Switching to Plan B: Improving the Show

[SVNBob]

Assume for a moment that Hunted gets renewed for future seasons.  What changes would you make to improve the show?

 

The biggest change I think that most of us would agree on is making the rules, whatever they are, more clear to the viewing audience.  We've found out more about the rules from interviews and leaks than on the show itself.

I would also push for more visible "real-time" between the fugitives actions and the hunters re- and counter-actions, and less obvious reenactment for TV.   Not that reenactment is bad, but it might be more interesting to see real frustration setting in when the fugitives come up with an interesting plan or dodge escape again and again.

 

To mix things up, I would borrow a bit from TAR.  Several teams (but not all) start at the same time and they have certain "checkpoints" to get to, possibly as substitutes for ATMs.  The teams get cash, but the Hunters learn their location.  That covers the need to keep the fugitives moving and the money rules.  There might also be a bonus reward of some kind for each team at the checkpoint, like a new burner phone or something else relevant.

And then, after 14 days of some teams on the run, start the remainder.  That makes the Hunters have to prioritize who to capture: those closer to escape, or those with fewer resources.

 

What other changes could or should there be?

[loki567]

I think my big thing is to take a lesson from the UK version: 

Quote

When real footage couldn’t be obtained, Channel 4 owned cameras captured footage which would have been available to the state and it was stored on a central database for the Hunters to access if they wished. However, they had to "officially" request the information as if it was a real fugitive hunt.[19] The Hunters were overseen by an independent adjudicator, former Head of Covert Operations for the Metropolitan Police, Kevin O’Leary, whose job was to make sure that the information requested and gathered by the Hunters reflected the information that would be available to them in real life and within the appropriate time frame. He was the only person who had the power to release information to the Hunters and would only do so when he considered that the Hunters had done sufficient detective work to justify the access to the information.

So put somebody with official experience as the firewall between the hunters and the information they receive from production. It strikes me that the current system they have set up, with the producers giving the hunters the information directly, can tilt too much to one side or the another. 

[teo47]

First and foremost, I completely agree that the rules need to be stated more clearly to the audience - use the first segment or two of the first episode to go over the rules about things like how the investigators request and receive their information, money usage rules, required movement of teams, and requirement of helpers to assist investigators, etc.  That way more of the teams' actions might make sense, particularly leaving a safe hiding place to travel elsewhere.  As a new rule, I think it would be interesting if teams were allowed to decide to split up, forfeiting the chance for the full $250,000 prize for a smaller prize (say $50,000 or $100,000) if one member of the team made it to the 28 day mark without being captured.  This rule would lead to some interesting decisions that would have to be made if a team felt threatened or that capture was imminent.

Also, I think if there is a second season they should either reduce the number of teams or increase the number of episodes in the season.  There have been a lot of huge time jumps forward (all of a sudden a team is on Day 16 after they just started Day 1 the last time we saw them) and so much jumping back and forth from team to team that there wasn't really a sense of continuity or flow with the exception of David and Emiley, who were the most heavily featured team all season.

Finally, I'd love to see more added as an online component to the show.  It would be great if there were a map on the show website for each team, tracking their path through the hunt zone over the 28 days with clickable links on the map to video clips showing significant events where they happened.  This would be updated after each episode to show the 'current' location of the teams and also a historical record of how they got there.

Edited February 25, 2017 by teo47

[Lakebum]

1. Make the rules

2. Explain ALL of the rules.

3. Don't change the rules.

4. Don't treat your viewers as if they are idiots who don't notice things like "The hunters wear the same clothes every day" and "there are rules they're not telling us about," etc.

5. Realize that the arrogance of the hunters plus the unfair rules cause people to pull for the Hunted, not the Hunters.

[Lakebum]

OK, another idea, not quite as snarky as the one I posted before...

Offer a reward to anyone who gives information that leads to a capture, with two conditions:

1. The capture must be made withing a two-mile radius of where the informer says they are,

AND

2. the capture must be made within 24 hours of the hunters getting the info.

This makes staying on the move a good idea, but doesn't FORCE anyone to move if they don't feel as if they are in danger.

[TheRabbi]

Good ideas all around. I came here to say the same. Stack the rules in favor of the hunters all you want, but please treat the viewers with respect and let us know what they are. I also like the online idea that was mentioned so we can keep track of the teams history better.

As for editing, there should be a better balance of teams. I understand the need to have more compelling storylines such as David and Emily being front and center, but its very hard to follow some of them. There should be greater continuity for being able to see how teams did in comparison to each other. Honestly, other than those awful DimWigs getting caught in an hour, I couldn't tell you how long anyone else lasted compared to other teams.

[teo47]

One more idea for improvement:  Don't introduce a ridiculous new rule for the first time during the last episode that wouldn't even be realistic or safe to do in the real game (let's have our players run several miles down busy streets carrying clear plastic bags full of $250,000 in cash - great idea!).  This new rule accompanied by footage that was entirely filmed after the fact (confirmed by Twitter with posed photo of team with hunter in the outfits they were wearing on the finale) and totally staged drama of the hunters arriving at the airport just as the plane is taking off (yeah right).  Show some respect for the intelligence of your viewers and don't just make stuff up for what you think is 'good TV' but is actually just crap.

Edited March 2, 2017 by teo47

[Nashville]

Post

ALL

The

Rules

In

Advance!!!!!!!

[Wings]

FB off limits. What criminal, on the lamb, has their life and contacts online?  Certainly not the guy on the news last night who they have been hunting since 2003 for fuck sake!   

Balance is needed. Thanks @loki567 for that ino on UK show. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

FB off limits. What criminal, on the lamb, has their life and contacts online?  Certainly not the guy on the news last night who they have been hunting since 2003 for fuck sake!   

Balance is needed. Thanks @loki567 for that ino on UK show. 

I disagree with this one.  Real life fugitives weren't always fugitives, so most would have some social media accounts.   Even if they are able to delete their social media profiles, law enforcement would probably be able to get them reactivated or get into them.  Plus, all their posts on other people's pages would still be there, so it would leave a pretty good trail of who their friends and acquaintances are.

[Wings]

Just now, Bryce Lynch said:

I disagree with this one.  Real life fugitives weren't always fugitives, so most would have some social media accounts.   Even if they are able to delete their social media profiles, law enforcement would probably be able to get them reactivated or get into them.  Plus, all their posts on other people's pages would still be there, so it would leave a pretty good trail of who their friends and acquaintances are.

I do understand that but, for the sake of this show, there have to be some limits for the hunters and an advantage for the fugitives.  Since they are dealing with law abiding contestants whose life is much easier to access than many petty criminals, in general, it might help our viewing pleasure.  

It appeared that English had the right idea and very disappointing we did not see more of their flight.  Strangers is definitely the way to go.  Maybe in interviews we can learn more about how they manged to gain the trust and kindness of strangers without telling them what kind of show they were on, or did they?  

[Bryce Lynch]

I agree with many of the suggestions above.  Mine are:

1) Disclose all the major rules up front.  If less important rules affect a team's decisions, explain those rules as the situations arise.

2) Show what day each team is on, each time they cut back to them.  It is ridiculous that we often didn't know if a team was on day 3 or day 23.

3) Scrap the cash pickup in the finale or give the hunters far less information about it.  

4) Have a website that explains how they simulated various law enforcement methods (license plate scanners, phone recordings, cctv, etc.) that we know a TV show would not have access to.  Have the hunters explain how real law enforcement could have gotten this info.

I think the website would be the perfect way to do this, as it would inform those who want to know how things were really done, while allowing those who would rather not know how their reality show sausage is made to maintain the fantasy that it is really happening as shown.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I do understand that but, for the sake of this show, there have to be some limits for the hunters and an advantage for the fugitives.  Since they are dealing with law abiding contestants whose life is much easier to access than many petty criminals, in general, it might help our viewing pleasure.  

It appeared that English had the right idea and very disappointing we did not see more of their flight.  Strangers is definitely the way to go.  Maybe in interviews we can learn more about how they manged to gain the trust and kindness of strangers without telling them what kind of show they were on, or did they?  

Remember the fugitives also have some advantages:

1) Friends who help them or lie for them can't be charged with felonies as in real life.  This gives the hunters far less leverage in questioning them.

2) The hunters don't have local law enforcement looking for the fugitives and they can't call them in.  If the hunters find out exactly where a team is hiding, but ate 2 hours away, they might not get there in time.  In real life they could call the local police or sheriff's dept to pick them up in minutes.

3) On the show the fugitives only need to avoid getting caught for 28 days.  In real life it would be more like 28 years.  They would need to find ways to get permanent shelter and obtain money to buy food, clothing etc, unless they went into the wilderness and lived off the land, which very few people could do. 

[teo47]

11 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

4) Have a website that explains how they simulated various law enforcement methods (license plate scanners, phone recordings, cctv, etc.) that we know a TV show would not have access to.  Have the hunters explain how real law enforcement could have gotten this info.

I think the website would be the perfect way to do this, as it would inform those who want to know how things were really done, while allowing those who would rather not know how their reality show sausage is made to maintain the fantasy that it is really happening as shown.

The show website could have been such a great addition to the show, but unfortunately what CBS put up there looks like it was thrown together in an afternoon by an intern or something, and lacks very little additional information about the show or its rules.  It also willingly volunteers information about the misleading editing the show used, such as this quote from an interview with Emiley:

Emiley: Oh, the calendar. The calendar was 100-percent a ruse. We actually have a picture a friend took of us filling it out with fake addresses. So, I'll just say that.

Yet on the show, the hunters repeatedly use the calendar to track their movements and are shown getting the exact address of the cabin they were in from it.

[Wings]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Remember the fugitives also have some advantages:

1) Friends who help them or lie for them can't be charged with felonies as in real life.  This gives the hunters far less leverage in questioning them.

2) The hunters don't have local law enforcement looking for the fugitives and they can't call them in.  If the hunters find out exactly where a team is hiding, but ate 2 hours away, they might not get there in time.  In real life they could call the local police or sheriff's dept to pick them up in minutes.

3) On the show the fugitives only need to avoid getting caught for 28 days.  In real life it would be more like 28 years.  They would need to find ways to get permanent shelter and obtain money to buy food, clothing etc, unless they went into the wilderness and lived off the land, which very few people could do. 

Some good points but friends have proven to be more of a liability since they are easily found and tracked.  And some don't lie!  

28 days, yes but the biggest problem is the second ATM pick up that negates all they did to get to that point.  They basically start over at that point.  Staying close to the first ATM and using that again the next day is probably the way to go.  None of them needed more than $200.  

The hunters don't need local law enforcement.  They have way too much at hand coupled with no time constraints to get court ordered permission for some things.  

2 minutes ago, teo47 said:

Emiley: Oh, the calendar. The calendar was 100-percent a ruse. We actually have a picture a friend took of us filling it out with fake addresses. So, I'll just say that.

Yet on the show, the hunters repeatedly use the calendar to track their movements and are shown getting the exact address of the cabin they were in from it.

Ha!  Nope, the hunters followed their course! 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Some good points but friends have proven to be more of a liability since they are easily found and tracked.  And some don't lie!  

28 days, yes but the biggest problem is the second ATM pick up that negates all they did to get to that point.  They basically start over at that point.  Staying close to the first ATM and using that again the next day is probably the way to go.  None of them needed more than $200.  

The hunters don't need local law enforcement.  They have way too much at hand coupled with no time constraints to get court ordered permission for some things.  

 

The hunters do have some unrealistic advantages, and on balance, I think they have too many, but the fugitives definitely have some advantages too.

While some helpers became liabilities others were very helpful.  In the real world, few people would aid or lie for real fugitives (who presumably actually did something very bad) at risk of going to prison.  Close friends and family members might, but they would be on the radar of real law enforcement.  It is highly unlikely Sam Huff would have hidden 2 real life Muslim fugitives who he didn't know and I doubt English and Steve would be invited to the home of a brother of a friend of a long lost friend, if the FBI was really after them.

The hunters don't "need" local law enforcement, but in real life they would be a tremendous asset as they would allow them to move on intelligence they get much more rapidly.  They would also provide intelligence and might even catch the fugitives on things like routine traffic stops.   An argument could be made that the lack of local law enforcement help, could justify giving the hunters the seemingly enhanced and more real time surveillance powers that they have on the show, to balance things out.  

What really bothers me is the total BS "hunches" of the the hunters like, "Rebecca is must be the one UNC classmate she hadn't seen in 15 years, out of the thousands of others, that English would seek out, for help; and "they're gonna use a sea plane!".   

The original discussion was about Facebook, and I think it is totally realistic and fair for the hunters to use the fugitives social media accounts as a resource.  

Edited March 2, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Wings]

15 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

What really bothers me is the total BS "hunches" of the the hunters like, "Rebecca is must be the one UNC classmate she hadn't seen in 15 years, out of the thousands of others, that English would seek out, for help; and "they're gonna use a sea plane!".   

This is why it is difficult to believe the fugitives have enough advantage to make this a good TV show or even a reasonable one! 

Edited March 2, 2017 by wings707

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, wings707 said:

This is why it is difficult to believe the fugitives have enough advantage to make this a good TV show or even a reasonable one! 

Well, 2 teams did make it to the end.   The sea plane and Rebecca "hunches" and probably a few more things I am forgetting seem to be more like outright cheating on the part of the hunters than advantages.  I believe they were fed that information by the producers or camera crews, as it is practically inconceivable to me that they could have come up with those things on their own. 

[Wings]

Just now, Bryce Lynch said:

Well, 2 teams did make it to the end.   The sea plane and Rebecca "hunches" and probably a few more things I am forgetting seem to be more like outright cheating on the part of the hunters than advantages.  I believe they were fed that information by the producers or camera crews, as it is practically inconceivable to me that they could have come up with those things on their own. 

Or it was all staged for the dramatic ending with the hunters, foiled, watching the planes disappear into the sky.  Dang, we just missed them.  Yuh. 

[GaT]

I would like the hunter's ability to search people's houses, etc to be more realistic. They would normally have to get a judge to approve a search warrant & it doesn't always happen, so I would like some way to randomize whether they can do a search or not so they don't always get their way.

The hunters shouldn't be able to just throw large amounts of money at people to get them to turn on the hunted.

No multiple "have to" check ins to pinpoint the hunted's location. That pretty much takes away any of the hunted's ability to hide if no matter how well they do it, they have to tell the hunters where they are.

[Nashville]

Don't restrict the runners to ONLY the ATMs as a cash source.  Let them beg/panhandle, cut grass, flip burgers, pick up bottles, etc.  Production can leave the ATMs as an available option - but one that runners would probably use only as an absolute LAST resort, with full knowledge its use would paint a barn-sized bullseye on their current location within minutes.  You know - just like real fugitives.  :)

[teo47]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

Don't restrict the runners to ONLY the ATMs as a cash source.  Let them beg/panhandle, cut grass, flip burgers, pick up bottles, etc.  Production can leave the ATMs as an available option - but one that runners would probably use only as an absolute LAST resort, with full knowledge its use would paint a barn-sized bullseye on their current location within minutes.  You know - just like real fugitives.  :)

The only problem with this is that it would be easy for teams to manipulate the rule - get a couple thousand dollars in cash before the game and give it to a friend, then pick the cash up from the friend after the game has started and you're all set.  I kind of like the ATM rule because while like many other aspects of the game it isn't completely realistic, it requires the teams to plan and use good strategy in order to withdraw money without being caught.

[kharley]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:22 AM, wings707 said:

Or it was all staged for the dramatic ending with the hunters, foiled, watching the planes disappear into the sky.  Dang, we just missed them.  Yuh. 

You never actually saw the hunters and the planes in the same shot.  I don't think it was as close as they showed.  But they wanted excitement and drama for the audience.  So they edited in the scenes with the hunters and long shots of the planes taking off.  And had the hunters say things like "we're three minutes out," or "we're five miles away", to make it seem as if they were very close.  Total BS.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, kharley said:

You never actually saw the hunters and the planes in the same shot.  I don't think it was as close as they showed.  But they wanted excitement and drama for the audience.  So they edited in the scenes with the hunters and long shots of the planes taking off.  And had the hunters say things like "we're three minutes out," or "we're five miles away", to make it seem as if they were very close.  Total BS.

Total agreement.  Too bad we didn't hear the total, unedited communication:

Team Bravo: "Central Base, we're three minutes out from the airport."

Central: "Wonderful to hear, considering they left an hour ago.  They're probably halfway to Wisconsin by now."

[Nashville]

17 hours ago, teo47 said:

The only problem with this is that it would be easy for teams to manipulate the rule - get a couple thousand dollars in cash before the game and give it to a friend, then pick the cash up from the friend after the game has started and you're all set.  I kind of like the ATM rule because while like many other aspects of the game it isn't completely realistic, it requires the teams to plan and use good strategy in order to withdraw money without being caught.

I would posit the ATM-cash-only restriction not only "isn't completely realistic", it is the #1 most UNrealistic condition of the show - with #2 being the geographic restriction. 

I mean, c'mon now - currently the deck is SO ridiculously slanted in favor of the hunters, the whole lot of them should be sacked for letting even just the two teams slip through:

1. Their quarry is contained within a 100,000 square mile area.  Sounds like a lot, until you take into account the hunters have nine roving hunt teams,  Carve up that territory pretty equally among them, and it works out to each team patrolling their own 105mi-by-105mi chunk of turf.  Which means the basic truth of the geographic restriction is (a) on average a totally clueless hunt team will STILL be about an hour's drive time away from their prey - sometimes more, sometimes less - and (b) the farthest extreme ANY runner team can POSSIBLY get from a hunt team would be roughly two hours.
2. Another check in the most-cooperative-fugitives-in-the-world column: the ATM restriction.  A fugitive team could have pulled off the most ingenious fake-out in the universe, and have the hunt teams tearing apart Disney World looking for them while they're comparing carpet swatches in Dalton, GA.  Great job - until you have to perform your mandated let-the-idiots-know-exactly-where-you-are-at-least-four-times maneuver (minimum requirement of two $100 ATM withdrawals, plus the web site ping on the Day 26 Access-Your-Exit-Strategy requirement, PLUS the $250K cashout on the Day 28 Great Escape).  EVERY TIME the runners hit one of these, they are strategically right back at Day One - worse, actually, because there's a 50% chance a hunt team is within one hour of their position - maybe even only a few minutes away.
3. The third biggest hole in the hunter reality distortion field: access to information.  In the Hunter Universe, warrants are apparently justified on simple want; they just have to think of a reason - ANY reason - why they might want a warrant for a particular wiretap or search, and Hey Presto! they got it.  The only exception we saw during the course of the show was hunt teams occasionally being required to respect private property rights.

I don't think any of these are necessarily insurmountable problems; I do think, however, Production was in a rush to get the first season of this sucker in the can FAST, and a helluva lot of rough edges slid past Quality Control.  Hopefully between now and the start of Season 2 filming someone will get locked in a room to do some thinking and come up with some more elegant approaches - because a repeat season on these same ground rules isn't worth my time.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Nashville
On #2 - Forgot the web site.

[loki567]

Something they should seriously consider is less teams. The UK version does about 10 to 12 people in six episodes, compared to the US's 18 in seven. Works so much better. More time to get into the nitty gritty of the tactics between both sides and a lot more character building. I mean consider how much time we spent with David/Emily, Lee/Hilmar and we got very little of their personalities. So more time spent with the teams, better character arcs and the audience has more of a rooting interest in whether a team will be caught or not. 

[teo47]

On 3/4/2017 at 5:04 AM, loki567 said:

Something they should seriously consider is less teams. The UK version does about 10 to 12 people in six episodes, compared to the US's 18 in seven. Works so much better. More time to get into the nitty gritty of the tactics between both sides and a lot more character building. I mean consider how much time we spent with David/Emily, Lee/Hilmar and we got very little of their personalities. So more time spent with the teams, better character arcs and the audience has more of a rooting interest in whether a team will be caught or not. 

They definitely need either less teams or more episodes in the season - for one of the winning teams (Stephen and English) we didn't see any of what went on for the middle 3 weeks of their 28 days.  Unless it was completely boring, which I doubt since they still had to be moving around, this creates quite a sense of discontinuity in the show and when you do see them, it's usually to show the hunters randomly guessing something correct out of nowhere about where they are or who might be helping them.  I think the show would be better if we did see more of the hunters doing stuff that was way off track, like interviewing friends/family in South Carolina when the team is actually in Florida.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, teo47 said:

They definitely need either less teams or more episodes in the season - for one of the winning teams (Stephen and English) we didn't see any of what went on for the middle 3 weeks of their 28 days.  Unless it was completely boring, which I doubt since they still had to be moving around, this creates quite a sense of discontinuity in the show and when you do see them, it's usually to show the hunters randomly guessing something correct out of nowhere about where they are or who might be helping them.

This was one of my biggest beefs in the final episode thread; about the only team we saw less of were the DimWigs, who got caught before the first day was out. 

• Did S&E stay put, or move around? 
• Did they stay in the general Charleston region, or did they range the containment area? 
• What were their different modes of travel?  With the exception of the loaner vehicle toward the last days, the broadcast (what little there was, anyway) inferred their travel was exclusively by foot.  But were other loaners involved?  Did they hitchhike?

Inquiring minds want to know.  :)

Edited March 5, 2017 by Nashville

[Wings]

Yes @Nashville, I agree.  It appeared they stayed in SC being shuffled around between very helpful strangers.  We know they cannot tell them they are on a reality tv show.   It cannot be easy to get someone to trust you.  

Knock, Knock.  Can we set up a tent in your backyard?  Sure! follow me.   

Oh come on! 

I would say, I cannot tell you why we are being filmed but I can answer yes or no questions.  If the first people guess then they will pass that on to willing friends, problem solved.  And it looks like they may have done this. 

I wonder if that is why we didn't see much of their journey.  Production knew they pushed the 'don't tell' rule so left that out.  Making note, of course, to correct that in season 2.  

My biggest beef is the ATM rule.  Any progress made the first week or so, is negated at the second withdrawal so why knock yourself out to get to a "good" place?  

Edited March 5, 2017 by wings707

[wilnil]

Seconding pretty much all the points in this thread. Also, I think to make this a little more realistic, they'd need to ditch many of the restrictions on what can be done in advance by the fugitives. I get that the show can only simulate a chase, but what they were simulating was "resourceful interagency task force of the kind that would be assembled to catch major federal-level felons" pitted against "felons too stupid to even pack a go-bag before they know they've been identified."

Sure, restrict the amount of money the fugitives can start out with, but then let them access that money before they have to leave and use that fund in their advance setup -- buy burner phones, hair dye, maps, whatever -- with the onus on them to figure out how to make those purchases in ways that can't be reconstructed by the hunters in five minutes once the chase begins. (Though I think it would be fair to restrict them to buying such stuff in their home areas.) And for Chrissakes, let them pack their bags ahead of time! In this season, it appeared the only advance work they were allowed was setting up plans with friends/allies and doing general research.

[piequinn35]

Set the rules, don't add or change any rule once the show started.

I just read this: https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2017/02/cbs-hunted-rules/

Quote

 

Quote

Producers “can create a rule or take away a rule at any point in time,” Emiley said.

So they had a friend bring them “15 or 16 phones,” Emiley said. 

At this point, they were obviously at an advantage, so the producers changed the rules. David said that specifically, producers “put a cap of $30 for gifts.”

 

[Nashville]

Personally, I found the show's premise (and attendant discussion) much more entertaining than its actual execution.  Anybody else feel the same?

[torqy]

46 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Personally, I found the show's premise (and attendant discussion) much more entertaining than its actual execution.  Anybody else feel the same?

Agreed. The premise was intriguing at first, but I'm not sure there is any truly believable way to do a show like this given the constraints of goofy rules for teams and the lack of any real-world judicial oversight of the hunters. A ton of editing must have been necessary to fit into 7 episodes. Watching hours of the swamp couple sweating, swatting mosquitoes and complaining would have been ratings suicide. I would have liked to see more of English and Mr. English and their approaches to strangers. And where exactly were they for all those days?

The production folks should have watched the Harrison Ford version of "The Fugitive."

[Wings]

On 3/6/2017 at 1:26 PM, piequinn35 said:

Set the rules, don't add or change any rule once the show started.

I just read this: https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2017/02/cbs-hunted-rules/

This makes it clear why we saw so little of English and her plus one.  Smart plan.  

[Lamb18]

I'd like to see a real judge on the show, maybe retired, that the hunters would have to take requests to, like search warrants, subpoenas, etc., and the judge would approve or deny based on the same criteria a judge would use in real life. I keep having a mental picture of that one guy on The Amazing Race a few years back who would keep stamping requests "NO" (in whatever language it was) over and over again when contestants brought him the wrong answer. (Can't remember if it was the Czech Republic or Russia.)

[Nashville]

An excellent summation of some of the show's highs and lows...

https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2017/02/hunted-behind-the-scenes/

[Wings]

On 3/21/2017 at 11:03 AM, Nashville said:

An excellent summation of some of the show's highs and lows...

https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2017/02/hunted-behind-the-scenes/

This is worse than our wildest guesses. Unfortunately they cannot alter it enough to even give a vague illusion of credibility, now.   You work for the fugitives means you work with the hunters, too.  Good grief. 

[Nashville]

12 hours ago, wings707 said:

This is worse than our wildest guesses. Unfortunately they cannot alter it enough to even give a vague illusion of credibility, now.   You work for the fugitives means you work with the hunters, too.  Good grief. 

Agreement ensues.  You help a fugitive, and that automatically gives the show's equivalent of LEO carte blanche to go through your property, your communications, your life?  That's not "reality".  It appears the entire concept of the hunters having to show any resemblance to real-life justification of probable cause (to justify search warrants, wiretaps, etc.) has gone straight out the window.  The hunters just have to throw names at the producer until they hit the right name(s) - and if that person has signed a release, the hunters get a blank check.  Ptui on that.  :P

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Agreement ensues.  You help a fugitive, and that automatically gives the show's equivalent of LEO carte blanche to go through your property, your communications, your life?  That's not "reality".  It appears the entire concept of the hunters having to show any resemblance to real-life justification of probable cause (to justify search warrants, wiretaps, etc.) has gone straight out the window.  The hunters just have to throw names at the producer until they hit the right name(s) - and if that person has signed a release, the hunters get a blank check.  Ptui on that.  :P

Let's say they put some stops on the hunters to even the field a bit.  We have to look at some logistics.  The fugitives travel with a sound guy and 2 cameramen, one with a shoulder camera (!), the other a Go Pro needing 2 cars of course.  Let's go off the grid and camp.  Easy, we will need a Sherpa and a lama to help with the gear and a donkey to carry the food.  Nah lets wander the street and see if we can talk someone into letting us use their house after the producer, who also travels with us,  gets the papers signed for permission.  There is just no fixing this.

Too bad, I love the idea. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by wings707

[Nashville]

Okay, here's one improvement suggestion:

At present:

• The participating show personnel consists of four primary classes: Fugitives (which may also be considered to encompass the fugitives' support network), Hunters, and Production.
• Production's participatory role is twofold: Technical (comprised of camera crews, sound crews, etc.) and Management (as in information management).
• Production Management's role is further subdivided into information collection (data accumulation and acquiring participant releases) and information dissemination (arbitration and control of the feed of collected data to Hunters).
• Each of the primary classes has its own agenda: escape for the Fugitives, capture for the Hunters, and maximum drama for Production.

This arrangement puts too much control in the hand of Production - a significant issue, considering Production is not an objective entity.  Production's dissemination of information to Hunters has major - some may say certain - potential to be biased by Production's pursuit of its own agenda.

My proposal:

• Creation of a fourth class: Justice.
• Justice will assume Production Management's current role of information dissemination.
• Production Management will continue its current role of information collection; once collected, however, all data will be turned over to Justice.
• Justice's function would be to act as an impartial arbiter of the information flow to Hunters:
  • To collect information, Hunters have to make their case to Justice for release of information (ROI) - in effect, demonstrate the equivalent of probable cause.
  • The ROI request would have to specifically identify (a) the individual being queried and (b) the EXACT nature of data sought - no more "fishing trips" for everything including the kitchen sink attached to a name.
  • Now here's a kicker: prior to the request, Hunters are given NO - repeat, NO - confirmation one way or the other whether or not the object of their query is a legitimate participant and/or the requested data exists.
  • Justice reviews the Hunters' ROI request.
    • IF the identified individual is part of the Fugitive class AND the requested data exists AND if Justice determines the threshold of probable cause has been met - then AND ONLY THEN will the ROI request be returned as Approved, and specifically requested information only be released to the Hunters.
    • If ANY ONE of these three conditions are lacking - the identified Fugitive is not identified as a viable participant (i.e. no release on file), the requested data does not exist, or Justice decides probable cause has _not_ been established - then the ROI request is returned as Denied.
    • Now here's a hook to bring things a little closer to reality - Denials are returned without explanation.  NO saying "you asked about the right guy, but your probable cause justification needs work".  NO "you need to re-word your request to ask for this data instead of that".  No feedback from Justice AT ALL on Denied ROI requests.  Let the Hunters have to figure out whether they're asking about the wrong person, or the wrong thing, or if they just did a lousy job of justifying why they should be given the info.

The current "ask the right name and the info slot machine pays out" arrangement lets the Hunters be too sloppy and lazy in their requests; make them tighten up their game and work for it.

[Wings]

Okay sounds involved.  I like the idea of a mediation team (cast from law background). 

22 minutes ago, Nashville said:

If ANY ONE of these three conditions are lacking - the identified Fugitive is not identified as a viable participant (i.e. no release on file), the requested data does not exist, or Justice decides probable cause has _not_ been established - then the ROI request is returned as Denied.

The fugitives ARE viable participants.  Are you saying fugitive to include people the hunters have discovered may be connected to the fugitive and thus help them? 

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, wings707 said:

Okay sounds involved.  I like the idea of a mediation team (cast from law background). 

The fugitives ARE viable participants.  Are you saying fugitive to include people the hunters have discovered may be connected to the fugitive and thus help them? 

Correct - remember, I initially said:

Quote

Fugitives (which may also be considered to encompass the fugitives' support network)

[Lamb18]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 7:59 AM, Lamb18 said:

I'd like to see a real judge on the show, maybe retired, that the hunters would have to take requests to, like search warrants, subpoenas, etc., and the judge would approve or deny based on the same criteria a judge would use in real life. I keep having a mental picture of that one guy on The Amazing Race a few years back who would keep stamping requests "NO" (in whatever language it was) over and over again when contestants brought him the wrong answer. (Can't remember if it was the Czech Republic or Russia.)

Hi Nashville, I agree with your post and I had a similar idea to your Justice point (which I totally agree with). The UK version already has this in place, I think, but I can't remember which link above brought me to that article.