S12.E11: Surface Tension

[thewhiteowl]

Quote

When a bizarre hieroglyph found under a deceased homeless man’s armpit is the same from previous casualties a few years ago, the BAU is called in to investigate. Also, Reid decides to take his mother out of a clinical study early to bring her home with him.

[thewhiteowl]

Oops! Sorry forgot to unlock.

[Danielg342]

A ho-hum case and another example as to why Reid should have his own show.

I don't think there's really any argument at this stage- the way Matthew Gray Gubler acts, with all his nuances and the depth he brings to Spencer Reid...it's really a joy to behold.

Tonight it really worked, because for once Gubler had someone equal to the task to play off of in Jane Lynch, with their chemistry really elevating the material.

In fact, I would probably use clips of Gubler and Lynch together for educational purposes, because it shows precisely what you want as a casting director- two actors whose interactions are so organic and natural it's like they really do know each other for their whole lives.

When two actors click, you're just drawn right in, and I was drawn to Gubler and Lynch.

Of course, Gubler did well on his own, bringing out the pain and despair Diana Reid's deteoriating condition is having on poor Spencer Reid. It's said that Gubler really brings out the "human" in Spencer and it was on full display tonight, because what was happening to Diana is a textbook scenario for the kinds of problems Spencer would have.

See, Spencer's always the kind of guy who has an answer for everything, the one who knows his knowledge base eventually allows him to figure out the magic pills or words or action that allows him to solve whatever problem he's facing.

Yet with Diana, there just is no solution, no magic formula that Spencer can concoct to make her better. In the back of his mind, Spencer knows there is no way out, but he's too stubborn to believe it.

His mind conflicts, because he always knows that whatever issues he's had he solves it...but why can't he solve this one? Why is Diana's issue so impossible to solve?

On a better written show- in Spencer Reid's own show- this would be a wonderful topic to explore in depth.

Alas, it's occurring on Criminal Minds where the writing has no depth and brushes aside stories like they're nothing. I hope we'll get something good for Spencer Reid, but, given the venue, I know I'll be disappointed.

As for the case...I really couldn't get excited about it. Yeah, it was a novel topic- a killer using sinkholes as a site of personal interest- and it was great that Ophiuchus ("The Serpent Holder"), the oft-forgotten 13th sign of the Zodiac, getting some love.

Despite that, I just wasn't gripped. The acting made it feel like everyone was just going through the motions. Even though we saw the UnSub, we didn't see a lot of action- we just had a lot of description about what he was doing.

Plus, there were no twists or turns that really challenged everything we knew about the case...it was all, really, a "paint by the numbers" boring slog.

Episode Grade: C+. Gets good marks for how great the Reid story was, but loses a lot because the main case was a bore.

[Willowy]

The case was not only a bore, it was non-existent for me. Literally ALL I cared about were the Reids and their issue. I have a feeling it's going to be that way for the remainder of the arc, and I'm okay with that. Deriders of Spencer are fond of saying "It's not the REID show", but last night they were wrong. 

The fact that I have to wait weeks to see this play out (and all the amazing scenes I know are coming), is aggravating in the extreme. 

[JMO]

To dispense with the case first:  It was fine.  Actually, had it been a different episode, and Reid integrated with the team in Tampa, it would have been one of their more interesting cases, even if I wish they would stop trying to ‘out-bizarre’ one another.  For me, it suffered because I am not attached to any of the newbies, and there are now so many of them that they can’t always be paired with someone we know.  You could easily turn the channel and not realize you are watching Criminal Minds.  Rossi, JJ and Garcia were fine.  But Emily is just not Emily, ever since her return.  PB is too overtly ‘acting’ for my taste.  It’s not what I remember of her, and I find it off-putting.  I hope she finds her footing again soon.  I know she has the chops.

I am one of those annoying people who can live without a happy ending for Reid, because I see him as  the tragic hero of the show, and MGG plays that so very well.  I don’t like when he plays the tragic victim, as he sometimes falls into.  But when he’s the tragic hero, he excels.  He did so last night, especially in that struggle with Diana, and the moments after.  When Reid is permitted a little power to his voice, and is free to emote, Matthew brings it home.  And then there is his body language, which has been discussed here before, as in ‘Nelson’s Sparrow’.  In those scenes where Reid realizes the folly of what he’s trying to do, and the likely futility of it, and his uncertainty, and his sorrow…..he needed no words.  So good. 

Somewhere I read that some of this storyline was intended for Hotch and his father-in-law.  I can’t imagine it would have had anywhere near the same emotional impact.

I’m glad JJ is the one looking out for him now.  They are the remaining ‘two musketeers’ of the bullpen, and they need to be one another’s support.  Rossi is too avuncular, Prentiss a little too remote, in her new position, and Garcia too….Garcia.  But I think Reid needs a father figure in this storyline, which is making me sorely miss Hotch.  As this arc plays out, I will miss Morgan more and more (maybe I won’t have to?).  But I think Hotch is the one who truly commanded Reid’s respect, who would already have brought him in to talk about what he was doing, and had the courage to call him out on it.  If this arc ultimately brings Reid’s addiction history to the table (federal agent smuggling drugs), it will suffer from having neither Hotch nor Gideon play a role. 

[TheGreenWave]

1 hour ago, Franky said:

The case was not only a bore, it was non-existent for me. Literally ALL I cared about were the Reids and their issue.

Agree 1000%.  The hour went like this for me: main case = play games on phone; Reid family scenes: watch show.  Sink holes?  That was just terrible.

[Bookish Jen]

I can't quite comment on this episode yet. The issues regarding Spencer and Diana cut a little close to home in more ways than one. When Diana slapped Spencer, leaving a mark, I sobbed.

As for the so-called main plot with the unsub? Zzzzzz.....

[senin]

First time in many many episodes I have such a strong reaction. Emotional mainly. I was trying to write something which makes sense and I just can't, I'll have to wait a little, ... or some days maybe. 

But I can say I was really glad to be alone watching, because I gasped a few times, screamed a couple of times, covered my mouth , and even covered my eyes at one point. 

I'll come back and explain myself better, (I hope ). 

[Old Dog]

I loathe the Alvez character - lose him but maybe keep his dog! As for the other new guy, why is he there? He is a complete nonentity with the most monotone and soporific voice. I loved the heartbreaking Reid/Diana scenes but the case was just CM by numbers with a disjointed team going through the motions. I liked that Reid showed his genius in identifying the location and I was again irritated by JJ's ornately flowing eagle wings hair - either she uses a shed load of hair spray or she brings along her hairdresser on the jet!!

[Droogie]

38 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

I loathe the Alvez character - lose him but maybe keep his dog! As for the other new guy, why is he there? He is a complete nonentity with the most monotone and soporific voice. I loved the heartbreaking Reid/Diana scenes but the case was just CM by numbers with a disjointed team going through the motions. I liked that Reid showed his genius in identifying the location and I was again irritated by JJ's ornately flowing eagle wings hair - either she uses a shed load of hair spray or she brings along her hairdresser on the jet!!

Good thing she wasn't in the room with all the candles.  <whoompfh>

Alvez has never done a thing for me.  Plus I inferred a dis to Reid in the scene where Reid was talking about the first fratricide/homicide recorded in the Bible.  Not cool.

Newguy (Walker?) does nothing for me.  I might like him better than Alvez, in theory, but my gosh man!  Liven up!  

[ReidFan]

::::giggles like silly school girl over Droogie's post::::  with which I completely agree! :)

[normasm]

Well, to me, this was 2/3 of a very good episode. The Reids sections, and a few parts of the case, were very good. The problem was the case, and the Team. In a way, I’m very glad Spencer wasn’t with the Team, but totally separate, except when he was talking to them on the phone.

The Team. I mean how many times and in how many ways can we say it? There are too many of them, and 3/5 of them are new. As someone else said, there are so many team members that in various combinations, there aren’t any familiar members in a scene. 

Prentiss has been relegated to the terse Hotch role, staying at the station, saying “Wheels up in 10.” The new-new guy is a yawn. Alvez is OK (I liked the way he and Reid were riffing off one another at one point, there needs to be more of that). Rossi had a few good snappy retorts. The concern for Reid between JJ and Rossi, was understated, but good, natural, helped give outsider POV. Garcia wasn’t too Garcia. But, correct me if I’m wrong, there were zero LEOs in there, just the unbelievable coroner (“A corpse isn’t a person”). 

And the case was pretty awful. I had the feeling they meant “hieroglyphics” in the generic sense, but it didn’t hold my interest enough to puzzle it out, at least until Reid did that thing about the constellation. 

The value was in the Reids and their story, of course. We get the real reason Spencer wants Diana with him, so he can supervise her getting a primitive and apparently illegal version of some drug protocol he thinks might help. Queasy thinking that he had to go black market to get it. 

The exhausting pillar-to-post careening of Diana’s mood and level of control, her not remembering, then losing absolutely every shred of control, then waking up refreshed and lucid, then receding into an awful place where she doesn’t know her own son at all. All of this coupled with Spencer’s attempts to prompt her, comfort her, reassure her, rescue her, and ultimately, imprison her, all for her own protection. This struggle between the two of them is very familiar, to me and a lot of you. It was well-written and gut-wrenching. The acting was superb, I do love how MGG will pull things back rather than chew the rug. And JL did not go over the top too much, though it would have been so easy to overplay any one of those scenes. 

I have to wonder where they go from here, because the die has been cast for Spencer to suffer. I know he is a tragic hero, as JMO says, but I do hope he finds a way to stay up on the tightrope until he can find a way to help his mom. This is one of the few times the very last thing onscreen is a quote. "Time moves in one direction; memory in another."

Next week is a Jim Clemente episode, so I don’t expect much out of Spencer except whatever pretty the director deigns to show us. And then, “Spencer.” Gah.

[ReidFan]

oh. one more thing, (and not just about Spencer and Diana either lol)

Thinking Bruce Zimmerman has a pretty good handle on some of our characters..... Rossi sounded like Rossi of old again in this one "I'd chime in with an opinion too, if I knew what the hell you two are talking about" and the 'My favourite genius' reminded me of the quippy, sarcastic, smartassy self.

[senin]

19 minutes ago, normasm said:

 

The value was in the Reids and their story, of course. We get the real reason Spencer wants Diana with him, so he can supervise her getting a primitive and apparently illegal version of some drug protocol he thinks might help. Queasy thinking that he had to go black market to get it. 

The exhausting pillar-to-post careening of Diana’s mood and level of control, her not remembering, then losing absolutely every shred of control, then waking up refreshed and lucid, then receding into an awful place where she doesn’t know her own son at all. All of this coupled with Spencer’s attempts to prompt her, comfort her, reassure her, rescue her, and ultimately, imprison her, all for her own protection. This struggle between the two of them is very familiar, to me and a lot of you. It was well-written and gut-wrenching. The acting was superb, I do love how MGG will pull things back rather than chew the rug. And JL did not go over the top too much, though it would have been so easy to overplay any one of those scenes. 

 

I really wish I didn't know how it feels !! 

[ForeverAlone]

I tend to like the way Bruce writes the main characters, especially Reid. But he really is hit or miss on the case aspects. I don't mind weird cases, but they really need to be grounded in some sort of logic, and this one simply wasn't. Plus it was a blatant disregard for LEOs to conduct any sort of investigation before calling in the Feds. Just everything about the way the case was written just felt so off to me. 

[Calamity Jane]

Couldn't agree more about too many new people I don't give a hoot about.  Also, it seems clear to me that the only stories they really have left to tell are about the original characters, and the COTW plots are worn bare.  Are we expected to watch another season of this?  I think I'm out.  I was so excited for Emily coming back, so I gave CM another try this year, but she just isn't the same, and yeah, too many new people!  That I don't give a hoot about!

[ReidFan]

I wish they'd just utilise the core group: Reid, Rossi, Garcia, Prentiss and JJ..bring in one of the other three, on a rotating basis, as needed. And bring Roxy back!

[MMC]

58 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I wish they'd just utilise the core group: Reid, Rossi, Garcia, Prentiss and JJ..bring in one of the other three, on a rotating basis, as needed. And bring Roxy back!

I must say that I really really like this idea of yours. But I would be inclined to make a bit of an adjustment to it. I would still get rid of Damon Gupton and maybe convince Shemar Moore to come back part time so he could be part of that rotating cast.

[smoker]

15 hours ago, JMO said:

Somewhere I read that some of this storyline was intended for Hotch and his father-in-law.  I can’t imagine it would have had anywhere near the same emotional impact.

 

All of us have our preferences. I'm happy Reid's plot was satisfactory for most of you.

However, I remember TG and Ed Asner top-class performance and it makes me feel really sad because I know it won't happen again.

Emotional impact can be a matter of taste sometimes. Just like episode 12x02, some people were sorry for JJ, I wasn't. 
 

Edited February 3, 2017 by smoker

[Bookish Jen]

5 hours ago, senin said:

I really wish I didn't know how it feels !! 

This episode really cut close to the bone and I'd give my eye teeth for it not to. And it breaks my heart that others here feel the same way.

[hazel0711]

Anyone knows what's the song title at the end scene?

[smoker]

Did you try with Shazam?

[Willowy]

17 minutes ago, hazel0711 said:

Anyone knows what's the song title at the end scene?

It's "Amanda's Song" by Jason Koiter. He works in post-production on CM, and has a music career on the side. He has a website if you're interested, and a fb page. I'd link you but my phone won't give me the url.

[smoker]

Here

http://www.tunefind.com/show/criminal-minds/season-12/40114

Just in case you need it other day ;D

[Kara101]

I thought it was a decent episode, mainly due to the Reid story. I found it hard to pay attention to the actual case and not just look forward to the Reid story parts. I thought it was interesting to see Reid in domestic life getting angry/frustrated. It is a side of him we haven't seen before.

I am also struck by how in the wrong Reid is. I know he only has good intentions, but illegally giving his mom illicit/illegal/experimental drugs agaisnt her consent is objectively wrong. He is taking advantage of his guardianship position over her.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I am also struck by how in the wrong Reid is. I know he only has good intentions, but illegally giving his mom illicit/illegal/experimental drugs agaisnt her consent is objectively wrong. He is taking advantage of his guardianship position over her.

In fairness, we don't know if Diana isn't in on the illicit drug. We know Reid hid that info from the prospective caregiver, and, yes, Diana flushed the drug down the toilet, but Diana was aware of where it was hidden, and her flushing the drug down could have just been an episode.

[normasm]

24 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

In fairness, we don't know if Diana isn't in on the illicit drug. We know Reid hid that info from the prospective caregiver, and, yes, Diana flushed the drug down the toilet, but Diana was aware of where it was hidden, and her flushing the drug down could have just been an episode.

No. Spencer said, "Do you have any idea what I went through to get this?"  - which he wouldn't have said if she was "in on it." Plus, he would totally protect her from any knowledge of something illegal. But, in his defense, I have to say, he is desperate and wants her to get the care he deduces (with his genius, and his ability to read through the drug protocols being experimented with) she would need to fight the dementia aspect. He is in the wrong, but for all the right reasons, and it is probably what I would do in the situation, were I that smart, and that knowledgable as to how to do it.

For my mother? Especially if she was the only person in the universe who loved me unconditionally (when in her right mind)? Oh, you bet I would.

Edited February 3, 2017 by normasm

[Willowy]

Where I think Reid is wrong isn't in the drug protocol aspect, but in making the choice to bring her home to attempt her care himself. I realize since he's using unapproved or illegal meds that he can't have her in a hospital, but I would think a place like Bennington where they know and trust him would be an easy thing to slip her the meds and still get her the controlled care she needs. Unless he's afraid she'd spill the beans, because that would be no bueno.

When my grandad was in the last stages of pancreatic cancer, he stopped eating altogether, so we slipped him marijuana brownies once in a while. His appetite went through the roof, he was even eating steak again, and we had him for 6 more months than we would have if we'd done nothing, so I sympathize with Reid's experimental (even if it's illegal) treatment.

[Droogie]

18 minutes ago, normasm said:

No. Spencer said, "Do you have any idea what I went through to get this?"  - which he wouldn't have said if she was "in on it." Plus, he would totally protect her from any knowledge of something illegal. But, in his defense, I have to say, he is desperate and wants her to get the care he deduces (with his genius, and his ability to read through the drug protocols being experimented with) she would need to fight the dementia aspect. He is in the wrong, but for all the right reasons, and it is probably what I would do in the situation, were I that smart, and that knowledgable as to how to do it.

For my mother? Especially if she was the only person in the universe who loved me unconditionally (when in her right mind)? Oh, you bet I would.

Yes.  The vibe I got the whole time was frantic. Spencer is desperate to protect his most precious thing.  

Tightrope.

[Kara101]

I am completely sympathetic towards him and if I had the same ability as him and his resources I would probably be tempted to do the same thing.  But he has no idea what the effects of this drug are. They could cause her incredible pain that she would otherwise not have had, or worsen her condition and make her last days more miserable than if she hadn't took the medicine. I understand that she had no hope otherwise and death and memory loss were the eventual inevitable, so Spencer felt like he had no other choice. I think his great intentions are just severely misguided.

[secnarf]

23 minutes ago, normasm said:

No. Spencer said, "Do you have any idea what I went through to get this?"  - which he wouldn't have said if she was "in on it." Plus, he would totally protect her from any knowledge of something illegal. But, in his defense, I have to say, he is desperate and wants her to get the care he deduces (with his genius, and his ability to read through the drug protocols being experimented with) she would need to fight the dementia aspect. He is in the wrong, but for all the right reasons, and it is probably what I would do in the situation, were I that smart, and that knowledgable as to how to do it.

For my mother? Especially if she was the only person in the universe who loved me unconditionally (when in her right mind)? Oh, you bet I would.

I strongly disagree that he actually knows what he is doing. Being a genius doesn't give you knowledge, or the ability to solve all problems. He has not had any education (that we know about) in any sort of biological or pharmaceutical sciences. I know they have Reid know whatever is convenient to the story, but he can't have all of the answers. For him to think that he as the answer when a world full of experts in the field who spend their entire lives trying to find treatments for dementia do not is unrealistic and IMO very conceited (if it turns out this is actually what he is thinking).

There is also the question of whether or not he is preventing her from getting appropriate care. It seems the story now is that he took her out of the clinical trial? I thought she was kicked out due to 'budget cuts' and am very confused on this point, so maybe it's a non-issue, though. Can anyone clarify this?

Reid was giving her some sketchy brown liquid that he went through a lot of trouble to get, which means he didn't make it himself. Even if you assume he is somehow smarter than every other dementia researcher in the world, he has no idea what is actually in those vials. Think of all the people who use street drugs not knowing they are laced with fentanyl or carfentanil. If his mother has a bad reaction, it's unlikely to be identified and treated appropriately/in a timely manner.

Frankly, the only way I would be even close to okay with this storyline is if this is a drug from an actual clinical trial that for whatever reason his mother is not able to be enrolled in. However, drugs in clinical trials do not usually come in the form of sketchy brown liquid.

His heart may be in the right place, but I have a hard time believing he is helping. I also don't believe he has an understanding of the risks to his mother. And, if TPTB have Spencer Reid find a treatment for dementia, I am gone.

@Franky I am sorry you live in a place where medical marijuana is illegal. I have a hard time considering that to be an adequate comparison, though, because marijuana is used as a medicine in many places (for many years), and its appetite-stimulating effects are well-known (and have been studied for decades), and (I assume) nobody was under the impression that the marijuana would cure something that is currently incurable. There are also risks - nowadays you really have no idea what marijuana off the street is composed of or contaminated with - but I know many people who choose to go this route anyways rather than through a legitimate medical marijuana supplier for cost reasons. We just make sure they are aware of the risks, and then they can do whatever they choose (and this is usually less of a concern for the patients with a terminal illness). As I said earlier, I really don't think Reid understands the "benefit" (or lack thereof) or appreciates the risks.

[Danielg342]

35 minutes ago, normasm said:

No. Spencer said, "Do you have any idea what I went through to get this?"  - which he wouldn't have said if she was "in on it."

Not necessarily. All that means is that Diana just doesn't know the lengths Reid had to go in order to obtain the drug, which is reasonable considering that Diana likely wasn't there when Reid was obtaining the drug.

Now, Reid could be lying to Diana that the drug is legal (as lots of legal items can be impossible to obtain), but not even that is a guarantee.

[Droogie]

6 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I strongly disagree that he actually knows what he is doing. Being a genius doesn't give you knowledge, or the ability to solve all problems. He has not had any education (that we know about) in any sort of biological or pharmaceutical sciences. I know they have Reid know whatever is convenient to the story, but he can't have all of the answers. For him to think that he as the answer when a world full of experts in the field who spend their entire lives trying to find treatments for dementia do not is unrealistic and IMO very conceited (if it turns out this is actually what he is thinking).

There is also the question of whether or not he is preventing her from getting appropriate care. It seems the story now is that he took her out of the clinical trial? I thought she was kicked out due to 'budget cuts' and am very confused on this point, so maybe it's a non-issue, though. Can anyone clarify this?

Reid was giving her some sketchy brown liquid that he went through a lot of trouble to get, which means he didn't make it himself. Even if you assume he is somehow smarter than every other dementia researcher in the world, he has no idea what is actually in those vials. Think of all the people who use street drugs not knowing they are laced with fentanyl or carfentanil. If his mother has a bad reaction, it's unlikely to be identified and treated appropriately/in a timely manner.

Frankly, the only way I would be even close to okay with this storyline is if this is a drug from an actual clinical trial that for whatever reason his mother is not able to be enrolled in. However, drugs in clinical trials do not usually come in the form of sketchy brown liquid.

His heart may be in the right place, but I have a hard time believing he is helping. I also don't believe he has an understanding of the risks to his mother. And, if TPTB have Spencer Reid find a treatment for dementia, I am gone.

@Franky I am sorry you live in a place where medical marijuana is illegal. I have a hard time considering that to be an adequate comparison, though, because marijuana is used as a medicine in many places (for many years), and its appetite-stimulating effects are well-known (and have been studied for decades), and (I assume) nobody was under the impression that the marijuana would cure something that is currently incurable. There are also risks - nowadays you really have no idea what marijuana off the street is composed of or contaminated with - but I know many people who choose to go this route anyways rather than through a legitimate medical marijuana supplier for cost reasons. We just make sure they are aware of the risks, and then they can do whatever they choose (and this is usually less of a concern for the patients with a terminal illness). As I said earlier, I really don't think Reid understands the "benefit" (or lack thereof) or appreciates the risks.

I agree that being a genius doesn't give you omnipotence, but if canon means anything (and does it, really?  The writers don't seem to think so.), Reid isn't just any genius.  He has an IQ higher than Einstein.  So I do think he has a singular ability to understand and deduce what many do not.  I doubt he will cure dementia any more than he could cure schizophrenia, but I do not doubt that he has read, literally, every single study and journal article on the two subjects, remembering every word.  

Additionally, I doubt he would be giving is mother something for which he did not know every ingredient, along with side effects, possibly believing that the benefits outweigh the risks, such as they may be.

That's not saying the entire enterprise is not completely foolhardy.  It is.  And deep down, I believe Spencer knows this.  Which makes it even sadder.

[ReidFan]

Obviously he has only the best of intentions and truly only wants to help his mother. Whether they're illegal or not, whether he's taken out loans to pay for them or come by them dishonestly somehow or whatever..... I don't really care as long as when all is said and done, he is cleared of wrongdoing and retains the status of being a noble, good guy profiler. If they permanently sully the character, I'll make #NHNW  look like kids in a sandbox.

[secnarf]

14 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I agree that being a genius doesn't give you omnipotence, but if canon means anything (and does it, really?  The writers don't seem to think so.), Reid isn't just any genius.  He has an IQ higher than Einstein.  So I do think he has a singular ability to understand and deduce what many do not.  I doubt he will cure dementia any more than he could cure schizophrenia, but I do not doubt that he has read, literally, every single study and journal article on the two subjects, remembering every word.  

Additionally, I doubt he would be giving is mother something for which he did not know every ingredient, along with side effects, possibly believing that the benefits outweigh the risks, such as they may be.

That's not saying the entire enterprise is not completely foolhardy.  It is.  And deep down, I believe Spencer knows this.  Which makes it even sadder.

He can have an IQ of 300 for all I care - that is not sufficient to make anybody qualified to treat (or find a treatment for) anything (IQ does not equal knowledge). Neither is reading every study you can find (even if you believe he paid a lot of money for access, since most of them are behind hefty paywalls anyways).

There is no way he can possibly know the ingredients if he didn't make it himself - even many marketed natural health products don't always contain what they claim to have on the label (my favourite example is something claiming to contain St John's Wort - for depression - was analyzed by a third party lab and actually contained senna - a laxative). We've seen this issue in the past with baby formula, too - containing toxins that showed up as protein on the older tests that used to be used. And if this brown liquid has not been tested on people, he cannot know the side effects. If it has been tested on people and works, it would be investigated in a larger clinical trial. Nobody would abandon such a promising compound. What's more, to have a good idea of the side effects, it needs to be tested on at least hundreds of people, if not more. This is why I said the only outcome I could possibly accept is that this drug is actually part of a clinical trial that Diana is for some reason unable to partake in.

I could believe that Spencer thinks the benefits outweigh the risks. I cannot believe that that is actually the case (this, for me, would epitomize jumping the shark). Part of that is because I'm willing to bet the data needed to make that assessment doesn't even exist. When given all of the information on all of the benefits and risks and the likelihood of each, then Spencer (like the vast majority of people) can make that informed choice.

Edited February 4, 2017 by secnarf

[Droogie]

I am very well aware of the need for/existence of clinical trials.  The whole show plays fast and loose with the possible, always has.  And yes, IQ points do not equal knowledge, but they equal intelligence, and Spencer has a singular ability to see patterns and make connections that most people on earth do not.  

All that being said, we don't know any more about this mysterious brown elixir than we were shown in the episode.  It is entirely possible that it has been tested on multiple subjects but for myriad reasons is not available in the US.  We don't know from whom he received the potion or what he actually knows about it.  We will all have to wait and see.  

What we do know is that Spencer Reid is a man with a tragic backstory who has reached that point (we all have one) where he will do anything for something /someone, regardless of whether it makes sense.

[autumnmountains]

34 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I am very well aware of the need for/existence of clinical trials.  The whole show plays fast and loose with the possible, always has.  And yes, IQ points do not equal knowledge, but they equal intelligence, and Spencer has a singular ability to see patterns and make connections that most people on earth do not.  

All that being said, we don't know any more about this mysterious brown elixir than we were shown in the episode.  It is entirely possible that it has been tested on multiple subjects but for myriad reasons is not available in the US.  We don't know from whom he received the potion or what he actually knows about it.  We will all have to wait and see.  

What we do know is that Spencer Reid is a man with a tragic backstory who has reached that point (we all have one) where he will do anything for something /someone, regardless of whether it makes sense.

^exactly. I agree completely with one of my favorite nurses ever, Nurse Droogie :)  I also remember him saying "this helped you in Houston (can't recall if he said "at the center" or some such)" So, it's something that she's been on and presumably at the center itself.

Edited February 4, 2017 by autumnmountains

[ReidFan]

9 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I am very well aware of the need for/existence of clinical trials.  The whole show plays fast and loose with the possible, always has.  And yes, IQ points do not equal knowledge, but they equal intelligence, and Spencer has a singular ability to see patterns and make connections that most people on earth do not.  

All that being said, we don't know any more about this mysterious brown elixir than we were shown in the episode.  It is entirely possible that it has been tested on multiple subjects but for myriad reasons is not available in the US.  We don't know from whom he received the potion or what he actually knows about it.  We will all have to wait and see.  

What we do know is that Spencer Reid is a man with a tragic backstory who has reached that point (we all have one) where he will do anything for something /someone, regardless of whether it makes sense.

 

Absolutely agree, Droogie.

to be honest, I got the impression that the medication (three vials he had, right?) were from the clinical trial he took mom out of. (didn't he say in a previous episode that the trial wasn't helping her, that he thought she was getting the placebo?) Maybe he stole them from the place in Houston she was at. Or someone there gave them to him after he had a conversation with them. Spencer can be very persuasive. I'm sure we'll find out eventually. Like I said though, as long as he's still a good guy.

[normasm]

1 hour ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

But he has no idea what the effects of this drug are. They could cause her incredible pain that she would otherwise not have had, or worsen her condition and make her last days more miserable than if she hadn't took the medicine.

He, who reads every scholarly paper, treatise and dissertation, wouldn't know what the industry of medicine would be posting? He's probably way ahead of all of them. And it's just because Reid is not a real person that the show probably haven't had Reid go off into medical research to find treatment for schizophrenia, first most, and dementia, second. 

Remember that research about drugs and affects come from all over the world, and Spencer would absorb all of it. He can connect dots among all the trials and all the failures. He has more than an idea.

[ForeverAlone]

Considering that many of us think that this shady drug (whatever it is and wherever he got it) is the cause of his upcoming misadventure in Mexico and likely imprisonment, I think it is safe to say that whatever Reid is doing, is likely illegal and he is doing some sort of offbook treatment, possibly without his mother's knowledge or consent. I do think this whole story is only going to get worse 

[Kara101]

52 minutes ago, normasm said:

He, who reads every scholarly paper, treatise and dissertation, wouldn't know what the industry of medicine would be posting? He's probably way ahead of all of them. And it's just because Reid is not a real person that the show probably haven't had Reid go off into medical research to find treatment for schizophrenia, first most, and dementia, second. 

Remember that research about drugs and affects come from all over the world, and Spencer would absorb all of it. He can connect dots among all the trials and all the failures. He has more than an idea.

I'm sure that Reid has read eveything he could. But many people have been researching this for many years, and a cure in a shady, dark liquid has not yet been found(even in CM world, except the one clincal trial). No written literature would hold the key for a cure, or somebody else would have found it already. I hope this is a drug from an experimental trial that she got kicked out of/ didn't get into. I think that would make more sense, that he is just conducting  "his own" sort of clinical trial from a drug that the medical community thinks shows promise. But, and this is compeltely a matter of opinion, he looked desperate. I just got the impression that he is doing something very shady, and is desperate enough to use something off the charts. Especially if there is no conventional solution, which he admitted himself. Usually I think he wouldn't give somebody medication without knowing absolutley everything about it, but it appeared to me as if he was completely losing his head. You could be completely right that he is very knowledgable about what he is doing and I hope you are. To my sadness, I just got a different impression.

Assuming that this is without her consent (or even with it) could this technically be considered elder abuse in the eye of the law? I am not well-versed with the law.

I think I am a little too invested in this character!

Edited February 4, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[normasm]

Oh, and I'm totally speculating on a fave character, too, Haley! I'm just saying that he can read the specs of trials in the medical literature, put two and two together (he's a PhD in Chemistry), and try out the combination they were postulating might work. I've been in chemo and had a friend go through chemotherapy trial protocols, and they list the drugs and chemicals in the combinations, just not the percentage, etc. I figure that I know which drug helped kill my friend (who was stage 4, but hopeful to find a good QOL), so someone who can profile something as slippery as human behavior might be able to discern what drugs are being used, and why, if not how. Just saying that this admittedly fictional character might could put the pieces together of a drug trial, and have some concoction made that replicates it. That would be illegal, yes. But Diana has been adjudicated non-competent for over 15 years, so she doesn't really have consent to give anymore.

[JMO]

2 hours ago, secnarf said:

 

There is also the question of whether or not he is preventing her from getting appropriate care. It seems the story now is that he took her out of the clinical trial? I thought she was kicked out due to 'budget cuts' and am very confused on this point, so maybe it's a non-issue, though. Can anyone clarify this?

 

I think she was left out of a prior trial because of budget cuts, and then he moved her to Houston for enrollment in a second trial.  When she didn't seem to be getting better, he concluded she was probably in the placebo arm, and took matters into his own hands.  Exactly how he did that, or what he did, is entirely unclear to me.  When he was reminding Diana that the medicine had worked in Houston, I wondered if that was a continuity mistake. Unless, as someone posited, he got hold of the drug down there and started her on it before they returned to DC.  They definitely wouldn't have started her on the drug and then switched her to placebo.

There's a lot about the storyline that doesn't make sense, but that's par for the course, especially for anything medical.  For all we know, Reid got the drug the same place the Uncanny Valley unsub got the stuff that paralyzes you but somehow lets you breathe.  Regardless, I'm willing to go with it, because the heart of the story is about the lengths you will go for someone you love, and the agony of not being able to help them---and Matthew and Jane are playing it beautifully.

[ReidFan]

3 minutes ago, JMO said:

There's a lot about the storyline that doesn't make sense, but that's par for the course, especially for anything medical.  For all we know, Reid got the drug the same place the Uncanny Valley unsub got the stuff that paralyzes you but somehow lets you breathe.  Regardless, I'm willing to go with it, because the heart of the story is about the lengths you will go for someone you love, and the agony of not being able to help them---and Matthew and Jane are playing it beautifully.

this

(and LOL for the bolded part, that explains a lot!)

Most vehemently.

:)

[Mom x 3]

1 hour ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

Assuming that this is without her consent (or even with it) could this technically be considered elder abuse in the eye of the law? I am not well-versed with the law.

normasm is correct in that Diana would no longer have competency to give consent if Reid is her guardian.  He would be able to approve or refuse certain medications for her, but involving her in possible illegal activity would constitute an abuse of power.  

[CrimeFan12]

Here's my little two cents.  Reid read about a developmental drug in Mexico that shows promise, but it is not approved in the States.  Desperate and thinking it will help, he hops over the border to get some ( He has been in Houston so it's easy to do).  That's why he's upset when Diana dumps it because it was all he had.  That's why I'm thinking at the end of next week's episode he goes back to get more and gets caught trying to bring it across the border and that is why Emily and the team in Spencer have to go get him out of trouble.  

[Mom x 3]

Oof.  I hope not.  We have a huge meth problem where I live and have had several patients die due to tainted shipments.  You just don't know what you are getting.  

Great theory though.

[secnarf]

31 minutes ago, CrimeFan12 said:

Here's my little two cents.  Reid read about a developmental drug in Mexico that shows promise, but it is not approved in the States.  Desperate and thinking it will help, he hops over the border to get some ( He has been in Houston so it's easy to do).  That's why he's upset when Diana dumps it because it was all he had.  That's why I'm thinking at the end of next week's episode he goes back to get more and gets caught trying to bring it across the border and that is why Emily and the team in Spencer have to go get him out of trouble.  

I agree that given what we know, this seems to be the most likely direction they are heading in.

I fail to see how this is a 'fun' storyline for Reid. It gives MGG a nice chance to showcase some acting, but IMO it's not doing anything for Reid the character. I suppose it is still early on and we can only speculate, but I really don't like where this seems to be heading. It's just not plausible.

[CrimeFan12]

13 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I fail to see how this is a 'fun' storyline for Reid. It gives MGG a nice chance to showcase some acting, but IMO it's not doing anything for Reid the character. I suppose it is still early on and we can only speculate, but I really don't like where this seems to be heading. It's just not plausible.

I think the character growth in Reid will be when he is sent undercover to a prison to get information from the Lost actor's character.  He has to do everything on his own in that and not rely on the team to help.  That will give him a big boost of confidence.  

[ReidFan]

couple more thoughts:

I thought Reid was technophobic? He was in on a 'conference call' for the case, and appeared on the computer monitor so obviously he has some kind of Internet at home. Yes? NO?

For someone who's such a neat freak, and 'everything in its place' (remember how he moved a paperweight a fraction of a centimeter when Morgan put it down in the 'wrong' place?) his home was in such disarray. Part of that could be attributed to Diana, I suppose, but there was literally crap *everywhere*: Books, magazines on every flat surface in the place, just way more 'cluttered' than I would have expected from him.

Maybe the 'fun' part of this story, as Erica put it, was for Jane and Matthew...they'd have 'fun' rassling on the floor, she got to slap him etc. Maybe that's what she meant by 'fun'?