S06.E14: Admission of Guilt

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

Harvey and Mike walk a fine line when they partner on a class action; Louis needs Rachel's help impressing a client during an annual presentation; and Donna and Benjamin refine their product.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I know this is long, but I have to post it:

http://www.nybarexam.org/eligible/eligibility.htm

LAW OFFICE STUDY/CLERKSHIP

New York is one of only a few jurisdictions that permits an applicant to qualify to take the bar examination on the basis of some law school study combined with law office study or clerkship. Section 520.4 of the Rules of the Court of Appeals sets forth the eligibility requirements for law office study. Interested applicants are urged to carefully review the requirements of Section 520.3 To qualify to take the bar examination on the basis of law office study under Section 520.4, the applicant must demonstrate:

 that applicant commenced the study of law after applicant's 18th birthday; and

the applicant successfully completed the prescribed requirements of the first year of full-time study in a first degree in law program at an ABA approved law school, whether attending full-time or part-time, earning a minimum of 28 credit hours (the threshold period);

that applicant thereafter studied law in a law office or offices located within New York State under the supervision of one or more attorneys admitted to practice law in New York State, for such a period of time as, together with the credit allowed pursuant to this section for attendance in an approved law school, shall aggregate four years.

After carefully reviewing rule, the applicant should submit a written request for an evaluation of eligibility to the Board office. In addition to making this written request, an applicant must have his or her law school or schools submit the following directly to the board:

an original and official transcript; and

a written statement from an authorized official which includes verification that the applicant was in good standing, not on academic probation and was eligible to continue in its degree program at the conclusion of the threshold period and also at the conclusion of all subsequent semesters.

Upon receipt of the request for an evaluation together with the required supporting documentation, the Board will determine whether the applicant meets the threshold criteria under Section 520.4 and issue a written determination in due course.
 
If an applicant meets the threshold criteria, the Board will then determine how much credit toward the four year requirement the applicant should receive for their law school study, and notify the applicant how many weeks of law office study must be completed before the applicant may apply for the bar examination. Next, the applicant must obtain a position as a law clerk/student in a law office, and have the attorney with whom he or she is working complete and file a Certificate of Commencement of Law Office Study with the Court of Appeals.

Please note: NO credit is given for any law office work that was engaged in PRIOR to the applicant's completion of the threshold period at law school OR the filing of the Certificate of Commencement.

The applicant must study law in the law office for a period of four years under the supervision of an attorney who is admitted to practice law in New York . (Credit toward this four year requirement is given for successfully completed semesters in an ABA approved law school.) Once the required period of law office study is completed, the applicant is eligible to apply for the New York State bar examination. When applying for the bar examination, the applicant and the attorney or attorneys responsible for the law office study both must complete affidavits.

-----------------------------------

Also, what world-class French chef accepts a call late at night to prepare a 9 course meal for 4 for the next day?  Does Rachel have his cell phone number?

Edited February 16, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Rascotes]

Was nice seeing Katrina again.  Makes me wonder when 12 Monkey's will be back.  Feel's like that show has been on hiatus for ages now.

[xtwheeler]

Yes, it is possible to swear into the bar upon law office study but as a practical matter, it virtually never happens. 

This episode in particular reminded me why I swore off legal shows after half a semester of law school. 

If I remember correctly, 12 Monkeys ended early summer, so should be back in a few months. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

7 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

Yes, it is possible to swear into the bar upon law office study but as a practical matter, it virtually never happens. 

Yes, but he would have to complete a year of law school first.  There's no getting past that barrier.

[xtwheeler]

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Yes, but he would have to complete a year of law school first.  There's no getting past that barrier.

Yes, absolutely, and the "law office study" is not just "hang out in a law office and do what a supervising lawyer tells you;" it is SUPPOSED to be "lawyer undertakes to actually educate you on the law" but I won't even pretend that this will be addressed.  Honestly, with the one year of law school thing, I expected them to just handwave that he had somehow done some such thing and been done with it.

Also, having applied for and passed two Moral Character and Fitness examinations, the fact that they're trying to imply Rachel would be somehow tainted by the fact she is involved with Mike is just so preposterous, and the notion that somehow working for her father, when Mike doesn't work at either place, would solve this non-issue is just stupid.  But every time I start to try to apply actual real legal world thought to this show I'm suddenly possessed by the urge to put myself out of my misery. I watch this show out of love for my (also lawyer) husband, and he better appreciate it.

This episode was yet another reminder of what a total douchebag Harvey is, and how much he abuses Louis.  Harvey only has eyes for Mike, and the fact Harvey didn't give a shit about harming his ACTUAL law firm's ACTUAL clients because he was so obsessed with perpetuating yet another fraud with Mike was yet another bridge too far for me.  

Oh, also, the associate who choked in court with Mike being convinced that choking in court means he can't be a good lawyer is just so ridiculous.  I've been a litigator for 20 years.  I've done civil litigation exclusively, and I've actually got quite a bit more actual courtroom experience than most civil litigators, and my courtroom skills are about .03% of the skillset that brings value to my clients.  The paperwork drudgery that the associate (whose name sadly escapes me) did overnight is about 98% of what our clients are paying us to do.  Honestly, a trained monkey can do the courtroom shenanigans; the research, analysis, and writing that make for television (and real life) drudgery are a litigator's bread and butter.  I'd hire that associate over a courtroom showboat any day.

At this point, I'm also watching to make up my Royal Wedding Bingo card.  If Gabriel and Sarah don't sit next to each other at the wedding, I shall be QUITE PUT OUT.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 minutes ago, xtwheeler said:

Yes, absolutely, and the "law office study" is not just "hang out in a law office and do what a supervising lawyer tells you;" it is SUPPOSED to be "lawyer undertakes to actually educate you on the law" but I won't even pretend that this will be addressed.

Harvey actually did say something last week about the guy on the fitness committee finding someone to mentor Mike, but it was all nonsense.  Also, as I recall, the NYS Committee on Character and Fitness considers you after you have finished law school (or in this case, law school and mentorship)n not before you have started the process.  Here are the requirements for the First Department, which covers Manhattan and the Bronx:

All applicants must file an application questionnaire, with supporting documentation. Only complete applications will be accepted for filing. A complete application consists of the application questionnaire, all required accompanying forms and supporting documentation, including two Affidavits of Good Moral Character, and Legal Employment Affidavits from every law-related position you have held, including paid or unpaid internships, summer associate positions, volunteer work in law school clinics or elsewhere. The application materials also include law school certificates for you to fill out and send to every law school you attended. The law school then fills out its portion of the form and sends it directly to the Committee. (Bolding mine.)

Also, Rachel can't be compelled to testify against Mike when this whole scheme blows up, but she can certainly testify against Harvey.

The Donna subplot is also pretty intolerable.

[xtwheeler]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Harvey actually did say something last week about the guy on the fitness committee finding someone to mentor Mike, but it was all nonsense. 

Yes, I'm not even going to pretend that anyone is going to mentor Mike, and frankly from what we've seen, none of these yokels has even a passing familiarity with the actual law.  At the end of the day, Mike does actually know the law better than any of them do, too.  He'd also have to sit for the bar, *under his own name this time.*  Or has he only sat for the LSAT for people? I consider their "facts" to be entirely fungible.

In CA if I remember correctly (I was actual eons ago) we applied to take the bar, and then submitted the moral character afterwards.  For Nevada, the application to take the bar WAS the Moral Character & Fitness Application, and it took me about 40 hours of actual work to complete it.  As in you couldn't sit for the bar if you hadn't submitted your kindergarten transcripts, a colonoscopy, and a phrenology examination first.  (Nevada REALLY wanted to keep out of state lawyers out.) I had a friend in CA who actually sat for and passed the bar who did not get all his ducks in a row in the FIVE YEARS they give you after the fact to clean up your parking tickets and whatnot, and his bar results expired.  The committee of bar examiners actually took it upon themselves to waive the five year bar when his last parking (speeding?) ticket cleared the week after his results expired and admitted him to the bar.  The languor with which he applied himself to the task of clearing his business though should have told them what kind of lawyer he would be.

I mean, I guess I'm supposed to think that the NYBar really has it out for Mike such that they've got a special eye on Rachel? Much more likely Mr. Zane and the members of his firm are big donors to the Bar and their access to justice programs, and that would be far more persuasive than anything else.  I don't really understand why Mike would care so much about actual membership in the NYBar rather than the consultant position Harvey offered him.  Other than the opportunity to have an ownership stake in the firm (I assume that is the same in NY) there isn't much downside to not having an actual license, probably.  Oh, other than Mike just can't rein himself in.

Honestly I spent more time wondering what was up with Louis' girlfriend's gums than anything else. That is what the plots on this show have reduced me to.

[CaptainCranky]

I DVR'd this show but after reading this comment forum I'm not even going to watch it. I'm done. The five main characters have become predictable, boing and not the least bit interesting even in the world of make believe TV. At least Jessica gave the show some character. This show like PSL has become a shell of its former self.

[NJRadioGuy]

11 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

I don't really understand why Mike would care so much about actual membership in the NYBar rather than the consultant position Harvey offered him.  Other than the opportunity to have an ownership stake in the firm (I assume that is the same in NY) there isn't much downside to not having an actual license, probably.

Because he wants to practice in a way that directly helps people; he's not in it for the money and I believe him when he says he doesn't want to work for or with PSL. What I'd like to see happen in the Suits-iverse, over the next season, would be Mike actually becoming a lawyer, then somehow taking over the legal clinic and practicing the kind of law he's always wanted to do. How his relationship to PSL would be maintained is the part I'm not quite sure of, although I could see Mike going up against one of Harvey's corporate clients for some nefarious acts that hurt Mike's clients–of course, with Mike coming out victorious at the end.

But the showrunners seem to find a new way to crush someone every year now, and I'm just trying to figure out whose life they're going to destroy next. Louis is obviously going to be hurt badly (because that's what these writers do with such a wonderful character), Rachel is likely going to bail and marry some prince or something <g> and I think the season-ending cliffhanger will be Mike's role in the stock manipulation suit will come back to bite him--hard--and then who knows. I would like to see things end on a positive note but I don't think it's going to happen.

[rur]

5 hours ago, CaptainCranky said:

 The five main characters have become predictable, boing and not the least bit interesting even in the world of make believe TV. At least Jessica gave the show some character. 

Over the years this show, IMO, has dug itself more and more firmly into the Impossible To Willingly Suspend Disbelief rut. I had hoped that  -- with Mike out of jail -- the plots might swing back toward reality. But the PSL folks are still drinking the kool-aid that makes them believe that he is the most special of all the special snowflakes and deserving of every possible break. The whole bunch should collapse under the weight of their own awfulness. I want Mike's legal clinic boss/old NCIS LA shrink to ream him out every episode, reminding him why he's darn lucky to have any job at all.

Edited February 17, 2017 by rur

[mwell345]

19 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The Donna subplot is also pretty intolerable.

It can't end soon enough.  Getting really tired of Donna too. 

5 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

What I'd like to see happen in the Suits-iverse, over the next season, would be Mike actually becoming a lawyer, then somehow taking over the legal clinic and practicing the kind of law he's always wanted to do. How his relationship to PSL would be maintained is the part I'm not quite sure of, although I could see Mike going up against one of Harvey's corporate clients for some nefarious acts that hurt Mike's clients–of course, with Mike coming out victorious at the end.

I'd like to see this too.  I think it would refresh the show.  To have him go back t PSL....what happens next?  He marries Rachel, ok, then what?  I think having him remain in the legal clinic would be more interesting.   I liked the legal clinic aspect of the show anyway and there are so many directions they can go in with that.

[Slovenly Muse]

While the law in this universe is clearly a twisted version of our own, borrowed from, I assume, an evil parallel dimension, or someone's butt... I gotta say, this is the first episode I've seen in ages that I genuinely LIKED! It's all nonsense, of course, but this show was never a realistic legal drama, and yes, "The Donna" is idiotic, but at least Donna has something to do besides magically solve everyone's problems all the time always.

While we still have scenes of people pointlessly yelling at each other, I feel like the quota has gone down, and many pointless tantrums are being gradually replaced this season by people actually talking reasonably about what they mean, and expressing willingness to effectively work together to achieve common goals, EVEN with people they dislike. (Staggering, isn't it?) Seeing Mike and Harvey actually talk like friends, help each other out, and pass the baton back and forth on this case... it was amazing! I didn't even care that they were doing something super illegal for sketchy reasons that had no basis in reality! I'd WATCH this show! THAT'S how deprived I've been of positive interactions between characters. It's still not, by ANY means, a "good" show, but I appreciate the efforts this season to tone down the pointless melodrama and histrionics, and have the characters behave like grownups for a change. We are slowly, so slowly, moving in the right direction, I think.

ETA: Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure I've said the same thing ("This is dumb, but it looks like it's taking a turn! This season has some good potential, and we're starting to see where it could go! I'm heartened, and I'll stick around to see what happens!")  at around this point of the last three or four seasons, at least. And they always swerve away from the good stuff and fall back on their old standards: awkward mild cursing, and adolescent hissy fits. PLEASE let this one be the exception! But really, I gotta stop getting my hopes up.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Slovenly Muse
On second thought....

[theOAfc]

22 hours ago, CaptainCranky said:

I DVR'd this show but after reading this comment forum I'm not even going to watch it. I'm done. The five main characters have become predictable, boing and not the least bit interesting even in the world of make believe TV. At least Jessica gave the show some character. This show like PSL has become a shell of its former self.

I have an issue with suits this year too. While i enjoyed ,somehow,the episode that focused on Harveys family,i find the majority of the writing for the characters recycled and too predictable. It also feels like characters i used to love ,like Donna , have become one dimensional while the script refuses to give them a meaty storyline. Lastly i found myself loving Rachel more this season while disliking Mike,the actual lead of the show(well co lead). 

I cant bring myself to watch the last two episodes. I want to,but i feel like im gonna waste 42 minutes of my life.

[xtwheeler]

17 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

Because he wants to practice in a way that directly helps people; he's not in it for the money and I believe him when he says he doesn't want to work for or with PSL. What I'd like to see happen in the Suits-iverse, over the next season, would be Mike actually becoming a lawyer, then somehow taking over the legal clinic and practicing the kind of law he's always wanted to do. How his relationship to PSL would be maintained is the part I'm not quite sure of, although I could see Mike going up against one of Harvey's corporate clients for some nefarious acts that hurt Mike's clients–of course, with Mike coming out victorious at the end.

But the showrunners seem to find a new way to crush someone every year now, and I'm just trying to figure out whose life they're going to destroy next. Louis is obviously going to be hurt badly (because that's what these writers do with such a wonderful character), Rachel is likely going to bail and marry some prince or something <g> and I think the season-ending cliffhanger will be Mike's role in the stock manipulation suit will come back to bite him--hard--and then who knows. I would like to see things end on a positive note but I don't think it's going to happen.

I don't think Mike will ever want to practice more than 3 feet away from Harvey. I think not only is Harvey the great platonic love of his life, is he in love with the power PSL gives him to practice how he wants, and the resources to do. After having virtually unlimited resources to throw at pro bono cases, Mike couldn't live on a clinic's budget. Negotiate a few billion dollar deals for PSL and he can finance all the scorched-Earth PSL pro bono litigation at Harvey's right hand he wants, no law license or pesky disciplinary rules hanging over his head. 

[Cthulhudrew]

18 hours ago, theOAfc said:

 It also feels like characters i used to love ,like Donna , have become one dimensional while the script refuses to give them a meaty storyline.

l still shake my head at the notion that the writers shoehorned in a whole failed romance storyline for Donna last season that took place entirely off-camera and only served the function of trying to generate some sympathy and momentum for Louis' storyline..

[bros402]

19 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

I don't think Mike will ever want to practice more than 3 feet away from Harvey. I think not only is Harvey the great platonic love of his life, is he in love with the power PSL gives him to practice how he wants, and the resources to do. After having virtually unlimited resources to throw at pro bono cases, Mike couldn't live on a clinic's budget. Negotiate a few billion dollar deals for PSL and he can finance all the scorched-Earth PSL pro bono litigation at Harvey's right hand he wants, no law license or pesky disciplinary rules hanging over his head. 

He will probably make a condition of him coming back to PSL be that they run a legal clinic and he is in charge of it

[xtwheeler]

1 hour ago, bros402 said:

He will probably make a condition of him coming back to PSL be that they run a legal clinic and he is in charge of it

Agreed.  Most firms have a pro bono requirement/department anyway, all of which is why the whole "Mike finds his conscience at 'legal clinic' and denies he wants to return to PSL" storyline makes no sense to me. He wants to return. He can and will run a pro bono department there. He doesn't need a license to be a consultant there. He never wants to be away from Harvey. None of it hangs together.

Now that Jessica's wardrobe is gone, I have no reason to be here.

[juno]

Suits is a tough show to like for me. I took off the whole prison season because I thought it was too stupid to watch. What I watched on this episode has become a template for this show for a few painful years for me.

Great characters that suck me into this show, Gretchen, Katrina, Rachel's Dad, Jessica.

Characters that were once great but have the potential to be great like: Donna when she isn't bragging and telling everyone how great she is can be the moral center of the show. Louis when he isn't acting like an 8 year old having a tantrum. He was great in this episode.

Mike and Harvey seem to be involved with shady, crooked characters every episode. Somehow the only way to win is their own shady crooked ways  that take these characters down and are always seen as the end justifying the means. Like Mike lying to his Associate and new boss (who he begged to hire him) in order to secure a shady deal with a shady character to illegally make Mike a lawyer. Yawn... Rinse and repeat. Ex felon failing to discuss 100 mill case with new boss. Fired, so fired and never hired in any firm in any capacity.

At some point this show was about Lawyers and the secret and the cases they battled. Then it became internal power struggles (Hartman) and now it is about the firm or Lawyers being threatened and the ways they win and take down the bad guy. Oh and make sure there is a lot of swearing and lying and illegal behavior because that sure happens in real life.

Regarding this show, jeez just report the guy to his bosses and Rachel wouldn't of had a problem. I doubt a member of the bar can't threaten and extort other lawyers because gee wouldn't that be like illegal. Mike should not have acted on the possibility of becoming a lawyer again because it wouldn't have been a part of the ex-felon's new lease on life and his new goal of doing things honestly and legally (oops ship is sailed). He could of accepted his limitations and the limitations of his associate and kept fighting and teaching and doing that job he accepted and not try to short cut everything.

I know there is a good show in there hiding. Is there hope?

[tessaray]

I was surprised not to totally hate this episode. There's still a Jessica-sized hole but Louis was okay, I liked the conversation between Rachel and Katrina (?), the legal aid lawyer has potential and I'm a pushover for lawyers (even fake ones) who take on the corrupt system to get justice and $$ for the little guy.  Mike and Harvey really do suck though.  

If they were going the "reading the law" route, would it have been too much trouble to send Mike off-screen to one of the handful of states where it's easier to pull off than NY?  (Assuming there's one that has reciprocity with NY.) It would be a lot easier to hand wave. 

[bros402]

Let/s have a Suits spinoff that takes place at Papa Zaine's firm.

[msani19]

On 2/19/2017 at 3:43 AM, xtwheeler said:

Now that Jessica's wardrobe is gone, I have no reason to be here.

She had the best clothes. The best! I could and would watch just to see what she was wearing and then figure out how to make that happen in my life for 1/100th of the cost. 

[H8TERS]

What you gon' do?