Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

It comes down to perception though..because for example one the few guys I know in RL that still watch the show asked me "so it's over between Oliver and Felicity? He isn't into her anymore." or something like that, I don't remember the exact words, because he knows I like the couple and follow spoilers online. It seemed to be the idea he and his friends got watching this season.

[BkWurm1]

15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

It comes down to perception though..because for example one the few guys I know in RL that still watch the show asked me "so it's over between Oliver and Felicity? He isn't into her anymore." or something like that, I don't remember the exact words, because he knows I like the couple and follow spoilers online. It seemed to be the idea he and his friends got watching this season.

And there have been times this season where I wondered the same thing.  But then I also wondered that in season three.  I never thought that Raylicity was going to last but I did seriously wonder if after Felicity said she didn't want to be a woman Oliver loved if that was the show's way of walking back the whole "I love you" thing.  Instead I learned this show is very all or nothing when it comes to its ships and you have to look for your clues elsewhere than just in the show.  I mean, there is stuff in the show that was greatly encouraging, including the lack of some stuff they could have done with Tinah, but right now it's the tonal shift in the interviews and the end in sight for some plot lines that gives me extra confidence that the show is not done with Olicity.  

Edited March 4, 2017 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

Plus, I think it's kind of funny how perceptions can be different. Like people I know are more of asking when are they getting back together (not even out of pure want of wanting them together) because this is television and break-ups/make-ups are just what tv shows do.

[Midnight Lullaby]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And there have been times this season where I wondered the same thing.  But then I also wondered that in season three.  I never thought that Raylicity was going to last but I did seriously wonder if after Felicity said she didn't want to be a woman Oliver loved if that was the show's way of walking back the whole "I love you" thing.  Instead I learned this show is very all or nothing when it comes to its ships and you have to look for your clues elsewhere than just in the show.  I mean, there is stuff in the show that was greatly encouraging, including the lack of some stuff they could have done with Tinah, but right now it's the tonal shift in the interviews and the end in sight for some plot lines that gives me extra confidence that the show is not done with Olicity.  

I never had doubts in season 3 to be honest because it was the classic stall before getting a couple together and Oliver was consistently in love with Felicity the whole time..

This year I had serious doubts they were done with them at the beginning when they gave interviews acting like fans were weird for asking about Olicity and remembering they were engaged last year. Going from almost married to team mates really made me wonder what they were trying to pull. Then I changed my mind and I'm convinced they are putting them back together now. I could be wrong but that's what I think. It won't make me happy like it would have had if they wrote the season differently but that's another thing.

What I meant though is that it's true that with the way they wrote their relationship they convinced some people they are done with them. My friends that are casual viewers are an example. I also saw some haters positively gleeful. (I'm going to enjoy their reaction if I'm right, LOL)

Edited March 4, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[kismet]

I see both sides of the perception coin. And both sides are valid. For me then the conspiracy side of me kicks in, and I truly wonder if this season was doing better would Olicity be officially done. I believe that they could never pivot back to them, and that would have been ok with the writers, so long as the show was thriving. And I also believe that they will pivot back to Olicity, but I always believed it would take longer.

I think the ratings, the lack of sustained interest in the new characters and the increase in tonal negativity from fans/critics have caused them to reach for the PANIC button. If we return back to Olicity this season, I do feel that a lot of it will be because the show went from stable, steady ratings & performance acceptance, to a free for all. Because nothing in show has really pointed to a definite reunion this season, no major crumbs. We got one hug and a handful of convos, that you really needed to be rooting for O/F to get the subliminal love message. However, the tonal shift that seems more positive towards Olicity has all come from BTS, which to me means they are trying to regain some momentum or fans that are slipping away from them.

Because of the structure of the show, they cannot retroactively put Olicity back together in the script for the middle part of s5. The script is written and prepped. But they can encourage a hug with a quick call to the director or a longer stare via editing. Change how a convo can be perceived by using different camera shots. And most definitely they can reach out to fans via interviews & such with hinted messages and changes in tone. So I will always wonder if a s5 Olicity reunion was in the cards, or was their hand forced by the show's decline.

Edited March 4, 2017 by kismet

[theOAfc]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Plus, I think it's kind of funny how perceptions can be different. Like people I know are more of asking when are they getting back together (not even out of pure want of wanting them together) because this is television and break-ups/make-ups are just what tv shows do.

I find it amusing that most of the times its male fans saying that olicity is over for good while female fans usually say they will get together eventually. I noticed it in different corners of the internet. A guy whould say olicity is done while a girl would say its tv and he is naive to think olicity is really done. Not sure if its because many male arrow fans on the internet are more possible to be comic purists who hate olicity so they somehow hope rather than expect olicity to be over for good. 

[way2interested]

Just now, theOAfc said:

I find it amusing that most of the times its male fans saying that olicity is over for good while female fans usually say they will get together eventually. I noticed it in different corners of the internet. A guy whould say olicity is done while a girl would say its tv and he is naive to think olicity is really done. Not sure if its because many male arrow fans on the internet are more possible to be comic purists who hate olicity so they somehow hope rather than expect olicity to be over for good. 

I mean, I guess? But most of the people I know who watch Arrow are guys (and subsequently their gfs who just start watching), and they're the ones who are expecting it and who want the make-up part to happen already so it can all be done, tbh.

Edited March 4, 2017 by way2interested

[statsgirl]

I think men are less likely to look for subtle relationship cues.  Also, while both sexes can enjoy a good romance, I think it's more important for women overall.  Anthropologists will be able to explain why.

17 minutes ago, kismet said:

I think the ratings, the lack of sustained interest in the new characters and the increase in tonal negativity from fans/critics have caused them to reach for the PANIC button. If we return back to Olicity this season, I do feel that a lot of it will be because the show went from stable, steady ratings & performance acceptance, to a free for all. Because nothing in show has really pointed to a definite reunion this season, no major crumbs. We got one hug and a handful of convos, that you really needed to be rooting for O/F to get the subliminal love message. However, the tonal shift that seems more positive towards Olicity has all come from BTS, which to me means they are trying to regain some momentum or fans that are slipping away from them.

Because of the structure of the show, they cannot retroactively put Olicity back together in the script for the middle part of s5. The script is written and prepped. But they can encourage a hug with a quick call to the director or a longer stare via editing. Change how a convo can be perceived by using different camera shots. And most definitely they can reach out to fans via interviews & such with hinted messages and changes in tone. So I will always wonder if a s5 Olicity reunion was in the cards, or was their hand forced by the show's decline.

I think swerving back to Olicity was always in the back of their minds unless Dinah really made a huge splash, as Felicity did in s1, but the dropping ratings really should be hitting the PANIC button for them.  It was always a steady pull to watch the show an even comics fan boys who think girls have cooties are okay with it as long as it stays in the background.

If you're right about making subtle directoral changes, I'd anticipate that happening after this current drama with Susan is over. They (unfortunately) still need to push the OLIVER LUVS SUSAN beats for some plot point or other even though the ratings have been falling for weeks now.  They're shooting 819 now so I don't anticipate any within-script changes before then.

[kismet]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They're shooting 819 now so I don't anticipate any within-script changes before then.

Hopefully they can get their act together before they write/shoot episode 819 :)

Edited March 4, 2017 by kismet

[Midnight Lullaby]

IMO it was the plan from the beginning but they wanted to focus on other stuff first. I'm not sure why it was impossible to focus on other stuff and still write them as exes that still have feelings for each other though.

[statsgirl]

But you'd have to be a good writer to do that....

1 hour ago, kismet said:

Hopefully they can get their act together before they write/shoot episode 819 :)

Oops.  I think that's what's known as a Freudian slip.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I think swerving back to Olicity was always in the back of their minds unless Dinah really made a huge splash, as Felicity did in s1, but the dropping ratings really should be hitting the PANIC button for them.

If bad ratings were the reason why they're swerving back to Olicity, they would've ended season 4 on a positive Olicity note (because that's when the big drop happened) and never started season 5 the way they did. 

[theOAfc]

24 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

they would've ended season 4 on a positive Olicity note (because that's when the big drop happened) and never started season 5 the way they did. 

I dont think the EPs thought the ratings drop by the end of the season was due to Olicity breaking up even though the big drop started right after 4x15. I actually think its more possible that they blamed the bad ratings on olicity in general and not on the olicity break up drama. After all ,the negativity was about the ship in general and certain loud fans made sure to let everyone know that olicity was the root of evil. Its also that many people claim the ratings dropped because LL died. 

The way i see it ,last year towards the end of season ratings dropped a lot. That ,as well as the fact that many loud fans(mainly LL fans) kept spamming the EPs,the cast and even random fans,telling them that olicity is ruining the show claiming that the focus on the ship hurts the ratings,kinda got to them. They had to blame the ratings drop on something and honestly,olicity/felicity was the best target. Way too many people would hate on both during that time(there was also the idea being pushed around that olicity was the reason LL died,which fueled even more hate coming even from general fans).

Im just saying,it might have something to do with the direction the show took this year. The "writing away from romance" was pushed a lot during summer hiatus. Eventually,they only wrote away from the olicity romance. And it wasnt just writing away from it(which i believe they planned to do once they found out Arrow was gonna go on for more seasons),it was downplaying its actual past importance to the point that some general fans thought flahspoint erased the olicity romance history(which i personally think has a lot to do with them trying to earn back the viewers that they thought dropped out because of olicity). Like...

I guess thats what happens when EPs listen to loud stans. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by theOAfc

[lemotomato]

I don't get it. If the drop in ratings last season wasn't attributed to breaking Olicity up, then why would TPTB attribute this seasons's drop in ratings* to lack of Olicity enough to make them change their plans?

*Worth noting that the drop within this season is ~0.2, ~300k viewers, which would be within the range of normal fluctuations. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by lemotomato

[theOAfc]

14 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I don't get it. If the drop in ratings last season wasn't attributed to breaking Olicity up, then why would TPTB attribute this seasons's drop in ratings* to lack of Olicity enough to make them change their plans?

 

Why attribute drop of ratings to something specific at all? Thats not how it works. But try tell that to these producers. They allow bitter loud fans to affect their writing. At least IMO.

Quote

*Worth noting that the drop within this season is ~0.2, ~40k viewers, which would be within the range of normal fluctuations. 

 While 0.2 is almost within the range of normal fluctuations from episode to episode,the fact that the show didnt manage to hit 0.7 ever since it came back from christmas hiatus VS how it hit 0.7 for most episodes during 5a, as well as the fact that its almost hitting 0.5 for last weeks says that once ratings drop,they dont really go up again,which is the actual issue. Unlike with flash, that hits 1.1 then hits 1.0 then back to 1.1 then 0.9 then 1.1,arrow hasnt reached 0.7 again in 5b and its heading towards a steady 0.5 (almost 0.55 each week).

Its also that for this year, ratings going from 0.7 to 0.55 and almost remaining, is actually a solid ~30% drop in demo,showing steady decline, which is something worth noting. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by theOAfc

[Mellowyellow]

Sometimes I believe in ratings conspiracy and that they got scared of the LL fans. 

But then they made Felicity punch BS which makes me go "Hmm interesting"

[LeighAn]

The biggest indicator for me that it was always the writers plan to pivot back to Olicity this season is the fact that they ended the premiere with Diggle asking Oliver what's going on with him and Felicity to which Oliver responded "I don't know" which basically translate to "find out if Olicity end up together or not coming up this season on Arrow" and if the writers were really 'done' with writing Olicity they wouldn't bother asking the question.

I can only speculate that my gut leads me to think the writers are trying to create an element of 'surprise' around Olicity reuniting. Make the audience think it's hopeless- but not too hopeless hence hang in there's like in 5x08 and 5x09- that Oliver and Felicity might be drifting apart for good and then BOOM surprise they get back together and we all gasp in pure shock cause we could have never possibly called that, good one writers!

[statsgirl]

They may have thought that the drop at the end of s4 was a normal blip and the show would recover or at least not be too badly affected in s5.  Remember, Arrow was one of only three returning shows that didn't lose audience last season.

But then the ratings went down at the start of s5 and they've been doing down pretty steadily ever since.  Flash and LoT and even Supergirl have ticked up at point but not Arrow.  They should be hitting the PANIC button now.

From the Spoiler Discussion Thread:

41 minutes ago, way2interested said:

 Treating her as a co-worker still doesn't mean "not remembering she exits only when he wants something," which I thought was a somewhat demeaning exaggeration and what I was arguing. One can still argue that his concern for Felicity is less than Diggle, that's a ymmv opinion. Same concept here, you can argue for the extent he cares, and for the lack of execution of that, but do you actually believe that Oliver hasn't seen Felicity as a person since 510? Exaggerations to make a point are one thing, but to make them as facts for arguments are kind of hard for me to take seriously. Again, there's an argument to be made for every character not caring about the other characters in specific instances, so the idea that Oliver doesn't care much about Felicity can still be applied to many different character relationships for this whole season, but I'm not jumping in to say that they all think that each other are tools or less than people.

How is being concerned that she might not be a good person anymore that she always has been putting her on a pedestal? It's like a parent or a family relative telling you "I expected more from you" when you're in trouble. It's not so much that they're putting you on a pedestal as much as reflecting on how bad this instance is compared to how you've normally been. Him making certain remarks is awkward because they never really talked about the fact he killed his brother, but that's still an execution problem, not a "Diggle is being patronizing/selfish/putting Felicity on a pedestal" problem.

We're probably always going to disagree about this but I think that Oliver hasn't noticed Felicity as a person since 505 except 1. when he felt bad because he killed her boyfriend (he didn't seem too concerned earlier about her when it was just Billy was missing and even Thea suited up) and 2. certain scenes in 510.  Being upset at her actions in 512, which Rory had to point him to because he didn't notice on his own, seemed to me more "Felicity shouldn't behave like that, fix it" than genuine concern for why she might be acting like that and could he help her.

A good parent never says "I expected better from you" without also saying "What's going on? What made you feel that  you had to act that way?"  Diggle never bothered to ask that, he just told her that her superpower was empathy, which I think is totally patronizing to a woman especially one with 2 masters degrees from MIT and he never would have said that to a man, and then he told her she shouldn't change.  He didn't reach out to her to help her through this, just attributed it to Billy's death and then anvilled her not to do what she's doing.

I just watched that scene again.  When Diggle confronts her because she's not being a good enough person, she tells him that it's a dark world out there and for four years she's watched him and Oliver and Thea  and Laurel and Roy using  a little darkness to fight it to which Diggle replies that when  you use fire to fight fire you risk getting burned.  And now I'm even angrier about how patronizing this is, just like Oliver was with Thea. To me, it wasn't about helping Felicity or even understanding her or what she's going through, it's about Diggle trying to keep Felicity the person she was in s1,  forcing Felicity back into that box that's comfortable for him.

And telling her that her superpower is a stereotypical female attribute requiring nothing but passivity instead of the degrees that she worked so hard to get or the hacking she has done for the team just makes me ragey.

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe it's because we get so few Felicity/Diggle scenes, but I also feel like a problem with their conversation is that it was kind of short? It felt like the show spent more time having Diggle talk to Tinah about her apartment/job searches. 

[LeighAn]

Rory didn't point anything out to Oliver in 5x12. Felicity not giving a shit that Diggle was torturing a man for information pointed it out to Oliver. If anything Rory only confirmed what Oliver already suspected. 

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Rory didn't point anything out to Oliver in 5x12. Felicity not giving a shit that Diggle was torturing a man for information pointed it out to Oliver. If anything Rory only confirmed what Oliver already suspected. 

Before the torture moment, Rory told Oliver Felicity crossed a line. Oliver asked "what?" Then they were interrupted. They never returned to that conversation. 

[way2interested]

42 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

From the Spoiler Discussion Thread:

We're probably always going to disagree about this but I think that Oliver hasn't noticed Felicity as a person since 505 

Agree to disagree on the point, but I just don't like the phrase "noticed as a person." I think it's exaggerated, and you can make your same point by just saying, "I don't think Oliver has noticed Felicity enough" or "Oliver doesn't seem to be as concerned with Felicity as he should be" without throwing around the idea that Oliver sees her as less than a person. I can even agree with some of your argument in that case.

[statsgirl]

I think he sees that she is a person. But there is a difference in seeing someone you work with and don't ask about other than very superficially (You have a cold?  I hope you feel better soon (don't get the germs on me)), and someone about whom you care how they're doing. The best example I can give is when Felicity was obviously uncomfortable with anything to do with Oliver's relationship with Susan and Oliver was all "Fix it. I don't have time."  I don't think he spared a passing thought for her at all.  And yet she still gave him a pep talk about the impeachment.  When was the last time Oliver showed that much concern for Felicity?

It's like in 512. Rory cued him there was something wrong with Felicity, then he noticed it himself when Diggle was beating up the guy so he gave both of them a speech, never asking Felicity if there is something wrong, and then assumed it was all good. He's a busy guy with being mayor, meeting Laurel's not-dying request and worrying if Susan loves him.  He doesn't have time to figure out if Felicity has a problem much less  help her through it.

Edited March 4, 2017 by statsgirl

[kismet]

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I don't get it. If the drop in ratings last season wasn't attributed to breaking Olicity up, then why would TPTB attribute this seasons's drop in ratings* to lack of Olicity enough to make them change their plans?

*Worth noting that the drop within this season is ~0.2, ~300k viewers, which would be within the range of normal fluctuations. 

For me, I believe the writers may have interpreted the drops in s4 as natural after killing off LL. Or perhaps a blip that would repair itself once they had their cool finale and their amazing NEWness of s5. I firmly believe that they never imagined the ratings drops would stick and become the new normal.

It's the fact that the ratings continue to slip, and the show is losing viewers and outside positive interest - I assume TPTB & the writers are beginning to reach for the PANIC button, alas bringing back Olicity sooner (at least in interviews) than they planned. Because if they analyze it they would see some of the trends that we have all mentioned in the ratings threads which relate back to the separating of O/F and pivoting away from OTA.

I fully expect a repeat of the "it started with the 3 of us" scene, only this time the newbies will be left in the dark. I also fully imagine a hybrid of s1/2, where we might get a random O/F sex scene, followed by a confession of love/promise, maybe a tribute to s3 by using it as part of the plan to defeat Prometheus - but then we have to wait until s6 for the situation to fully resolve itself. And if Susan survives, I fully expect her to be watching from the window during their physical reunion. However, that also means I fully expect her to die suddenly in the finale. I just hope the season doesn't end on OQ's crying over her limp body.

SO we have a summer of will they/won't they renaissance of Olicity. Free publicity and buzz again. If the ratings had not been on the fritz, I don't think we would have had the O/F sex scene. Or perhaps our major April sex scene would have been between OQ/Susan, similar to SL in s3. And the O/F convo would have been more vague, like early s2 with hidden messages but overall neutral on it's intent for people not looking for it.

However, if everything had gone to plan and stayed stable in the ratings. The sex scene would have definitely been S/O. But the flirty convos given to OQ/Tinah, with hidden messages for those who want to see it. And FS would have stayed blatantly hidden from pivotal emotional moments.

[Tazmania]

I think the writers are treating Felicity exactly like they treated Laurel as Oliver's ex. In fact, even worse, he at least felt guilty about cheating on her with her sister and Tommy dying but with Felicity, he doesn't even feel any remorse for either lying to her about BMD or killing her boyfriend. For him, Felicity is like Siri ... just there to assist him and solve his problems ... I agree, he has stopped seeing her as a person the minute she stopped being his girlfriend/fiancée 

[legaleagle53]

13 minutes ago, Tazmania said:

I think the writers are treating Felicity exactly like they treated Laurel as Oliver's ex. In fact, even worse, he at least felt guilty about cheating on her with her sister and Tommy dying but with Felicity, he doesn't even feel any remorse for either lying to her about BMD or killing her boyfriend. For him, Felicity is like Siri ... just there to assist him and solve his problems ... I agree, he has stopped seeing her as a person the minute she stopped being his girlfriend/fiancée 

But he did feel remorse about accidentally killing Billy.  It was Felicity herself who insisted that it wasn't his fault and that Prometheus was to blame.

[wonderwall]

I guess you can say he stopped thinking of Felicity as a person after they broke up... Even though he was hopeful that he and Felicity would get back together in the beginning of the season, why he was heartbroken by what he did to Billy because of how it affected Felicity in 509, why he told her (as well as Diggle) that she's better than him as a person, why he ran straight first to Felicity in Russia because he knew she was in danger, why he ran to save Felicity instead of trying to catch Prometheus in 510.....

I guess none of that stuff matters though in the end because Oliver hates Felicity and doesn't find her to be a person anymore for whatever twisted reason? Lol

Edited March 5, 2017 by wonderwall

[kismet]

I don't think OQ has stopped seeing FS as a person. I do think the writers have stopped writing FS as a person, and OQ as a person for that matter. So it's a more universal problem for Arrow. The writers no longer write people. They write PLOT. So it has a way of reflecting back poorly on their characters, because they don't do things that typical humans do, like have emotions or conversations.

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, kismet said:

I do think the writers have stopped writing FS as a person

Because she's making bad decisions, isn't opening up after a tragedy, and keeping to herself? I know many people like Felicity. I don't think she's less of a person because of how she acts when she's trying to protect herself. In fact, I feel like they're making her character a bit more dynamic in 5B. 

5A is a different story though. I was disappointed with what they did with her there.

[Chaser]

For me personally, I don't understand this whole "Oliver clearly doesn't love her or care about her" mindset. I think it's a super dramatic reading of the show. 

Oliver spent S2 in love with Felicity but no one knew that until the finale/3x01 cause it was a Plot point (He dated Sara! He ignored her for episodes!)

Felicity spent S3 in love with Oliver but there was a hell of a lot of doubt and side eye at her here because of a lot of situations with Ray (She didn't tell Oliver about the company renaming! Hanging on Ray in front of Oliver! Going back to Ray after he went after Oliver and lied to her! Staying by Ray in the hospital when the Team is in crisis!)

This is what they do and have done for seasons. Plot hasn't caught up to them yet. 

[lemotomato]

34 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Felicity spent S3 in love with Oliver but there was a hell of a lot of doubt and side eye at her here because of a lot of situations with Ray (She didn't tell Oliver about the company renaming! Hanging on Ray in front of Oliver! Going back to Ray after he went after Oliver and lied to her! Staying by Ray in the hospital when the Team is in crisis!)

Don't forget how she (and the team) were heartless for just giving up on Oliver in 321 and not immediately storming into Nanda Parbat to rescue him. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by lemotomato

[kismet]

24 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Because she's making bad decisions, isn't opening up after a tragedy, and keeping to herself? I know many people like Felicity. I don't think she's less of a person because of how she acts when she's trying to protect herself. In fact, I feel like they're making her character a bit more dynamic in 5B. 

5A is a different story though. I was disappointed with what they did with her there.

My point was that they have stopped writing all the characters as people. It really has nothing to do with FS's characterization. I honestly don't see any characterization for her, just like I don't for mostly everybody. Every Arrow character is getting the same non-person treatment. It's all plot, plot and plot. But I know you love FS, so you probably do spend more time piecing together their plot points to get a resemblance of characterization. You're putting in the work to make it seem like she has become more dynamic. The writers certainly aren't putting the effort in. Because I feel nothing as viewer when it comes to her (& others) as a character or a person, because I don't feel like putting in an effort. I want to watch a show, not piece together a connect-the-dot pattern. That most likely the writers will rip up on a whim.

[LeighAn]

42 minutes ago, kismet said:

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by LeighAn

[thegirlsleuth]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think he sees that she is a person. But there is a difference in seeing someone you work with and don't ask about other than very superficially (You have a cold?  I hope you feel better soon (don't get the germs on me)), and someone about whom you care how they're doing. The best example I can give is when Felicity was obviously uncomfortable with anything to do with Oliver's relationship with Susan and Oliver was all "Fix it. I don't have time."  I don't think he spared a passing thought for her at all.  And yet she still gave him a pep talk about the impeachment.  When was the last time Oliver showed that much concern for Felicity?

It's like in 512. Rory cued him there was something wrong with Felicity, then he noticed it himself when Diggle was beating up the guy so he gave both of them a speech, never asking Felicity if there is something wrong, and then assumed it was all good. He's a busy guy with being mayor, meeting Laurel's not-dying request and worrying if Susan loves him.  He doesn't have time to figure out if Felicity has a problem much less  help her through it.

I'll just make a small addition to the 512 comment:  At the end of the show, Oliver and Diggle have a nice heart to heart in which Diggle says that he and Felicity are no better than Oliver, but the three of them make each other better.   And Felicity was nowhere nearby.  They were having this OTA moment without one member, and to me, it came off as uncaring.

I think Oliver loved Felicity.  As a shipper who understands writing tropes, I think he probably still does.  That said, he has shown very little care for who she is, and they only have conversations about what she can do for him.  I have my IT department buddies to talk about Arrow with at the office, and they think that Felicity and Ollie (as they call him) are completely dead, romantically.  And they're disappointed!  They liked the two of them together. But they took the Big Laurel filled 100th and O/F's general lack of interaction as the end of the romance.  

One of them is a Felicity/Rory shipper, bless his heart.

Edited March 5, 2017 by thegirlsleuth
typo

[statsgirl]

That's kind of sad about your IT buddies, although yay for the Rory/Felicity shipper.  The show does such either/or storylines that when they pivot back to O/F, and I really think they will, it will come out of nowhere for a lot of people and that will weaken their belief in the show.  The writers need to do better set-ups for the emotional beats.

2 hours ago, kismet said:

However, if everything had gone to plan and stayed stable in the ratings. The sex scene would have definitely been S/O. But the flirty convos given to OQ/Tinah, with hidden messages for those who want to see it. And FS would have stayed blatantly hidden from pivotal emotional moments.

I agree with a lot of what you said but uh uh to the S/O sex.  That isn't going to sell any tickets.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm confused! Do we get a sex scene every year? There was none last year was there?

There was the Oliver back from running one which wasn't huge and the implied one from the ep where Felicity got a bit snappy. There wasn't a big one though right?

[Sunshine]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm confused! Do we get a sex scene every year? There was none last year was there?

There was the Oliver back from running one which wasn't huge and the implied one from the ep where Felicity got a bit snappy. There wasn't a big one though right?

No.  Most are pre or post-coital.  3.20 Was the exception.

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think he sees that she is a person. But there is a difference in seeing someone you work with and don't ask about other than very superficially (You have a cold?  I hope you feel better soon (don't get the germs on me)), and someone about whom you care how they're doing. The best example I can give is when Felicity was obviously uncomfortable with anything to do with Oliver's relationship with Susan and Oliver was all "Fix it. I don't have time."  I don't think he spared a passing thought for her at all.  And yet she still gave him a pep talk about the impeachment.  When was the last time Oliver showed that much concern for Felicity?

It's like in 512. Rory cued him there was something wrong with Felicity, then he noticed it himself when Diggle was beating up the guy so he gave both of them a speech, never asking Felicity if there is something wrong, and then assumed it was all good. He's a busy guy with being mayor, meeting Laurel's not-dying request and worrying if Susan loves him.  He doesn't have time to figure out if Felicity has a problem much less  help her through it.

I do think after 505 that Oliver for the majority of the time (with a handful of exceptions) has treated Felicity as if she was just his co-worker but I don't think that means that he's stopped caring, just that he's maintaining a separation of his emotions by compartmentalizing their current relationship as primarily that of co-workers.

 I don't like it, but it's really not unlike how he reacted in the early part of season three after he decided they couldn't be together.  He comes off as cold, distant and yes, uncaring but we find out later that he's thinking about her, even dreaming about her, constantly.  He just keeps that part of him walled off from how he treats her most of the time.  And I think it's a self defense method because even though I do think Oliver is the one at fault for the break up, I do also think he did and still does agonize over what he's lost and treating Felicity in what seems like a perfunctory manner is him keeping those feelings in check by keeping some distance between them because anything else allows all the love and longing and pain because he screwed it up and can't have her to flair up and that gets in the way of everything.  

[dtissagirl]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I do think after 505 that Oliver for the majority of the time (with a handful of exceptions) has treated Felicity as if she was just his co-worker but I don't think that means that he's stopped caring, just that he's maintaining a separation of his emotions by compartmentalizing their current relationship as primarily that of co-workers.

 I don't like it, but it's really not unlike how he reacted in the early part of season three after he decided they couldn't be together.  He comes off as cold, distant and yes, uncaring but we find out later that he's thinking about her, even dreaming about her, constantly.  He just keeps that part of him walled off from how he treats her most of the time.  And I think it's a self defense method because even though I do think Oliver is the one at fault for the break up, I do also think he did and still does agonize over what he's lost and treating Felicity in what seems like a perfunctory manner is him keeping those feelings in check by keeping some distance between them because anything else allows all the love and longing and pain because he screwed it up and can't have her to flair up and that gets in the way of everything.  

Did you just manage to fanwank the constipated robot schitck into characterization? I think you're my favorite person.

[Password]

Yeah I'm actually kind of blown away by that characterisation. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

7 minutes ago, Password said:

Yeah I'm actually kind of blown away by that characterisation. 

If the show writers read that they'd probably feel the same. LOL

[dtissagirl]

Oliver's going on 13 months now without pooping because of Felicity? And that's why his face is permanently stuck in smell the fart mode for the past dozen episodes? That maybe could work for me. They'll have to connect his lack of bowel momevents to Felicity leaving him in text first, but it could work for me.

[tv echo]

18 hours ago, theOAfc said:

I find it amusing that most of the times its male fans saying that olicity is over for good while female fans usually say they will get together eventually. I noticed it in different corners of the internet. A guy whould say olicity is done while a girl would say its tv and he is naive to think olicity is really done. Not sure if its because many male arrow fans on the internet are more possible to be comic purists who hate olicity so they somehow hope rather than expect olicity to be over for good. 

I'm surprised that more comic purists aren't complaining about Chase not being the Vigilante.  Or if they are, I'm not aware of it.

Edited March 5, 2017 by tv echo

[Password]

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

If the show writers read that they'd probably feel the same. LOL

Gahahahaha! 

[Chaser]

3 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Oliver's going on 13 months now without pooping because of Felicity? And that's why his face is permanently stuck in smell the fart mode for the past dozen episodes? That maybe could work for me. They'll have to connect his lack of bowel momevents to Felicity leaving him in text first, but it could work for me.

I thought SA did with his response to Oliver being a dick. He listed his fiancée walking out on him as a reason.

I have zero idea if the writers are actually planning on connecting anything in regards to his break up with Felicity to his stupidity with Reporter (doubt it honestly), but it made me wonder if SA is.

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I thought SA did with his response to Oliver being a dick. He listed his fiancée walking out on him as a reason.

I'm at a point that post-game storysplaining isn't enough for me. Oliver needs to blurt out he hasn't slept since Felicity left him, or something. It needs to be diegetic.

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

 Oliver needs to blurt out he hasn't slept since Felicity left him, or something. It needs to be diegetic.

Well... We have 8 episodes left. Hopefully we'll see that coming soon.

If not then I call bullshit but whatever lol

[dtissagirl]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Well... We have 8 episodes left. Hopefully we'll see that coming soon.

If not then I call bullshit but whatever lol

I hope so too.The quicker Oliver poops, the better.

[Chaser]

They didn't let Felicity talk till 3x20. I'm thinking Oliver is in the same boat.

Im going to need this monologue to be the best written thing this show has ever put out. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, Chaser said:

Im going to need this monologue to be the best written thing this show has ever put out. 

416 vows level good for me will suffice