“Bitch” Vs. “Jerk”: Where We Discuss Who The Writers Screwed This Week/Season/Ever

[Mick Lady]

SOON

 

Vicodin, I need Vicodin.

 

And some whiskey.

[Mick Lady]

SOON

 

Vicodin. Much more Vicodin.

 

And whiskey.

 

I'm not going to that thread for a few days. I figure by the time I start talking to the bottle, I'll be ready.

 

When it answers.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Mick Lady

[catrox14]

So, it is seems that Singer is officially an Executive Consultant and will still direct episodes and still be very involved in Vancouver according to Jim Michaels
 
I'm reading in the Twitterverse that Phil Sgriccia is now co-showrunner with Carver, but I haven't seen official confirmation of that yet. Phil has been listed as a co-executive producer for a while IIRC but I don't know about showrunner status.
 
 

Jim Michaels ‏@TheJimMichaels 57m57 minutes ago

Jim Michaels Retweeted anna

Bob Singer is now an Executive consultant @cw_spn He's still very involved and will Direct the usual # of episodes

 

 

Edited October 8, 2015 by catrox14

[FlickChick]

I have to wonder if Singer's view and Carver's met an impasse. That is so strange that Singer would back away from producer after so many years. With a little luck the Nepotism Duo will no longer be with us. One can only hope. I know, I know...

[Wynterwolf]

There had been rumors that he was going to step away after the 200th ep, but that never materialized.  Maybe this has been in the works, but was postponed with the S11 pickup.  

[catrox14]

I have to wonder if Singer's view and Carver's met an impasse. That is so strange that Singer would back away from producer after so many years. With a little luck the Nepotism Duo will no longer be with us. One can only hope. I know, I know...

 

It's hard to say. Maybe he stepped back for personal reasons.

 

Jensen and Jared have always seemed to be big supporters of Bob Singer so I do wonder what they make of this. Jensen was pissed off when they killed off Charlie and we don't know if that was Singer's or Carver's call ultimately.

There had been rumors that he was going to step away after the 200th ep, but that never materialized.  Maybe this has been in the works, but was postponed with the S11 pickup.  

 

Oh that's interesting, I hadn't heard anything about that at all.

[catrox14]

And here is confirmation from the CW press release. “SUPERNATURAL”

 

SUPERNATURAL is from Warner Bros. Television in association with Wonderland Sound and Vision, with executive producers Jeremy Carver (“Being Human”) and Phil Sgriccia, and executive consultant Robert Singer (“Midnight Caller”).

 

http://cwtvpr.com/the-cw/shows/supernatural/about

[Mick Lady]

Thanks for all this inside info guys!

 

The behind the story stories are getting more intriguing than the show.

 

Kidding, but it is interesting! I've read nothing about Carver's desire to leave the show. I'll be checking back to see what you guys can dig up.

[SueB]

Carver had a show in the works in pilot season ... it didn't go anywhere.  I suspect they have just renewed his contract.  Rationale: he had a three year plan, he was looking elsewhere at the end of three.  Now he's the lone guy.

 

As for Singer departing, maybe I'll come to regret this, but my thoughts are GOOD RIDDANCE.  I've always thought he was the "voice" behind some of the long-standing misogyny moments ("bitch", "whore", "skank").  And if he takes B-L with him. WOOT!

 

As for WHO decided to kill Charlie, I'm fairly certain it was Jeremy and Bob backed him up.  The rumor was that Jensen went to see Bob in Vancouver to try and talk him out of it and was pissed that Bob wouldn't budge. 

 

Jensen, of course, was RIGHT. 

 

Now, here comes the interesting bit - Singer is going to CHICON.  With that little instagram of a potentially major spoiler, maybe he'll misbehave and talk more.  I think Jensen and Jared will join him on stage (like Jensen did at JIBCON), because I think they DO like him.  Probably more than Carver. 

[DittyDotDot]

As for Singer departing, maybe I'll come to regret this, but my thoughts are GOOD RIDDANCE.  I've always thought he was the "voice" behind some of the long-standing misogyny moments ("bitch", "whore", "skank").  And if he takes B-L with him. WOOT!

 

Hear, hear! Especially to the taking the Horrible Duo with him! Truth be told, I probably would like Singer personally--curmudgeons of a feather probably should stick together and all that--but I could do without his presence on the show and would not miss him as a director. He does bring 'em in on time and under budget, though. Sigh.

Edited October 10, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

 

As for Singer departing, maybe I'll come to regret this, but my thoughts are GOOD RIDDANCE.  I've always thought he was the "voice" behind some of the long-standing misogyny moments ("bitch", "whore", "skank").  And if he takes B-L with him. WOOT!

 

Hmm. I figured that was all Kripke since he was the head writer.  Kripke talked before about having to get stuff past censors and I always took the 'bitch" son of a bitch" "whore" "skank" thing was the only way they could "swear" on TV since they can't say 'asshole' or "fucker" or "shit"  but they do get away with dick and dickbags which is forever amusing.

 

Carver has the ultimate say so over which characters live or die but since Carver and Singer both can't give an answer beyond "the story took us there" I'm not sure who to blame.  Killing Charlie was bad enough, but killing her they way the did made it worse. Since Singer's wife and her partner wrote that episode they can be blamed for the manner of her death which is worse than just killing her. They could have made it a lot more heroic.

 

 

All either one ever said is 'that is where the story took us', which made no sense. I feel like there is more behind why they did that than meets the eye. 

 

It's weird. I have to admit that I feel more worried about the survival of the show with Singer stepping away from EP duties. Now maybe he's doing it for personal reasons, I mean the guy is 70. Then I would be less concerned. But I wonder how much sway he had with the network over what they get to do and keeping Jared and Jensen coming back.

 

I'm glad that Phil Sgriccia is the new co-showrunner.  I have always enjoyed his directing style far more than Singer's in general so maybe that will be a good thing for the creativity of the show. 

[Mick Lady]

I love Sgriccia too catrox.

 

I just hope, that if this is the last season, they know it. I couldn't stand investing 11 years in this show and end up being left hanging.

[FlickChick]

The CW head Mark Pedowicz (sp?) enjoys the show and respects it, so I hope that if a decision is made to not renew, he would give the show a heads-up as soon as possible to give them a chance to end it properly. Look at Smallville - they knew they had a season to wrap things up. Let's hope for the same respect.

[7kstar]

 

Carver has the ultimate say so over which characters live or die but since Carver and Singer both can't give an answer beyond "the story took us there" I'm not sure who to blame.  Killing Charlie was bad enough, but killing her they way the did made it worse. Since Singer's wife and her partner wrote that episode they can be blamed for the manner of her death which is worse than just killing her. They could have made it a lot more heroic.

 

 

All either one ever said is 'that is where the story took us', which made no sense. I feel like there is more behind why they did that than meets the eye. 

 

I I wonder how much sway he had with the network over what they get to do and keeping Jared and Jensen coming back.

 

I'm glad that Phil Sgriccia is the new co-showrunner.  I have always enjoyed his directing style far more than Singer's in general so maybe that will be a good thing for the creativity of the show. 

The dumbest move they made was killing Charlie in the way they did.  It stunk and whoever is responsible should get bit. It's plain bad writing and made me lose respect for the writing staff.  I'll blame them way more than the actors.  

 

If Jensen tried to stop Charlie's death, that really stinks that they ignored him.  This is one time I wish we had a fly on the wall to really let us know what was so.   I'm not a big fan of Singer, but if Jensen or Jared left that would be the end of it.

 

I love Phil Sgriccia, so hopefully something positive will happen.

[AwesomO4000]

The dumbest move they made was killing Charlie in the way they did.  It stunk and whoever is responsible should get bit. It's plain bad writing and made me lose respect for the writing staff.  I'll blame them way more than the actors. 

 

I wish I could say that it made me lose respect for the writing staff, but it more made me go back to my status quo from the beginning of season 8. After they made the, in my opinion, bone-headed move of having Sam not only not look for Dean but also not look for Kevin,* this dumb move with Charlie made me more say "of course that's what they did." I guess my dumb meter is just too jaded by now. (And not by just this show - I have quite a few dumb-move gripes from other shows as well.)

 

* That for me was the dumbest move they made, because who thought it was a good idea to have one of your supposed leads do something so unheroic as abandoning Kevin with almost no explanation for his actions. I agree having Charlie die so stupidly was bad, but Sam was one of their freakin' leads... what the hell writers? And then instead of exploring his reasoning and motivations, they gave us the Amelia "story" instead - that was for me the second dumbest thing they did, because it was a huge waste of almost everyone's time, imo.

[Mick Lady]

I wish I could say that it made me lose respect for the writing staff, but it more made me go back to my status quo from the beginning of season 8. After they made the, in my opinion, bone-headed move of having Sam not only not look for Dean but also not look for Kevin,* this dumb move with Charlie made me more say "of course that's what they did." I guess my dumb meter is just too jaded by now. (And not by just this show - I have quite a few dumb-move gripes from other shows as well.)

 

* That for me was the dumbest move they made, because who thought it was a good idea to have one of your supposed leads do something so unheroic as abandoning Kevin with almost no explanation for his actions. I agree having Charlie die so stupidly was bad, but Sam was one of their freakin' leads... what the hell writers? And then instead of exploring his reasoning and motivations, they gave us the Amelia "story" instead - that was for me the second dumbest thing they did, because it was a huge waste of almost everyone's time, imo.

 

Really, did you have to bring up Kevin again! I loved him, always have, but especially after seeing the "Hillywood" parody.

 

Charlie was always a favorite, UO as it may be. I hope she comes back. After all, no one dies on Supernatural, right?

[catrox14]

Great meme about SPN (not my creation)

 

Supernatural: "We Don't Always Die....but When We Do...We Don't". 

[Mick Lady]

I wish I could give this about 20 "thumbs up"

 

I've been laughing for almost 5 mins!

[catrox14]

LOL That was me the first time I saw it.  Now I just giggle every time

[Demented Daisy]

I think this sums up TPTB rather well:

 

http://i.imgur.com/fmp5TJY.jpg

[DittyDotDot]

I would SO love if Robbie Thomspon or Bobo Berens was made Head writer.  Both of them WORK the continuity angle.  

 

I don't know. I'm not overly thrilled with Thompson as others seem to be. I think he's very talented, but I also think could use some better direction and oversight on his scripts and I'm not sure he has the skills needed to manage the show. Berens is too new to the show for me to be able to gauge his skills properly in that area.

 

To me, showrunning (or as they used to call it head writer) is so much more than being able to write. There's having a vision for the show, managing your writing staff and editing their scripts to make sure that vision is realized that go along with writing one or two scripts a year. Not to mention, overseeing production to make sure your written vision translates visually to the screen. 

 

Of the current crew, I'd like to see what Andrew Dabb could do in that capacity. He seems to be someone with ideas and vision, but not sure how he'd do as a manager, though. I'd personally be interested in Phil Scriggia taking over production duties in Vancouver like Kim Manners used to do. Jim Michaels seems to love the show and all, but I think it would help to have a directing executive producer in that position. Someone who understands what the show should look like and knows how to make that happen from episode to episode. So, maybe a co-showrunning situation with Dabb and Scriggia would be ideal?

[catrox14]

SOOOOO....Eric Kripke joined Twitter today. For the fun of it I decided to see who he was following from SPN.

He's following, Jim Michaels, Jensen, Jared, Misha, Rob Benedict, Jim Beaver and Dick Speight, Jr.

Make of it what you will...

Edited November 6, 2015 by catrox14

[Mick Lady]

If he's not following Mark, he's dead to me!

[SueB]

So, I have something somewhat controversial to say but I'm just going to go ahead and dive into that pool.

 

I personally love Richard Speight Jr.  I've seen his other work and think he was well suited to direct "Just My Imagination".  I think he did a very good job. 

 

So, here's what bother's me.  RSJ's experience feels VERY "old boy's network".  First, he get an intro to the WB Director's School from Bob Singer (and maybe Carver?) because they know him.  He shows his stuff, he gets into this prestigious class for newbie directors.  Then, when it's time for his first episode, the WB (NOT the CW BTW) go full court press on it.  They send screeners out.  Rich gets a Variety interview and a TV Line interview.  They kinda overhyped the episode IMO but more importantly, Rich was given the full star treatment for a newbie director.  It was a really nice gift for Rich and he does deserve it.

 

But with the recent articles about lack of female directors, and Supernatural being one of the worst offenders???  How could I NOT see this a textbook example of how new white male directors are given opportunities that minority and female are not.  

 

Now to Rich's credit, the guy is TENACIOUS.  He wanted the opportunity and he actively pursued it.  I don't know if any of the female or minority guest actors have gone after anything like that. PLUS Rich has the Con connection that is pretty powerful.  But... the path he got to tread (show buddy insider, WB school opportunity, heavy pre-episode hype) - it seemed so obvious. 

 

So... again, LOVE Rich. Think he's talented. Think his experience demonstrated exactly why Supernatural is one of the worst offenders of lack of director diversity.  

[AwesomO4000]

I just turned on X-Files and the scene was Mulder talking to someone in a cemetery and there was a gravestone that said "In Memory of Kim Manners." That had to be a homage, right? Didn't Kim Manners also direct for X-Files?

 

(As an aside, I came in in the middle of this, so I could be jumping to conclusions, but this episode is really weird.)

[catrox14]

Shhhh...don't spoil it. I can't watch it for another two hours!

 

But yes, Kim Manners was with X Files until it ended in 2002 and then joined Supernatural. Which is why the early seasons of SPN are so reminscient of X Files.

Edited February 2, 2016 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

I just turned on X-Files and the scene was Mulder talking to someone in a cemetery and there was a gravestone that said "In Memory of Kim Manners." That had to be a homage, right? Didn't Kim Manners also direct for X-Files?

 

(As an aside, I came in in the middle of this, so I could be jumping to conclusions, but this episode is really weird.)

 

 

Oh yeah, Kim was a big part of the X-files. I don't think he joined the show until the second season. He was not only a director, but an executive producer. I believe he also directed the first movie.

 

 

But yes, Kim Manners was with X Files until it ended in 2002 and then joined Supernatural. Which is why the early seasons of SPN are so reminscient of X Files.

 

That and John Shiban who was also a writer on the X-files--and, it didn't hurt that many of the crew in Vancouver also worked on the X-files before they moved the production to L.A. in, I think, the sixth season.

Edited February 2, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Omegamom]

The guy who directed "The Blair Witch Project" is directing Ep. 19. Prepare for lots of "live action" and seasickness-inducing camera angles!

[catrox14]

Oh gods. Please don't let it be a found footage episode. I hate those so much

[Demented Daisy]

Hey, Robbie Thompson's Silk got her own action figure.  Pretty cool.

 

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/toy-fair-2016-hasbro-expands-marvel-star-wars-lines

 

[Demented Daisy]

On the off chance that Supernatural gets a new show runner, who would you like to see in the position?

 

I'm almost at "Anyone but Carver!" but things could always get worse -- as depressing as that is.  So it'll take some research and thought on my part.  I just don't know enough about the various writers, directors, and producers to make an informed opinion.  

 

This, of course, presumes it would be someone already affiliated with the show.  They could go outside, but I don't think it worked with Carver after he stepped away, so I would want them to stay "in house", so to speak.

[Aeryn13]

The only writers whose work I currently like are Robert Berens and the very new one Nancy Won, I think? But both are far too inexperienced for showrunning duties. Maybe if it was a plit position where either of them had the creative control and someone else the financial/business side. In this case I`d favour Berens for the position.

 

Do NOT want Dabb. Thompson is also more miss than hit for me. And for God`s sake not the Nepotism Duo.

 

All in all, I`m the opposite about going outside their current circle. The one thing this show could use is fresh, unbiased blood.  

[Demented Daisy]

Interesting.  Any suggestions for someone outside the show's current staff?

[Myrelle]

FWIW, I think Dabb has been the showrunner far more this season than Carver has been. All we heard about from Dabb at Comic Con was the second episode of the season that starts a whole new arc for Sam and how awesome it was going to be and lo and behold the totally redundant Lucifer sl has been more front and center than the Darkness sl AND JP is very excited for what's coming up with and for Sam, while JA has once again become mum on everything this season, except his love for the episode Baby. Unfortunately, I think we've been seeing Dabb's handiwork as the new showrunner already. And he's writing the finale. 

[Aeryn13]

Heh, not really. I only even know writers and showrunners because they are tied down to other shows I watch.

 

Maybe Raelle Tucker is free. She used to be on through Season 2 and I liked her work. Since then I think she aquired producer experience.

 

Or, they used to have a lot of the old X-Files guard on when the show started out and he did write a great episode for the recent X-Files revival Season. So Darin Morgan would be also interesting to me. It might do the show some good to bring in someone really, really new to it. They would of course familiarize themselves with it but not be bogged down by it.

 

In reality, it`s gonna be 99,9 % Dabb. Meh.   

[Demented Daisy]

FWIW, I think Dabb has been the showrunner far more this season than Carver has been. All we heard about from Dabb at Comic Con was the second episode of the season that starts a whole new arc for Sam and how awesome it was going to be and lo and behold the totally redundant Lucifer sl has been more front and center than the Darkness sl AND JP is very excited for what's coming up with and for Sam, while JA has once again become mum on everything this season, except his love for the episode Baby. Unfortunately, I think we've been seeing Dabb's handiwork as the new showrunner already. And he's writing the finale. 

 

Dabb is writing the finale?  Do you have a link for that?

 

ETA  It keeps trying to autocorrect "Dabb"!  I really wish we could turn that off sometimes.  ;-)

Edited March 23, 2016 by Demented Daisy

[Myrelle]

Sorry, I don't, but I think Jim Michaels tweeted the info.

[catrox14]

It's posted in the spoiler thread I think

[Diane]

https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels/status/709900693042110464

 

here is the tweet.

 

Season 11 finale of @cw_spn was written by @andrewdabb & will be directed by Phil Sgriccia! Airdate is TENTATIVELY May 25th - much more B4!

Edited March 23, 2016 by Diane

[FlickChick]

Wow, I guess Carver is leaving because the only episodes he has written for this show since becoming the show runner are the opener and the finale. So the new show runner probably will be Dabb.

[Demented Daisy]

Hmm.  Very interesting.  I agree, FlickChick, that writing the finale is a check in Dabb's column, but it could be a temporary solution.

 

Hmm.  Very interesting indeed....

[catrox14]

Wow, I guess Carver is leaving because the only episodes he has written for this show since becoming the show runner are the opener and the finale. So the new show runner probably will be Dabb.

 

I don't think it means he's leaving necessarily. Even though he wrote the opener and finale Carver is still responsible for the overall thrust of the storylines.  What happens with the Frequency pilot probably determines whether he stays on as showrunner. But I don't think he'll be gone altogether.

Edited March 23, 2016 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

On the off chance that Supernatural gets a new show runner, who would you like to see in the position?

 

I'm almost at "Anyone but Carver!" but things could always get worse -- as depressing as that is.  So it'll take some research and thought on my part.  I just don't know enough about the various writers, directors, and producers to make an informed opinion.  

 

This, of course, presumes it would be someone already affiliated with the show.  They could go outside, but I don't think it worked with Carver after he stepped away, so I would want them to stay "in house", so to speak.

 

I've been thinking about this a lot since I asked the question when the show was renewed. I'm not sure that Dabb has been running the show more than Carver this season, but I do think he's being groomed for the job.

 

It comes down to this for me: a good writer does not necessarily a good showrunner make. IMO, Kripke wasn't the best writer--in fact only one or two of his episodes really were hits for me--but he was a good showrunner. So even though Dabb, as a writer, has been hit or miss for me, I'm not sure he wouldn't be a decent showrunner. He's stepped forward more this season and I think what I've seen of him suggests that he can keep all the balls in the air, but you just never know until he's actually put in that position.

 

On the creative side--having vision and ideas to push a show forward--I don't know. It sounds like Dabb has been their big idea-man for a while now and I haven't been too keen on many of those ideas myself (Men of Letters, for one). I'm also not sure I see the passion in Dabb I'd like to see, but that's probably just that Kripke was so passionate everyone else pales in that area by comparison.

 

But if they stay in-house for the job, I don't know if there's anyone else better suited for the task right now. I like what Robert Berens has done writing wise, but he's fairly new to the show and I have no idea if he can run a show or not. Or if he wants to, for that matter. Robbie Thompson probably can run a show and I think he has some vision and passion, but I also think he gets too caught up in his ideas and forgets to tell the story--which could make for a complicated showrunner. Heaven forbid they even glance at the Horrible Duo for this though. That might be the straw to break this camel's back!

 

It's such a shot in the dark if they look outside the show--you just never know what you're going to get--but I think I lean towards them doing this. If for nothing else, it could shake up the writer's room and re-energize everyone. Right now it really feels like they're this well oiled machine; pumping out the episodes with little maintenance needed to get the job done. The problem with well-oiled machines, they're designed to make the same product over and over again. A little hiccup now and then may produce a slightly flawed product, but it can also make for a more interesting product. I say they seek out a hiccup or two, myself. ;)

[auntvi]

If for nothing else, it could shake up the writer's room and re-energize everyone.

 

 

YES! But coming in as showrunner in the 12th season isn't exactly a career-making move. Supernatural needs someone who really cares. 

[SueB]

I'm f*cking loving this season. Dabb all the way for me! 

Writer picks:

Bob Berens

Robbie Thompson

Nancy Won

 

Salt-n-burn:

Buckner-Lemming

 

The others:

Charmelo/Snyder - not offensive, not brilliant IMO

Jenny Klein - she's better than the other two duos but a little too simplistic for my tastes

 

New writers:

If you look at my top 3, they are all the last 3 hired. I take that as a very good sign.  I'd like to see another new hire. 

 

Also, if you look at how the Premier was done by Carver/Singer (writer/director), you'll see that the SECOND part of the premier was done by Dabb/Scriggia.  Sure seems like a "passing of the torch" to me.

[SueB]

Dabb AND Singer are named co-showrunners. 

This pisses me off.  Singer is the source of some of worst decisions and sponsors the neopotism duo.  I'm hoping the only reason Singer's name is on the list is because the studio execs wanted a senior involved.

[Binns]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

Dabb AND Singer are named co-showrunners. 

This pisses me off.  Singer is the source of some of worst decisions and sponsors the neopotism duo.  I'm hoping the only reason Singer's name is on the list is because the studio execs wanted a senior involved.

I'm relatively new to this...what were his bad decisions? 

[Aeryn13]

Not unexpected and I think has been the status quo already for months. I don`t believe Carver has been involved with the show, other than in name only, since shortly after the Premiere.

Singer was paired with Kripke early on to keep the business side running aka keep the budget in check. Gamble mismanaged budget so terribly, they put Singer in co-charge and since then it`s probably a mandate that he oversees that side of things. Carver strikes me as someone who didn`t complain about that. No idea about Dabb.

Not hot on Dabb as a writer or now showrunner. Then again, like I said, I think he has been for some time so I expect nothing big to change.

[SueB]

Just now, Binns said:

I'm relatively new to this...what were his bad decisions? 

Death of Charlie. Treating the show like a boy's club with very little diversity. Making sure his wife & her co-writer (Buckner-Lemming) who write the most divisive and tone deaf crap episodes still get co-executive producer and writer credit every year.

[Binns]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

Death of Charlie. Treating the show like a boy's club with very little diversity. Making sure his wife & her co-writer (Buckner-Lemming) who write the most divisive and tone deaf crap episodes still get co-executive producer and writer credit every year.

Ah. I thought Charlie was Carver. Still mad at him legitimately for character assassination of Sam.