American Ripper

[rmontro]

17 hours ago, Ananayel said:

Also, maybe I need new glasses, but that third photo from the box looked nothing at all like the Ripper victim to me. Color me puzzled.

I didn't get a real good look, but I wasn't impressed by the resemblance at all either.  The expert said it was a 62% match, although I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.  Two pictures of the same person scored 64%, so I don't know what kind of scale is being used.

Wow, that was a gross episode.  It was kind of disturbing seeing Jeff Mudgett watch gleefully as they dug up his great great grandfather (or whatever he was).  He seemed to enjoy it a little too much.

The way they ended it, I really thought they were going to announce a second season.  Glad they didn't, although I enjoyed the show fairly well.  I liked Amaryllis.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, maybe I need new glasses, but that third photo from the box looked nothing at all like the Ripper victim to me. Color me puzzled.

No, it didn't look anything like her. Also, that type of facial matching "technology" has been debunked as a legitimate method of identifying somebody anyway.

Somewhere here was a decent 2-hour show about H.H. Holmes but it was buried in 8 hours of bullshit. Their attempts to tie Holmes to the Ripper became increasingly desperate, pathetic, and ultimately laughable the further they went along. I about did a spit-take (or would have, had my mouth been full) when they were digging up the grave, and Jeff had the colossal balls to say "if Holmes isn't buried here it will prove he was Jack the Ripper." Uh, what? Those two things are in no way connected. That's like saying if it turns out I wasn't born in 1893 that proves I am Adolph Hitler. 

The show definitely went out with a whimper (with a chyron) and a whine  (from Jeff). I guess the History Channel just doesn't care about their credibility at all anymore. I guess Amaryllis Fox doesn't care about her credibility either. I wouldn't hire her to find my dog.

[ChicagoCita]

I lost the last minute of the show, but I saw that the ID of the corpse was indeed Holmes.

Gotta feel a bit sorry for Jeff Mudgett, who can't theorize about positive DNA.

I was a bit disturbed by seeing the corpse, to be honest. It not only seemed to diminish him (not why I was disturbed, but found my reaction interesting) -- but it seemed so unnecessary to take all his bones and reassemble them. If they were simply "fishing" for DNA, I wonder why complete disinterment was necessary.

[Suzysite]

They needed all of him to check for height, bone trauma, etc. Although the height turned out to be wrong, as did the musculature. Maybe chopping up bodies was heavy exercise.

That last blurb saying the dna was a match with Holmes was so fast and then it was gone.   Like they were so disappointed about it.  

[ChicagoCita]

Ah, Suzysite, that makes sense. It just seemed so belittling to see him all laid out like that. (As I said, my reaction to it surprised me, because I'm very pragmatic about death.) Maybe with so many people doing genealogical DNA tests these days, disinterring people will be much more rare in the future.

[Ananayel]

4 hours ago, Suzysite said:

That last blurb saying the dna was a match with Holmes was so fast and then it was gone.   Like they were so disappointed about it.  

I'm sure they were disappointed - hopes for a Season 2 were surely reduced by 80% to 90% with that news.

[AZChristian]

This episode affirmed our decision to be cremated.  The idea of all that water and mud around a grave really grossed me out.

[mythoughtis]

I wa amazed at Jeff trying to tell the archeologists to 'just hold up their digging ' and rethink how they were uncovering the body. Pretty sure they've done this a few more times than Jeff has.

 

Everything about this show was ' could be', ' might be',  ' can't be ruled out', and so forth.  It's just as likely that evil people were inspired by jack and committed jack  ripper like murders  in America as it is that the actual Jack the Ripper came to America. 

Edited September 1, 2017 by mythoughtis

[riley702]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

This episode affirmed our decision to be cremated.  The idea of all that water and mud around a grave really grossed me out.

I wondered if that was because the body was so much deeper than usual, it hit the water table.

[brgjoe]

Oh man..I was so hoping the body wasn't Holmes.  They did really have me going that he could have possibly escaped is execution.  That would have been a great story in itself.

I am glad they got the DNA tests back though.  I think I would have screamed at my TV set if they would have ended the show by saying either, "Tune in next season where we learn the results of the DNA test!" or if they would have said, "DNA tests came back inconclusive."  I was really expecting the latter. 

One thing that did surprise me though.  As they were digging, they seemed surprised that they had to dig further than 8 feet.  Didn't they uncover cemetery records that indicated Holmes wanted to be buried 10 feet down?  So I would have expected they would have had to dig at least 10 feet to find him.  *shrug*

I still remain skeptical that Holmes is The Ripper.  But I still enjoyed the show though and learned more about the Holmes than I knew before.  I'd probably watch another season.  Hey, at least they are talking history on the History Channel for a change!  :)

[Ananayel]

Adam Selzer responds to the show on his blog, now that it is over.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Ananayel said:

Adam Selzer responds to the show on his blog, now that it is over.

Interesting.  Thanks for the link.

[rmontro]

16 hours ago, brgjoe said:

I still remain skeptical that Holmes is The Ripper.  But I still enjoyed the show though and learned more about the Holmes than I knew before.  I'd probably watch another season.  Hey, at least they are talking history on the History Channel for a change!  :)

Well, pseudo history, anyway.  They failed to convince me that Holmes was the ripper.  I will grant them that it is possible.  Not likely, but possible.  Pending further evidence.

[rmontro]

On 5/14/2017 at 1:50 PM, Arynm said:

I think we have a winner as to why the show has been shelved. I hope they are going to film all this and add it to the show.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/05/04/Remains-of-infamous-Chicago-killer-exhumed-to-test-conspiracy-theories/1601493919214/

I don't know why they would need another season anyway.  Seems like they said all they wanted to say.

[Snarklepuss]

21 hours ago, brgjoe said:

I am glad they got the DNA tests back though.  I think I would have screamed at my TV set if they would have ended the show by saying either, "Tune in next season where we learn the results of the DNA test!" or if they would have said, "DNA tests came back inconclusive."  I was really expecting the latter.

They actually might have had to do that.  I'm thinking getting permission for the exhuming plus the DNA test might have been the reason the season premiere date was delayed for over a month.

[Toothbrush]

Amaryllis reminded me so much of a younger Mariska Hargitay that is was distracting at times. 

On 8/9/2017 at 2:54 PM, rmontro said:

I was actually stunned that the handwriting analysis proved to be inconclusive.  I expected them to find someone who would say it was a dead on match between Holmes and the Ripper.

To Jeff inconclusive pretty much means IT'S HIM!!! And Amaryllis seemed to get less & less impartial as the series went on. Don't know if Jeff's single mindedness had an effect on her, or if the producers told her to get aboard the Holmes = Ripper train. Certainly the "evidence" could not have convinced her. 

On 8/24/2017 at 0:40 PM, iMonrey said:

The most ironic part of this whole episode is that they blew up their entire theory of Holmes being Jack the Ripper and didn't even seem to realize it! After Holmes was arrested he so relished the publicity and notoriety he started claiming to have murdered people who turned out to be still alive. He craved the attention. That being the case . . . wouldn't he have admitted to, or claimed to be, Jack the Ripper himself? Even if he wasn't? I mean, clearly he was eating up all the attention he was getting. Taking credit for murders he didn't even commit. Had he actually been Jack the Ripper that's like the first thing he would have bragged about! And since he wasn't above lying to boost his murder profile he might have even claimed to be the Ripper just for the extra attention. 

The fact that he, himself, never took credit for the Ripper murders or claimed to be the Ripper, seems pretty conclusive proof that there is zero connection between Holmes and the Ripper. 

Case closed.

Exactly!! He also could have delayed his execution in order to work with Scotland Yard and then have a trial in England. If he were really JtR, no doubt Hearst would have ponied up a lot more than $7,500.00 for his story.  

[Nessie]

FINALLY!  An interesting episode...and it only took 73 hours to get here...

On 8/31/2017 at 4:09 PM, Suzysite said:

They needed all of him to check for height, bone trauma, etc. Although the height turned out to be wrong, as did the musculature. Maybe chopping up bodies was heavy exercise.

That last blurb saying the dna was a match with Holmes was so fast and then it was gone.   Like they were so disappointed about it.  

God, when the...anthropologist, was she...was telling us about his pelvis and his height and his musculature and his teeth I was like JUST GET ON WITH IT and then to find out they hadn't even done the DNA testing yet?  *sigh*  Wish we could have seen Jeff's face when he got the positive results.  I'm sure he still believes his theories are true, though.  Have to say I did enjoy the anthropologist's barely concealed tolerance of him at the grave site though (at least, it looked that way to me).

Also, I found it amusing that they were shocked that he was shorter than reported.  He would hardly be the first man in history who has lied about his height or lack thereof.

On 8/31/2017 at 8:24 PM, Ananayel said:

I'm sure they were disappointed - hopes for a Season 2 were surely reduced by 80% to 90% with that news.

*Shudder*  I do have to give Amaryllis a little credit though.  When they were reviewing all the "evidence", she had enough presence of mind to say that as compelling as it was (and admittedly, what they presented was compelling), she wasn't prepared to say he was definitely the Ripper.  So good on her for not tanking all her credibility.

On 8/31/2017 at 8:56 PM, mythoughtis said:

I wa amazed at Jeff trying to tell the archeologists to 'just hold up their digging ' and rethink how they were uncovering the body. Pretty sure they've done this a few more times than Jeff has.

Right?  I was like "just let them do their job already".  Although if he was the one footing the bill (which must have been pretty substantial), I guess he would be justified in thinking he could call the shots.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Nessie

[rmontro]

27 minutes ago, Nessie said:

Right?  I was like "just let them do their job already".  Although if he was the one footing the bill (which must have been pretty substantial), I guess he would be justified in thinking he could call the shots.

Either him or the producers seemed to insist on him having a major part in things.  When they were looking for the boy's bones in the yard, he was the first one to discover the bone, by saying "What is that white I see?".  Or at least the scene was written that way.

[Arynm]

So to sum up Holmes, he was short, cross-eyed, or at least had a lazy eye, con-man, mass murderer and a compulsive liar. Like I said before, he must have been crazy charming or something because none of those things scream dreamboat to me.

Minus the eye issues (and murders) he actually sounds like Tom Cruise!

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Arynm said:

So to sum up Holmes, he was short, cross-eyed, or at least had a lazy eye, con-man, mass murderer and a compulsive liar. Like I said before, he must have been crazy charming or something because none of those things scream dreamboat to me.

Yep, sign me up to admit that he's one of my ancestors.

[Snarklepuss]

23 hours ago, Arynm said:

So to sum up Holmes, he was short, cross-eyed, or at least had a lazy eye, con-man, mass murderer and a compulsive liar. Like I said before, he must have been crazy charming or something because none of those things scream dreamboat to me.

Minus the eye issues (and murders) he actually sounds like Tom Cruise!

None of the photos of him make him seem even remotely charming.  In fact, just the opposite.  He looked like someone you might miss because he was so unremarkable.  The actor that plays the re-enacted version of him seems more like what we have been told he was like.

Oh, and pretty much all the men I've ever known under 5'7" have reported their height as 5'7" even when I've known better!

[Ailianna]

On 7/26/2017 at 2:25 PM, ghoulina said:

I did find the linguistic analysis interesting, but I always do with that aspect of an investigation. It's just fascinating to me. I liked seeing how British English and American English differed at that time.  It seems very likely Ripper was an American, but that still doesn't mean Holmes. 

I thought it was interesting too, but I wasn't convinced.  Some of the things seemed brushed over, and they didn't include anything from the Saucy Jack letter.  I would think they would have brought that up if there was anything in it that they could make seem to match.  Also, it doesn't cover an Englishman who spent time in America, an Englishman with an American mom, or any number of other reasons why someone might use those phrases.

On 8/11/2017 at 9:39 AM, AZChristian said:

I'm re-reading Patricia Cornwell's book on JtR.  If anyone is interested in REAL facts, I recommend it.

It's been years since I read it (when it first came out), but I thought she committed the same cardinal sin that these people did, which was tailoring the evidence to fit the theory, rather than just following all the evidence to wherever it led, even if it wasn't to their pet theory.  I found her research was interesting, but it seemed like she was married to the William Sickert theory early and never parted ways from it.

On 8/23/2017 at 4:53 PM, Arynm said:

I think it would be awesome if they somehow proved that is is Holmes but Mudgett is not his descendant. I would laugh and laugh. Does anyone know which wife is supposed to be his gg grandmother? He has never told the show his lineage. He really needs to at this point, he just looks crazy

I kept thinking, what if poor Clara had an affair and none of them are his descendants.

On 8/24/2017 at 0:53 PM, ChicagoCita said:

I was trying to look up specifically how Jeff Mudgett is descended from Holmes. I didn't find that, but I did find that the recent exhumation (May 2017) of Holmes' body for DNA purposes was requested by three of his great-great-grandchildren, John, Richard, and Cynthia, all of California. It's very possible Jeff is a nickname for one of the men. If so, he is related to Holmes through his first wife, Clara Lovering. They had a son, Robert. Amazingly, she survived him and lived until 1956, dying at age 96. Interestingly, their son Robert died the same year.

Again, I keep thinking Clara had a rough life, all things considered, with her murderous husband leaving her and committing bigamy and adultery, and then being executed as a notorious murderer.

[Arynm]

12 hours ago, Ailianna said:

It's been years since I read it (when it first came out), but I thought she committed the same cardinal sin that these people did, which was tailoring the evidence to fit the theory, rather than just following all the evidence to wherever it led, even if it wasn't to their pet theory.  I found her research was interesting, but it seemed like she was married to the William Sickert theory early and never parted ways from it.

She has written a new one, and she says exactly that. She knows that she tried too hard to make the theory fit and she has corrected a lot of what she theorized in the first, especially the DNA evidence.  The evidence in the second book is researched much better and what she found is pretty hard to ignore. If he (Sickert) is not the Ripper he IS the author of at least 4 letters, that is irrefutable.

[Pestilentia]

I'm just glad it's over. My husband is the conspiracy theorist in this household and even though we both found the show absurd, we tend to finish what we start through to the bitter end.  

Every minute this show was on I found myself thinking of the "Jump To Conclusions" game the guy in "Office Space" invented.

This Mudgett guy just might be the most skilled jumper to conclusions I have ever seen- his leaps were truly astounding.

[Ananayel]

Maybe Jeff and Steve Hodel could have a jump-off, done in the style of a Zoolander walk-off.

[smorbie]

On 7/27/2017 at 8:11 PM, mythoughtis said:

So every instance where an alias of Holmes appears on the ships list couldn't possibly be someone else using one of the same names? 

No, he was apparently using the name Holmes as well as the other two very common names that were sometimes his aliases.  So, I'm thinking he split himself into three people, booked passage using different names, and sailed back to America in pieces.

Hey, it's just as likely a theory as his being Jack the Ripper.

[smorbie]

On 8/9/2017 at 3:54 PM, rmontro said:

That can't be right, they haven't even got to the part where they dig Holmes up yet.  Not sure what that is supposed to prove anyway.

I was actually stunned that the handwriting analysis proved to be inconclusive.  I expected them to find someone who would say it was a dead on match between Holmes and the Ripper.

It wasn't really inconclusive.  They turned over three, I think, samples. Two of them were absolutely not the same and only the third, a receipt that may have not had much on it to compare (may have been mostly numbers) was inconclusive.  But to these crackpots, that's EVIDENCE.

[smorbie]

On 8/29/2017 at 11:56 PM, Arynm said:

It was him! I can't believe I am saying this, but I think I need another season. Lets do a facial reconstruction and really look at those bones and find out everything we can about him.

I also can't believe the lengths the prison went to to make sure that he was buried according to his crazy wishes. He was buried like 10 feet down! That is a lot of work, especially if they had no large machinery.

In other random thoughts I had while watching this show, Lincoln was also covered in concrete after he was buried. I always thought that was the end of any investigation into his murder and/or ailments he might have had, but this has changed my mind. In one part of the grave the concrete had never set and was like clay, in the other the concrete set but wasn't covering his body like I had always imagined it was. Not that I really want to dig up Lincoln,, but this made an impact on me that things that I thought might be lost and would never be explained might not be as lost as I thought.

I am so glad that it was Holmes in that crazy grave. Lets see what happens next!

The grave totally made sense to me.  Don't forget Holmes was a grave robber.  Add his knowledge of that occupation with the a fear of people digging up his grave because of his notoriety, and I can see why he wanted to be planted extra deep with plenty of concrete to discourage that.  And I hope you're kidding about thinking he was Jack the Ripper.

Edited September 8, 2017 by smorbie

[Arynm]

1 hour ago, smorbie said:

 And I hope you're kidding about thinking he was Jack the Ripper.

I don't think I ever said I thought he was Jack the Ripper. Walter Sickert maybe, but Holmes?

[smorbie]

Sorry, I guess it was one of those weird things where the wrong quote appeared or something.  Someone said he thought "he did it" and they needed another season to find out.

As to who the ripper actually was, I don't think we will ever know.  I think he was just some ordinary person, whose name may not even be written down anywhere.  There were a lot of people like that when record keeping wasn't as good as it is now.  

I saw a documentary, and like most of you I've seen a million of them, that posited he was a butcher who worked in the nearby area.  He would have been able to quickly dissect the person, and blood on his clothes wouldn't have shocked anyone.  It's as good an explanation as any.

As to what happened to him, I think the most likely thing was that he died.  He had reached quite a level of frenzy and people usually don't come back from that. 

My guess is he was killed somehow.

[smorbie]

The thing about Holmes actually being dead and in his own grave is, so what?  Where would you expect him to be?  His being dead doesn't prove or disprove the ludicrous theory that he was Jack the Ripper.  It means he wasn't the one killing people "Ripper style", but so what?

This whole series has been a big So What as far as I'm concerned.  So what if he wasn't shuffling property around in America while the Ripper was killing people in London.  There's certainly more evidence he was actually in America at the time.  He was defending lawsuits and there are notes from his attorneys with dates they met with him.  He registered to vote during that period.  He could have had proxys do that for him, yes, but that's more evidence than was presented that he was in London.  All Mudgett gave us was that there was an American questioned for the killings.  So what?

The shawl didn't match his DNA and there's evidence that it's a fake anyway.  Even if it's real, it didn't match.  So what?  

There are big divots in the river that could be concrete.  So what?

He had a picture of one of the women.  So what?  I never got whether it was a newspaper clipping or an actual photo, though.  But even then, so what?  Why would he have a picture of her and not the others.  Also, he didn't seem to carry pictures of people he actually did kill.  Again, so what?

The composite sketch was a joke.  The whole series was a joke.  I kept turning it because, as someone else said, I enjoyed snark watching it.  And, I really enjoyed watching Mudgett fall on his face again and again, and STILL insist there was proof.  What a maroon.

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, smorbie said:

He had a picture of one of the women.  So what?  I never got whether it was a newspaper clipping or an actual photo, though.  But even then, so what?  Why would he have a picture of her and not the others.  Also, he didn't seem to carry pictures of people he actually did kill.  Again, so what?

If that even was a picture of one of the women, which I am skeptical of.  They only showed it for a moment, and I wasn't impressed by the resemblance.  The expert gave a high matching score, but I'm skeptical of their experts after the forensic artist drew the Ripper to look exactly like Holmes. 

[smorbie]

8 hours ago, rmontro said:

If that even was a picture of one of the women, which I am skeptical of.  They only showed it for a moment, and I wasn't impressed by the resemblance.  The expert gave a high matching score, but I'm skeptical of their experts after the forensic artist drew the Ripper to look exactly like Holmes. 

True.  I was doing something else at that point.  Sometimes I was too overwhelmed by the stupid to even.

Another example of this was when they were at the house Holmes rented where he killed the boy and scattered his remains on the grounds.  They found a box and were stunned to discover it belonged to HOLMES!  Quick que:  had no one lived in the house in 130 years?  Had people been living there and just leaving the box alone because of reasons?  I think it may have been planted.

And then they were in the yard and found CHARCOAL and a BUTTON and animal bone they were convinced could only belong to the murdered child.  

What has happened to the history channel?  Didn't it used to deal in history?  

[rmontro]

7 hours ago, smorbie said:

Another example of this was when they were at the house Holmes rented where he killed the boy and scattered his remains on the grounds.  They found a box and were stunned to discover it belonged to HOLMES!  Quick que:  had no one lived in the house in 130 years?  Had people been living there and just leaving the box alone because of reasons?  I think it may have been planted.

It could have been untouched in an attic somewhere, but good point.  It does sound suspicious.  I'm not willing to take anything this show tells us at face value.

[smorbie]

So I've done some intense research on this idiot, Mudgett (well, I read a few web sites after startpaging his name).  This is like his third big stab at making money off a dead relative trying to prove his crackpot theory.

He has said that his heritage was a family secret and his mother only revealed it to him about twenty years ago.  The truth is his mother did a family genealogy and there it was.  Not really a "secret" so much as something just not known, I guess.

Then he wrote a whole book filled with the idiocy of this in which he revealed that the spirit of his great great grandfather was appearing to him wanting him to start fulfilling his legacy by killing people.  uh huh.

He did somewhat of a lecture tour where he spoke to tens of people about his silly theory.

Now, he somehow got this silly show from the no-longer real history channel.

It all seems a bit contrived now, doesn't it?  And yet, at the same time, he really does seem to believe it.  I snark watched this show for the actual Holmes story, which is interesting, but didn't seem fleshed out.  I also hate watched it (which I seldom do) because it was fun watching him fail again and again and again, and still keep punching.  "Dang it!  There's a pony in there somewhere!"

Oh just to be thorough, let me detail my research source:  The interwebs.

[Toothbrush]

4 hours ago, smorbie said:

So I've done some intense research on this idiot, Mudgett (well, I read a few web sites after startpaging his name).  This is like his third big stab at making money off a dead relative trying to prove his crackpot theory.

He has said that his heritage was a family secret and his mother only revealed it to him about twenty years ago.  The truth is his mother did a family genealogy and there it was.  Not really a "secret" so much as something just not known, I guess.

Then he wrote a whole book filled with the idiocy of this in which he revealed that the spirit of his great great grandfather was appearing to him wanting him to start fulfilling his legacy by killing people.  uh huh.

He did somewhat of a lecture tour where he spoke to tens of people about his silly theory.

Now, he somehow got this silly show from the no-longer real history channel.

It all seems a bit contrived now, doesn't it?  And yet, at the same time, he really does seem to believe it.  I snark watched this show for the actual Holmes story, which is interesting, but didn't seem fleshed out.  I also hate watched it (which I seldom do) because it was fun watching him fail again and again and again, and still keep punching.  "Dang it!  There's a pony in there somewhere!"

Oh just to be thorough, let me detail my research source:  The interwebs.

 I snorted while reading this, especially the bolded parts. Too funny! 

If my mother had come across a serial killer in our family tree, that branch would be permanently chopped off without anyone knowing about it. And if I tried to make said murderous ancestor into a career, while trying to prove that he was an even more infamous serial killer, she would have built her own murder castle and locked my ass in until the end of time. 

[smorbie]

IKR?  I'm torn between thinking he's just kind of unhinged and actually believes this shi stuff, and thinking he's just an opportunist with a nutty theory who has somehow gotten a network's attention.

The real question here is what on earth happened to the History Channel?  Once upon a time they did real history.  Now, they are BIG into revisionism and these phony investigation stories. I know you can't trust the history you see on there anymore, but this...this...this...was just...beyond anything I ever thought they were capable of.  How they greenlighted this loser is the mystery.  They should investigate that.

Edited September 27, 2017 by smorbie

[rmontro]

15 hours ago, smorbie said:

Then he wrote a whole book filled with the idiocy of this in which he revealed that the spirit of his great great grandfather was appearing to him wanting him to start fulfilling his legacy by killing people.  uh huh.

Now that is disturbing.  So he's basically hearing voices telling him to kill people.  No wonder I got such a creepy vibe off of him.  If I was Amaryllis, I would have been leery of spending time alone with the guy.

[riley702]

See, I don't believe that, though. It's more than likely just something he said to make his pitched story sound more interesting (he thought).

[smorbie]

I'm with you, Riley.  So, here's this guy bumbling through life, right?  Then, mom finds something interesting in the old family genealogy.  And SUDDENLY the spirit of his ancestor starts appearing to him.  What, had Holmes just had his genealogy done, too?  If Mudgett were genuinely being haunted, it would have happened without his knowing who the spirit was.  It was just garbage Mudgett made up to try to get someone interested in a book he wrote about someone he just happened to be related to.

When he got the idea to tie that to the Ripper, I don't know.  But, I have a hard time believing anyone would take that theory seriously.  But, but, but, he wasn't quitclaiming houses for the whole few weeks the Ripper was killing in White Chapel.

Well, there you go.  That's solid proof is what that is.  Come to think of, I can't prove where I was when Hoffa went missing....Hmmm

"Hello, is this the History Channel?  Yeah, I think I might be able to prove I did away with Hoffa.  Seven million dollars and a ten-week television deal with options for additional seasons, you say?  Great!  Let me call Amaryrillis!"

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

Now that is disturbing.  So he's basically hearing voices telling him to kill people.  No wonder I got such a creepy vibe off of him.  If I was Amaryllis, I would have been leery of spending time alone with the guy.

Yeah, I got a creepy vibe from him, too.  Couldn't believe he's a lawyer.  

Edited September 27, 2017 by smorbie

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, smorbie said:

Well, there you go.  That's solid proof is what that is.  Come to think of, I can't prove where I was when Hoffa went missing....Hmmm

And we have our next special. Where Smorbie Buried Hoffa: but only because some dead relative said to, during a rainstorm in which Smorbie's backyard was swamped and a strange bone rose to the surface.

 

2 hours ago, smorbie said:

Then, mom finds something interesting in the old family genealogy.  And SUDDENLY the spirit of his ancestor starts appearing to him.  What, had Holmes just had his genealogy done, too? 

Yeah, that part got me too. Was Holmes just hanging out in the afterlife waiting for one of his idiot relatives to discover the connection so he could show up and play ghost?

I think the Ripper connection was just because the whole related to Holmes thing wasn't bringing in enough money. Only true crime history buffs know about Holmes but everybody knows Jack the Ripper. That's where the real money is. lol

[smorbie]

43 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

And we have our next special. Where Smorbie Buried Hoffa: but only because some dead relative said to, during a rainstorm in which Smorbie's backyard was swamped and a strange bone rose to the surface.

 

Yeah, that part got me too. Was Holmes just hanging out in the afterlife waiting for one of his idiot relatives to discover the connection so he could show up and play ghost?

I think the Ripper connection was just because the whole related to Holmes thing wasn't bringing in enough money. Only true crime history buffs know about Holmes but everybody knows Jack the Ripper. That's where the real money is. lol

How many seasons do you think I can get out of that puppy?  

 

And I think you are right on about his playing up the Ripper angle because, until a few years ago, Holmes was pretty much lost to history.  At any rate, writing a whole book about your connection to ANYONE who was your great great grandfather would be a real stretch.  Why on Earth would anyone want to read your musings on a man you never met?

[Toothbrush]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

And we have our next special. Where Smorbie Buried Hoffa: but only because some dead relative said to, during a rainstorm in which Smorbie's backyard was swamped and a strange bone rose to the surface.

I want in! I would have to fudge my birthdate by a year or so, but I could claim to be the reincarnation of Jimmy Hoffa. Who knew he came back as an actuary, soccer mom of 3 from NOLA? Mystery solved! 

Have your people contact mine, smorbie! 

[Mabinogia]

7 minutes ago, Toothbrush said:

but I could claim to be the reincarnation of Jimmy Hoffa. Who knew he came back as an actuary, soccer mom of 3 from NOLA? Mystery solved! 

And then came to this forum in search of your murderer. Yes, I think we could stretch this out a couple seasons. If we do some past life regression stuff we can get both Toothbrush's and Smorbie's POV on the killing. Smorbie, we need to work out a good motive. Toothbrush, start hiding coded messages in all your posts regaring Smorbie. Of course, once the Smorbie killed Hoffa buzz dies down a bit, we're going to have to up our game. How do you feel about being the Son of Sam too?

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

And then came to this forum in search of your murderer. Yes, I think we could stretch this out a couple seasons. If we do some past life regression stuff we can get both Toothbrush's and Smorbie's POV on the killing. Smorbie, we need to work out a good motive. Toothbrush, start hiding coded messages in all your posts regaring Smorbie. Of course, once the Smorbie killed Hoffa buzz dies down a bit, we're going to have to up our game. How do you feel about being the Son of Sam too?

I want in!!!  I could play the short, chubby little old lady who is a medium, telling everyone what Jimmy says about someone (other than him) making money off his murder.

[smorbie]

44 minutes ago, Toothbrush said:

I want in! I would have to fudge my birthdate by a year or so, but I could claim to be the reincarnation of Jimmy Hoffa. Who knew he came back as an actuary, soccer mom of 3 from NOLA? Mystery solved! 

Have your people contact mine, smorbie! 

Gotta get some people first, but then, I'll be sure to do that!

34 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

And then came to this forum in search of your murderer. Yes, I think we could stretch this out a couple seasons. If we do some past life regression stuff we can get both Toothbrush's and Smorbie's POV on the killing. Smorbie, we need to work out a good motive. Toothbrush, start hiding coded messages in all your posts regaring Smorbie. Of course, once the Smorbie killed Hoffa buzz dies down a bit, we're going to have to up our game. How do you feel about being the Son of Sam too?

Totes cool with being the SoS.  I like dogs!  I'll have to work on a motive for Hoffa since I didn't know who he was what with my being a child and all.  The news droned on about his being the head of the Teamsters.  I thought they meant sports.

[Mabinogia]

3 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I like dogs!  I'll have to work on a motive for Hoffa since I didn't know who he was what with my being a child and all.

He totally kicked your dog! He kicked your dog and in a childish fit you killed him. It was an accident. But you panicked. We need someone who helped you hid the body. I, too, was a child so I'm not sure I could help, unless we get a gang of children involved and then maybe make it into a kind of Goonies/Stand By Me/It kind of kids riding bikes in small towns kind of thing. Ooh, tie in!!!! We will ride the IT coattails. We're gonna be FAMOUS!!!!!

[Toothbrush]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

And then came to this forum in search of your murderer. Yes, I think we could stretch this out a couple seasons. If we do some past life regression stuff we can get both Toothbrush's and Smorbie's POV on the killing. Smorbie, we need to work out a good motive. Toothbrush, start hiding coded messages in all your posts regaring Smorbie. Of course, once the Smorbie killed Hoffa buzz dies down a bit, we're going to have to up our game. How do you feel about being the Son of Sam too?

SoS sounds great, and I'm up for being Lizzie Borden also. Now where did I put my axe? 

[Nessie]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:25 AM, smorbie said:

Then he wrote a whole book filled with the idiocy of this in which he revealed that the spirit of his great great grandfather was appearing to him wanting him to start fulfilling his legacy by killing people.  uh huh.

This is AMAZING!!  I so wish he had brought it up during the show.  You know, to add some substance to his claims...

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

And we have our next special. Where Smorbie Buried Hoffa: but only because some dead relative said to, during a rainstorm in which Smorbie's backyard was swamped and a strange bone rose to the surface.

I would watch the shit out of that show.  Get on it, @smorbie!

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

And then came to this forum in search of your murderer. Yes, I think we could stretch this out a couple seasons. If we do some past life regression stuff we can get both Toothbrush's and Smorbie's POV on the killing. Smorbie, we need to work out a good motive. Toothbrush, start hiding coded messages in all your posts regaring Smorbie. Of course, once the Smorbie killed Hoffa buzz dies down a bit, we're going to have to up our game. How do you feel about being the Son of Sam too?

Whoo Hoo!  And now I have my part!  I took a week-long training on past-life regression years ago.  Pretty sure I remember how to do it.

[smorbie]

3 minutes ago, Toothbrush said:

SoS sounds great, and I'm up for being Lizzie Borden also. Now where did I put my axe? 

So YOU'RE the spirit that's been haunting me making me perform these horrible acts!