S12.E21: Green Light

[JMO]

4 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I felt this infantalized Reid, and I didn't like it. Not how it was presented. Reid has handled far worse before and handled it like an adult, Cat should be nothing to him.

If JJ had merely been there because he needs a FBI agent to accompany him (because he's not yet reinstated) I would have been more comfortable with it.

Can't agree with you there, Daniel.  Reid is still emotionally on edge, not to mention he's essentially entering into a hostage negotiation, where the hostage is a relative.  Not only should he not be alone, he shouldn't be doing it at all.  I'm with Walker and Rossi on that.  I don't find it infantalizing---just unrealistic.  But if it keeps him front and center on my screen next week, I'll deal with it.

[normasm]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

I liked this episode a lot, and in the future, I’m sure I will love it.  Last night, I was unable to turn off the part of my brain that kept shouting (or was that me, out loud, at the television?):  Why didn’t this happen four episodes ago?  What, you all just remembered you had these ‘contacts’ in all the federal agencies now?  Are you kidding, Garcia has never tried to look into that ‘degraded female DNA’ before?  What do you mean, you haven’t even talked to the warden about getting Reid into protective custody before this?!!

So, I will wait for the distance of time to watch the episode out of context, and just enjoy it for what it’s worth as a stand alone. And it's worth a lot.

There were the usual errors in logic or omissions of explanation that seem to spike in number in their finales, as they cram way too much into a single episode.  And I didn’t particularly care for Emily’s ‘take a moment’ speech at the end (too hokey, even for me), nor Garcia’s creating her own personal drama in the midst of a crisis. 

I was surprised to see that affable Luke has a nasty side to him, both with his colleague from WitSec and Shaw.  I was also surprised that he has such pull that he could get Shaw moved.  Maybe he should have been the one asking for Reid to be in protective custody.

But the good outweighed the bad in the episode.  Despite cramming it with plot, the pacing was steady and uptempo, but not frenetic.  Despite the frustration of when it finally happened, it was great to see the team actually working Reid’s case. 

I loved the embrace between Reid and JJ---knew it would be a team member, and was threatening my poor TV if it hadn’t been JJ.  I love that she’s with him as he deals with Cat, and look forward to more of it next week.  I loved that little touch of Reid waiting for permission to leave the round table room.  It reminds us (like we need it) that he is changed.  I sincerely hope we’ll see a lot more fallout than that.  I loved that Reid found the message from Cat in his mother’s memory book.  And I love that he is facing his enemy head on.  It will help him heal (because we know he’ll win!).

All that you've said, JMO, and you say it better than I. I double your emphasis especially on the "why are they just doing this now," the Garcia's childish need for attention with the "I'll quit" melodrama, the "take a moment" sap, and most especially - the moment Reid stands at the door, waiting for someone to "let" him out. Kudos to JJ for gently prompting him, and letting him do it.

I will add that one of the glaring "huh?"s of the whole episode is Fiona. OK, that lady better have some daddy issues of her own, because there could not have been a more clueless, ineffectual, reckless and distracted representative of the law! So many questions of why Reid was treated the way he was, why Diana came to visit hours after she was put on the expanded roster by Fiona, all these questions still swirl around her, for me.

Can't wait till next week. I hope it will be as good, and not too much the Morgan Show.

Edited May 4, 2017 by normasm

[Danielg342]

29 minutes ago, JMO said:

Not only should he not be alone, he shouldn't be doing it at all.  I'm with Walker and Rossi on that.

I agree on that. I don't disagree that he is on edge- but the show made him so fragile that he was reduced to a mere kid who needed "Mommy JJ" to come in and hold his hand.

Please. He's a grown adult. If the roles were reversed and it was Reid metaphorically holding JJ's hand, there would be howls. Rightfully so, because I would expect JJ to be more composed as well.

If Reid had volunteered to go in there or Prentiss had asked Reid and he accepted, I might have accepted the sequence of events. Still would depend on the framing, though.

[normasm]

I thoroughly disagree, Daniel, and I was seeing the reversed role scenario in my head before I read your post. If JJ had been wrongly imprisoned for months, beaten and threatened with worse, and - coming out of it - had found that someone kidnapped Henry, she would be beside herself, very emotional, and Reid would be right there, by her side. Not holding her hand, per se, but then, JJ wasn't holding Reid's hand, either. She was shoulder-to-shoulder with him, and told him so. I could imagine the obverse, if it were JJ in emotional upheaval.

[Danielg342]

JJ saw fit to remind Reid, in her motherly voice, "I'll be right here the whole time, OK?", with Reid practically crying right beside her. It doesn't get any more metaphorically "hand-holdy" than that.

[JMO]

31 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

JJ saw fit to remind Reid, in her motherly voice, "I'll be right here the whole time, OK?", with Reid practically crying right beside her. It doesn't get any more metaphorically "hand-holdy" than that.

This is a great example of how two 'eyewitness' accounts of an event can differ so much.  I watched the same scene, and saw nothing like you describe.  It's all in one's perception, which is all in one's perspective, which is all in one's experience, which is all in one's history.  It's what makes human beings so interesting.

[R3volver]

I've never gotten a motherly vibe from JJ toward Reid.  Maybe some of that is due to how close in age they are.  I'm also of the opinion that having moral support doesn't make a person weak or infantilized.  He's shaken up from prison and his mother's life is in immediate danger, so it makes sense to me that his best friend is going to stick by him.

[Kara101]

This was a good episode. I'm a little put off that all of Reid's prison drama seems to have been just for shits and giggles and doesn't tie into the greater arc at all. If it was good maybe I would have enjoyed the prison scenes, but I didn't. If the writers were master story tellers they would have found a way to tie everything in. Then again, they were probably scrambling bc of the Hotch fiasco so maybe I should give them some slack. What annoys me is it really seemed like Reid not being put into protective custody would be connected to the arc but then there was just a lame explanation. But that's more my annoyance with the overall arc and not this episode.

This episode was actually interesting and kept my attention. That's is saying a lot this season. There are many plot holes but that is to be expected. I'm to the point where as long as I'm entertained I don't care. I also hated Garcia's mellow drama in this episode, but I think a previous poster was right and that she was supposed to be symbolic of the audience.

Two nitpicky things- 3rd life happened in 2008, not 2007. Second, Lindsey's dad aged at a remarkably fast rate.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[roamyn]

29 minutes ago, JMO said:

This is a great example of how two 'eyewitness' accounts of an event can differ so much.  I watched the same scene, and saw nothing like you describe.  It's all in one's perception, which is all in one's perspective, which is all in one's experience, which is all in one's history.  It's what makes human beings so interesting.

Reid is already emotionally fragile.

We - unless you've spent time in prison - have no idea how that can play w/ur psyche.  I didn't see it as treating him like he's fragile, but reminding him that someone's got his back.

He's also going back into a prison (albeit a female one).  Again, that plays into the emotionally taught & on edge.

[JMO]

4 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

This was a good episode. I'm a little put off that all of Reid's prison drama seems to have been just for shits and giggles and doesn't tie into the greater arc at all. If it was good maybe I would have enjoyed the prison scenes, but I didn't. If the writers were master story tellers they would have found a way to tie everything in. Then again, they were probably scrambling bc of the Hotch fiasco so maybe I should give them some flask. What annoys me is it really seemed like Reid not being put into protective custody would be connected to the arc but then there was just a lame explanation. But that's more my annoyance with the overall arc and not this episode.

This episode was actually interesting and kept my attention. That's is saying a lot this season. There are many plot holes but that is to be expected. I'm to the point where as long as I'm entertained I don't care. I also hated Garcia's mellow drama in this episode, but I think a previous poster was right and that she was supposed to be symbolic of the audience.

Two nitpicky things- 3rd life happened in 2008, not 2007. Second, Lindsey's dad aged at a remarkably fast rate.

I know it was just a typo, but it made me smile, because too much 'flask' can certainly affect one's writing. 

[normasm]

2 minutes ago, JMO said:

I know it was just a typo, but it made me smile, because too much 'flask' can certainly affect one's writing. 

Hahahahaha, maybe we've hit on the overall problem in the writing room! OK, that's not fair, but it made me laugh, too.

[ReidFan]

bloody autocorrect! 

another victim of bloody autocorrect! :)

 

This happens to me too. Why is it that my phone sees fit to correct iphone to iPhone but it doesn't catch stuff like that?

[Hotchgirl18]

I'm starting to think prison has made Reid more aggressive. I am still quite aroused. He can fill in the gap. I just might have to watch this finale. 

[marceline]

5 hours ago, JMO said:

Can't agree with you there, Daniel.  Reid is still emotionally on edge, not to mention he's essentially entering into a hostage negotiation, where the hostage is a relative.  Not only should he not be alone, he shouldn't be doing it at all.  I'm with Walker and Rossi on that.  I don't find it infantalizing---just unrealistic.  But if it keeps him front and center on my screen next week, I'll deal with it.

Yeah, the guy just got out of prison and his mom is a kidnapping victim. I think the show did a good job of explaining the rationale. Under normal circumstances he could handle this with no problem but normal is nowhere to be found at the moment.

[Willowy]

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

As much as I really appreciated the Reid/JJ scenes, I can't help but feel like the writers were kinda giving the 'just keep on wishing & dreaming' finger to a portion of the fanbase.  That hug when she came to take him home?  Are you kidding?  If subtext was an actual set of subtitles on screen, that scene's would have been in big bold letters.  "These two are only friends.  And she's married /w kids.  Seriously."

My personal bias aside (I've wanted them together since the beginning), to me, THIS is not the relieved, loving face of a "chum". That's some intense love, right there, fingers in hair and everything.

[Hotchgirl18]

And Prentiss is actually being a Unit Chief. Although the motivational speech was a little uncalled for, she stepped up and showed a little authority. Still would like to have heard it in Hotch 's tone of voice. 

[senin]

OK, so I'm writing this after watching twice in a row, and before I read any of your comments . I am kind of exhausted !! I think I wasn't breathing properly through most of it.

This time I really don't care if it was well or badly written, if the plot had holes in it, I  wasn't analysing, I was just feeling. Just seeing Reid back in the BAU, where he belongs was enough. 

When the emotions go down a little I'll try to write something with a little bit more of sense in it. Right now I just want to enjoy the feeling.

(And in about 10 minutes I will start to get really anxious about next week's episode!)

[Danielg342]

25 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

I'm starting to think prison has made Reid more aggressive. I am still quite aroused. He can fill in the gap. I just might have to watch this finale. 

Do I need to [insert thing that can only be said in PMs]? ;)

[Kara101]

2 hours ago, JMO said:

I know it was just a typo, but it made me smile, because too much 'flask' can certainly affect one's writing. 

 

1 hour ago, normasm said:

Hahahahaha, maybe we've hit on the overall problem in the writing room! OK, that's not fair, but it made me laugh, too.

Ah! I should really proof read things before I post them! 

[Danielg342]

19 minutes ago, marceline said:

Yeah, the guy just got out of prison and his mom is a kidnapping victim. I think the show did a good job of explaining the rationale. Under normal circumstances he could handle this with no problem but normal is nowhere to be found at the moment.

Hankel wasn't exactly "normal" either and Reid handled it better than he did here.

I don't know...would they do the same scene with Morgan, who would arguably be even more unstable than Reid is? Or even Alvez or Walker? I don't think so.

[normasm]

Reid handled the aftermath of Hankel better than this? In what universe is succumbing to drug abuse with a powerful opioid to escape feeling the pain and terror of PTSD "better"?

We did not see Reid in the immediate aftermath of Hankel, either. We saw him some weeks later when he was dosing and not very sharp with the profiling.

And what was all that blubbering Morgan was doing in A Beautiful Disaster? Who was trying to sooth and placate him? Reid. If Morgan had been incarcerated unjustly and his mother kidnapped, yeah he would have reacted differently than Reid; he would have been hitting walls and punching guards, whatever. They are 2 different people. 

[senin]

2 minutes ago, normasm said:

Reid handled the aftermath of Hankel better than this? In what universe is succumbing to drug abuse with a powerful opioid to escape feeling the pain and terror of PTSD "better"?

We did not see Reid in the immediate aftermath of Hankel, either. We saw him some weeks later when he was dosing and not very sharp with the profiling.

And what was all that blubbering Morgan was doing in A Beautiful Disaster? Who was trying to sooth and placate him? Reid. If Morgan had been incarcerated unjustly and his mother kidnapped, yeah he would have reacted differently than Reid; he would have been hitting walls and punching guards, whatever. They are 2 different people. 

Normasm, you read my mind here !! (across the Atlantic Ocean). 

Edited May 4, 2017 by senin

[R3volver]

1 hour ago, Willowy said:

My personal bias aside (I've wanted them together since the beginning), to me, THIS is not the relieved, loving face of a "chum". That's some intense love, right there, fingers in hair and everything.

 

Love this.  You can tell how badly they needed this moment after everything.  Hopefully, there's more in the finale.

[normasm]

Yeah, the heartfelt hugs of both JJ and Garcia were great. I hope that he and Emily will have a chance to reconnect after all is said and done and his mom is back next week (at least we hope she will be!). Prints went from making a terrible error of thinking Reid had lost his marbles (kinda understandable, really), then he lost his cool entirely. Later, it seemed he was even angrier with her, if under control. She was all business when he got out, and when she sent him and JJ to Cat's prison. And maybe you can't be warm friends with your Unit chief, but I wish they could be like they were in Collision Course, deep friends.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, normasm said:

Reid handled the aftermath of Hankel better than this? In what universe is succumbing to drug abuse with a powerful opioid to escape feeling the pain and terror of PTSD "better"?

We did not see Reid in the immediate aftermath of Hankel, either. We saw him some weeks later when he was dosing and not very sharp with the profiling.

And what was all that blubbering Morgan was doing in A Beautiful Disaster? Who was trying to sooth and placate him? Reid. If Morgan had been incarcerated unjustly and his mother kidnapped, yeah he would have reacted differently than Reid; he would have been hitting walls and punching guards, whatever. They are 2 different people. 

We're not talking about the aftermath. This is about the moment of peril, and while Hankel broke him a few times, Reid was far from passive with him.

Also, I didn't see "A Beautiful Disaster" so I can't comment on it directly, but based on what I have read, Morgan didn't go into an interrogation needing his hand held. That's a marked difference from a teary goodbye.

[ReidFan]

I love how after breaking off the Garcia hug, he said "Let's go find my mom" and started walking away, holding hands with Garcia.

Maybe it's me, but because I felt that Garcia in this episode was representative of the CM fandom, or at least the Reid fandom portion of fandom, it was like a nod to us, sticking by him.

[Kara101]

35 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

We're not talking about the aftermath. This is about the moment of peril, and while Hankel broke him a few times, Reid was far from passive with him.

Also, I didn't see "A Beautiful Disaster" so I can't comment on it directly, but based on what I have read, Morgan didn't go into an interrogation needing his hand held. That's a marked difference from a teary goodbye.

I think I can see both your points. I couldn't imagine JJ saying what she did to Reid to Morgan. But then again, they have different relationship dynamics between each other. I could also see the team not letting Morgan interrogate Cat at all due to his inability to control himself. I see the team trusting Reid to be able to interrogate Cat after all that has happened and whats at stake is a testament of Reid's strength and abilities. 

I also have a question- how long do you think Reid was in prison for in CM time? I think they try to do "one season equals a year" but they also skip time sometimes. Especially because there was a 6 month time skip between two episodes during Morgan's arc at the end of season 11. However, Garcia still said that the Cat fiasco(aka Entropy) was "about a year and a half ago." If they were going by the assumption that one season= one year, that would make sense bc we are at the end of this season and Entropy occurred during the halfway point of season 11. However, it does not work out with the 6-month time skip at the end of season 11. That would mean that between Morgan's return from his 6 month leave ( Tribute, episode 17 season 11) significantly less than a year  has passed. I do not think that's realistic at all. The time passage would be *one year* minus *whatever time passage between E11S11 and E17S11*. Season 11 had 22 episodes and six episodes passed between Entropy and Tribute. Assuming that episodes are spread out in a representative matter in regard to time passage, this would mean that 6 episodes represent 36% of time passage in a season, and thus in a year. This would be about 132 days, or about 4.4 months. So we're looking at about seven and a half months between Tribute ( episode 17 season 11) and Greenlight ( episode 21 season 12). This means that Morgan returned to work, Savannah birthed his baby, Morgan leaves, Lewis becomes permanent, a bunch of prisoners escape, a bunch of prisoners are caught, Hotch leaves, Prentiss becomes Unit Chief, Walker joins, Reid and his mom go to Paris and San Diego, Diana gets accepted to a clinical trial, Diana gets booted out of a clinical trial, Diana moves in with Reid, Reid continues his illicit Mexico trips, Reid goes to jail,  Reid gets out of jail, all within 7 months! I can't remember but did the team mention a passage of time between season 11 and season 12 when they mentioned how most of the prison escapees have already been caught in the season 12 premiere? That would make this even more ludicrous.

One last thing- Emily just assumed Reid would be re-instated. But he still did that very big "no-no" of leaving the country with his personal passport without notifying the FBI. He was not framed for that. If they weren't planning on that aspect of his arc causing trouble with him being re-instated, why would they even mention it? If they didn't mention anything most people wouldn't know it's against FBI protocol and wouldn't think anything of it. They created a completely unnecessary loophole for themselves. 

[ReidFan]

there is a bit of on screen 'proof' of some of this. 

--Reid and his mom went to Paris over the summer between season 11 and 12. (I suppose the BAU goes on holiday every summer? leaving a lesser unit to do any of the more pressing cases?)

--when Alvez was brought on, they (meaning Alvez and his now former unit) had already recaptured 8 of those escaped cons. We know (they said) Peter Lewis is still at large, and we can assume that Tommy Yates was another of the escapees. Which means 9/13 are definitely recaptured/dead. Besides Lewis, they didn't specify who the other three were and I suppose they're keeping those names for future episodes.

--whatever episode it was they did the initial work on (I think it was Collision Course, but I don't recall), there was a screen shot of Reid's travel to Mexico. Once in November, once in December and once in January...I don't recall the exact dates anymore except that they were all weekends. He took Diana to Houston for that trial, and unless I'm mistaken, I think he even took her to the clinic where he first met Rosa/Nadie (no mention as to whether she actually met Diana)

--his arrest date was 2/15 as shown on the screen. Several days passed before he was moved to the USA. Once in the DC prison, he marks the wall, presumably every morning, while he has that pencil and in 'Into The Dark'  (at least I think it was that episode) there are 36 marks on the wall, and he puts the 37th on. This brings us to late March (and the airdate for Into the Dark is late March) so the show is running in 'real time' in that respect.

as to the leaving the country without telling them, I would hope that the ten or so weeks he's already been away from the unit for would suffice as far as any punitive 'suspension' or whatever is concerned. Although I do hope it gets addressed.

18 hours ago, roamyn said:

I knew it!  I called it weeks ago that Cat was involved.

LOL... I think we ALL did :)

but I gotta hand it to them, right up until the list of guest stars showed Aubrey Plaza, they kept a pretty good lid on it this time.

[senin]

5 hours ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

This was a good episode. I'm a little put off that all of Reid's prison drama seems to have been just for shits and giggles and doesn't tie into the greater arc at all. If it was good maybe I would have enjoyed the prison scenes, but I didn't. If the writers were master story tellers they would have found a way to tie everything in. Then again, they were probably scrambling bc of the Hotch fiasco so maybe I should give them some flask. What annoys me is it really seemed like Reid not being put into protective custody would be connected to the arc but then there was just a lame explanation. But that's more my annoyance with the overall arc and not this episode.

This episode was actually interesting and kept my attention. That's is saying a lot this season. There are many plot holes but that is to be expected. I'm to the point where as long as I'm entertained I don't care. I also hated Garcia's mellow drama in this episode, but I think a previous poster was right and that she was supposed to be symbolic of the audience.

Two nitpicky things- 3rd life happened in 2008, not 2007. Second, Lindsey's dad aged at a remarkably fast rate.

Can anyone explain the typo to me?? Please?? 

[Kara101]

Just now, senin said:

Can anyone explain the typo to me?? Please?? 

I meant to say "slack." I'll got back and change it now!

[senin]

Thanks!! English is not my first language, and it's hard to get things like this. 

[ReidFan]

flask= small vessel to carry (usually) alcoholic beverage in. The joke was that the writers are all drinking alcohol.

I think.

[senin]

I thought so, but I wasn't sure. And I couln't think of the initial expression. 

(Apart from enjoying reading opinions, and writing them , I learn a lot here , it keeps my "English part of the brain" working)

[Kara101]

9 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

there is a bit of on screen 'proof' of some of this. 

--Reid and his mom went to Paris over the summer between season 11 and 12. (I suppose the BAU goes on holiday every summer? leaving a lesser unit to do any of the more pressing cases?)

--when Alvez was brought on, they (meaning Alvez and his now former unit) had already recaptured 8 of those escaped cons. We know (they said) Peter Lewis is still at large, and we can assume that Tommy Yates was another of the escapees. Which means 9/13 are definitely recaptured/dead. Besides Lewis, they didn't specify who the other three were and I suppose they're keeping those names for future episodes.

--whatever episode it was they did the initial work on (I think it was Collision Course, but I don't recall), there was a screen shot of Reid's travel to Mexico. Once in November, once in December and once in January...I don't recall the exact dates anymore except that they were all weekends. He took Diana to Houston for that trial, and unless I'm mistaken, I think he even took her to the clinic where he first met Rosa/Nadie (no mention as to whether she actually met Diana)

--his arrest date was 2/15 as shown on the screen. Several days passed before he was moved to the USA. Once in the DC prison, he marks the wall, presumably every morning, while he has that pencil and in 'Into The Dark'  (at least I think it was that episode) there are 36 marks on the wall, and he puts the 37th on. This brings us to late March (and the airdate for Into the Dark is late March) so the show is running in 'real time' in that respect.

as to the leaving the country without telling them, I would hope that the ten or so weeks he's already been away from the unit for would suffice as far as any punitive 'suspension' or whatever is concerned. Although I do hope it gets addressed.

LOL... I think we ALL did :)

but I gotta hand it to them, right up until the list of guest stars showed Aubrey Plaza, they kept a pretty good lid on it this time.

Thank you for the thorough explanation! I did not read any dates on any screen. One more question though- didn't the lawyer say that it would take about 3 months to get to trial, and an episode or two back Fiona said they were going to extend the time to the trial? I'm not sure if this means they were implying that 3 months were almost up or just giving Reid a heads-up way ahead of time.

I'm not sure if the BAU goes on holiday during the summer- I think Reid just took vacation time. I'm pretty sure Lewis said something to him along the lines of " if you don't use them you lose them" when Reid was talking to her about taking a vacation with his mom. 

[ReidGirl]

Wow I LOVED this episode. It was nail biting and I was hardly breathing just like Senin. This is the first episode I watched without fast forwarding or looking at the clock since Reid went into prison. How amazing was Reid in this episode. He was being proactive, aggressive, thoughtful, sad for his mom all at the same time. MGG was brilliant in all of the scenes. Wow he can be aggressive one minute emotional the next minute. 

And Reid is OUT, thank heavens for that. I am not much of JJ and Garcia fan but I loved his scenes with them. The hugs and holding hands were perfect. I am warming to JJ this season. I am looking forward to the finale. 

ReidFan, agree with you that this was the best episode of the season so far.

Edited May 4, 2017 by ReidGirl

[athelyna]

Quote

One last thing- Emily just assumed Reid would be re-instated. But he still did that very big "no-no" of leaving the country with his personal passport without notifying the FBI. He was not framed for that. If they weren't planning on that aspect of his arc causing trouble with him being re-instated, why would they even mention it? If they didn't mention anything most people wouldn't know it's against FBI protocol and wouldn't think anything of it. They created a completely unnecessary loophole for themselves. 

Definitely a dumb thing they threw in, but I assume they're going with that under normal circumstances that don't involve getting arrested for murder the leaving the country without permission is a slap on the wrist or note in your file type of infraction and that in this case being stuck in jail without access to FBI legal assistance is considered bad enough.

I liked this episode, but still think, as someone who came back just for this arc, it went on way too long.  I really think it should have been about 5 episodes, maybe 6 max with this "Surprise, it's not Scratch" twist - 1 episode with Reid getting arrested, 1 episode with him arriving to prison and the team getting the runaround from all the other agencies, 1 episode with showing Reid having trouble with people in prison/not being in protective custody, the last episode with his Mom, then this episode with the team getting him out because they finally have some actual evidence, then a final wrap up episode.  I thought the entire plot with the former FBI agent and the poisoned drugs and Reid being stuck in gen pop dragged for way too long.  I think most people are well aware that prison sucks, and they could have shown him getting worn down and stressed from prison life within an episode or 2, not dragging it out over 10.

I'm still confused how Reid wasn't in protective custody - isn't that something that the courts can mandate?  And wouldn't his mother - the reason he was in Mexico in the first place- being abducted be reason to show something more is going on and that Reid isn't safe in prison?  When Emily went to the judge, I assumed she was going to argue for protective custody or Reid being let out on bail, not getting the charged dropped entirely.

Also, if they have records of the ballistics of Lindsey's dad's gun in a database, why weren't the murders she committed with that gun connected to her before?  I get the team outside of Reid not really remembering Lindsey's case, but it seems odd to me that no one noticed a string of murders being committed with a gun whose ballistics matched a former hitman's.

Edited May 4, 2017 by athelyna

[normasm]

10 minutes ago, senin said:

I thought so, but I wasn't sure. And I couln't think of the initial expression. 

(Apart from enjoying reading opinions, and writing them , I learn a lot here , it keeps my "English part of the brain" working)

senin, you have nothing but admiration from me, I only wish I could "think" in any other language but english!

[ReidFan]

6 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

One more question though- didn't the lawyer say that it would take about 3 months to get to trial, and an episode or two back Fiona said they were going to extend the time to the trial? I'm not sure if this means they were implying that 3 months were almost up or just giving Reid a heads-up way ahead of time.

I'm not sure if the BAU goes on holiday during the summer- I think Reid just took vacation time. I'm pretty sure Lewis said something to him along the lines of " if you don't use them you lose them" when Reid was talking to her about taking a vacation with his mom. 

initially, yeah, she said trial would be about three months away. But then she came to visit one day and mentioned she'd managed to have it moved to some courthouse in Alexandria which is known as 'the rocket docket' (meaning that things go more quickly there). Then the excuse about the Mexican police needing more time to come up/free their schedules/convenient excuse to move the trial date back when she last spoke to Reid.

I've always had the impression that they're all going on holiday at season's end. I can't quote you any of it at the moment, but I'm pretty sure Garcia mentioned going to London to visit Emily; JJ disclosed whatever plans they had with the boys, Rossi mentioned going to visit Joy.....

[Hotchgirl18]

4 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Do I need to [insert thing that can only be said in PMs]? ;)

As soon as I can get done with juries. Stress stress and more stress!!  And the vocal proficiency exam. Everything is happening on Monday. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Hotchgirl18

[ReidFan]

17 minutes ago, athelyna said:

I'm still confused how Reid wasn't in protective custody - isn't that something that the courts can mandate?  

that still ticks me off, actually. In the ep where Reid was first brought to prison (I think it was Collision Course...) they're lined up outside the bus and the one guy calls out three names, including Reid's. Then that guard (same dude as last night, I think he's Calvin's pocket) calls out and takes the clipboard away from first dude. And pulls Reid out of that line. The clipboard clearly shows that Reid and the other two are supposed to be in protective custody. So, someone -probably the guard-defied a direct order. And why the warden couldn't have seen that it beyond me.

I'm not sure Reid is the type to do so, but on his behalf, Fiona oughta be suing the ass off that prison anyway. The beatings, the not being in protective custody despite it so being ordered and Reid being a Fed for petes sakes........

[secnarf]

9 hours ago, normasm said:

I will add that one of the glaring "huh?"s of the whole episode is Fiona. OK, that lady better have some daddy issues of her own, because there could not have been a more clueless, ineffectual, reckless and distracted representative of the law! So many questions of why Reid was treated the way he was, why Diana came to visit hours after she was put on the expanded roster by Fiona, all these questions still swirl around her, for me.

I thought they said that Fiona had nothing to do with the visit and it was just something that was set up using her name to make it seem legit?

[ReidFan]

33 minutes ago, ReidGirl said:

Wow I LOVED this episode. It was nail biting and I was hardly breathing just like Senin. This is the first episode I watched without fast forwarding or looking at the clock since Reid went into prison. How amazing was Reid in this episode. He was being proactive, aggressive, thoughtful, sad for his mom all at the same time. MGG was brilliant in all of the scenes. Wow he can be aggressive one minute emotional the next minute. 

And Reid is OUT, thank heavens for that. I am not much of JJ and Garcia fan but I loved his scenes with them. The hugs and holding hands were perfect. I am warming to JJ this season. I am looking forward to the finale. 

 

I'm not a huge JJ or Garcia fan either, but those scenes were pivotal and riveting. I'm not a JJ and Reid shipper; I don't buy anything romantic between them, but clearly and wonderfully, they are best of friends. I don't see the mother thing with her either. She is supposed to be several years older than him, so I get where some may see it, but all I see is best friends. Absolutely.

And Garcia just loves *everyone* in the unit like family and probably a special nod to Reid, since he's been there the longest, with her. And he's sensitive and sweet like her. Though I suppose he should/will be a little more hardass now, given what he's just gone through.

[Hotchgirl18]

18 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I'm not a huge JJ or Garcia fan either, but those scenes were pivotal and riveting. I'm not a JJ and Reid shipper; I don't buy anything romantic between them, but clearly and wonderfully, they are best of friends. I don't see the mother thing with her either. She is supposed to be several years older than him, so I get where some may see it, but all I see is best friends. Absolutely.

And Garcia just loves *everyone* in the unit like family and probably a special nod to Reid, since he's been there the longest, with her. And he's sensitive and sweet like her. Though I suppose he should/will be a little more hardass now, given what he's just gone through.

Dear Lord. I hope so.

[zannej]

I would probably have to watch again when I'm not feeling so exhausted. But I had a lot of problems with this one-- mostly because of the whole plot of the arc (not the episode itself) and there were things in this one that showed the flaws in the overall arc.

First of all, I think my biggest nitpick is the inconsistency in how much power the team has over inmates and so forth. Alvez can get Shaw transferred to another prison, but they can't do anything to get Reid put in protective custody?

Reid and the team are shown as so powerless about Reid's situation. Reid is not able to communicate effectively with his team while he's locked up yet Cat is somehow able to orchestrate some nefarious plan despite being in solitary for the past 6 months? Lindsey's involvement really does not make sense. There is no reason for Lindsey to have a grudge against Reid and to go along with this scheme. It doesn't make sense for Cat to have that much power and reach.

The whole thing with the warden and the mean guards is so contrived. And Emily only just NOW decides to go talk to the warden? And the warden said there were orders from higher up to keep Reid out of custody? From whom? And why? Then the warden says that Reid is in no more danger than any other inmate. Uh, Yes he *is*. He's a federal agent. Also, unlike most of the other inmates, he hasn't even gone to trial yet. He is NOT a convicted felon. He shouldn't even be in the prison in the first place. Why couldn't Alvez have pulled strings to get him transferred to a safer facility where they *would* put him in protective custody? Also, from a previous episode, Reid was very clearly on the list to be in protective custody. So, who decided to pull him from it and put him in genpop and why? The warden said that Reid wasn't exactly a model prisoner. How so? Other than getting beaten up a few times and trying to protect another inmate, what had he done wrong (that they could prove)? I wish Emily had put up more of an argument with the warden-- pointing out some of the things that I mentioned. Also, maybe I'm wrong about this, but if the court order was for him to be in protective custody, how could the prison itself override that? And if they did, why couldn't his lawyer go back to the court and say that their orders were not being followed and that Reid was placed in a very dangerous situation and that if he died while pending trial there would be one hell of a wrongful death lawsuit and investigations in to the operations of the prison and so forth.

Also, if this judge was available for Prentiss to talk to, why didn't she go to her sooner (perhaps with Reid's lawyer) around the first time Reid got attacked to point out that Reid was not convicted yet but he was in genpop where guards were threatening to tell the other inmates he was a fed and he would surely be killed? The means they used to keep Reid in genpop was beyond suspension of disbelief.

Furthermore, they believed Scratch was targeting Reid so his mother could still be in danger. JJ was supposedly visiting the mother about every day, so why did she not notice that Cassie was missing and there was a new girl there? I also agree with someone else who asked why the other tenants didn't smell Cassie's rotting body. It clearly stunk enough that JJ was having to cover her nose-- and no tenants complained about that odor to the landlord?

While I get that Garcia is supposed to be a fragile little snowflake about things, I felt that it was out of character for her to stop being productive and to waste time with the resignation letter and complaining to Prentiss about how it was chipping away at her soul when she actually had a task to do that was time sensitive. If written properly, Garcia would have put that aside and focused on doing whatever was necessary to get Reid out and would have been too busy trying to get those prints from WITSEC to wallow in self pity. Now, if it were during a time where she had nothing to do and she was helpless, I could see her wallowing and having time for the letter. But that wasn't the case, so it was frustrating to me that they wasted time in the episode and in actually taking action with that. The whole "If Reid dies.." thing. Well, yeah, he *might* die if you don't hurry up and find the damn prints! Ugh. If they'd had that bit before she was tasked with finding the fingerprints I would have been fine with it. It was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Prentiss giving the speech about them all stopping to take a moment was cheesy and I felt that it detracted from the episode. There was so much crammed in that I felt it was just out-of-place and shouldn't have been there. They should have just been "Let's get to work" and been focused.

I do tend to agree with Daniel about Reid being infantalized. I think they were giving him less credit-- particularly when compared to how other team members have handled extremely stressful situations. I do get to an extent that Reid being in prison in a situation where he had to do things he didn't want to do and being so helpless for such an extended period would be stressful to him, but I think he is tougher than they think. This is the guy who told Hotch he kicked like a 9-year-old girl. I know this is a different situation and all, but Reid has been a hostage and tortured and he still kept his head enough to get out of the situation. Granted, as I said before, these were different circumstances, but I still feel they weren't giving him enough credit and I feel like it was done for drama purposes to try to make the viewers worry more about Reid.

I just got interrupted and have to go make dinner now...

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, ReidFan said:

there is a bit of on screen 'proof' of some of this. 

--Reid and his mom went to Paris over the summer between season 11 and 12. (I suppose the BAU goes on holiday every summer? leaving a lesser unit to do any of the more pressing cases?)

--when Alvez was brought on, they (meaning Alvez and his now former unit) had already recaptured 8 of those escaped cons. We know (they said) Peter Lewis is still at large, and we can assume that Tommy Yates was another of the escapees. Which means 9/13 are definitely recaptured/dead. Besides Lewis, they didn't specify who the other three were and I suppose they're keeping those names for future episodes.

--whatever episode it was they did the initial work on (I think it was Collision Course, but I don't recall), there was a screen shot of Reid's travel to Mexico. Once in November, once in December and once in January...I don't recall the exact dates anymore except that they were all weekends. He took Diana to Houston for that trial, and unless I'm mistaken, I think he even took her to the clinic where he first met Rosa/Nadie (no mention as to whether she actually met Diana)

--his arrest date was 2/15 as shown on the screen. Several days passed before he was moved to the USA. Once in the DC prison, he marks the wall, presumably every morning, while he has that pencil and in 'Into The Dark'  (at least I think it was that episode) there are 36 marks on the wall, and he puts the 37th on. This brings us to late March (and the airdate for Into the Dark is late March) so the show is running in 'real time' in that respect.

Nice recap. One correction- "The Crimson King" (from S12E01) was also an escaped convict and the team caught him to start S12. So of the original 13 escapees, ten have been caught. Now, I don't know if Scratch is grouped within those escapees, so we could have either two escapees we don't know about or three.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Danielg342

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, athelyna said:

 I really think it should have been about 5 episodes, maybe 6 max with this "Surprise, it's not Scratch" twist - 1 episode with Reid getting arrested, 1 episode with him arriving to prison and the team getting the runaround from all the other agencies, 1 episode with showing Reid having trouble with people in prison/not being in protective custody, the last episode with his Mom, then this episode with the team getting him out because they finally have some actual evidence, then a final wrap up episode.

I think I would have organized it like that too. Perhaps, also, I might have a scenario where Reid profiles Shaw, maybe proving his innocence or Shaw helping prove Reid's innocence.

Or even just with Reid learning "the true nature" of criminals, since his only real experience with criminals is in an abstract capacity where he's either interviewing them, reading about them or gathering evidence against them, never being forced to actually associate with them. Reid's an academic, his knowledge of the human psyche and its reasons for its social interactions is completely theoretical and isn't grounded much in the way of experiences, like, say, they might be with Morgan, Prentiss or Rossi. This prison arc could have been a great way for Reid to relate with criminals in a way he hadn't before, but the show whiffed.

[PMPA]

18 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

Didn't bother me.  The show I was watching was the current BAU team racing the clock and multiple federal agencies to help their friend and colleague Reid.  They had to FOCUS and not waste one second of precious time to get him out before something terrible happened.  What were they supposed to do when Garcia was trying to get information from WITSEC--just stop for a break and reminisce about the good ole days with their former boss? 

Except this "just stop for a break and reminisce about the good ole days with their former boss.." is very obviously not what I meant, as I'm pretty sure most if not all will have figured out.  If people really cannot see that it would have totally made some sort of sense to at least mention Hotch and his current predicament and whether or not he could be compromised given what was going on, during this episode, then I really think that peoples reasoning is way off.  Alvez seems to have this super duper contact (although I'd say that ship has now sailed). They really could not have added a line like "oh and can you keep eyes on AH". Its not about pandering to or pacifying Hotch fans, it would have made good sense, continuity and most of all just been a perfectly reasonable thing to do.  Gideon was often mentioned when the story fitted. The very fact that Hotch and what is going on with that character, a pretty important character in the entire history of CM, was such a factor this season, makes it all the more ludicrous that he has still not been mentioned in any capacity.  In fact, they could even have contact from Hotch regarding Reids situation, but hey, Mr. Moore is coming back to fix everything, so I guess its all good.

Was Hotch not a friend and colleague? 

[Willowy]

4 hours ago, R3volver said:

Love this.  You can tell how badly they needed this moment after everything.  Hopefully, there's more in the finale.

Agreed. I feel JJ will be more glued to his side than ever, and while all of them will be thrilled to have him back, I have a feeling that she'll be most thrilled of all. For those that don't 'ship them as I do, at least there's a fair cognition that she sees him as family (literal, not figurative). And everyone knows how JJ feels about fam.

[PMPA]

8 hours ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

This was a good episode. I'm a little put off that all of Reid's prison drama seems to have been just for shits and giggles and doesn't tie into the greater arc at all. If it was good maybe I would have enjoyed the prison scenes, but I didn't. If the writers were master story tellers they would have found a way to tie everything in. Then again, they were probably scrambling bc of the Hotch fiasco so maybe I should give them some slack. What annoys me is it really seemed like Reid not being put into protective custody would be connected to the arc but then there was just a lame explanation. But that's more my annoyance with the overall arc and not this episode.

This episode was actually interesting and kept my attention. That's is saying a lot this season. There are many plot holes but that is to be expected. I'm to the point where as long as I'm entertained I don't care. I also hated Garcia's mellow drama in this episode, but I think a previous poster was right and that she was supposed to be symbolic of the audience.

Two nitpicky things- 3rd life happened in 2008, not 2007. Second, Lindsey's dad aged at a remarkably fast rate.

The thing with this HG, is that this just does not wash. Its a pretty lame excuse IMO, and heres why.  First of all, TG was gone months and months ago.  At best the had planned out 6-8 episodes, and given that Hotch was pretty much non existent in many of the latter seasons, they probably did not have to much to cover.  Brewster was already coming on board (temporarily apparently) so they did not have to do so much to simply give Hotchs lines to her. And man is it obvious. The most significant reason this excuse blows, is because by Messers own words, this storyline/arc was planned way way back. The major plot holes and convuluted story arc, would not have been any more so, Hotch or not.  Although I do think the dynamic of the team would be very different.

Oh and finally, the writing on the show has been lacklustre for a few seasons.  The complete lack of chemistary and cohesion between the actors/characters this season, just made the crappy writing stand out more.  This was a poor season no matter how you look at it.  This arc has been poor, saved only by both the talent and the draw of MGG. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by PMPA

[TigerLynx]

I've only been watching for MGG/Reid, and while MGG has been doing a wonderful job, the amount of WTF in these episodes has reached ridiculous proportions.

I'm glad Reid is out, and I look forward to seeing him get his mom back.  Other than that, I'm not sure I will be watching next season.  I love Reid.  I like Rossi, AJ and Prentiss, don't like Garcia, and I care so little about other members of the team, I don't even remember their names.

What was Lindsey's motive for helping Cat?  Lindsey doesn't have a reason to dislike Reid.