Beware The Slenderman

[Tara Ariano]

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This documentary examines a 2014 incident in which two 12-year-old girls stabbed a friend on the orders of a fictional character called the "Slenderman."

Premieres Monday, January 23, at 10 PM ET.

[Primetimer]

Your editors discuss HBO's latest true crime documentary.

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[annewithaneee]

I really enjoyed this, and it honestly freaked me out a little bit even though I was previously aware of Slenderman as A Thing and hadn't really found it very creepy.

I know this is a cliche, but thank the gods YouTube and 4chan and whatnot weren't around when I was twelve. I was their age in the late 90s, and as a bored and fairly weird/dark kid there were internet corners I was venturing in without a single clue, but not at these levels because they simply weren't available. Watching Anissa especially was a real "there but for the grace of God go I" moment and it hurt to watch.

Something that was lost for me was the Bella in all this. Granted I've only seen this once, and I was distracted (by the internet, because irony!) and may have missed it, but we barely heard or saw anything of her. The brief video archive footage confused me. Did her parents release it to the filmmakers? Were they approached to participate in the doc but refused? I wanted to know more about their relationship with this girl, who Morgan's father said his daughter loved but we never really got a sense of if Morgan had friends other than Anissa (we knew, more or less, that Anissa didn't), and how that dynamic worked. It'd also be interesting to know how the community reacted to the families of the girls in the wake of all this, if they felt stigmatized or shut out, if they reached out to Bella's family, that sort of thing. I understand not intruding on the victim or her family, but I also didn't want Bella to be forgotten so much.

[GaT]

I didn't think this was that great. I finally had to FF through the useless skype interviews, & I have no idea why we had to see what kind of YouTube videos Anissa watched. This could have been condensed into an hour.

I don't understand why the parents of the girls wanted to be part of this, how does that help them? Interesting that nobody from the victim's side was involved.

The police can just decide to interview 12 years old kids without a parent or guardian present? I thought it was the law that they couldn't.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, GaT said:

The police can just decide to interview 12 years old kids without a parent or guardian present? I thought it was the law that they couldn't.

They sure can and it's fucking appalling. It's possible that the law varies by state, but I believe that more often than not, children don't have to have parents or legal counsel with them when they're interrogated. And what kid is going to know they have a right to do either?! Holy shit. 

I didn't think the doc was great either -- or even very good. I think it could have benefited from some patience on the filmmaker's part until their trials were over. I also think it could have been a better indictment of trying these clearly very immature and very troubled girls in the adult court system where they're going to be locked away for the rest of their lives. As a society we have to do better than that. 

Also annoying when Morgan asked the detective if she was going to get locked up and have the key thrown away and he answered, "No." Nice job lying to a 12-year old. 

7 hours ago, annewithaneee said:

I understand not intruding on the victim or her family, but I also didn't want Bella to be forgotten so much.

I read an article yesterday that said Bella's family was approached by the filmmakers to appear in the doc; they declined. 

[Kostgard]

I didn't completely enjoy the "internet-ness" of the doc, but overall it was interesting, and mostly sad. The girls were probably into what a lot of kids their age are into, but mix in isolation, loneliness, and mental illness and something terrible happened. I also picked up on the shades of "Heavenly Creatures" with the two girls. I hope that the girls' families at least get a little sympathy from their neighbors out of it. They are already in hell, they don't need people calling them and harassing them. 

I was vaguely aware that Slenderman was A Thing too but I never dove down that particular rabbit hole because the one time I took a peek I didn't see a whole lot that impressed me (though to be fair I'm usually not scared by such things). However, some of the photoshop jobs featured here were impressive and the one video of Slenderman climbing up the side of the building creeped me the hell out.

[cpansy]

I'm three-quarters of the way through it, and found it terrifying for multiple reasons. At first I kept thinking that as a 12-year-old girl, I'd never believe something like this, but looking at how credible some of the YouTube videos are, and remembering how much children WANT to believe and want to be part of something, now I'm not so sure. At this point in the docu, all the parents seem involved and aware of what their children were doing, so how do you ensure that your child doesn't tip over too far into the fantasy?

[Deanie87]

I didn't think this was that great. I finally had to FF through the useless skype interviews, & I have no idea why we had to see what kind of YouTube videos Anissa watched. This could have been condensed into an hour.

I don't understand why the parents of the girls wanted to be part of this, how does that help them? Interesting that nobody from the victim's side was involved.

The police can just decide to interview 12 years old kids without a parent or guardian present? I thought it was the law that they couldn't.

I totally agree. The subject matter was really interesting, but its like the director watched a bit too much of True Detective. Seriously, the shots of billowing trees and rural farmland when on for-ever.

I usually try not to be judgemental about the parents in this sort of situation because who knows how someone copes with this kind of thing or what really goes in someone else's family. But...most of the parents seemed kind of...off. Morgan's father was really the only one who seemed to show genuine emotion about all that had happened and I felt so horrible for him when he was crying and kind of blaming himself. I also appreciated Morgan's mother's honesty about Morgan's lack of empathy, but I have to admit that I was also surprised that she was so honest. I thought that she seemed kind of unemotional to me and to be completely honest, I would have guessed that Morgan got her lack of empathy from her mother, who seemed to be trying to cry but not really succeeding. Anissa's parents gave off a weird vibe as well. He talked and she just sat there mutely. I wasn't surprised when she said that she initiated the divorce. Again, I'm probably not being fair, I have no idea how I would come across or behave if I were in their shoes, but it was just another odd thing about this documentary.

As far as the verdict, I just don't know. What they did was horrible and neither seemed to truly show remorse, but then again, did they really understand what they did and why they did it? I just don't know that trying 12 year olds as adults is either humane or true justice.

[NumberCruncher]

I liked this documentary okay but I, too, wish there was more substance to it.  That said, I do think the lack of involvement by Bella's family really hindered the director's ability to make a well-rounded product.  I can't really hold that against either party--I imagine the family has been through hell and back and doesn't want to re-live the situation and yet the director managed to succeed in telling a compelling story with the limited materials she had at her disposal.

I also agree with the comments regarding the strangeness of the girls' parents.  I would not be the least bit surprised if a lot of their character traits were picked up on by their daughters in addition to the obvious mental illness that Morgan inherited.  I'm not saying the parents are to blame in the least because I think most parents try to do their best by their kids but given the fact that we take after our parents in so many ways, the combination of whatever shortcomings they may have picked up on, the mental illness issues involved, and the immature, highly impressionable age of the girls all served to create a perfect storm which is why...

12 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

As far as the verdict, I just don't know. What they did was horrible and neither seemed to truly show remorse, but then again, did they really understand what they did and why they did it? I just don't know that trying 12 year olds as adults is either humane or true justice.

^^^This.  I'm happy to hear that Morgan is getting help for her schizophrenia and hopefully Anissa is getting counseling for her issues as well but even if they do manage to reign in their mental state in order to stand trial I do still question the wisdom in treating them as adults.  I teach a class composed mainly of 12 year-olds and I can attest that they are far from having a complete understanding of actions and consequences.  They just don't have the necessary life experience.  That said, I didn't get the impression in this case that the girls thought murder was okay but they clearly didn't think about the consequences of their actions beyond the act itself.  This was especially highlighted when one of the girls curiously asks the police investigator if she's going to jail as if she really didn't know the answer.  The act itself appeared to come from a place of genuine fear--even if that fear was a figment of their own imagination.  

I believe that the girls do need to answer for their actions but I'm not sure that locking them away for the next 65 years is going to accomplish much other than to assure that they have literally no chance at life.  Also, from a public safety perspective does anyone really look at these girls and fear for their lives?  If they're mentally ill then by all means get them help rather than locking them away never to be seen again for committing an act while being out of their right minds at a very immature age.

Edited January 26, 2017 by NumberCruncher

[ChristmasJones]

Like most here, I was underwhelmed with this documentary. I wish they had waited until after the legal proceedings are over. I saw a program at some point that featured an entire hour interview with the parents of the victim. It was on one of the major networks- like 20/20 or something like that. I can understand why they would choose not to be involved in a documentary.

A key detail for me is that this girl came extremely close to actually being murdered.  They purposely left her there to die.

I think the crime somehow can seem a bit less intense given that she survived, but I wonder how these two would be perceived if she had actually died.

It does make one think of the case in New Zealand, although the motivation is slightly different, the two girls fed off each other and alone probably would not have committed such a crime. 

It makes me think of my BFF in middle school. We were joined at the hip and completely inseparable. That was 30 years ago and I can still remember her phone number because I called it every day for two years straight.  She was a trouble maker and I was her side-kick. We did a lot of bad things together. We would not have killed someone, for that I am certain, but I hate to think what we could have gotten up to if we had the type of internet access these two did.

[Calamity Jane]

Oh, my word, this gutted me.  So many thoughts and feelings are swirling in my head!  I feel deeply for the parents of the two girls, who seem to have been conscientious, caring caretakers.  Nonetheless, how on earth were Morgan's parents and pediatrician not monitoring her VERY closely for signs of mental disorder?  Schizophrenia has a huge genetic component, and you would think that that would call for, among other things, vigorously watching what the girl was doing on her computer.  Searches of the browsing history would have revealed that she was into some very dark sites.  And although Anissa's dad thought he was being cautious, obviously a little snooping would have helped avert a disaster.  I can't say I blame him, though, because you just do not expect a child that young to be involved in such horrific things.  I am so very thankful that I raised my kids before all this existed.  I'll worry for my grandkids, but it's up to their parents to be vigilant.

One thing that puzzled me was the psychiatrist saying with confidence that Anissa showed no signs of psychopathy or sociopathy.  I'm not a trained mental-health professional, but her interviews gave me the chills.  Her affect was so flat, she was so coldly factual about what she did and said - no remorse in particular, just narrating the facts.  Isn't that kind of what psychopathy looks like?  The concern she showed at times seemed to me more for herself than for the enormity of what she had done.

As for the youtube stuff, some of that flat-out sickened me.  The woman (mom???) making her son watch a cat kill a mouse was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen.  When you put the two animals in a bathtub they cannot get out of, that's not nature, that's you being a sick idiot.  Circle of life, oh my god.  I quit watching The Following after the episode early on where the sicko made a kid kill a small creature to desensitize him.  To see an adult purposely subject a child to a manufactured lesson in "the circle of life" was nauseating. I was angry at her, whereas the parents of Morgan and Anissa evoked more pity and sadness.  

And, finally, I feel pretty strongly that if Slenderman had never been a thing, those girls would have picked up on some other disturbing legend or urban myth to be the excuse for doing the same thing.  No doubt the internet makes it more vivid, but this stuff has gone on forever and probably always will, humans being the sucky species we are.  

[walnutqueen]

On 01/28/2017 at 7:22 PM, ChristmasJones said:

Like most here, I was underwhelmed with this documentary. I wish they had waited until after the legal proceedings are over. I saw a program at some point that featured an entire hour interview with the parents of the victim. It was on one of the major networks- like 20/20 or something like that. I can understand why they would choose not to be involved in a documentary.

A key detail for me is that this girl came extremely close to actually being murdered.  They purposely left her there to die.

I think the crime somehow can seem a bit less intense given that she survived, but I wonder how these two would be perceived if she had actually died.

It does make one think of the case in New Zealand, although the motivation is slightly different, the two girls fed off each other and alone probably would not have committed such a crime. 

It makes me think of my BFF in middle school. We were joined at the hip and completely inseparable. That was 30 years ago and I can still remember her phone number because I called it every day for two years straight.  She was a trouble maker and I was her side-kick. We did a lot of bad things together. We would not have killed someone, for that I am certain, but I hate to think what we could have gotten up to if we had the type of internet access these two did.

Yes, I remember this being covered by one of my crime shows some time ago.  My take was that the 2 girls were budding sociopathic/psychopathic stone cold killers who found Slenderman a perfect foil for their murderous curiosity.  This show had a different slant, and didn't do a good job of telling the whole story.

[editorgrrl]

http://people.com/crime/slenderman-stabbing-victim-now-15-is-a-strong-young-woman-excelling-in-school/

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Nearly three years after Payton Leutner was stabbed 19 times by two classmates when she was 12 years old, the Wisconsin teen is thriving as a high school freshman taking Advanced Placement courses.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/13/ruling-expected-slender-man-confession/97846306/

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A judge ruled Monday that confessions made to police will be admissible against one of the two girls charged with trying to kill their sixth-grade classmate to please the fictional character Slender Man in 2014.

Circuit Judge Michael Bohren also said that jurors from Waukesha County will hear the case when it finally goes to trial, now set for October—3 1/2 years after the crime.

Edited February 16, 2017 by editorgrrl

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 1/24/2017 at 6:27 AM, Giant Misfit said:

They sure can and it's fucking appalling. It's possible that the law varies by state, but I believe that more often than not, children don't have to have parents or legal counsel with them when they're interrogated. And what kid is going to know they have a right to do either?! Holy shit.

Oh, come on.  The cop questioning Anissa told her that her parents knew she was there taking to the cops, right before reading Anissa her rights.  And we saw Morgan signing and intitialing the sheet that had her Miranda rights on it, as the cop said real fast in a monotone, "If you cannot afford an attorney one will be provided to you by the courts," followed by, "Understanding these rights you're willing to sit down and talk to me about today?"  What more should be necessary when questioning a 12-year-old who faces being tried as an adult for attempted murder?

[Guest]

@StatisticalOutlier Right? I'm surprised the cop didn't haul out hand puppets that told her, "All little girls like to tell their stories to the police."

[Calamity Jane]

On 2/20/2017 at 2:01 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Oh, come on.  The cop questioning Anissa told her that her parents knew she was there taking to the cops, right before reading Anissa her rights.  And we saw Morgan signing and intitialing the sheet that had her Miranda rights on it, as the cop said real fast in a monotone, "If you cannot afford an attorney one will be provided to you by the courts," followed by, "Understanding these rights you're willing to sit down and talk to me about today?"  What more should be necessary when questioning a 12-year-old who faces being tried as an adult for attempted murder?

Just re-watched this one with my mental-health-therapist-in-juvenile-hall-and-adult-jail daughter, and she said the case is pretty notorious in her milieu.  The girl whose father is schizophrenic still just flabbergasts me - the parents said they knew schizophrenia has a genetic component, but they still reacted to her odd behaviors and reactions as if it was all within normal parameters.  Not if you already have this genetic gun possibly going off!  Not a word about getting her seen or checked out by a specialist.  I understand the desperate hope that she would not be affected, but to me it was not a good decision to cross their fingers and hope.  My daughter's reaction was unprintable; she had been under the impression the schizophrenic dad was not biologically related, and she couldn't believe they hadn't been more aware of this possibility.  

And the lack of parental presence during those interviews staggered me.  Wow, people in Wisconsin sure seem OK with minors getting f***ed over by the system (the kid from Making a Murderer, Avery's cousin? nephew? still breaks my heart).  

I do not believe, however, that the Internet is the villain in this story.  Those girls would have found some other urban legend or made-up crap to justify their impulse to hurt or kill someone even without Slenderman, I believe.  I remember being 11 and 12, and I did not have any difficulty at all separating fact from fiction at that age.  Up to about 7, maybe.  Their supposed belief that Slenderman was real did not persuade me much at all.  They wanted to do something evil, and they made something they saw online fit as a reason, not the other way around.  

PS - Just looked above and saw that I said much the same 18 months ago or so.  On this second viewing, I had less sympathy for the parents than the first time through, though, especially Morgan's parents.  You can see how horrible her dad feels, possibly because he is the one who passed on the gene for schizophrenia, and it's true you don't expect such dark thoughts from children that age - but they really needed heightened vigilance in the circumstances.  Still a very sad story all 'round.  

Edited September 6, 2018 by Calamity Jane