S03.E09: The Present

[RedVitC]

6 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

 I don't feel like they even really like each other that much. They seem to just be super comfortable with each other because they've known each other so long. They have very little chemistry to me. I keep being surprised they're a couple. Oh, that's right, I think, they're together now.

 

My opinion on this is probably already obvious, but I personally think it's pretty clear how much they like each other. I think they have wonderful chemistry and their scenes are often highlights for me (and the way they look at each other is A+). Not to be corny, but some of those scenes I feel in my heart. I've definitely teared up over how beautiful certain moments between them are. I'll just leave it at that before I start writing an essay on Barry and Iris ;). I guess the eye of the beholder and all that :)

[Grace19]

Best episode this season.

I love HR, I know I'm in the minority. I just can't seem to hate any character being played by Tom on this show.

Wally is so adorable this episode, I enjoyed his scenes wit HR. I think there is a possibility he's the one to betray them.

Cisco and Caitlin's friendship is so heart-warming, glad that she was the one to help him.

Barry/Iris scenes were so beautiful, Grant and Candice do have a beautiful, unforced, natural chemistry. I think the second half of the season is going to focus on them, especially with Barry trying to change the future, I hope Iris also have a hand in saving herself. I am no worried, they are not killing Iris off permanently, I actually welcome that this might give her a long arc this season. If Iris gets lost in the future that would be great and create exiting possibilities for the writers to take the show.

I love how they writers used her job to help team flash find out about Julian.

Julian is a good addition to team flash, but I don't think he's done being Alchemy, though there is a foreshadowing that Cisco might end up being Alchemy too.

I have nothing against Barry trying to change the future, its not written yet, unlike the past which was already set, they are not the same thing. Its obvious that Barry will be the one with a fate worse than death, either from thinking Iris is dead, or being trapped in the speed-force or both.

I jut hope Joe is not the one to die.

The second half of the season is going to be interesting.

[catrice2]

More than lack of chemistry it is the writing. They have everyone on the show act like high school or college students. They even had Joe acting that way about dating Camille...like a little boy unsure, not a man that admittedly may have been nervous about dating again after a long time, but it was more juvenile.  I say it until I am blue in the face, but they were doing an ok job with "The Flash" and Iris in the first season.  There were a couple of scenes that were somewhat sexy..I even liked the scene with Barry and Linda (?) the girl from the newspaper.   Given the opportunity I think they can do better. I can't even remember Iris and Eddie.  He was so boring I slept through most of their scenes. 

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

More than lack of chemistry it is the writing. They have everyone on the show act like high school or college students. They even had Joe acting that way about dating Camille...like a little boy unsure, not a man that admittedly may have been nervous about dating again after a long time, but it was more juvenile.  I say it until I am blue in the face, but they were doing an ok job with "The Flash" and Iris in the first season.  There were a couple of scenes that were somewhat sexy..I even liked the scene with Barry and Linda (?) the girl from the newspaper.   Given the opportunity I think they can do better. I can't even remember Iris and Eddie.  He was so boring I slept through most of their scenes. 

Even though I love Barry and Iris and their chemistry, I do wish they'd heat it up a bit.  I think it comes down to direction.  In S1, for the scenes you mentioned, they had David Nutter.  He is AMAZING at bringing out the heat with couples - AMAZING.  I really miss his influence on the show.  They need to bring him back to add the heat.  CP and GG say they barely get any direction in the script about those scenes - so clearly the director needs to nudge more or GG/CP need to just add it themselves.  If there's barely any direction - ADD IT YOURSELVES!  LOL.  Seriously - you have the entire fandom's permission!

Also - I just realized HOW Savitar must escape in the future.  He said that Barry doomed him to eternity.  I think he clearly meant Barry doomed him to the SpeedForce.  When Jay suggested they throw the stone into the SpeedForce, he said it was "eternity".  I would go into comics here, but I don't think it's necessary.  I think some future version of Barry somehow trapped Savitar in the Speed Force, by separating him from the Philosopher's Stone, which is clearly the source of his power.  Kinda like how (in Lord of the Rings) Sauran was separated from The One Ring and defeated - but not destroyed.  But without the Ring, he couldn't come back to full power yet.  He couldn't take corporeal form.  Come to think of it, this was kinda the point of HP and the Philosopher's/Sorceror's Stone too - Voldemort needed it to come back fully in corporeal form.

I think it's the same with Savitar - he cannot come back from the Speed Force without the Philosopher's Stone.  He needs it.  That's why (just like Sauron when someone puts on the ring) Savitar "speaks" to people who are vulnerable, to compel them to FIND the stone for him and then open the box and give him a window/portal to enter our world from the SpeedForce.  

I think what Savitar needs to 100% escape the SpeedForce - is the Philosopher's Stone and dangit - Jay and Barry JUST gave it to him by throwing it into the Speed Force, where I'd bet my life Savitar is trapped.

To defeat Savitar forever, they have to destroy the Philosopher's Stone - where's the Lake of Fire in Mordor when you need it?

[KirkB]

 

14 hours ago, phoenics said:

I think what Savitar needs to 100% escape the SpeedForce - is the Philosopher's Stone and dangit - Jay and Barry JUST gave it to him by throwing it into the Speed Force, where I'd bet my life Savitar is trapped.

I think you're right, or at least on the right track. And I love the irony of them causing the very thing they were trying to prevent.

It's just too bad Barry doesn't know anyone who can fly and could probably have chucked the stone into the sun. Because even if that didn't destroy the thing it would make it pretty damn hard to retrieve.

Edited December 12, 2016 by KirkB

[waving feather]

I like the idea of Iris and Barry as a couple but I'm not into them like I thought I would be. I think that's because subconsciously I still can't get over them growing up as brother and sister. I don't think I could ever date someone who I grew up together with. How weird it must be for Joe.

[catrice2]

Maybe it is just me, but I never got the idea that Iris and Barry grew up as brother and sister. It was made pretty clear that they were best friends, and that Barry never thought of Iris as a sister, but as a potential love interest.   Additionally in Season 1, before all the time travel, Joe made it very clear that he knew that Barry had a thing for Iris, suspected it was worth pursuing, and was 100% behind that.  He did not seem to be concerned or  upset about it at all. 

We live in a world where fathers are marrying their actual adopted daughters ( I am looking at you Woody Allen), so I don't know that it is strange that Barry can have feeling for someone he is not related to.   I think the confusion is that the show has made it clear that Barry thinks of Joe as a surrogate father, therefore some fans automatically read that as he thinks of Iris as a sister.  I think it was firmly established that Barry does not think of Iris as a sister, and she always said he was loved like family, not that she thought of him as a brother. 

Once Linda came on the scene and jealousy reared its ugly head, it was clear Iris did not think of Barry as a brother, but she had never considered the possibility of anything else. 

[Trini]

21 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Maybe it is just me, but I never got the idea that Iris and Barry grew up as brother and sister. It was made pretty clear that they were best friends, and that Barry never thought of Iris as a sister, but as a potential love interest.  

Plus, they both spent more years of their childhood NOT growing up together in one household.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Flash Roasts Chestnuts On An Open Fire

With Savitar nipping at his nose.

[KirkB]

Damn, he really DOES look like one of Michael Bay's Transformers, doesn't he?

[phoenics]

23 hours ago, KirkB said:

Damn, he really DOES look like one of Michael Bay's Transformers, doesn't he?

Megatron.  Totally.  

[Hook75]

On 12/6/2016 at 9:21 PM, bettername2come said:

So can we assume that per Savitar's prophecy:

Cisco's going to turn on the team (Caitlin not the bad one in the vision). 

Iris is going to die (per Barry's trip to the future)

Barry suffers a fate worse than death (vanishing in the Crisis)

Overall I liked it. Tell me, what set did they redo for that apartment?

I think Wally will end up dead.

[AudienceofOne]

I think Wally is Savitar. 

[Airraz0r]

In regards to Savitar's prophecy:

One person will betray: I am thinking it's either Wally, Cisco, or H.R. because for me Caitlin is way too obvious at this point( unless her hand is forced).

One shall fall: Iris is too obvious in my book, so look for the least obvious such as either Joe or julian.

A fate worse than death: right now I am thinking it's Barry because his future self put Savitar in the speedforce & he wants to return the favor.

 

Your thoughts ?

[legaleagle53]

7 hours ago, Airraz0r said:

In regards to Savitar's prophecy:

One person will betray: I am thinking it's either Wally, Cisco, or H.R. because for me Caitlin is way too obvious at this point( unless her hand is forced).

One shall fall: Iris is too obvious in my book, so look for the least obvious such as either Joe or julian.

A fate worse than death: right now I am thinking it's Barry because his future self put Savitar in the speedforce & he wants to return the favor.

 

Your thoughts ?

Just that "fall" doesn't necessarily mean "die."  It's possible to "fall" in other ways.  One can "fall" from grace or "fall" in the sense of "succumb to."  If that's the case, then I can see Caitlin "falling" to the dark side and permanently becoming the one thing she's feared the most:  her Earth's version of Earth-2's Killer Frost.

Edited December 18, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Trini]

With Savitar's prophecies, I think they're vague enough that it could almost be anyone.

• Betrayer -- I still think HR is shady, so he's on my list for this. It could be Caitlin because of the prophecy in "Killer Frost". Cisco or Wally I think are less likely, but possible.
• "One will fall" -- This one I'm most unsure about because of what "fall" could mean. Would a character die? Get moved off the team? The show? Maybe someone loses their powers? Turns villain? I don't really have any solid guesses for this one, but HR, Caitlin, and maybe Joe are the most expendable team members.
• "Fate worse than death" -- Now this one I think relates to the Speed Force, so I'm guessing something happens to either Wally or Barry for a season-ending cliffhanger. Maybe they get stuck in the Speed Force or in another dimension or timeline.

Then there's the future scene with Iris/Savitar/Flash: I think the fact that they showed the entire death scene means that it will NOT actually play out that way in the future. (Besides, I don't think they will kill off Iris - at all.) Savitar might kill someone else, or Barry makes a sacrifice.

[phoenics]

I think it will be Joe or HR or Julian who dies (falls)

Wally will get trapped in the speed force (he doesn't have a lightning rod to get him out like Barry does - Barry's lightning rod is Iris)

Cisco will end up betraying them

That's my guess.

[AudienceofOne]

What this show needs is more dead parents.

I suppose they could mix it up and do a dead sibling but in this case that would also involve killing the love interest and that's unlikely.

[phoenics]

56 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

What this show needs is more dead parents.

I suppose they could mix it up and do a dead sibling but in this case that would also involve killing the love interest and that's unlikely.

Wally and Iris are lovers?  Because those are the only siblings on this show.

I don't want them to kill Joe - but this is the CW we are talking about.  

[Trini]

Joe's not dead until the wedding. Nope. Plus, with all the ridiculous stuff they're doing to keep Tom C. on the show, I don't think JLM is going anywhere soon.

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

Joe's not dead until the wedding. Nope. Plus, with all the ridiculous stuff they're doing to keep Tom C. on the show, I don't think JLM is going anywhere soon.

Well, we have Harrys to spare though.  Even if I like HR.  Maybe it will be Julian since he started this whole thing (if you ignore what Barry did).

[Airraz0r]

About that betrayal. Would it take some incentive or motivation or willingness for that to occur ?

This is what I should've meant to ask first of all. It's because the flash forward vision b/w KF & Vibe in a future episode where so many people assume one thing, not realizing before & after.

[zannej]

When they first said they were going to throw the Savitar box into the speedforce, I was facepalming. They didn't even do anything to secure it to make sure it stayed shut. What if it just opened up while flying through the speedforce? What if it traveled through time and ended somewhere else where some unwitting person could open it? Or what if another speedster found it and opened it?

Now, if it was able to manipulate people and haunt them with visions of dead family members, I can sort of understand why they didn't want to keep it near them. Although, apparently it was able to call to Julian even though it was way far away from him. So, giving it to the Legends might cause problems because it might be trying to manipulate Sara with visions of Laurel, or Mick with visions of Snart (although, maybe that *is* what was going on with Mick seeing Snart), or Ray with his late fiance.

Anyhoo, if it had been up to me, that box would have been wrapped tightly shut in gorrilla tape, encased in concrete, and put in to some sort of structure in such a way that it would not be easy for someone to just go open it up without having to tear down an entire structure. Just bury that thing deep deep down or go drop it in the deepest part of the Marianas Trench or something (I mean, the people in charge of trash removal in Guam just dump the trash in there-- at least they were doing that in the 90s-- so it's not like people would be wanting to go digging it up).

I wonder if Julian's turn-around had to do with being lonely and taking comfort in that he could finally tell someone the truth and not have to live a lie. And I also wonder why Interpol or something isn't looking for him if he ran off and they thought he was a murderer. It might explain why he dropped his surname and went with just Albert.

I can sort of see why Cisco was able to be manipulated because it was appealing to his emotions and his desperation to see his brother again and have a do-over. Studies have shown that when the part of the brain that uses emotion is active, it shuts down critical thinking and vice versa.

I love Tom Cavanagh but HR is my least favorite incarnation thus far. I miss Harry.

As for the stuff Savitar said, I wonder if HR is really the Randolph Morgan guy and he's using the facial tuner to make people see him as Wells and when he tuned the thing so they saw the Wells face, he was really tuning it so they would see the fake face while other people saw his real face. Or maybe neither face is his own and he could be horribly disfigured.

Anyone else remember when HR was telling the story of how the supervillains on his world all got together to face the Flash? He never said how it ended did he? I wonder if the villains took over and it was one of the reasons he wanted to get out of there.

I hope they start to lighten Cisco up a bit more. He's been waaaay too much of a downer this season. I know in real life that some people grieve for a long time-- myself included-- but this is a show meant for entertainment.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 12/7/2016 at 9:49 PM, Trini said:

If we did get a love scene, at least Grant would know where to put his hands - ;-)

Watching that gif repeat puts me in a silly mood.... not that I can blame the guy, butt its like a magnet switches on that pulls his hand to her rear.  Then the nod just after, his way of saying "I'm feeling cheeky."

Edited June 2, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36