Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[SmallScreenDiva]

But we already did get common area shenanigans! :) 

 

 

The thing with Thea and DJ Douchebag is Oliver was still living at the apartment at that point and there was every possibility of him just walking in. So yeah, ewww! But now that this has become the Loft o' Love (thank you, Laura Hurley), I absolutely have no problems with living room, kitchen, in front of that wonderful fireplace shenanigans on top of bedroom exercises. I hope they brought with them that nice big bed they had in Ivy Town.

[apinknightmare]

Right, but who cares about common area shenanigans when the only people living in the house are involved. Banging a dude on the couch when your brother can walk in is a big NO.

[Chaser]

Padded headboard.

[tarotx]

Thea didn't stay dead so the injury is a bad memory but it's not a haunting one. I mean I get why Thea would hate it but Olicity wouldn't have the same nightmares about the location. 

[Genki]

Also Thea was staying there at the end of last season, for a while after the attack, 1 month at least. 

[Morrigan2575]

Also Thea was staying there at the end of last season, for a while after the attack, 1 month at least.

Which seems to indicate that her departure from the loft might be tied to her loss of control/darkness issues. Or they just tossed it out as an explanation for why they were recycling the Loft from Thea/Oliver's home to Oliver/Felicity's home.

[AyChihuahua]

Which seems to indicate that her departure from the loft might be tied to her loss of control/darkness issues. Or they just tossed it out as an explanation for why they were recycling the Loft from Thea/Oliver's home to Oliver/Felicity's home.

I'm going with the latter.  

[tarotx]

Thea freaking out at the Loft once she was staying there alone is believable imo.

 

And on the show her staying with Laurel is a win win. They can have them be close and "family" just with them being roommates so no real screen time needs to address that. Plus it gives Laurel her "Sin" to Sara's Sin. A young women to help mentor. 

[wonderwall]

My question is though... If they want to set up a mentor/mentee thing with LL/TQ (which I have no objections to, tbh), then why hasn't LL realized that something's wrong with Thea? If they're supposed to be close, why hasn't LL realized in 5 months what OQ realized in 5 minutes?

 

Honestly, if I cared about LL, I'd be worried about the execution of this friendship. 

[bijoux]

Which seems to indicate that her departure from the loft might be tied to her loss of control/darkness issues. Or they just tossed it out as an explanation for why they were recycling the Loft from Thea/Oliver's home to Oliver/Felicity's home.

I would really like it to be the former, which would indicate that Laurel at least has noticed something off with Thea if John unexplicably hadn't. I could understand him shutting Oliver out on the issue but that's all we got from him on the matter. No touching base with Thea or mentioning it to either Laurel or Lyla. He's already had Thea at his home while Oliver was with the League, she had an open invitatin there and she's now part of the team. All these months that they must've been spending time together and he didn't notice anything? Not like John at all.

[EmeraldArcher]

I guess my impression of the loft scene could be influenced by poor exposition, and Guggie's explanation certainly heightened my anxiety. I know the EPS have said they're going to explore Olicity as a couple, so I'll just try to relax and enjoy. It's hard, you guys--S3 burned us all.

The point up thread about Oliver being on board with living there comforted me as well. His reminder about Thea be stabbed there would have probably led to an argument or a guiltier Felicity if living there was a serious point of contention.

I still think that Felicity's secret and distraction while they were traveling and their different life goals (for right now, anyway) might linger and factored more into his shelving the proposal than his reticence at donning the hood again. It might not be fair, given he seemed to unilaterally decide that they were both giving up the heroics to go away, but I also can't blame him for cleaving to the illusion of the peaceful life he thought they were creating together. He deserves peace. I can even see those stereotypically awful neighbors' appeal--they obviously think he's wonderful, whereas his closest/longest friends constantly berate him.

Felicity seemed off in this episode, and it could be the writers overcorrecting and might not impact her relationship with Oliver. I hope the next few episodes correct the course so I can enjoy Olicity fully without worrying. I'm very much enjoying their intimacy and connection. All.Those.Olicity.Kisses!

[wingster55]

My question is though... If they want to set up a mentor/mentee thing with LL/TQ (which I have no objections to, tbh), then why hasn't LL realized that something's wrong with Thea? If they're supposed to be close, why hasn't LL realized in 5 months what OQ realized in 5 minutes?

Honestly, if I cared about LL, I'd be worried about the execution of this friendship.

We don't know what she knows or doesn't to be fair.

[tarotx]

Plus Laurel and Diggle have slowly watched Thea's LP side affects come. It's different coming in and seeing all the change at once.

[wonderwall]

We don't know what she knows or doesn't to be fair.

I hope they show that she noticed. If they don't show it before the resolution of that SL then it's safe to assume she didn't know. 

[AyChihuahua]

 

The point up thread about Oliver being on board with living there comforted me as well. His reminder about Thea be stabbed there would have probably led to an argument or a guiltier Felicity if living there was a serious point of contention.

Why should she feel one iota guilty when it had to have been Oliver who suggested living there?  And he is the one who joked about getting a rug, not her...she made a horrified face.  He's apparently not stressed about it at all, because he made a joke about getting a rug to cover the spot where his sister nearly bled to death.  I really don't understand how Felicity did anything whatsoever wrong re the loft (I do understand how she did something wrong re helping the team, that just doesn't bother me and didn't seem to bother Oliver, especially once she clearly stated she loves being with him, wherever they are).

[Chaser]

I was actually kind of surprised by the Laurel and Thea relationship. Based off of early tweets, I expected there to be more than what we saw. Some conversation about how close they had gotten or moment to show something interesting was developing there - possibly in relation to the LP. They were teammates but you wouldn't have known they were roomies until Oliver said something.

 

But the episode had a lot of ground to cover. Oliver/Felicity and Oliver/Diggle were the relationships that needed to be established most. Then I would say Oliver/Thea for her arc and Lance/Laurel got a line or two about their status. I'm sure we will get more of an idea about Laurel and Thea in the upcoming episodes.

[EmeraldArcher]

Why should she feel one iota guilty when it had to have been Oliver who suggested living there?  And he is the one who joked about getting a rug, not her...she made a horrified face.  He's apparently not stressed about it at all, because he made a joke about getting a rug to cover the spot where his sister nearly bled to death.  I really don't understand how Felicity did anything whatsoever wrong re the loft (I do understand how she did something wrong re helping the team, that just doesn't bother me and didn't seem to bother Oliver, especially once she clearly stated she loves being with him, wherever they are).

Nah. I was reassuring myself by realizing that the hypothetical scenario in which Felicity was being insensitive with her excitement about living in the loft that Thea abandoned after having been brutally attacked and left for dead did NOT actually happen. It seemed her comment about the amazing loft was immediately followed by Oliver hiding the ring. I erroneously connected the two, based on the timing. Others have convinced me that the exposition was to blame, not imaginary underlying tension between Oliver and Felicity about living there. I was actually reassuring myself because neither seemed angry or guilty--both were glad to live there together.

I just feel like something about Felicity was off at times. Some have called it excitement to be back, but I feel like the writers made her come across a little insensitive in certain contexts. Hopefully, it's corrected soon.

Sometimes people feel guilt when they shouldn't, and I can imagine that as returning to and staying in Star City might be one of the first hurdles/negotiations in their otherwise blissful relationship since leaving together, both might worry about strong-arming the other. It's just human nature and often part of balancing what we want and compromising for someone we love.

[dtissagirl]

I had been wondering if viewer mindset was gonna have to adapt this season with the tone shifting, and this discussion going on here is making me wonder it again.

 

Morrigan2575 quoted one of the reviews in the News thread, that said it's like they went from The Dark Knight to Smallville, and I can see that too. It probably helps me that TDK is my least favorite kind of tone in superhero stories. Smallville's more of my jam [of notice: I love The Flash's tone more than I love The Flash's stories].

 

But I think the new directive for Arrow this season is the jokes are gonna be jokes -- which means some of them will sound ill-thought out or insensitive [i'll be the first one to complain if they're offensive] -- but it's because of the kinder gentler Arrow.

 

I don't know. I'm finding this discussion fascinating. And I guess Felicity is the embodiment of the new tone, so it'll be her lines that'll get the deeper scrutiny.

Edited October 10, 2015 by dtissagirl

[statsgirl]

Felicity was really in an impossible position during their trip away.  Oliver, who tends to be 100%either/or in anything he does, decided that he was going to completely drop anyything to do with being a vigilante and just be a tourist.  He didn't ask Felicity what she wanted though.

 

Felicity liked being a vigilante and helping to save the city, as she said in s2.  And while Thea could replace Oliver shooting arrows and Diggle and Laurel take over the fighting, once Ray blew up there was no one to replace Felicity. No one to set up computers at the new lair and program them with all her search software (which hopefully she had stored on the cloud), no one to do the kind of searches that keep the Team in the field safe.  Oliver was right that with the new heroes in town, they didn't need him. But they did need Felicity.

 

And once they settled on Ivy Town, Felicity was being slowly cooked herself.  She stayed because that is what Oliver wanted and she loved him that much.

 

She was All In to the relationship. She just wasn't All In to suburbia in Ivy Town.  And Oliver knew that, he knew because he tried to calm her down after the bumper sticker comment.

 

It's not like Oliver didn't know that aspects of their life was infuriating to Felicity.  She was clutching his arm for support when the neighbors made her want to scream and he clasped her arm in restraint when she was going sarcastic on their guests.  He wasn't oblivious like the neighbors.  I think with Palmer Tech both of them had to know their time away was on borrowed time.  She was stalling on going to face that and he was fine with letting her because to go back to Star no longer ling City would mean facing reality and the mess left behind. 

 

So he had to know at some level that his suburban fantasy already was threatened. 

Or at least he had to know that she wasn't completely happy with this life.

 

Oliver was living out what he thought was his fantasy.  He assumed that it was Felicity's too.  She loved him, she didn't want to hurt him, and so she tried to balance her two lives, one a simple citizen and the other a secret identity.  She had the balance that Oliver couldn't find, bouncing between being The Arrow or being Oliver Queen.

 

Maybe she felt like she couldn't tell Oliver what she honestly felt.  She thought she couldn't tell him the truth about how she was feeling.  That is what should be worrying him, not that part of her staying in Starling City.  More important than both people being the same in a relationship is how they deal with it when they aren't.

 

I think the ring was put away (into a dish in plain sight???) because Oliver needed to figure how things were going to work now.  Going to the farmers' market in Ivy Town is one thing; being a vigilante and CEO in Star City is another.  And Oliver has always been hesitant to change things before he's thought everything through.

 

I know that building a new set is why Oliver is ok living in the loft...but really I find it really disgusting that both are ok with it. And disrespectful to Thea. Maybe a line of finding a new place soon is needed?

I think they should have changed things up a bit and make it a new condo in another building.  Wasn't there a set for Ray's apartment last season? 

 

There should have been a line that Thea sold it because that was where she lived with Malcolm and was stabbed unless she's okay with that and the reason she's living with Laurel

is Lazarus Pit related.

.  What does it say about Oliver that he's okay living in the condo where his baby sister had been stabbed and bled almost to death?

Although SA's casual delivery of the line "Maybe we can put a rug over it" is really funny.

Edited October 10, 2015 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Oliver and Felicity living there, since Thea lived there herself for close to a month (or more, since we don't know when she moved in with Laurel) after Ra's stabbed her. Maybe we'll find out that she moved in with Laurel not because she was necessarily bothered by living in that apartment, but because she decided she didn't like living alone, or she liked going home with someone to decompress after a night out fighting bad guys. Maybe Laurel asked her to stay, who knows.

It won't bother me personally if they never explain it.

Edited October 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

I think they should have changed things up a bit and make it a new condo in another building.  Wasn't there a set for Ray's apartment last season?

 

Ray didn't have an apartment set, they redressed the Palmer Tech set to function as his apartment for that scene.

[statsgirl]

Poor Ray. I guess his suit cost so much, there was not enough left over to give him his own apartment.

[AyChihuahua]

How is it disrespectful to Thea if she told them they could live there, which it seems a safe guess she did?

 

I don't know if my complete inability to understand any issues with them living in the loft sans Thea is because I hate passive-aggressive behavior, or if I'm just stupid.  I cannot overstate how much I hate it when Person A asks Person B for something, Person B says yes, but secretly is enraged that Person A dared to ask.  (And this would be even worse, because Person B would suggest doing the thing and then be upset that Person A agreed to that suggestion.)  I would very much doubt that living there was Felicity's idea rather than Oliver's, therefore I see zero reason she should feel guilty about agreeing to live there.  I mean, imagine that train of thought from Oliver: "Hey Felicity, I think we should live in Thea's loft.  She is cool with it."  [Meanwhile, inside he's thinking to himself, "How dare Felicity agree, at my suggestion, to live in Thea's loft!!!  She should know, through her known mind-reading powers, that I don't really want to live there, because I'm so upset about Thea being skewered there!  Now I shall make a joke to make her think I'm not at all upset about the Thea-skewering thing, but if she can't read my mind on that one, and instead takes it as a definite indication I'm totally fine with it, I shall secretly judge her!"]

 

And the same goes for Thea.  Oliver lived there before, so it was probably a very casual discussion: "Hey Thea, you cool with me coming back to live in the loft, and bringing my very serious girlfriend Felicity, who you know well and with whom I have lived for the last 5-6 months?"  "Sure Ollie, it's no problem especially since I don't really live there anymore, since I've been mostly living at Laurel's."  [Meanwhile, inside she's thinking to herself "How dare Oliver ask to live in my loft, where he lived up until 5-6 months ago, and where most of his stuff still is!!!  He should know, through his mind-reading powers, that I don't really want him and his hoochie all up in my space, especially since the existence of the spot where I was stabbed upsets me, even though the whole point is that I'm not there to see that spot!"]

 

I mean do people really think like that?  I don't think they do, and specifically I don't think either Oliver or Thea do.

Edited October 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

Many people live in the same house after trauma events. I was attacked in my home and my family just redecorated. But not everybody feels the same way about these kinds of events. If Thea had stayed dead I might feel different but she's alive. 

[AyChihuahua]

Many people live in the same house after trauma events. I was attacked in my home and my family just redecorated. But not everybody feels the same way about these kinds of events. If Thea had stayed dead I might feel different but she's alive. 

I'm really sorry to hear that happened to you!

 

Just to be clear, I am fine with Thea living there or not living there.  She is the one who was skewered.  I am only talking about Oliver/Felicity.  If Oliver was upset about it, he needed to use his words to do something other than tell Felicity they should live there.  And if Thea was upset about them living there, she needed to use her words to tell them "No, you can't live there."  And it's not as if Thea has ever been the shy and retiring type, with anyone, including Oliver.  

[Morrigan2575]

I mean, imagine that train of thought from Oliver: "Hey Felicity, I think we should live in Thea's loft. She is cool with it." [Meanwhile, inside he's thinking to himself, "How dare Felicity agree, at my suggestion, to live in Thea's loft!!! She should know, through her known mind-reading powers, that I don't really want to live there, because I'm so upset about Thea being skewered there! Now I shall make a joke to make her think I'm not at all upset about the Thea-skewering thing, but if she can't read my mind on that one, and instead takes it as a definite indication I'm totally fine with it, I shall secretly judge her!"]

I have to admit I'm rather confused by the whole discussion. I don't remember anything in the show that suggested moving in was Felicity's idea, that Oliver didn't want to live there or that Felicity was insensitive to Oliver's feelings (that one blows my mind).

The way the scene played out, to me, suggested that it was Oliver's idea to move in since he's the one that talked to Thea about it. Felicity just went along with Oliver's suggestion and felt some guilt about it because it resulted (in her mind) in Thea moving out.

As for the stabbing/rug comment, maybe I read it wrong but it seemed like Oliver was almost desperately trying to please her about living in the loft.

[AyChihuahua]

I have to admit I'm rather confused by the whole discussion. I don't remember anything in the show that suggested moving in was Felicity's idea, that Oliver didn't want to live there or that Felicity was insensitive to Oliver's feelings (that one blows my mind).

The way the scene played out, to me, suggested that it was Oliver's idea to move in since he's the one that talked to Thea about it. Felicity just went along with Oliver's suggestion and felt some guilt about it because it resulted (in her mind) in Thea moving out.

As for the stabbing/rug comment, maybe I read it wrong but it seemed like Oliver was almost desperately trying to please her about living in the loft.

It's been suggested upthread.

[Morrigan2575]

It's been suggested upthread.

Oh yeah, I know you're just responding to another post. I just don't get where that came from because I didn't see any real issues in that scene.

[AyChihuahua]

Hey, now everyone knows I hate passive-aggressiveness, therefore my "Quentin-Lance-is-dead-party's-at-my-house!" offer is sincere!

[EmeraldArcher]

Sorry! I think I might have started this really confusing conversation.

 

To be clear, I was reacting to the order of the dialogue in the scene: 1. Felicity mentions feeling like she should feel bad about living in the loft and then professes her delight with the loft. 2. Oliver hides the ring. 3. Oliver immediately points out the spot where Thea nearly died after the brutal attack as an explanation why she no longer lives there. 4. Felicity blanches. 5. Oliver jokingly (?) suggests they cover the spot with a rug. 6. They kiss (the best part!).

 

I abhor passive-aggressiveness, too. It was just a weird order for things to occur without me suspecting that something was off, and then I read Guggie's interview in the spoilers thread that indicated that scene was being used to show how their relationship had changed since Ivy Town. Maybe he was simply referring to Oliver's change in plans 

regarding the proposal and his hiding the ring

and nothing more.

 

I realize introducing "guilt" into the conversation was even more confusing. Again, it sounded weird because Felicity's comments included something like "I should feel bad about living in Thea's place, but it's so amazing" (I admit I'm paraphrasing, as I can't re-watch right now) and then Oliver [unintentionally?] reinforced that notion by reminding her about the attack on Thea.

 

The only guilty parties in all of this are the writers! (and maybe me, because I'm not clear enough about these vague impressions to try to discuss them online)

[Guest]

I feel like maybe there's too much thought going into this 'moving into Thea's old loft' situation. They're only moving in there because they're too cheap to build a new set. It's really that simple, IMO. I don't think we're meant to think much beyond that. And I don't see why Felicity should be classed as disrespectful when she's a) not the only one moving into the loft and b) made a comment that she felt guilty about it. Like seriously. I hope Felicity doesn't breathe incorrectly next episode. Yikes!

 

Also, I'm just not seeing the same issues as some have with Felicity lying to Oliver about helping the team behind his back. I don't think this is a big problematic thing. No, she shouldn't have lied but it's not as if she did it out of spite. She did it because she loved seeing him happy and thought telling him might change that. Also shows how much she loves him when she lived a boring life in Ivy Town, one that she was willing to go back to, simply because Oliver was happy there. I'm kind of glad these are the kinds of issues they're having because we get to see them talk it out in a mature and fun way. I still think their 'fight' scene was one of their best scenes to date. 

 

As for the proposal being put on hold? They haven't even discussed if they want kids yet. That's the kind of thing you're supposed to talk about before you get married and I think that topic coming up was the first thing that maybe clued Oliver in on it being the wrong time. He had a future planned out with Felicity but now that future has changed and their relationship needs to adapt to it. He still wants to marry her. The intent is there. They just need to figure out some things first. I'm so glad. It was too soon anyway. 

[AyChihuahua]

Also, I'm just not seeing the same issues as some have with Felicity lying to Oliver about helping the team behind his back. I don't think this is a big problematic thing. No, she shouldn't have lied but it's not as if she did it out of spite. She did it because she loved seeing him happy and thought telling him might change that. Also shows how much she loves him when she lived a boring life in Ivy Town, one that she was willing to go back to, simply because Oliver was happy there. I'm kind of glad these are the kinds of issues they're having because we get to see them talk it out in a mature and fun way. I still think their 'fight' scene was one of their best scenes to date. 

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with her fibbing to get out of activities while helping the team/not admitting she was helping the team, and I genuinely didn't get the impression that Oliver did, either.  I think, in-show, the reason he hasn't proposed is just that their living situation has changed and he wants to get used to it first, which seems entirely reasonable on his part to me (yes, I am OKAY with something Oliver did).  And their "fight," especially the Bali moment, was adorable.  

 

If he'd dumped her again bc he thought he couldn't be with her and vigilante, I'd have been outtathere.

[EmeraldArcher]

Their "fight" was pretty cute. I think one of the reasons it was so adorable was because EBR seemed to slip into the goofy-voiced playfulness she sometimes does during interviews, but that I haven't really seen on the show.

 

I really like that they're smiling as they kiss, both in Ivy Town and in the loft. It's nice to see joy in their romance.

[Guest]

O/F are better in a relationship than even I anticipated. They compliment each other so well. I want to keep them!

[bijoux]

I mean do people really think like that?  I don't think they do, and specifically I don't think either Oliver or Thea do.

Oh, there are absolutely people who think like that. But no, Oliver and Thea are not those kind of people. Oliver was having an honest conversation with Felicity 10 minutes earlier in episode time, and Thea has always cut through the bullshit. Roy breaking up with her? No, you're not.

[BkWurm1]

To be clear, I was reacting to the order of the dialogue in the scene: 1. Felicity mentions feeling like she should feel bad about living in the loft and then professes her delight with the loft. 2. Oliver hides the ring. 3. Oliver immediately points out the spot where Thea nearly died after the brutal attack as an explanation why she no longer lives there. 4. Felicity blanches. 5. Oliver jokingly (?) suggests they cover the spot with a rug. 6. They kiss (the best part!).

 

Felicity expressed guilt over DISPLACING Thea but loved the loft. I think Oliver actually brought up Thea getting stabbed and living with Laurel because he wanted to reassure Felicity there was no need to feel any guilt about moving in to Thea's place or "forcing" Thea out since she really didn't like it there anymore and had already basically moved out.  Then Felicity made the face about the thought of where Thea was stabbed and then Oliver again smoothed her feelings, this time by saying they could cover up the reminder with a rug (problem solved). 

 

I get your concerns brought on by the MG interview.  It had me looking for hidden meanings too but I'm confident that there weren't any in that scene (as it seems you are now as well)  :)

 

For me, someone who has never experienced the feeling of violation and insecurity generated by anyone breaking in or attacking my space, I have a hard time understanding how they can be so casual about returning to the scene of the crime.  But these are people that regularly have experienced attack on their person and invasions on their spaces.  Oliver had the Manor broken into as well as the Loft.  Felicity has been attacked at work (both PT and QC) and how many times did someone bust into the Foundry? 

 

I have to think that their head space on these kind of things are just different.  They are under no illusion that they are perfectly safe anywhere so why be put to the bother of giving up your space to bad memories or fear?  From a practical standpoint, I do hope that Oliver has gone through the Loft and found ways to make it more secure that it had been before but otherwise, as long as it meets their wants and needs, why not stay there?  Plus, they both know that the Loft isn't the reason Thea was stabbed.  Ra's could have pulled that off no matter where she lived.  So, yes Thea was stabbed in that place, but it is also the place that Oliver sat on the floor eating popcorn and watching movies with his sister. 

 

As for the Merlyn thing, unless Thea has rejected his money, at this point, it's just her money and there is no reason to believe that Felicity wouldn't take over paying the month lease.  So guilt free it is.  ;)

[lemotomato]

Felicity also got kidnapped from her home twice, once in the 2.5 comics and then again in 3x05. Honestly, the most realistic response for all the characters would be to GTFO of Starling, because where haven't they been attacked? But the reality of the show is different.

[kismet]

I know that building a new set is why Oliver is ok living in the loft...but really I find it really disgusting that both are ok with it. And disrespectful to Thea. Maybe a line of finding a new place soon is needed?

I agree. I also don't understand why the writers couldn't just pretend that this new place looks exactly like Thea's loft. I mean we all know its the same set, but in story they could've spun it a little differently that didn't seem insensitive. Both OQ & FS were a lil insensitive in that moment. Not because they are insensitive people, but because the writers used the moment as dumb exposition instead of just overlooking the obvious. I mean they seem just fine with other stuff left unsaid or rushed over... I just see no upside in them living in Thea's loft, when it could have been another loft in the same unit & then its not awkward.

[BkWurm1]

Why is living there not respecting Thea?

[kismet]

I don't think living there is not respecting Thea. Didn't mean to imply that with my response, if it came across as that. It's just weird to willingly live in a loft where your sister was brutally nearly murdered and finds it difficult to live there herself. And I understand everyone has different levels of comfort & experience with this situation. And IRL there are a many extenuating circumstances or rationales as to why one might not move out of the apt. But on a TV show there are options.

 

But both OQ & FS are people of wealth. They could have swung staying in a hotel or finding their own place (which happens to look just like Thea's old loft). For me its more a writing flaw than a character flaw. I know that the only reason they are crashing in her loft is because they didn't want to build a new set. But the writers could have just played it off better as a different loft and avoided the whole living in your sister's loft scenario. I probably would have been fine not even knowing where they were staying in 401. Just show them waking up in a loft in 402. I guess for me I would have preferred more winksy jokes like doesn't Thea have the same fireplace, as opposed to carpets & blood stains. That part felt a little too soon even by Arrow standards. It was funny, I laughed at first and then felt the ugh of guilt.

 

I believed them when RP's apt looked a whole lot like PT only with paintings. I'm willing to buy a cheesy line to cover up a set reuse. My goodness in s3 I swear they fought every battle in the same warehouse. It just felt like from a character perspective it put a weird flavor to the return of O/F to SC, for plot purposes. It set up an odd dynamic. I honestly feel like it might have been better if TQ was living there at least for 1 episode, so its like she asked them to stay there. And then OQ notices something is wrong with his sister. Perhaps I am overthinking the scenario... but this is what happens when the writers use the move-in for plot exposition, it becomes part of the plot & characterization. So now I am wondering is there more behind the choice to have them move in to "the loft", rather than another random loft. It can be nothing, even though it is probably nothing.

[quarks]

Over on the Spoiler thread, the subject of a return to Oliver/Laurel has been brought up, and since nothing I have to say about it concerns spoilers, I thought I'd answer it here. I'm with Bkwurm1 on this - I don't think any seeds for a return to the Laurel/Oliver relationship have been planted, and I speak as someone who did see the (very rare) shippy moments between them last season. 

 

Only a few moments in the last episode could be even sort of read as shippy, and that's stretching it:

 

1. Yes, Laurel headed over to Oliver and Felicity to ask them to return - but, a) this was in part because of a lack of other characters who could do so. Quentin, Diggle and Malcolm didn't want Oliver to return, so no reason for them to go. Lyla is married to Diggle, so not really in the position to go get Oliver. Roy is off the show. Amanda Waller was willing to bomb Star City to the ground just a couple of seasons ago, so there's no reason to think that she'd interfere this time. Barry and Team Flash had their own issues, not to mention that, crossovers or not, having Team Flash tell Oliver that his city needs him is a bit awkward.  b) Laurel took Thea with her, and Oliver listened more intently to Thea and to Felicity. c) we later learned, in that same episode, that Felicity was aware of what was going on - but concealing what she was doing from Oliver. So it's very possible that one reason Laurel went in person was on Felicity's behalf - to help keep up the pretense that Felicity wasn't helping out the team.  That last point wasn't in the script, granted.

 

2. Laurel had her bones line again, but that seemed to me to be more Arrow's ongoing attempt to repeat a few key phrases and lines at different points in the narrative (usually between the flashbacks/present day, but sometimes between episodes), to create parallels/some dialogue continuity. In this case, it seemed to be more related to the issue of darkness, which Oliver fears is going to overcome him in Starling City. In any case, the bones have been brought up since the first season, and yeah, since Amanda Waller, now one of a very select group of women more or less the right age on the show who has never been a love interest for Oliver at any point (the others are Joanna, Carly, Lyla, Tatsu, Chin Na Wei, the news reporter, Caitlin and Iris) also used the term, I don't think it was meant romantically.

 

3. Once back in Star City, Laurel did defend Oliver to Diggle briefly. However, just a few scenes later, she was giving Oliver a disgusted look when he jumped back into his leadership role. As we've discussed elsewhere, Diggle had good reasons for this, and Thea did listen to Oliver and went out and patrolled the streets. Laurel, however, just gave Oliver attitude.

 

4. The stunt scenes are interesting here. In stark contrast to Sara and Oliver, where the two immediately started working together as fighting partners - as early as episode 3 - Laurel and Oliver work separately. In the big, final stunt sequence, they weren't even in the same location - Oliver and Diggle were going after the train, and Laurel and Thea were, for some reason, clearing out the train station instead of letting the cops do this.

 

5. The fanboy moment with the kid was meant to establish Laurel as an awesomely cool superhero, but it's not particularly related to Oliver and Laurel.

 

6. And that ends the Oliver and Laurel interactions. They didn't touch or hug this episode. His meaningful conversations were with Felicity, Diggle, Quentin, Amanda Waller, Damien (to an extent) and the neighbors. That is, the annoying neighbors, who Oliver has only known for at most a few months, had a more personal conversation with/about Oliver than Laurel did. 

 

In contrast, season three at least started out with Oliver and Laurel smiling at each other, saying they were partners, and Oliver thanking Laurel. The last shippy moment we had between the two of them was Oliver catching Laurel after she jumped off the building, showing that she trusted him enough to catch her, but that was back in episode 18 of the third season. And over on Flash, Barry had deep, meaningful conversations with both Iris and Caitlin and hugged both of them at one point or another in the episode. Very different. 

[AyChihuahua]

Shippy moments between O and L, really?  Wow, people really seek out bad news, don't they?  

 

Among many thoughts I have about non-existent O/L shippy moments, Laurel didn't defend Oliver to Digg.  She just said they needed him.  They also NEED toilets.  That ain't a defense of Oliver.

[Guest]

Um. We literally just had the best O/F episode where Oliver wanted nothing more than a life and future with Felicity. He even needed reassurance from her that she was 100% with him because he loves her so much. He wants to wife that girl. He wants to wife her good. Come on guys!

 

Like, I'm genuinely baffled by this. I honestly didn't see any shippy moments between O/L. Say whaaaaat. Laurel wasn't the only one who bought Oliver back to the city. Thea was very much part of that decision. Laurel didn't seem bothered at all by O/F being clearly together and loved up, and nor should she. She's been doing her own thing and has clearly moved on a long time ago. Good for her. The 'bones' comment was ridiculous and I don't see that as shippy in the slightest. I was actually surprised they repeated it because everyone gave that line so much hassle the last time around.

 

I mean, I understand why people might be worried BECAUSE COMICS but when the only reason for that doubt is comics and nothing they're showing on screen, I think you can rest easy for a while. 

[tangerine95]

I don't think Laurel and Oliver had any even slightly shippy moments in season 3.Maybe in the premiere when KC was trying hard to make something happen at the press conference Quentin was holding that Laurel took Oliver to.But SA was not playing Oliver that way nor was it writen with that intention so it doesn't really count for me.When she jumped of the buliding and he caught her I honestly don't see how that was a moment for some people.It was dumb that they even did that stunt,but they wanted to show how badass BC is after her 3 boxing lessons.

The reverse 2.14 scene is probably oversold like all of Laurel's scenes.I just remember them talking about her going far for him in 3.19 and she ended up doing her job.Its pretty clear it will be about them becoming better friends and putting the past behind them.I just don't think KC and SA can sell that.

Laurel in 4.01 IMO wasn't supposed to be a jerk to Oliver but KC played her that way.Digg was the one with the conflict from season 3 and Thea with the LP effects.But Laurel had no in show reason to behave that way,IMO that was all KC and the way she plays Laurel.

[AyChihuahua]

Laurel in 4.01 IMO wasn't supposed to be a jerk to Oliver but KC played her that way.Digg was the one with the conflict from season 3 and Thea with the LP effects.But Laurel had no in show reason to behave that way,IMO that was all KC and the way she plays Laurel.

She was in the dungeon with everyone else when they genuinely thought he was letting them all die. 

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel isn't one who likes to have orders barked at her which is what Diggle/Laurel saw Oliver doing which he apologized for. 

[tangerine95]

She was in the dungeon with everyone else when they genuinely thought he was letting them all die.

Didn't they resolve that?I figured since they had a moment of him giving them his blessing in the finale and Laurel seemed fine with him then.They should have talked about it more,I mean not even Felicity had a scene of being too mad about it once they figured out he was faking it.

I seriously doubt the show is writting Laurel as mad at Oliver about that or anything else from season 3,they make those things clear like with Diggle.That's why I think the attitude comes from the acting more then the writting.

[AyChihuahua]

Didn't they resolve that?I figured since they had a moment of him giving them his blessing in the finale and Laurel seemed fine with him then.They should have talked about it more,I mean not even Felicity had a scene of being too mad about it once they figured out he was faking it.

I seriously doubt the show is writting Laurel as mad at Oliver about that or anything else from season 3,they make those things clear like with Diggle.That's why I think the attitude comes from the acting more then the writting.

They didn't resolve it at all.  It wasn't even mentioned.  I mean, it's KC, so who knows, but Laurel has always held grudges...and I know if he'd done that to me I'd be very angry for a very long time. 

[apinknightmare]

She's always generally pissy with Oliver, so I just figured everything was normal there between the two of them.

[tangerine95]

They didn't resolve it at all. It wasn't even mentioned. I mean, it's KC, so who knows, but Laurel has always held grudges...and I know if he'd done that to me I'd be very angry for a very long time.

A lot of important things go unresolved on the show or just glossed over,I'm used to it by now.And I kind of understood that Oliver felt like he had no other choice.He did intend to die himself to kill Ras and he did send Barry to save them so I didn't hold it against him for too long.

She's always generally pissy with Oliver, so I just figured everything was normal there between the two of them.

Yeah that's their normal dynamic it seems.Easier to buy then the epic soulmates meant for each other tbh. Edited October 11, 2015 by tangerine95