Carl: Troubled Boy-Man Or Man-Boy Trouble?

[Omar G.]

They seem to be making Carl like a normal teen right now rather than the completely fucked-up bag of nerves he would likely be if all those things happened to a real kid. 

So, he's resilient, then?

[kj4ever]

I'm at the beginning of season 4 right now, and even though I'm pretty sure it makes me a horrible person I've been hoping for Carl to be a Walker snack for most of the series...

[kikismom]

If a kid goes through too much, they can grow up with all feelings numbed--which is the beginning of a psychopath.

I was glad to see

when Carl wanted to help Eyeglasses Guy; I think that showed compassion, and possibly meant that he'd been troubled by Rick and Michonne leaving Orange Backpack Guy to his horrendous fate.
But then, psychologists also say that too much interest in risk-taking, adrenaline boosting choices can be a bad sign.Carl's always been a boundary-challenged kid.
At least he isn't Lizzie-level of sang-froid.
But after the loss of his mother, the seeming death of his baby sister, being nearly raped, and now locked in the boxcar, I do wonder if he still thinks the comfort of spiritual faith is for idiots.

Edited July 8, 2014 by kikismom

[Persnickety1]

I'm at the beginning of season 4 right now, and even though I'm pretty sure it makes me a horrible person I've been hoping for Carl to be a Walker snack for most of the series...

I have an intense dislike for Carl and have since the beginning.  I've stopped trying to figure out just why he evokes that wholehearted dislike and just roll with it.

 

I was hoping he was going to slip off of that roof whilst eating that economy sized can of pudding right into a waiting throng of walkers, with only the sharp tin can lid to protect himself.

 

Mini Persnickety has warned me that she strongly suspects Carl will be around to the bloody end of the series, still wearing his hat and never being where he is supposed to be.  

[kj4ever]

Oh yeah I think he will be there until the end too.  I don't think Rick would make it past Carl's death without going totally nuts.

 

So I just finished the series and my Carl hate is still in full effect.  Why he went with Michonne like he was afraid/mad/who knows instead of Rick....I mean yeah, Rick bit out someone's jugular, but I think most parents facing that situation - their child about to be raped - would not think twice about doing that if they thought of it, apocalypse or not.

 

When he was walking to the box car I starting saying "shoot him!" to the TV as my boyfriend looked at me like I was a monster...lol  We are going to have to deal with the little brat for the duration...

[dannymoon]

I like Carl. I didn’t always, certainly in season 2 I wanted to reach through my screen and strangle him. In Season 3, he started to mature a bit and became even useful at times (getting Hershel bandages, killing walkers, rescuing Tyreese & Sasha’s group). I would expect bratty early-teenage moments from a kid his age, and he certainly had them in both seasons 3 and 4, but at least I was no longer yelling “Dammit Carl!” every single time he was on my screen.

Why he went with Michonne like he was afraid/mad/who knows instead of Rick....I mean yeah, Rick bit out someone's jugular, but I think most parents facing that situation - their child about to be raped - would not think twice about doing that if they thought of it, apocalypse or not.

I agree that a parent might not think twice about that, as they shouldn’t in that circumstance, but I don’t think Rick’s actions (the bite, gutting the pedo) were the issue for Carl. Michonne too thought that Carl was afraid of Rick, but I think Carl was just confused. He didn’t know what to say to his father because he heard the end of Rick’s conversation with Daryl, and he doesn’t know how to live up to his father’s expectations. Carl doesn’t feel like a “good man.” He feels like he doesn’t deserve to be placed on any sort of pedestal by his father. He feels damaged and like he said, just another monster.

Edited July 11, 2014 by dannymoon

[ghoulina]

I agree that a parent might not think twice about that, as they shouldn’t in that circumstance, but I don’t think Rick’s actions (the bite, gutting the pedo) were the issue for Carl. Michonne too thought that Carl was afraid of Rick, but I think Carl was just confused. He didn’t know what to say to his father because he heard the end of Rick’s conversation with Daryl, and he doesn’t know how to live up to his father’s expectations. Carl doesn’t feel like a “good man.” He feels like he doesn’t deserve to be placed on any sort of pedestal by his father. He feels damaged and like he said, just another monster.

 

Yea, I didn't see Carl as being afraid of his father, but of himself. I think he probably enjoyed seeing his attackers killed the way they were too much, and that made him question himself and think of himself as a "monster". 

[kj4ever]

I like Carl. I didn’t always, certainly in season 2 I wanted to reach through my screen and strangle him. In Season 3, he started to mature a bit and became even useful at times (getting Hershel bandages, killing walkers, rescuing Tyreese & Sasha’s group). I would expect bratty early-teenage moments from a kid his age, and he certainly had them in both seasons 3 and 4, but at least I was no longer yelling “Dammit Carl!” every single time he was on my screen.

I agree that a parent might not think twice about that, as they shouldn’t in that circumstance, but I don’t think Rick’s actions (the bite, gutting the pedo) were the issue for Carl. Michonne too thought that Carl was afraid of Rick, but I think Carl was just confused. He didn’t know what to say to his father because he heard the end of Rick’s conversation with Daryl, and he doesn’t know how to live up to his father’s expectations. Carl doesn’t feel like a “good man.” He feels like he doesn’t deserve to be placed on any sort of pedestal by his father. He feels damaged and like he said, just another monster.

That is an excellent point and I hadn't thought of it like that.  I think one of the downfalls with watching a show so quickly is it is hard to see growth in characters and I am used to him being a  brat who is never where he is supposed to be.

[Boofish]

I think Carl wants to be seen as a bad ass and part of Rick's core "ride or die" team (Glen, Maggie, Michonne and Darryl. I see Sasha becoming a member of said group as well) Every last one of them has proven they would take a bullet (or walker bite) for Rick, wouldn't even hesitate. Carl has done some pretty brave (and pretty annoying) things but he's way too selfish and teenagery to be ride or die just yet; it's all about him and what he THINKS he is capable of doing. The only time I took his side over Rick's (and Hershel) is when he killed that annoying kid that was part of Tyrese and Sasha group. I was with him - why take the chance. You came in my house and tried to kill me and now you expect mercy "BYE FELICIA"

[ghoulina]

I think Carl definitely proved himself last season. When the walkers finally broke through the fence and Rick and Carl had to mow them down with machine guns - that was definitely a "ride or die" moment, IMO. There was even that tiny instance where Rick was out of bullets and Carl tossed him another magazine and basically saved his life. In the aftermath, Carl took care of Rick and led walkers away from the house, etc. etc. Does he still make stupid, immature mistakes? Yes. But I definitely think we've seen a shifting in their positions and we'll see a lot more of Carl taking care of Rick and helping him out as the series goes on. 

[Boofish]

No denying the kid is an asset but I will be glad when he gets over the teenage angst. The only reason I wouldn't label him as "ride or die" just yet is because he comes across as too braggy and selfish. If you didn't see Carl take out that walker, fear not because he will find a way to bring it up in conversation. I guess in a way he is trying to show the group that is he a value adder. He needs too many pats on the back and praise. Props to him for being the only ZA kid who is not a complete burden

[kikismom]

I don't know; I thought he started very selfish as kid but has improved.

He wanted to save Eyeglasses Guy, who was a complete stranger.

[ghoulina]

I guess I'm just willing to give Carl a pass on his stupid teenage ways because he IS a teenager. I realize that in a ZA you have to grow up a lot faster. And I think in a lot of ways he has. But you can't change biology over night. And the brain of a kid his age just isn't equipped to make the most rational decisions all the time. I like having him on the show, and also enjoyed Lizzie and Mika, because it's interesting to see the ZA from the perspective of non-adults. 

[Boofish]

I will admit to tearing up at the end of Season 4 when I thought Carl was going to be the apetitizer. I even apologized to him (in my head) for all the times he got on my nerves and I wanted to feed him to a walker. I realized then I'm way too invested and didn't want any harm coming to the little fella

[kj4ever]

No denying the kid is an asset but I will be glad when he gets over the teenage angst. The only reason I wouldn't label him as "ride or die" just yet is because he comes across as too braggy and selfish. If you didn't see Carl take out that walker, fear not because he will find a way to bring it up in conversation. I guess in a way he is trying to show the group that is he a value adder. He needs too many pats on the back and praise. Props to him for being the only ZA kid who is not a complete burden

So much of this speaks to not only him being an only child, but today's everyone is important and gets a trophy mentality. 

 

Sounds like home wasn't exactly rainbows and puppies  pre ZA.  I didn't like Lori before she ever hit the screen based on Rick and Shane's conversation and her saying those hateful things in front of Carl.  Then you got the kind of Mother that takesa time out from making sure you are safe to have booty calls in the woods....A Dad that loses his mind every once in awhile....Well I'm kind of suprised he isn't more messed up than he is.

[kj4ever]

On rewatch I noticed something interested.  The kid that Carl guns down in the woods during the Govenor's raid?  He was leading everyone in the Tombs and looking like he quite enjoyed it, while everyone else (except crazy ass Govenor) looked like they were going to soil themselves.  Maybe Carl didn't make a bad call on that one, because the kid looked truly menacing in the Tombs.

[ghoulina]

I never noticed that, I'll keep an eye out when I marathon before season 5. But I never had an issue with Carl shooting that boy. His baby sister was right there and that boy was NOT putting his gun down. After all they'd been through, I wouldn't trust any of the Governor's people at that point. He had no idea the rest had run, he was just going on instinct. I didn't find it worrisome at all. 

[Boofish]

Only time I wanted to tell Hershel to basically STFU. Was this not the same kid and HIS DAD that was so gung ho to join the Woodbury Army and wanted to take the prison before Rick came back? Or do I have the wrong kid?

[kikismom]

Only time I wanted to tell Hershel to basically STFU. Was this not the same kid and HIS DAD that was so gung ho to join the Woodbury Army and wanted to take the prison before Rick came back? Or do I have the wrong kid?

Not the same kid.

Both were in the way though.

[ghoulina]

No, that was definitely a different kid, but I agree that that was the only time I got irritated with Hershel and wished he'd shut his trap. 

[Boofish]

I still crack up at "random black guy from Woodbury" when he says (paraphrasing) "Why are we fighting for a hole with half a dozen psychos living in it? Let them have it" Because upon reflection, Rick and his group are some bad ass psychos

[ban1o]

I thought Carl was completely justified in killing that kid. I mean, the kid was not putting his gun down. Who knows what he would have done? It's funny apparently Carl was trending on twitter when that moment happened. I don't think it was horrifying at all. I generally really like Hershel but I wanted him to just shut up at that moment. 

[kj4ever]

I've been rewatching some of the episodes that I did a hearty FF through while marathoning.  One thing that really stuck out to me is if Carl did not feel like Carl was doing something important, Carl would find a way to look important.  Every time he is ticked that his Dad won't let him do something Rick is always telling him "I need you here to keep them safe" or "you might be the last man standing you have to take care of them".

 

Is this only child syndrome rearing it's ugly head, or the way that his generation was raised to feel so self important, so everyone gets a trophy?

 

All I know is if I would have told my Mom or Dad "are you kidding me?" or "are you serious?" they would have shown me just how NOT kidding they were and how very serious I should take obeying them.

[ghoulina]

I think Carl just has a hard time navigating the ZA world. He is stuck in this odd child-man limbo. As I posted previously, he is just not psychologically able to mature any faster than normal, but he is expected to be able to do a lot of the things the grown ups do. And what child doesn't want to impress their father? I think that happens all the time, but the ways for a boy to prove himself to his dad in a ZA are going to be a lot more extreme.

[kikismom]

I've been rewatching some of the episodes that I did a hearty FF through while marathoning.  One thing that really stuck out to me is if Carl did not feel like Carl was doing something important, Carl would find a way to look important.  Every time he is ticked that his Dad won't let him do something Rick is always telling him "I need you here to keep them safe" or "you might be the last man standing you have to take care of them".

 

Is this only child syndrome rearing it's ugly head, or the way that his generation was raised to feel so self important, so everyone gets a trophy?

 

All I know is if I would have told my Mom or Dad "are you kidding me?" or "are you serious?" they would have shown me just how NOT kidding they were and how very serious I should take obeying them.

Nailed it.

Just watch him mouthing off to Carol, then he argues with Rick, then he leaves the inspiring father-son talk to go steal a gun from Daryl's saddlebag, goes from there to incite a walker in the creek into almost killing him, goes back and does not say a word.about the walker getting free from the mud and coming after him. When Shane discovers Carl has a gun and steals and lies, Carl only says "you aren't going to tell my parents are you?" Not sorry he did it, just worried he might have to own up to it. Says he should be allowed to walk around with a loaded gun and kill walkers because "I know how to take care of myself"

 

So they bring Randall and need to have a group conference, Carl is told to go with Jimmy. He says "I want to listen", Told again to go, he walks right in to the doorway and has to be told a third time. The men bring a noose to get Randall in the barn, and there is little spy Carl "I want to watch." Rinse and repeat.

 

At no point in any of this do his parents do anything about it. The child Carl was obnoxious, and both parents are so comfortable with not knowing where he is or what he's doing for hours at a time during the most dangerous disaster in human history that I feel letting Carl run amok was business as usual in the Grimes household.

[kj4ever]

Probably one of my most favorite Carl scenes ever was when Michonne told him to "cut the bullshit and listen".  I think I actually whoo hoo'd because somebody finally got this kid to do as he was told.

[editorgrrl]

I like Carl. I didn’t always, certainly in season 2 I wanted to reach through my screen and strangle him. In Season 3, he started to mature a bit and became even useful at times (getting Hershel bandages, killing walkers, rescuing Tyreese & Sasha’s group). I would expect bratty early-teenage moments from a kid his age, and he certainly had them in both seasons 3 and 4, but at least I was no longer yelling “Dammit Carl!” every single time he was on my screen.

 

I hadn't even noticed I feel the same way until I read this. My "Dammit, Carl!" moments (or "CAAAAHHHHWWWRRUULLLLL!!," to quote the Southern Accents, Mostly Horrible thread) are few & far between.

Edited September 3, 2014 by editorgrrl

[CletusMusashi]

I guess the big question that's on all of our minds is: Will Carl continue his tradition of having a huge growth spurt before every season? Because I would love the premier to start out with Gareth looking into the car, doing a double take, and asking "Weren't you a foot shorter yesterday?"

[Tippi Blevins]

I've come to like Carl a lot over the series. I wanted him to become walker chow for most of the first three seasons, but I'm to the point now where I'm kind of annoyed there hasn't been more of him this season.

[AngelaHunter]

I feel sorry for the kid, although he annoyed the hell out of me during all the interminable (to me) "Where's Carl?" seasons.

 

He's going to grow up with nothing his parents ever had - no goofing around with friends, surfing porn on the net, going to school dances etc.  and not even any real memories of the pre-ZA.

 

I think it was another thread where I mentioned that if he survives, he's going to be a Mad Max-type character, tactiturn, anti-social and just drifting n the never-ending search for food and knowing only that the only thing that rhymes with "apocalypse" is "Taco-lips". Pretty grim future.

 

 

[kikismom]

I think it was another thread where I mentioned that if he survives, he's going to be a Mad Max-type character, tactiturn, anti-social and just drifting n the never-ending search for food and knowing only that the only thing that rhymes with "apocalypse" is "Taco-lips". Pretty grim future.

It's a stretch; but perhaps he could start calling Abraham A-six-pack-n-nips.

[Nashville]

I feel sorry for the kid, although he annoyed the hell out of me during all the interminable (to me) "Where's Carl?" seasons.

 

[RedheadZombie]

Carl irritated me in the early seasons, but I never wished harm on him.  I was uncomfortable when he killed the teenager, mostly because Hershel thought it was wrong.  Rick took Hershel's word and took Carl's gun away so they could focus on farming for a while.  I don't think he's a sociopath, that's Gareth and the Governor.  Carl has shown much empathy and I'm sure he would die trying to protect any of the group.

 

I really liked the episode when Rick was unconscious on the couch.  Carl was being a little shit and way over cocky, and I'm sure it was mostly to do with "losing" Judith.  But I did love how he left that house thinking he was a man, yet ended that episode knowing he was still a kid and he needed his dad.  Carl was really humbled and he probably needed it.  It broke my heart when he couldn't pull the trigger on what he thought was Walker Rick.  I know some found the episode boring, but I liked the journey Carl went on, and how it ended with Michonne at the door.

I think it was another thread where I mentioned that if he survives, he's going to be a Mad Max-type character, tactiturn, anti-social and just drifting n the never-ending search for food and knowing only that the only thing that rhymes with "apocalypse" is "Taco-lips". Pretty grim future.

 

I don't see that happening if Judith survives.  Maybe even if certain members of their current group survive. 

[editorgrrl]

Carl irritated me in the early seasons, but I never wished harm on him.

I really liked the episode when Rick was unconscious on the couch. Carl was being a little shit and way over cocky, and I'm sure it was mostly to do with "losing" Judith. But I did love how he left that house thinking he was a man, yet ended that episode knowing he was still a kid and he needed his dad. Carl was really humbled and he probably needed it. It broke my heart when he couldn't pull the trigger on what he thought was Walker Rick. I know some found the episode boring, but I liked the journey Carl went on, and how it ended with Michonne at the door.

That kid bugged the hell out of me for years, had that amazing episode (followed by spray cheese, Big Kats 'n' thangs with Michonne), then went MIA this season.

[AngelaHunter]

I want this one:

 

[Irishmaple]

I've liked Carl as a character for a while.  I found it interesting watching him try to force himself to grow up and then deal with the consequences when he realized he wasn't ready.  I hated watching him taunt that Walker in the farm swamp because it seemed like something that could go badly wrong as it did, for Dale, when Carl lost his nerve once the zombie got too close.  Carl was forced to remember he was still a scared kid, and he ran and then, like a kid, didn't say anything that could get him into trouble and Dale paid the price.  And then he shot Shane for trying to kill his father.  That's when Carl really started to grow up because he did it and it was hard and painful and he suffered for it.  As he did when he put his mother down.  After that, Rick tried to slow him down and I think that was a good decision, for as long as it lasted, but Carl's world had changed and he changed along with it.  I think he's emotionally healthier than Lizzie ever was, which says good things about Rick and Lori's parenting.  I also think he's more emotionally resilient than Rick and some of the other adults.  He has deep bonds to his biological family and to members of his group.  He's definitely ticking along with some antisocial personality traits but I see them as adaptive, things that will help him in the ZA world.  He kills Walkers and he will kill humans, if he feels he has to.  I think he's going to be fine, as fine as a person can be in that world.

 

I have a friend who reads and collects The Walking Dead graphic novels.  I've only ever asked him for one spoiler and it was Lori.  I needed to know that she was going to die because I disliked her so much.  Even when Carl was at his most annoying, I never asked for spoilers so he never bothered me as much as Lori.  That's kind of my barometer.  If I ask my friend for a character spoiler, I really want that character dead.  To date, Lori stands alone.  

[editorgrrl]

Chandler Riggs' voice has changed. People are speculating there'll be a time jump after the mid-season finale to age up Carl & Judith.

[mandolin]

I can't imagine they'd do a time jump purely based on Carl hitting puberty. For me, that just doesn't affect the "passage of time" question so much. I can overlook it.

[editorgrrl]

I can't imagine they'd do a time jump purely based on Carl hitting puberty. For me, that just doesn't affect the "passage of time" question so much. I can overlook it.

A time jump after the mid-season finale would also allow Carol and Eugene to heal, Fr. Gabriel to train with Carl and Michonne—and Rick to manscape?

[mandolin]

Yes, I'd accept a jump for those more easily. Heh. Especially the manscaping.

[kikismom]

Ah, yes. Remember the time-jump at the beginning of season 3?

When Lori's belly went from flat to huge, Herschel got a full beard and ponytail,

Carl grew a foot and a half and his hair went to mop-top.

But Maggie's hair only grew an inch, as did Glenn's, and Carol's, and T-Dawg didn't lose any weight.

 

When we come back in February, Rick and Daryl will be GQ'd, Maggie will have implants, Carol will--in a final wish--have donated her perimenopausal hormones to Glenn so he can develop facial hair and a temper, and Judith will be played by Honey Boo-Boo.

[kikismom]

[Tippi Blevins]

I really liked the episode when Rick was unconscious on the couch.  Carl was being a little shit and way over cocky, and I'm sure it was mostly to do with "losing" Judith.  But I did love how he left that house thinking he was a man, yet ended that episode knowing he was still a kid and he needed his dad.  Carl was really humbled and he probably needed it.  It broke my heart when he couldn't pull the trigger on what he thought was Walker Rick.  I know some found the episode boring, but I liked the journey Carl went on, and how it ended with Michonne at the door.

 

That's one of my favorite episodes, along with anything where Michonne is bonding with Rick and/or Carl. I think it's a really good balance of him being a kid and showing some maturity.

 

Right before they go into Terminus, Carl confesses to Michonne that he has bad thoughts and feels like a monster. He says he's not what his father thinks he is. Are they ever going to pick up on that again? There were times they could have taken the Lizzie path with Carl, but I think he's shown too much empathy to go that route. He's the one trying to tell his father they can still help people. His instinct when they find strangers in need is to try to help. Rewatching the scene where he kills that teen from Woodbury, I feel more sympathetic towards Carl than I did originally. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Hehehe...

 

[kikismom]

[kikismom]

That little clip on TTD from Andrew Lincoln said that Chandler shaves twice a day. I don't know if he was kidding but if true I wonder how Steven Yuen feels about that!

[kikismom]

This is why Coral is hooked on videogames:

http://i.imgur.com/Eupt5B7.jpg

Edited April 8, 2015 by kikismom

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

This is why Coral is hooked on videogames:

http://i.imgur.com/Eupt5B7.jpg

 

Ah, the good ol' "joystick". 

 

Oh, to be young again.......

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

[CletusMusashi]

So is Carl going to start dressing like a pirate now? Cutlass, tricornered hat, maybe Michonne can help him shop for leather vests and white puffyshirts? He can give the old hat to Judith, since it magically changes size to fit anybody. She could use it to store acorns.