“Bitch” Vs. “Jerk”: Where We Discuss Who The Writers Screwed This Week/Season/Ever

[rue721]

Forget the cardio. I figure the best plan would be to have a nice cold pint, and wait for it to blow over.

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Thanks? I'm really not a dunce even if we have differing viewpoints. 

I don't think he was purposefully sabotaging his ability to go to school. I mean I hate John Winchester and even I don't think he'd do that. I think it was much more after the YED he was SCARED FOR Sam to be at school away from his protection. He wasn't SCARED OF Sam leaving.  That's how I see it. YMMV

Sorry

Why would it be beyond the pale for John to do that, though, if you think he was already doing virtually the same thing to Dean? If you think he was trying to commit Dean to a specific fate & no college from Day 1, then why would it be any different for him to make sure Sam would have a specific fate & no college, too?

Who knows if it was purposeful, but IMO John did actively undermine and manipulate Sam and Dean to try and keep them under his thumb. His radio silence was weaponized. I don't think he especially cared either way about college in particular, though. He just wanted to keep them both on a leash IMO. His problem with Sam was that Sam slipped the leash.

In any case, I think that John was scared for Sam, because he said in Dead Man's Blood that he was upset thinking about Sam being alone and vulnerable at school. Which IMO is a natural thing to feel when your kid leaves home for the first time. But I think that being abandoned by Sam and feeling like he wasn't in control of him anymore freaked John out, too. He tried hard to pressure Sam into coming back with his tail between his legs, what with his ultimatum and the years-long silent treatment, and IMO that was more about him wanting to be in control than it was about anything supernatural or about love/compassion/fear for Sam.

8 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

It could just be that even when he was angry or disappointed in John, he knew John trusted and respected him. Mary isn't giving either of them that, but that's a new sensation for Dean with regards to parents. 

What's a new sensation, not having a baseline level of mutual trust?

I did find Dean exceptionally open and trusting with Mary when she first showed up. IMO that's why it was such a big deal for him when she broke that trust by leaving the bunker. I guess now he's got to learn how to love someone without trusting them?

It's hard for me to imagine trusting someone like John absolutely, though. So didn't Dean already learn about this with his father? Or maybe he did trust John absolutely, I dunno.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

18 hours ago, bearcatfan said:

My sister's grand plan is Twinkies for food since they last forever.

Well, unless she can't find any!  ;)

[Wayward Son]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

She wrote the Hitler episode in which he wasn't mentioned but she also wrote "Regarding Dean" and Cas was mentioned a few times. When Sam said he'd let Cas know to contact him in case of emergency. Dean said 'Don't go calling Mom or Cas". The dialogue for the mirror scene in which Dean says "My name is Dean Winchester. My brother is Sam. My mother is Mary Winchester and Cast...Cas is my best friend" .

So it's hard for me to reconcile that she doesn't think Cas exists in general.

IMO a mention of Cas in one of three episodes isn't enough to show us that Glynn particularly cares about him or his relationship with the Winchester brothers. For instance Adam Glass wrote several episodes with Castiel in them during his first year on the show (season 6). It was only after he stopped being the newbie that he stopped writing for Castiel altogether (he didn't write a single Castiel episode during seasons 7-10). Instead his episodes became the ones that appeased the bro!only crowd as they often forgot, or at least devalued, the other people in Sam and Dean's life by empathising the nauseating (IMO) idea that "we are all we have. No one else matters". This in contrast to the likes of Edlund and Thompson who had a tendency to focus on the theme "family don't end in blood". 

So far Glynn seems to have taken up Adam's  mantle in regards to not writing Cas and mostly ignoring his existence. However, she has thankfully refrained from falling into making her episodes all about co-dependency and "no one else matters".

Edited March 31, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

I think Berens is a Cas-writer for the most part. And Steve Yockey did a Cas ep. The others fluctuate. Dabb seems to be love his shiny new toys more than anything else. Glynn appears to be the only Dean-writer among the crowd so I`m really okay with keeping her that way. 

[Wayward Son]

25 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think Berens is a Cas-writer for the most part. And Steve Yockey did a Cas ep. The others fluctuate. Dabb seems to be love his shiny new toys more than anything else. Glynn appears to be the only Dean-writer among the crowd so I`m really okay with keeping her that way. 

I actually don't mind that Glynn hasn't written any Castiel episodes. I'd actually rather writers that dislike him and/or have no interest in him stay away from him instead of risking the writing of butchered characterisation. That's why I wish they had asked Perez or Yockey to help with the next Cas centric episode instead of her. Glynn's primary interest seems to be Dean and she writes him well so I'm more than happy for that to continue. 

I was simply replying to Catrox's complaint about the lack of Cas mention by stating I don't find it surprising due to Glynn's seeming lack of interest in exploring the character. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Wayward Son

[SueB]

14 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I actually don't mind that Glynn hasn't written any Castiel episodes. I'd actually rather writers that dislike him and/or have no interest in him stay away from him instead of risking the writing of butchered characterisation. That's why I wish they had asked Perez or Yockey to help with the next Cas centric episode instead of her. Glynn's primary interest seems to be Dean and she writes him well so I'm more than happy for that to continue. 

I was simply replying to Catrox's complaint about the lack of Cas mention by stating I don't find it surprising due to Glynn's seeming lack of interest in exploring the character. 

If Cas isn't in the episode AND the mytharc wants to keep what's going on with him a surprise, then they may have been told to NOT mention Cas.

It's far too early, IMO, to ascribe negative motivation ('not interested in writing') to a writer based on what we've seen thus far.

[Wayward Son]

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

If Cas isn't in the episode AND the mytharc wants to keep what's going on with him a surprise, then they may have been told to NOT mention Cas.

It's far too early, IMO, to ascribe negative motivation ('not interested in writing') to a writer based on what we've seen thus far.

It wasn't just this episode that has led me to this conclusion. It's also the fact she is the only new writer to not feature him in one of her solo episodes and he doesn't get so much as a mention in two out of three episodes. All in all he doesn't seem to be any sort of priority for her. 

Perhaps I'll be proven wrong next year and she starts writing for him a lot then, and if that does happen I'll take back my thoughts on this. However, based on what we have seen from her IMO she has little to no interest in Cas. And that's ok. I'd rather those who aren't interested in him leave writing Cas to the writers such as Berens who do get him. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Wayward Son

[SueB]

56 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

It wasn't just this episode that has led me to this conclusion. It's also the fact she is the only new writer to not feature him in one of her solo episodes and he doesn't get so much as a mention in two out of three episodes. All in all he doesn't seem to be any sort of priority for her. 

Perhaps I'll be proven wrong next year and she starts writing for him a lot then, and if that does happen I'll take back my thoughts on this. However, based on what we have seen from her IMO she has little to no interest in Cas. And that's ok. I'd rather those who aren't interested in him leave writing Cas to the writers such as Berens who do get him. 

The writers don't get to pick the storyline, they get assigned a number and the AVAILABLE cast.  Robbie Thompson made that clear in his Fangasm interview.  She didn't decide NOT to use him. He was not in this episode by producer decree (as they limit his time due to money).  And the storyline is already roughly set. The major stories and arcs are in fact pitched by the writers at the beginning of the season.  And individual MOTW episodes are pitched as well.  But then Singer/Dabb get a sense of the "big picture" for the year (in June) and plan out thru mid-season.  They together again in November and plan out the back half.  The last four episodes (approximately) are reserved for wrap-up and set-up.  Those get revisited in late Jan/early Feb.  So, for example, for last night's episode, it would have been something akin to: "Provide a story that reveals the underlying code for the BMoL is black and white and have Mick start to see the human impact of this code. We want a guest star, let's use Claire, bit and have the Winchesters insist on sparing her. This episode has the boys plus Mick and Claire as guests.  No Cas or Crowley." Boom. Story concept and available cast.  Now it might not have been these exact words but the sentiment is clear.  The writers get told the gist of the story and what they are trying to accomplish.  They produce what they think works and it gets revised in a three+ (depending on number of revisions) step process. 

So it's flat out inaccurate to imply she "chose" to not feature Cas.  It wasn't her choice at all.  To be honest, if you are going to make broad criticism of writer motivation, I think you should do so including the basic facts of how Supernatural stories are assigned and written.  Both Robbie Thompson and Adam Glass have given interviews detailing the process.  

Now, if Glynn has Cas IN an episode and THEN writes him poorly -- I can see forming that conclusion.  As of now, there's no actual evidence in light of the facts that says Cas is not a priority to her. Ascribing a specific motivation to ANY of these new writers, IMO, is far too early. See what stories they pitch next year.  THEN you'll see where they feel most connected to the story.  

Edited March 31, 2017 by SueB

[Wayward Son]

Personally, I find it hard to believe Dabb (or whoever assigns the episodes) is completely unaware of the personal preferences of each writer on the team. I'm sure he is at least aware of which character(s) each writer feels an affinity for and takes that into account when giving the assignments. IMO it would be a rather big coincidence for her to be the only one not assigned a single Cas episode by chance rather than design. Just as I would find it hard to believe it was a coincidence Adam Glass wasn't assigned a single Cas episode in four years. 

We can agree to disagree on this :)

[SueB]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

Personally, I find it hard to believe Dabb (or whoever assigns the episodes) is completely unaware of the personal preferences of each writer on the team. I'm sure he is at least aware of which character(s) each writer feels an affinity for and takes that into account when giving the assignments. IMO it would be a rather big coincidence for her to be the only one not assigned a single Cas episode by chance rather than design. Just as I would find it hard to believe it was a coincidence Adam Glass wasn't assigned a single Cas episode in four years. 

We can agree to disagree on this :)

They were new writers.  I see no basis for your opinion.  But I'm happy to stop posting about this. 

[DittyDotDot]

7 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

IMO a mention of Cas in one of three episodes isn't enough to show us that Glynn particularly cares about him or his relationship with the Winchester brothers. For instance Adam Glass wrote several episodes with Castiel in them during his first year on the show (season 6). It was only after he stopped being the newbie that he stopped writing for Castiel altogether (he didn't write a single Castiel episode during seasons 7-10). Instead his episodes became the ones that appeased the bro!only crowd as they often forgot, or at least devalued, the other people in Sam and Dean's life by empathising the nauseating (IMO) idea that "we are all we have. No one else matters". This in contrast to the likes of Edlund and Thompson who had a tendency to focus on the theme "family don't end in blood". 

So far Glynn seems to have taken up Adam's  mantle in regards to not writing Cas and mostly ignoring his existence. However, she has thankfully refrained from falling into making her episodes all about co-dependency and "no one else matters".

As @SueB said, the writers get assigned episodes by rotation on this show, so I'm not sure it's her fault Cass hasn't featured in her episodes as of yet.

Thompson and Edlund tended to get handed many of the myth-heavy episodes where Cass was a player. Glass didn't. He wrote mostly one-offs for most of his run, as I recall. But, I also recall how he spoke of Cass in interviews and never got the impression he didn't care for Cass or the relationship he had with the Winchesters. He just didn't have many opportunities to write it given the episodes he was tasked with didn't feature Cass.

And, I'm assuming no mention of Cass is this episode was because there's a big reveal for Cass coming and the show didn't want to tip their hand yet. Personally, I'm not a fan of this, but I also can't hold Glynn responsible for it either. 

I think it's too early to start labeling the new writers, myself. They're all very inexperienced and have yet to show us who they are as writers yet, IMO. On this show, the second season is a better testing ground of the writers, IMO. That's when they really start to either grow or settle into patterns. Right now, I think they're still trying to find their way around, get to know the different characters and the language of the show. 

[catrox14]

7 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

So far Glynn seems to have taken up Adam's  mantle in regards to not writing Cas and mostly ignoring his existence. However, she has thankfully refrained from falling into making her episodes all about co-dependency and "no one else matters".

 

As much as I bitched about Perez and his Disappearing Dean act in 12.4, I  gave him a bit of pass on his first episode, same with Glynn and Yockey as noobs. 

IIRC, from some commentary by Ben Edlund ,the first scripts by new writers are given more attention by the head writer and showrunner, so whatever is in the scripts and ultimately the final cut of the episode aired  has the approval of Dabb and Singer. Additionally, Jensen has said  that episode directors don't get  the final cut of the episodes which are done by the  producers and the network, and that's why  each  director gets a director's cut .

IMO, that means Dabb & I guess Singer, too, were okay with disappearing!Dean in 12.4, and invisible! Cas in the Hitler episode. I was relieved to see  in "Regarding Dean", even if it was from a Dean centric POV,  that Glynn  explicitly acknowledged the importance of Cas to Dean and the relationship between them. I tend to think Dabb must have wanted it there so it was left.

I was less thrilled with Invisible! Cas in the Claire episode. Even from a Dean centric POV writer,  it made no sense for Dean to not mention Cas at all given the heavy emphasis on Dean and Cas interactions in the previous two episodes and the acknowledgement that Dean was concerned about Cas in the episode prior. The only reason  I can see is that it's a Dabb/Singer choice to leave out a mention.

Long story short, I think maybe as hard as I've been on Perez, he's a newbie too so maybe it's really Dabb & Singer, whose feet I should be holding to the fire as much as the writers. They are  in charge of the overall story arcs the season and they have the final say in what is in a script. Even if J2 make changes on set, in the end it's the showrunners who approve what ends up on screen.

[catrox14]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

The writers get told the gist of the story and what they are trying to accomplish.  They produce what they think works and it gets revised in a three+ (depending on number of revisions) step process. 

I'm not so sure this holds true for all episodes and all writers though. Even though the overall story arc is controlled by Dabb the writers do get to pitch stories.  On the commentary for Executioners Song, Tim  Omundsun said he emailed Robbie Thompson about having time to revisit Cain. Thompson told him "hold on let run to the writers room." Thompson came back and said they would work something out. Then Berens got the episode.

Edlund also said they pitch ideas all the time that didn't go anywhere. So I think some writers probably pitch for characters they may have more affinity or feel more comfortable writing for.

I think BL are all plot all the time and fuck the characters.

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not so sure this holds true for all episodes and all writers though. Even though the overall story arc is controlled by Dabb the writers do get to pitch stories.  On the commentary for Executioners Song, Tim  Omundsun said he emailed Robbie Thompson about having time to revisit Cain. Thompson told him "hold on let run to the writers room." Thompson came back and said they would work something out. Then Berens got the episode.

Edlund also said they pitch ideas all the time that didn't go anywhere. So I think some writers probably pitch for characters they may have more affinity or feel more comfortable writing for.

As far as I know, they do pitch story ideas and, if they're lucky, they get to see their pitch through to fruition. But I think they're more general ideas. Like I guess Edlund used to pitch a wish fish idea over and over and over again that drove Kripke nuts. He didn't have a full episode figured out, thought, but a general idea about a fish granting wishes and Sam and Dean would need to investigate. It's what eventually turned into Wishful Thinking--they kept the wishing, but lost the fish--but it was just a simple little idea for an episode. 

I'm not sure if this is currently the case, but I think they used to have to come in and pitch at least five ideas each year. The ones that sound promising get ran up to the network. As I understand it, it's usually just a few sentences to tease the network and get them on board. Once the network signs off, they sit down and break the story down. That's when they look at which characters/actors are available and and do a full outline of the plot to send back to the network. Sometimes the finished product bares little resemblance to what they pitched.

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Long story short, I think maybe as hard as I've been on Perez, he's a newbie too so maybe it's really Dabb & Singer, whose feet I should be holding to the fire as much as the writers. They are  in charge of the overall story arcs the season and they have the final say in what is in a script. Even if J2 make changes on set, in the end it's the showrunners who approve what ends up on screen.

The network has a lot of say in these things too. Many times things that happen on screen aren't at all what TPTB want, but are network mandates. I don't think that's a problem much for Supernatural anymore--seems like the network mostly leaves them alone these days--but I think they still have final say in the finished product. I'm hard on the writers and expect a lot from them, but I also realize that many things that end up on screen isn't really up to them. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Many times things that happen on screen aren't at all what TPTB want, but are network mandates. I don't think that's a problem much for Supernatural anymore--seems like the network mostly leaves them alone these days--but I think they still have final say in the finished product. I'm hard on the writers and expect a lot from them, but I also realize that many things that end up on screen isn't really up to them. 

I think the network only really gets involved on stuff like:

"Hey, we want to kill God onscreen, cool, right?"

"No."

Like, everything that drives me bonkers/annoys me/I outright hate about any episode for the past, say, four years, I`m 100 % sure has nothing to do with network mandates because they wouldn`t give a fuck. That is entirely the writers and showrunner. Network meddling might actually hold them back from going with their worst instincts. Like a failsafe. 

Now back when Dawn Ostroff was president of the CW, she was pretty known for a) not really liking the show because it didn`t fit into her preferred brand of rich teens shows aimed at a young female demo and b) trying to at least make it fit better. On the other hand Pedowitz would likely let them do anything short off burning down a soundstage.

[Wayward Son]

I wasn't really sure where to put this, but another writers strike could be in the works! 

 

Quote

All your favourite US TV shows might be about to go off the air at once – and here's why

You might want to make the most of the current new episodes from your favourite US TV shows.

The Writers Guild of America is threatening to strike from May 2 due to a row over pay, and if it happens, it means that shows set to air their new seasons this autumn, such as Modern Family and Empire, could be postponed.

In a letter, the WGA stated that writers have been losing revenue in recent years and that many find themselves locked into a contract without other work.

"In the event that we are unable to negotiate a new contract with the AMPTP, a work stoppage will begin May 2. Should this occur, writing for television, feature films and digital series will cease," the letter reads (via Deadline).

If a strike happens, the shows that will be affected straightaway will be late night chat and sketch shows like The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon and Saturday Night Live.

Scripted shows that have already finished filming won't be affected but as the letter states: "Any delay in the start of work has the potential to postpone fall season premieres and reduce the amount of new programming."

Summer shows like Orange Is the New Black, Veep and Fear the Walking Dead will still air as usual.

When the WGA went on strike in 2007, it lasted for 100 days and led to the likes of Breaking Bad and The Big Bang Theory having their number of episodes cut.

The strike also notably affected Bond outing Quantum of Solace as Daniel Craig ended up having to write some of his own dialogue, while the 2008 Golden Globes were cancelled.

 

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/modern-family/news/a825344/us-tv-shows-writers-strike-possibility/

 

Could we be in for a short season 13?

[Aeryn13]

I think the last episode truly felt like an episode of the show where Dean didn`t appear. I mean, I know he was technically in it but that was so superflouus, everyone else had a more integral part. Heck, even in scenes he was in, the camera work eventually made it seem like he had ceased to exist or something. In the middle of the scene. If Jensen had had the entire 8 days off, nothing would have changed. 

In comparism Sam got the Eileen scenes (even when Dean was there, he might as well have been invisible) and talking down Mick while Dean pretty much literally went mute. 

I`d rather they had made up some excuse why the character wasn`t in the episode at all. If that`s basically how they wrote and shot it, why bother? 

[FlickChick]

We'll have to see how it goes this time around. With all the cable/pay channels filming at various times all year long, the WGA might want to settle quickly so as not to lose too much work and pay.

[catrox14]

I'm putting this here even thought this isn't about Supernatural but it's script analysis for the pilot of Breaking Bad, so it's about writing in general.  It's 100% spoiler filled for Breaking Bad...but I think this is so interesting. And makes me wonder how much of SPN writing meets these parameters.

Quote

 

annerocious :

filmcourage :

(Watch the video on Youtube here)

BREAKING BAD Script Analysis - Pilot Episode - Theme and the A and B Stories via FilmCourage.com.

Do you know you need 28 beats spread out over 4 storylines in your hour-drama pilot? Now you do! This is a fun little 9 minute intro to designing your script.

 

You've been warned

Spoiler

SPOILERS FOR BREAKING BAD

>>>

SPOILERS FOR BREAKING BAD

https://annerocious.tumblr.com/post/159427086995/annerocious-filmcourage-watch-the-video-on

 

Spoiler

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by catrox14

[Wayward Son]

Not strictly SN related, but she was a writer for the show so I thought this could fit in here! 

The Sera Gamble ran show The Magicans has been renewed for a third season! I'm really pleased for Sera that she has gone on to find success outside the show! While I have some issues with the way she ran things during seasons 6-7 she also penned some of my absolute favourite episodes, so I'm really pleased for her :)

[catrox14]

On 4/8/2017 at 1:19 PM, FlickChick said:

We'll have to see how it goes this time around. With all the cable/pay channels filming at various times all year long, the WGA might want to settle quickly so as not to lose too much work and pay.

You know, I've been wondering if the show might be writing a possible FINAL episode in the event of another writer's strike. Maybe that's why Jared and Jensen are really pushing their other business interests. Maybe they are just preparing in case of...

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

You know, I've been wondering if the show might be writing a possible FINAL episode in the event of another writer's strike. Maybe that's why Jared and Jensen are really pushing their other business interests. Maybe they are just preparing in case of...

That's a depressing thought!  I certainly hope that's not the case.  I can see them having a shortened season next year, if the strike happens and gets drawn out, but I would hope they wouldn't just cancel the series because of this damn strike.

[Binns]

This makes me nervous. 

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Binns said:

This makes me nervous. 

If Ben Edlund came back and wrote an SPN "Smile Time" episode, I'd be pretty damn happy LOL

21 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

That's a depressing thought!  I certainly hope that's not the case.  I can see them having a shortened season next year, if the strike happens and gets drawn out, but I would hope they wouldn't just cancel the series because of this damn strike.

If they strike.

Hopefully, they have good negotiations and everyone ends up happy.  If not, other shows were shut down because of the last writers' strike...so sadly, it can happen.

[rue721]

Is the one between Castiel and Sam supposed to be Dean?! LOL no way. I sat here for a full minute thinking, "who the fuck is THAT supposed to be?!"

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Is the one between Castiel and Sam supposed to be Dean?! LOL no way. I sat here for a full minute thinking, "who the fuck is THAT supposed to be?!"

The hair is much too blond for Dean but I'm pretty sure that is intended to be Dean.

[DittyDotDot]

PUPPETS!! I assume they're something a fan made, but I wouldn't mind a puppet episode, myself. 

10 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Is the one between Castiel and Sam supposed to be Dean?! LOL no way. I sat here for a full minute thinking, "who the fuck is THAT supposed to be?!"

Yeah, I think so. He's got the leather jacket and spikey hair. It's funny, I kept staring at Crowley wondering if that was supposed to be Mick because of the beard, then it dawned on me.

Edited April 13, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[rue721]

In retrospect, I shoulda known it was Dean just by the upteen number of layers the blond puppet has on.

[Binns]

I like that Sam and Dean are holding hands. But maybe that's because I've been reading too much Wincest fanfic...

[ILoveReading]

Dabb's hierarchy seems to be

The British Men of Letters

Sam

Mary

Lucifer

Cas

Crowley

The Impala

MOTW

Person in Peril

and that other guy. 

[BlueSapphire]

Dean's apparent lack of badassery is bringing out the classy side of the fandom.  Tweets to Andrew Dabb and his "inner Samgirl" and whether he hates Dean are all over the place. Just really immature.

[catrox14]

Just now, BlueSapphire said:

Dean's apparent lack of badassery is bringing out the classy side of the fandom.  Tweets to Andrew Dabb and his "inner Samgirl" and whether he hates Dean are all over the place. Just really immature.

All factions of this fandom and pretty much every other fandom tweet at showrunners and  writers about whatever has them irritated. It kind of goes with the territory if you're a showrunner/writer who chooses to have a public twitter account.

[BlueSapphire]

9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Dabb's hierarchy seems to be

The British Men of Letters

Sam

Mary

Lucifer

Cas

Crowley

The Impala

MOTW

Person in Peril

and that other guy. 

So? Why does Sam actually killing something bother you so much?

[ILoveReading]

Just now, BlueSapphire said:

So? Why does Sam actually killing something bother you so much?

Because of how lopesided its becoming.  The last time it felt like Dean mattered in the an episode was 11. 

[BlueSapphire]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

All factions of this fandom and pretty much every other fandom tweet at showrunners and  writers about whatever has them irritated. It kind of goes with the territory if you're a showrunner/writer who chooses to have a public twitter account.

When the tweets become accusatory and petty and just absolutely asinine (apparently it's in Jared's contract for Dean not to kill anything, don'tcha know?), why shouldn't they be called out on it?

[Wayward Son]

@ILoveReading I needed to do a quick correction ;)

 

Sam

Mary

Lucifer

Crowley

The Impala

MOTW

Person in Peril

Cas

and that other guy. 

 

Your order hasn't applied since Stuck In the Middle (With You). After that they decided to completely sideline the angel and write him off to heaven. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

@I lovereading I needed to do a quick correction ;)

 

Sam

Mary

Lucifer

Crowley

The Impala

MOTW

Person in Peril

Cas

and that other guy. 

 

Your order hasn't applied since Stuck In the Middle (With You). After that they decided to completely sideline the angel and write him off to heaven. 

I can agree with this.  Although, I think I need to add

Cas

Ketch

Mick

Hess

Jody

Claire

the other guy.

[Wayward Son]

As long as no one is campaigning for Jared to be fired or insulting his parenting style (are they? I haven't been on Twitter today) then the Dean fans complaining on twitter are no where near as bad as the brother!only fans who constantly berate the writers with their hate of Cas/Misha. In fact some complaints that their favourite is being under-utilised is tame in comparison. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Wayward Son

[BlueSapphire]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

As long as no one is campaigning for Jared to be fired (are they? I haven't been on Twitter today) then the Dean fans complaining on twitter are no where near as bad as the brother!only fans who constantly berate the writers with their hate of Cas/Misha. 

Dean and Jensen fans are just as bad as fans of the other characters and actors.  Implying that one of the actors is actively attempting to sabotage storylines for some sort of benefit is pretty gross, IMO.  

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

When the tweets become accusatory and petty and just absolutely asinine (apparently it's in Jared's contract for Dean not to kill anything, don'tcha know?), why shouldn't they be called out on it?

It's every fans prerogative to gripe about what they want to gripe about to the showrunners. I'm fairly certain I can find similar complaints from Sam fans about how Sam has been treated at times, and Cas fans about Cas etc and all directed at the showrunners/writers, who are big boys and girls. Short of personal threats to TPTB, what difference does it make what people say to them?

[BlueSapphire]

But it's not only the showrunners that the gripes are about.  Sometimes it's ridiculous statements about the actors (hence the Jared comments.)

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, BlueSapphire said:

But it's not only the showrunners that the gripes are about.  Sometimes it's ridiculous statements about the actors (hence the Jared comments.)

I consider the actors to be part of TPTB. It doesn't really change my answer  of "Short of personal threats to TPTB including the actors, what difference does it make what people say to them? I mean yeah it's shitty no matter what. No faction of OF ANY FANDOM is free of nonsense.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think "the other guy" is on Dabb`s priority list at all. Not even at the bottom. 

At this point, I don`t even know what to say. The imbalance is ridiculous and it was never this one-sided in Dean`s favour. In the early Seasons Sam had the mytharc which meant he wasn`t useless and without purpose and he wasn`t magically this incompetent either. 

They even refuse to give Dean`s character the barest of scraps right now. 

[Myrelle]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

At this point, I don`t even know what to say. The imbalance is ridiculous and it was never this one-sided in Dean`s favour. In the early Seasons Sam had the mytharc which meant he wasn`t useless and without purpose and he wasn`t magically this incompetent either.

It makes me wonder what in the world is really going on BTS of this show.

[BlueSapphire]

Where is the proof that anything is going on "behind the scenes?" 

[Myrelle]

There will never be proof, but the writing for Dean this season has been pretty much non-existent as a lead character and actor(IMO)-similar to how he was written in S6 and 7, and the latter half of 8(again IMO), so I'm wondering if there might not be something going on between him and the showrunner(s) that would force him to speak up again as he had to do back then, because this showrunner-Dabb-has also shown very little interest in writing or expanding on storylines for Dean or Jensen since he took over and I believe that he actually took over right after the s11 premiere just judging by comments made at Comic Con the summer before.

This kind of thing happens on other shows frequently. Sometimes we just never hear about it until after the show has ended. And this particular show would definitely try to always keep up the appearances of one big happy family in every way, all the time-in order to keep the gravy train up and running for everyone, of course. JMO.

[Aeryn13]

I highly doubt it`s gonna make any impression on Dabb or any of the writers. If he cared in the first place, I don`t think we`d be at this point. Personally, I`m just glad people are speaking up. If the writers only ever want ass-kissing, well, they should delete their twitters.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

Reminder: Nobody is required to 'prove/provide evidence' that their opinion is right, because as in most things, all this sort of stuff is open to interpretation and perception. If they choose to provide their reasoning that should be accepted as sufficient explanation.

Finally, please remember to report not engage any posts you feel violate any forum rules.

[ILoveReading]

28 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

There will never be proof, but the writing for Dean this season has been pretty much non-existent as a lead character and actor(IMO)-similar to how he was written in S6 and 7, and the latter half of 8(again IMO), so I'm wondering if there might not be something going on between him and the showrunner(s) that would force him to speak up again as he had to do back then, because this showrunner-Dabb-has also shown very little interest in writing or expanding on storylines for Dean or Jensen since he took over and I believe that he actually took over right after the s11 premiere just judging by comments made at Comic Con the summer before.

This kind of thing happens on other shows frequently. Sometimes we just never hear about it until after the show has ended. And this particular show would definitely try to always keep up the appearances of one big happy family in every way, all the time-in order to keep the gravy train up and running for everyone, of course. JMO.

This is reminding me a lot of s2 of Dark Angel.  I wasn't online a lot back then or in any fandom.  I never watched Days of Our Lives or smallvile so it was also really the first time I saw Jensen.  So I don't think it was just "Alec" bias when I noticed a sharp decline in focus, screen time and in Alec's character abilities.  Then it came out that behind the scenes politics very much played a role in this.

I think the problem is Dabb.  For some reason he has zero interest in Dean as a character.  I think that it dates back even further than this season.  I think he was in charge most of last year, unofficially.  Despite the premier focusing heavily on Dean/Amara all Dabb could talk about at comic con was Sam's visions.  Not to mention no follow up with Death.  Form and Void, Devil in the Details, 11.17, all followed the patter of episodes we've been seeing since 12.12.  With Dean removed from majority of the action.  The Dean/Amara had connection had very little development.

From the sounds of it, Jensen, Jared, Mark and Misha had a say in how the finale went down, and I believe that Dabb half-assed it because of his disinterest in the Amara storyline.

[Myrelle]

30 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Personally, I`m just glad people are speaking up.

Me too. Every other faction of this fandom does it and not one is "classier" than the other in how they do it, IMO. Not from what I've seen, anyway.