Season 13 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

[MMC]

6 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

I can see that, actually. But then again, back in Season 6, there was that horrid storyline with Morgan and Ellie Spicer that never got anywhere and basically never happened. So we might get another episode about Reid (two episodes with some focus on Reid, can you imagine? Messer is so generous). 

But I agree it would not make sense for Reid to adopt the baby if it's not his. I would imagine that it would take some time for Cat's parental rights to be terminated even though there is no doubt they would be, then social services might want to identify the biological father's family, and if no one is willing to take the child, then it goes into foster care until it can be adopted. Even in situations where an infant is placed with a foster family shortly after birth, it could take over a year before the adoption can be finalized. 

Reid would have to jump through hoops if he really wanted to adopt Cat's baby.  IMO, they would not be particularly interesting hoops to watch on TV either. 

My heart sinks a little at this news. Lucky is one of my favorite episodes ever, and I love, love how they ended it. I have extremely little faith in the current batch of writers so I'm just expecting they botch this entirely. 

This episode is probably one of my favorite non Reid episodes. Because it was written during a time when the show allowed us to use our imagination way more than they do today. In fact this particular episode shocked the hell out of me by merely putting a few simple words in the script.  "And so is Tracy Lambert"  

One of my concerns is they are going to make it all about Garcia. Yes I know that she was shot at the very end of Lucky. But I also remember distinctively that there was no connection whatsoever between the Floyd character and her shooting. Unfortunately with Messer and this bunch I can't say that I would even be surprised, let alone shocked, if this episode ends up being written as though there had been. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by MMC

[Hotchgirl18]

3 hours ago, MMC said:

This episode is probably one of my favorite non Reid episodes. Because it was written during a time when the show allowed us to use our imagination way more than they do today. In fact this particular episode shocked the hell out of me by merely putting a few simple words in the script.  "And so is Tracy Lambert"  

One of my concerns is they are going to make it all about Garcia. Yes I know that she was shot at the very end of Lucky. But I also remember distinctively that there was no connection whatsoever between the Floyd character and her shooting. Unfortunately with Messer and this bunch I can't say that I would even be surprised, let alone shocked, if this episode ends up being written as though there had been. 

I do not want to see whiny baby Garcia. But Messer has the brain of a chicken and doesn't know anything about continuity. Actually, a chicken could probably do it better. 

[Willowy]

The back half of last season was all Reid (and I loved it!). Not sure that the "neglected Reid" observation holds water.

[Mislav]

4 hours ago, Willowy said:

The back half of last season was all Reid (and I loved it!). Not sure that the "neglected Reid" observation holds water.

Well, he didn't have any really "new" character arcs or development. Writers just tortured him some more, like they did with Tobias Hankel, and Maeve's death, and Gideon's death. Making him happy for once, maybe exploring his private life, would have been much more interesting. Things like giving him a love interest, or simply a friend outside of the team. Even Rossi has a daughter, a granddaughter, and a love interest, for God's sake! How about actually doing something with the character (Spencer) once you give him more screen time? Pretty much nothing new has happened to him from season nine. Then his mother got Alzheimer's, but he managed to obtain an experimental cure. Then he was framed and he went to prison. He is out now. And... now what? Same old? Or maybe he will have to deal with even more traumas now. Possibly even PTSD. Fun. *sarcasm*

[normasm]

The back half of last season was half Reid. Just the last 2 episodes were Reid. To do that, they made him make stupid choices that Reid never would have made (dosing his mother with stuff he didn't know the ingredients of, going to Mexico to get the stuff, which he wouldn't have done in any stretch of the imagination, having him keep his mother at his house, which a rational person would have known wouldn't be tenable with her medical conditions). The BAU was next to no help, his lawyer was incompetent, and there was an FBI mole that helped make it all happen.

If TPTB wanted to make Reid "grow" they could simply have had him bring his mother nearby, and show the strain he would have felt dealing with her closely. Maybe Scratch could have gotten to him through her, and the drama would have been just as awful for the character, but less soapy.

If they do not have a PTSD outcome for this over-the-top storyline of last season (which i enjoyed watching only because MGG gave us some good acting and was finally acknowledged as important to the fandom), it will be a big time cheat. He cannot go back to just being Dr. Reid after someone (the higher-ups) in the FBI sold his info to Cat and refused to help him out of a dangerous situation.

I wouldn't go back. Not automatically. They would have to completely exonerate me, and then BEG ME.

[ReidFan]

Norm is right.

I edited all the prison sequences together, deleting the (boring) cases of the week of all those  episodes (12.14 through 12.20) to include just the Reid wrongfully in prison scenes. A CM episode is typically between 42 and 45 minutes long. 12.14 (Collision Course) had 16.45 of Reid content, not all of which was just Reid (this was the ep where he was in court) ; 12.15 (Alpha Male) was 15.29 of Reid content, in the prison as he meets the other inmates, has the confrontation about his missing stuff and first meets Calvin. The other four episodes range from 6.31 to 8.49 of Reid content, hardly "half the episode". 

Red Light and Green Light were heavy Reid centric episodes (and coincidentally, IMO, the two best of the season).

and I cannot tell you how great it is to watch those episodes, just the Reid sequences O:-) without having to suffer through Tatum O'Neal and the vampire and the sundial and........

[JMO]

24 minutes ago, normasm said:

The back half of last season was half Reid. Just the last 2 episodes were Reid. To do that, they made him make stupid choices that Reid never would have made (dosing his mother with stuff he didn't know the ingredients of, going to Mexico to get the stuff, which he wouldn't have done in any stretch of the imagination, having him keep his mother at his house, which a rational person would have known wouldn't be tenable with her medical conditions). The BAU was next to no help, his lawyer was incompetent, and there was an FBI mole that helped make it all happen.

If TPTB wanted to make Reid "grow" they could simply have had him bring his mother nearby, and show the strain he would have felt dealing with her closely. Maybe Scratch could have gotten to him through her, and the drama would have been just as awful for the character, but less soapy.

If they do not have a PTSD outcome for this over-the-top storyline of last season (which i enjoyed watching only because MGG gave us some good acting and was finally acknowledged as important to the fandom), it will be a big time cheat. He cannot go back to just being Dr. Reid after someone (the higher-ups) in the FBI sold his info to Cat and refused to help him out of a dangerous situation.

I wouldn't go back. Not automatically. They would have to completely exonerate me, and then BEG ME.

I agree with all of this.  But TPTB left themselves an out regarding the FBI's behavior, and competence (or lack thereof), by faulting Reid for not clearing his travel to Mexico.  They'll make it all his fault, and deign to 'let' him back into the FBI.  

I do hope we'll see fallout, both for, and from, Reid.  For him, in a shaking of his self-image as one of the good guys, and maybe the acquisition of a sense of danger lurking around every corner.  I would also expect some guilt about whatever his mother might have experienced at the hands of Lyndsey Vaughn, and the obvious fact that he will have to break his final episode promise never to leave her again.  And from Reid, in that I hope he finds out that the team was carrying on business as usual, and not investigating his case, even on their own time.  For me, there is no amount of retrofitting of the story that can possibly make up for not showing the team trying to help him, at the time that it should have been shown.  I doubt he'll blow up, but I hope he festers.  

Edited August 11, 2017 by JMO

[ForeverAlone]

Erica talking a bit about the latest cast shakeup.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-cast-daniel-henney-damon-gupton/

[Willowy]

The season being even half Reid, as you say, is far more than any other character got (although a few did get their own focus episode). And if we take each one if the team individually and gave them half of all the screen time, fans would rage. It speaks to how valued Spencer is as a character that he got the heavy focus and the lion's share of the continuing story in the back end of the season. Not having as much focus on the front half of the season was partly Matthew's doing, as he's contractually granted extra time off now.

I'm always ready for more where he's concerned, so I do hope they explore how this experience affected him, which they've said a few times now that they will.

[ReidFan]

they freakin' better! :)

[normasm]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

I agree with all of this.  But TPTB left themselves an out regarding the FBI's behavior, and competence (or lack thereof), by faulting Reid for not clearing his travel to Mexico.  They'll make it all his fault, and deign to 'let' him back into the FBI.  

I do hope we'll see fallout, both for, and from, Reid.  For him, in a shaking of his self-image as one of the good guys, and maybe the acquisition of a sense of danger lurking around every corner.  I would also expect some guilt about whatever his mother might have experienced at the hands of Lyndsey Vaughn, and the obvious fact that he will have to break his final episode promise never to leave her again.  And from Reid, in that I hope he finds out that the team was carrying on business as usual, and not investigating his case, even on their own time.  For me, there is no amount of retrofitting of the story that can possibly make up for not showing the team trying to help him, at the time that it should have been shown.  I doubt he'll blow up, but I hope he festers.  

Yes, this is what I'm saying, making him make stupid choices the character would never make. And if he festers only, it will be like early season 7, where they make him look childish and petty. He'll probably be told he's lucky they'll have him back (don't go rogue again, agent!!!) and never mind that someone had to betray him in order for Cat to get what she needed to hurt him. Oh, well. Maybe he'll be pretty in the episodes he's in. If he can elbow his way to a closeup with all the stars, costars, guest stars and extras in the frame.

[Kara101]

There was plenty of Reid in the second half of the season. It just wasn't good or quality Reid until the last episode (at least imo).

Also, I'm a bit confused. Why would Reid be mad at the FBI? He did not clear his travel, was doing illegal things with his mother, and by all accounts seemed to have murdered a woman. All the evidence was pointing towards him and it was rational to assume he was guilty. Why would the FBI have an obligation to help him out ? Reid got himself into that mess doing, like Normasm said above me, absolutely stupid things he would never do.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[JMO]

I keep forgetting about the mole.  Hoping the writers don't do the same, or somehow wrap it into the Stephen Walker story.  Searching out the mole would make for an interesting B story arc, if they are so inclined.  While I don't think they were successful with serializing the Reid story, I do think they, and MGG, could pull off an ongoing search into what put Reid at such great risk in the first place.  

Serializing wasn't a terrible idea, but it wasn't well-executed, because the Reid story line, as well as the character, was kept so separate from the rest.  Had they added a little backstory of an ongoing investigation into his case running alongside, or intermingled with, the case of the week, it would have felt much more integrated and logical, and much less like we were watching two separate shows each week.

And, yes, you're right, Norm,  'festering' risks a repeat of season 7, and I really don't want to go there.  I just don't know that they're brave enough to have him really blow up, even if he did a bit of it, when Emily and Fiona doubted him.  I fear that they won't know how to write it without totally isolating him from the rest of the team, so I don't think it will happen.  

[Hotchgirl18]

2 minutes ago, JMO said:

I keep forgetting about the mole.  Hoping the writers don't do the same, or somehow wrap it into the Stephen Walker story.  Searching out the mole would make for an interesting B story arc, if they are so inclined.  While I don't think they were successful with serializing the Reid story, I do think they, and MGG, could pull off an ongoing search into what put Reid at such great risk in the first place.  

Serializing wasn't a terrible idea, but it wasn't well-executed, because the Reid story line, as well as the character, was kept so separate from the rest.  Had they added a little backstory of an ongoing investigation into his case running alongside, or intermingled with, the case of the week, it would have felt much more integrated and logical, and much less like we were watching two separate shows each week.

And, yes, you're right, Norm,  'festering' risks a repeat of season 7, and I really don't want to go there.  I just don't know that they're brave enough to have him really blow up, even if he did a bit of it, when Emily and Fiona doubted him.  I fear that they won't know how to write it without totally isolating him from the rest of the team, so I don't think it will happen.  

I hope they're not gonna try and make STEPHEN the mole!

[Willowy]

I want him to figure out who the mole is. And I want him to take down Scratch...with the team's help of course, but I want that man to get some satisfactory PAYBACK for what he's been through. Reid wouldn't see it as payback, he's a nicer person than me, but I want him to get, really feel, a sense of justice. And I want that criminal to go down because of Spencer Reid and his wonderful mind.

[Hotchgirl18]

We NEED to figure out who the mole is. They CAN'T let this slide.

[normasm]

I said from way back I thought Walker was a mole, but no, I think that'd be a shitty way to go if they tried that now. 

Reid was a longtime agent of distinction, and the FBI would have backed him up until he was proven criminal, for two reasons: he was a stellar agent they would fight to keep; and the FBI "higher ups" would not want to look bad going into a criminal prosecution, they would only take it if it was proved their man was a bad seed. Cops simply do not dump one of their own the very first subway stop. They fight for them until it's determined they are corrupt.

Edited August 12, 2017 by normasm

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Willowy said:

I want him to figure out who the mole is. And I want him to take down Scratch...with the team's help of course, but I want that man to get some satisfactory PAYBACK for what he's been through. Reid wouldn't see it as payback, he's a nicer person than me, but I want him to get, really feel, a sense of justice. And I want that criminal to go down because of Spencer Reid and his wonderful mind.

I would gladly watch that :D. Yes. 

(And yeah, knowing Reid, he would definitely be more upset about what this whole mess did to his mom, as well as the negative impact it had on his teammates, than his own pain and suffering, and would care more about fighting on their behalf than anything else.)

I too hope they don't make Walker into the mole somehow. He came off as far too good a guy for that when he was with the team, it just wouldn't ring as believable. And Emily's going to have enough stress and guilt to deal with over feeling like she hasn't done enough to protect her team and whatnot, she doesn't need the betrayal from a guy she used to work with on top of everything else. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Annber03

[Danielg342]

I think my central problem with CM's character stories that they're all often isolated and rarely involve other team members, except when they show concern for their teammate. About the only time the show has tried to have some dynamic between two cast members is with Garcia and Alvez, and that's more of a continuation of Morgan/Garcia (and is arguably more about Garcia than Alvez) than some kind of novel concept. Every other time a character gets a story they do all the heavy lifting and the other characters get shunted to the side, when before they were much better integrated into the plots.

So while I'm not against Reid festering or losing some of his "innocence", I would rather the show have a story about Reid's fallout that involves the rest of the team. I would get behind an arc where Reid reluctantly rejoins the BAU after lots of arm-twisting and then, after he's back, he chooses to isolate himself from his teammates who are forced to work to earn his trust back.

Of course, I say this and what we'll get is petulant Reid in one episode, made to look like "the child" again before the team has a hokey bonding session making chicken carbonara at Rossi's house that somehow "cures" Reid of his angst against his team. I guess I should be careful for what I wish for.

[ReidFan]

it occurred to me while I was trying (and failing) to fall asleep last night, that perhaps the 'scandal' that occurred to cause the breakup of the IRT (if you believe what Kirsten Vangsness let slip) could be that one of THEM was 'the mole' or rather, the one who (perhaps inadvertently) gave Cat Adams all the Reid info she wanted.

[senin]

So many interesting ideas !! I've said before that some of you know the characters much better than most of the writers in the show, and have better ideas.!! Well, I'm saying it again. Too bad the scripts for the whole season (or most of them) must be finished by now. 

[normasm]

2 hours ago, ReidFan said:

it occurred to me while I was trying (and failing) to fall asleep last night, that perhaps the 'scandal' that occurred to cause the breakup of the IRT (if you believe what Kirsten Vangsness let slip) could be that one of THEM was 'the mole' or rather, the one who (perhaps inadvertently) gave Cat Adams all the Reid info she wanted.

Oh! I hope it was "Monty"!!!!!

Senin, it's probably just the first half of the episodes that are "finished," the rest are sketched out, but there has to be a bit of wiggle room, in case something weird happens, like MP not showing up, or Matthew dismantling his knee, or TG getting fired. 

[Fashionista7]

Season 13 Promotional Poster:

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/08/criminal-minds-season-13-promotional.html?&utm_source=currently&utm_medium=browser-extension&utm_campaign=chrome#comment-form

[ReidFan]

I think that's just last year's pictures rearranged, and Henney added. Paget has bangs now, for one.

[normasm]

Yep. Old

[Fashionista7]

Criminal Minds - Season 13 - Latest from EW on Daniel Henney's Character:

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/08/criminal-minds-season-12-latest-from-ew.html?&utm_source=currently&utm_medium=browser-extension&utm_campaign=chrome#comment-form

[ForeverAlone]

I always chuckle at these sorts of stories. The guessing games they attempt to play with the audience works well with the audience members who don't follow the show on social media or much in entertainment news. But for those that do, this attempt to play coy is patently transparent. And now I wonder how Matt Simmons' reintroduction to Criminal Minds stated in this article will dovetail with what we have already heard about the demise of the IRT. 

[normasm]

This is so stupid. "On a wild goose chase to meet Reid"??? Nah. Reid went to a safe place with his mother and the team went on a wild goose chase they knew Scratch had orchestrated. 

And having Walker be missing is weird as well. If he is dead, just show legs or a covered body like they did Gideon.

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I always chuckle at these sorts of stories. The guessing games they attempt to play with the audience works well with the audience members who don't follow the show on social media or much in entertainment news. But for those that do, this attempt to play coy is patently transparent. And now I wonder how Matt Simmons' reintroduction to Criminal Minds stated in this article will dovetail with what we have already heard about the demise of the IRT. 

I agree. It's completely false drama for those of us who have paid attention to the spoilers and the news. The writers need to get more imaginative.

[Fashionista7]

We just have to wait and see what happens, despite what may or may not happen.

[Fashionista7]

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-jane-lynch-diana-reid-return/

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, Fashionista7 said:

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-jane-lynch-diana-reid-return/

Thanks for the link. It does feel like "non-news" since there's nothing concrete being described, and it's reminiscent of all those years the showrunners yanked our chain with teases about Diana Reid coming back.

Still, good to know Jane Lynch is on board with being Diana again, and her assessment of her relationship with Reid is right on the money.

[Hotchgirl18]

We probably haven't seen the last of that Reid arc. 

[senin]

I agree the article doesn't say much, I guess it's one of these things to keep us interested until the beginning of the new season. I loved her description of the relationship between Spencer and Diana.

Just yesterday I finished rewatching season 1 , ending with The Fisher King and of course I had to go on with The Fisher King 2. And everytime Jane Lynch was in a scene I kept thinking "She's sooo good!!". So I'd love to have her back. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by senin

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, senin said:

Just yesterday I finished rewatching season 1 , ending with The Fisher King and of course I had to go on with The Fisher King 2. And everytime Jane Lynch was in a scene I kept thinking "She's sooo good!!". So I'd love to have her back. 

Completely agreed. 

I love the "Fisher King" two-parter. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Annber03

[Fashionista7]

2017 Returning Fall Shows: Where We Left Off

http://www.tvguide.com/special/fall-preview/gallery/2017-returning-fall-shows/14/

[Danielg342]

Quote

Simmons transfers to the BAU because the IRT has disbanded for some reason -- emphasis on "some reason." Showrunner and executive producer Erica Messer tells us that they have yet to decide exactly what caused the split.

*sigh* Does she ever learn?

I get that Erica Messer wants to keep her options open...but she can't write effective serials if she never knows what she intends to happen.

[Willowy]

My money is on her knowing perfectly well "what happened" to cause the split. They are 5, almost 6 episodes in already. No way they haven't explained why Simmons is joining the team by now. She either told the writer of the article not to publish it yet, or didn't tell him jack squat.

[Hotchgirl18]

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

*sigh* Does she ever learn?

I get that Erica Messer wants to keep her options open...but she can't write effective serials if she never knows what she intends to happen.

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. They never learn.

[smoker]

Is AT directing now?? she has been two half seasons on the show!!
:(

[Annber03]

Looking at her TV and film history, she's got some experience with directing various things in the past. In fact, I'd heard that part of the reason she left "The Talk" was to focus on doing more directing. So I'm guessing that's part of why they're allowing her the opportunity here. 

I'm cool with it. If she's got the talent and wants to try her hand at directing for this show, so be it. I'm interested to see what she could do. 

[smoker]

you're right. But other actors on the show had to wait a lot of time to start directing. Moreover I'm biased about Messer's universe.

[Fashionista7]

Criminal Minds - Episode 13.01 - Wheels Up - Press Release:

it's ON, BABY! IT'S ON!

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/08/criminal-minds-episode-1301-wheels-up.html#comment-form

[Hotchgirl18]

22 minutes ago, smoker said:

you're right. But other actors on the show had to wait a lot of time to start directing. Moreover I'm biased about Messer's universe.

Yeah, that doesn't help my crappy mood. :\

[Annber03]

30 minutes ago, smoker said:

you're right. But other actors on the show had to wait a lot of time to start directing. 

Eh, there could've been lots of reasons for that, too. It's easier to let actors have more freedom to do things later on in a show's run, for instance, than it might've been back in, like, season 2 or 3. And I think Gubler had said before that he'd been interested in directing since early on in the show's run, but I don't know if Gibson or Mantegna had that same desire for the longest time, or if they'd only just started to show interest within recent years, too.

30 minutes ago, Fashionista7 said:

Criminal Minds - Episode 13.01 - Wheels Up - Press Release:

it's ON, BABY! IT'S ON!

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/08/criminal-minds-episode-1301-wheels-up.html#comment-form

Hooray! Didn't expect one of these for a couple more weeks or so. Hoping the specific mention of taking down Scratch means that that storyline will be wrapped up in the premiere. Especially since Cat had tried to imitate him last season-seems pointless to keep the guy himself around any further as a result. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Annber03

[smoker]

15 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Hoping the specific mention of taking down Scratch means that that storyline will be wrapped up in the premiere. Especially since Cat had tried to imitate him last season-seems pointless to keep the guy himself around any further as a result. 

so the time of the year when I have to beg for Hotch's safety is coming xD

I hope they do just the same they did when the character was written out of the show, leave him alone and happy far far away.

[MMC]

I too hope this will mean the end of Scratch. He has outlived his usefulness as far as I am concerned. I wonder how much screen time Simmons is actually going to get. I admit I have concerns. What with the team being out of commission, and Reid not yet reinstated, And Garcia calling on him for support, my worry is the majority of the focus is going to be on them. And that is not at all appealing to me. Okay yes I will admit that it is rather foolish of me to stress about it and assume the worst right off the bat. Except where EM and her writers are concerned I can't  always help myself.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, smoker said:

I hope they do just the same they did when the character was written out of the show, leave him alone and happy far far away.

Completely agreed. I like to think they will, though-I can't see them leaving Jack an orphan. 

[smoker]

11 minutes ago, MMC said:

Okay yes I will admit that it is rather foolish of me to stress about it and assume the worst right off the bat. Except where EM and her writers are concerned I can't  always help myself.

I didn't watch last season, but I read some things and some of your comments here
If the premiere is going to be as you say, the team missing and Garcia and the recycled agent saving the day, it makes sense they got most of the air time. One never knows with this show tho.

The idea makes me think of 24, but it could be interesting if they do it right. As always the key is the writing.

Edited August 31, 2017 by smoker

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, MMC said:

I too hope this will mean the end of Scratch. He has outlived his usefulness as far as I am concerned. I wonder how much screen time Simmons is actually going to get. I admit I have concerns. What with the team being out of commission, and Reid not yet reinstated, And Garcia calling on him for support, my worry is the majority of the focus is going to be on them. And that is not at all appealing to me. Okay yes I will admit that it is rather foolish of me to stress about it and assume the worst right off the bat. Except where EM and her writers are concerned I can't  always help myself.

I don't want to see whiny baby Garcia. And it looks like that's what we're getting.