Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[apinknightmare]

The more we see them being schmoopy and in love the harder that will be to believe/understand. I hope it's a good discussion.

I think he'll flat-out tell her

that he's in love with her and he won't risk her. Yeah, she's not any safer being apart from him romantically, but I think him pushing her away is as much about guarding his heart as it is about guarding her safety. He's lost a lot of people he loves, almost entirely as consequences for his past mistakes, so it makes sense to me that he'd revert into old behavior the very second that something threatens his happiness. I guess they're going to have him grow out of that mindset throughout the course of the season? I'm more interested in what Felicity's going to say. I totally buy Oliver breaking it off, especially if he's head-over-heels for her. I really don't know what Felicity's issue is going to be. There are a lot of possibilities, but they're harder to predict.

[Password]

I wonder if she'll put up a fight.

She can utterly destroy his argument with the fact that she's always in danger regardless of them being together and that may lead to him pushing her away. Or she could bring up the fact that he's been fairly wishy washy with her and she's a little tired of his all over the placeness (wow I just made up a word).

 

Regardless of what the reasoning is, I really hope it sells. What would be utterly amazing would be Felicity calling him out on protecting himself as the actual reason because it is. Food for thought Mr. Queen.

 

Hehe Deadshot quote.

Edited September 26, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[dtissagirl]

@ArrowLimbo -- you have a point that

Oliver is protecting himself by pushing people away. And since the theme of the season is identity, and Oliver is gonna be manpaining over the duality of being a hero vs. having a life... I guess if Oliver explicitly tells Felicity he can't be Oliver Queen and the Arrow at the same time -- and since he needs to be the Arrow or we'd not have a season to watch -- I can see Felicity honestly not wanting to date the Arrow.

[apinknightmare]

@ArrowLimbo -- you have a point that

Oliver is protecting himself by pushing people away. And since the theme of the season is identity, and Oliver is gonna be manpaining over the duality of being a hero vs. having a life... I guess if Oliver explicitly tells Felicity he can't be Oliver Queen and the Arrow at the same time -- and since he needs to be the Arrow or we'd not have a season to watch -- I can see Felicity honestly not wanting to date the Arrow.

I think he's probably not going to give her a choice.

[Sunshine]

I don't think he'll give her a choice either. He will tell her how he feels and why he was unwilling to do anything about it. He thinks maybe now he can. Whatever happens so he goes back to we can't. I would think her stance once again is you can't just accept or settle for less. There has to be another way. He of course knows you can't (insert eyeroll). She'll continue looking for more with or without him.

 

Why are we having this discussion here instead of the spoiler thread?

[apinknightmare]

I don't think he'll give her a choice either. He will tell her how he feels and why he was unwilling to do anything about it. He thinks maybe now he can. Whatever happens so he goes back to we can't. I would think her stance once again is you can't just accept or settle for less. There has to be another way. He of course knows you can't (insert eyeroll). She'll continue looking for more with or without him.

Why are we having this discussion here instead of the spoiler thread?

I think because it was a spawn of a conversation about agency that got spoilery. I'm terrible at knowing at which point we should move a convo!

[Password]

It's spoilery but also very relationshippy. Right that's 3 words in a matter of hours made up.

[foreverevolving]

I am so gonna start using "relationshippy"! that is so awesome.

Edited September 26, 2014 by foreverevolving

[wingster55]

Right that's 3 words in a matter of hours made up.

 

That's some sincerious word making skills. 

[statsgirl]

I wonder if she'll put up a fight.

It would be ironic, considering Oliver told both Tommy and Laurel to fight for their relationship.

 

I don't think she will fight if he's adamant.  Maybe she doesn't think she has enough sway to influence him.

 

She fought for Oliver to stop killing because she believed it was that important but in relationships, she's always accepted them at the value they placed there (e.g. Diggle/Carly, Oliver/McKenna).  If that's what Oliver wants, I think Felicity would step back, especially since for so long she thought they were 'unthinkable'.

[pootlus]

It's going to be weird - Oliver saw what pushing someone away did to Roy and Thea, why does he think it's going to work this time? Okay I don't see Felicity running off to Malcolm Merlyn - she's not betrayed and damaged like Thea is - but still.

[TanyaKay]

^^^^

I think we have established it beyond a shadow of doubt that Oliver is the worst when it comes to relationships, be it romantic or familial. He has screwed up enough of his own and of people who are stupid enough to take his advice *cough Roy Harper cough* to know that he should leave them to the other person's discretion but we also know that he is not big on learning from his past mistakes.

[Password]

He isn't right? So Felicity pointing out the obvious would be good for him because on his own he's hopeless. He's a hero, but his leadership skills need work. His personal relationships leave much to be desired. He's not perfect, but imperfect people need all the help they can get.

[statsgirl]

Felicity pointed out to him that he needed Diggle, but he refused to go to Digg until he needed him for the Undertaking so he doesn't listen to her.

 

Thea told him he needed to open up to somebody and he took her advice but went to Laurel.  Diggle told him not to trust his mother but Oliver fought him all the way.  

 

I'm beginning to think that what Oliver needs to do is the exact opposite of what he actually does.

[TanyaKay]

There should be a line in Arrow (I want either Felicity or Roy to say it because Diggle is too nice) that goes: "Think about what Oliver Queen would do at this precise moment and then do the exact opposite because that would be the smartest thing to do." Extra points if they actually say it to Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

I'm beginning to think that what Oliver needs to do is the exact opposite of what he actually does.

 

He needs to embrace The Costanza Principle:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY

Edited September 27, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

From the Felicity thread:

 

I already don't like Ray because he is an "obstacle" to Olicity like Sara was. I know many want Felicity to have options but I don't believe she does. You don't have options when 18-20 hours of your day and consumed with work and supporting a vigilante. Unless Ray and Felicity are sexing it up on his desk, the relationship is doomed from the start unless she leaves Team Arrow. If they have Felicity leave TA, I think the writers will need wit sec.

I will be watching Ray and Felicity just waiting for Olicity.

 

I think this is the problem with spoilers and character descriptions that give everything away. If Ray had just been described as a personal and professional rival to Oliver or even just as the new owner of QC then we wouldn't really know what was going to happen with his character or who he would be interacting with. But as the EP's keep repeating that he's a LI for Felicity and has 'incredible' chemistry with EBR, we all pretty much know where that storyline is heading and it takes the enjoyment out of it I guess. And because they're

making Olicity a thing in 301 - and not just a passing thing either; they're declaring their feelings for each other

- it's pretty much telling us that Ray is just an interim thing while Felicity and Oliver get their acts together. At least, that's how it's coming across. They could change that but I doubt it.

 

And as someone who is seriously tired of love triangles (in all shows, not just Arrow) I feel pretty meh about his character already. I'm willing to be proved wrong though! Wow me BR!

[wingster55]

I think that they can disprove this with: Digg/Felicity, Roy/Felicity (pls pls pls), Oliver/Laurel, Oliver/Sara... Why is it that Oliver/Felicity have to stay friends when there are plenty of other friendships? :p I just want them to be together, so don't listen to me lol

 

Fair with Diggle/Felicity..but do the Oliver/Laurel and Oliver/Sara really count as friendships? Not to me. 

If we get a Roy/Felicity friendship (and apparently are getting Felicity and Laurel as friends/more friendly)...can Thea hate Felicity please? 

[wonderwall]

Fair with Diggle/Felicity..but do the Oliver/Laurel and Oliver/Sara really count as friendships? Not to me. 

If we get a Roy/Felicity friendship (and apparently are getting Felicity and Laurel as friends/more friendly)...can Thea hate Felicity please? 

I disagree, I think it's possible to be friends with exes. And I think making Oliver/Laurel be friends is the plan. They can become friends, but can't be anything more because of all the baggage. 

 

I would rather have Thea/Felicity and Laurel hate Felicity. It just makes senseee! 

 

Then again, I see Thea hating Felicity/Digg/Oliver because of Oliver being the Arrow. 

[wingster55]

Yes, you can have exes be friends but my point is more of purely platonic male-female friendships..which Oliver and the Lance sisters aren't. And as of right now...they really aren't (though Oliver/Laurel is close enough) 

 

I just want one character to not like Felicity. 

[Guest]

Sorry, jumping in to say why would you want Thea to hate Felicity?! WHY lol. Is this because you don't like her?!

 

I'd rather her be kind of standoffish and unsure about her, if anything, because of the whole Arrow/keeping secrets thing but she softens once she gets to know her. I see Thea liking Felicity, especially as Felicity was the one who wanted Oliver/Moira to tell Thea the truth about her parentage. Thea is all about honesty. I think she would appreciate that about her but maybe that's just me.

 

Editing to say Moira didn't like Felicity. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Guest

[wingster55]

Moira wasn't really around her enough...though apparently Felicity had Moira's respect. 

 

Not sure why I want this...I just do. 

[TanyaKay]

 

I just want one character to not like Felicity. 

 

Isabel hated Felicity and her smug little face quite a bit. Laurel was condescending to her and somehow I cannot imagine her being nice to her even when the writers are trying so hard to sell their friendship.

[Guest]

Moira wasn't really around her enough...though apparently Felicity had Moira's respect. 

 

Not sure why I want this...I just do. 

 

Really? I didn't really get that vibe from her but ok.

 

Ha, ok. Fair enough!

[ban1o]

When it comes to Olicity I`m just worried because most relationships on the CW involve a lot of angst and drama, especially if they are endgame and they get together early in the show`s run.  Although a little drama is good I just don`t want them to ruin their relationship with baby drama, stupid misunderstandings that break them up, cheating and so on. But if the writers can write a relationship for them without all of that then I`m fine with it. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

Fair with Diggle/Felicity..but do the Oliver/Laurel and Oliver/Sara really count as friendships? Not to me. 

If we get a Roy/Felicity friendship (and apparently are getting Felicity and Laurel as friends/more friendly)...can Thea hate Felicity please? 

I think Oliver/Sara do count as a  friendship because Sara is the only one who really understood what Oliver went through.  FWB for a while but it seems like that has ended and now they're just friends.

 

Laurel already hates Felicity, when she deigns to notice her.  Isn't that enough?  While I don't want there to be a catfight in the lair, I really can't buy Laurel and Felicity being friends.  Too different, too much water under the bridge.  It makes more sense for Sara to be friends with Felicity. If Sara weren't Laurel's sister, I'd have a hard time buying them as friends too.

 

Thea has been okay with Roy having outside female friendships.  since she doesn't hate Sin for it, why would she hate Felicity?

 

From the Felicity thread:

 

I think that she's implying that at some point, all the banter between Oliver/Felicity will get old and boring because it'll be the same old thing every week. So it won't be that the writers will mess it up, it'll be that the audience will get bored of it. Oliver/Felicity's relationship will have to change at one point in order to keep that dynamic interesting. So I'm all for them following through with their narrative.

Yes, that's what I meant.  I think if they had left Oliver/Felicity as purely friendship, as Diggle/Felicity is, or Beckett/Esposito/Ryan on Castle,  or Tony/Abby on NCIS, it could have gone on indefinitely, never moving anywhere, nothing ever there but friendship.  But it's too late now for Oliver and Felicity because they've teased that they are more to each other than purely platonic friends, and they've been doing it for 43 episodes.  It's impossible to pull back on them now to being "just friends" and banter that doesn't have a second meaning.  If they don't move them forward, the Oliver/Felicity banter is going to get as flat as Tony/Ziva on the latter seasons of NCIS.

 

I think it's worth noting that Felicity has always done double entendres about Oliver that were somewhat sexual in nature, about his body and his sexuality, and he was the one she spent her time looking at, not Diggle. She even saved Sally because she liked seeing Oliver do her.  So Oliver and Felicity were never "just friends", it was always heading towards something more, even if only the way Garcia crushes on Derek (which I have always hated since it was so obvious it was never going anywhere since he was a hot guy and she was comic relief).

 

The other problem is the chemistry that Amell and Rickards have with each other.  Even if the producers could permanently friend-zone Oliver and Felicity, both character would be spoiled for future relationships with other characters because a sizable portion of the audience would always be thinking "If only they had put Oliver and Felicity together, now that would have been amazing."

 

I think they have to try Olicity within the next two seasons or have it hanging over the show as a huge black hole.

 

 

Really? I didn't really get that vibe from her but ok.

That was from an interview Susanna Thompson gave after Heir to the Demon but we never actually saw it on the show.  I don't think Moira and Felicity shared a scene after Heir, and before that, in The Undertaking and The Scientist, Moira didn't look like she appreciated Felicity's babbling faux pas although her real hatred was justifiably reserved for Isabel.

 

Isabel really hated Felicity. I always thought it would have been a nice touch if she did because she was Felicity as Oliver's Moira, Moira being the woman she lost Robert to.

Edited October 1, 2014 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

When it comes to Olicity I`m just worried because most relationships on the CW involve a lot of angst and drama, especially if they are endgame and they get together early in the show`s run.  Although a little drama is good I just don`t want them to ruin their relationship with baby drama, stupid misunderstandings that break them up, cheating and so on. But if the writers can write a relationship for them without all of that then I`m fine with it. 

I hope they don't do this not only because it's just frustrating to watch, it just destroys characterization and makes Oliver/Felicity look like petty children. I really hope they don't do the whole on/off thing. I also think that when they do get together, a lot more time could be focused on the villains instead of the whole will they/won't they thing they're probably going to do in season 3. 

 

But then again @ban1o, romance will always be a part of the show whether it's Olicity, Lauriver, Sara/Oliver, Sara/Nyssa, Laurel/Tommy... I think that because romance will always be a part of this show, I would much rather have Oliver/Felicity because they seem to be the most stable prospect. As in, once they get together, they stay together (despite having some hardships in between). 

[ban1o]

I hope they don't do this not only because it's just frustrating to watch, it just destroys characterization and makes Oliver/Felicity look like petty children. I really hope they don't do the whole on/off thing. I also think that when they do get together, a lot more time could be focused on the villains instead of the whole will they/won't they thing they're probably going to do in season 3. 

 

But then again @ban1o, romance will always be a part of the show whether it's Olicity, Lauriver, Sara/Oliver, Sara/Nyssa, Laurel/Tommy... I think that because romance will always be a part of this show, I would much rather have Oliver/Felicity because they seem to be the most stable prospect. As in, once they get together, they stay together (despite having some hardships in between). 

Oliver/Felicity > Oliver/Laurel.  Don't think I'm saying otherwise haha. That relationship is screwed up. I guess you're right. Felicity is probably the better option compared to the other female characters on the show and romance is inevitable. I guess in general I'm not into romance on CW shows lol :P 

 

Edit: By Cw shows I mean Vampire Diaries and Gossip Girl. Those are the only shows I've ever really watched on the CW.

Edited October 1, 2014 by ban1o

[wingster55]

Really? I didn't really get that vibe from her but ok.

 

I believe Susanna mentioned it in an interview if I remember right...

[wonderwall]

Moira wasn't really around her enough...though apparently Felicity had Moira's respect. 

Headcanon: 

I feel like Moira is the type of woman who respects the people who have the ability to threaten her, because those people tend to be powerful (not status). I mean, who is Felicity to Moira? She's a 20 something IT girl made EA and she actually has the balls to confront Moira like that. Most women wouldn't even do that. Most women would just forget about it. I think that 'inner steel' is what probably made Moira respect her. 

[statsgirl]

I can fanwank that it was confronting Moira that finally turned Moira around with respect to Felicity. Until then, Felicity was just IT girl who had a crush on Oliver, like just about every other young woman who worked at QC, and which Oliver used to his advantage when he made her  his EA.  Moira is a very controlled and calculating woman and not the type to be enchanted by Felicity's babbling.

 

I always thought that Moira liked Laurel because she saw Laurel as someone she could mold into what she wanted her to be.

[wingster55]

I always thought that Moira liked Laurel because she saw Laurel as someone she could mold into what she wanted her to be.

 

I never got that sense...then again they really never had significant scenes together.

[Chaser]

I totally understand why Felicity would have Moira's respect. She confronted her head on and that took a lot of courage. 

 

Regarding having someone not like Felicity. I get this. I tend to take issue with characters who are universally loved or placed on a pedestal (Laurel S1 was presented this way). I think it can dehumanize them or confuse the audience because mistakes tend to be excused for those characters. That begin said, I don't need someone to dislike Felicity. I just need her (and the others) to have relationships that allow mistakes to be addressed. This is one of the reasons I didn't want Laurel's intro to the Team to be glossed over and them to be shown as immediate friends. I do think realistically there would be some awkward moments and distrust and it would help all the characters if this was actually shown. 

 

I much prefer Olicity over any other pairing on Arrow so I'm glad they are going in that direction. Olicity is the least CWish of all the pairings to me. I just really want a lead to have a romance that is built on mutual trust and respect. 

[KenyaJ]

Laurel has shown in two seasons that she has no use for Felicity. I wish the writers would let her be her own character and honor that history, instead of having her be "friendly" with Felicity for ... reasons. It would knock Felicity down a peg if good-doer Laurel didn't like her, as opposed to evil Isabelle. 

 

Are there any characters on the canvas who dislike Diggle? Even Deadshot regards him highly.

Edited October 1, 2014 by KenyaJ

[ban1o]

EH, I still see  no problem with a Laurel/Felicity friendship lol. They'll be interacting more now that Laurel knows the secret and is in on everything. Don't see a reason why they can't be somewhat friends. They BARELY interacted before and Laurel had no idea who she was. It's not like Felicity tried to be friends with her either. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by ban1o

[Sakura12]

Felicity was always friendly when interacting with Laurel, she said hi to her, she looked in her in the eyes when she wanted to talk to Oliver alone. That is the difference. It's one thing not to like someone, it's a different thing when you barely acknowledge someone as a person. Laurel never talked to Felicity directly even when she was right in front of her. That made her look like an entitled bitch that thinks Felicity is not worthy of her time.

 

So, no. I can't see them as friends. Laurel deciding she has to be friendly with Felicity because she's more than Oliver's servant I can see. Laurel having another personality transplant for season 3 where she's super nice and super competent, I will never buy. The character has to learn and grow, not just change into a new person because the writers can't write for character.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Sakura12

[KenyaJ]

I assume we're never going to agree on this point, LOL, but with the exception of the Arrowcave scene, which we joined in progress, every other time Laurel and Felicity have interacted, Felicity greeted Laurel and made the attempt to be nice before she got stonewalled. I consider that making an effort to be nice, at least.  I can't imagine why you'd make the effort to be actual friends if someone can't even say hello back to you.

 

Ultimately, I don't really care if Felicity and Laurel are friendly this season (which is different than being friends, IMO). But I'd love it if Felicity admits to Laurel that she wrote her off at some point. That's how I respond to people when I make repeated efforts to be polite and they act like they can't be bothered.

 

All of that said, I stand by my original point that if someone has to dislike Felicity for the sake of Felicity being disliked, Laurel is still the most obvious and logical choice.

[ban1o]

Yeah I'll never agree with you guys then. :P Sure Laurel didn't really acknowledge her but she had no idea who she was. She was just some girl who worked for Oliver to her who she has seen like 3 or 4 times. It's not like she as ever rude to her (besides when she was drunk). Felicity at least knew Laurel was important to Oliver, which is why she mad the effort to be nice. I can totally see them being friendly with each other now that they'll be interacting more. Laurel has no reason to not like Felicity. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by ban1o

[willpwr]

I'm sorry but when someone calls you "gorgeous", you at least smile at them and look them in the eye, not act dismissively just because you don't know who they are.

[NumberCruncher]

I don't know if I like the idea of Laurel being the one who dislikes Felicity for the mere reason that it would give the appearance of being all about who has slept with Oliver

(Yes I know Felicity hasn't yet but that's the inevitable intention, right?)

and I don't need to see yet another female relationship centered around that.

 

As has been mentioned before, there are already regular characters who haven't liked Felicity (e.g. Moira, Isabel), so it's not as if she has been loved of all.  Personally, I don't need another character to hate her because it really serves no real purpose without a legitimate reason to back it up.  Moira understandably didn't like her because she was being the overly protective mama bear and Felicity threatened to blow up her web of lies.  I'm less clear as to what Isabel's true reasons were as to why she hated Felicity--it could have been because she was working for Slade and thus hated anyone aligned with Oliver or maybe she was just jealous of Oliver's loyalty to Felicity.  Why would Laurel hate Felicity for any reason other than because Felicity is the object of Oliver's romantic affection?  Seems like Felicity would have more right to feel disdain based upon how cold/dismissive Laurel has been around her, but I doubt Felicity would be like that.

 

This all being said, I don't need them to be BFFs either.  I'm perfectly fine with a cordial working relationship.  There had just better not be any discussions directly or indirectly about Oliver's penis.

Edited October 1, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[KenyaJ]

Yeah I'll never agree with you guys then. :P Sure Laurel didn't really acknowledge her but she had no idea who she was. She was just some girl who worked for Oliver to her who she has seen like 3 or 4 times. It's not like she as ever rude to her (besides when she was drunk). Felicity at least knew Laurel was important to Oliver, which is why she mad the effort to be nice. I can totally see them being friendly with each other now that they'll be interacting more. Laurel has no reason to not like Felicity. 

 

So Laurel is only required to be nice to people once she's assured that they're important to Oliver, and aren't just "the help"? The triumph of low expectations!

[Password]

Hehehehe. This is such a funny conversation.

[TanyaKay]

Yups, and that is so in character, she was like that with her sister as well, liking or disliking her because of Oliver.

She threw that exploding wine glass at Sara when she came back and only made an effort to be friendly with her when Oliver basically told Laurel that he is done with her. She was snooty and dismissive towards Felicity but now that she knows that she is brains behind the Team Arrow, she will be friendly. This is how amazing Laurel is, basing all her life decisions in context with Oliver. What a smart, lovely and strong female role model she is ....

[Sakura12]

It isn't just about being friendly, Laurel never talked to Felicity directly even when Felicity talked to her. If someone says hi to you, you say hi back. Not turn around and face someone else and talk about that person like they are not there. Felicity makes an effort to talk to Laurel and Laurel ignores her and acts like she doesn't exist. 

 

I don't normally decide whether I'm going to be friendly to someone based on their importance to others. They made a whole show about that in "Selfie", you should be friendly to people in general no matter who they are. After getting to know them you can then decide whether or not to continue being friendly. 

 

Laurel has an abrasive personality, they should roll with that and stop trying to tell me that she's such a good person. She's not evil, but she's not a nice person.

[Chaser]

I don't think you can really read much into the interaction we have seen so far with between Laurel and Felicity. The only one I had a problem with was Laurel introduction to the Team; that one for a variety of reasons that has already been mentioned.

 

For me its more about personality and history on whether or not it would work as a friendship. Do I think they could be friends? Sure. But I think it would need time. Oliver is the only common factor for Laurel and Felicity so I imagine he would be discussed (just no relationship advice please!). However, these women know two different Olivers. Laurel still sees her Ollie - based off of her speech and KC interviews. Felicity sees both the man (Oliver) and the mask (Arrow). She has craved a place in who he is now. Laurel should be cautious around Felicity (and really anyone in the Team). Felicity should be cautious around Laurel.

 

It makes sense to me that Laurel would be colder around Felicity. All Laurel sees is another person Oliver is more truthful to then her. Another person who knows him better then her. It makes sense that Felicity would be cautious because she has seen some of the negative influence Laurel has had on the Team. However, Felicity knows Laurel's importance to Oliver so she would be mindful of that. The writers shouldn't just overlook all these issues just to make them friends.

Edited October 1, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[statsgirl]

Yeah I'll never agree with you guys then. :P Sure Laurel didn't really acknowledge her but she had no idea who she was. She was just some girl who worked for Oliver to her who she has seen like 3 or 4 times. It's not like she as ever rude to her (besides when she was drunk). Felicity at least knew Laurel was important to Oliver, which is why she mad the effort to be nice. I can totally see them being friendly with each other now that they'll be interacting more. Laurel has no reason to not like Felicity. 

Laurel has a big reason not to like Felicity -- Felicity has been in the know about Oliver being the Arrow for more than a year before Laurel knew, and Oliver was the one voluntarily who told her, not Slade.  Given how possessive Laurel has been about Oliver (starting back from from Sara had a crush on him) and how convinced she is that no one knows Oliver as well as she does, that's not going to endear Felicity to her.

 

I think Laurel was rude to Felicity every time Felicity addressed her and Laurel refused to acknowledge her,  from their first meeting when Felicity was friendly and all Laurel said to her was "Who are you?" (she could have said "Nice to meet you" instead of addressing all her further remarks to Oliver) to the party scene where Felicity as Oliver's EA asked to speak to him privately (Laurel had no lines butshe could still have smiled at her and nodded) to the scene in the lair where Laurel as good as told Diggle and Felicity to leave without even a 'please' even though it was their home ground and not Laurel's.  Rudeness doesn't only mean what you say to someone, it also encompasses how you treat them in general.  To me, Laurel's behaviour towards Felicity and Diggle has been the very definition of rude every time they met.

 

But another reason is that there are two kinds of people in the world, those who are pleasant and caring about everyone just because they are people, and those who are only considerate if they deem the other person to be important.  (There are other kinds too but I'm keeping it simple for our purposes.)  Felicity is someone who cares about everyone, and Laurel cares about people only if they are important or useful to her.   That's why I can't see them every being real friends, they're too different.

 

I have a friend who has to walk with a wheelie cart because of  a disability and every time someone does something nice for her, like hold a door open, she tells them "Has anyone told you today that  you're wonderful?"    She's limited in her ability to do things but this is something that she can do, make a complete stranger's day better, and so she does and it gives her pleasure.  

 

That's something I can see Felicity doing, wanting to make a stranger's day better just because she can be nice to someone else.  As you have argued, Laurel wouldn't because she feel like she has to people unless they're important or she can use them in some way.  (That's a big part of why I don't like the character.)

 

If not for the artificial constraint of them both being on Team Arrow, I can't see Felicity and Laurel ever being friends, and if the show does try to push it, it's going to end up being fake and not true to either person's character.

[apinknightmare]

Personally, I don't care if Felicity and Laurel are friends, not friends, have lattes during pedicures or never speak to each other outside of Arrow business. I want them to be pleasant to each other and work well together because I do not, under any circumstances, ever ever ever want to see one flicker of unpleasantness that can in any way be attributed to jealousy or anger or whatever over Oliver.

[Guest]

I believe Susanna mentioned it in an interview if I remember right...

 

Right. I could actually believe that Felicity had earned Moira's respect by confronting her the way she did but that didn't come across on screen at all. Maybe there was some scenes cut which showed that? 

[statsgirl]

Here is the interview:

 

 

Will Moira make life hell for Felicity now that she's told Oliver about Thea's paternity? --Michelle
Susanna Thompson says that she and Emily Bett Rickards both "thoroughly enjoyed" that confrontation, in which Oliver's gal Friday revealed that she had unraveled the long-held Queen clan secret with a few clicks of a mouse. But as of right now, there doesn't appear to be any blowback. In fact, Thompson herself admired Felicity's candor. "I thought she had a lot of chutzpah to show up at Moira's mansion and put it to her -- with no bodyguards!" the actress said with a laugh. "I wouldn't put it past Moira that she actually respects that."

It looks it was Susanna Thompson who admired Felicity rather than Moira.  Doesn't look like there were any scenes cut, just not enough time for Moira and Felicity to share a scene again, since Slade showed up and there was more of Laurel's drama.

 

There are a couple of parallel discussions going on right now, here as to whether it was okay for Laurel to treat Felicity as she did because she didn't think Felicity was important, and on the Keep Your Enemies closer episode thread, whether Isabel treated Felicity badly dismissing her as a secretary who slept her way into her job.  I think it's worth mentioning that Felicity was not the only woman treated this way by Isabel and Laurel.  Isabel treated Moira with the same disdain (it's just that Moira was better equipped to claw back), and Laurel dismissed Sara both in flashbacks and when she first got back to town because she considered Oliver her property..

 

It can be argued that Isabel resented Moira because Robert stayed with her, and Laurel had a lot of sister history with Sara, but I don't think the point with how they treated Felicity is Felicity herself, but how they treat other women in general.  Two points do make a line. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by statsgirl

[fantique]

 

"I wouldn't put it past Moira that she actually respects that."

Although it does seem like Susannah imagined her character actually respected Felicity for her cojones. A bit like how Malcolm is proud to have Thea shoot him. But yeah, it's all spec now.

 

WRT Laurel/Felicity friendship: it has to feel earned and not a cheap way to get the Felicity fans to like Laurel. I do agree that they just seem like fundamentally different people but it's been found that it's not a necessary component for friendships. Romantic relationships yes, but not platonic ones. It does bother me that even when someone is trying to wave away the rudeness pointed out about their interactions all they can come up with is "Well, she didn't know she was important." That's messed up, regarding the character and her view on how to interact with others, I mean. Generally if I don't know someone I am even more careful than when I know they are important. For all I know they are my future boss and I just acted like an ass. Also even if they aren't, I don't see how that's an excuse not to treat someone with even a shred of human decency and act like they are in the bloody room. So I could see happening maybe gradually over the course of the season. With Laurel taking the first step, looking unsure of her position (not prancing about as if she automatically belongs) with Felicity. I think it's only fair since Felicity tried and was kinda informally shut down, she has no reason to try whereas Laurel should be trying to find her footing wrt the team members.

I do agree that they need to avoid any kind of "romantic rivals" like tension or creepy advice sessions.

 

I just wanna see Laurel with Diggle and Roy, lols :p. I just genuinely have no idea how their reception will be.

Edited October 6, 2014 by fantique