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S05.E04: Penance


Tara Ariano
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5 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

I absolutely found the anti-molecular compound stored in an aerosol can to be hilarious and completely ridiculous.  It's one thing if the compound is supposed to react with tile flooring material, but I think by the nonsense name it is supposed to eat through anything.  I mean, how is a compound that is supposed to eat through any material stored in that can - what's the container made out of?
Not to mention, the aerosol would release toxic particles into the air - so not good for breathing in!

Not to mention if it got on their skin as they were shimmying through the perfectly round hole.  It was just too absurd to exist and if it did, they should have died cause it ate through their lungs.  And if it eats through anything, does it ever stop eating through everything?  

Quote

Rewatching this scene again, what I got was Oliver knowing what he did wasn't exactly right and this is sort of him not really seeking forgiveness but trying to make Felicity understand (that maybe it's less about John and more about Oliver). And she knows it and she kinda gives her, well, not really approval but an OK, it's done, we'll figure it out from here. At least that's what the last GIF said to me. 

Yeah, I thought he was explain-apologizing-asking for forgiveness/understanding.  He wasn't there with his tail between his legs, but he also wasn't bragging about what he'd done.  I did get the "yeah, everything you said was true, but ..." vibe from him.

 It was a softening between them that was not something the show had to give us, but specifically wrote in.  They'd been at odds before he left and he didn't have to get her permission or approval, but he still wanted her understanding and yeah I'd even say he wanted her forgiveness even if he did what he thought was right.  They could have just as easily never addressed the conflict of opinion and moved forward, but nope, the show circled back to their connection.   

This is NOT how a show writes to kill a ship.  It's how they keep it alive during a long stall (probably including some detours into ports I don't approve of) 

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On 10/27/2016 at 7:51 PM, Angel12d said:

When Oliver says "I couldn't write him off" is that just implying that Felicity could? Because I don't think I like that implication at all. Or am I reading into things?

To the contrary I read it as 'just as I haven't written us off', hence her look in return.

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3 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

To the contrary I read it as 'just as I haven't written us off', hence her look in return.

Hmm. Maybe? IDK. I wouldn't mind that but personally I didn't get anything Olicity about it tbh. In fact, this episode showed how much SA is trying to rein it in with the natural chemistry/heart eyes, IMO. I know many people saw heat in that final look but I thought SA was trying very hard to be subdued, hence the reason I feel like he came across pretty emotionless in this episode. Or maybe emotionless is too strong. Reserved?

Edited by Guest
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1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

It was a moment but I didn't really feel like 'Wowsa, that chemistry!' like I have done before.

For me it was an important moment because Oliver isn't like that with anyone else.  His eyes were soft, his expression vulnerable and he was all there in the moment, needing things to be alright between them.  He was rushed and brusque and all business for most of the episode.  Even with John they had an urgent time table but it felt like for just a moment, the world slowed down and the heart eyes came out.  Maybe not at full wattage but still there.    

Edited by BkWurm1
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For me it worked as the cathartic moment after the narrative conflicts were solved. It was one of those moments that put the characters back in good graces with each other, which is something that has always worked really really well for O/F. Episodes they end still in a conflict usually feel exhausting/upsetting; when they make up in the end, it puts everything back in its right place.

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15 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Hmm. Maybe? IDK. I wouldn't mind that but personally I didn't get anything Olicity about it tbh. In fact, this episode showed how much SA is trying to rein it in with the natural chemistry/heart eyes, IMO. I know many people saw heat in that final look but I thought SA was trying very hard to be subdued, hence the reason I feel like he came across pretty emotionless in this episode. Or maybe emotionless is too strong. Reserved?

We are in the minority but we got the same impression, LOL.

He was IMO less "angry" in that scene with her than he was in most of the episode (except with Diggle) but not as soft, as "adoring" as he was in other scenes in the past. The ones where I see the heart eyes. He showed a bit more emotion to me, but still very little.

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2 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

We are in the minority but we got the same impression, LOL.

He was IMO less "angry" in that scene with her than he was in most of the episode (except with Diggle) but not as soft, as "adoring" as he was in other scenes in the past. The ones where I see the heart eyes. He showed a bit more emotion to me, but still very little.

I saw that as him being hesitant and nervous about her reaction because it mattered a lot to him that she would accept/understand why he felt he had to do it.   

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2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I saw that as him being hesitant and nervous about her reaction because it mattered a lot to him that she would accept/understand why he felt he had to do it.   

I understand. I wish I could see it like that because it would make me enjoy it more, LOL. There's hope for the next time..

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I don't necessarily see the Olicity of it in terms of a relationship.   But I do think Ollie looks to Felicity as kind of a beacon of what is right, in a sense.   If she understands why he chose to do something and isn't too upset about it then what he did wasn't that bad. 

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Quote

The one who is really getting short-changed is Evelyn.  As Bkwurm1 said, she's really only there to give Wild Dog the opportunity to speak his POV.

The problem with Evelyn is the same problem they had when they introduced her last year - the actress has the charisma of a damp tea bag. The material is poor but the actress is doing nothing to elevate it. She's just... there. I imagine the writers are seeing that and wondering what the hell to do with her.

Wild Dog in contrast is annoying as hell and Curtis is toast - there's no way he's vigilante material. But at least the actors are working with the material.

Ragsman remains ridiculous and I hate the concept but gee the actor is good.  He really made this episode, which I did enjoy.

Weirdly, Felicity made sense to me this episode. She was off her game because of Havenrock and so her position on things was wonky. She didn't want Oliver to rescue Dig because she empathised with the need to be punished but also because she was thinking that doing the wrong thing for the right reasons was how Havenrock happened in the first place. And all the conversations between her and Rory were amazing.

Edited by AudienceofOne
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I turned my TV on and this is on right now.  I popped into the scene where Felicity has gone to try and convince Rory to return to the team after she's revealed the truth about her involvement with Havenrock.  (While Oliver is off with Lyla breaking Dig out of prison).  This is the fourth episode of the season, which makes this only Rory's third episode.  But he's already sooooo much more well rounded and interesting than the dog or Evelyn.  (Or Curtis).  Naturally his back story makes him very compelling but just the little things like when Felicity goes to talk to him and he's in this industrial looking space where he makes sculptures.  It's not even made a big deal of but it just lets the audience in on who this guy is even while making him more of a mystery.   

This is also one of the episodes where the Dog is calling Felicity "Blondie" and she's not having it.  Oliver rescuing Dig is still not that interesting but it was interesting to watch what Chase is doing and how he's reacting to the team now that

Spoiler

I know about him being Prometheus.

 He was really interested in Rory aka Ragman so he's probably lucky that he didn't get dragged into Chase's final plan.   

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I saw the rerun on my TV's guide and it annoys me that the description is "Oliver joins Lyla on a secret mission for Diggle while Felicity opts to stay behind" since they gave her 0.3 seconds to wrap her head around breaking Diggle out and that led into who was for and against the plan.  I know it's just a short description for the episode and there's only so much they can put in it, but it rubs me the wrong way. I think it's the use of "opts." 

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Happily, by the time I tuned in, that annoying part had already come and gone.  I do like how in the end when he returns, he feels he has to explain his actions.  They had great non verbal conversations before the fifth episode of the season.  After it, it's just a massive painful emotional drought.  .  

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5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

After it, it's just a massive painful emotional drought.  .

Maybe SA felt that he had to have Oliver distance himself from Felicity

Spoiler

since she was in a relationship with Billy

?  I don't think anyone has explained it.  But on-screen, it's just a massive fail from 5x05 until they hit 5x10.

I do think that Rory was the best of the new characters.  Partly, as you said because they rounded him out more but they also wrote Evelyn with a lot of backstory (sadly all in s4) and we knew a lot about Curtis, his job, his marriage, his creativity and his mugging.  Wild Dog only got fleshed on in 5x13 and by then it was far too late since he'd been annoying me as well as Felicity for most of the season.

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(edited)

504 (Penance) - Oliver Queen’s voiceover intro:
Oliver (voiceover): "My name is Oliver Queen. After five years in hell, I returned home with only one goal - to save my city. Today I fight that war on two fronts: By day, I lead Star City as its mayor. But by night, I am someone else. I am something else. I am the Green Arrow."

504 (Penance) – Oliver and the new recruits take down a criminal, but Rene doesn't listen to Oliver's orders:
Rene (over comms): "Come on, Mr. Olympia. Hustle up."
Curtis (over comms): "Mr. Olympia's a bodybuilding competition. I was - am an Olympic athlete."
Rene (over comms): "Yeah? They give out gold medals for effort now?"
Curtis (over comms): "Very funny, and it was a bronze medal. Why is that so hard to remember?"
Oliver (over comms): "Quiet. Every time you're out in the field, you could die. Don't forget that, don't lose focus. Overwatch, do we have the target?"
Felicity (over comms): "Headed toward the east exit, closing fast."
Oliver (over comms): "Do we know what he stole?"
Felicity (over comms): "Not yet, but I have a feeling we're about to find out."
Oliver (over comms): "Only if we snag him in the cordon. Artemis, be ready."
Evelyn (over comms): "Does this mean I actually get to shoot someone? I mean, not, you know, shoot someone shoot someone. I just meant that more than -"
Oliver (over comms): "We know what you meant. You wait for him to reach the cordon, then engage. Do you copy?"
Evelyn (over comms): "Copy."
Rene (over comms): "Copy."
Curtis (over comms): "Copy."
Rene (over comms): "Still a lot of ground to cover. Rag's should be here."
Oliver (over comms): "Overwatch, do you have a 20 on Ragman?"
Felicity (over comms): "I texted him, like, 10 times and then 10 more, but Nada."
Curtis (over comms): "Maybe he's sick. I mean, the flu's been going around, and by the looks of those rags, he does not hit the drycleaner very often."
Rene (over comms): "Hola, muchacho."
Oliver (over comms): "Wild Dog, that is Artemis' shot."
Evelyn (over comms): "I got him"
(Rene shoots at criminal.)
Evelyn (over comms): "What the -?"
Curtis (over comms): "I got him."
(Curtis tackles criminal but gets taken down. Oliver shoots an arrow into the criminal's leg. Rene, Oliver and Evelyn all converge at Curtis' spot.)
Oliver: "What did I say? That was Artemis' shot!"
Rene: "Dude was getting away."
Oliver: "No, he wasn't. And you missed. You were in the Navy. You should know better."
Rene: "I was dishonorably discharged, actually."
Oliver: "You think that I don't know that? Deliver that and the evidence to the Anti-Crime Unit and then go home."
Evelyn: "What about tonight's training session?"
Oliver: "You're taking a few days off." (Leaves)
Evelyn: "Nice going... again."
Curtis: "How are we supposed to get this buy to the ACU? Call an Uber?"

504 (Penance) – Rory tells Oliver that he's quitting the team:
Rory: "Oliver."
Oliver. "The op's over, and you've been MIA for days. It's not acceptable. Get it together immediately, or you're off the team."
Rory: "That's why I'm here, to tell you in person. I'm off the team."
Oliver: "Feels pretty quick to throw in the towel. I thought you were just getting started."
Rory: "I was, and then Felicity told me the truth about her role in Havenrock. You didn't know she told me."
Oliver: "Did she also tell you that she was faced with an impossible choice?"
Rory: "I completely realize that. I get it wasn't her fault, but that doesn't change the fact that every time I look at her, I see the faces of my family, of everyone I ever loved. Felicity is a constant reminder of what I lost, and as long as that's true, I'm sorry. I can't be here."
Oliver: "What about your father? I thought he was the reason you were doing this."
Rory: "I'll have to find another way to honor him."
Oliver: "I'm sorry to lose you."
Rory: "I'm sorry to go. Thank you for everything."

504 (Penance) – Oliver and Lyla decide to break Diggle out of prison, despite Felicity's objections:
Felicity: "Did my comms deceive me, or did you actually let the recruits take an S.C.P.D. victory lap?"
Oliver: "It's never a victory lap. They're rough around the edges, but they're making progress, except Rory, who was waiting for me upstairs to say that he quit. He said you spoke with him about Havenrock."
(Lyla enters) 
Felicity: "Hey. How you holding up?"
Lyla: "She doesn't know?"
Felicity: "About John being in prison? Oliver told me. I'm so sorry."
Oliver: "What Lyla means - we are gonna break him out."
Felicity: "Of military prison?"
Oliver: "Yep."
Felicity: "Wait, and then what? John is just a fugitive for the rest of his life?"
Lyla: "Better than being punished for something he didn't do."
Oliver: "Lyla, I've been studying the schematics that you hooked me up with. This would be a lot easier if we had John's cooperation."
Felicity: "You don't have what now?"
Lyla: "Apparently, prison is more appealing to John than coming home to his own wife and child."
Felicity: "Okay. So wait a minute. Not only do you want to commit multiple felonies and make John a wanted man for the rest of his life, he doesn't actually want you to?"
Lyla: "Can I speak with you for a minute?" (Pulls him aside)
Oliver: "Yeah."
Lyla: "Is she going to be a problem?"
Oliver: "No, but... I was counting on her being a help."
Lyla: "Maybe I should pull a few of my agents in on this."
Oliver: "Lyla. If this - if this has your fingerprints on it, then both of John Jr.'s parents will be fugitives."
Lyla: "There is something that might actually make this not impossible. I just read a briefing memo on a new piece of tech, an anti-molecular compound. I was kind of hoping Felicity could help us get our hands on it."
Oliver: "Lyla, whatever it is, I'll handle it."

504 (Penance) – Oliver steals a piece of tech from Palmer Tech:
Felicity: "What are you doing?"
Curtis: "Reviewing the S.C.P.D. evidence log on what we kept from getting stolen from Kord Industries last night. 6,800 processor."
Felicity: "So?"
Curtis: "Exactly. Kord manufactures bleeding-edge tech, military-grade weapons, I mean, all kinds of city-threatening items. Why would Church send a guy to steal a computer chip that you could buy from any Tech Village store?"
Felicity: "Well, who cares? Everything's on its way to lockup now."
Curtis: "Because knowing what Church's endgame was is like - it's like this thing that's still out there, lurking. You all right over there? Because I've been doing a lot of talking, and you haven't, which is very weird."
Felicity: "Ha! You know how you told me to tell Rory about Havenrock?"
Curtis: "Yeah. Oh! He's not sick with the flu, is he?"
Felicity: "No. He's just sick of working with me."
Curtis: "Did you try talking to him?"
Felicity: "There's not a lot I can say that would make him feel okay about his entire family being killed. (Computer beeps) Incoming. Another robbery in progress at - Palmer Tech! I got to call Oliver."
Curtis: "Or maybe don't, and we'll just let the get robbed. It will serve Mr. Dennis right for firing us."
Felicity: "He fired me. You quit."
Curtis: "Because he fired you. Same thing."
*  *  *
Oliver (whispering on phone, at Palmer Tech): "What's up?"
Felicity (on phone): "Hey. There's been a break-in at Palmer Tech. Are you still in the area?"
Oliver (whispering on phone): "Uh... yeah. I can look into that."
*  *  *
Felicity: "How was Palmer Tech? Before you answer, you should consider that your phone has GPS, and if you were thinking about lying, I do admire your consistency."
Oliver: "I wasn't thinking of lying to you. I wasn't looping you in after you made it clear you didn't approve of the decision."
Felicity: "John is the one who doesn't approve of the plan."
Oliver: "John's not thinking clearly."
Felicity: "Well, I bet Roy is, and if he were here, I think he would tell you that life on the run is no life at all, and I seem to remember you not being on board with that plan."
Oliver: "Roy was making a bad choice, just like John is making a bad choice. He is currently locked up in a military prison for a crime he didn't commit."
Felicity: "To atone for a crime that he did commit, and what does it matter? John doesn't want to leave. It is not your choice. Why do you always have to go and make decisions for him?"
Oliver: "He already abandoned the team. I am not gonna let him abandon his family."
Felicity: "Is that what this is about? John leaving the team?"
Oliver: "This is simple. I am gonna stop John from making a decision he will come to regret. You should consider doing the exact same thing with Rory."
Felicity: "You do realize that me having a chat with Rory is completely different than you committing half a dozen felonies, right?"

504 (Penance) – Thea meets the new recruits:
Felicity: "I didn't think he'd actually hit you guys."
Rene: "You know what really sucks?"
Curtis: "Realizing that in all those training sessions where he was kicking our respective asses, the whole time he was taking it easy on us."
Evelyn: "Yeah. Remind me to never, ever get on his bad side."
Curtis: "I think that would imply that he has a good side, and, you know, Felicity, could you please explain to me again how you thought this was all gonna go down?"
Felicity: "Well, I thought if he saw you guys all united against his crazy plan, he'd reconsider."
Curtis: "Right, because Oliver Queen is known for thinking things through and taking input from others."
Felicity: "Right."
Quentin (entering with Thea): "Wow. The ever-expanding club house."
Rene: "And who are you?"
Thea: "I'm Thea, Oliver's Chief of Staff."
Curtis: "And also his sister."
Felicity (to Quentin): "Don't tell me Oliver beat you up, too?"
Thea: "Heh. Ollie did this?"
Felicity: "Object lesson, long story. It's fine. Don't ask. What happened to you?"
Quentin: "Tobias Church happened. That evidence that you guys recovered from Kord Industries - modified to go boom."
Felicity: "He wanted it to be put into lockup."
Thea: "And he wanted to raid it. One-stop shopping for weapons."
Felicity: "Including those RPGs that he took from Ameritek if this report's right."
Rene: "We got to find out what he's planning to do with those weapons - because it ain't nothing good."
Evelyn: "This is a really bad time for Oliver to be out of town."
Felicity: "Yeah. I just tried him. He's gone dark. Why don't you guys hit the streets? We want to figure out what Church is up to before it's too late."
Curtis: "You sure?"
Felicity: "Mm-hmm."
Evelyn: "I don't think Oliver would want us out there without him."
Felicity: "Right. Well, Oliver forfeited his opinion when he left."
Curtis: "Okay, but this is an all hands on deck situation, rag-covered hands included. Just saying."

504 (Penance) – Felicity talks to Rory:
Felicity (entering): "Hey. Is this - uh, is this a bad time?"
Rory: "Do I want to even ask how you found me?"
Felicity: "Heh. I feel like that's a trick question."
Rory: "Sorry about the mess."
Felicity (looking at his sculptures): "Wow! These are amazing."
Rory: "You spend enough time with other people's castoffs, you find ways to make something useful out of them. My father always used to say that. He owned a pawn shop."
Felicity: "On Southmoor Road, right?"
Rory: "How'd you know?"
Felicity: "Last week, you told Oliver that you had joined the team to honor your father. You quit. I wanted to find out more about what you were giving up. Your father was a Gulf War veteran. 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines. But that's not what made him a hero, was it?"
Rory: "No."
Felicity: "He wore your rags, his father before him, whose name was also Rory. That's a big legacy to live up to. Mine is going to be what happened to Havenrock. I'm gonna have to live with that every day for the rest of my life, knowing that I cannot fix it and knowing that it's not the last mistake that I'm ever going to have to make."
Rory: "I still don't know if I can -"
Felicity: "Work side by side with someone who's a reminder of what you lost. I understand. Just like you're a reminder of what I did, and I - I know they're not the same thing. We both want the same thing, to be able to live with what's happened, so that we can move forward." (Cell phone beeps) It's Curtis. I am so sorry, and we could really use you."
Rory: "I can't right now. I'm sorry."
Felicity: "If you change your mind, well, we're here."

504 (Penance) – Rory rejoins Team Arrow and helps the team when they track down Tobias Church:
Rene: "About time, Blondie. Can we go now?"
Felicity: "First of all, not my name. Second, were you able to locate Church on your recon?"
Curtis: "No, but street cams actually picked him up, so we know he's on the move. We just don't know where he's moving to."
Felicity: "We can't go after Church without knowing his endgame first."
Rene: "Sounds like an excuse to sit around and do nothing."
Felicity: "Not nothing."
Curtis: "You're cross-plotting Church's prior locations into a projection algorithm."
Felicity: "Hmm."
Rene: "You probably got beat up in grade school a lot."
Curtis: "And junior high."
Felicity: "Okay. Based on Church's route, I'm calculating an 86% likelihood he's going to 18 Mill Road."
Curtis: "Why does that sound so familiar?"
Evelyn: "Because we were just there to hand over Sergio."
Rene: "That's where the ACU's bunkered. Church is gonna take them out."
*  *  *
Curtis (watching monitor): "Church. At least we definitely know where Church is now."
Rene: "D'Angelo's right. We got to put him down."
Evelyn: "Against that? Without Oliver? No. We're sh - shorthanded as it is."
Rene: "You scared?"
Evelyn: "No, but I'm not stupid either."
Felicity: "Evie's right. I'm not sending you guys out there just to get slaughtered."
Curtis: "Thanks for the vote of confidence."
Felicity: "You saw what you're up against, okay? This isn't some drill where you take down a petty thug or drug dealer. This is real, okay, with real stakes. The three of you could die out there."
Rory (entering): "That's something we get to decide for ourselves, isn't it? I mean, I don't know about everyone else, but I didn't join this team to stay safe."
Felicity: "Okay. Why don't we take a vote? All those in favor."
Rene: "We're all gonna say 'yes,' Blondie."
Felicity: "God. That's not my name. Good. Okay. Go. Do not die."

504 (Penance) – Felicity and the new recruits save District Attorney Adrian Chase and the ACU from Tobias Church and his minions, but Rene gets captured by Church:
Adrian: "Hey. Is there another way out of here?"
Criminal: "Mind uncuffing me before they kill you?"
Rory: "Hey."
*  *  *
Adrian: "Hey. Hey. If that's for taking out the wall, the blast will kill us before we can get out. We're in too tight."
Rory: "Trust me."
Adrian: "Yeah, says the creepy-looking - What the hell are you anyways?"
Rory (over comms, standing against wall): "I'm in place. Blow it."
(Wall behind Rory explodes.)
Curtis (entering): "Sorry we blew up your building. Come on!"
*  *  *
Curtis (over comms): "Which way, Overwatch?"
Felicity (over comms): "Take a right at the end of that hallway. It should be a fire exit. If you go through there, you're home free. Easy."
Evelyn: "Not so easy."
Rene: "Rags, cover me."
Rene: "Go! Go, go!"
Curtis (gets hit in back by knife): "Unh!"
Rene: "Get him up."
Evelyn: "Come on."
Church: "I probably should just shoot you, but... but you've earned a little suffering."
Rene (to Evelyn): "Get him to safety."
Evelyn: "But -"
Rene: "Go!"
Evelyn: "C'mon."
(Evelyn takes off with wounded Curtis, while Rene faces Church and his minions. Rene gets taken down.)
Church: "Hey. Don't kill him. He may have his uses."
*  *  *
Evelyn: "We've got to go back for Wild Dog."
Rene: "Copy."
Rory (over comms): "Overwatch, Mr. Terrific is hurt. We could use some help."
Felicity (over comms): "Inbound. Hold on."
Quentin (driving up in van): "Get in! Where's the Wild Dog kid?"
Evelyn: "Still inside, fighting Church. We've got to go back for him."
Quentin: "No. Unless you all want to die, we've got to go now, now!"
Rory: "We can't just leave him."
Felicity (over comms): "You have to. Go."
Quentin: "Come on! Let's go."

504 (Penance) – Felicity is unable to locate Rene, and Oliver returns:
Felicity: "What is the point of having keyhole satellite imagery if you can't use it to find anybody?"
Rory: "I feel like I don't understand half the sentences you say."
Felicity: "What I'm saying is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot find Rene anywhere. (Accepts mug from Rory) And I was the one who told you guys to leave him behind."
Rory: "Sounds like another impossible decision."
Felicity: "Does that mean I'm supposed to get better at making them?"
Rory: "I'm saying you were right. If we're gonna do this, we can't let guilt swallow us up. I'll keep you from doing it, if you promise the same for me."
Felicity: "Deal."
Curtis (entering with Evelyn): "Ow! Ow! Ow!"
Evelyn: "So 'ow' then? Things have really fallen apart without Oliver, haven't they?"
Oliver (entering): "It's a good thing I'm back then."
Rory: "Was he waiting for an entrance line?"
Curtis: "Nope. He's just that cool."
Oliver: "I got your text. Have we found Rene?"
Felicity: "You get John?"
Oliver: "Yeah. He's fine. He's holed up at H.I.V.E. I couldn't write him off. And we are not gonna write off Rene. We're gonna find him, we're gonna bring him back... Wherever he is."

Edited by tv echo
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