Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[Kara101]

This is extrmemely random but is anyone else surpsired that Reid new what selfies were in season 11 but in previous seasons he didn't know what twerking or Twilight was?

[normasm]

He didn't know what Twilight was, but he knew what twerking was, as he told whatshername, "That's not really my scene."

[senin]

I got lucky with re-runs today!!

Elephant's Memory which I have seen countless times, I can recite parts of it from memory but if it appears on my TV, I really have to watch it.

One of the best Morgan-Reid scenes ever (They stripped me naked...), one of the best Hotch-Reid scenes (on the plane, what were you thinking) and one of the best Reid scenes ever (confronting Owen unarmed and unprotected ). 

[ReidFan]

*jealous*..... I got..... "Proof". turned it off.

[Willowy]

5 hours ago, senin said:

I got lucky with re-runs today!!

Elephant's Memory which I have seen countless times, I can recite parts of it from memory but if it appears on my TV, I really have to watch it.

One of the best Morgan-Reid scenes ever (They stripped me naked...), one of the best Hotch-Reid scenes (on the plane, what were you thinking) and one of the best Reid scenes ever (confronting Owen unarmed and unprotected ). 

Oh Senin, I feel you. EM is my absolute favorite all-time CM episode (written by the supremely talented Andrew Wilder, of course). I never miss it, and seek it out when I have any type of excellence withdrawal. Reid and Hotch are both amazing in it.

[senin]

2 hours ago, ReidFan said:

*jealous*..... I got..... "Proof". turned it off.

Sorry!! 

[ReidGirl]

Hello All,

As a newbie in CM fandom I have missed all the discussions when the show was on its peak. I would like to know which 2 profilers you like the most working as a team. Lets choose 3 favourite and 3 least favourite pairs of profilers.

My 3 favourite pairs are

Reid/Morgan

Reid/Hotch

Reid/Elle

I am still thinking about my least favourite pairs.

[ReidFan]

favourite:  Reid/anyone

least favourite: Seaver/anyone

[Old Dog]

Favourite: Reid/Hotch, Reid/Morgan, Reid/Rossi

Least Favourite: Garcia with anyone from about season 6 when she started going OTT, Alvez with anyone - I loathe the character, Seaver/ anyone - she should never have been on the team in the first place!

,

[ReidGirl]

21 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

favourite:  Reid/anyone

least favourite: Seaver/anyone

Agree with both your favourite and least favourite...

I also don't like Morgan/JJ pairing in our "veteran" profilers. 

[ReidGirl]

6 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

Favourite: Reid/Hotch, Reid/Morgan, Reid/Rossi

Least Favourite: Garcia with anyone from about season 6 when she started going OTT, Alvez with anyone - I loathe the character, Seaver/ anyone - she should never have been on the team in the first place!

,

Yup I don't like Garcia from season 6 as well. I can not stand Morgan/Garcia banter in later seasons and now Alvez/Garcia.  But thankfully she is not a profiler though it seems she has more lines and screen time in later seasons than Reid. At least it feels like that. I don't like Seaver either, thankfully she was only in one season. I am not sure about Alvez. At the moment I neither like him nor hate him. If they show some good friendship developing between Reid and Alvez in season 13, my view might change.

[Willowy]

3 Faves:

Reid/JJ

Reid/Morgan

Reid/Hotch

Least Faves:

Seaver

Seaver

And oh... Seaver

[Hotchgirl18]

Hotch/Reid

Hotch/Rossi

[Hotchgirl18]

What would be your dream CM episode?

[ReidGirl]

14 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

What would be your dream CM episode?

What do you mean?? What is your dream CM episode?

[Hotchgirl18]

6 hours ago, ReidGirl said:

What do you mean?? What is your dream CM episode?

Like what kind of plot, unsub, story arc would you like to see?

[ReidGirl]

1 hour ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Like what kind of plot, unsub, story arc would you like to see?

I would like to see an episode where Garcia's magic computer is not working or the data she is getting back is not accurate or there is no power and all the profilers have to rely completely on their profiling skills.

My favourite unsub(not really an unsub) was Nathan Harris ( sex, birth, death), but unfortunatly he can not come back.  

Also I would have loved to see more episodes with many Hotch and Reid interactions like Damaged, LDSK.

[normasm]

RG, I do wholeheartedly agree that I'd like at least one episode where the computer doesn't work for whatever reason - and Garcia is little to no use, because she's not a profiler. It won't work for her to just be gone, they'd bring in Kevin (Burn) or Monty in to tap-tap away and *presto* - puzzle solved! ::sheesh::

I would have liked to see this with Hotch, but it still could work now: I'd like to see Prentiss and Rossi in danger and out of commission (and Cruz unavailable), so that Reid has to be in charge. As senior profiler, he rallies everyone and saves the day using his big ol' brain. I'd even let Alvez kick in the door as long as Reid was in charge.

I'd like to have Reid meet a woman who is nice, normal, not a profiler, not a genius, she shares common interests with him and they fall in love over the season. I point to the amount of time they spent with Hotch meeting and wooing Beth. Although i didn't really like that storyline, I did like the touches of Hotch's private life away from the job that we got to see, and i would like that sort of story to be (well) written for Reid.

Edited April 22, 2017 by normasm

[ReidGirl]

8 minutes ago, normasm said:

I'd like to have Reid meet a woman who is nice, normal, not a profiler, not a genius, she shares common interests with him and they fall in love over the season. I point to the amount of time they spent with Hotch meeting and wooing Beth. Although i didn't really like that storyline, I did like the touches of Hotch's private life away from the job that we got to see, and i would like that sort of story to be (well) written for Reid.

Ohh I can not believe I forgot this point. Yes I would love to see Reid has someone in his life who loves him wholeheartedly and makes him happy (as u pointed not genius or profiler). At this point he is the only one in the team who does not have a significant other half. Hopefully season 13 will sort that out for us.

[Hotchgirl18]

18 minutes ago, normasm said:

RG, I do wholeheartedly agree that I'd like at least one episode where the computer doesn't work for whatever reason - and Garcia is little to no use, because she's not a profiler. It won't work for her to just be gone, they'd bring in Kevin (Burn) or Monty in to tap-tap away and *presto* - puzzle solved! ::sheesh::

I would have liked to see this with Hotch, but it still could work now: I'd like to see Prentiss and Rossi in danger and out of commission (and Cruz unavailable), so that Reid has to be in charge. As senior profiler, he rallies everyone and saves the day using his big ol' brain. I'd even let Alvez kick in the door as long as Reid was in charge.

I'd like to have Reid meet a woman who is nice, normal, not a profiler, not a genius, she shares common interests with him and they fall in love over the season. I point to the amount of time they spent with Hotch meeting and wooing Beth. Although i didn't really like that storyline, I did like the touches of Hotch's private life away from the job that we got to see, and i would like that sort of story to be (well) written for Reid.

I think Reid should've been the Unit Chief. He's more qualified for it. 

[JMO]

Reid has leadership in him, but he's not there yet.  I think Hotch saw the potential, and would have cultivated it, but I don't quite see any of the others doing the same.  

I think the Emily we've known throughout past seasons would have made a great unit chief.  She's been just average in the role this season, but I blame the writers, and not the character, for the situation.  They've hog-tied her with the team's inactivity on Reid's case. It makes her look weak, and Emily Prentiss is anything but.  

[normasm]

He would have been next in line once Rossi bowed out, if Prentiss hadn't decided to come back. But I think they didn't go there for two reasons: one, since they had to bring Prentiss back and she had been a Chief, it wouldn't be logical for her to just be an agent; and two, it would simply be a very different show (or Reid would have to change in character a lot) if Reid were in charge permanently. I'd just like to see it for contrast, and to give him a new way to shine.

[Hotchgirl18]

I wanna see Hotch back. 

[JMO]

If we get Reid back next season, I would love to see him in charge, in one way or another, for a case.  As I'm typing this, my fingers recognize the pattern.  I think I said the same thing about season 12.  And 11.

[ReidGirl]

I agree with Normasm and JMO, I think Reid is not there yet. Rossi should have been the obvious choice but that would mean demotion for Emily. I would have loved to see Hotch mentoring Reid in leadership. 

[Hotchgirl18]

Rossi would've been a better choice than Prentiss. I would like to see Hotch back. Alvez and Walker fade into oblivion. Everything goes back to normal. And get Reid out of prison for God's sake! 

[JMO]

There's a lot of extra administrative work that goes with the unit chief job.  I don't see retiree Rossi agreeing to sign on for that.  I think he was very much in favor of bringing Emily back to do it.

[ReidGirl]

22 minutes ago, JMO said:

If we get Reid back next season, I would love to see him in charge, in one way or another, for a case.  As I'm typing this, my fingers recognize the pattern.  I think I said the same thing about season 12.  And 11.

Yes I would love to see Reid in charge for a case. Lets hope we can see that in season 13.

[Danielg342]

I could envision a storyline where Prentiss gets badly injured on the job and has to be relegated to desk duty for half a season or a season. We'd then see Reid in charge, with Prentiss shadowing him from afar so that he develops the confidence he needs to be the Unit Chief, because confidence (in his decision-making skills) is truly the one thing he lacks but would easily be something he could develop.

[normasm]

4 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Rossi would've been a better choice than Prentiss. I would like to see Hotch back. Alvez and Walker fade into oblivion. Everything goes back to normal. And get Reid out of prison for God's sake! 

Hotchgirl, we won't get Hotch back. Sorry, that's reality.

[Willowy]

I agree with those that say no way would Reid be leading the team. Not right now. He's a mess. 

We love our beautiful mind, our darling doctor, but he needs to go through some serious straight up assistance and heavy duty therapy, time, (and sleep!) before he'd ever be ready to LEAD our team. Seriously that just would never happen. Not right now.

I want to see him get back up. Get up and fucking NAIL Scratch and Cat and just BREATHE. Other people like Emily, who is doing a great job of running the team right now can worry about that. I want Spencer to worry about his own predicament. And find a way, find evidence to lead him OUT of it.

Spencer not needing saving is my new favorite thing. Please show, let that happen.

Although I do want Derek to pop in and help. Missing Morgan.

[Hotchgirl18]

Reid would definitely be more authoritative. 

 

7 hours ago, normasm said:

Hotchgirl, we won't get Hotch back. Sorry, that's reality.

I guess I'll just have to accept that, won't I? 

Well, I found someone like him anyways. 

[secnarf]

12 hours ago, Willowy said:

I agree with those that say no way would Reid be leading the team. Not right now. He's a mess. 

We love our beautiful mind, our darling doctor, but he needs to go through some serious straight up assistance and heavy duty therapy, time, (and sleep!) before he'd ever be ready to LEAD our team. Seriously that just would never happen. Not right now.

I want to see him get back up. Get up and fucking NAIL Scratch and Cat and just BREATHE. Other people like Emily, who is doing a great job of running the team right now can worry about that. I want Spencer to worry about his own predicament. And find a way, find evidence to lead him OUT of it.

Spencer not needing saving is my new favorite thing. Please show, let that happen.

Although I do want Derek to pop in and help. Missing Morgan.

I agree with all of this except seeing Morgan - I really don't miss him at all.

I would like for the series to end with Reid becoming team leader or getting his own team. I don't think he is quite there yet.

I love Emily, but with the team constantly split up between Reid's case and the COTW, she hasn't had much of a chance to 'lead', and it feels like Rossi is the de facto group leader more often than we see Emily leading. That's the one thing I really want to change.

[ReidGirl]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I agree with all of this except seeing Morgan - I really don't miss him at all.

I would like for the series to end with Reid becoming team leader or getting his own team. I don't think he is quite there yet.

I love Emily, but with the team constantly split up between Reid's case and the COTW, she hasn't had much of a chance to 'lead', and it feels like Rossi is the de facto group leader more often than we see Emily leading. That's the one thing I really want to change.

I do wish for a morgan and Reid scene but as Willowy, I want Reid to save himself with little help from Morgan and the team. I don't want Morgan stealing the spotlight making Reid look weak. 

Lets all let EM know about our wish for Reid to lead the team for at least a case.

[roamyn]

3 hours ago, basil said:

 

The differences between Patinkin's exit and TG's are quite different. Patinkin was unprofessional, but TG was allegedly abusive and violent. I imagine there's a lot of bad blood there. I doubt we will ever hear of Hotch again.

Could you expand on that for me?

I'm relatively new to the show, though I had seen bits & pieces when Mr. Roamyn had it on.

[PMPA]

41 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Could you expand on that for me?

I'm relatively new to the show, though I had seen bits & pieces when Mr. Roamyn had it on.

I'll expand for you as someone who has watched the show from the first episode in 2005.  Mandy Patinkin played Jason Gideon for 2 seasons.  The actor is excellent at his craft but is well known for simply walking out on roles. He did just that at the start of S3.  Literally all the actors, crew etc were sitting waiting for him at the table for the season opener table read.  He just did not turn up.  They called hospitals etc assuming he had an accident.  No, he just decided he was not coming back. It is a published fact that the networks wanted the show cancelled because they believed that it would sink without him.  It is also a published fact by the showrunner at the time Ed Bernero, producers and certain network executives that had it not been for the whole cast and crew led by Thomas Gibson, the show would have gone and a whole lot of people would have lost their jobs there and then.  Even though he did that, he was still brought back to film a good bye episode.  This was the second show that he and TG had worked together on and he did the very same thing on that as well.  Even after MP left CM, he never stopped complaining about how awful the show was and what a terrible decision it was to take the roll. There is no doubt what MP did and yet he still gets the honour of mentions.  TG and what may or may not have occured, is completely based on hearsay and what certain people wanted the public to know, yet no one has any problem with his reputation being torn to pieces.

It is also published fact that for each season that followed, Thomas Gibson signing was the key to renewal, and when Joe Mantegna came on board, both were requested but the prime mover was TG.  This is not fiction. Its there to be found.  

We can go over and over and over about what happened with TG. 'Allegedly' is just that, because the facts, the real facts dont fit.  Although for some, actual facts are not something they want to spend alot of time on, if it does not suit their view.   I am in no doubt that the truth will out, no doubt, and alot of public apologies and $$$ will be making its way towards TG.  Lets not forget also that the other person involved in this, is also gone.  Who is to say that there was not bad blood between him and the crew/cast?

Finally, as for so called "bad blood"...yeah, that does not really stand up to much either.  I'm sure there are a few who thought it would be great to have him out of the way.  For all the others, like the crew that he was recently pictured out with in LA recently, or the crew that regularly converse on social media with, the numerous directors, actors, industry professionals etc who talk about him and too him, maybe they know something we dont!

 

Finally Roamyn, this is a reply to an earlier comment you made to me.  Perhaps it was lost in translation, but if you had read my original post properly, you would have seen that I very much did watch the episode.  I never once said I did not enjoy it.  I'm certainly not concerned about it and yes, I had lots of questions, as did pretty much everyone else who watched it, so I'm not so sure why you seemed to think I was special in that regard.

As for your comment about my apparent "harping on..." - unusual choice of words, given that this is a discussion forum and it tends to lend itself to lots of "harping". Whether or not you thought my comment on Hotch was nessesary or not does not matter alot.  I did.  I see that you are new to the show, so perhaps you are not quite as invested in the characters or a specific character as some of us who have been with it since day 1 are. 

I see lots of comments on the forum on different threads that I feel is "harping", but you know what?, it bothers me not one bit, because that is what this forum is for.  

Have a nice weekend everyone. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by PMPA

[roamyn]

Wow!  All this anti Hotch and pro Hotch adversaries, in the same fandom is a shame.

Thank you, PMPA for clarifying the Mandy Patakin situation.  I believe he did something similar w/Chicago Hope.  That's totally unprofessional in any field.  Personally, I thought his character wooden, and don't miss him (I'm currently on S4.)

Hotch is not a favorite character (Rossi's mine) because he never smiles or seems to have fun.  But I did hear of the situation w/TG last Aug, and it's probably something in the middle.  No, we don't know the whole story, but the other involved person seemed to be unreasonable and have it out for TG.  However, that is not an excuse to put your hands/feet on someone.

And I apologize if I misconstrued that you didn't like the episode, but that was my interpretation of your original post.

[PMPA]

13 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Wow!  All this anti Hotch and pro Hotch adversaries, in the same fandom is a shame.

Thank you, PMPA for clarifying the Mandy Patakin situation.  I believe he did something similar w/Chicago Hope.  That's totally unprofessional in any field.  Personally, I thought his character wooden, and don't miss him (I'm currently on S4.)

Hotch is not a favorite character (Rossi's mine) because he never smiles or seems to have fun.  But I did hear of the situation w/TG last Aug, and it's probably something in the middle.  No, we don't know the whole story, but the other involved person seemed to be unreasonable and have it out for TG.  However, that is not an excuse to put your hands/feet on someone.

And I apologize if I misconstrued that you didn't like the episode, but that was my interpretation of your original post.

You see thats a thing that is often said of the character of Hotch, and actually its not true.  (No I'm not saying your wrong what so ever).  As you continue to watch you sill see how he evolves.  Wait until you see S5, particuarly the first 10/11 episodes. Episode 9 of S5 is widely regarded across the fandoms as one of the best if not the best episodes of CM to date.  It was true team, even if Hotch was central to the plot.  Oh, Episode 18 in S4 is vital to see as it opens the door of what happens through much of S5. The thing about the character is that you have to think about his position, his role (I'm talking about the character).  It was that of the steady hand keeping an often rocked ship afloat, while trying not to break himself even though massive pressure was put on him.  Sooner or later though, the shell has to crack and it does.  With a character like Hotch, when he breaks, its big.  TG played this role to perfection.  If you watch Hotch, TG acts the character primarily with his eyes, so much goes on there, its incredible. Subtle but powerful. 

TG is one of the most underated actors out there, and that is fact.  He'll be back on screen or stage before long, I'm confident.  He's too good not to be.

As for the August incident - I respect your comment.  The one thing I would keep in mind is this. Only two people really know what happened, and really only one person knows whether or not what happened was intentional. You should have a read of interviews that TG and the other person give, and see for yourself, that it really is down to interpretation of intent and the only person who can say whether or not any contact was intentional is TG. Again, I'm not going to rake over old coals again, but don't assume that just because he was dismissed, its a straightforward case.  There is alot more to this than people realise.  For balance, do some research on the other person involved in this, not exactly blameless or lily white.

  I've been a fan and supporter of TG for many many years, way before CM.  I dont know him personally of course, but I do have colleagues who have worked with TG and work in the business, so when I defend and debate the allegations, generally unfounded and nothing more than the latest on the rumour mill spread around, often with nothing but malicious intent, it is not just because I am a fan, there is some background information behind it.  I guarantee you, I'm not some naive fangirl blindly following.  I also know about film sets.  Theyre weird places, not like any other work place.

Anyway, the only reason I am saying this is because you said you were knew and you had some queries about why I made some comments. 

I enjoy discussing the show with everyone, whether I share their opinions or not.  No, I dont watch it as I used to and no I most certainly do not enjoy it like I used to, and its a big possibiity that I may not watch it any more in the future.  I still am entitled to comment on it and will do. :)

[basil]

Quote

Only two people really know what happened [between TG and the producer/writer], and really only one person knows whether or not what happened was intentional. You should have a read of interviews that TG and the other person give, and see for yourself, that it really is down to interpretation of intent and the only person who can say whether or not any contact was intentional is TG. Again, I'm not going to rake over old coals again, but don't assume that just because he was dismissed, its a straightforward case.  There is alot more to this than people realise.  For balance, do some research on the other person involved in this, not exactly blameless or lily white.

I am the person that Roamyn asked the question of the difference between TG and Patinkin's departures. Here's the thing: this isn't the first time TG has had problems with anger issues on this show. In 2010, he (allegedly) shoved an assistant director, which led to TG being forced by management to take anger management classes. During the course of the show, he was arrested for suspicion of DUI after driving through a barricade. He refused a breathlyser, pleaded "no contest", was on for probation for some time, lost his license and had to be driven back and forth from the set for a long time.

He was also (allegedly) often late to the set, and he himself has admitted to losing his temper on occasion and shouting at colleagues.

As to the "bad blood", right after the incident before TG was fired, Shemar Moore tweeted something to the effect that "The gossip is true, and karma will out". He did delete it later, for the same reason other cast and/or crew members haven't spoken out publicly: it isn't professional and it isn't good for the show to talk out of school. Regarding his former colleagues who still are seen with him, part of that is business, and also, it is likely, as with most people, there are different sides to him. As one anonymous crew member said "You never knew which Thomas would show up on any given day".

This looks like a "three strikes and you're out situation. It would seem they were willing to work with TG and his alleged behavior (though the DUI is a fact) as long as the show was doing well, but since it is not doing so well, there was no longer a reason to put up with these issues. 

This isn't the best source I can find, but it's the only one I could find with all of the information I've provided here. You can google Variety and other more legitimate sources that will give you the same info, just in bits and pieces: TG's history with anger management.

Quote

 I also know about film sets.  Theyre [sic] weird places, not like any other work place.

I work on film sets. While it is true that they aren't your typical working environment, they aren't "weird". Professional behavior and respect for your colleagues is still expected, just like any other workplace. Under no circumstances should any physical altercations, shouting arguments, or chronic lateness be tolerated. I think TG is a fine actor, and I thought he did a great job as Hotch, but it would appear he does have demons he needs to deal with.

Edited May 13, 2017 by basil

[Aethera]

Folks, the Thomas Gibson situation has been debated to death here, all of this information has been gone over many times, and we're not going to come up with anything new by continuing to argue. 

[roamyn]

I just caught 'Zoe's Reprise', and I was surprised that it took place in my beloved Cleveland.  And more thrilled that they kept mentioning the Kingsbury Run killer.  The Torso Murderer was a truly horrific Unsub.  Chopped off heads - while they were still alive!  Even the Great Elliott Ness couldn't catch him.  

But there is no Edgewater Channel (it's Edgewater Park, and it's on the West Side), East Cleveland is a separate city, and the east side of Cleveland (and East Cleveland), are poor, run-down, predominantly African American & Indian communities.  There might be a few White people, but they would be poor.  Thought there are nicer parts of East Cleveland city.

Oh, and Joe... it's pronounced Ky-a-hog-a (Cuyahoga).

[Danielg342]

48 minutes ago, roamyn said:

I just caught 'Zoe's Reprise', and I was surprised that it took place in my beloved Cleveland.

"Zoe's Reprise" is the only episode from the early seasons I won't ever watch again. I fell in love with Zoe (Amy Davidson was off the charts in this one) so I was particularly upset when she died. It also made zero sense in the story (well, okay, it made sense but the writers could have made better choices).

One of the reasons why I picked up fanfiction was to give Zoe another life. She truly could have been a nice character on CM.

55 minutes ago, qwerty said:

So, I kind of have a theory as to how the craziness in season 12 happened. 

I noticed that in season 10 and 11 the episodes that got the most positive feedback were "Entropy" and "Mr. Scratch". Personally I didn't think those episodes were any better than the others in the season and I think the positive feedback had more to do with MGG directing one episode and taking up the majority of the screen time in the other.

I think since they knew what got positive feedback they tried to make an episode like both of them. So we got Mr. Scratch, Cat and Diane wrapped up in a Reid plot.

I understand why they would write it, it's a recipe for success, but as a Spencer Reid fan who doesn't like MGG and doesn't find Spencer 2.0 attractive, it was just a huge disappointment. 

I think I agree, to an extent. I too didn't rate either episode as classic, standard-bearing episodes, as I found both to be somewhat pedestrian (especially "Entropy"). That said, I think Matthew Gray Gubler's efforts in both- and Aubrey Plaza's in "Entropy"- did help make both episodes better than they could have been, because I think Gubler's directing in "Mr. Scratch" was off the charts and Plaza and Gubler played off very well against each other in "Entropy".

I also believed that Mr. Scratch, as a character, had a lot of potential, especially in his debut.

The only issue I had with both episodes was- surprise, surprise- the writing. I think both episodes are cases in point that there's only so much an individual can do to raise mediocre material- when it's horribly written, often there is no redemption. As seems to be too often the case not just in CM but in Hollywood in general, the writers are great at coming up with ideas but poor at executing them.

The Reid arc was a perfect example. The premise was a good one- Cat deciding to strike back at Reid, frame him for a crime he didn't commit and misdirect the team by striking in the middle of Scratch's assault on the team (making them think it was him). Putting Reid in prison too wasn't a bad idea.

The issue was execution- the prison arc turned out to be purely academic and an excuse for the show to literally beat and torture Reid, and the team were turned into dithering fools that didn't know about all the things they could do to help Reid until the plot conveniently told them they could. That the arc ended with a bellwether episode doesn't make up for the eight previous ones that did nothing.

[roamyn]

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

"Zoe's Reprise" is the only episode from the early seasons I won't ever watch again. I fell in love with Zoe (Amy Davidson was off the charts in this one) so I was particularly upset when she died. It also made zero sense in the story (well, okay, it made sense but the writers could have made better choices).

I loved Zoe and was saddened when she was killed.  But I really felt for Rossi in this one.

 

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I think I agree, to an extent. I too didn't rate either episode as classic, standard-bearing episodes, as I found both to be somewhat pedestrian (especially "Entropy"). That said, I think Matthew Gray Gubler's efforts in both- and Aubrey Plaza's in "Entropy"- did help make both episodes better than they could have been, because I think Gubler's directing in "Mr. Scratch" was off the charts and Plaza and Gubler played off very well against each other in "Entropy".

I also believed that Mr. Scratch, as a character, had a lot of potential, especially in his debut.

The only issue I had with both episodes was- surprise, surprise- the writing. I think both episodes are cases in point that there's only so much an individual can do to raise mediocre material- when it's horribly written, often there is no redemption. As seems to be too often the case not just in CM but in Hollywood in general, the writers are great at coming up with ideas but poor at executing them.

The Reid arc was a perfect example. The premise was a good one- Cat deciding to strike back at Reid, frame him for a crime he didn't commit and misdirect the team by striking in the middle of Scratch's assault on the team (making them think it was him). Putting Reid in prison too wasn't a bad idea.

The issue was execution- the prison arc turned out to be purely academic and an excuse for the show to literally beat and torture Reid, and the team were turned into dithering fools that didn't know about all the things they could do to help Reid until the plot conveniently told them they could. That the arc ended with a bellwether episode doesn't make up for the eight previous ones that did nothing.

I humbly disagree on both.  I thought the writing on both outstanding.

However, I will agree that the team were "dithering fools", and basically Reid solved his own case (w/help from Garcia running Lindsay's print).  He came awfully close to the Mary Sue line.

[ReidGirl]

I found the writing as well as directing outstanding in Entropy, Mr Scratch and the last two episodes of season 12. Also it helps that MGG and TG are better actors among the CM cast.

Yesterday I said I would love season 14 but after thinking which episodes I would rewatch from season 12, I could come up with only 3 Spencer, Green light and Red light. I think my wish for season 14 is just me not being able to see Spencer Reid going off the screen :(. Unless they can keep up the writing and directing to the standard of last 2 episodes, its time to round up the series nicely and give all characters(especially Reid) a nice send off.

Edited May 14, 2017 by ReidGirl

[Willowy]

I'll give you that they dithered, but they weren't "fools". Their hands were definitely tied by a clusterfuck mishmash behind the scenes at the prison, and the whole thing started with that damnable "6PM" judge (who eventually came through but put Reid through 3 months of torture he didn't have to endure). They were moving forward, legally, as they took Spencer home from Mexico, but then it all hit the fan and they still had cases to work, and keep up with Diana, and Reid behind bars, and who they thought was Scratch... like Emily told Derek, "We barely held it together." I believe they were all thinking of him every single day.

But they found traction and acted on it, and here I have to give Emily credit. She was the one always looking for a sideways entry when the head-on approach fell through. Luke did his part to keep Spencer as safe as he could, and JJ looked after Diana while still seeing to her own family's needs as well as her day job.

I do feel that they should have cordoned off part of the team to work more constantly on Reid's case. But isn't that what lame duck Fiona was supposed to be doing? And she had Emily's confidence. I think the team felt that he was in the best hands he could be, given the crap situation he was in.

[JMO]

In the future, when I watch this arc, I will fast-forward through anything that does not take place in the prison.  That way, I'll be able to think that the team is actively working Reid's case, meeting frustrations and impediments that are heightening the tension, week by week.  I will be able to assume that some of the fast-forwarded scenes reflect his colleagues poring over materials related to his case.  I will be able to convince myself that they are openly expressing their concern about him in every episode.  I will be able to sympathize with his attorney's frustration at the team's inability to give her anything to bring to court.  

But, to accomplish this, I'm going to have to actively try to forget nearly everything that came before Green Light and Red Light.  I appreciate what the writing team put together for 21 and 22.  It was outstanding.  But I am not inclined to cut a lot of slack on what came before.  It wouldn't have been hard to actually write what I'm planning to imagine, and they had to totally dispense with logic not to do so.  I don't want to hear Emily tell me, in the final episode, how they barely held it together.  That's just lazy.  I wanted to be shown it, episode by episode.  I looked really hard for it.  Except for JJ's breakdown at the prison, and Garcia's over-emoting, it wasn't there.  

I didn't care for Fast-Talking Fiona, but mostly because of how she earned her name.  I don't know what anyone could have expected her to accomplish, if only the prosecution was investigating Reid's case.  Maybe she should have hired a PI.  It might have been an interesting additional angle.

If anyone has the skills to actually put together an all-Reid version of the arc, please do so!

[ReidFan]

1 minute ago, JMO said:

 

If anyone has the skills to actually put together an all-Reid version of the arc, please do so!

LOL funny that you mention that. My son asked me what I want for my birthday. I gave him the episodes from 'Spencer' to 'Unforgettable' and asked him to put just the Reid/prison and related scenes together for me.

[ReidFan]

I think that would make an interesting dvd extra, actually. Putting together all the relevant prison scenes (I'd actually--and I suppose I'll have to give my son Surface Tension now too--include the Reid and his mother scenes from Surface Tension as a sort of jumping off point for this whole thing. LOL, HWKEAC thinks it should start with that twirl around he does in his office chair earlier this season. 

hmmm

[ReidGirl]

15 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I think that would make an interesting dvd extra, actually. Putting together all the relevant prison scenes (I'd actually--and I suppose I'll have to give my son Surface Tension now too--include the Reid and his mother scenes from Surface Tension as a sort of jumping off point for this whole thing. LOL, HWKEAC thinks it should start with that twirl around he does in his office chair earlier this season. 

hmmm

Thats how I have actually watched second half of season 12, just fast forward till Reid scenes in prison. I do love that twirl in the chair :)

What is HWKEAC?

Edited May 14, 2017 by ReidGirl

[Old Dog]

46 minutes ago, JMO said:

In the future, when I watch this arc, I will fast-forward through anything that does not take place in the prison.  That way, I'll be able to think that the team is actively working Reid's case, meeting frustrations and impediments that are heightening the tension, week by week.  I will be able to assume that some of the fast-forwarded scenes reflect his colleagues poring over materials related to his case.  I will be able to convince myself that they are openly expressing their concern about him in every episode.  I will be able to sympathize with his attorney's frustration at the team's inability to give her anything to bring to court.  

But, to accomplish this, I'm going to have to actively try to forget nearly everything that came before Green Light and Red Light.  I appreciate what the writing team put together for 21 and 22.  It was outstanding.  But I am not inclined to cut a lot of slack on what came before.  It wouldn't have been hard to actually write what I'm planning to imagine, and they had to totally dispense with logic not to do so.  I don't want to hear Emily tell me, in the final episode, how they barely held it together.  That's just lazy.  I wanted to be shown it, episode by episode.  I looked really hard for it.  Except for JJ's breakdown at the prison, and Garcia's over-emoting, it wasn't there.  

I didn't care for Fast-Talking Fiona, but mostly because of how she earned her name.  I don't know what anyone could have expected her to accomplish, if only the prosecution was investigating Reid's case.  Maybe she should have hired a PI.  It might have been an interesting additional angle.

If anyone has the skills to actually put together an all-Reid version of the arc, please do so!

I totally agree with all of this! The overall impression was that the team were doing nothing to help Reid and weren't shown as being terribly bothered about it. The final two episodes were so great but I was left wondering why they didn't call on all their contacts for help months before, or at least show a bit more concern. It would have been so easy to put something in before Green Light. I wish my computer expert (son) would compile just the Reid arc for me like Riff's HWKEAC because the cases of the week just failed to hold interest and it would be great to see the Reid story as a continuous thing. I tried today to remember any of the cases of this season but, apart from a memory of corpses staked out in a pattern in the desert, none were memorable enough to call to mind! They have shown they can give us great episodes with the finale - now can we have more than a couple of outstanding episodes in a season please.