S03.E05: It's a Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt World

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

And this was my only complaint about the episode.  Why didn't Laurie pull out her phone and showed them the picture?

I know. Under the gun, Laurie blurted a pressured explanation of how and why Kevin was delusional -- you could see Matt mentally capturing the video, adding the chyron Psychobabble, and sending it to John and Michael. 

But two things. In the shock of the moment, Laurie was focused, poignantly, on trying to lessen John's pain and feeling of betrayal: that mattered to her more than proving she was right and Matt was wrong about whether Kevin was delusional. She wasn't really addressing the point about Evie; her mouth was reflexively delivering lines drawn from her professional role while her eyes were pleading with her husband. That happens, and Amy B. played that beautifully; we know that Laurie's right, yet she barely sounded credible because she was so defensive and vulnerable. Also, the storyline may be saving her reveal of the picture to John for a later time: in private. Though by then, there's no telling what that picture will look like to John, or to us.

[Milburn Stone]

Loved the episode. The guy playing "God" seemed eerily familiar, but it took me a while to place him. Then I realized--Lt. Dennis Box (Bill Camp) from The Night Of! I didn't see the credits, but I'm sure of it. That voice.

[Juliegirlj]

The naked sailor that detonated the nuke could be a callback to "Adorn yourself", when Kevin had to choose his clothing to match his task?

[WearyTraveler]

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

I know. Under the gun, Laurie blurted a pressured explanation of how and why Kevin was delusional -- you could see Matt mentally capturing the video, adding the chyron Psychobabble, and sending it to John and Michael. 

But two things. In the shock of the moment, Laurie was focused, poignantly, on trying to lessen John's pain and feeling of betrayal: that mattered to her more than proving she was right and Matt was wrong about whether Kevin was delusional. She wasn't really addressing the point about Evie; her mouth was reflexively delivering lines drawn from her professional role while her eyes were pleading with her husband. That happens, and Amy B. played that beautifully; we know that Laurie's right, yet she barely sounded credible because she was so defensive and vulnerable. Also, the storyline may be saving her reveal of the picture to John for a later time: in private. Though by then, there's no telling what that picture will look like to John, or to us.

Except that I think categorically proving to John that Kevin did not, in fact, see Evie, would have gone a great distance in lessening John's pain: "Look, Kevin took a picture of the girl he saw and sent it to me.  Clearly, it's not Evie, so, I didn't want to mention this to you and bring up all the pain you feel about her to the surface again"

Voilá!

[Milburn Stone]

52 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

Except that I think categorically proving to John that Kevin did not, in fact, see Evie, would have gone a great distance in lessening John's pain: "Look, Kevin took a picture of the girl he saw and sent it to me.  Clearly, it's not Evie, so, I didn't want to mention this to you and bring up all the pain you feel about her to the surface again"

Voilá!

It sounds logical--except would John buy that, or would he instead be thinking, "Whatever the hell is happening also has the power to change an iPhone picture into something else."

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Loved the episode. The guy playing "God" seemed eerily familiar, but it took me a while to place him. Then I realized--Lt. Dennis Box (Bill Camp) from The Night Of! I didn't see the credits, but I'm sure of it. That voice.

For a little while, when he was at a distance, I thought he was Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Then when Matt saw him close-up, and he spoke, I realized it wasn't him.

[Pallas]

7 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Except that I think categorically proving to John that Kevin did not, in fact, see Evie, would have gone a great distance in lessening John's pain: "Look, Kevin took a picture of the girl he saw and sent it to me.  Clearly, it's not Evie, so, I didn't want to mention this to you and bring up all the pain you feel about her to the surface again"

Voilá!

Absolutely: showing John the photo would have been the best move; it would probably helped him more than anything. But as I see it, in the moment, Laurie was too shaken by Matt's revelation (and betrayal) to make her best move. She was too ashamed, angry and afraid. She was rocked even more than when her patient Patti told her on the 14th, "There's something wrong inside you."  That time, she'd been able to maintain her professional poise and demur. This time, she wasn't: her "Kevin was delusional, you see,  because this and that" really was babbling, as she searched John's face to see how much trouble she was in. You're right that right then, Laurie was at least as much concerned for herself as for him.

Understandable, and that seems to me what Amy Brenneman was playing. And it seems likely that as soon as John said, "I wouldn't have told me either" and Matt more-or-less apologized and left them alone, Laurie then sat down with John and explained, showing him the photo.

[WaltersHair]

Quote

There's also A Boy and His Dog which predates the Island by about 5 years. It's somewhat different, but has some of the same...thrust. It's currently on Netflix or Amazon (I was going through both of them, so I forget which

Thank you! I tracked it down and remember that movie being on TV back in the day (with all bad stuff removed). I remember it because my Mom was disappointed that Jason Robards would be in such a strange movie.

What I find interesting is that my reaction to Matt's potential assault was to laugh uncomfortably, but a Boy and His Dog felt much more invasive and scary. I guess there are few male rape scenarios out there with which to compare. I am very glad he was able to get out of it and at least tried to shame them.

[maystone]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

Absolutely: showing John the photo would have been the best move; it would probably helped him more than anything. But as I see it, in the moment, Laurie was too shaken by Matt's revelation (and betrayal) to make her best move. She was too ashamed, angry and afraid. She was rocked even more than when her patient Patti told her on the 14th, "There's something wrong inside you."  That time, she'd been able to maintain her professional poise and demur. This time, she wasn't: her "Kevin was delusional, you see,  because this and that" really was babbling, as she searched John's face to see how much trouble she was in. You're right that right then, Laurie was at least as much concerned for herself as for him.

Understandable, and that seems to me what Amy Brenneman was playing. And it seems likely that as soon as John said, "I wouldn't have told me either" and Matt more-or-less apologized and left them alone, Laurie then sat down with John and explained, showing him the photo.

Honestly? I just figured that she'd deleted the pic from her phone rather than having to explain it to John if he ever saw it. But I like your explanation, too!

[RedHackle]

This episode reminded me a lot of "Seeking a Friend for the End of the World". I have no doubt that were the end of the world coming, there would be a lot of this type of "oh well, no reason to continue with social norms, all the old reasons for maintaining impulse control are null and void so let's just do everything." But the almost-gang rape of Matt made my heart stop.  That scene captured the sickening brutality in a way that many filmed rape-scenes often miss.

I have to say, there was a great deal of satisfaction for me in watching a lying narcissist in a red ball cap getting torn apart by a wild animal. Just saying.

Whatever else you can say, this show is never boring. My eyes are watering and my heart is pounding after every single episode.

[garyvp]

Prediction :Kevin Sr., Grace, and company shall kill Kevin Jr who shall arise from the dead in Miracle on the day of the seven year anniversary of the Departure.

Edited May 19, 2017 by garyvp
typo

[Cardie]

I thought one of the news reporters said that the nuke landed on an uninhabited island in the South Pacific. Did I misconstrue that?

The Leftovers has with an accelerating pace deliberately not made any sense throughout its run. The Sudden Departure ripped the epistemological foundations out from under everyone on Earth at the same time. Why are people acting in these weird ways? Because they can--and figure they might as well, since nothing seems to mean anything any more. It's a mad world indeed. The storytelling works to make us, the audience, feel as unmoored as all the characters we observe whose antics make us scratch our heads.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Cardie said:

I thought one of the news reporters said that the nuke landed on an uninhabited island in the South Pacific. Did I misconstrue that?

That's what I heard as well.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On May 19, 2017 at 2:34 PM, garyvp said:

Prediction :Kevin Sr., Grace, and company shall kill Kevin Jr who shall arise from the dead in Miracle on the day of the seven year anniversary of the Departure.

Will David Burton also rise from the dead again? 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Quote

Prediction :Kevin Sr., Grace, and company shall kill Kevin Jr who shall arise from the dead in Miracle on the day of the seven year anniversary of the Departure.

Will David Burton also rise from the dead again? 

—If so, I hope we get to see Matt seeing David Burton. But I doubt we'll even find out why DB threw the nameless guy overboard to his death.

[Pallas]

One thing that seems true is that David Burton really did break his neck (survive by a miracle) because there he was in Netherland, handing out successive ultimatums to Kevin: die this way or that?; sing-and-go or sulk-and-stay?  One question is, does that mean Burton "died" around the same time(s) as Kevin, or do those who return to the world leave a shade behind in purgatory? Is there a shade of Kevin Garvey now crashing into the cars of newly-arrived dead, then asking for their license and registration?

I wonder if, with the seventh anniversary upon us, the two worlds are beginning to bleed together a little. Burton's throwing the man overboard/Grace's dunking the wrong Kevin = Virgil's sending Kevin to drown himself and Kevin's pushing Patti down a well. Burton's brutal insight with Kevin on the bridge = Burton's with Matt/Kevin's with John three years ago, and with Nora the night before; the near-dead emerging from the underworld with new vision into the subconscious of the living. 

Of course, these mirrors only reflect "events" experienced by Kevin, which we oversaw. But that still means his visions are now beginning to come to life on the surface, in the world we share. That's something. And maybe the point of the insight brought back from purgatory isn't that it's searing. In the same way that the point of Kevin's pushing a girl down a well isn't that Kevin pushed a girl down a well. Patti didn't die when Kevin pushed her down the well. Kevin didn't live when he pushed Patti down the well. Patti died and Kevin lived when he climbed in after the adult Patti, and gave her comfort. He followed no plan. He knew no reason. He offered no counsel or parable. He fed and healed her poor sick soul.

Maybe Wayne was right. And Matt, too, who untied David Burton so he could receive his touch, only to be denied with a sarcastic snap. The lion touched Burton though.

[Juliegirlj]

I predict Kevin will be killed again, going on a journey to the other side, but this time, won't return. Nora will be left, possibly with a child, to live out her life in Australia. Matt will reunite with Mary and Noah until his death. The rest just go on with their lives. Ends tied up for the characters but no real answers to the big questions.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, Juliegirlj said:

I predict Kevin will be killed again, going on a journey to the other side, but this time, won't return. Nora will be left, possibly with a child, to live out her life in Australia. Matt will reunite with Mary and Noah until his death. The rest just go on with their lives. Ends tied up for the characters but no real answers to the big questions.

Will there be a cave involved?

[vendredi3]

I certainly picked the wrong episode to watch on my iPad in a crowded airport terminal. :/

[Uncle Milty]

There's so much depth to everything in this series. I enjoying reading all the great observations here.  I have one to add:

In Season 2, episode one-Axis Mundi, the man on the tower gives Michael Murphy a letter to mail. That letter is addressed to David Burton. How did the man in the Tower-with no other connection to the outside world, (aside from that bucket and rope) know about David Burton?  Probably something that will never be explained, anymore than my forever wondering who were those women in the car that rolls up to Kevin in "Meet The Garveys" and asks him if he's "ready"--as if they knew him.  But "Tower-Man" sending that letter to Burton does suggest some strange metaphysical connections.  And, until this episode, one could not put a face to the name "David Burton."  So then to see that this is the same fellow Kevin encountered in both journeys to the other side?...Well....Like I first wrote-there's so much depth to everything in this series. -And it's so finely interwoven as any great tapestry is.

[Ronin Jackson]

Was there any narrative significance to the opening scene with the sailor? Or was it purely some kind of metaphor?