S01.E08: Reddick v Boseman

[formerlyfreedom]

Carl Reddick makes a surprise return to the firm; a local pastor needs the firm's help; Lucca unexpectedly meets Colin's parents; Henry attempts to reconnect with Maia.

[talktalk]

Why didn't Barbara vote until the vote was counted?

[Noreaster]

Boring episode.  I wish I cared about these characters but the show has done little to explain their motivations.  I don't care about Maia and her family.  I don't know why Lucca is such a closed off person. Colin comes off too swarmy at times.  The Reddick vs. Boseman battle was pretty weak... just another version of the power plays on The Good Wife except worse.  I don't understand the Barbara character at all while all I know about Adrian is that he's focused on making money.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

I was getting a creepy Get Out vibe from Colin's parents wrt their fawning behavior toward Lucca. Wonder if Colin knows that they think his relationship with Lucca was mainly for the future political optics? Even if he finds out what happened and manages to convince Lucca that he wasn't using her, she'll probably never fully trust him. I'm sad for her.

[UNOSEZ]

I have been that guy at the party where all the black ppl questions come your way... Very uncomfortable 

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

I have been that guy at the party where all the black ppl questions come your way... Very uncomfortable 

As a white lib, it gave me an interesting perspective into what it must be like to be black in a post-Trump world. Just one more horrible thing, I guess. 

[UNOSEZ]

I wont go all the way to horrible...but it can be trying depending on your prior mood sometimes ive laffed it off as slight ignorance or just funny statements and other times it can get insulting 

[Anya]

I'm not sure what happened or what the intentions were of this show. Diane Lockhart was supposed to be the star of the show? And now she's just showed to the side like a supporting character, and mostly has little involvement in anything at the firm. I'm now feeling that casting Christine Baranski was just bait to get The Good Wife viewers to tune in to the new show. She's one of the characters they focus on the least.

I was very exited about this show because I loved Diane in The Good Wife. I loved seeing a woman with her power and dignity and leadership, and I really wanted to see her soar and be taken to a new level in this series, where she would be the lead instead of Alicia. I was also excited since women that age rarely are seen in great leading characters, and get to have lots of power and dignity.

But she's been completely showed to the side, and is now even almost apologizing and shrinking down when she's in a meeting. It's a man that runs the show and has the lead, Barbara is his sidekick and every now and then Diane is allowed to show her face, if he allows it. And if she's in a meeting and tries to speak up or give an opinion, she is always reminded that she is not a named partner and has no real say or authority. And you see her shrink and be silent again and again.

Sure, the show is good enough, and I would have enjoyed it. But this weird set up of putting Diane in a small role, a role where they have stripped away almost all her authority and pride, I keep waiting for Diane to get to shine and am constantly left disappointed about what the writers have done to her. None of the other actors are as good as Christine Baranski, and there was such momentum built around her from The Good Wife. I wanted and expected her to be the star. That's how they sold the show and now it's something completely different.

I'm saddened to see her written as a supporting role, where she isn't given the opportunity to shine and to be the amazing Diane that she is. What a way to push a magnificent woman down and silence her. Now I wish she would not have been on this show, so we could have remembered her as the great Diane that she was in The Good Wife.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

None of the other actors are as good as Christine Baranski

I don't think this is true and I say that as someone who's been a fan of hers since she was on Cybill.

I still see Diane as the star of the show but not every episode needs to center on her. The show is still young and there's plenty of time for her status at the firm to grow. Meanwhile, we're now seeing with Diane, Maia, and Sarah a bit of what it's like when POC work for predominately White firms and are often treated as tokens.

[Anya]

3 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I don't think this is true and I say that as someone who's been a fan of hers since she was on Cybill.

I still see Diane as the star of the show but not every episode needs to center on her. The show is still young and there's plenty of time for her status at the firm to grow. Meanwhile, we're now seeing with Diane, Maia, and Sarah a bit of what it's like when POC work for predominately White firms and are often treated as tokens.

I see your point of view, but I personally really wanted the episodes to center on her, and think that would have been a great show.

I wanted to know Diane more, her personal life, to see her be powerful in court, negotiations etc. To have someone to connect with and root for. There's something about the show that feels off when there is no clear leading actor/actress, and they kind of try to have equal screen time for everyone. There's no center point that ties everything together. It doesn't work for me and in the end I don't feel much for anyone, there are just too many cooks in the kitchen. And, well, I do think the acting is "ok" at best.

Yes the roll reversal is good and hopefully has many reflecting, and maybe the writers wanted to emphasize that with "the fall" of Diane and not giving her space and a voice. But that for me is a different show than a spin off of The Good Wife starring Christine Baranski. 

[wendyg]

Actually, the character I most would like to see get an episode where we learn more about her is Barbara Kolstad. Erica Tazel was great on JUSTIFIED, and here all she's had an opportunity to do so far is politely disapprove of Diane. I'd really like to know about her back story, her motivations for being a lawyer, her relationship with Adrian.

[Noreaster]

13 hours ago, Anya said:

I wanted to know Diane more, her personal life, to see her be powerful in court, negotiations etc. To have someone to connect with and root for. There's something about the show that feels off when there is no clear leading actor/actress, and they kind of try to have equal screen time for everyone. There's no center point that ties everything together. It doesn't work for me and in the end I don't feel much for anyone, there are just too many cooks in the kitchen.

I agree.  I think this show is missing a strong anchor.  Though I don't know if Diane is the right character to fill that role.  Her story is not that compelling at this stage.  The Kings did a pretty good job developing the Diane character over seven seasons on The Good Wife and I don't know what else they can do.   

The premise of The Good Fight was interesting (Diane losing her retirement savings in the Madoff-like scheme and needing to start over in a new firm), but Diane is not really in bad shape.  She's an extremely successful lawyer who commands a lot of respect from others and her earnings power is not really in doubt.  She shouldn't be struggling.  I also don't like the status of her relationship with Kurt. Diane believes he cheated yet is still flirting and maintaining a relationship with him?  Doesn't work for me.  It was understandable in the Alicia/Peter situation on TGW, but not with Diane/Kurt.  

I think the Diane character was great as a supporting role on TGW and could continue in the same vein here (with some good arcs here and there similar to the Gary Cole and Oliver Platt storylines), but I feel the main focus on TGF should be on characters we know less well.  Like Adrian or Barbara.  Not Maia because that would be a retread of the Alicia storyline (inexperienced naive lawyer learning the ways of the real world).  

[feverfew]

I liked this episode; I liked that for once the paster/religious figure didn't turn out to be a bad guy. That was surprising.

As for Diane's diminished role this episode, I felt it was necessary for us to get a better handle on the other players. I personally would probably have cut down a bit on Maia's story instead (I still don't know why her mother's affair with Jax is needed other than giving the great Bernadette Peters something to play off against), but I understand the need to fleash out all players. I would like to know more about how Diane feels about not having a say in the firm's politics, but I have high hopes we'll circle back to her. More Lucca is always welcome in my book, and now I'm stealth-shipping her and Morello.

The divide between the partners felt very real and is an interesting storyline to play: the changing of the guards, so to speak.

Erica Tazel is so, so beautiful. And I wanted every item in her wardrobe this episode. That last coat? Give it to meeeeeee...

[NutMeg]

On 4/4/2017 at 9:12 AM, Anya said:

I'm not sure what happened or what the intentions were of this show. Diane Lockhart was supposed to be the star of the show? And now she's just showed to the side like a supporting character, and mostly has little involvement in anything at the firm. I'm now feeling that casting Christine Baranski was just bait to get The Good Wife viewers to tune in to the new show. She's one of the characters they focus on the least.

I was very exited about this show because I loved Diane in The Good Wife. I loved seeing a woman with her power and dignity and leadership, and I really wanted to see her soar and be taken to a new level in this series, where she would be the lead instead of Alicia. I was also excited since women that age rarely are seen in great leading characters, and get to have lots of power and dignity.

But she's been completely showed to the side, and is now even almost apologizing and shrinking down when she's in a meeting. It's a man that runs the show and has the lead, Barbara is his sidekick and every now and then Diane is allowed to show her face, if he allows it. And if she's in a meeting and tries to speak up or give an opinion, she is always reminded that she is not a named partner and has no real say or authority. And you see her shrink and be silent again and again.

Sure, the show is good enough, and I would have enjoyed it. But this weird set up of putting Diane in a small role, a role where they have stripped away almost all her authority and pride, I keep waiting for Diane to get to shine and am constantly left disappointed about what the writers have done to her. None of the other actors are as good as Christine Baranski, and there was such momentum built around her from The Good Wife. I wanted and expected her to be the star. That's how they sold the show and now it's something completely different.

I'm saddened to see her written as a supporting role, where she isn't given the opportunity to shine and to be the amazing Diane that she is. What a way to push a magnificent woman down and silence her. Now I wish she would not have been on this show, so we could have remembered her as the great Diane that she was in The Good Wife.

As as see it, Diane, contrary to all expectations (hers and ours) is having to start again. She joins a firm where Adrian/Barbara are the Will/Diane of yore, with Adrian being the one rooting for her, as Will was with Alicia.

Now Diane is not exactly the new Alicia, because that role is spread between her and Maia. But yeah, we are getting back to season 1 of the good wife and in a way I like it, because it was so good. This feels like a reboot, with a different work environment, but we (or at least I) know Diane will rise and shine. As will Marissa, who I'm liking a lot, and has what it takes to become a good investigator (I love how she goes for it, too - she's our Robin 2.0).

What was Kalinda 1.0 is now spread between new investigator whose name I don't know, because he's in the same job, Lucca because she seemed to act like her in her private life, and Marissa because she really has the chutzpah for the job. (Way to go Kalinda, takes three people to be you while still not being you!)

I like the addition of Maia and once again I don't see her as Alicia 2.0. Her parents, though, are in the running for worst parents on TV, but I'll reserve judgment until I've  seen it run. Also, while I understand that she doesn't like uncle Jax for his involvement with her mom, he's still the only one who gave her true and valuable information in this whole mess (if it was a soap, he would turn out to be her dad - might still be the case!), so as much as she dislikes him, if she doesn't trust any of her parents, she might as well try to get intel from him, even if that means fake playing neutral if not nice. 

And I do like the new "Will and Diane", I mean Adrian and Barbara, and as back then Adrian/Will more than Barbara/Diane, but if history serves, that will change, and I'm looking forward to seeing them both in court.  

Edited April 7, 2017 by NutMeg
(typo)

[kieyra]

I don't mind the ensemble cast in theory, but the show does feel a little uncentered. Thing is, our co-leads are problematic. Lucca is a cipher, and Maia just kind of runs from one emergency to another, looking perpetually stunned as she realizes how fucked up her family situation is. 

Diane, as mentioned, is literally and figuratively back-burnered.

I don't know enough about the other partners to be invested in them. They're fighting the good fight. And they like money.

The Elsbeth episodes were the best for me so far, but it meant that awful antagonist character who I can't even bear to watch, much less remember his name.

Wouldn't have minded the Elsbeth/Diane/Marissa show instead of the Maia/Lucca/ ..... Diane way over there show. 

[Sandman]

I agree it feels like the show's centre of gravity is out of place. And I wouldn't have wanted to be Lucca at that "Oh, look! A real live black person!" birthday party. I also wouldn't have wanted to be Colin at that birthday party, either, for different reasons. But Andrea Martin is always fun. (Is it wrong that I want Colin Morello's mom to meet -- and make short work of -- Colin Sweeney? Also, show: Justin Bartha is not 32 years old, and doesn't look 32 years old.)

And, yes, once again, Henry Rindell does the most selfish thing(s) possible.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Sandman

[UsernameFatigue]

I was enjoying this episode as it appeared to be politics-free and then bam, 15 minutes in and they bring up Trump. Ugh. And yawn. 

I enjoyed the case about the pastor, and particularly Marissa and the investigator Jay. I would like to see much more of them. Still don't care about Maia and her family, or about Lucca. And continue to hate how Diane's character is being written. 

[John Potts]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 8:51 PM, NutMeg said:

This feels like a reboot, with a different work environment, but we (or at least I) know Diane will rise and shine.

That's what I'm afraid of! Not only do we have the "Older woman has to restart her career at a new firm" plotline, we have the "Founding partner disapproves of the direction firm is going" plotline too!

On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 3:16 AM, kieyra said:

I don't mind the ensemble cast in theory, but the show does feel a little uncentered.

It does seem to not be sure who in its cast is meant to be the focus (I find Maia tedious for the most part but would like more focus on Adrian or Barbara). Marissa learning to be an investigator is also interesting to me.

One thing I must have missed - who deleted the hour's worth of video?

[Milburn Stone]

There is no doubt in my mind that TV Tropes has a name for this, but the "Lucca not just telling Colin what the weird uncle said, for God's sake" thing was maddening. This show ought to be better than that.