it wouldn't be the first time GOT used a book name in a different context (Myranda being Ramsay's lover in the show, e.g.). However, there is a Sarra Stark way back in the Stark historical family tree, so maybe the GOT writers just used "Sarra" as a Northern name.

Emer McDaid is the second, whose CV also indicates she'll be in GOT but doesn't indicate the role or the episode. Galligan posted on her Instagram a photo of herself, McDaid, and a third actress (Alice Nokes), with the caption "And that's a wrap," so it seems like a safe assumption that Alice Nokes is also in S8.

An acting agency also posted on their website the names of several of their actors, including McDaid, who are joining the cast of a "major TV series." The other actors are Thomas Finnegan, Conor Maguire, Eileen McCloskey and Katie Tumelty.

A poster in the comments section at WOTW noted that McDaid followed Pod and Tormund's actors on Instagram. Maybe McDaid has a scene with them...? The actress is red-haired and blue-eyed, so maybe she's playing one of Tormund's daughters...? Maybe, like Alys Karstark in S7, she makes an appearance in a big Northern powwow scene.

[Eyes High]

WOTW reports a doozy: the new set being built outside the Belfast studio is meant to be multiple city streets of King's Landing, and the reason that they're building a new set as opposed to using a real city is that the set's going to be destroyed with fire, and according to WOTW's sources the fire is dragonfire. This may mean that KL will be razed with dragonfire. I guess that means that GOT won't be going to the wildfire well for KL's destruction as many have speculated. 

WOTW also mentions in the same post that based on new information about the Winterfell set, it looks like Winterfell will be subject to an extended siege by the WWs.

[SeanC]

The dragonfire report would perhaps suggest that the Night King ends up being the one to sack King's Landing.  Interested to see how that would affect Cersei's plot.

[Edith]

21 hours ago, Eyes High said:

WOTW reports a doozy: the new set being built outside the Belfast studio is meant to be multiple city streets of King's Landing, and the reason that they're building a new set as opposed to using a real city is that the set's going to be destroyed with fire, and according to WOTW's sources the fire is dragonfire. This may mean that KL will be razed with dragonfire. I guess that means that GOT won't be going to the wildfire well for KL's destruction as many have speculated. 

WOTW also mentions in the same post that based on new information about the Winterfell set, it looks like Winterfell will be subject to an extended siege by the WWs.

How can Winterfell be subject to an extended siege? Where are the dragons? Will WWs arrive first at Winterfell that Team Dany? 

L7R is saying that most of the extras working in the interiors of the Winterfell set are women, also that Dothraki and unsullied has been filming a lot in interiors sets in Belfast.  

[WindyNights]

On 12/1/2017 at 2:56 PM, SeanC said:

The dragonfire report would perhaps suggest that the Night King ends up being the one to sack King's Landing.  Interested to see how that would affect Cersei's plot.

Actually not at all. This is actually pretty good evidence for the "Bran Them All" theory that I posted a month ago.

 

Why would the NK try to burn KL down when he wants to add the population to his army? Can't make wights with ashes. 

Besides if KL is getting burned down then I think the same will happen in the books with the same culprit behind it. And since the NK isn't in the books then I don't think it's him.

[Eyes High]

On 12/1/2017 at 5:56 PM, SeanC said:

The dragonfire report would perhaps suggest that the Night King ends up being the one to sack King's Landing.  Interested to see how that would affect Cersei's plot.

I assume that if KL is nuked with dragonfire that Cersei is long gone--fleeing to Casterly Rock seems to be the most popular theory, although I can't recall if there was any leaden foreshadowing to that effect in the show on the order of the Dany/Jon child foreshadowing--by the time that occurs.

 

1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

Besides if KL is getting burned down then I think the same will happen in the books with the same culprit behind it.

I'm inclined to agree.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

Besides if KL is getting burned down then I think the same will happen in the books with the same culprit behind it. And since the NK isn't in the books then I don't think it's him.

The Night King himself doesn't need to exist for KL to be destroyed (say, by wildfire) during the Long Night during a wight attack, though.

Given the extent to which D&D seem to be making stuff up, though, unless Cersei is killed during the fire (seems unlikely) this may not be the sort of thing that would be the same. 

[Edith]

14 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The Night King himself doesn't need to exist for KL to be destroyed (say, by wildfire) during the Long Night during a wight attack, though.

Given the extent to which D&D seem to be making stuff up, though, unless Cersei is killed during the fire (seems unlikely) this may not be the sort of thing that would be the same. 

But what if the burning of KL is the third moment D&D talked about? The first two were sacrifices, what if the third one is one too? And the shocking part is the person who does it? 

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Edith said:

But what if the burning of KL is the third moment D&D talked about? The first two were sacrifices, what if the third one is one too? And the shocking part is the person who does it? 

That’s certainly plausible, don’t get me wrong.  I just don’t think it can be assumed with certainty to be the same as the books st this point.

[WindyNights]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I assume that if KL is nuked with dragonfire that Cersei is long gone--fleeing to Casterly Rock seems to be the most popular theory, although I can't recall if there was any leaden foreshadowing to that effect in the show on the order of the Dany/Jon child foreshadowing--by the time that occurs.

 

I'm inclined to agree.

Cersei mentions that maybe Euron had the right idea. Taking everyone important to you and fleeing so yeah, that's been foreshadowed

[Edith]

6 hours ago, SeanC said:

That’s certainly plausible, don’t get me wrong.  I just don’t think it can be assumed with certainty to be the same as the books st this point.

I read in another forum that back in season 4, D&D mentioned that between all of Bran visions, the last one, the dragon flying over KL was the most important one. So whatever is that dragon doing, burning KL, and whoever is riding or warging the dragon, its definitely something they have been planning for a while, even back then when GRRM was still writing episodes for the show.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Edith

[Eyes High]

12 hours ago, Edith said:

But what if the burning of KL is the third moment D&D talked about? The first two were sacrifices, what if the third one is one too? And the shocking part is the person who does it? 

I think the relevant quote from D&D about the third moment hinted it was from the very end of the series, so I doubt that the burning of KL qualifies. It seems like something that pertains to the endgame.

I am a little curious as to why they're using live fire for the burning of KL as opposed to just CGI fire as they did with the sept explosion sequence. That seems to imply that we'll see main characters in the thick of things, as we did with the Field of Fire/Tarly execution scenes, as opposed to a simple fire blast as with the sept explosion.

 

6 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Cersei mentions that maybe Euron had the right idea. Taking everyone important to you and fleeing so yeah, that's been foreshadowed

Yes, thank you. That does seem like foreshadowing (although Cersei doesn't have anyone important to her left at this point). To be fair, Cersei's final reckoning taking place at Casterly Rock is a fan theory that predates the show.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Eyes High

[YaddaYadda]

27 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Yes, thank you. That does seem like foreshadowing (although Cersei doesn't have anyone important to her left at this point). To be fair, Cersei's final reckoning taking place at Casterly Rock is a fan theory that predates the show.

If she's still pregnant, that might be important enough for her. But it's Cersei, so who knows what's going through her head.

[Wouter]

22 hours ago, Edith said:

How can Winterfell be subject to an extended siege? Where are the dragons? Will WWs arrive first at Winterfell that Team Dany? 

L7R is saying that most of the extras working in the interiors of the Winterfell set are women, also that Dothraki and unsullied has been filming a lot in interiors sets in Belfast.  

A siege for Winterfell is something I have been expecting for a while. It's a strong castle with its own heating system, and presumably the point where many northerners will flee too. And in the show, Sansa has been stockpiling food inside the castle. Since it is is unlikely the Others/White Walkers will simply be defeated by dragonfire in a single battle (especially in the show, where the NK has his own dragon) but may indeed reach all the way down to King's Landing, I can see a part of the army stopping to besiege a relatively well-prepared Winterfell while the main body continues south.

Interesting theory on Bran burning KL to stop the Others from rebuilding their army, but shouldn't he be able to stop them before they reach the city itself, if he can command at least one dragon (and without effective opposition, apparently)?

[MrsR]

Cersei will never leave Kings Landing. Never.  Casterley Rock when last we saw it was not in the hands of Lannister forces. Casterly Rock is over.

Have they ever mentioned on the show that Winterfell is heated by hot springs?  It's detailed in the books but the show seems to treat Winterfell as a freaking drafty chilly domicile.  I think the advantage Winterfell has is the unusually large crypt system. A great place to hide out from wights. 

Except maybe then newly risen ones, like Lyanna. Can you imagine Sansa being chased by a newly risen Lyanna?   I've got my fingers crossed for that one.

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Except maybe then newly risen ones, like Lyanna. Can you imagine Sansa being chased by a newly risen Lyanna?   I've got my fingers crossed for that one.

I doubt this will happen, but in the books I am very bothered by the statues that are lacking swords, be it Lyanna who doesn't have a sword, the swords that were taken by Bran and Co or the swords that have rusted to nothing. 

[Edith]

5 hours ago, Wouter said:

A siege for Winterfell is something I have been expecting for a while. It's a strong castle with its own heating system, and presumably the point where many northerners will flee too. And in the show, Sansa has been stockpiling food inside the castle. Since it is is unlikely the Others/White Walkers will simply be defeated by dragonfire in a single battle (especially in the show, where the NK has his own dragon) but may indeed reach all the way down to King's Landing, I can see a part of the army stopping to besiege a relatively well-prepared Winterfell while the main body continues south.

I'm not surprised about Winterfell being under attack. I'm surprised by the extended siege by WW because of the dragons. I can understand that the NK might fly to other places but where is team Dany? Does this mean that the WW arrives first at Winterfell and at the last moment (when all hope is bla bla bla) comes Dany to save them?

[WindyNights]

7 hours ago, Wouter said:

A siege for Winterfell is something I have been expecting for a while. It's a strong castle with its own heating system, and presumably the point where many northerners will flee too. And in the show, Sansa has been stockpiling food inside the castle. Since it is is unlikely the Others/White Walkers will simply be defeated by dragonfire in a single battle (especially in the show, where the NK has his own dragon) but may indeed reach all the way down to King's Landing, I can see a part of the army stopping to besiege a relatively well-prepared Winterfell while the main body continues south.

Interesting theory on Bran burning KL to stop the Others from rebuilding their army, but shouldn't he be able to stop them before they reach the city itself, if he can command at least one dragon (and without effective opposition, apparently)?

 No because the dragons aren't enough to win against the NK especially since he has one.  But if most of the army of the dead are in KL and Bran uses dragonfire to set off the wildfire then that would be enough to swing things back in the favor of the living. It's one big fire trap.

 

It's not really different from what Show Robb did. He sacrificed 2 thousand men to bait Tywin and win against Jaime's army

7 hours ago, MrsR said:

Cersei will never leave Kings Landing. Never.  Casterley Rock when last we saw it was not in the hands of Lannister forces. Casterly Rock is over.

Have they ever mentioned on the show that Winterfell is heated by hot springs?  It's detailed in the books but the show seems to treat Winterfell as a freaking drafty chilly domicile.  I think the advantage Winterfell has is the unusually large crypt system. A great place to hide out from wights. 

Except maybe then newly risen ones, like Lyanna. Can you imagine Sansa being chased by a newly risen Lyanna?   I've got my fingers crossed for that one.

And Cersei is planning to take back all the places that belonged to the Lannisters while Daenerys is away. So either she flees from KL when the NK comes or she's already dead bybthat point

[SimoneS]

All that wildfire hidden all over King's Landing and it is burnt down by dragon fire? Something doesn't seem right there. Whatever sets King's Landing on fire would have to set off the wildfire.

[MrsR]

Well the image from Bran's vision is of a dragon flying over King's Landing. Not burning it. It could be an image of KL after Dany or Jon or Dany and Jon have taken control. It could be a triumphant, protective fly by.

I'm sure Qyburn and Cersie are aware that a dragon hit on KL would knock the place out because of the wildfire. That means the citizens can be used as human shields.  Cersie won't die in an explosion. No Cersie is going to die up close and personal.

Casterly Rock is worthless, pregnable and her army would have to go out on an open field. We've learned and Cersie has learned that that is deadly.  Casterly Rock is out of the equation.

Edited December 4, 2017 by MrsR

[Eyes High]

In addition to D&D stressing the importance of the dragon in Bran's vision in 4x02, there's also the sequence of images from his 3ER "download" vision in Season 6, which included Aerys screaming "Burn them all!", two shots of the dragon flying over KL, and multiple shots of the WWs and the wights. It could be setting the stage for Bran to deal with the wights by "burning them all" using a dragon, which would explain why he had those particular visions.

...Of course, "burn them all" referred to the use of wildfire, which also featured prominently in Bran's vision (shots of the wildfire being poured out, the pyromancers, and of course the flames rushing to engulf the sept).

 

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

All that wildfire hidden all over King's Landing and it is burnt down by dragon fire? Something doesn't seem right there. Whatever sets King's Landing on fire would have to set off the wildfire.

Sure, but if it were a straight-up wildfire explosion, it would be pure CGI as with the previous instances. 

 

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Casterly Rock is worthless, pregnable and her army would have to go out on an open field. We've learned and Cersie has learned that that is deadly.  Casterly Rock is out of the equation.

Not if Cersei's out of options and has to flee KL for whatever reason. 

[Wouter]

18 hours ago, Edith said:

I'm not surprised about Winterfell being under attack. I'm surprised by the extended siege by WW because of the dragons. I can understand that the NK might fly to other places but where is team Dany? Does this mean that the WW arrives first at Winterfell and at the last moment (when all hope is bla bla bla) comes Dany to save them?

Dany and Jon may be fighting another part of the enemies army, elsewhere. And that doesn't have to be a clear win that leaves them ready to take other forces going for Winterfell, at least not for a while.

[MrsR]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Not if Cersei's out of options and has to flee KL for whatever reason. 

If that were the case she would leave by sea. She has a fleet behind her and a champion.  Exile in the free cities is more of an option than going back to Casterly Rock. Essos is where the banished flee to in this world. That's been well established.

I don't see Cersei fleeing, she will stay to the bitter end.

[WindyNights]

17 hours ago, MrsR said:

Well the image from Bran's vision is of a dragon flying over King's Landing. Not burning it. It could be an image of KL after Dany or Jon or Dany and Jon have taken control. It could be a triumphant, protective fly by.

I'm sure Qyburn and Cersie are aware that a dragon hit on KL would knock the place out because of the wildfire. That means the citizens can be used as human shields.  Cersie won't die in an explosion. No Cersie is going to die up close and personal.

Casterly Rock is worthless, pregnable and her army would have to go out on an open field. We've learned and Cersie has learned that that is deadly.  Casterly Rock is out of the equation.

Daenerys and Bran both have a vision of a destroyed KL. The leaks show dragon fire hitting KL which guarantees that KL is blowing up in a wildfire explosion.

And GRRM and the show runners have been foreshadowing Bran doing it from the beginning.

 

Cersei doesn't care about KL and she's not the type to make a final stand when can flee.

I don't think Cersei will die in an explosion so either she flees to CR where Jaime kills her or Jaime kills her before the Others arrive leading to a leaderless KL being attacked.

[SimoneS]

22 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Sure, but if it were a straight-up wildfire explosion, it would be pure CGI as with the previous instances. 

Good point. I was looking Talking Thrones latest speculation YT video on this and have to say that taken together with WOTW's inside info, it does look like the white walkers and a dragon are involved in the destruction of King's Landing. This is something I never considered as I always thought that Cersei would use the wildfire to burn it down. 

I don't understand how or why the NK would get past Jon and Dany to head to King's Landing or why he would bother to burn King's Landing, but it is exciting to learn more about what might be happening.

Edited December 5, 2017 by SimoneS

[Edith]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Good point. I was looking Talking Thrones latest speculation YT video on this and have to say that taken together with WOTW's inside info, it does look like the white walkers and a dragon are involved in the destruction of King's Landing. This is something I never considered as I always thought that Cersei would use the wildfire to burn it down. 

I don't understand how or why the NK would get past Jon and Dany to head to King's Landing or why he would bother to burn King's Landing, but it is exciting to learn more about what might be happening.

The NK would not burn KL. It's 1 million of meat for his army, why would he burn them,  when he can wait for them to die and come back as wights?

There is probably going to be an extended famine through the realm. It was very foreshadowed last season. First in the hound scene with the old man and daughter, Jaime mentioning it to Cersei and bringing all the food from the Reach, Dany burning all that food before winter came south and complaining of not having enough for her armies, and Sansa storing up food at Winterfell.

And now that the wall has been broken, anyone in Westeros who dies can become a wight. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Edith

[Eyes High]

47 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Good point. I was looking Talking Thrones latest speculation YT video on this and have to say that taken together with WOTW's inside info, it does look like the white walkers and a dragon are involved in the destruction of King's Landing. This is something I never considered as I always thought that Cersei would use the wildfire to burn it down. 

You and me both. The idea that a dragon would burn down KL (or portions of it, anyway) never occurred to me, honestly. 

[bubble sparkly]

Maybe the Night King and some of his army go to KL to grow numbers while the remaining army fights in the North? If KL has an enormous number of people living there maybe the NK wants to give his army a massive numbers boost.

If that happens then burning KL makes sense if they are all wights. Or perhaps it will be framed as a big moral dilemma ie should the good guys pre-emptively kill everyone in KL to stop the NK from being able to turn them into wights.

[Eyes High]

A few recent tidbits:

1. There will be Iceland filming for a few days in February 2018 involving some main cast.

2. Kit and Alfie were spotted in Belfast yesterday.

3. Maisie flew back to Belfast last night to shoot scenes at the crack of dawn this morning.

4. Liam Cunningham on the S8 scripts: "So it was all new to us, and it is just, ‘Oohs,’ and, ‘Ahhs’. It is as it was in the past, it is just beautiful storytelling. Huge surprises. Wonderful stuff. I can safely say it will be a fantastic, fantastic finish to this incredible story."

5. Jason Momoa on learning what will happen in S8: "Just knowing how amazing this season is going to be. It’s going to be the greatest thing that’s ever aired on TV. It’s going to be unbelievable. It’s going to f— up a lot of people. And it was a bummer because I’m a huge fan and I didn’t want to know what’s going on. I was like, ‘Damn, I didn’t want to know that!'"

[MrsR]

11 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Others arrive leading to a leaderless KL being attacked.

See I don't get this statement. Why attack KL if Cersie is not there.  KL isn't the evil bitch, Cersei is the evil bitch, wouldn't they go after Cersei where ever she goes?  She's the problem.

I think the whole shebang ends in KL.  And I have no doubt that parts of KL burns. I think the Red Keep is probably a goner. Because that is where Cersei is.  I don't see her ever fleeing. Unless.

As for the wights I don't see them getting much past River Run or even The Twins. That's a hell of a bottle neck at The Twins.  I can see the NK and Viserion making it past The Twins while his standing army gets stuck . Then he flies on to KL and Dany and her dragons have to follow.  That's the only reason why Cersei would leave KL.

 

18 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Jason Momoa on learning what will happen in S8: "Just knowing how amazing this season is going to be. It’s going to be the greatest thing that’s ever aired on TV. It’s going to be unbelievable. It’s going to f— up a lot of people. And it was a bummer because I’m a huge fan and I didn’t want to know what’s going on. I was like, ‘Damn, I didn’t want to know that!'"

So Jason Momoa's stop in Belfast wasn't just a friendly visit.

I didn't think so.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

5. Jason Momoa on learning what will happen in S8: "Just knowing how amazing this season is going to be. It’s going to be the greatest thing that’s ever aired on TV. It’s going to be unbelievable. It’s going to f— up a lot of people. And it was a bummer because I’m a huge fan and I didn’t want to know what’s going on. I was like, ‘Damn, I didn’t want to know that!'"

Now I am scared. I hope that he is just being dramatic.

[WindyNights]

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

See I don't get this statement. Why attack KL if Cersie is not there.  KL isn't the evil bitch, Cersei is the evil bitch, wouldn't they go after Cersei where ever she goes?  She's the problem.

I think the whole shebang ends in KL.  And I have no doubt that parts of KL burns. I think the Red Keep is probably a goner. Because that is where Cersei is.  I don't see her ever fleeing. Unless.

As for the wights I don't see them getting much past River Run or even The Twins. That's a hell of a bottle neck at The Twins.  I can see the NK and Viserion making it past The Twins while his standing army gets stuck . Then he flies on to KL and Dany and her dragons have to follow.  That's the only reason why Cersei would leave KL.

 

So Jason Momoa's stop in Belfast wasn't just a friendly visit.

I didn't think so.

Why would the White Walkers care about Cersei? They want more numbers to add to their armies. That's why they go after KL.

If you unleash dragonfire on the streets of KL, the whole thing is going up in flames not just the Red Keep.

And you realize that the dead can walk under water, right? And that the south doesn't have obsidian to kill the undead with 

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

So Jason Momoa's stop in Belfast wasn't just a friendly visit.

I didn't think so.

Maybe, maybe not. Given the secrecy around S8, it stretches credulity to posit that Momoa would be swanning around taking selfies and talking about his visit if it had something to do with a surprise cameo. (Not to mention that Momoa has visited the set in previous seasons.) On the other hand, Momoa's level of fame may be such that GOT may be hiding him in plain sight by passing off his presence in Belfast as a friendly set visit. I don't think Momoa copping to knowing the ending means anything one way or another about a potential cameo. D&D have been known to drop spoilers to cast members before.

 

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Now I am scared. I hope that he is just being dramatic.

I don't think the eighth season fucking up a lot of people, as Momoa put it, necessarily means something tragic. It probably just means more mindblowing twists and big set pieces. I don't think the show will ever top the end of 6x05 in the tragedy department, though.

[SimoneS]

55 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I don't think the eighth season fucking up a lot of people, as Momoa put it, necessarily means something tragic. It probably just means more mindblowing twists and big set pieces. I don't think the show will ever top the end of 6x05 in the tragedy department, though.

You are probably right. Now that I think about it he is probably just hyping up season.

[screamin]

3 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Why would the White Walkers care about Cersei? They want more numbers to add to their armies. That's why they go after KL.

If you unleash dragonfire on the streets of KL, the whole thing is going up in flames not just the Red Keep.

And you realize that the dead can walk under water, right? And that the south doesn't have obsidian to kill the undead with 

If the White Walkers get as far south as KL and breach the walls, they'd presumably have laid waste to most territory between and Westeros would be pretty much doomed already...and if the walls have been breached already by the White Walkers, such that Dany is required to use the dragons to flamethrow the streets against the WW, the living people are doomed anyway, regardless of whether there are caches of wildfire or not.  So whether or not Dany blows up KL in an attempted last-ditch defense would not be a big deal compared to the devastation wrought by the WW in getting that far to begin with.

Quote

Cersei doesn't care about KL and she's not the type to make a final stand when can flee.

Cersei absolutely DOES care about the Iron Throne and the power for which she's sacrificed everything else she's held dear in her life. IMO, having lost and/or sacrificed her kids, Jaime and everything else to keep that power, she's not going to give it up in exchange for a brief and miserable life on the run with nothing left (especially if it looks like the world is about to end in a zombie apocalypse anyway). I agree she's probably not going to die in an explosion, but that's because she's got the revelation of the YMBQ and the Valonqar coming to her before she's strangled.

[WindyNights]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

You are probably right. Now that I think about it he is probably just hyping up season.

I will point this out: 

GRRM: There are some people who read and want to believe in a world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose, and at the end they live happily ever after. That's not the kind of fiction that I write.

 

GRRM: "I've said before that the tone of the ending that I'm going for is bittersweet," Martin said. "I mean, it's no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it's a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives."

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

If the White Walkers get as far south as KL and breach the walls, they'd presumably have laid waste to most territory between and Westeros would be pretty much doomed already...and if the walls have been breached already by the White Walkers, such that Dany is required to use the dragons to flamethrow the streets against the WW, the living people are doomed anyway, regardless of whether there are caches of wildfire or not.  So whether or not Dany blows up KL in an attempted last-ditch defense would not be a big deal compared to the devastation wrought by the WW in getting that far to begin with.

Cersei absolutely DOES care about the Iron Throne and the power for which she's sacrificed everything else she's held dear in her life. IMO, having lost and/or sacrificed her kids, Jaime and everything else to keep that power, she's not going to give it up in exchange for a brief and miserable life on the run with nothing left (especially if it looks like the world is about to end in a zombie apocalypse anyway). I agree she's probably not going to die in an explosion, but that's because she's got the revelation of the YMBQ and the Valonqar coming to her before she's strangled.

I don't think you're quite getting it. Daenerys flamethrowering KL and blowing it up pretty much spells the end of her political goals. No one is going to accept her when she's murdered a million people with her Dragons.

That said, it's not Daenerys who is going to make that decision. It's Bran and he may very well do it on purpose to win. KL's population is a prize for the WW but it's also a death trap once someone sets off the wildfire.  I'm pushing the theory that Bran leads them there to kill them and sacrifices the population of KL as a result using Daenerys' dragons (and Daenerys getting the blame for it). It's not a last ditch effort. It's bait and a trap. It's not different than Show Robb sacrificing 2 thousand men to win against Jaime.

 

War demands sacrifices to win.

 

Cersei doesn't care about KL if it's at the cost of her life. She can rule from Casterly Rock if she wanted to. 

[SimoneS]

9 hours ago, WindyNights said:

I will point this out: 

GRRM: There are some people who read and want to believe in a world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose, and at the end they live happily ever after. That's not the kind of fiction that I write.

 

GRRM: "I've said before that the tone of the ending that I'm going for is bittersweet," Martin said. "I mean, it's no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it's a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives."

I am pretty sure that you have posted these comments before and I have said before that I am not debating or attempting to interpret GRRM's interview comments. 

[Eyes High]

There was filming yesterday at Ballintoy Harbour (previously used as Pyke). A Twitter user claimed that there's a new set build at the harbour. This same Twitter user posted a photo of a new GOT filming sign put up south of Ballycastle (on Drones Road, near Armoy). The only previous filming location near Armoy that I know of is Bregagh Road (the Dark Hedges), used for the Kingsroad. Could be something else, though: @Irishthrones notes this is near the area last used for the Dragonstone cliffs. Harrisonlingren on Twitter commented that a GOT location tour on the North Coast had to skip a couple of scene stops due to filming.

I'm wondering, given what happened last year with filming leaks in Spain, if the showrunners will try to film as little as possible in Spain and maximize the filming in Northern Ireland, where it seems as if it's much easier to secure the sets, to minimize the chance of filming leaks.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Eyes High

[screamin]

13 hours ago, WindyNights said:

I don't think you're quite getting it. Daenerys flamethrowering KL and blowing it up pretty much spells the end of her political goals. No one is going to accept her when she's murdered a million people with her Dragons.

That said, it's not Daenerys who is going to make that decision. It's Bran and he may very well do it on purpose to win. KL's population is a prize for the WW but it's also a death trap once someone sets off the wildfire.  I'm pushing the theory that Bran leads them there to kill them and sacrifices the population of KL as a result using Daenerys' dragons (and Daenerys getting the blame for it). It's not a last ditch effort. It's bait and a trap. It's not different than Show Robb sacrificing 2 thousand men to win against Jaime.

 

War demands sacrifices to win.

 

Cersei doesn't care about KL if it's at the cost of her life. She can rule from Casterly Rock if she wanted to. 

I don't think you're quite getting the point of my last post. Check out a map of Westeros. Yes, I know that KL is the most densely populated place in Westeros, and that there are more people there than in the entire sparsely-populated Arctic North. But that isn't true of the rest of the far more fertile territory between the North and KL. Supported by warmer weather and more productive farms, there are enough people and towns in the lands between the Wall and KL that if the WW make a triumphal march down the continent inducting all the people in their conquered territory into their forces, they would have won on sheer numbers long before they actually GOT to KL. Conquering KL after taking all the lands between wouldn't be necessary to a WW victory, it would just be the icing on their apocalyptic cake.

So if all those lands actually endured the WW going through, saw the animated corpses kill their loved ones and turn them into zombies, I REALLY don't think the traumatized scant survivors are going to suddenly get all judgemental on Dany if in fighting those horrifying conquerors, KL was inadvertently destroyed. If she WINS against those horrors, IMO, she will be hailed as a savior regardless. If the WW and wights break the walls of KL, the city is doomed, regardless of whether it is destroyed by a sudden explosion, or citywide fires due to dragon attacks against the invaders, or just conquered by WW. I think a population who has SEEN the WW go through the land and kill most of their loved ones would be understanding that the WW had to be defeated at any cost.

[Eyes High]

1. Maisie and Sophie were spotted in Belfast today.

2. Marc Rissman (cast as Harry Strickland) recently followed Michiel Huisman (Daario) and Pilou Asbaek (Euron) on Instagram.

[WindyNights]

3 hours ago, screamin said:

I don't think you're quite getting the point of my last post. Check out a map of Westeros. Yes, I know that KL is the most densely populated place in Westeros, and that there are more people there than in the entire sparsely-populated Arctic North. But that isn't true of the rest of the far more fertile territory between the North and KL. Supported by warmer weather and more productive farms, there are enough people and towns in the lands between the Wall and KL that if the WW make a triumphal march down the continent inducting all the people in their conquered territory into their forces, they would have won on sheer numbers long before they actually GOT to KL. Conquering KL after taking all the lands between wouldn't be necessary to a WW victory, it would just be the icing on their apocalyptic cake.

So if all those lands actually endured the WW going through, saw the animated corpses kill their loved ones and turn them into zombies, I REALLY don't think the traumatized scant survivors are going to suddenly get all judgemental on Dany if in fighting those horrifying conquerors, KL was inadvertently destroyed. If she WINS against those horrors, IMO, she will be hailed as a savior regardless. If the WW and wights break the walls of KL, the city is doomed, regardless of whether it is destroyed by a sudden explosion, or citywide fires due to dragon attacks against the invaders, or just conquered by WW. I think a population who has SEEN the WW go through the land and kill most of their loved ones would be understanding that the WW had to be defeated at any cost.

The Riverlands is a wreck and is depopulated due to the War of Five Kings. If the NK goes south(which we know he does), he'll make a beeline for KL because the people are gathered all in one spot there whereas going through every village will take more time that he might not even have with Daenerys' army equipped with obsidian and her dragons behind him.

 

The people won't know that burning KL was the only way to win. We get it, they won't. One of the biggest thematic underpinnings of this series is that the truth doesn't matter to people, only the appearance of the truth.  And take into account that they don't have social media here. Whatever truth is presented is going to go through a lot of games of telephone. The one thing people will know for sure is that it will be Daenerys' dragon that did it.

Who killed Joffrey? The Tyrells did but Tyrion and Sansa were widely blamed for it. 

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

1. Maisie and Sophie were spotted in Belfast today.

Maisie's been reported in Belfast a decent amount in recent weeks.  Sophie's spent like the last month or so in the Americas, by comparison.

One expects that, sooner or later next season, Arya will strike out into the wild on some mission or other.

Since Season 4 (when Sansa left King's Landing and effectively left the southern theatre), Sophie doesn't seem to have filmed for more than 2-3 weeks a year, at most.  Particularly last year, where Sansa never set foot outside Winterfell even once.  With some of the early filming signs pointing to a siege of Winterfell, I think it's very possible that that will also be the case for her in Season 8 (barring some sort of postscript with the surviving characters, assuming she's among them).

[screamin]

2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

The Riverlands is a wreck and is depopulated due to the War of Five Kings. If the NK goes south(which we know he does), he'll make a beeline for KL because the people are gathered all in one spot there whereas going through every village will take more time that he might not even have with Daenerys' army equipped with obsidian and her dragons behind him.

 

The people won't know that burning KL was the only way to win. We get it, they won't. One of the biggest thematic underpinnings of this series is that the truth doesn't matter to people, only the appearance of the truth.  And take into account that they don't have social media here. Whatever truth is presented is going to go through a lot of games of telephone. The one thing people will know for sure is that it will be Daenerys' dragon that did it.

 

Draw a more or less straight line down Westeros from the Wall, all through the North and the Riverlands and the Crownlands to KL...actually, no you can't, the geography of the Neck forces whatever army marches along it into a bottleneck. What's along the way, the easiest way for any army to go, alive or dead? The roads, placed along the shortest and easiest way, as all roads are. And what are along those roads? Necessarily, the towns and keeps. The army of the dead has to go through the North. Canonically, the North is actually most aware of the WW, and most prepared with weapons that actually have a chance of being effective against them (obsidian and dragons), as well as a significantly army of men both from the North and the Vale.

You're positing that the WW defeats them all BUT leaves Dany with at least one dragon intact, that the few survivors of the Vale and the North note the devastation but don't actually make a big deal out of it, that the WW and the freakin' army of the dead of the North and the Vale somehow tiptoe through the Riverlands and the Crownlands with NO ONE noticing the apocalyptic sight of thousands of dead marching even though such a march would take weeks, arrive at KL, besiege it (which you posit they DIDN'T do to EVERY other town they passed - why? who knows), successfully breach the walls of KL and swarm it...and THEN Dany attacks, weeks after her defeat in the North, even though she could have flown with her surviving dragon to catch up with the undead army on foot before they reach KL. You think the country will totally discount the apocalyptic army of the dead (which thousands would have witnessed) and blame Dany for - what, exactly? Not having gone into KL and plucked out each living person individually? They would totally brush off the apocalypse even though the surviving witnesses would consider her a divine savior, and blame her because blowing up KL is a total no-no - even though they followed Cersei in KL meekly after she blew up the Vatican before their very eyes (witnessed), and followed Robert after he sacked KL, and followed Aegon the Conqueror after he did what he did with his dragons, with no defeat of the WW to justify it. Permit me to doubt that's how it's going to go down.

Quote

Who killed Joffrey? The Tyrells did but Tyrion and Sansa were widely blamed for it. 

Yes...because the only people who knew the truth could be counted on the fingers of one hand, and those few people took especial care that their official fall guys Tyrion and Sansa were the only publically proclaimed suspects. Explain to me how the defeat of the armies of the North and the Vale and the march of the undead halfway down the continent slaughtering all in its way, with every survivor along the way witnessing it, can be hushed up as easily as the few conspirators involved in the death of one man. And explain to me WHO is actually going to do the hushing up of all those people and put the wrong story around the way LF and Olenna managed to keep Joffrey's murder quiet. After that carnage, and the ongoing winter, all whatever the survivors will have the strength to interest themselves in is getting through the rest of the winter. Remember, the last book is only A Dream of Spring. Telling propaganda lies and getting people fighting about them is for people who have enough resources to give a shit.

 

Quote

 

Cersei doesn't care about KL if it's at the cost of her life. She can rule from Casterly Rock if she wanted to. 

 

If Cersei is forced to flee from KL because of the approach of the army of the undead and the Night King - what's the point of her fleeing to Casterly Rock? How in the name of God can she "rule from Casterly Rock if she wanted to" in a land where the Night King has taken over?  If she sees the army of the dead is coming, she'll know that her gamble to let Danaerys' forces defeat the NK to the North while weakening themselves enough to let Cersei defeat them failed. She'll know that she can't defeat the NK on her own and Westeros is doomed. Why would she leave her Iron Throne for a few days of miserable powerless flight before eventually getting caught and slaughtered by the undead? From the perspective of someone seeing thousands of corpses marching, you're witnessing the approach of the end of the world. And we've already seen what Cersei does when she feels doomed - and it ain't fleeing pointlessly. What she did when she felt doomed was sit her ass on the Iron Throne, coolly planning to give Tommen and then herself a comfortable death.

IMO, that was a foretaste of what she will eventually do...and I can't imagine a vindictive woman like her would take the trouble to arrange the death of all the KL people she loathes - and then not stay to enjoy the sight before her own inevitable death. The books clearly foreshadow this when Jaime sees her almost sexually aroused at seeing the Tower of the Hand burn with wildfire. Cersei would never give up the comforting sight of watching her enemies burn to console her for the unavoidable loss of her own life.

Edited December 7, 2017 by screamin

[WindyNights]

19 minutes ago, screamin said:

Draw a more or less straight line down Westeros from the Wall, all through the North and the Riverlands and the Crownlands to KL...actually, no you can't, the geography of the Neck forces whatever army marches along it into a bottleneck. What's along the way, the easiest way for any army to go, alive or dead? The roads, placed along the shortest and easiest way, as all roads are. And what are along those roads? Necessarily, the towns and keeps. The army of the dead has to go through the North. Canonically, the North is actually most aware of the WW, and most prepared with weapons that actually have a chance of being effective against them (obsidian and dragons), as well as a significantly army of men both from the North and the Vale.

You're positing that the WW defeats them all BUT leaves Dany with at least one dragon intact, that the few survivors of the Vale and the North note the devastation but don't actually make a big deal out of it, that the WW and the freakin' army of the dead of the North and the Vale somehow tiptoe through the Riverlands and the Crownlands with NO ONE noticing the apocalyptic sight of thousands of dead marching even though such a march would take weeks, arrive at KL, besiege it (which you posit they DIDN'T do to EVERY other town they passed - why? who knows), successfully breach the walls of KL and swarm it...and THEN Dany attacks, weeks after her defeat in the North, even though she could have flown with her surviving dragon to catch up with the undead army on foot before they reach KL. You think the country will totally discount the apocalyptic army of the dead (which thousands would have witnessed) and blame Dany for - what, exactly? Not having gone into KL and plucked out each living person individually? They would totally brush off the apocalypse even though the surviving witnesses would consider her a divine savior, and blame her because blowing up KL is a total no-no - even though they followed Cersei in KL meekly after she blew up the Vatican before their very eyes (witnessed), and followed Robert after he sacked KL, and followed Aegon the Conqueror after he did what he did with his dragons, with no defeat of the WW to justify it. Permit me to doubt that's how it's going to go down.

Yes...because the only people who knew the truth could be counted on the fingers of one hand, and those few people took especial care that their official fall guys Tyrion and Sansa were the only publically proclaimed suspects. Explain to me how the defeat of the armies of the North and the Vale and the march of the undead halfway down the continent slaughtering all in its way, with every survivor along the way witnessing it, can be hushed up as easily as the few conspirators involved in the death of one man. And explain to me WHO is actually going to do the hushing up of all those people and put the wrong story around the way LF and Olenna managed to keep Joffrey's murder quiet. After that carnage, and the ongoing winter, all whatever the survivors will have the strength to interest themselves in is getting through the rest of the winter. Remember, the last book is only A Dream of Spring. Telling propaganda lies and getting people fighting about them is for people who have enough resources to give a shit.

 

If Cersei is forced to flee from KL because of the approach of the army of the undead and the Night King - what's the point of her fleeing to Casterly Rock? How in the name of God can she "rule from Casterly Rock if she wanted to" in a land where the Night King has taken over?  If she sees the army of the dead is coming, she'll know that her gamble to let Danaerys' forces defeat the NK to the North while weakening themselves enough to let Cersei defeat them failed. She'll know that she can't defeat the NK on her own and Westeros is doomed. Why would she leave her Iron Throne for a few days of miserable powerless flight before eventually getting caught and slaughtered by the undead? From the perspective of someone seeing thousands of corpses marching, you're witnessing the approach of the end of the world. And we've already seen what Cersei does when she feels doomed - and it ain't fleeing pointlessly. What she did when she felt doomed was sit her ass on the Iron Throne, coolly planning to give Tommen and then herself a comfortable death.

IMO, that was a foretaste of what she will eventually do...and I can't imagine a vindictive woman like her would take the trouble to arrange the death of all the KL people she loathes - and then not stay to enjoy the sight before her own inevitable death. The books clearly foreshadow this when Jaime sees her almost sexually aroused at seeing the Tower of the Hand burn with wildfire. Cersei would never give up the comforting sight of watching her enemies burn to console her for the unavoidable loss of her own life.

Actually, I'm not positing that at all. I'm predicting that the WW flee southward to gain more people to add to their army because those obsidian weapons plus the dragons are super-effective.

I'm sure villages and keeps will be hit but that still doesn't gnab you enough people fast enough. KL is the big prize. They grab that and it's over for Westeros.

Daenerys army cannot fly as fast as her dragons. She needs ships to get to KL fast enough and I do think she's going to reach KL with some of her troops before the NK gets there and mount an evacuation and defense of the city.

Also Cersei is publically denying that she blew up the High Sept and no one can prove she did it. The KL explosion will be witnessed by thousands of people.

Also Robert didn't ransack KL and they didn't blame Robert for it. The Lannisters particularly Tywin were blamed for the ransack of KL.

Aegon the Conqueror killed a thousands of people with dragons. Daenerys is going to blamed for a million deaths and this won't be troops that are burned but regular folks. Women and children.

No one is going to think Daenerys blew up KL to win. That's not what normal people are going to know. They might know that monsters invaded KL and they'll know that Daenerys' dragon blew up the people. 

Cersei's not blowing up KL. The spoilers have made it clear that it's going to be dragonfire that is going to blow KL up.

Season 7 Cersei already spelled out what she was going to do if the WW come. Get on a boat and take who matters (her baby and the Mountain maybe) with you and leave.

[SeanC]

Sophie spoke with Variety briefly, and seems to confirm what was pretty obvious from the filming schedule, that the show won't be back until 2019.

It's usually a mistake to focus too much on actor comments about the next season at this point, but for what it's worth:

Quote

How will Sansa fare next season without Littlefinger in her ear?
It’s going to be tricky for her, because at the end of last season, she felt that she had everything set up. She had her family back together. They were in control of the North again. This season, there’s a new threat, and all of a sudden she finds herself somewhat back in the deep end. And without Littlefinger, it’s a test for her of whether she can get through it. It’s a big challenge for her, without this master manipulator having her back. This season is more a passionate fight for her than a political, manipulative kind of fight.

Is that because this season she faces less a political threat and more an existential, zombie sort of threat?
Well, I don’t know. We’ll have to see.

Edited December 7, 2017 by SeanC

[MrsR]

What spoilers indicate that Dany and her dragons blow up KL?  Or Bran and the dragons? I'm confused, when did this information leak?

Edited December 7, 2017 by MrsR

[SeanC]

32 minutes ago, MrsR said:

What spoilers indicate that Dany and her dragons blow up KL?  Or Bran and the dragons? I'm confused, when did this information leak?

WOTW reported that KL (or part of it anyway) will be destroyed by dragonfire.  Beyond that, we know nothing, but people are speculating as to whether it’s the Night King or Dany’s dragons causing the blaze.