A Series Of Unfortunate Events - General Discussion

[helenamonster]

Hostile Hospital Part 1:

This is my favorite episode of the season so far. A lot of the other episodes have felt very meandering and lacked tension, but this was awesome. The perfect blend of absurd and genuinely terrifying. The scene where they scare Babs and the last scene of Esme chasing the kids through the Library of Records were excellently staged and acted. I loved the reference to The Shining with the White Faced Women and Violet running towards the exit as the file cabinets fell down behind her.

I also loved how the big obstacle that keeps getting in Olaf's and the Baudelaires' way? Paperwork.

The Baudelaires stealing the keys from Hal is a huge turning point for the morality of the books, and I thought it played very well here. They know what they're doing is wrong and they feel bad about it, but there is a bigger picture and they can't just ignore that in favor of politeness.

I say it every episode but Lucy Punch is really wonderful in this series. At this point Olaf going after the Baudelaires is just sort of what she does, but her hatred for them is deeply personal

Spoiler

since she believes it was their mother that stole the sugar bowl from her

and it's nice to get some of that juice back now that Olaf is kind of just going through the motions.

So excited to watch Part 2. I feel like Hostile Hospital was one of my least favorite books in the series. It has a lot of good points, as it's the first book where the stakes have switched with the Baudelaires being the ones on the run and not Count Olaf so that change is nice, but otherwise I could kind of take it or leave it, especially when it's stuck between Vile Village, which I thought was one of the funniest of the books, and Carnivorous Carnival, which was always a personal favorite due to its setting and the storyline with

Spoiler

Olivia.

And yet these episodes are shaking up to be my favorites of this season, sort of like how Miserable Mill was my absolute least favorite of the books and those episodes were my favorites of season one.

[tennisgurl]

*Sigh* Such sadness in this series, and it really is super frustrating that the kids never get a real win for very long, but...I guess I cant say I wasn't warned. 

I really liked this season, and I wish it had individual episode threads so I could talk about each episode more individually, but as a whole story, it was just what I wanted it to be. A weird, surreal dark little slice of comedic sadness. Really, the show has actually managed to make the show sadder than the books even were, because you get to know the supporting characters more, so when they inevitably die tragically, its even more heartbreaking. 

I really love the casting in this show, everyone knocks it out of the park. All the adults are playing it so wacky, but also play it straight, weirdly enough. Everyone is just committed to this weirdo world the show has created. Every set looks unique, while also looking like it all fits together. A lot of great visuals this season. I especially loved the shot of all the crows (MURDER!) all flying to the tree, the shots of the records room in the hospital, and all the scenes at the carnival. That set looked awesome, it was like a bizarre American Horror Story set. 

I appreciate that each books will apparently be getting two episodes, basically each one getting a two hour movie. So much better than trying to compress the whole story into a mini series of a traditional film format. Because its not really the story thats memorable about the books, its the style and how it plays with genre conventions, and the show hits that sweet spot with its highly stylized sets and costumes, and, of course, lemony Snicket there to tell us how everything will continue sucking. 

This season also was more emotional to me, weirdly enough. I actually teared up while Lemony was talking about his brothers death as he narrates about it, then when Klaus realized it was his birthday. Poor poor orphans. I also felt rather emotional when they showed the flashback to the VFD in their prime, and we saw a bunch of the now deceased characters (Monty, Josephine, Gustov, Jacques) having fun and hanging out. Then when the kids saw it, and they both got sad when they saw Uncle Monty talking on the tapes. "I miss him too." I think of all their guardians, he was definitely the one they bonded with the most, and he was probably the closest thing they had to a nice, but also competent, adult yet. 

I think my favorite Snicket rant was the one about job interviews. "At worst, you are left wandering a vast abyss alone and in misery. At best, you are left wandering a vast abyss alone and in miser, and with a salary". or something.

[Kel Varnsen]

Finished The Carnivorous Carnival tonight. Overall I really enjoyed this season and this last episode was a great way to finish it. The literal clifffhanger was really great; when my daugher and I were reading the books and we finished this one and then saw the episode list for season 2 we thought ending like that would be really cool. Esme's jealousy over Lulu was really funny, although I am not sure what the point of Mr Poe being at the Carnival was.

As for the book:

Spoiler

I think I liked this ending better. Olaf actually cutting the plank so Olivia falls in the pit worked way better than her falling in because of all the commotion. And I liked the idea that Madame Lulu was just a cover used by VFD agents including Kit, who then shows up in the cab. There is a bit in the Penultimate Peril where the kids are outside the hotel they see a guy in a cab just sitting there. I assumed the guy was Lemony, and I wonder if the show will make it be him, and I wonder if it will be Jacques'/Kit's cab.

Again we didn't lose a henchman, which I am wondering why, if there is some big plan for them all at some point.

And I really liked how they made a point of saying in part 1 that Violet's hair ribbon was the hospital bracelet and in this episode it was a string. In the books it bugged me that in the Hostile Hospital she gives her ribbon to Hal and then in future books she still has one with no explanation as to where it came from.

 

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not sure what the point of Mr Poe being at the Carnival was.

I'm not sure the point of having him at the Vile Village, the Hospital and the Carnival.  I know he's supposed to be dumb but thinking Jacques was Count Olaf even though he has seen Count Olaf before out of disguise?  With the hospital and the carnival, it makes one wonder why the Baudelaires don't consider getting his attention (especially the decision to go into Olaf's trunk... getting arrested would be preferable to getting killed by Olaf).  In the books, it made sense since by then they were pretty much all alone.  

Edited April 15, 2018 by Camera One

[Beatriceblake]

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

I'm not sure the point of having him at the Vile Village, the Hospital and the Carnival.  I know he's supposed to be dumb but thinking Jacques was Count Olaf even though he has seen Count Olaf before out of disguise?  With the hospital and the carnival, it makes one wonder why the Baudelaires don't consider getting his attention (especially the decision to go into Olaf's trunk... getting arrested would be preferable to getting killed by Olaf).  In the books, it made sense since by then they were pretty much all alone.  

 

Don't forget that at this point the Baudelaires are hoping the survivor is one of their parents and they think the survivor might be hiding in the Mortmain Mountains where Olaf is going.

That said though, I didn't like Mr Poe being inserted into all these scenes/stories he wasn't in previously. It smacks of them wanting to give the actor some work rather than coming from any story reason. I think I would have preferred it if they'd just shown him fruitlessly searching for the Baudelaires from time to time.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Beatriceblake

[helenamonster]

Hostile Hospital Part 2:

This part was a perfect compliment to the first and definitely my favorite pair of episodes so far this season.

Y'all, I audibly gasped when they showed the sugar bowl in the supply closet. I think because in the books

Spoiler

we never get to see it, but we hear about it so much that we're so desperate to see it and find out what's inside (it basically serves as the MacGuffin for the last few books). I knew it wouldn't burn up in the hospital because it at least has to get to the Hotel Denouement, but who has it?

I'm both surprised and not surprised that

Spoiler

the Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender didn't die like in the books, though I do like that they referenced it by having them just barely make it out.

Olaf's troupe in general has played a much bigger part in this show than in the books, and they're great for comedic cutaways, so I can understand why they'd want to keep them all around as long as possible.

I also liked that they let Babs survive. We never really meet her in the books (she's just a voice behind an intercom) but I was getting attached to her, and the ways in which people get dispatched on this show are always deeply unsettling (I think in the books Olaf makes an allusion to throwing her off the roof).

Olaf menacing Violet with all the surgical tools was genuinely frightening which this series needs. He's not just a buffoon, he's a seriously dangerous and deranged person. He wants to murder these kids and that shouldn't get lost in his other shenanigans.

Alrighty, let's get to the carnival!

[helenamonster]

Carnivorous Carnival Part 1:

If I hadn't already known from the books that Olivia and Madame Lulu were the same person, I might have actually been fooled by the disguise. Wonderful job with costuming and makeup, and Sara Rue did amazing with the voice. I mean the whole "gypsy" caricature is quite tasteless nowadays (parts of it weren't even Romani, that nose chain is worn by Hindi women at their weddings) but it didn't feel like the show was being tasteless, more that Olivia was being tasteless/was using the resources available to her to put together a costume Olaf would by, and that sort of getup is still what people associate with the Romani.

Originally I had predicted that Olivia was evil all along (and, hey, there's still one more episode so I might be right!) but I guess they're just straight up changing the story? In the books, Olivia is the person who told Olaf where the Baudelaires would be going each time they got a new guardian, but in the show they are meeting for the first time. And in the books they were undeniably always the same person...Madame Lulu was the disguise Olivia Caliban donned to hide herself from Olaf. Here, it's not so much that Olivia is Madame Lulu, it's that she took the place of the former Madame Lulu...and, like, what happened to her?

The "rivalry" between Olivia and Esme over Olaf was also well done...obviously Olivia isn't actually attracted to Olaf because yuck! But Esme is an envious twit and it was delightful to watch them spar.

The Carnivorous Carnival was always one of my favorite books in the series but I've learned recently that it's actually quite divisive due to is portrayal of the freaks. I never understood that, and I hope this episode cleared up any misconceptions that people had about it. Snicket/Handler always portrayed the Freak Show as cruel. There is nothing particularly freakish about Hugo, Colette, or Kevin, and even if there was, that's no reason to put them in a show and mock them. That always came across crystal clear to me in the books and I hope it does for people here too.

It was awesome to see a bunch of the VFD members together and partying before the

Spoiler

schism. I hope they'll actually get into what caused the schism, as they never really do in the books. The story about the masked ball and Beatrice dressed up as a butterfly always just seemed like a throwaway--it never occurred to me that whatever happened there could be the cause of the schism.

"If she's really a psychic, why doesn't she just get her own tv show?" "Trust me, I tried that for nine years." Hah!

We also got some good foreshadowing with the Hook Handed Man regarding

Spoiler

Fiona and Captain Widdershins.

[helenamonster]

(I realize I'm triple-posting which is bad forum etiquette but when you only watch one ep at a time...)

Carnivorous Carnival Part 2:

Y'all. I actually sobbed at this episode. It was so, so upsetting.

In the books, we don't meet Olivia until Carnivorous Carnival. We find out she's the one that's been telling Olaf where the kids are each time they move. She's a weak-willed sycophant who promises to run away with the Baudelaires but then tells Olaf who they are, takes away the fanbelt before they can fix the roller coaster, and is fully prepared to throw Violet and Klaus into the pit until chaos erupts and she falls in instead. At that point it's like good fucking riddance, let's find the next adult that's going to disappoint these children.

But in this adaptation she got a serious morality upgrade, and we got to know her really well over the course of the season (and I liked the detail of Madame Lulu being an alias assumed by whomever is working in the fortune teller's tent), so then knowing her death was coming and watching it happen was deeply unsettling. And they played that scream twice! I will say Sara Rue did a fantastic job this season. She turned Olivia from one of my most loathed characters into one of my favorites.

Upsetting moment number two: Violet and Klaus falling back down the mountain with Sunny in Olaf's clutches. It was effective in the books and it's effective here.

And three: Hugo, Colette, and Kevin being super eager to push Olivia into the pit so they can join Olaf's troupe. Look, I know y'all have been through some tough shit but vicious murder is not the answer. Being ridiculed is not an excuse for being a terrible person.

The heckler in the audience and his two kids were played by NPH's real-life husband and kids, how cool!

Mrs. Bass becoming a bank robber for the thrills was always a delightfully random detail that I'm glad has carried over to this adaptation.

So the woman showing up at the carnival at the end (and who used the Madame Lulu alias prior to Olivia, and also knows the whereabouts of the sugar bowl) is none other than the supreme badass of this entire series:

Spoiler

Kit Snicket.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Emmy nominations!

Outstanding Children’s Program
Outstanding Fantasy/Sci-Fi Costumes - The Vile Village: Part 1

Edited July 13, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Kel Varnsen]

New trailer up today

 

I think the most interesting part is that the Baudelaire children seem to actually meet Lemony Snicket.

[SnoGirl]

Dang, this is the last of the series. What book did we get to? They have to be combining books now right? I thought we had two more seasons left-is this season longer?

[Camera One]

35 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Dang, this is the last of the series. What book did we get to? They have to be combining books now right? I thought we had two more seasons left-is this season longer?

Season 2 ended with "The Carnivorous Carnival".

They haven't been combining books.  It's still going to be two episodes per book until "The End", literally (the final book will only be one episode, from what I've read). 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Camera One

[Kel Varnsen]

25 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Dang, this is the last of the series. What book did we get to? They have to be combining books now right? I thought we had two more seasons left-is this season longer?

Nope last season. Season 2 ended with the Carnivorous Carnival. So this last season will cover the last 4 books in what I assume will be 8 episodes. Those last 4 books were a lot longer so it will be interesting to see how long the episodes are.

After watching that trailer I asked my 8 year old if she would be sad when the series is done and she said yes. After the first season we read the entire series when she was in grade 1 and 2. And I can easily say that she is such a strong reader because of Lemony Snicket.

[helenamonster]

23 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

New trailer up today

 

I think the most interesting part is that the Baudelaire children seem to actually meet Lemony Snicket.

Spoiler

And it appears that the long-held speculation that Lemony is the cab driver in The Penultimate Peril is true.

[Spartan Girl]

On April 18, 2018 at 10:14 PM, helenamonster said:

Hugo, Colette, and Kevin being super eager to push Olivia into the pit so they can join Olaf's troupe. Look, I know y'all have been through some tough shit but vicious murder is not the answer. Being ridiculed is not an excuse for being a terrible person

So much word. You know, with the exception of the Snickets, Olivia, Jaquelyn, and Larry, all of the adults on this show are either stupid or terrible people -- or both. God, even Mr. Poe is worse than he ever was in the books, and that's no easy feat.

Despite that I don't love the books as much as I used to and I'm disgusted by Daniel Handler's behavior, I found myself getting sucked into the series, and in many ways it's better than the books. We got more info about VFD and Olivia and Aunt Josephine were better characters. And I adore Patrick Warburton as Lemony Snicket. Not to mention Nathan Filion as the dashing Jacques -- he and Olivia made a great ship.

 I'm vainly hoping the ending is better on this version than than the books. Or at the very least

 

The Penultimate Peril has the kids telling off Mr. Poe once and for all if he tries to give that self-righteous lecture after Dewey's death.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

Season 3 thoughts (spoiler tagging because it only just came out)

WOW. Thank God this end gave us slightly more closure than the books. We still don't know what happened to the Baudelaires but we got happier endings for the Quagmires, Fiona, and Fernand! And stupid Mrs. Poe and her stupid newspaper got busted for spreading fake stories! Yessssss! Poor Mr. Poe, I feel so bad for him -- NOT!

I loved the flashback of the opera. Beatrice (Morena Baccarin!) and Lemony...wow. So Beatrice accidentally killed Olaf's dad. Yikes. Doesn't justify anything he did after, but being let down and betrayed by all the people he depended on in his life made him the way he is -- a good parallel to remind the Baudelaires what they could let themselves become. And younger and slightly less gross Olaf and Kit made the whole kiss in The End slightly less yuck. SLIGHTLY.

I have to admit I liked Olaf calling out the incompetent adults during the trial and how they helped him more than they ever did the children. Because, yeah, they all suck (though at least Justice Strauss tried).They should've escaped with Lemony when they had the chance...

Yay, Lemony meeting up with Beatrice Jr.! Good note to end the series on

[helenamonster]

Only watching one episode at a time again...it's the last season so want to savor it! So, Slippery Slope Part 1:

Hugo, Colette, and Kevin can miss me with their ho-hum nonsense. Also, I doubt they're dead.

I've really loved the friendship that is forming between Sunny and the hook-handed man.

Kit Snicket is my mom and I would die for her.

Speaking of Kit, re the dragonfly mechanism

Spoiler

I wonder if the woman in the dragonfly costume was always supposed to be her and the assumption that it was Beatrice was a deliberate misdirect, or if it's another instance of VFD members employing the same skills/technologies. If it's the former, Handler does a similar fakeout in All The Wrong Questions, where the whole book you assume Lemony is talking about Beatrice when he refers to a girl in the city, but it is later revealed to be Kit.

[Camera One]

I'm sad this series is coming to an end too.

One thread is once again going to be hard to navigate since I'm watching one or two episodes at a time too.

Slippery Slope Part 1

This part was a little disappointed... not as moving as I remembered.  There were a few little changes from the books... some were good, some bothered me a bit.  Klaus and Violet should have found some beekeeper masks on the ground outside, so they could enter disguised.  I thought they would include a scene where they washed the makeup off their faces from the Carnival but they didn't.  The Snow Scouts were also less entertaining since they only recited their ridiculous motto once.  The Leader should have been funnier... I don't remember the leader being a total pushover.  The Man with no Hair and the Woman with no Beard being mentors to Olaf when he was growing up was an interesting addition.  I forgot the Quagmires are triplets so are basically the same age... great way to use the same actor again.   Book spoilers:

Spoiler

It was a good idea to make the Hook-Handed Man more sympathetic in this episode before "The Grim Grotto".  They also seemed to be making the henchman of indeterminate gender more sympathetic.  Though ironically, it's the two ladies who are supposed to make the decision to leave the troop in this one, yet they were still the same.  I do find them entertaining, so I don't mind if they all stick around for a bit longer.

[Camera One]

Slippery Slope Part 2

The ending was a little anticlimatic.  Was it too expensive CGI-wise to make all the ice melt?  It hardly felt like a False Spring at all.  

The killing of the Freaks was a bit dark, but combined with the plot to murder the parents of the Snow Scouts, it did make the Man with a Beard and the Woman with Hair more menacing.  I was surprised they had the remaining henchpeople leave all at once, with the exception of the Hook-Handed Man.   Won't they need someone for comic relief next episode?  

Maybe I'm mis-remembering but it all seemed more simple than it was in the book, where it was more of a deal that the Baudelaires were becoming "villainous" by setting a trap for Esme.  Here, she seemed to have fallen into the hot tub by accident.  

It felt like they chose to use the screentime for the Kit Snicket/Mr. Poe scenes, which I didn't think were too necessary.  

Still, these first two episodes were reasonably engaging and they included the major events.  I do find it interesting how they are choosing to tie the events from different books together more coherently.

[bettername2come]

Finally found the thread! I'm on the third episode right now, but I just wanted to pop in and say that I love how Sunny is finally talking comprehensibly. I'll come back when I'm further along and not worried about spoilers.

[tennisgurl]

Trying not to look at spoilers, but I really liked the first episode, and while I am sad that the show is ending, I am glad that they arent dragging things out beyond even the books. And I LOVE this theme song so much! Its one of the few Netflix shows that I never skip the intro.

[bettername2come]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Trying not to look at spoilers, but I really liked the first episode, and while I am sad that the show is ending, I am glad that they arent dragging things out beyond even the books. And I LOVE this theme song so much! Its one of the few Netflix shows that I never skip the intro.

Well, how can you resist? It changes and then you have to hear the new lyrics. 

[helenamonster]

Slippery Slope Part 2:

I love, love that they included the bit from the books of Lemony letting Violet have her privacy with Quigley on the ledge. It was always such a beautiful detail and showed how much Lemony had truly come to care for these kids.

Continuity quesh: we know Monty's place burned down shortly after the Baudelaires left it. But wasn't it burned down by the time the Quagmire parents got there? They're showing Quigley hanging out, but that would have been after his parents died and therefore after they found it burned down. The detail of Quigley finding refuge there is from the books, I think, and it's been a while since I watched season one, but I thought they made an error there.

I am a rational person. I know that they bring the little girl who plays Sunny in at separate times to get her cutaways in real quick so that they are complying with child labor laws, and that they probably have her mom offscreen making faces and coaxing reactions out of her. But gosh darn if I don't think that little cutie is the greatest actress in the world.

So the freaks are just straight up dead, huh? I know I shouldn't be surprised when this series gets that dark but yeesh.

16 hours ago, Camera One said:

The Leader should have been funnier... I don't remember the leader being a total pushover.

In the books, the leader is actually a man named Bruce, not a woman named Brucie, and Bruce had first been introduced in The Reptile Room as the guy taking away all of the snakes. I guess there really was no need to keep that detail from the source material since the connection never goes anywhere.

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

Slippery Slope Part 2

The ending was a little anticlimatic.  Was it too expensive CGI-wise to make all the ice melt?  It hardly felt like a False Spring at all.  

Maybe I'm mis-remembering but it all seemed more simple than it was in the book, where it was more of a deal that the Baudelaires were becoming "villainous" by setting a trap for Esme.  Here, she seemed to have fallen into the hot tub by accident.  

It felt like they chose to use the screentime for the Kit Snicket/Mr. Poe scenes, which I didn't think were too necessary.  

1) Agree about the anti-climactic feel. When the ice thaws in the book, the stream turns back into, well, a stream, and Quigley floats away and his fate is left much more grim. 

Spoiler

Especially if you assume that he managed to reunite with Duncan, Isadora, and Hector and that they were all swallowed up by The Great Unknown.

Here he seemed...fine? Also in the books there was the absurd detail of the fish sticking their heads out of the stream to breath because the water was clogged with smoke. Perhaps it was just too much but surprised they didn't include that.

2) Agree again. The Baudelaires deciding to knowingly set a trap for Esme is a huge morality tipping point in the books. They tried to squeeze the essence of it in here but I thought they kinda failed at it.

3) I can't complain about more Kit (she's my favorite!) but I do wonder if they felt they needed to establish her character more, as she only appears in the last two books. However, I thought she successfully made an impact with her limited page-time in the source material and could have still done so here (Allison Williams is perfectly cast imo) but maybe they also wanted to keep the throughline of the mystery woman who showed up at the end of last season for the people who aren't familiar with the books, since they introduced that rotating Madame Lulu plot point.

[Spartan Girl]

26 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

So the freaks are just straight up dead, huh? I know I shouldn't be surprised when this series gets that dark but yeesh.

Is it wrong that I don't care? I mean, they almost killed Violet and Klaus. Karma happens.

[SnoGirl]

I loved it. I watched all the episodes so spoilers abound:

Spoiler

The ending here is so much better than the books. The books were seriously depressing-there was barely a sliver of hope.

 

Here we can assume the siblings survived. And at some point, their loves did get better. 

 

I absolutely LOVED Beatrice finding Lemony. That ending should have been in the book too. Especially with the story of what happened to them.

 

Miffed that the Baudelaires father was short changed. It was slightly confusing in the opera scene where it fit considering he wasnt there but Lemony was. I wish we had gotten just a smidge more of the parents.

 

I also loved that the siblings realized that they were also starting fires to fight fires. It was a startling but true fact, they were doing what others were doing bc they thought they were right in what they had to do. Interesting and another dark layer to the story.

I’m torn bc I really wanted an adult series of Unfortunate Events, with the siblings trying to restart the VFD. But I loves the ending so now I don’t want them to touch it.

[AnimeMania]

If they wanted to do another season they probably could, they left so many gaps in the story, they could easily flesh out details that were glossed over. All of the adult characters were in love with someone other than who the ended up with and how that occurred could be included. We know nothing about the Quagmires, especially the parents. The early years of the VFD before the schism are extremely vague. Who exactly was in the VFD, what was their founding principles, and what kinds of problems they were created to solve could also highlighted.

[Kel Varnsen]

16 hours ago, helenamonster said:

1) Agree about the anti-climactic feel. When the ice thaws in the book, the stream turns back into, well, a stream, and Quigley floats away and his fate is left much more grim. 

I liked the thaw better too. The big thing that bugged me is that with the show version and the sled it seems like they could have just jumped off the sled or tipped it over or something once they lost Quigley. With them going down the streams and separating that didn't work.

For slippery slope part 1 I liked that the parachute didn't actually work as a parachute. Although I wish Violet had told Klaus that if he tried to stop the wheel on the cliff side of the road it would turn the cart off the cliff.

That said Sunny tying up her hair and saying she would invent something might be the best non-book thing this show has done.

[Delphi]

I've really enjoyed this show,  as much or maybe more than I enjoyed the books,  but this last season felt very rushed.   It was very good,  because the entire show has been good.   But it felt like it was missing something... I'm not sure what.   Perhaps just the lack of actors and Daniel Handler not being in charge anymore.  Either way, I'm going to miss it. 

[helenamonster]

Grim Grotto Part 1:

Huh, interesting they almost completely eliminated the Captain Widdershins character (or just hastened his disappearance as it occurred in the book so that he didn't appear at all). I was curious about this decision at first but as the episode went on I thought they were wise to consolidate. They pretty much gave most of his plot-relevant character traits to Fiona, who is just as annoying as I remembered! For me, she ranks up there with Mr. Poe and Aunt Josephine as The Worst.

I was also intrigued by the switching around of key plot events. In the book, the Baudelaires and Fiona go to look for the sugar bowl and return to find Captain Widdershins and Phil gone and the medusoid mycelium in Sunny's helmet. Then they get captured by Olaf and have to race against the clock to get back to Sunny so they can cure her. But I think a lot of this switching around has to do with giving Olaf and co. more scenes. We've talked about it in this thread before, but it's sort of unavoidable to give Olaf a larger role in screen adaptations than he had in the books. In the books, the kids are the main characters and there are no scenes that take place that don't have at least one of them in them, except for Lemony's long asides. But when you're talking about a movie or tv show, the actors playing the kids are relatively unknown and it makes sense to cast Olaf with an A-lister who by their status demands more focus.

I do wish they'd kept the detail of there being no diving suits small enough for Sunny so Violet and Klaus have to carry her in a helmet, but it is also humorous to imagine that the Queequeg has toddler-sized suits at the ready just in case. Also the actress playing Sunny is probably getting too big to suspend disbelief in that scenario, even in a series as ridiculous as this.

12 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

If they wanted to do another season they probably could, they left so many gaps in the story, they could easily flesh out details that were glossed over. All of the adult characters were in love with someone other than who the ended up with and how that occurred could be included. We know nothing about the Quagmires, especially the parents. The early years of the VFD before the schism are extremely vague. Who exactly was in the VFD, what was their founding principles, and what kinds of problems they were created to solve could also highlighted.

There is a lot of supplemental material to draw from for a spin-off/prequel series or maybe even just movie-length peeks into different aspects of the mythology. It would be a lot of work but I think a smart adaptation of The Unauthorized Biography could be really spectacular. I'd also be curious to see what they could do with The Beatrice Letters.

I also wonder if they'd consider adapting the four-book prequel series All The Wrong Questions, which are about young Lemony's first VFD mission. The style is very different (mock-noir as opposed to mock-gothic/steampunk) and most of the characters, except for Lemony, don't appear in the main series (there are a few cameos from people we know) but I think it could be fun. I haven't finished this season yet, but they have already started incorporating elements from ATWQ into this adaptation, including the identity of The Great Unknown.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, helenamonster said:

intrigued by the switching around of key plot events. In the book, the Baudelaires and Fiona go to look for the sugar bowl and return to find Captain Widdershins and Phil gone and the medusoid mycelium in Sunny's helmet. Then they get captured

I always hated Widdershins and Phil mysteriously bailing on them out of nowhere. Did they ever explain why in the books?

[Camera One]

Grim Grotto Part 1:

It took a lot to wait a day before watching this one, LOL.   I also started late, so I won't watch the second part until tomorrow.

12 hours ago, helenamonster said:

Grim Grotto Part 1:

Huh, interesting they almost completely eliminated the Captain Widdershins character (or just hastened his disappearance as it occurred in the book so that he didn't appear at all). I was curious about this decision at first but as the episode went on I thought they were wise to consolidate. They pretty much gave most of his plot-relevant character traits to Fiona, who is just as annoying as I remembered! For me, she ranks up there with Mr. Poe and Aunt Josephine as The Worst.

I was also intrigued by the switching around of key plot events. In the book, the Baudelaires and Fiona go to look for the sugar bowl and return to find Captain Widdershins and Phil gone and the medusoid mycelium in Sunny's helmet. Then they get captured by Olaf and have to race against the clock to get back to Sunny so they can cure her. But I think a lot of this switching around has to do with giving Olaf and co. more scenes. We've talked about it in this thread before, but it's sort of unavoidable to give Olaf a larger role in screen adaptations than he had in the books. In the books, the kids are the main characters and there are no scenes that take place that don't have at least one of them in them, except for Lemony's long asides. But when you're talking about a movie or tv show, the actors playing the kids are relatively unknown and it makes sense to cast Olaf with an A-lister who by their status demands more focus.

I had mixed feelings about these changes.  It seems like they have done a bit more re-arranging of sequencing in this final season, than in previous ones.  They've always added and omitted, but it felt like previously, the basic skeleton was retained.

Without the melting of the stream, it made less sense why the Baudelaires had to get into that submarine.  At the very least, the ice should be cracking and they would fall into the ocean.

After watching this episode, I guess it doesn't matter too much that Captain Widdershins is absent.  For a bit there, I was afraid they had cut out the ridiculous "He who hesitates is lost" mantra.  I was so relieved when it was used!  I thought it was a bad idea for Fiona to hesitate about going to the Grim Grotto, since it went against that motto.  They also over-played Violet's mistrust of Fiona.  It made her seem kind of mean.  They did a good job of showing some romantic attraction between Klaus and Fiona.  

Some of the Olaf scenes in the submarine were kind of boring.  Having him arrive before the Baudelaires went to the Grim Grotto would have been okay without all that unamusing filler with him, Esme and Carmelita (I wouldn't cut everything... maybe about half of it).  

I did like that they had Kit meeting Quigley in the episode, since in the books, they did meet offscreen.  I'm not liking the character as much as the librarian character from last year.  Having the Baudelaires encounter Quigley in the Grotto was an interesting (and not a bad) change.  I don't remember him getting his hands on the sugar bowl in the book.  

Edited January 4, 2019 by Camera One

[helenamonster]

Grim Grotto Part 2

"This strange, fertile woman." I hate you, Mr. Poe, but deep down? Never change.

I know she was trying to save her brother but giving Olaf the medusoid mycelium only made Fiona an even more aggravating character than she was in the book. At least in the book, from what I can remember, Olaf picks the helmet up of his own accord. So, yeah, maybe sometimes it is good to hesitate, girl! Looks like we haven't seen the last of her and Fernald, though, which is another change.

It also appears that we may be heading for a more uplifting ending as far as the Quagmires are concerned. Still possible that won't follow through but it's nice to dream!

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I always hated Widdershins and Phil mysteriously bailing on them out of nowhere. Did they ever explain why in the books?

I don't think they ever explained why they left, but I always assumed they hadn't planned to be gone for long, since they'd set up things for Violet's birthday party. 

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure it's implied that they got swallowed up by The Great Unknown.

[Camera One]

Grim Grotto Part 2

On 1/4/2019 at 10:04 AM, helenamonster said:

Grim Grotto Part 2

I know she was trying to save her brother but giving Olaf the medusoid mycelium only made Fiona an even more aggravating character than she was in the book. At least in the book, from what I can remember, Olaf picks the helmet up of his own accord.

Strangely, despite that, I felt like her betrayal was a bit more sympathetic as portrayed in this episode than the book, where it felt more shocking.  Maybe it was because they made Fernald more sympathetic and helpful by saving Sunny's life twice?  Fiona seemed more helpful here than in the book, where I thought Violet did a bit more to repair.  I re-read it this summer in anticipation for this season, but I can't remember some of the details.

I thought this second episode was better than the first half.  The Wasabi solution bit felt a bit too rushed and less satisfying than the book for some reason.  Could the Baudelaires have destroyed the fungus in the helmet if they had wanted to?  That would have needed a lot of Wasabi.  

I guess it was a good idea to have Quigley

Spoiler

be responsible for giving the sugar bowl to the crows.  I don't remember if they revealed who did that in the book.  Based on this episode, I'm guessing they will be showing the off-screen events from the books, like Kit teaming up with Fiona and Fernald to help the Quagmires, while the Baudelaires are at the Hotel Denouement.  

I still haven't warmed to the actress who plays Kit.  It seems too obvious she's acting and she doesn't feel very natural.  It didn't help she had very little to do in both halves of "The Grim Grotto".

Edited January 8, 2019 by Camera One

[Spartan Girl]

I agree that Fiona's betrayal was a bit more sympathetic this time around. And I liked that Fernald was a bit more nuanced too. I love his weird little bond with Sunny.

While it's too much to hope that Violet and Klaus ever call out Mr. Poe on being useless, I did love their "Nope, bye" response to his so-called offer to be their guardian.

[Kel Varnsen]

16 hours ago, Camera One said:

Grim Grotto Part 1:.

After watching this episode, I guess it doesn't matter too much that Captain Widdershins is absent.  For a bit there, I was afraid they had cut out the ridiculous "He who hesitates is lost" mantra.  I was so relieved when it was used!  I thought it was a bad idea for Fiona to hesitate about going to the Grim Grotto, since it went against that motto.  They also over-played Violet's mistrust of Fiona.  It made her seem kind of mean.  

I think not having Widdershins worked just from a filming standpoint. A submarine is supposed to be kind of a confined space. Adding another person to it would just sort of take up space and be kind of redundant to the more shortened stories they are telling.

I didn't mind Violet being pissed off at Fiona. I saw it more at her built up frustration at going to another place and having to deal with another set of VFD secrets and bullshit.

On 1/3/2019 at 1:38 PM, helenamonster said:

Grim Grotto Part 1:

I haven't finished this season yet, but they have already started incorporating elements from ATWQ into this adaptation, including the identity of The Great Unknown.

Also in the Carnivorous Carnival when the Baudelaires when watch the VFD movie Stain'd by the Sea is one of the mentioned locations.

For Grim Grotto pt1 I really liked how they explained where Olaf's sub came from. I also liked how they showed the Great Unknown on screen, otherwise known as the

Spoiler

Bombinating Beast

In part 2 I really liked they payoff of the Hook Handed Man's friendship with Sunny. Pretty impressive how they built that up since season 1.

[helenamonster]

Penultimate Peril Part 1

I am confusion. Including younger Lemony in the series lines up with some previously-known chronology (he was presumed dead before Violet was born because

Spoiler

Beatrice was planning to name Violet Lemony if she was a boy, though must have found out he was alive before Klaus was born because the tradition they followed was to name children after somebody who had died)

but doesn't make sense from the perspective of Lemony following the Baudelaires. In the books, it is assumed that he is only just behind them (probably in the location they just were, for instance at Uncle Monty's when they're at Aunt Josephine's). The big piece of evidence that holds this theory up is that in one book he hides a letter to Kit

Spoiler

when if he was really writing them that long after the events had taken place, he'd know she was already dead.

Also, if he actually meets the Baudelaires at the Hotel Denouement, why does he have to start all over? Haven't watched part 2 yet, so does he not get the whole story at the Hotel and therefore has to retrace their steps? Does he have to leave before

Spoiler

the trial where they reveal everything?

If this is the case, then I guess he is busy gathering his intel when everything goes down on the island, and therefore doesn't know Kit is dead until much later.

Outside of my pedantic continuity questions, I liked Max Greenfield as Frank/Earnest/Dewey--a shame he couldn't stick around longer, but that is how the story goes. The shot of him floating in the water above the library was beautiful.

So in this adaptation, Justice Strauss is the true JS. I (like many others) thought we were headed for that identity to be Jacquelyn, but I guess she's off to Winnipeg (assuming her mother is the Duchess? Wasn't Gustav her brother? Or I guess half-brother since they have different last names? But then wouldn't that make the Duchess of Winnipeg his mother too if they have different fathers? Or maybe they have the same father but he abandoned one of them and only gave the other his name? The Duchess of Winnipeg is a less-than-tertiary character in the main series and I forget a lot of the already scant details we know about her...I doubt it's even important here, probably just a throwaway Easter egg).

21 hours ago, Camera One said:

Strangely, despite that, I felt like her betrayal was a bit more sympathetic as portrayed in this episode than the book, where it felt more shocking.  Maybe it was because they made Fernand more sympathetic and helpful by saving Sunny's life twice?  Fiona seemed more helpful here than in the book, where I thought Violet did a bit more to repair.  I re-read it this summer in anticipation for this season, but I can't remember some of the details.

I feel like they definitely made an effort for her to be a more sympathetic character here, and I agree that her betrayal was much more abrupt and shocking in the book, but it just didn't land for me. I agree that Fernald is much more fleshed out, interesting, and understandable than he was in the books, but I just can't get into any iteration of Fiona. In the books she's already at an eleven before Captain Widdershins disappears and she absorbs his status as captain and most irritating character traits, but here he was already missing so she was starting at her personal highest level of insufferable.

Also, she gave highly poisonous mushrooms to the most evil person in this fictional universe. Knowing the damage the medusoid mycelium goes on to do, it's hard to forgive her for that, imo. Even though she doesn't have the foresight that we have...like, come on, girl.

[Spartan Girl]

@helenamonster Word of advice: don't keep comparing this to the book canon, because as you'll find out in the next two episodes, they're changing quite a bit. But to be fair, most of the canon was never confirmed because Handler always had to be so fucking vague.

Loved Sunny's "I despise you" to Mr. Poe.

And I'm fine with Lemony getting to interact with Kit and the kids. Those scenes were great.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 1/3/2019 at 10:38 AM, helenamonster said:

In the books, the kids are the main characters and there are no scenes that take place that don't have at least one of them in them, except for Lemony's long asides. But when you're talking about a movie or tv show, the actors playing the kids are relatively unknown and it makes sense to cast Olaf with an A-lister who by their status demands more focus.

On top of that, filming with three children as the main characters means they are limited about how many hours they can shoot. I don't know when they finished shooting, but currently Malina is only 15 and Louis just turned 17. Actors aged 9-15 are only allowed to work 5 hours per day on school days and 7 hours per day on non-school days. Actors aged 16-17 are allowed to work 7 hours per day on school days and 8 hours on non-school days. Because of these limitations, shows with child actors have to work really carefully to schedule shooting and maximize the amount of time that everyone is on set.

Related story: when My So-Called Life cast Claire Danes in the lead role, she was only 13 which forced the writers to expand the other characters' roles/storylines because they couldn't shoot scenes with Claire 8 hours a day. Most of the other actors playing teen characters (Rayanne, Ricky, Sharon, and Jordan Catalano) were already 18.

So for that reason, it's not surprising that Count Olaf was given more screentime in this series, even before taking into account that it was NPH.

[Camera One]

11 hours ago, helenamonster said:

Penultimate Peril Part 1

but doesn't make sense from the perspective of Lemony following the Baudelaires. In the books, it is assumed that he is only just behind them (probably in the location they just were, for instance at Uncle Monty's when they're at Aunt Josephine's). The big piece of evidence that holds this theory up is that in one book he hides a letter to Kit.  Also, if he actually meets the Baudelaires at the Hotel Denouement, why does he have to start all over? Haven't watched part 2 yet, so does he not get the whole story at the Hotel and therefore has to retrace their steps? 

That's really interesting.  I didn't realize that in the books, Lemony was following closely behind them.

I just watched Penultimate Peril Part 1.

I thought this was an extremely strong episode - the best this season by far and maybe surpassing much of the second season.  The humor from the book really translated very well onscreen.  Their spying in the hotel was intriguing and mysterious, and it was a nice twist that Kit wasn't attached to Ernest at the beginning, but the never-mentioned Dewey.   The clock striking "wrong" was exactly as I had imagined it in the book, and of course it was fun to see all the cameos, though I wish there were more.

The actor who played Frank/Ernest/Dewey was awesome.  He was perfectly ambiguous with each encounter with the Bauldelaires.  

Though Kit and Dewey/Frank really threw the children into a horrible situation by being so ambiguous.  Why did Dewey have to lead them out in the open to stand beside a pond?  It would have been better for everyone if the Baudelaires never came to the Hotel in the first place.

Two things I didn't like - in the book, I felt the fighting over the harpoon gun was more ambiguous/accidental with the firing.  In this episode, it seemed like the Bauldelaires carelessly let it fall to the ground.  I also didn't appreciate them showing the murder of Larry the Waiter.  

The second half of this book was so frustrating to read, so I don't have high hopes the adaptation would be any less rage-inducing.  

Quote

On top of that, filming with three children as the main characters means they are limited about how many hours they can shoot. 

That's possible, but they could also have stretched out the filming even if it took more money.  "Anne with an E" also stars underaged actors and the actress playing Anne is in most of the scenes.  To me, the most probable reason for so much Count Olaf is they were in love with the bold and audacious show-stopping villain.  At least it wasn't as blatant as in the Jim Carrey movie.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Camera One

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

That's really interesting.  I didn't realize that in the books, Lemony was following closely behind them.

I am not sure that is 100% true. It was probably what the author was trying to go for, but while I can't remember the exact details there was at least one time where Lemony mentioned things that happened many years after the Baudelaires.

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

Two things I didn't like - in the book, I felt the fighting over the harpoon gun was more ambiguous/accidental with the firing.  In this episode, it seemed like the Bauldelaires carelessly let it fall to the ground.  I also didn't appreciate them showing the murder of Larry the Waiter.  

Yea I agree fighting over the harpoon gun was a better way to do it. If I recall one of the kids even had their finger on the trigger. Seemed to make them a little more responsible than just dropping it. I also thought that killing Larry was surprisingly brutal even for this show.

I did think that Olaf's break up with Esme was awesome though. Both actors did great with that.

[Camera One]

Quote

Yea I agree fighting over the harpoon gun was a better way to do it. If I recall one of the kids even had their finger on the trigger. Seemed to make them a little more responsible than just dropping it. 

I just re-read that scene from the book and it turns out the Baudelaires did drop the harpoon gun.  I just didn't like how it seemed like Violet and Klaus just let it drop.  In the book, it said the gun slipped out of their hands and fell to the floor.  In the book, Olaf was also more at fault since he pushed the gun into their hands when he saw people were coming.  

[helenamonster]

Penultimate Peril Part 2:

Absolutely loved the melancholy reprise of "That's Not How The Story Goes." In many ways The Penultimate Peril is the end of the series as we know it, since The End so radically changes the formula and just seems to exist in a completely separate universe from the rest of the story. I have heard great things about the last episode so while I'm sad to see this adaptation end, I am looking forward to watching it.

So it seems they still left the fate of most of the secondary characters vague. I always figured Justice Strauss was for sure kindling, since she was on the roof, but given she was the only person left in the hotel who knew the fire was real, it makes sense that she'd hoof it out of there. I wonder if they'll ever give confirmation on the fates of any of the other characters.

Loved the scenes at the opera, and Morena Baccarin was a great pick for Beatrice.

On 1/5/2019 at 2:21 PM, Spartan Girl said:

@helenamonster Word of advice: don't keep comparing this to the book canon, because as you'll find out in the next two episodes, they're changing quite a bit. But to be fair, most of the canon was never confirmed because Handler always had to be so fucking vague.

You're totally right, but after having finished part 2 it appears that it actually doesn't contradict any established canon. Lemony starts to document the lives of the Baudelaires after he learns who they are and they disappear from the hotel. His impetus for tracking them still stands, as does him writing what happened before knowing their fates (and the fates of some others) in The End.

There was always speculation that Lemony was the cab driver in PP, and I liked that it was formally established as canon while still making sense with what we know about Lemony. If Lemony had actually caught up to them--as in, met them at the hotel after he'd been tracking them for 11.5 books--he would of course introduce himself and tell them whatever he could to get them to come with him. Lemony being the taxi driver only makes sense if he doesn't know everything yet--it's the only good reason for letting them stay.

16 hours ago, Camera One said:

That's possible, but they could also have stretched out the filming even if it took more money.  "Anne with an E" also stars underaged actors and the actress playing Anne is in most of the scenes.  To me, the most probable reason for so much Count Olaf is they were in love with the bold and audacious show-stopping villain.  At least it wasn't as blatant as in the Jim Carrey movie.

You can have the guardians of child actors sign waivers to extend filming time if necessary (source: I work with child actors younger than the ones who play Violet and Klaus for whom that has been requested when shoot schedules get thrown out of whack, usually due to weather), and the length of time children can work is dependent upon SAG rules as well as child labor/performer laws in whatever municipality they are filming. This series filmed in Vancouver, which I've never had to deal with (only super familiar with local laws for New York, California, and Massachusetts). I think the two older kids have still gotten pretty significant screen time, not to mention how long it must take to shoot some things due to the complexity of a lot of the scenes. I doubt the baby ever goes over her time, though, you can see they shoot as much without her as possible and only insert her when absolutely necessary.

[Camera One]

27 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

I think the two older kids have still gotten pretty significant screen time

I agree.  This has been one of the best adaptations of any book series I've watched, in terms of faithfulness to the original source.  I still have Part 2 and the final episode to watch, but thus far, I'm impressed they have made additions and changes while still keeping the basic plot intact.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Camera One

[Spartan Girl]

I'm glad they left out Mr. Poe's sanctimonious self righteous "You ought to be ashamed of yourself speech" to the kids after Dewey's death. That was the one part of the book that made me almost throw it out the window in rage. Like, you have the fucking nerve to jump to conclusions and judge them after letting them done so many times? Fuck you.

Loved the trial scene, especially Olaf calling out the useless adults that failed the Baudelaires. Olaf might be a horrible person but he's never pretended to be otherwise -- at least not that well.

And LOL at Olaf's incredulousness that Esme had the chance to poison everybody and instead just got them to literally eat crow. Even he can't handle how stupid the adults are on this show.

The opera flashback has come under controversy from book fans because they thought the book implied Olaf's dad wasn't an accident but an actual hit job. Never mind Handler never gave us any explanation or details about that night, other than the implication that the parents killed Olaf's parents, the fans are still seething anyway.

Whatever. I loved the flashbacks. Kind of weird to see a younger less-horrible Olaf so happy with Kit

which sets up their moment in The End

. Morena Baccarin is PERFECT as Beatrice! And who would have thought Patrick Warburton would pull off such a romantic speech?

So Lemony started chronicling the Baudelaires and search for them because he failed to get them out of the hotel? Sounds about right. Although it was their choice to stay. Would it have been better if they ran?

[Kel Varnsen]

Watched Penultimate Peril pt 2 tonight. Loved how well the child actors played it, especially during and after the trial and how they finally realized that they were on their own and couldn't count on anyone.

The boat going off the roof was really well done. Loved that they made it one of those fancy infinity pools.

Also count me in as someone who likes that they clarified what caused the schism. And I really liked seeing Lemony interact with people.

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

And LOL at Olaf's incredulousness that Esme had the chance to poison everybody and instead just got them to literally eat crow. Even he can't handle how stupid the adults are on this show.

Would it even be possible to poison people like that with the medusoid mycelium? As soon as you open the diving helmet you are dead. 

Also as far as the conversations during the opera:

Spoiler

Does Esme and Beatrice talking about Gregor Antwhistle's research with respect to the sugar bowl suggest that inside the sugar bowl is a way to produce a cure medusoid mycelium? I had seen some suggestions of that online after i finished the books.

Oh and back to The Slippery Slope, I loved how Lemony actually talked about the water cycle. He brings it up multiple times in the book. My daughter would always get annoyed when he would and I would always make her read those to annoy her more. Then the best part was a few months later she actually learned about the water cycle in school.

[Camera One]

I've always loved the Water Cycle bits in "The Slippery Slope" so I was happy it included, though they could have overplayed it more by making it clear Lemony wanted to use it to put the audience to sleep.

Penultimate Peril Part 2

I didn't find this episode as strong as the first part.  As with most adaptations, once there is deviation from the source material, it weakens if there isn't a convincing reason for it and I wasn't convinced by the need to have Klaus making the mistake of putting Olaf on the stand, and having him poison the opinions of the audience in the courtroom. 

I suppose it did provide an opportunity for the whole Night of the Opera event to be clarified, but I'm sure they could have found another way to do that... heck, make the final episode a two-parter like all the other books and explain it there. 

I also didn't like that they had Beatrice murder Olaf's father, to push the oft-used (especially of late) "lesson" in TV shows and movies that no one is truly good and everyone has a bit of evil in them.  I don't buy that Esme, Kit, Olaf and Lemony were all dear friends and then Olaf and Esme became cold-blooded murderers. 

I was also hoping for more cameos in the courtroom scene.  I know it would have been tough to get everyone back for an episode, but there were a number of supporting characters who would have been fun to see again.  Heck, Olaf's troop and the carnival freaks could have appeared when the elevator doors open en route to the roof.  

Having said that, there were a lot of things they did do right.  Everyone walking around with blindfolds on was hilarious, especially when Poe encountered that statue of the elephant and said it was a snake.  The judges of the high court sitting so high up because they were taking it literally was funny as well.  I liked Justice Strauss and how she did fight for the Baudelaires, though Jerome's role seemed to have been diminished.   How Lemony came to devote his life to tracking down the story of the Baudelaires was also a nice touch, though he could have just asked Justice Strauss.  I'm glad she was clearly seen to be safe at the end, but it might have served the story better if she hadn't followed the Baudelaires as well, though that was sweet.  I enjoyed hearing the song reprise at the end.  Visually, they did a great job with this book, especially with the upside down reflection of the hotel in the pool, though I imagined the pool to be a lot bigger.

Spoiler

I expected to see what Kit was up to with the Quagmires and Fiona/Fernand intercut with the events at the hotel (since that had been their strategy in previous episodes), but I guess it also made sense to just keep the story focused on one location.  Maybe we'll see those events in flashback form next episode.  

3 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I always figured Justice Strauss was for sure kindling, since she was on the roof, but given she was the only person left in the hotel who knew the fire was real, it makes sense that she'd hoof it out of there.

Loved the scenes at the opera, and Morena Baccarin was a great pick for Beatrice.

I was afraid since she was on the roof and you can't use the elevator that she was trapped.  I feared a scene where the building would collapse.  Thank goodness they didn't go so dark.

I used to like Morena Baccarin until her character was ruined in "Gotham", so I didn't like Beatrice all that much in the flashback, sadly.

Quote

since The End so radically changes the formula and just seems to exist in a completely separate universe from the rest of the story. 

I re-read it last week, and I actually thought it did conform to the same general formula.  I'm still disappointed we're only going to get an hour for it.  Hopefully, it won't disappoint.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Camera One

[Spartan Girl]

15 hours ago, Camera One said:

I used to like Morena Baccarin until her character was ruined in "Gotham", so I didn't like Beatrice all that much in the flashback, sadly.

Kind of funny that this is the third time she's played a love interest that either been fridged or turned into a total bitch (never saw Firefly).

[angora]

Stayed away until I finished the season, but kept track of my episode thoughts while I watched.  Let's see if it all fits in one post!

The Slippery Slope 1

• Like the flip of the Freaks chant.  Clever bit!
• The Hook-Handed Man bonding with Sunny is so adorable - I love it.
• “Is it safe to eat raw toast?” is one of my favorite lines from the book.  They’re so evil but so dumb!
• Is that Richard E. Grant and Beth Grant as The Man with a Beard But No Hair and The Woman with Hair But No Beard?  Nice.
• Kit congratulating her unborn child on the early hang-gliding lesson was sweet.
• I laughed at the Snow Scouts calling themselves “basic.”  That’s an adjective that’s changed a bit since the book was written!
• Nice that Sunny’s language development is coming along, as per the books.

The Slippery Slope 2

• The burnt-down VFD headquarters is a great set.  I love the eye motif everywhere.
• I’m glad they kept the bit about Violet’s moment of privacy with Quigley halfway up Mount Fraught.  What a sweet moment.
• Presley Smith is so precious, I can’t even.  When she tied her hair up in a ribbon and said she’d invent a way out?  I DIED from cuteness.
• I liked Lemony Snicket’s lines about mentors and how he tied it in with Count Olaf’s evil mentors.  I also laughed at the flashback where Olaf complains about a secret organization’s hidden tunnel being full of signs everywhere.
• Nice foreshadowing, alluding to Kit
  Spoiler

  as Olaf’s former associate

   

• “I don’t have time to care about late-stage backstory!!”  Love it!
• Awesome image of the Queequeg periscope coming out of the ice at the end!

The Grim Grotto 1

• Interesting to have Captain Widdershins already out of the picture and Fiona manning the Queequeg on her own.  I didn’t really like how immediate and persistent the “Violet vs. Fiona” stuff was. Also, Fiona was the one who originally added “or she” to the “he who hesitates is lost” motto, so it doesn’t feel fair to have Violet be the one to complain about it.
• I’ve always loved Lemony Snicket’s lines comparing sadness to an enormous fire.
• OMG, Sunny winking at Phil!  I love it.
• The tentacled sub looks awesome!  So good. I also got a kick out of Esme’s octopus outfit.
• “I’m so excited I could chop someone’s arm off!”  “I still have two!!” Oh, Phil.
• So many great visuals.  I loved Fiona’s triangular glasses, the Herman Melville portraits on the sailors’ uniforms, and the luminous look of the Medusoid Mycelium.  (For a non-sci-fi/fantasy series, this series still must’ve been fairly expensive to make, given the stunning production design with completely-new sets and costumes every two episodes.)
• “You know, boss, most subs have more than one crew member.”  “Well, most sailors have more than no hands.” Count Olaf is so terrible, I love it.
• OF COURSE a VFD sub has a toddler-sized diving suit - perfect.

The Grim Grotto 2

• “The Great Unknown!”  “I hear it swallows you alive!”  “I hear it’s a metaphor for death!”  Love!
• Nice job tying together the Hook-Handed Man/Fernald’s family history and his recent bonding with Sunny in The Slippery Slope to sort-of bring him back into the fold.  I thought they did a good job with that plot overall - between the sort of questions he asked, observations he made, and near-reveals Count Olaf conveniently interrupted, that turn of events was foreshadowed well.
• The hair-ribbon decoration around Violet’s birthday cake was so sweet.  Even in an episode without a lot of Sunny, she still makes me smile.
• Loved Violet’s line, “We didn’t lose our family; we only lost our parents.”

The Penultimate Peril 1

• I’ve always loved The Penultimate Peril:  the returning characters, the introduction of Kit Snicket, the Dewey Decimal System set-up of the hotel, the confusion of not knowing who to trust (VFD really doesn’t give the Baudelaires ANY help, huh?), the lovely Dewey Denouement, and coming to a head with the Baudelaires questioning whether they’re really noble or wicked.
• I laughed at Lemony Snicket’s advice to spare ourselves from the tragedy to come by dropping our streaming devices in a pond.
• Charles left Sir and is with Jerome now!  Awesome!
• Great visual of the tentacle of the sub waving as Fernald and Fiona escaped, and I love this exchange between Olaf and Esme:  “Hooky’s DEFECTED.” “...You mean because he doesn’t have hands?” They’re so awful.
• More of Olaf being terrible?  Pointing out how he used “procured” when posing as Jacques Snicket “even though a perfectly-normal word would do” just to show what an insufferable know-it-all Jacques was.
• I like that they gave Violet the lines about “tomboy” being used to insult girls whose behavior people find unusual.
• Sunny trying to copy the signal Larry Your Waiter gave her was too adorable for words.  Is it weird that one of my favorite parts of this show probably isn’t wholly aware that she’s in it?
• “Are you Frank or Ernest?”  “I am.” Love it! I enjoy Max Greenfield as the Denouement triplets, but years ago, I got it into my head that Lee Pace would be perfect as the Denouements, and I’ve never been able to shake that.
• I like the Baudelaires encouraging discord between Olaf and Esme - that fight between them by the pond was really good.
• Interesting to bring Lemony Snicket into the story proper now.  I really liked the emotion behind the scene of Kit telling him that the three children at the hotel were the Baudelaires.

The Penultimate Peril 2

• I like the running gag throughout this story of Olaf thinking triplets are Ernest when they’re not.  Also, telling Frank, “There are still two of you! What’s the big deal?”
• The visuals of people trying to get around in the blindfolds were great.  I loved Mr. Poe finding the “snake” statue by the Indian restaurant, and I’m so glad they worked in Sunny’s “Scalia” line about the literal interpretation not making sense!
• Side note - when Mr. Poe was “leading” them through the hotel, it really stuck out how tall Louis Hynes has gotten.
• I’m a little torn on the flashbacks.  On the one hand, I feel like we shouldn’t know TOO much about what happened back then, but I do like getting the glimpses, and Morena Baccarin as Beatrice is neat.
• Also - Lemony using some of the lines from the “I will love you” paragraph from The Beatrice Letters!  I’ve always adored that letter, and it’s so cool that they included it, especially my favorite line, “I will love you as a battlefield loves young men.”
• “I think the stairs are this way!”  “I think they’re THIS way!” “Well, I don’t like to argue, so let’s compromise by standing still right here.”  Ha!
• I was a little bummed that we didn’t get Dewey telling the Baudelaires they were noble enough in the last episode, so I was glad they gave their verdict as “innocent enough” after the trial got away from them.  It also led nicely into Count Olaf’s monologue in the laundry room, with the lines about never being noble enough for VFD or wicked enough for his mentors. NPH was so good there.
• Lemony Snicket asking Justice Strauss to keep that photo of the Baudelaires was really lovely, and I liked how they ended it, with the reprise of “That’s Not How the Story Goes” from season 1 and the montage of all his research/photos.
• Really curious now to see what happens with “The End.”  The fact that it’s only one episode suggests that they might be changing it a fair amount (although I don’t know how long it is,) which I’d be all right with.  I’m not against “The End,” but there are certainly other possibilities.

The End

• Two episodes probably would’ve felt like too much for this story, but I think the one we had could’ve been just a bit longer.  In the first half, it felt like the plot didn’t have much room to breathe - an extra 10 minutes or so probably would’ve worked for me.
• Even if it’s still a weird way to end the series, I liked it, probably more here than I did reading it (it probably helps that I’ve had more time to get used to it, hehe.)  In particular, I think the emotionally-resonant parts hit a little harder for me, like the Baudelaire parents giving their children the antidote in the book but the children nearly running out of time to get it, and I enjoyed the quick snapshots of characters like the Quagmires, Fernald-Fiona, and so on.
• Great Sunny moments, as usual.  I loved her telling Count Olaf that putting him in a birdcage was karma, and she had some delightful reaction shots.  I have no idea how they got Presley Smith to be so wonderful in this, but I don’t care. She was just magic as Sunny.
• Side note:  she did her own dialogue this season, right?  Looks like a lot of it was still dubbed in (the sounds don’t always match the mouth movements,) but Tara Strong wasn’t credited with her voice this season, so maybe Presley recorded the lines afterwards?
• Great line from Ishmael:  “As a decent person, I never presume someone’s gender…”
• I liked getting a little more about who Ishmael was and where he fit within VFD.
• NPH was so great in this show.  I laughed at loud when he tried to say, “Well, well, well,” to the Baudelaires with that gag in his mouth, and he really sold that last scene with Kit.  I also liked his confrontation with Ishmael where he talked about how every parental figure he ever had either let him down or died.
• More from The Beatrice Letters!  Lemony Snicket getting that letter in his motel room at the end was so sweet.

What a fabulous series.  It's just everything I could have wished for.  Terrific dialogue, amazing sets/costumes, a host of great guest actors, and of course, wonderful leads.  Malina and Louis did a great job, NPH nailed every aspect of Count Olaf, and they got my favorite character (one Sunny Baudelaire) exactly right.  And all tied together with Lemony Snicket's morose narration!  Just fantastic.

Edited January 8, 2019 by angora
adding spoiler tag

[Kel Varnsen]

Just watched The End and it was pretty great. I was impressed that they condensed the longest book into a single episode and still hit all the story points and added an ending.  Plus I love how just like in the book they spoil their own big Beatrice reveal a few minutes earlier.

Also impressed by how well it worked even with the cheesy green screen backgrounds. And I think I like the more clarified less ambiguous ending. Also I did appreicate that as soon Olaf ate the apple his complexion got really good.

Also back to Penultimate Peril pt 2, I loved Olaf's line about how VFD wasted time with all their stupid codes and pretentious literary references and couldn't actually do anything. I think it was probably at that point that the orphans realized they were on there on and expecting VFD to save them was pointless.

[angora]

Oh man, I wrote up that long post and still forgot something I wanted to mention.  From The End, I liked how Ishmael emphasized that he formed VFD to fight figurative fires as well as literal.  It makes more sense why they have so many secret codes and disguises and why their members include so many poets/ballerinas/inventors/cartographers/theatre critics/etc.