Sex And The City - General Discussion

[ifionlyknew]

I read the Carrie Diaries and I don't remember her name being short for Caroline. 

No way do I believe Carrie was intended to be an anti heroine.  To this day I believe SJP doesn't see her that way.  

[RealHousewife]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

I also think a small part of her loved the drama because it kept her as the center of attention in her friend group.

Remember Carrie was annoyed she thought she'd get so much attention for having the orgasm of her life only to be outdone by Samantha, something like "Well ladies, I'm a lesbian."

Edited August 31, 2021 by RealHousewife

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

I read the Carrie Diaries and I don't remember her name being short for Caroline. 

No way do I believe Carrie was intended to be an anti heroine.  To this day I believe SJP doesn't see her that way.  

That's what some critics say but yeah there's no way it was intentional 😄

43 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Remember Carrie was annoyed she thought she'd get so much attention for having the orgasm of her life only to be outdone by Samantha, something like "Well ladies, I'm a lesbian."

Even Charlotte being proposed to by the man who just dumped her wasn't enough to deter Carrie making the night about her and her post-it note 😄

[T Summer]

4 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I read the Carrie Diaries and I don't remember her name being short for Caroline. 

No way do I believe Carrie was intended to be an anti heroine.  To this day I believe SJP doesn't see her that way.  

I'd be shocked if anyone here thought that anti-heroine BS was intentional... or if more than 2% of the viewing audience could be convinced to see it that way.

I don't even dislike Carrie or the actress who played her. They just way overdid the focus on Carrie once we get to know the 3 other women through her  in season one.

....and you can just tell the writers and producers thought every scream and every whiny outburst and every overly dramatic line read "I spent 40,000 thousand  dollars on shoes?" [hand on heart]... was pure gold.

Most of the time I find the show and SJP's work very enjoyable. The other actresses as well. That's why I'll watch just about anytime it's on cable and nothing much else is.

As an aside $3.2 an episode is just obscene!

...but sometimes as time went on, some of Carrie's performances took on an odd overblown overdone quality where the other principal's didn't. As has been said before, it's like the character was smarter and more sharply drawn in the beginning. Like  with the whole  "You're the Chrysler Building!"  spiel and  similar scenes we've discussed.

Edited September 1, 2021 by T Summer
clarity

[ifionlyknew]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Even Charlotte being proposed to by the man who just dumped her wasn't enough to deter Carrie making the night about her and her post-it note 😄

It did give us the clever line of "paper covers rock".  But Carrie being dumped being portrayed as more important than Charlotte getting engaged was just plain wrong.    I think I mentioned before I read that one of the writers or someone they knew did in fact have someone break up with them via a Post It.  I get it that is was a cowardly way for someone to break up with someone but I think Miranda's story of a guy telling his doorman to tell her he wasn't coming down, ever, was more cowardly.  

12 hours ago, T Summer said:

.and you can just tell the writers and producers thought every scream and every whiny outburst and every overly dramatic line read "I spent 40,000 thousand  dollars on shoes?" [hand on heart]... was pure gold.

I do wonder if Carrie's shrieks were in the script or was an acting choice she made.  

12 hours ago, T Summer said:

but sometimes as time went on, some of Carrie's performances took on an odd overblown overdone quality where the other principal's didn't. As has been said before, it's like the character was smarter and more sharply drawn in the beginning. Like  with the whole  "You're the Chrysler Building!"  spiel and  similar scenes we've discussed.

I do think SJP was the weakest actress out of the four.  The writers could give Samantha a ridiculous scene (like at Brady's birthday party when she pulls up her skirt to show Carrie what she did in reaction to finding a gray hair) and she sold it.   But there were plenty of what should have been run of the mill ordinary scenes with Carrie that were ridiculous.  Mostly because of what she was wearing.  Heidi on a picnic in Central Park comes to mind.

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

It did give us the clever line of "paper covers rock".  But Carrie being dumped being portrayed as more important than Charlotte getting engaged was just plain wrong.    I think I mentioned before I read that one of the writers or someone they knew did in fact have someone break up with them via a Post It.  I get it that is was a cowardly way for someone to break up with someone but I think Miranda's story of a guy telling his doorman to tell her he wasn't coming down, ever, was more cowardly.  

I do wonder if Carrie's shrieks were in the script or was an acting choice she made.  

I do think SJP was the weakest actress out of the four.  The writers could give Samantha a ridiculous scene (like at Brady's birthday party when she pulls up her skirt to show Carrie what she did in reaction to finding a gray hair) and she sold it.   But there were plenty of what should have been run of the mill ordinary scenes with Carrie that were ridiculous.  Mostly because of what she was wearing.  Heidi on a picnic in Central Park comes to mind.

the post-it seemed awful at the time but it is actually better than the "ghosting" that a lot of people do today.

At least she knew the relationship was hopeless and could move on. That was more than she could ever do with Big.

Quiet voice-I do love paper covers rock.

[ifionlyknew]

11 hours ago, qtpye said:

At least she knew the relationship was hopeless and could move on. That was more than she could ever do with Big.

She had to see things weren't working with Berger.  I've never been able to figure out if she was upset about him breaking up with her or that he did it on a Post It. I think she would have been upset regardless of how he did it but the Post It gave her a reason to be so overly dramatic about it.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

She had to see things weren't working with Berger.  I've never been able to figure out if she was upset about him breaking up with her or that he did it on a Post It. I think she would have been upset regardless of how he did it but the Post It gave her a reason to be so overly dramatic about it.

I always thought she was more upset that SHE didnt end things with Berger. She wanted to be the one to dump him, not the other way around. And I think (from what I remember) they had tried to work on things, and she had been vulnerable and they had sex and then he left the post-it? I think the double stings just from the circumstances.

[Ms Blue Jay]

32 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I always thought she was more upset that SHE didnt end things with Berger. She wanted to be the one to dump him, not the other way around. And I think (from what I remember) they had tried to work on things, and she had been vulnerable and they had sex and then he left the post-it? I think the double stings just from the circumstances.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!

Proof:

Miranda:  First of all, I thought you were gonna break up with him.
Carrie:  Yeah I was. And I should have but he said that he wanted to try to 'work things out'. A.k. a. leave in the middle of the night.

Now that you spell it all out like that, damn he really is an asshole.  LOL.  He shouldn't have slept with her first.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ifionlyknew]

33 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

And I think (from what I remember) they had tried to work on things, and she had been vulnerable and they had sex and then he left the post-it?

Yes.  Which is why I think she was being a drama queen. She hadn't even been with him that long.  . As such was the case with a lot of SATC I think Berger was good on paper and they should have worked as a couple but the writers made them not work. Which yes I understand that had to happen to get her to Alek and then back to Big.

Edited September 2, 2021 by ifionlyknew

[Scarlett45]

55 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!

Proof:

Miranda:  First of all, I thought you were gonna break up with him.
Carrie:  Yeah I was. And I should have but he said that he wanted to try to 'work things out'. A.k. a. leave in the middle of the night.

Now that you spell it all out like that, damn he really is an asshole.  LOL.  He shouldn't have slept with her first.

I do think Berger was a jerk. I don't think he went "oh one last bit of easy sex, let me break her heart", I just think he was a coward. I didnt mind Carrie being a drama queen about it for one day, it was only extra because Charlotte just got engaged. 

 

55 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Yes.  Which is why I think she was being a drama queen. She hadn't even been with him that long.  . As such was the case with a lot of SATC I think Berger was good on paper and they should have worked as a couple but the writers made them not work. Which yes I understand that had to happen to get her to Alek and then back to Big.

I think Berger probably never dealt with what happened with his ex Lauren. They lived together and she cheated on him, things ended and he got with Carrie right after. Add in his next book not doing well I can understand why that man was a bundle of insecurity, but that doesn't mean he should've taken it out on Carrie. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Berger probably never dealt with what happened with his ex Lauren. They lived together and she cheated on him, things ended and he got with Carrie right after. Add in his next book not doing well I can understand why that man was a bundle of insecurity, but that doesn't mean he should've taken it out on Carrie. 

Yeah, for all the smack I talk about Carrie, she really did try to be a good girlfriend to Berger.  She really messed up with making fun of his book, but it was totally unintentional and she was obviously just trying to be "cute" and show off how much she knows about fashion.  But man, wrong time.  

Berger had a lot of issues.  He definitely had anger towards Lauren and he was resentful that he wasn't successful in the way that "he" defined success.

If it was Big or Aleks or Aidan, they would celebrate Carrie's book (Aidan), show off her book (Aleks), or not really care either way (Big) LOL.  I can't remember right now, but did Carrie celebrate success when she was with Aidan?  I wonder how he'd be.  He was definitely great in a crisis though (the computer, Miranda's mother, Miranda's back, etc.).  

Edited September 2, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Scarlett45]

20 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

If it was Big or Aleks or Aidan, they would celebrate Carrie's book (Aidan), show off her book (Aleks), or not really care either way (Big) LOL.  I can't remember right now, but did Carrie celebrate success when she was with Aidan?  I wonder how he'd be.  He was definitely great in a crisis though (the computer, Miranda's mother, Miranda's back, etc.).  

I think Aidan would be sweet and supportive even if he didnt "get it". Being a furniture designer he understood the creative process. I think he wouldve been really proud of whatever Carrie wrote, and unlike Berger he was very secure in himself but not an arrogant like some people can be.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Aidan would be sweet and supportive even if he didnt "get it". Being a furniture designer he understood the creative process. I think he wouldve been really proud of whatever Carrie wrote, and unlike Berger he was very secure in himself but not an arrogant like some people can be.

That's true.  Carrie wore some insane, wild, attention getting outfits when she was with Aidan and he'd just make cute comments but not feel insecure.  

Like Rachel famously said about Ross, "It didn't bother me when he would flirt with other people.  It bothered me when he SLEPT with other people......"

Edited September 2, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I always thought she was more upset that SHE didnt end things with Berger. She wanted to be the one to dump him, not the other way around. And I think (from what I remember) they had tried to work on things, and she had been vulnerable and they had sex and then he left the post-it? I think the double stings just from the circumstances.

Yeah, I do feel sorry for her about that.

The guy we know will not work out but we just do not break it off because "on paper" it should work out.

I thought she was going to dump him the minute he insulted her hat.

[T Summer]

I never liked Berger and sort of felt like I was being unfair to him, but really what was there to like?

He's wasn't steller in the looks department... kind of a dweeb. He's mad insecure. He didn't know if he wanted in or out of a relationship and didn't know enough to chill out until he wasn't freaking out when his ex Lauren called. You're done when your don't feel anything.

AND he's so bad in bed you notice the M 1 11 buss outside making the stops?

Carrie should have skipped that whole chapter and just stayed pining away for Big. It's interesting isn't it? While he was the one she wanted and always went back to, in the interim she had a lot of... ahem,

 

relationships.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by T Summer
clarity

[Scarlett45]

9 minutes ago, T Summer said:

I never liked Berger and sort of felt like I was being unfair to him, but really what was there to like?

He's wasn't steller in the looks department... kind of a dweeb. He's mad insecure. He didn't know if he wanted in or out of a relationship and didn't know enough to chill out until he wasn't freaking out when his ex Lauren called. You're done when your don't feel anything.

AND he's so bad in bed you notice the M 1 11 buss outside making the stops?

Carrie should have skipped that whole chapter and just stayed pining away for Big. It's interesting isn't it? While he was the one she wanted and always went back to, in the interim she had a lot of... ahem,

 

relationships.

 

I thought Berger could be witty, and funny. He was probably the guy that would’ve made a good friend for Carrie. 
 

But you’re right, Berger wasn’t that anything to write home about in any department. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Berger is cute, funny, witty.  He's like Carrie in those ways.  He's like a male Carrie except more privileged, and more bitter about the world.  He's like Carrie with edge, like the dark side of Carrie.  He even had 3 friends like Carrie.  LOL.  What if Carrie had family money but no column?  What if Aidan had cheated on *her* instead of the reverse?

I really like Ron Livingston.  I think he's attractive and I think he gave a lot of depth to Berger.  I think he made Berger a bit more interesting than the writers wrote him.

Though the writers did a great job on their own too.  Because of both the post-it note and telling Miranda "He's just not that into you", the character of Berger left an iconic stamp on the show.   Aleks didn't do anything that memorable.  I don't even think Aidan did.  An entire book was written based off "He's Just Not That Into you".  An entire movie was made.

Carrie could be carelessly blunt with people too.  Carrie and Berger were alike and they were the same age (SJP is even two years older than Ron).  I didn't realize that John Corbett is a few years older than SJP and Ron Livingston is two years younger.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[T Summer]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Berger is cute, funny, witty.  He's like Carrie in those ways.  He's like a male Carrie except more privileged, and more bitter about the world.  He's like Carrie with edge, like the dark side of Carrie.  He even had 3 friends like Carrie.  LOL.  What if Carrie had family money but no column?  What if Aidan had cheated on *her* instead of the reverse?

I really like Ron Livingston.  I think he's attractive and I think he gave a lot of depth to Berger.  I think he made Berger a bit more interesting than the writers wrote him.

Though the writers did a great job on their own too.  Because of both the post-it note and telling Miranda "He's just not that into you", the character of Berger left an iconic stamp on the show.   Aleks didn't do anything that memorable.  I don't even think Aidan did.  An entire book was written based off "He's Just Not That Into you".  An entire movie was made.

Carrie could be carelessly blunt with people too.  Carrie and Berger were alike and they were the same age (SJP is even two years older than Ron).  I didn't realize that John Corbett is a few years older than SJP and Ron Livingston is two years younger.

All right we'll blame the writers for making him a crummy boyfriend. 'cause they kinda did.

That "He's just not that into you" is HUGE!!!

That's not just a contribution to SATC, but to womankind. There is no way to make a man who's not into you the one, and when a man wants to be with you his actions will tell you so.

If there's one thing I could go back and tell my teenage self...

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 minutes ago, T Summer said:

All right we'll blame the writers for making him a crummy boyfriend. 'cause they kinda did.

Oh, he was definitely crummy. You're right about that.  I could just see the appeal and I'll always like that storyline for what it contributed to the show.  It was nice for Carrie to have that relationship.  Big already presented many challenges for her but Berger did in another way.  Berger was a bunch of things that Big wasn't, and yet, it didn't work either... ... I don't know, I find the whole thing fascinating.

[T Summer]

If Berger had been the way he was at the dinner with Carrie and friends where he fields Miranda's  dating dilemma and the conversation was poppin', I'd probably have liked him for her.

...but  Carrie criticizing the scrunchie bit was enough to kill the vibe?

Plus, not being able to go in to the premier with Carrie because he's so bummed his book is in the bargain bin while she just got a big advance?

When Carrie told the girls they had to do bits like  reenact movie kisses on the streets of N.Y.C. to ease the dull moments...  the looks on the girls' faces! Carrie knew then what she had  to do.

It would have been much more interesting if it actually played out with them clicking   on all cylinders  due to  the writing connection and   the conversations remained lively. Maybe they would have carried that spark in the bedroom? Unfortunately they portrayed things getting really dry   early on and gave him the above weenie moves culminating in the biggest one... dumping her via  post it. 

When I try to think who would've been best for Carrie, I didn't observe much chemistry between she and Aiden, or with  Aleks. It did come across to me with Big, but if he had been the right one there  wouldn't have been a decade of all that angst and push-pull she went through with him. Not to mention seeing him date, romance and even marry others!

Not just because I read the press for AJLT,  but I'm betting Carrie and Big the couple  wouldn't   last. Though she wanted him the most, her having to wait  over a decade for him to decide she was the one after exploring other options would never be far from her mind.

[ifionlyknew]

5 hours ago, T Summer said:

It would have been much more interesting if it actually played out with them clicking   on all cylinders  due to  the writing connection and   the conversations remained lively. Maybe they would have carried that spark in the bedroom? Unfortunately they portrayed things getting really dry   early on and gave him the above weenie moves culminating in the biggest one... dumping her via  post it. 

The relationship with Berger was just time killer to get to Alek.   But you are right.  It would have been better if it had worked and he blindsided her with the break up Post It.  It happens all the time.  One half the couple thinks they are so happy and the other half just up and quits the relationship.

5 hours ago, T Summer said:

When I try to think who would've been best for Carrie, I didn't observe much chemistry between she and Aiden, or with  Aleks. It did come across to me with Big, but if he had been the right one there  wouldn't have been a decade of all that angst and push-pull she went through with him. Not to mention seeing him date, romance and even marry others!

I've said many times I wasn't a fan of Aiden but I guess I should say I wasn't a fan of Aiden with Carrie.   But as a boyfriend he was probably the best.  He genuinely loved her but they just weren't on the same page.

7 hours ago, T Summer said:

That "He's just not that into you" is HUGE!!!

That's not just a contribution to SATC, but to womankind. There is no way to make a man who's not into you the one, and when a man wants to be with you his actions will tell you so.

This describes Carrie and Big.  He just wasn't into her unless it was when he was into her and that only lasted till he wasn't into her anymore.

12 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I thought Berger could be witty, and funny. He was probably the guy that would’ve made a good friend for Carrie.

I agree with this.  I didn't get a romantic couple vibe from them but they did  have an easygoing friend vibe.

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, T Summer said:

All right we'll blame the writers for making him a crummy boyfriend. 'cause they kinda did.

That "He's just not that into you" is HUGE!!!

That's not just a contribution to SATC, but to womankind. There is no way to make a man who's not into you the one, and when a man wants to be with you his actions will tell you so.

If there's one thing I could go back and tell my teenage self...

Yes, this was a tiny phenomenon at the time.

Women were supposed to attract men and if a man was not attracted to you, then you were doing something wrong. That mindset caused women to waste precious time on men who would never return their affections.

I just wonder how Carrie would have reacted if someone had told her that about Big?

 

[Scarlett45]

16 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Yes, this was a tiny phenomenon at the time.

Women were supposed to attract men and if a man was not attracted to you, then you were doing something wrong. That mindset caused women to waste precious time on men who would never return their affections.

I just wonder how Carrie would have reacted if someone had told her that about Big?

 

(bolding mine) Carrie wouldve wanted to believe that she was the exception, not the rule. I think a lot of young women in heterosexual relationships believe that if a man is giving him sexual attention that means he must be "into them", but giving someone sexual attention, or having them meet your need for partnered sex sometimes just means that. It doesnt mean that they like you. (of course they can like you as well, but its not a guarantee)

I remember having a discussion with my longest friend in college (we have been friends since kindergarten) about how yes, the guy liked spending time with you and was interested in sexual activity but he wasn't interest in YOU, she didn't get it but she believed me cause this guy was 100% using her for her emotional labor and sexual favors and then dating other women right under her nose! (OOOOO thinking about it makes me so mad, I remember telling her "I dont give a fuck how he feels, you are MY FRIEND!"- and she was shocked).

I love the movie, He's Just Not that Into You by the way, it was very good and showed how people can use each other (men and women) to meet certain needs, maliciously and not maliciously. 

I do not think Big was malicious towards Carrie (at least in the beginning) but Big was not a stupid man. He knew that Carrie was crazy about him and he was willing to use that when he needed to.

[ifionlyknew]

18 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Women were supposed to attract men and if a man was not attracted to you, then you were doing something wrong.

Oh yeah.  If you were available to a guy and he didn't go for it women would beat themselves thinking they weren't good enough or they weren't skinny enough or whatever.

29 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I just wonder how Carrie would have reacted if someone had told her that about Big?

I think once she found out he was engaged to Natasha she realized it.  Her and the girls talked about it.  They (minus Samantha who had never seen it) compared Big and Carrie to Katie and Hubblell in the movie The Way We Were.

But then of course when he came running to her when he was unhappy in his marriage I think she took that to mean he really did want to be with her.  Question, do you think Big would have cheated on Natasha if Carrie had told him get lost?  No way would have Carrie have cheated on Aiden with anyone other than Big.

29 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do not think Big was malicious towards Carrie (at least in the beginning) but Big was not a stupid man. He knew that Carrie was crazy about him and he was willing to use that when he needed to.

I think it was a combination of Carrie wanting more than he wanted to give and also she wasn't the woman he saw himself with long term.

[qtpye]

40 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

(bolding mine) Carrie wouldve wanted to believe that she was the exception, not the rule. I think a lot of young women in heterosexual relationships believe that if a man is giving him sexual attention that means he must be "into them", but giving someone sexual attention, or having them meet your need for partnered sex sometimes just means that. It doesnt mean that they like you. (of course they can like you as well, but its not a guarantee)

I remember having a discussion with my longest friend in college (we have been friends since kindergarten) about how yes, the guy liked spending time with you and was interested in sexual activity but he wasn't interest in YOU, she didn't get it but she believed me cause this guy was 100% using her for her emotional labor and sexual favors and then dating other women right under her nose! (OOOOO thinking about it makes me so mad, I remember telling her "I dont give a fuck how he feels, you are MY FRIEND!"- and she was shocked).

I love the movie, He's Just Not that Into You by the way, it was very good and showed how people can use each other (men and women) to meet certain needs, maliciously and not maliciously. 

I do not think Big was malicious towards Carrie (at least in the beginning) but Big was not a stupid man. He knew that Carrie was crazy about him and he was willing to use that when he needed to.

I agree.

I think the hard truth was that Big was into Carrie but did not think her good enough to be his wife.

He changed this mindset after he got sick.

11 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Oh yeah.  If you were available to a guy and he didn't go for it women would beat themselves thinking they weren't good enough or they weren't skinny enough or whatever.

I think once she found out he was engaged to Natasha she realized it.  Her and the girls talked about it.  They (minus Samantha who had never seen it) compared Big and Carrie to Katie and Hubblell in the movie The Way We Were.

But then of course when he came running to her when he was unhappy in his marriage I think she took that to mean he really did want to be with her.  Question, do you think Big would have cheated on Natasha if Carrie had told him get lost?  No way would have Carrie have cheated on Aiden with anyone other than Big.

I think it was a combination of Carrie wanting more than he wanted to give and also she wasn't the woman he saw himself with long term.

Carrie loved to imagine herself as this wild gal who Big just could not tame.

In reality, she followed him around like a puppy dog…sorry, she was no Katie.

Natasha probably was the one who played hard to get when she first met him and that probably drove him crazy.

[Scarlett45]

22 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Question, do you think Big would have cheated on Natasha if Carrie had told him get lost?

Absolutely, it wouldve taken a little bit longer but I think he would have. Big cheated on his first wife remember? I dont think he wouldve prawled the bars or went to a sex worker, but I think he wouldve met a woman (maybe at work something) and cheated on Natasha because he was bored.

 

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think the hard truth was that Big was into Carrie but did not think her good enough to be his wife.

He changed this mindset after he got sick.

I think Big genuinely LIKED/ENJOYED Carrie (as a person and sexually) but he did not WANT Carrie long term. He never tried to lock it down despite years of her telling him she wanted a commitment from him- if not a legal commitment an emotional one.

After Big got sick he realized he was all alone, he had screwed up TWO marriages by cheating (Big was honest in admitting he fucked up his own marriages by cheating, he never tried to blame Natasha or his first wife for what happened). Even when he got sick, he wasnt like "look Carrie I was an asshole, I want to be with you, please forgive me for all I have done." She came to take care of him and he just blew her off and acted like a jerk in the morning and THEN months later tried to get her back. 

I just cannot with Big.

[ifionlyknew]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Absolutely, it wouldve taken a little bit longer but I think he would have. Big cheated on his first wife remember? I dont think he wouldve prawled the bars or went to a sex worker, but I think he wouldve met a woman (maybe at work something) and cheated on Natasha because he was bored.

I think so too.  But I don't know if he would have been so reckless.  Bringing Carrie into his home was wrong on so many levels.  He wanted to get caught even if he didn't consciously realize it.  If it had been someone other than Carrie I think he would probably have gotten caught eventually but it wouldn't have been so blatant.  

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I think so too.  But I don't know if he would have been so reckless.  Bringing Carrie into his home was wrong on so many levels.  He wanted to get caught even if he didn't consciously realize it.  If it had been someone other than Carrie I think he would probably have gotten caught eventually but it wouldn't have been so blatant.  

I agree with that. He brought Carrie into his home because he knew she would go for that, he was trying to get caught by Natasha, and he was "used to Carrie" so that felt familiar to him. 

[Jillybean]

17 hours ago, T Summer said:

I never liked Berger and sort of felt like I was being unfair to him, but really what was there to like?

He's wasn't steller in the looks department... kind of a dweeb. He's mad insecure. He didn't know if he wanted in or out of a relationship and didn't know enough to chill out until he wasn't freaking out when his ex Lauren called. You're done when your don't feel anything.

AND he's so bad in bed you notice the M 1 11 buss outside making the stops?

Carrie should have skipped that whole chapter and just stayed pining away for Big. It's interesting isn't it? While he was the one she wanted and always went back to, in the interim she had a lot of... ahem,

 

relationships.

 

I loathed Berger and he kinda ruined Office Space for me. 

[T Summer]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Big genuinely LIKED/ENJOYED Carrie (as a person and sexually) but he did not WANT Carrie long term. He never tried to lock it down despite years of her telling him she wanted a commitment from him- if not a legal commitment an emotional one.

After Big got sick he realized he was all alone, he had screwed up TWO marriages by cheating (Big was honest in admitting he fucked up his own marriages by cheating, he never tried to blame Natasha or his first wife for what happened). Even when he got sick, he wasnt like "look Carrie I was an asshole, I want to be with you, please forgive me for all I have done." She came to take care of him and he just blew her off and acted like a jerk in the morning and THEN months later tried to get her back. 

I just cannot with Big.

I realize the writers have to move the story and characters along from point A to B to C, but I thought it was totally ridiculous to give Big one day in time where he sees  so clearly that he's bad for Carrie. That episode where Carrie and Samantha take a train to  San Francisco and Carrie plans to have  sex with Big because there's been no man in her life for a while. 

Suddenly they didn't portray it was going to be anything but that; Carrie wasn't thinking of getting Big back in her life or getting him to move back to N.Y.C. or anything along those lines.  Then Big acts like he's been shot up with truth serum or borrowed a woman's psyche for the day and  he now sees all the ways he's hurt or disappointed Carrie.  He's so mindful  of the damage he's done  over the years that he refuses to bed her and risk doing further damage.

...until they're almost ready to get on a plane for home. Then it's like a switch is flipped and all that goes out the window never to be spoken about again. WTF?

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, T Summer said:

I realize the writers have to move the story and characters along from point A to B to C, but I thought it was totally ridiculous to give Big one day in time where he sees  so clearly that he's bad for Carrie. That episode where Carrie and Samantha take a train to  San Francisco and Carrie plans to have  sex with Big because there's been no man in her life for a while. 

Suddenly they didn't portray it was going to be anything but that; Carrie wasn't thinking of getting Big back in her life or getting him to move back to N.Y.C. or anything along those lines.  Then Big acts like he's been shot up with truth serum or borrowed a woman's psyche for the day and  he now sees all the ways he's hurt or disappointed Carrie.  He's so mindful  of the damage he's done  over the years that he refuses to bed her and risk doing further damage.

...until they're almost ready to get on a plane for home. Then it's like a switch is flipped and all that goes out the window never to be spoken about again. WTF?

That was before he got sick right? The entire "ex sex" thing probably wouldve been fine, if Big had not iced Carrie out after she came to take care of him after his heart surgery. I do think that was before, because the San Francisco scenes were in Season 5 when SJP was pregnant.

[T Summer]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

That was before he got sick right? The entire "ex sex" thing probably wouldve been fine, if Big had not iced Carrie out after she came to take care of him after his heart surgery. I do think that was before, because the San Francisco scenes were in Season 5 when SJP was pregnant.

I don't actually recall which happened first ... Big's heart thing or their meet up in S.F.. Either way, Carrie had experienced plenty of hurt as a result of wanting something heavy and exclusive with Big and he not being in the same place. Some say Carrie misread the signals and had no one to blame but herself, which is a valid point. Suddenly on that day in the bookstore  and then in the hotel we get Big saying I never realized how much I hurt you. I'm not good for you. Where I'm concerned obviously you don't see things clearly, etc. (paraphrasing).

It's beyond strange and unbelievable  to portray him as taking all that on himself at one moment in time, and  never seeing things that way before of after  that moment in time.

[ifionlyknew]

Sometimes I wondered if different writers wrote different episodes and they didn't have an outline of what was to come.

The San Francisco trip like T Summer posted was Carrie  just looking to get laid. It was Big who all of sudden was like Ok let's talk about things. But they did have sex and parted on good terms.

But when Big came to NY for the heart surgery Carrie was hurt by how he acted afterwards.  I don't think Big acted out of character.  She doesn't hear from him again until he leaves messages for her in Season 6 Episode 17 which is two episodes before the finale.  She deletes his messages and then when he shows up right before she leaves for her farewell dinner with the girls she excoriates him.  Don't get me wrong it is something she should have done long before that but I always thought the timing was contrived.  He had hurt her so many times I just think him reverting back to his normal self after heart surgery wasn't the worst thing he had done.

[izabella]

51 minutes ago, T Summer said:

I don't actually recall which happened first ... Big's heart thing or their meet up in S.F.. Either way, Carrie had experienced plenty of hurt as a result of wanting something heavy and exclusive with Big and he not being in the same place. Some say Carrie misread the signals and had no one to blame but herself, which is a valid point. Suddenly on that day in the bookstore  and then in the hotel we get Big saying I never realized how much I hurt you. I'm not good for you. Where I'm concerned obviously you don't see things clearly, etc. (paraphrasing).

It's beyond strange and unbelievable  to portray him as taking all that on himself at one moment in time, and  never seeing things that way before of after  that moment in time.

I think his sudden realizations were because read her book where she makes a point of how he had broken her heart a million times.  He kept reading and quoting from it the entire time in San Francisco.

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I think his sudden realizations were because read her book where she makes a point of how he had broken her heart a million times.  He kept reading and quoting from it the entire time in San Francisco.

Yes, she said something like you've read my columns before and he said yes, but not all in one sitting, that was tough to take. (something like that... again,paraphrasing). I just wonder where all that insight went after the S.F. book talk s5 ep7 ? They have him discussing all their ups and downs since the beginning  including when he wouldn't give her a key to his apartment. That didn't seem like Big and I never again saw signs of this newfound awareness and reticence to hurt Carrie.

I know we're  discussing the series here and not so much the movies (and believe me I'd like to forget them), but when Charlotte squeals with delight  in that restaurant scene in the 1st movie she says  "she has been going out with the man for 10 years!" So after the finale where he went to Paris to get her they went back to seeing each other (no doubt completely on his terms). If they had lived together I doubt Charlotte would have referred to it as 10 years of going out with him.

IDK. `shrugs`

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, T Summer said:

I know we're  discussing the series here and not so much the movies (and believe me I'd like to forget them), but when Charlotte squeals with delight  in that restaurant scene in the 1st movie she says  "she has been going out with the man for 10 years!" So after the finale where he went to Paris to get her they went back to seeing each other (no doubt completely on his terms). If they had lived together I doubt Charlotte would have referred to it as 10 years of going out with him.

IDK. `shrugs`

If I was writing the show whereby Carrie was Big’s great love, that entire “you’re the one” declaration would’ve been after breakup 2 in season 2….(let’s say the girls go to Paris on a trip and Big is there and high jinx’s ensue) and then you could’ve had them married in season 6. 
 

In the universe after the movies they were kinda sorta living together- meaning Carrie spent most of her nights at Big’s but kept her own place. 

[Avabelle]

15 hours ago, T Summer said:

Suddenly they didn't portray it was going to be anything but that; Carrie wasn't thinking of getting Big back in her life or getting him to move back to N.Y.C. or anything along those lines.  Then Big acts like he's been shot up with truth serum or borrowed a woman's psyche for the day and  he now sees all the ways he's hurt or disappointed Carrie.  He's so mindful  of the damage he's done  over the years that he refuses to bed her and risk doing further damage.

...until they're almost ready to get on a plane for home. Then it's like a switch is flipped and all that goes out the window never to be spoken about again. WTF?

I agree with the logic of this post but I did think that scene was hilarious. SJP can deliver comedy and this scene always makes me laugh when he keeps reading her paragraphs of the book and she says something along the lines of “now just kiss me, or at least lay down on top of me”. The way she delivers it is hilarious.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't know, I've had people apologize for how they treated me like that.  And it can be shocking because it came from people who I didn't even realize had that kind of self-awareness -- or else why would they do it?  But then sometimes they go back to their usual ways because that's the only way they know how to act.  So I think the storyline is kind of realistic.  Maybe it was all dealt with a bit too quickly for time, and because Chris Noth was only available for that episode -- that complaint I do get.

[RealHousewife]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:11 AM, T Summer said:

It did come across to me with Big, but if he had been the right one there  wouldn't have been a decade of all that angst and push-pull she went through with him. Not to mention seeing him date, romance and even marry others!

Not just because I read the press for AJLT,  but I'm betting Carrie and Big the couple  wouldn't   last. Though she wanted him the most, her having to wait  over a decade for him to decide she was the one after exploring other options would never be far from her mind.

Shopping advice I've heard and believe in is, if you're not initially crazy about something, you'll like it even less once it's yours. Obviously human beings are different from clothing, but it still applies to a degree. It shouldn't take a decade to know someone is the one, especially at their ages. I could see people who start dating in high school waiting a decade to know if they want to spend the rest of their lives together, but that's it.

If Carrie really did grow on him and falling in love was a very slow process, is that really good enough? I guess if you like drama and/or Big's $ makes it worth the heartache. Women already deal with so many insecurities. Am I not pretty enough? Does he want a younger woman like Natasha? Is it my background? Am I not cutting it in the bedroom? And Carrie wasn't a chill, super confident person. She was neurotic to stalk Big going to church with his mom and scheme to meet his ex-wife. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Shopping advice I've heard and believe in is, if you're not initially crazy about something, you'll like it even less once it's yours.

That's really interesting.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't know, I've had people apologize for how they treated me like that.  And it can be shocking because it came from people who I didn't even realize had that kind of self-awareness -- or else why would they do it?  But then sometimes they go back to their usual ways because that's the only way they know how to act.  So I think the storyline is kind of realistic.  Maybe it was all dealt with a bit too quickly for time, and because Chris Noth was only available for that episode -- that complaint I do get.

Season 5 was condensed because of SJP’s pregnancy and they started late so maybe. The San Fran episode made sense to me, as did Big getting weird after his heart surgery. 

 

24 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Shopping advice I've heard and believe in is, if you're not initially crazy about something, you'll like it even less once it's yours. Obviously human beings are different from clothing, but it still applies to a degree. It shouldn't take a decade to know someone is the one, especially at their ages. I could see people who start dating in high school waiting a decade to know if they want to spend the rest of their lives together, but that's it.

If Carrie really did grow on him and falling in love was a very slow process, is that really good enough? I guess if you like drama and/or Big's $ makes it worth the heartache. Women already deal with so many insecurities. Am I not pretty enough? Does he want a younger woman like Natasha? Is it my background? Am I not cutting it in the bedroom? And Carrie wasn't a chill, super confident person. She was neurotic to stalk Big going to church with his mom and scheme to meet his ex-wife. 

I think this would’ve been fine if Carrie wanted some companionship, partnered sex and a certain type of lifestyle- and because she and Big were both getting older they decided to be together since they genuinely liked each other and were on the same page about major life stuff (like children). 
 

But Carrie was madly IN LOVE with Big for a long time. Did she worry about him cheating? I don’t think Big was a Richard type, but if the opportunity presented itself he wouldn’t be above it after what he did to his first wife and Natasha. 

[buttersister]

Quote

until they're almost ready to get on a plane for home. 

Because sex had to be on his terms. Like everything else. All of the time.

Quote

Did she worry about him cheating?

Worry? He’s a cheater. That’s what he does. When that’s the way you come in, that’s the way you go out—getting the same treatment at the end. (Don’t have spoilers, but it would be realistic, at least.)

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, buttersister said:

Because sex had to be on his terms. Like everything else. All of the time.

Worry? He’s a cheater. That’s what he does. When that’s the way you come in, that’s the way you go out—getting the same treatment at the end. (Don’t have spoilers, but it would be realistic, at least.)

You speak only the truth. 

FYI- I just finished “All the Single Ladies” discussed up thread. I think Miranda and Samantha would’ve enjoyed reading it. Miranda would’ve made a great interview candidate for it. 

[WendyCR72]

Seems odd timing to do this when streaming seems to be the norm (though probably as a tie-in for the upcoming revival!), but the complete series and films are coming to Blu-Ray (well, the films already have!).

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Seems odd timing to do this when streaming seems to be the norm (though probably as a tie-in for the upcoming revival!), but the complete series and films are coming to Blu-Ray (well, the films already have!).

This is big exciting news.  Well for me, I love physical media!  The only issue is that I've been sitting on a few series on Blu Ray but I haven't purchased yet because they're all so crazy expensive!  I can already see that it's about $150 Canadian and $140 USD on the American Amazon site.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Scarlett45]

What are our thoughts on Dr Trey MacDougal?

I will start:

I don’t think Trey was a “bad guy”, he seemed like a decent person. He certainly had his issues 1. the denial about the impotence - that was just weird to me, that he would just rather not sexually experiment with his wife at all because he had issues maintaining an erection, 2. His lack of boundaries with Bunny (a common enough problem, especially since Trey had been single for so long, Bunny was the female influence in his life). Although the watching him bathe crossed so many lines. It wasn’t as if Trey was sick or injured and Bunny came over to help him get ready rather than expecting Charlotte to do it, Trey was a perfectly healthy abled bodied grown ass man and his Mom was sitting there chatting with him while he was in the tub. She couldn’t wait until he at least had his undergarments on???
 

I do think Trey and Charlotte were incompatible though. They got together because it looked good “on paper”, but Trey didn’t have the drive to be a parent the way Charlotte did. It was the best thing that they split up. Of course Trey had every right to change his mind about kids when it was no longer a simple issue of “have sex, wife will be pregnant, then baby” (as a childfree person I understand), but they had discussed having children and it was an expectation in the marriage. Charlotte had every right to want out since she wanted to do everything she could do to try to be a mom. 
 

I also thought it was very progressive to have Charlotte and Trey break up. I think a lesser show/developed Charlotte would’ve stayed married to Trey, hoping and praying that a pregnancy happened and being resentful if she didn’t have a spontaneous pregnancy, and resenting Trey because he was happy with the status quo and she was not. Charlotte would’ve looked up and been 42, angry and upset and would’ve divorced Trey anyway. I am glad she got out when she did. 
 

I think Trey maybe did marry again. Another Dr who didn’t want children or whos kids were almost grown (he was a bit older than Charlotte at 43 I think, when they got divorced). 

[Avabelle]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

It was the best thing that the split up. Of course Trey had every right to change his mind about kids when it was no longer a simple issue of “have sex, wife will be pregnant, then baby” (as a childfree person I understand), but they had discussed having children and it was an expectation in the marriage.

It was an expectation it would just happen without issue as well though. As a teenager watching this show I thought Trey was a complete douche for wanting to stop the treatments and just leave it up to fate to happen naturally. Now in my 30s and married I’m unfortunately in a similar position to them as we’ve struggled to have children and I can see where Trey was coming from. It’s so exhausting and given they didn’t get on for most of the marriage I can see why he was just exhausted by everything. I think she was right to end it because they wanted different things. The breakup was very realistic. 

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

It was an expectation it would just happen without issue as well though. As a teenager watching this show I thought Trey was a complete douche for wanting to stop the treatments and just leave it up to fate to happen naturally. Now in my 30s and married I’m unfortunately in a similar position to them as we’ve struggled to have children and I can see where Trey was coming from. It’s so exhausting and given they didn’t get on for most of the marriage I can see why he was just exhausted by everything. I think she was right to end it because they wanted different things. The breakup was very realistic. 

I am sorry you’ve had that struggle.

Trey was an MD, so far more educated than the average bear, but I think women think more about this stuff because we are the ones with the uterus, who have to carry and labor and nurse AND are usually primary caregivers to boot. I think like a lot of men he didn’t think much about conceiving until it was an “issue”- simply because he didn’t have to.
 

I think there are people who enjoy being parents and love their kids, but wouldn’t have “sought it out”. My Mom being one of them- had my Mom not been able to have sex and get pregnant easily she would’ve been childfree. No way would she would’ve spent time and money on infertility treatments. Had she been a lesbian and not having partnered sex with men, she would’ve been childfree. That doesn’t effect how much she loves me or the type of mother she has been but she would’ve been fulfilled without kids. 
 

I understood Trey back then (probably because I figured I probably wouldn’t have kids even as a teen), and I understood Charlotte too. Motherhood was really important to her, and if fatherhood wasn’t nearly as important to Trey they just weren’t compatible. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Charlotte definitely didn't care about long term compatibility.  She cared that Trey was handsome, a doctor, looked the way that he did from that type of family, was romantic, and swept her off her feet.  But it ended up turning into a great story so that Charlotte could learn the tough realities of life and come to see beyond superficial things.

Trey, I don't know.  He's spineless.  Why did he marry Charlotte if he didn't want to get married?  Big eyeroll.  I understand where Char was coming from, Trey, not so much.

Good point from @Scarlett45 about how Trey was a good enough man to be totally fine with the marriage ending and letting Charlotte leave with as much dignity as he could give her.  He's not a bad person at all.  He has a lot of class.... but......... he should not have gotten married and especially not to Charlotte.

Charlotte also got the great friendship with Anthony from it.  And of course met Harry.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay