S24: Heather Morris - Dancing Her Way To The Mirrorball?

[dcubed]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't know much about the show and the behind the scenes aspects of it, although I have heard various gossip tidbits here and there. Seeing as it's my first season watching more than just the dance portions, I'm still getting a feel of what this show is about. But for me, it feels like the show is deliberately having Heather look worse so that she doesn't make the finals. She's a good dancer from what I've seen but the judges make it seem like she's so much worse than she is. I also thought her Jive was good, not spectacular but way better than how Len was making it seem. It's not like she did Hip Hop the entire time. 

I don't know; it does feel like they're setting her up to be eliminated about halfway through. 

I bolded for emphasis because you hit the nail on the head.  The judges often given remarks and scores to drive a particular narrative the producers want.  There is always a bit of backlash for what people perceive to be "ringers" and Heather is certainly seeing her share of backlash.  So the narrative will be "score her low, being hyper-critical" or like Julianne did, "explain that her prowess in hip hop doesn't translate to automatically being good in ballroom."  Then, in a few weeks, when her vote totals are low, you will see this big redemption arc about how much her ballroom has improved, that she's no longer one dimensional, that she's letting her personality show, blah, blah, blah, so that they can propel her into the finals.  How fast we see this will depend upon how low her votes are.  They aren't trying to get rid of her; they are trying to muster some sympathy and outrage from the voting audience to come out and vote for her.  They definitely want someone of Heather's caliber in the finals (see Sabrina Bryan and Chelsea Kane).   

[Beatrice]

41 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I bolded for emphasis because you hit the nail on the head.  The judges often given remarks and scores to drive a particular narrative the producers want.  There is always a bit of backlash for what people perceive to be "ringers" and Heather is certainly seeing her share of backlash.  So the narrative will be "score her low, being hyper-critical" or like Julianne did, "explain that her prowess in hip hop doesn't translate to automatically being good in ballroom."  Then, in a few weeks, when her vote totals are low, you will see this big redemption arc about how much her ballroom has improved, that she's no longer one dimensional, that she's letting her personality show, blah, blah, blah, so that they can propel her into the finals.  How fast we see this will depend upon how low her votes are.  They aren't trying to get rid of her; they are trying to muster some sympathy and outrage from the voting audience to come out and vote for her.  They definitely want someone of Heather's caliber in the finals (see Sabrina Bryan and Chelsea Kane).   

I'm still debating if the show wants her in the finals. They 100% don't want her to win. Could you imagine the headlines, professional dancer wins DWTS. If Maks makes it back I could see them doing the brother vs brother thing. It's really clear they want one of the football player or baseball player in the finale. Then for sure Simone and Normani will be there. Heather being on this season is the best thing to happen to Normani because all her dance experience is flying under the radar.  Maks being injured has given them a story line. Before that I really had no idea what they were trying to portray with Heather.

[dcubed]

1 minute ago, Beatrice said:

I'm still debating if the show wants her in the finals. They 100% don't want her to win. Could you imagine the headlines, professional dancer wins DWTS. If Maks makes it back I could see them doing the brother vs brother thing. It's really clear they want one of the football player or baseball player in the finale. Then for sure Simone and Normani will be there. Heather being on this season is the best thing to happen to Normani because all her dance experience is flying under the radar.  Maks being injured has given them a story line. Before that I really had no idea what they were trying to portray with Heather.

I don't think it has ever bothered them to have someone with exceptional training in the finals or winning.  They've had plenty of people with oodles of dance experience that they've tried to push into the finals (Chelsea Kane and Nicole Scherzinger come to mind).  I think in the case of Rashad and David, they are going along with the audience votes.  I suspect that if there is anyone who is killing it with votes it is David Ross.  When that happens, the judges go along for the ride, giving the greater vote-getter awesome scores to validate their continuation on the show and win.  You could very well be right; I think time will tell because the judges actions and comments become as transparent as saran wrap. 

[PBGamer89]

I can agree with pushing Chelsea into the finals that year. They were looking at 3 finalists (Kirstie, Hines, Ralph) all over a certain age and they wanted someone younger to try for better demo ratings. I loved and voted for Chelsea that season but even I know that 15 point challenge was ridiculous.

I don't think the show pushed Nicole into the finals. I believe she went out and did it on her own without help or significantly higher scores. In the final even, she wasn't significantly higher than Erin or Evan.

Heather seems like a 4th placer at the point because the show is trying to paint some kind of narrative that I don't like. I agree with others that have said if they didn't want a huge ringer, then don't invite her on just to berate her each week.  Plus you know how many times on SYTYCD other genre dancers attempt Ballroom and Latin and it's subpar? Most of the time, it's why you don't see good Ballroom/Latin on that show most of the time because it's such a different and specific technique.

[Toonces464]

20 minutes ago, PBGamer89 said:

Most of the time, it's why you don't see good Ballroom/Latin on that show most of the time because it's such a different and specific technique.

It's definitely changed from earlier seasons of the show once they started bringing in people from SYTYCD to be pros (Lacey, Chelsie, Dmitry).

[Beatrice]

So Heather will be with Alan for the next few weeks. He will be choreographing next week's tango. Has he choreographed any pro numbers before? I'm curious to see his style.

[Dots And Stripes]

I definitely think that Heather is better than she's getting credit for, but I don't think it's about trying to get her voted out early.

My theory with manipulation on this show is that it's for making a "better" tv shown more so than it is for dictating the outcome of the competition. I think they would rather have 4-5 plausible winners than just 1. They want things to feel competitive and they want people to have ups and downs. It's all about maximizing entertainment. 

I don't think producers are quite that good to decide who should be 4th, who should be 8th, who should be runner-up. They probably know they're hurting someone's chances with bad edits, but it's about producing a tv show that people will be invested in and talk about. 

That's why I think it's waaaay too soon to predict how Heather will ultimately do. Harping on the Beyoncé thing every week does her no favors but I think that's more about creating an interesting angle. Heather killing it every week is not going to be considered as entertaining as Heather having an arch. She had plenty of the for the judges to decide that she has had a break through in ballroom/Latin. I also generally think it's better to be polarizing than to have everyone think a celeb is fine. People won't vote if they don't care.

[Uke]

12 hours ago, dcubed said:

I don't think it has ever bothered them to have someone with exceptional training in the finals or winning.  They've had plenty of people with oodles of dance experience that they've tried to push into the finals (Chelsea Kane and Nicole Scherzinger come to mind).   

Chelsea didn't have much (if any) dance training. If anything, I recall Mark having a heck of a time trying to train her. But he gave her some memorable routines with steps she could handle AND she was part of the ABC family.  Hines was a popular footballer, Kirstie got to the finals not on dance ability but more on her weightloss story and general zaniness and Ralph got sacrificed (hence, the expression "he/she got ralphed").  They wanted someone who could deliver performances I think to give Hines a "horserace".  Chelsea didn't have the fanbase to take her all the way so TPTB came up with the 15-point winner-take-all cha cha challenge. 

(Sabrina was a hip hop dancer)

Edited March 29, 2017 by Uke
add'l info

[Irlandesa]

14 hours ago, dcubed said:

Then, in a few weeks, when her vote totals are low, you will see this big redemption arc about how much her ballroom has improved, that she's no longer one dimensional, that she's letting her personality show, blah, blah, blah, so that they can propel her into the finals.  How fast we see this will depend upon how low her votes are.  They aren't trying to get rid of her; they are trying to muster some sympathy and outrage from the voting audience to come out and vote for her.  They definitely want someone of Heather's caliber in the finals (see Sabrina Bryan and Chelsea Kane).   

I do think they intended for her to go far but not all the way far.  They intended her to go far because they did give her one of their more well known stars in Max.  But they are also perhaps more critical than they would be if she didn't have the background experience she has.  With Max injured, they may have to drop the more critical angle because Alan doesn't have the fan base Max has. 

[Beatrice]

Quote

Heather is a paid professional dancer. She is paid to pick up choreography quickly.  I do not think this is in the least unfair to her.  If she were Bonner or Rashad or anyone who is not familiar with dance terminology and movement then yes it would be unfair. In this case, I think she's gelling well with Alan, maybe moreso than Maks. 

I understand your point and I know a lot of people feel that way, I'm going have to disagree though. Yes dancing is easier for her, but again she is not a ballroom dancer, in addition this is a live tv show, audience voting is involved. There are a lot of other factors other than oh she's a dancer. I know at the beginning of the switch Heather mentioned it was an easy switch for her physically but the emotional part was hard changing partners. I just feel she shouldn't have to change again after building a partnership with Alan for so many weeks. I just saw an interview with Access Hollywood and Peta said Maks could be out for another two weeks. Time for him to withdraw in my opinion.

Heather also hasn't been dancing professionally for quite some time now.

[RedFiat]

When you say "quite some time" that's relative to what?   Heather probably has more dance cred than half the back up dancers on the show.  She maintains a dancer's body by dancing . She has been dancing for 29 years, she says she's been dancing since she was a year old, when her older siblings went to dance class she wanted to go as well. She puts in 12 hour dance rehearsals, so stamina is not an issue. She has been in countless videos and commercials dancing. Like the pros on DWTS she has a dance fitness video.  She got her job on Glee by teaching dance to others.  Let's put it this way, Heather specializes in Jazz and Hip Hop, she has more hours training that dance style than Alan does training Ballroom and Latin.  She has shown Maks some moves,  if she tried out for SYTYCD she would have had a familiarity with Ballroom and Latin because to compete on that show you have to have some cross training.  Artem competed on SYTYCD and has some cross training, as does Lindsay and Witney...  Allan as well, and that's why he and Heather work so well together. They have the same vocabulary. 

[shoregirl]

She was a dancer on Glee that is why she intially got hired on Glee ( it certainly imo wasn't for her acting or singing) . Glee ended 2 years ago that to me isn't some time ago. While her background isn't ballroom doesn't her training  teach about detention and arm placement? Doesn't her training help her pick up choreography quicker than most?

[TeeMo]

If Maks is going to be out another 2 weeks than Alan should definitely step in permanently. Two more weeks of dancing with Alan means 5 weeksbof dances with him. That is basically half the season. It is not fair to Heather or Alan to have Maks jump back in at the quarter or semi finals. 

[Beatrice]

9 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

When you say "quite some time" that's relative to what?   Heather probably has more dance cred than half the back up dancers on the show.  She maintains a dancer's body by dancing . She has been dancing for 29 years, she says she's been dancing since she was a year old, when her older siblings went to dance class she wanted to go as well. She puts in 12 hour dance rehearsals, so stamina is not an issue. She has been in countless videos and commercials dancing. Like the pros on DWTS she has a dance fitness video.  She got her job on Glee by teaching dance to others.  Let's put it this way, Heather specializes in Jazz and Hip Hop, she has more hours training that dance style than Alan does training Ballroom and Latin.  She has shown Maks some moves,  if she tried out for SYTYCD she would have had a familiarity with Ballroom and Latin because to compete on that show you have to have some cross training.  Artem competed on SYTYCD and has some cross training, as does Lindsay and Witney...  Allan as well, and that's why he and Heather work so well together. They have the same vocabulary. 

I'm not arguing her dance ability. I'm just talking about my opinion on switching partners on dwts. Which is not just a dance show.

[RedFiat]

Well that's interesting. People  want her to stay with Alan so it would be more fair to her, and yet Maks is the marquee pro, not Alan. Last season non dancer James Hinchcliffe missed two weeks not dancing with Sharna, got his highest score of the season dancing with someone other than Sharna, but everyone wanted James and Sharna to continue,  not James and Jenna.   Alan did a great job with Paige Van Zant when he stepped in for Mark, and yet people wanted Paige to go back to Mark even though the show tried to showmance Alan and Paige.

Bottom line, Alan is doing a better job and is more invested in Heather than Maks is.  IMO it has nothing to do with her ability to switch partners, it's about how the pro respects his celebrity. 

[RedFiat]

1 hour ago, TeeMo said:

If Maks is going to be out another 2 weeks than Alan should definitely step in permanently. Two more weeks of dancing with Alan means 5 weeksbof dances with him. That is basically half the season. It is not fair to Heather or Alan to have Maks jump back in at the quarter or semi finals. 

If Heather continues with an upward trajectory, then Maks may step back in.  But, I think Maks has thrown in the towel and IMO his praise of Alan was more about Maks being more invested in other pursuits.

[Uke]

For those who have Snapchat, the DancingABC account has several snaps of Maks in rehearsal, actively teaching Heather and Alan.  He's looking pretty good moving around.  I don't know if he's ready to dance on Monday, but he's moving well.

[Toonces464]

If Maks doesn't return this season, or even if he does after weeks of Alan dancing with Heather, he has a ready made excuse for why he couldn't win with a professional dancer as his partner. Which I personally think became his plan one he realized Heather wasn't going to win.

I'm not saying he's not hurt. I'm just not at all sure this injury is what he's making it out to be, especially after seeing him fly across the country to speak at a medical convention last week.

[Beatrice]

1 hour ago, RedFiat said:

Well that's interesting. People  want her to stay with Alan so it would be more fair to her, and yet Maks is the marquee pro, not Alan. Last season non dancer James Hinchcliffe missed two weeks not dancing with Sharna, got his highest score of the season dancing with someone other than Sharna, but everyone wanted James and Sharna to continue,  not James and Jenna.   Alan did a great job with Paige Van Zant when he stepped in for Mark, and yet people wanted Paige to go back to Mark even though the show tried to showmance Alan and Paige.

Bottom line, Alan is doing a better job and is more invested in Heather than Maks is.  IMO it has nothing to do with her ability to switch partners, it's about how the pro respects his celebrity. 

I think the difference is timing of the injury between Maks and Sharna. I agree with completely about the rest.

Quote

If Heather continues with an upward trajectory, then Maks may step back in.  But, I think Maks has thrown in the towel and IMO his praise of Alan was more about Maks being more invested in other pursuits.

I think because he realizes Heather isn't winning. It's nice he was in rehearsal today.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Beatrice

[kitcloudkicker]

2 hours ago, Uke said:

For those who have Snapchat, the DancingABC account has several snaps of Maks in rehearsal, actively teaching Heather and Alan.  He's looking pretty good moving around.  I don't know if he's ready to dance on Monday, but he's moving well.

They also gave the hint that their dance is "very cold." Do you think they're stuck with "Do You Want To Build a Snowman?" Because that's a bummer. Its been a few years since Frozen took over the world but I'm still not over being sick of it. And they've already done "Let it Go" and "Love is an Open Door."  Snowman seems like the next best known song. (Bleh)

[Uke]

24 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

They also gave the hint that their dance is "very cold." Do you think they're stuck with "Do You Want To Build a Snowman?" Because that's a bummer. Its been a few years since Frozen took over the world but I'm still not over being sick of it. And they've already done "Let it Go" and "Love is an Open Door."  Snowman seems like the next best known song. (Bleh)

No idea. But tptb do like to re-use songs and I'm soooooo sick of Let it Go! The snowman song just seems a really really childish choice for a grown woman. I've no idea.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

I'm not saying he's not hurt. I'm just not at all sure this injury is what he's making it out to be, especially after seeing him fly across the country to speak at a medical convention last week.

I really don't like Max but I think this is unfair.  I've seen many sports stars get injured, look like they've returned to normal but still can't get cleared to play.  There's a difference between sitting and walking and the physicality needed to jump and kick in a dance. Going back to work too soon after an injury could make it worse. 

However, I do understand the complaints that he should be spending more time in LA for rehearsal.  It does feel like he has just handed off his partner. 

5 hours ago, RedFiat said:

Bottom line, Alan is doing a better job and is more invested in Heather than Maks is.  IMO it has nothing to do with her ability to switch partners, it's about how the pro respects his celebrity. 

I think that's partially true but I also think a factor is that the injury happened in rehearsals for week 2.  We didn't really have time to bond with them as a couple.  I also think that Heather's ability and training is a better match for Alan's more straight forward choreography.  He puts in a lot of content.  Max is more flash. 

But I think Max wants his pro partner paycheck.  And DWTS sees Max as one of their marquee pros.  Whatever is "best" for Heather or preferred by people online doesn't matter compared to what ABC considers best for the show.

[Toonces464]

29 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I really don't like Max but I think this is unfair.  I've seen many sports stars get injured, look like they've returned to normal but still can't get cleared to play.  There's a difference between sitting and walking and the physicality needed to jump and kick in a dance. Going back to work too soon after an injury could make it worse. 

However, I do understand the complaints that he should be spending more time in LA for rehearsal.  It does feel like he has just handed off his partner. 

Actually that's what I was getting at. I find it strange that a doctor who's treating a patient for what's been described as a serious leg injury would ask that patient to fly across the country to speak at a conference. But I have more of an issue with Maks agreeing to do it when he had just spent a week in Ohio. His partner is supposed to be his priority this season, not shilling for Dr. Seeds.

It also makes me question if this appearance was pre-planned or not, because if it was, what was Maks doing scheduling something like this at a time he should have been teaching his partner. If it wasn't, then again I question his priorities and his dedication that he chose to blow off more time at rehearsals to do this.

[Irlandesa]

4 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I find it strange that a doctor who's treating a patient for what's been described as a serious leg injury would ask that patient to fly across the country to speak at a conference.

That's last minute but I don't find it strange.  Again, he could be in good walking shape soon after his surgery--just not good dancing shape.  Heck, we don't even know much about this injury.  Did he have to have surgery?  Or did he just have surgery because it would get him back in dancing form faster than just waiting for it to heal naturally.

And I don't even see it as a big deal that he went to this in the middle of the week.  Often the stars have crazy schedules. And since he can't practice, he doesn't need to be with them every day.  But what did stand out is that he couldn't even be in rehearsal one day for them to film him. 

[katha]

Maks was in rehearsal last week as well, he also choreographed the cha cha together with Alan. I know the hate for him is strong, but a lot what's being thrown around is just fairytales at this point. He wasn't present for one week, he's been involved in everything since then. Perhaps it wasn't in the package and Maks is older, so he doesn't make as much promo for himself on social media as Alan does, but that doesn't change facts. It's been confirmed that he was actively involved in both teaching and choreo this last week, for next week as well. Alan did one week of solo work (the tango), Maks has been involved in everything else. He'll probably be back for this week. And the injury is really not his fault. Reading some of the stuff out there, at this point I hope he comes back and kicks some serious ass. Maks annoys me a lot as well, but he's basically done everything he can considering his situation and the baseless rumours flying around are just nasty and not based in any sort of facts.

[Zuleikha]

 if she tried out for SYTYCD she would have had a familiarity with Ballroom and Latin because to compete on that show you have to have some cross training.

 That's not true. There is no cross-training requirement to try out. I forget how far Heather went (Green Mile, I think?) but many a dancer without cross training has made it through to Green Mile. Cross-training is advantageous, but absolutely not required. Very few jazz or hip-hop dancers have Dancesport training, and in the early seasons (i.e. Heather's audition season) few of the Dancesport dancers had jazz or studio hip hop training.

She has an advantage with choreography pick up, base musicality, and spotting turns, but her biggest advantage IMHO is simply talent. 

[RedFiat]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And since he can't practice, he doesn't need to be with them every day.  But what did stand out is that he couldn't even be in rehearsal one day for them to film him. 

And the difference here is other pros who have been injured still maintained the rehearsal schedule. Sharna had the same doctor, and yet she stayed with the show right after the surgery. Check out Season 12 when Kym Johnson had a almost career ending injury.  Cheryl stepped in for a time, but Kym was right back there. She would choreograph with a neck brace on... Original pros even if they can't dance are their to choreograph and be the critical eye.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by RedFiat

[Toonces464]

8 hours ago, katha said:

Maks is older, so he doesn't make as much promo for himself on social media as Alan does

Maks' middle name is self promotion.

8 hours ago, katha said:

It's been confirmed that he was actively involved in both teaching and choreo this last week

Where has this been confirmed? I haven't seen anything confirming that he was actively involved in either last week.

[TeeMo]

I've said previously that I was once a very big fan of Maks. He has always been my favorite pro and I have come to his defense millions of times over the years. As a Maks fan I have also followed the super weird development of his relationship with Dr. Seeds (and his wife who used to follow the DWTS tours around the midwest and attend every DWTS premiere and finale dressed like she was going to the Oscars) and that is why a lot of this smells fishy to me. Maks has previously been treated by Dr. Andrews, orthopaedic surgeon to sports superstars and he now flies to the middle of Ohio for treatment from a guy who runs a medical clinic out of a strip mall. It's odd. I was also perplexed by Maks' immediate declaration in the rehearsal package showing his injury when he said "Worst case scenario, I am done forever" or something like that which just seemed super dramatic. Then he was photographed walking around LA with Peta later that week seemingly okay only to jet off to Ohio the following Tuesday for surgery. Or not for surgery. It's unclear what he actually had done. Peta said surgery and Maks posted a photo of himself in a hospital bed looking like he was pre or post op but then it sounds like he actually had a procedure to extract stem cells from his bone marrow and then inject them into his calf? I think Maks, Peta and Sharna are very invested in this narrative of Dr. Seeds as miracle worker for reasons I do not fully understand. Maks being able to speak at a conference on Dr. Seeds behalf having just been treated by the miracle worker is pretty convenient. 

At any rate I am sure he did injure himself and I don't blame him for being cautious but I am a little skeptical of the situation as a whole. Having watched and loved Maks for years I know that he is prone to make decisions that he almost instantly regrets (like Ukranian Bachelor) and then he makes further choices to get out of those decisions. He bails on events fairly regularly (off the top of my head I can think of a charity event in FL he missed twice  and he bailed on the Shall We Dance on Ice hosting gig 2 years ago due to a "scheduling conflict" which involved being Peta's date to an event she was hosting). He made such a big show of proclaiming he would never return to DWTS as a pro (again!) just a few months ago and I've been wondering if he regretted coming back right away and decided to use the injury a bit more than is really warranted to be able to back away. 

This should all probably be in the Maks thread. Sorry mods. 

Also, I know this sounds like something that would be written by someone who has it out for Maks and I really don't. He was my favorite pro for years and I think he does unfairly get a bad rap for certain things but I also know he is problematic so I look at a lot of his actions with a skeptical eye. 

2 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Maks' middle name is self promotion.

Where has this been confirmed? I haven't seen anything confirming that he was actively involved in either last week.

I did see a postshow interview with Heather where she talked about Alan and Maks finding a good way to tell her story so he did help. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by TeeMo

[RedFiat]

8 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

That's not true. There is no cross-training requirement to try out. I forget how far Heather went (Green Mile, I think?) but many a dancer without cross training has made it through to Green Mile. Cross-training is advantageous, but absolutely not required. Very few jazz or hip-hop dancers have Dancesport training, and in the early seasons (i.e. Heather's audition season) few of the Dancesport dancers had jazz or studio hip hop training.

Not true?  Every winner on that show has at least taken some ballroom and latin lessons.  Nigel harped about people should take ballroom and latin. The fact that she didn't get very far tells me if she didn't bother she should have.  And consequently I suspect she's taken some.  You don't get that proficient at Tango without it.     

8 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

he has an advantage with choreography pick up, base musicality, and spotting turns, but her biggest advantage IMHO is simply talent. 

Simply talent would be someone like Rashad with no dance training. IMHO 

Edited April 13, 2017 by RedFiat

[Beatrice]

8 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Not true?  Every winner on that show has at least taken some ballroom and latin lessons.  Nigel harped about people should take ballroom and latin. The fact that she didn't get very far tells me if she didn't bother she should have.  And consequently I suspect she's taken some.  You don't get that proficient at Tango without it.     

Simply talent would be someone like Rashad with no dance training. IMHO 

She said she hasn't had any ballroom training so I'm just taking her word on that. I think with that Tango what you saw was how quickly she is able to improve because she's a dancer. I know a lot of people see no growth in her but if you compare her first dance to the Tango I see the improvement. I was shocked Carrie Ann mentioned it as well because I don't except her to notice anything like that.

[RedFiat]

13 minutes ago, Beatrice said:

She said she hasn't had any ballroom training so I'm just taking her word on that.

I'm not.  She may consider a few lessons to prepare no training, but she's had some lessons prior to this show.  IMHO.  ETA: if she got through "Vegas week" on SYTYCD you have to do ballroom.  If she couldn't make top 20 on SYTYCD it's because she was lacking in a dance style. She's not going to make that same mistake twice.     

Edited April 13, 2017 by RedFiat

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, TeeMo said:

I did see a postshow interview with Heather where she talked about Alan and Maks finding a good way to tell her story so he did help. 

Thank you.

As for the rest of your post.....word. I could have written it myself.

[realdancemom]

1 hour ago, RedFiat said:

I'm not.  She may consider a few lessons to prepare no training, but she's had some lessons prior to this show.  IMHO.  ETA: if she got through "Vegas week" on SYTYCD you have to do ballroom.  If she couldn't make top 20 on SYTYCD it's because she was lacking in a dance style. She's not going to make that same mistake twice.     

Heather auditioned in Season 2.  Back then, a lot of the contestants were not cross-trained.  She made it through Vegas week which meant that she had to learn a ballroom routine in one day and then do it well enough to pass that round.  That just means that she can pick up choreography quickly.  That does not mean she is ballroom trained.

[RedFiat]

And again looking at the winners on that show and the smart ones were cross trained. She obviously wasn't. But she has partner danced contrary to the bullshit her publicist puts out 

[Zuleikha]

She has literally danced with a partner, at least once on Glee. But dancing with a partner and dancing a partner-dance style are different things. I think it's very likely she has never danced a lead-follow dance style before. The winner of SYTYCD the season that Heather auditioned was not cross-trained at all, by the way. 

Heather is also not the first dancer who has danced at the professional level, although she does have the most impressive credentials. But a number of the seasons have had a contestant with some professional dance work, including the very first season with former Miami Heat dancer Trista Sutter (who didn't actually do that well). 

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, RedFiat said:

And again looking at the winners on that show and the smart ones were cross trained. She obviously wasn't. But she has partner danced contrary to the bullshit her publicist puts out 

So the dancers who won without being cross trained were....idiots?  Hee.  It is true that once SYTYCD became a sensation and people realized the requirements, cross training became a focus for those who wanted to succeed on it.  But Season 2 was a little early for people to put in work they hadn't already put in. 

But back to whether or not Heather has trained in other and/or partner styles.   I would disagree that the thing she took from missing out on the Top 20 at SYTYCD is that she needed to be more versatile.  If she were lacking in a style, she would have been cut after that style's round in Vegas.  Instead she got cut during the gauntlet phase which usually followed a look at their whole body of work and, in later seasons, a solo.  Heck, the actual winner of that season's specialty was West Coast Swing, which wasn't even a style they do.  He likely had some Latin training as well but not hip hop or contemporary.  At the stage where she got cut, they were in a pure casting process looking at so many factors outside of dance.  They have a few ballroom dancers, contemporary dancers, odd category dancers (tap, swing, ballet...etc.) and hip hop dancers.  The hip hop dancers, especially in the early seasons, often had relatively little training period. 

I get the argument, though, that if she wanted to succeed on a show like this, she would take dance classes in the style.  It's true that we don't know but I don't think it's exclusive to her.  I think any star who has wanted to be on the show might potentially take some classes in attempt to get a head start.

[RedFiat]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I get the argument, though, that if she wanted to succeed on a show like this, she would take dance classes in the style.  It's true that we don't know but I don't think it's exclusive to her.  I think any star who has wanted to be on the show might potentially take some classes in attempt to get a head start.

Well absolutely, back in the day Apolo Ohno and Jason Taylor mentioned they took a few lessons prior to going on the show..  Sherri Shepherd was crucified for being "seen" at a Dance With Me Studio, and tearfully broken down on the View about it.  Certainly, I wouldn't mind Sheri taking a lesson or two,as long as it wasn't with the assigned pro, it somehow defeats the whole "meeting my partner for the first time" schitick they do.  

But these folks are all rank amateurs. 

Now you have a pro dancer/ choreographer assistant on this show with a career path that looks more like JLo than Emmitt Smith..and for sure she's taken more than a turn around the ballroom.  It's a whole new world.  

[katha]

My issue is with the producers here, they blatantly cast her to get this controversy going. Now she has to do jazz for Disney week, which is just ridiculous. The same nonsense they engineered when they gave Zendaya hip hop or Corbin jazz. They want the backlash, they want as much backlash as possible. She shouldn't be doing jazz, but it's not her call. Then once again the judges will ream her out, she'll get dragged around the block online. She's already getting dragged for it. It's a total clown car they've got going here. You can't roll your eyes enough about how blatant they are about it all. They're basically salivating at the possibility to make her the "shocking elimination". Or, if she makes finals, to get in as much press and articles bashing her and her dance experience. Blah.

I don't even find her particularly compelling as a performer, but the moment they invited her to join the cast, it's all on DWTS. And it's always distasteful when they start their manipulations and mindgames with the candidates.

[Venee]

19 hours ago, RedFiat said:

I'm not.  She may consider a few lessons to prepare no training, but she's had some lessons prior to this show.  IMHO.  ETA: if she got through "Vegas week" on SYTYCD you have to do ballroom.  If she couldn't make top 20 on SYTYCD it's because she was lacking in a dance style. She's not going to make that same mistake twice.     

I wrote a lengthy reason as to why a dancer could not make top 20 in the main thread (don't feel like retyping it all but it's there) in short, none of it had to do with lacking in a dance style. FACT: the eventual winner of the season she auditioned for Benji Shwimmer wasn't even in the top 20 originally. He replaced a dancer whose Visa didn't clear in time. His specialty was ballroom, specifically West Coast swing (as someone said). His sister Lacy (top 4 on SYTYCD the following year) was a Pro on DWTS for a bit. She's far from the Ringiest Ringer (I love the ringers, so I'm never pressed about that on this show)

20 hours ago, RedFiat said:

Not true?  Every winner on that show has at least taken some ballroom and latin lessons.  Nigel harped about people should take ballroom and latin. The fact that she didn't get very far tells me if she didn't bother she should have.  And consequently I suspect she's taken some.  You don't get that proficient at Tango without it.     

Simply talent would be someone like Rashad with no dance training. IMHO 

I have a different opinion on "natural talent".  The idea that years of dance lessons means you can't be a natural is bogus. Look no further than the SYTYCD auditions. Time and time again you'll see a dancer step up to the mike and tell Nigel they've had dance lessons since 3 and be a total mess. Heck I've personally seen dancers with years of training, that are mediocre or worse. 

[Beatrice]

4 hours ago, katha said:

My issue is with the producers here, they blatantly cast her to get this controversy going. Now she has to do jazz for Disney week, which is just ridiculous. The same nonsense they engineered when they gave Zendaya hip hop or Corbin jazz. They want the backlash, they want as much backlash as possible. She shouldn't be doing jazz, but it's not her call. Then once again the judges will ream her out, she'll get dragged around the block online. She's already getting dragged for it. It's a total clown car they've got going here. You can't roll your eyes enough about how blatant they are about it all. They're basically salivating at the possibility to make her the "shocking elimination". Or, if she makes finals, to get in as much press and articles bashing her and her dance experience. Blah.

I don't even find her particularly compelling as a performer, but the moment they invited her to join the cast, it's all on DWTS. And it's always distasteful when they start their manipulations and mindgames with the candidates.

Totally. The show knows exactly what they are doing.

Maks, who has never done jazz, is choreographing though so that evens things out in my mind. ha.

[RedFiat]

3 hours ago, Venee said:

The idea that years of dance lessons means you can't be a natural is bogus. Look no further than the SYTYCD auditions.

To insist Heather is  simply a natural talent is to negate all her training, and this isn't SYTYCD which celebrates as much training as you can get, its DWTS which celebrates popularity despite any training. SYTYCD tries to ferret out the naturals and give them an easier ride, but eventually their lack of training betrays them and they never win. Nigel has tried to get these so called naturals a win, the so called LeRoys from Fame the guys from out of nowhere the opportunity to win the whole enchilada, but you find out later that phenoms like Russell or Joshua  have been training dance styles for years, but since there was a rawness to their dancing it was considered no prior training. But here, on DWTS Rashad is popular not only because of his sport, although as a free agent he does not have an organized fan base like David, he's demonstrated a natural ability and talent that Emma could never teach. The audience gets to see this first hand, his lack of technical ballroom and latin training but they also see his ability.  And there are those with simply talent and not much of any prior training who have won this show.  We can not measure Heather by that standard because she has been training dance for pretty much her entire life.  We assume there is natural ability there because of all the jobs in professional dance she has done. Any professional dancer who makes their living dancing must have dance talent.  It is like David having natural baseball talent. To use a baseball analogy she has not been plucked up from the Dominican Republic as a 16 year old with a helluva pitching arm. She is far from being a raw talent. Her dance movement has been carefully crafted over years of training. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by RedFiat

[RedFiat]

13 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

She has literally danced with a partner, at least once on Glee. But dancing with a partner and dancing a partner-dance style are different things. I think it's very likely she has never danced a lead-follow dance style before. The winner of SYTYCD the season that Heather auditioned was not cross-trained at all, by the way. 

Heather is also not the first dancer who has danced at the professional level, although she does have the most impressive credentials. But a number of the seasons have had a contestant with some professional dance work, including the very first season with former Miami Heat dancer Trista Sutter (who didn't actually do that well). 

Nobody until this season  has been  a professional dancer competing on this show.  They all have been singers or actors or athletes first, the dance was a secondary pursuit to enhance their first love of sport or music or acting. Certainly someone who dances for a basketball team on the weekends for next to no money just to supplement their day job is not  in the same league as a pro who dances for a living.  There is no comparison to the type of intense training Heather routinely does in dance. Heather like the pros on this show is a dancer first, everything else is secondary.  Carrie Ann danced with Madonna,  Heather danced with Beyonce.  Of the hundreds and maybe even thousands who try out to be back up dancers to these icons they have to be at the top of their profession. There is too much competition out there to be otherwise. It is just ridiculous to have her on the show. But it is what it is. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by RedFiat

[realdancemom]

9 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Nobody until this season  has been  a professional dancer competing on this show.  They all have been singers or actors or athletes first, the dance was a secondary pursuit to enhance their first love of sport or music or acting. Certainly someone who dances for a basketball team on the weekends for next to no money just to supplement their day job is in the same league as a pro who dances for a living.  There is no comparison to the type of intense training Heather routinely does in dance. Heather like the pros on this show is a dancer first, everything else is secondary. 

Corbin Bleu and Alfonso also worked as professional dancers.  With Alfonso, you can say that was decades ago, so he didn't get as much backlash.  Also, most people knew him in Fresh Prince of Bel Air than as a dancer.

Corbin is more like Heather.  And just like Corbin, I think Heather will not win.  Corbin was a better technical dancer than Amber.  However, Amber's personality was more charismatic while Corbin was more PC and polite.  Amber was also a great performer.  Both of them had great freestyles but Corbin's was more expected while Amber's was a surprise.  I see the same thing happening to Heather.  IMHO, I don't think she's as dynamic a performer as Normani.  Honestly, I also don't see Maks creating a great freestyle. 

[RedFiat]

1 minute ago, realdancemom said:

Corbin Bleu and Alfonso also worked as professional dancers.  With Alfonso, you can say that was decades ago, so he didn't get as much backlash.  Also, most people knew him in Fresh Prince of Bel Air than as a dancer.

Corbin is more like Heather.  And just like Corbin, I think Heather will not win.  Corbin was a better technical dancer than Amber.  However, Amber's personality was more charismatic while Corbin was more PC and polite.  Amber was also a great performer.  Both of them had great freestyles but Corbin's was more expected while Amber's was a surprise.  I see the same thing happening to Heather.  IMHO, I don't think she's as dynamic a performer as Normani.  Honestly, I also don't see Maks creating a great freestyle. 

Corbin Bleu has dance training but he wants to be an actor first,  Alphonso had tap training, but similarly wants to be considered an actor first. Now they have had lots of training, but Heather continues to be a dancer first.  As such her professional dance training is more important to her  and consequently she is going to continue to train, whereas someone like Alphonso has allowed his dance to take him in another direction. 

[Beatrice]

9 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Corbin Bleu has dance training but he wants to be an actor first,  Alphonso had tap training, but similarly wants to be considered an actor first. Now they have had lots of training, but Heather continues to be a dancer first.  As such her professional dance training is more important to her  and consequently she is going to continue to train, whereas someone like Alphonso has allowed his dance to take him in another direction. 

Heather quit dancing professionally to be an actress. That was around when Glee started. So pretty much exactly the same situation as Corbin except she has a more impressive dance resume. People hear the name Beyonce and that's all they focus on. That was ten years ago for two years. I agree realdancemom she's not going to win anyway and I have my doubts she'll even make the final even though I really want to see her freestyle.

[realdancemom]

22 minutes ago, Beatrice said:

Heather quit dancing professionally to be an actress. That was around when Glee started. So pretty much exactly the same situation as Corbin except she has a more impressive dance resume. People hear the name Beyonce and that's all they focus on. That was ten years ago for two years. I agree realdancemom she's not going to win anyway and I have my doubts she'll even make the final even though I really want to see her freestyle.

I have my doubts that Heather will be in the finals too.  Right now, I think it will be Normani, Simone, David, and Rashad.  It's too bad because I would like to see freestyles from both Heather and Nancy.

[shoregirl]

31 minutes ago, Beatrice said:

Heather quit dancing professionally to be an actress. That was around when Glee started. 

Was she not a professional dancer when she was on Glee? Because if I can recall she  (along with Harry Shim jr) did the vast majority of the dancing on Glee .

[shantown]

14 minutes ago, shoregirl said:

Was she not a professional dancer when she was on Glee? Because if I can recall she  (along with Harry Shim jr) did the vast majority of the dancing on Glee .

No, she was an actor while on Glee. She and Harry did get some bigger dance numbers (along with Matt Morrison and a few times for Kevin McHale, and later Jacob Artist, and others). But they all did a lot of dancing on that show, or at least moving in unison around a stage. (I wouldn't always call what they did "dancing" but I won't go into it here....)

[RedFiat]

28 minutes ago, shantown said:

No, she was an actor while on Glee. She and Harry did get some bigger dance numbers (along with Matt Morrison and a few times for Kevin McHale, and later Jacob Artist, and others).

She was brought on the set of Glee by the choreographer with whom she had already worked with on other projects to teach the Single Ladies choreography.  That is why she never auditioned for the acting role.   The choreographer had already worked with her as a dancer and a tumbler on other dance projects. 

 

1 hour ago, Beatrice said:

Heather quit dancing professionally to be an actress. That was around when Glee started. So pretty much exactly the same situation as Corbin except she has a more impressive dance resume. People hear the name Beyonce and that's all they focus on. That was ten years ago for two years. I agree realdancemom she's not going to win anyway and I have my doubts she'll even make the final even though I really want to see her freestyle.

Interesting that she quit dance since she was very happy to dance on that show, and the Glee choreographer gave her bits and pieces to choreograph on the show. I do not believe for a second she ever quit dancing.

Edited April 14, 2017 by RedFiat