Sex And The City - General Discussion

[ifionlyknew]

13 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think it really irks us because it builds on the trope that men get to be lovable "boys" all their lives, while we women should just enjoy cleaning up their messes and taking care of everything. If the woman complains then she is labeled a shrew.

There is a long list of TV shows and movies that is centered around just that.  And sadly they are usually hits. For whatever reason lots of people like watching that.

If I had felt like Miranda genuinely wanted to move to Brooklynn and live a more family oriented life I would have been all for it. Being a strong independent woman means doing what you want to do. However I didn't think it was in Miranda's character to do that.  

[Black Knight]

13 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

I thought they got the house in Brooklyn because Steve was stupid enough to get a high energy herding dog as a pet. Wasn’t his bar in Manhattan too? If they didn’t have the stupid dog they could have stayed, IMO. But I’m always bemused when city dwellers think working dogs are good for apartments in cities.

In keeping with Steve's revamped personality where he was too immature to think of things like that.

The thing is, the dog will have passed away by now and Brady is old enough for college. So if the writers are smart, they'd have it that Miranda and Steve have moved back into Manhattan.

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

The thing is, the dog will have passed away by now and Brady is old enough for college. So if the writers are smart, they'd have it that Miranda and Steve have moved back into Manhattan.

Or that will be Miranda's storyline. She wants to move back to Manhattan and Steve does not. I doubt this reboot? (what exactly are we calling it) is going to have three happy couples.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

Or that will be Miranda's storyline. She wants to move back to Manhattan and Steve does not. I doubt this reboot? (what exactly are we calling it) is going to have three happy couples.  

If that is the case I would love for Miranda to bring up that HE has never had to sacrifice or compromise for the relationship and no, getting comfortable with a spouse that makes much more money does not count.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Or that will be Miranda's storyline. She wants to move back to Manhattan and Steve does not. I doubt this reboot? (what exactly are we calling it) is going to have three happy couples.  

Revival?  That's what they call Will and Grace.  There's other shows that have come back too like Mad About You.  

[RealHousewife]

You guys made many good points about Miranda doing all the sacrificing in the relationship. I have a soft spot for Steve though. He had a sweet disposition, unlike Big.

How many of you all liked Big? I get that he was charming, charismatic, and glamorous, but he was basically a middle-age fuckboy. 

[Maysie]

There's a lot I don't remember about the show because I haven't gone back to re-watch, but yeah, they did make Steve into a manbaby, which is annoying because it didn't start out that way (and it's really prominent with his voice - it's almost like they decided to write to the actor's actual voice!).

I go back and forth on the things that posters have brought up as issues - the dog, the suit, the move, etc. I never liked the idea of the dog because dogs are actual work and I don't endorse anyone getting a dog on impulse (let alone a puppy and a super intelligent breed that needs engagement). So Steve lost me on that one; he was a spoiled boy who wanted a dog so he got a dog and then basically gave up responsibility for the dog, which, ugh. He probably would have lost me on that move alone.

But...I understood his weirdness about the suit. I remember when I was dating my now husband and I was flat, busted broke because I was unemployed for a bit. It was very difficult to go against my nature and accept him paying for everything and it made me feel worse about my situation, even though he was being his normal, generous self. So that's hard for some people, and it's not always about control or gender roles or power structures in a relationship, as much as it can be a statement about who/what you are, where you are in life and your life choices.

As for the move and Steve's mother, I don't remember much about that time period. I can understand wanting to raise your kid in an actual house instead of a high rise apartment and can absolutely understand wanting to take in your aging parent. Was he selfish about all that? Yes, I think he was. But I don't think those two items are actually out of line in any family dynamic. Where it gets dicey is to insist on these things and then relying on your partner to handle it all for you. I may be misremembering, but I seem to think that Miranda was  okay with the idea of having Steve's mother with them; I seem to recall Mrianda's devastation at the loss of her own mother and how Steve's appearance at the funeral meant so much to her. So I saw that as not so much as payback, but as doing what she would have wanted to opportunity to do for her own mother. Interestingly, when you look at what happened to real estate in Brooklyn, they probably did pretty damn well with that house at the end of it all. I have hipster friends that moved away from Brooklyn, back to Manhattan, because Brooklyn became too expensive.

I will say that I was mortified at Mrianda's behavior on their honeymoon. Yeah, he wanted to have a lot of sex, which okay, there's only so much of that you can do. But Miranda behaved like she was being tortured spending an entire weekend alone with her husband! OMG! How horrible!!! I was left wondering why she married him if a long weekend alone with him was that awful.

ETA: I think middle aged fuck boy is an apt description of Big. Back when I was watching, I asked myself if I would have been prone to his charms as Carrie was, because he could be charismatic. I think he would have been a fun date, but beyond that, I think his aloofness/mystery/whatever, was a bit contrived - almost like those guys that know there are women out there that love the chase, so they adopt that posture/play the game to keep them going. Of all of Carrie's boyfriends, Aidan seemed like the best of the bunch; Berger was the worst. Ugh.

The men on the show weren't all that great. Robert, Harry and Aidan were the only ones I can recall actually liking throughout their runs on the show. Smith wasn't bad, but he was almost too good looking.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Maysie

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

There is a long list of TV shows and movies that is centered around just that.  And sadly they are usually hits. For whatever reason lots of people like watching that.

If I had felt like Miranda genuinely wanted to move to Brooklynn and live a more family oriented life I would have been all for it. Being a strong independent woman means doing what you want to do. However I didn't think it was in Miranda's character to do that.  

That's the problem with Miranda storylines in general. I never got the idea that she wanted kids. Not once before, during or even after Brady. I never got the idea that she was in love with Steve. They'd give us a moment or episode where she was happy with him and the next one was back to being annoyed with him. Same with moving to Brooklyn. If they given us any sign that Miranda actually wanted any of this then it would be different. But they never really did. Marriage is the only thing I could see her maybe wanting. But even that didn't seem like something she had to have. She seemed like she'd be happy single, or happy in a relationship with someone but not married or married. With Charlotte we knew she wanted marriage and kids because she talked about it a lot. It was what she wanted and her goal. So it made sense that she married and had kids. They never gave us that with Miranda.  

[Quof]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I never got the idea that she wanted kids. Not once before, during or even after Brady.

While waiting at the clinic, debating whether to have the abortion, Miranda says "What if I wake up one day and I'm 42?" (her scary age)  "Is this my baby?".  It certainly seemed, although she had never voiced it on screen, that she always figured she would have a baby some day, it just never seemed to be the right time. So she took this as a sign from the universe.  That doesn't mean she always had a burning desire to have one - like Charlotte - but she had never decided she didn't want one (like me). 

[Avabelle]

I don’t think it was in Miranda’s personality to openly talk about wanting marriage/kids like Charlotte did. I think she was a lot more guarded about what she wanted in case it didn’t work out but I think she was quite traditional and wanted to meet someone and possibly have a kid. She just hid the desire behind her sarcasm. Although the examples above with Steve are very true one thing I always liked about them was that she was completely herself with them. She never saw it as anything serious and because of that was comfortable from the start and that’s something she didn’t experience with a lot of her love interests.

The episode before they broke up sucked though. He was such a big baby. I do see why she fell back in love with him - it might not have happened without Brady as she wouldn’t have been around him so much but I think by the end of the series she was content with her their life in Brooklyn. And I could be wrong but I didn’t think Steve asked for his mother to live with them I think Miranda suggested it once they went to her apartment and saw how badly she was living. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Maysie said:

The men on the show weren't all that great. Robert, Harry and Aidan were the only ones I can recall actually liking throughout their runs on the show. Smith wasn't bad, but he was almost too good looking.

Robert and Harry were great.  I was never a fan of Aidan but Aidan is a good person and I can't fault him for much.  Smith is very goodlooking on the show but I met him in person and it was kind of a disappointment.  Actors are often so much smaller than you think they are.  After meeting him, I don't think he's too goodlooking for Kim Catrall.

I think that the writers and producers of SATC just have really whack taste in men.  Basically their taste is, if it's white, it's right.  Don't forget, Robert wasn't introduced until the very last season probably because of media pressure.  Besides that the only non-white man I can remember is Chivon and maybe there were some Latino guys?  MAYBE?????  Charlotte wouldn't even date someone non-circumcised let alone non-white.  Even Sophia Petrillo on The Golden Girls dated a Japanese man in the 80s.  So did Stephanie Tanner.  LOL.  

I wouldn't be able to find David Eigenberg or John Corbett attractive if you paid me money, I'm sorry.  At least I can see THE APPEAL of Chris Noth.  Same with Mikhail Baryshnikov.  And I think Ron Livingston is very cute.  Harry was attractive because they wrote him as attractive and the actor played him very well.  

Edited January 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[BlueMoon81]

On 1/26/2021 at 11:47 AM, CleoCaesar said:

The Brooklyn thing drives me nuts because it's so unnecessary and obviously just there to be another chapter in Miranda Needs to Learn How to Compromise.

Steve (as always) didn't seem to consider Miranda's feelings at all in the house-buying scenario. Why was he so hellbent on Brooklyn? It was farther away from Miranda's workplace, meaning a longish commute (depending where in Brooklyn) and more stress for her. She was a partner in at a Big Law firm in Manhattan - she was making serious money. The idea that they had only two choices - tiny Manhattan apartment or house in Brooklyn - was laughable. They could have easily chosen a spacious apartment, say, on the Upper West Side (tons of families, schools, playgrounds, the park). But Steve wanted the house, and Steve got the house. How? By (as always) playing the stop-being-selfish-and-compromise card. Miranda could be self-centered and maybe even "too independent" (although I loathe that concept), but the way that relationship was structured was always Miranda changing for Steve in some way or another, like she was somehow damaged and this relationship was teaching her how to be better. Steve, meanwhile, stayed pretty static. Doesn't seem very fair.

That’s another reason I wasn’t very high on Steve/Miranda. Steve would brow-beat Miranda into “compromising”, just to get his way—the house in Brooklyn, cuddling all day on Saturday (I love cuddling with my significant other, but that just wasn’t Miranda’s thing), and even getting a puppy (Scout)....despite Miranda initially doing ALL of the work with caring for Scout. The only time Miranda was “allowed to” stand firm in her convictions by the writers, was when Steve wanted a baby in Season 3. I was so happy that Miranda stood her ground and said NO. But what do ya know, they had Miranda get accidentally pregnant by Steve in Season 4 anyways *eye roll* 

[BlueMoon81]

8 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

You guys made many good points about Miranda doing all the sacrificing in the relationship. I have a soft spot for Steve though. He had a sweet disposition, unlike Big.

How many of you all liked Big? I get that he was charming, charismatic, and glamorous, but he was basically a middle-age fuckboy. 

I actually enjoyed Big. I think the mythology of the show doesn’t line up with what I saw happen on screen. The mythology of the show is that Big was some master puppeteer who toyed with the emotions of victim Carrie. What I saw play out on screen was Carrie being childishly insecure about Big’s ex wife (including wasting his ex wife’s time by pitching an imaginary book idea to her); Carrie trying to force Big to introduce her to his mother (after he explicitly told her that he had to do that on his own time); her breaking up with him over not being immediately told “you’re the one” in that exact moment; her punching Big in the face because he accidentally rolled her out of bed IN HIS SLEEP; her acting like a complete loon when he said he might have to go to Paris for a couple months for a business deal, etc. The Affair was them BOTH being a complete mess (and Carrie pretending she was a victim/forced into the situation *eye roll*), etc. I think Big just communicated differently than Carrie—not everyone communicates in the high drama, insecure, adolescent way that Carrie does 

On 1/25/2021 at 11:27 AM, ifionlyknew said:

I find myself comparing SATC to two of my other favorite shows about four women. Golden Girls and Designing Women.  GG and DW were (and correct me if I'm wrong) meant to be shows about the four characters. Nobody was supposed to be the star with the other three supporting the star.  GG might have intended Sophia to be supporting but they quickly changed that.  

And I've noticed something. When I have recently watched GG and DW I find the episodes as enjoyable when I watched them over 30 years ago. I can't say the same about SATC and that makes me sad.

I’m a big GG fan, and I find myself enjoying the episodes just as much as when the show came out as well. The writing was/is some of the best ever on television. They NEVER made one of the characters whiny, a TERRIBLE friend, and never held accountable...unlike SATC did with Carrie (I watched SATC when it originally aired, and I felt the same about Carrie then as well). I truly think that SJP getting the Exec Producer slot during Season 2 was a BAD move for the show....Carrie was allowed to say whatever she wanted to her friends and NEVER be held accountable in the moment (mocking Miranda for seeing a therapist, the endless judging/slut shaming of Samantha, bullying of Charlotte at various times, etc). GG never had one of the lead actresses calling the shots behind the scenes 

[JAYJAY1979]

I remember one episode..I think the one where Charlotte was quitting her job because she was marrying Trey.  She and Miranda had an argument over feminism and Charlotte stated feminism involved being able to choose what she wanted to do without bowing to pressure.

But at the end of the episode, Charlotte was a little saddened to be leaving her job (but wouldn't admit it to Miranda)..and I think Miranda had something happen that involved her missing work..and she found herself enjoying not working (but wouldn't admit it to anyone especially Charlotte).

So I do agree that Miranda was more contained about her desires.  A small part of her probably wanted kids and marriage, but didn't want to say it out loud.

All of those little nuances were missing from the 1st and, even more so, the 2nd movie.

[RealHousewife]

10 hours ago, Maysie said:

I will say that I was mortified at Mrianda's behavior on their honeymoon. Yeah, he wanted to have a lot of sex, which okay, there's only so much of that you can do. But Miranda behaved like she was being tortured spending an entire weekend alone with her husband! OMG! How horrible!!! I was left wondering why she married him if a long weekend alone with him was that awful.

 

7 hours ago, Avabelle said:

I don’t think it was in Miranda’s personality to openly talk about wanting marriage/kids like Charlotte did. I think she was a lot more guarded about what she wanted in case it didn’t work out but I think she was quite traditional and wanted to meet someone and possibly have a kid. She just hid the desire behind her sarcasm. Although the examples above with Steve are very true one thing I always liked about them was that she was completely herself with them. She never saw it as anything serious and because of that was comfortable from the start and that’s something she didn’t experience with a lot of her love interests.

I am like Miranda in that I am more guarded. I find over the top romantic types kind of cheesy. Charlotte was a beautiful, kind art dealer in her 30's. I'm sure most men would be thrilled to be with someone as pretty as she is, but sometimes she came across as desperate and childish with her "you're marrying him!" about someone one of the girls just began dating, "Set the date!!!" to Harry, or "I've been dating since I was 16! Where is he?!" And who can forget when she squealed to strangers about Carrie's engagement at a restaurant. I remember thinking, FFS woman, get a grip! I appreciate romance in a deeper way and enjoy romantic music, movies, believe in true love and all that good stuff. But watching Charlotte I totally feel like a Miranda. 

Where I am different from Miranda is I'm not abrasive. Much as I totally understand her being guarded and not comfortable with the mushiness and squeals of Charlotte, she could get pretty harsh. I get her not walking to talk openly about marriage and kids even if she did want them/was at least open to a family, because sometimes people assume you're like a Charlotte. It can be a pain in the ass when folks are trying to set you up on dates and telling you, you only have so many years to have kids. There is so much single shaming and people being intrusive and pushy about these issues. I wish there was one character who was more in the middle with that stuff. I suppose the closest is Carrie. (I am not saying she was the most mature or perfect. I'm strictly referring to her not being as soft as Charlotte or as hard as Miranda.) Even though I was never the girl who talked about my boy crushes and am still very private, I believe you need to show a partner you care about him. I'd be hurt if my partner seemed like spending time with me were torture. I'd wonder if something was wrong with me if he made time for hanging out with his buddies but would go half a year without sleeping with me. That's really my only gripe about Miranda. I thought she could be more sweet and affectionate. Otherwise, I loved that she was a hard worker, intelligent, and kindhearted underneath the tough exterior. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by RealHousewife

[ifionlyknew]

I do think Miranda was conflicted.  She was independent and was IMO  hesitant about giving that up.  I can only speak for myself but when you are an independent woman and you enter into a serious relationship you do worry about losing yourself and becoming someone else.  And I think that is exactly what happened when Miranda married Steve.  If she had married a more mature man I think that would  have allowed her to be more true to herself.

8 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

I actually enjoyed Big. I think the mythology of the show doesn’t line up with what I saw happen on screen. The mythology of the show is that Big was some master puppeteer who toyed with the emotions of victim Carrie. What I saw play out on screen was Carrie being childishly insecure about Big’s ex wife (including wasting his ex wife’s time by pitching an imaginary book idea to her); Carrie trying to force Big to introduce her to his mother (after he explicitly told her that he had to do that on his own time); her breaking up with him over not being immediately told “you’re the one” in that exact moment; her punching Big in the face because he accidentally rolled her out of bed IN HIS SLEEP; her acting like a complete loon when he said he might have to go to Paris for a couple months for a business deal, etc. The Affair was them BOTH being a complete mess (and Carrie pretending she was a victim/forced into the situation *eye roll*), etc. I think Big just communicated differently than Carrie—not everyone communicates in the high drama, insecure, adolescent way that Carrie does 

Up until the Hamptons party I thought Carrie was the one who was responsible for things not working with Big.  She wanted things he was unable to give her.  But then he shows up engaged to another woman.  And Carrie realizes he was just unable to give what she wanted to her but was able to give it to this stick figure with no soul.  Believe me that hurts.  That happened to me.  When you makes excuses for why a man isn't committing to you and then he suddenly commits to someone else it's like a knife through the heart.  That being said upon a couple or several rewatches I don't know if I fault Big for not committing to Carrie at that time. It wasn't what he wanted.  I don't think I can blame him for that.

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Robert and Harry were great.

They were my two favorite men.  I know some people think Robert was a dick because he acted like a dick after Miranda broke up with him but I blame the writers for that. They wanted us to think Miranda made the right choice.  But Robert was always a good guy when he was with Miranda.  And Harry loved Charlotte so much and she deserved that after Trey.

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I wouldn't be able to find David Eigenberg or John Corbett attractive if you paid me money, I'm sorry.  At least I can see THE APPEAL of Chris Noth.  Same with Mikhail Baryshnikov.  And I think Ron Livingston is very cute.  Harry was attractive because they wrote him as attractive and the actor played him very well.  

Yeah I'm going to sound superficial but part of my dislike for Steve is because I don't find David attractive at all. Add in the voice and that just makes it worse.  John Corbett is from my hometown.  About 20 years ago my husband was working at a restaurant and John was there. My husband told him my wife loves SATC and my husband said his only response was OK. And I have heard from other people when he is in town he acts like a dick.  I liked Chris Noth on Law & Order so that influenced me in my like of him on SATC. Hell I even liked him on the  Good Wife. Baryshnikov I didn't find attractive and I didn't like his character.  Ron Livingston is very cute.  His character was just a transition guy to get her to Alek.  I actually think him and Carrie were well suited for one another.

17 hours ago, Maysie said:

Smith wasn't bad, but he was almost too good looking.

Well Samantha was interested in him at first because he was so hot.  But he turned out to be so much more.  My heart broke for him when Samantha went off with Richard at that party and Smith just waited for her to come back.  She knew she had hurt him and felt so badly about it.  Their relationship was my second favorite after Charlotte and Harry.

[Ms Blue Jay]

42 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Well Samantha was interested in him at first because he was so hot.  But he turned out to be so much more.  My heart broke for him when Samantha went off with Richard at that party and Smith just waited for her to come back.  She knew she had hurt him and felt so badly about it.  Their relationship was my second favorite after Charlotte and Harry.

I agree, I enjoy their relationship a lot.  It was great how the writers found sort of an unconventional match for Sam.  It was creative.  Men always get to date someone younger and hot so why not women?

43 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

They were my two favorite men.  I know some people think Robert was a dick because he acted like a dick after Miranda broke up with him but I blame the writers for that. 

Yeah, I never thought that!  Robert talking to Miranda in the stairwell is one of the all time hilarious scenes on the show.  I don't think he was being a dick and whatever it was sooooooo funny

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

GG never had one of the lead actresses calling the shots behind the scenes 

I love Golden Girls too but there is some interesting background stuff about how Bea Arthur hated Betty White and treated her accordingly.  Even Bea's son has stated this publicly.  I feel like that bled into the show because the women could be really harsh towards Rose and even hit her over the head with newspapers sometimes.  But I know what you mean, none of the women had control over the writing and that was a very good thing for writing the characters evenly.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Robert and Harry were great.  I was never a fan of Aidan but Aidan is a good person and I can't fault him for much.  Smith is very goodlooking on the show but I met him in person and it was kind of a disappointment.  Actors are often so much smaller than you think they are.  After meeting him, I don't think he's too goodlooking for Kim Catrall.

I think that the writers and producers of SATC just have really whack taste in men.  Basically their taste is, if it's white, it's right.  Don't forget, Robert wasn't introduced until the very last season probably because of media pressure.  Besides that the only non-white man I can remember is Chivon and maybe there were some Latino guys?  MAYBE?????  Charlotte wouldn't even date someone non-circumcised let alone non-white.  Even Sophia Petrillo on The Golden Girls dated a Japanese man in the 80s.  So did Stephanie Tanner.  LOL.  

I wouldn't be able to find David Eigenberg or John Corbett attractive if you paid me money, I'm sorry.  At least I can see THE APPEAL of Chris Noth.  Same with Mikhail Baryshnikov.  And I think Ron Livingston is very cute.  Harry was attractive because they wrote him as attractive and the actor played him very well.  

Robert is definitely a cutie. Now the guy who plays Harry, I wouldn't get with him for his looks tbh. He's kind of an average Joe. I get what you mean about the character and the acting making him more attractive though. 

How was Smith disappointing in person? Did he age a lot? Was he just very photo/videogenic? Girl, give me details! I always thought that guy was absolutely gorgeous. I wouldn't say he's too good-looking for Kim Cattrall either, as she is a beautiful woman. But a lot of beautiful women still don't care for pretty boys who might take attention away from them, especially when they're much younger than they are. You still kind of want to feel like you're arm candy too. Some people do say the woman should always be prettier though. 

You're right in that the show needed more diversity. Chivon was hot, but yeah him and Robert were hardly enough when the girls dated TONS of men. 

I always thought Aidan was so cute. Big is a handsome guy, just didn't do it for me. Steve was cute, but not in a hot/sexy way like Aidan or Robert. I think Mikhail Baryshnikov is a cute guy. Ron Livingston is like Big where I see he's attractive, just doesn't do it for me.

[Ms Blue Jay]

34 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

How was Smith disappointing in person? Did he age a lot? Was he just very photo/videogenic? Girl, give me details! I always thought that guy was absolutely gorgeous. I wouldn't say he's too good-looking for Kim Cattrall either, as she is a beautiful woman. But a lot of beautiful women still don't care for pretty boys who might take attention away from them, especially when they're much younger than they are. You still kind of want to feel like you're arm candy too. Some people do say the woman should always be prettier though. 

It's hard telling stories like this, because there's always a "Pics or it didn't happen" reaction.  I feel like maybe people won't believe me?  This is before the days where you took selfies all the time.  In the good olden days.

This was around 2003 I'd say, and Jason Lewis was dating Rosario Dawson.

I was a drunk college kid out with some friends (okay really drunk) and my friend was like "That's Rosario Dawson".  I said No wayyyyy.  I look over and the two of them are standing together.  Funny thing is, (and here's where it REALLY sounds like I'm lying) Rosario was blonde, and JASON had the dark hair.  It was like they switched.  So Jason's hair was actually black!

My friend was like "Go and talk to her".  They knew I would have the drunk courage to actually do this.

So I went up to them and drunkenly told them that I was big fans, that they are beautiful people, and they have made our lives better with their beauty.  (I swear, something like that.)  Credit to them they were EXTREMELY gracious and much nicer than they had to be and they thanked me profusely and Rosario just about fell over herself laughing.

Rosario was TINNNNNNNNNY.  I always thought she was so curvaceous in pictures and in the movies but in person she's actually stick thin and she was wearing major stilettos.

I looked up a picture to show you, and it says this pic is from September 2004, which makes perfect sense.  Toronto International Film Festival happens every September and the celebrities descend upon us like aliens.

Jason was not much taller than Rosario in stilettos, if at all (and the stilettos were HIGH).  And he just seemed....... small.  We've all seen that Smirnoff Vodka ad where he obviously seems enormous and larger than life.  I always had such a big crush on Smith/Jason and when I saw him in person he just ...... did not seem like that.  Hahaha.  I'm sorry to say!  I cannot find a similar picture of how Jason looked.  I don't think he's famous enough to have his every hairstyle catalogued by the media. 

34 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

How was Smith disappointing in person? Did he age a lot? Was he just very photo/videogenic? Girl, give me details! I always thought that guy was absolutely gorgeous. I wouldn't say he's too good-looking for Kim Cattrall either, as she is a beautiful woman. But a lot of beautiful women still don't care for pretty boys who might take attention away from them, especially when they're much younger than they are. You still kind of want to feel like you're arm candy too. Some people do say the woman should always be prettier though. 

Wow this is so funny to me.  I so don't share this point of view.  I'd be totally fine with a man younger than me and/or completely out of my league.  Sure.  Send them my way!  😄

Edited January 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

12 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's hard telling stories like this, because there's always a "Pics or it didn't happen" reaction.  I feel like maybe people won't believe me?  This is before the days where you took selfies all the time.  In the good olden days.

This was around 2003 I'd say, and Jason Lewis was dating Rosario Dawson.

I was a drunk college kid out with some friends (okay really drunk) and my friend was like "That's Rosario Dawson".  I said No wayyyyy.  I look over and the two of them are standing together.  Funny thing is, (and here's where it REALLY sounds like I'm lying) Rosario was blonde, and JASON had the dark hair.  It was like they switched.  So Jason's hair was actually black!

My friend was like "Go and talk to her".  They knew I would have the drunk courage to actually do this.

So I went up to them and drunkenly told them that I was big fans, that they are beautiful people, and they have made our lives better with their beauty.  (I swear, something like that.)  Credit to them they were EXTREMELY gracious and much nicer than they had to be and they thanked me profusely and Rosario just about fell over herself laughing.

Rosario was TINNNNNNNNNY.  I always thought she was so curvaceous in pictures and in the movies but in person she's actually stick thin and she was wearing major stilettos.

I looked up a picture to show you, and it says this pic is from September 2004, which makes perfect sense.  Toronto International Film Festival happens every September and the celebrities descend upon us like aliens.

Jason was not much taller than Rosario in stilettos, if at all (and the stilettos were HIGH).  And he just seemed....... small.  We've all seen that Smirnoff Vodka ad where he obviously seems enormous and larger than life.  I always had such a big crush on Smith/Jason and when I saw him in person he just ...... did not seem like that.  Hahaha.  I'm sorry to say!  I cannot find a similar picture of how Jason looked.  I don't think he's famous enough to have his every hairstyle catalogued by the media. 

Wow this is so funny to me.  I so don't share this point of view.  I'd be totally fine with a man younger than me and/or completely out of my league.  Sure.  Send them my way!  😄

Hopefully no one here doubts your experience! I totally believe ya, just curious. I haven't seen anyone from SATC in person so I would have been so starstruck.

I'm glad they were both nice! I'm not surprised that Rosario is tiny. She looks like a skinny little thing in photos I've seen, and I know they say the camera adds some pounds. I even hear how women like Kim K, J.Lo and Beyonce are all small in person. Curvy, but still small. 

Yeah small guys can be a bit of a turnoff, especially to a taller woman. Tom Cruise is a handsome guy, but dude is tiny. Not sure if I could get into it. lol  

LMAO! Yeah I am totally down for gorgeous guys too, including ones younger than me. I will not complain if he steals my shine! I will say I'm not attracted to metrosexual men. That's about the only thing other than short where I might feel less like the woman in the relationship. A guy who's just really, really hot? No complaints here. 🙂

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Hopefully no one here doubts your experience! I totally believe ya, just curious. I haven't seen anyone from SATC in person so I would have been so starstruck.

I'm glad they were both nice! I'm not surprised that Rosario is tiny. She looks like a skinny little thing in photos I've seen, and I know they say the camera adds some pounds. I even hear how women like Kim K, J.Lo and Beyonce are all small in person. Curvy, but still small. 

Another one a friend of mine said was Blake Lively.  I don't think anyone expects Blake to be huge, but my friend said she was stiiiiiiiiiiick thin.

15 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I'm glad they were both nice! 

Rosario was incredibly nice.  And it's been so cool to see her in the news lately and her career still seems good.  I always tell people she's a nice person (from that one tiny meeting I had) 😄

15 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Tom Cruise is a handsome guy, but dude is tiny. Not sure if I could get into it. lol  

That's the funny thing. I personally know a 6+ feet tall couple who met Tom, and he DIDN'T look that small!  He didn't look much smaller than them.  And they have the picture to prove it!  Maybe everyone makes so much fun of Tom that he actually surpasses our expectations!  😄  (Or maybe it's lifts?  Maybe it's Maybelline) 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

LMAO! Yeah I am totally down for gorgeous guys too, including ones younger than me. I will not complain if he steals my shine! I will say I'm not attracted to metrosexual men. That's about the only thing other than short where I might feel less like the woman in the relationship. A guy who's just really, really hot? No complaints here. 🙂

I know exactly what you mean.  I like hot, but I'm not so into pretty.  It depends.  I have a friend who loooooves pretty, like Jonathan Rhys Meyers.  It's too much for me 😄

[ifionlyknew]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I know exactly what you mean.  I like hot, but I'm not so into pretty. 

I always use the George Clooney Brad Pitt comparison.  Going by the Ocean 11 years George was pretty but Brad was smoking hot.

I thought Smith was hot. I don't know if I thought any of the guys was pretty.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I always use the George Clooney Brad Pitt comparison.  Going by the Ocean 11 years George was pretty but Brad was smoking hot.

I thought Smith was hot. I don't know if I thought any of the guys was pretty.

I find Brad the pretty one of that pairing!  But he's Brad so he's kind of everything.

A beautiful guy was that model from Season 1.  Derek.  "Bone?"  "The Bone"?  But even he wasn't pretty.  And the naked guy that Samantha checks out in one of the movies..... Soooo hot and kind of pretty?  But really just hot 😄

[ifionlyknew]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I find Brad the pretty one of that pairing!  But he's Brad so he's kind of everything.

For me I base it on whether I would want to sleep with them.  I think George Clooney is nice to look at but I don't find him sexually attractive at all. But Brad?  In a fucking heartbeat.

[RealHousewife]

18 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I remember one episode..I think the one where Charlotte was quitting her job because she was marrying Trey.  She and Miranda had an argument over feminism and Charlotte stated feminism involved being able to choose what she wanted to do without bowing to pressure.

But at the end of the episode, Charlotte was a little saddened to be leaving her job (but wouldn't admit it to Miranda)..and I think Miranda had something happen that involved her missing work..and she found herself enjoying not working (but wouldn't admit it to anyone especially Charlotte).

So I do agree that Miranda was more contained about her desires.  A small part of her probably wanted kids and marriage, but didn't want to say it out loud.

All of those little nuances were missing from the 1st and, even more so, the 2nd movie.

I don't remember the exact argument about feminism, but I've heard lots of people say feminists are to blame for everything from women feeling forced to work and the subsequent issues kids have today (depression, suicide, school shootings, etc) due to mothers not being at home. I'm not saying there aren't folks who think women ought to work, especially if they're childfree, but feminism is by definition simply equal rights and opportunities. Most women work because even if they don't want to, they have to due to the economy. These days most households cannot be run under one income, especially if you have to support children. In real life, there aren't a ton of Bigs or Treys running around. 

Charlotte married a well-to-do man, and IRC she came from money. She didn't need to work, and she'd be fine money-wise if things didn't work out with Trey. She wouldn't end up on the street. However, it did seem a little premature to leave a career she loved. Was that were Miranda's concerns came from? I'd hate for my friend to lose a job that fulfilled her that she wouldn't be able to easily get again if there was no telling when she'd have kids or if her marriage would even work out. Sometimes even having a job you don't love but keeps you busy can keep you from getting too down. It gives you a reason to get out of bed in the morning. You get human interaction. There are lots of benefits. Now if Miranda thought, you need to try to be a boss babe type like me, that I don't agree with. 

Yes, I always got that from Miranda. She wasn't comfortable feeling vulnerable, even with her friends. I'm kind of the same way. You don't want to admit to wanting something that you might not ever get, especially when you genuinely aren't a Charlotte about it. Some of us sincerely would rather be single than with someone we don't love and get along great with. Some of us would rather be childfree if we have enough family, friends and passions for the human connection, love, and to keep us busy and excited about life. I'd imagine being single in NYC is probably a lot of fun if you're the type who enjoys going out and dating. Many people are super passionate about their demanding careers, and having kids on top of one is a lot to handle. Your priorities and what makes you happy can change as you get older though. It's what happened with me. I'm also a shy girl who doesn't live in an exciting city. A lot of my friends end up busy with their own families. Your parents get older, and it starts to dawn on you that you might end up all alone. You can always try to harder to maintain your friendships and to make new friends, but that SATC close-knit group of girlfriends isn't something we all have or something that comes easily if you don't already have it by college-age or if you moved to a different town. It's also really easy to make casual friends/acquaintances, but most friends simply aren't family where there is always mutual love like there is between a parent and a child. Carrie and Samantha seemed pretty happy childfree, and Samantha was happy single. I liked that the show featured women who all wanted different lives. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by RealHousewife

[Avabelle]

10 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

And Carrie realizes he was just unable to give what she wanted to her but was able to give it to this stick figure with no soul.  Believe me that hurts.  That happened to me.  When you makes excuses for why a man isn't committing to you and then he suddenly commits to someone else it's like a knife through the heart.  That being said upon a couple or several rewatches I don't know if I fault Big for not committing to Carrie at that time. It wasn't what he wanted.  I don't think I can blame him for that.

I agree but I hated that the show aka Carrie seemed to insinuate that he went for Natasha because of some deep rooted issues that wouldn’t let him love Carrie. That’s not real life. The affair wasn’t because he loved her - it was because his marriage wasn’t working and he needed an out. The most realistic thing about Carrie and Bigs relationship and how they ended up together was what happened after the affair. With the sexual tension and will he commit to me/won’t he commit to me and hurt dealt with - they actually formed an actual friendship without any pressure attached. She finally relaxed around him and he fell for her. I loved the various appearances he made in later seasons where they would just have dinner or chat. He seemed to really enjoy her company. 

 

22 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

  I was never a fan of Aidan but Aidan is a good person and I can't fault him for much.

I think Aidan is the the victim of being in a bad relationship. Carrie brought out the worst in him because for a lot of the time once she won him back she could be selfish. She was happy to live with him and go about her day to day but she didn’t seem to be invested long term and had no plans for marriage etc. I felt she was coasting with him. She was the Big in that relationship and like Big she didn’t want to be tied down to him and because of this it was selfish of her to seek him out for reconciliation. She also should never have accepted his proposal. 

And Aidan as a grown man should have run for the hills. Especially after she brought Big to his cabin. 

[RealHousewife]

10 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Yeah I'm going to sound superficial but part of my dislike for Steve is because I don't find David attractive at all. Add in the voice and that just makes it worse.  John Corbett is from my hometown.  About 20 years ago my husband was working at a restaurant and John was there. My husband told him my wife loves SATC and my husband said his only response was OK. And I have heard from other people when he is in town he acts like a dick.  I liked Chris Noth on Law & Order so that influenced me in my like of him on SATC. Hell I even liked him on the  Good Wife. Baryshnikov I didn't find attractive and I didn't like his character.  Ron Livingston is very cute.  His character was just a transition guy to get her to Alek.  I actually think him and Carrie were well suited for one another.

Well Samantha was interested in him at first because he was so hot.  But he turned out to be so much more.  My heart broke for him when Samantha went off with Richard at that party and Smith just waited for her to come back.  She knew she had hurt him and felt so badly about it.  Their relationship was my second favorite after Charlotte and Harry.

Oh wow! So IRL Aidan may be the asshole, and Big may be the nice guy? lol

Oh yes, that was a really moving episode. Smith was so gorgeous and young, but he had depth and cared deeply for Samantha. It was so sweet. I also remember when he shaved his head when Samantha had cancer. I'd say he's my favorite of all the men. I also love that they didn't write him as just a pretty boy. There's this idea that really good-looking guys are jerks, and it's not true or fair. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Oh wow! So IRL Aidan may be the asshole, and Big may be the nice guy? lol

Oh yes, that was a really moving episode. Smith was so gorgeous and young, but he had depth and cared deeply for Samantha. It was so sweet. I also remember when he shaved his head when Samantha had cancer. I'd say he's my favorite of all the men. I also love that they didn't write him as just a pretty boy. There's this idea that really good-looking guys are jerks, and it's not true or fair. 

I've always loved that he said he was fucked up for 8 years in Seattle, and that's why he's in AA.  It might sound weird to like that, but it's just so true to life and non-glamourous.  You look at Smith and you think he'll be hot, simple, but he was complex.  And Samantha didn't want to see that at first, either!

[RealHousewife]

58 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

I agree but I hated that the show aka Carrie seemed to insinuate that he went for Natasha because of some deep rooted issues that wouldn’t let him love Carrie. That’s not real life. The affair wasn’t because he loved her - it was because his marriage wasn’t working and he needed an out. The most realistic thing about Carrie and Bigs relationship and how they ended up together was what happened after the affair. With the sexual tension and will he commit to me/won’t he commit to me and hurt dealt with - they actually formed an actual friendship without any pressure attached. She finally relaxed around him and he fell for her. I loved the various appearances he made in later seasons where they would just have dinner or chat. He seemed to really enjoy her company. 

 

I think Aidan is the the victim of being in a bad relationship. Carrie brought out the worst in him because for a lot of the time once she won him back she could be selfish. She was happy to live with him and go about her day to day but she didn’t seem to be invested long term and had no plans for marriage etc. I felt she was coasting with him. She was the Big in that relationship and like Big she didn’t want to be tied down to him and because of this it was selfish of her to seek him out for reconciliation. She also should never have accepted his proposal. 

And Aidan as a grown man should have run for the hills. Especially after she brought Big to his cabin. 

Did they ever really address why on earth Big married Natasha when he had already been divorced and was commitment phobic? I know the girls wanted Carrie to believe it's because Natasha was a simple girl and Carrie was this intelligent, complex woman, but I never really bought that. Carrie had qualities that were annoying, but Big never gave the vibe he'd be open to settling down if he met a nice, non drama woman. He was supposed to just have commitment issues. The kind of man who had a lot of money and his choice of beautiful NY women, but didn't really want to settle down and deal with a wife and possible second divorce. I never thought Big wasn't attracted enough to Carrie either. A lot of men are perfectly happy with a cute, well-dressed woman with a banging figure. So Natasha's youth and model beauty weren't enough to make sense of Big's sudden engagement either. I don't recall any scenes where we were lead to believe Big surprisingly fell in love, any sparks with Natasha, or that she pushed Big to get married. IRC, it was just surprise engagement, boom marriage, and then almost instant divorce. 

Carrie really was the Big in her relationship with Aidan. 

True. Carrie was out of her mind there, even for Carrie!

[Ms Blue Jay]

55 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Did they ever really address why on earth Big married Natasha when he had already been divorced and was commitment phobic? I know the girls wanted Carrie to believe it's because Natasha was a simple girl and Carrie was this intelligent, complex woman, but I never really bought that.

Personally, I do buy it!  Because I've seen it happen in real life myself!  Maybe Natasha is just extremely good at playing the game, playing hard to get, she was unavailable but amenable, everything that Carrie wasn't!  

Look at how Big went so psycho over that Hollywood actor who he could never get ahold of.  He became a dumb idiot puppy dog around her simply because she was unavailable.  So stupid.  Carrie was always available to him and he couldn't commit to her.  Maybe he thinks someone has to appear to be a challenge to him or it isn't "worth" it.  

Edited January 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Personally, I do buy it!  Because I've seen it happen in real life myself!  Maybe Natasha is just extremely good at playing the game, playing hard to get, she was unavailable but amenable, everything that Carrie wasn't!  

Look at how Big went so psycho over that Hollywood actor who he could never get ahold of.  He became a dumb idiot puppy dog around her simply because she was unavailable.  So stupid.  Carrie was always available to him and he couldn't commit to her.  Maybe he thinks someone has to appear to be a challenge to him or it isn't "worth" it.  

Good point! Yes, desperation is so unattractive. I have actually wondered this about the Charlotte character. You can take someone who's physically attractive, nice, educated, good job, but if he/she is super eager and pushes relationships to process, it's very unattractive. You wonder, why does he/she try so damn hard? I guess I was still surprised by Big's engagement, and I wanted to know more about Natasha. 

[ifionlyknew]

13 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Yes, I always got that from Miranda. She wasn't comfortable feeling vulnerable, even with her friends.

Miranda and Samantha were similar that way.

13 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Some of us sincerely would rather be single than with someone we don't love and get along great with.

That I think was Miranda and Samantha.  They were strong independent women who were very career oriented.  Charlotte wanted a white picket fence (in reality a Park Ave. apartment) and was going to get that when the first opportunity rose which was of course Trey. Once she learned you can't always get what you want but sometimes  you get what  you need it allowed her to have a happy marriage with Harry. Carrie was somewhere in the middle.  She wanted the  happily ever after but with the right person.  She wanted it with Big, he wouldn't give it to her but Aidan was offering it to her and she didn't want it.  

12 hours ago, Avabelle said:

I agree but I hated that the show aka Carrie seemed to insinuate that he went for Natasha because of some deep rooted issues that wouldn’t let him love Carrie. That’s not real life. The affair wasn’t because he loved her - it was because his marriage wasn’t working and he needed an out. The most realistic thing about Carrie and Bigs relationship and how they ended up together was what happened after the affair. With the sexual tension and will he commit to me/won’t he commit to me and hurt dealt with - they actually formed an actual friendship without any pressure attached. She finally relaxed around him and he fell for her. I loved the various appearances he made in later seasons where they would just have dinner or chat. He seemed to really enjoy her company. 

I never thought Carrie and Big's relationship before he went to Paris was a serious relationship. They were dating.  I just don't think he saw her as someone he would marry. He was part of the society crowd in NYC I think there was an element of snobbery there.  Not so much that  he didn't think Carrie was good enough but that the people around him would think she wasn't good enough. Remember the party he took her to and she ran into an old friend who was the cater waiter?  But I do agree after she called off the engagement to Aidan and her and Big became actual friends he genuinely fell in love with her.

11 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Did they ever really address why on earth Big married Natasha when he had already been divorced and was commitment phobic?

I remember Big saying it was just easier with Natasha.  And I can see his point. With Carrie it was always drama.  I think Natasha was a lot like Charlotte. She came from money and expected to get married to someone who also had money.  She would never have been agreeable to just dating or living with him.  And something that always bothered me was Natasha misspelling a word on the note she sent Carrie. I just don't buy that. Natasha didn't seem dumb to me. I think the writers just did that to show yes Carrie is so much smarter than Natasha.

10 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I have actually wondered this about the Charlotte character. You can take someone who's physically attractive, nice, educated, good job, but if he/she is super eager and pushes relationships to process, it's very unattractive.

The way Charlotte acted with Trey when they met and got quickly engaged would not have worked with most men. He just went along with Charlotte wanting to get engaged.  And she almost blew it with Harry because once again she expected Harry to propose.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I still think that very smart people can make the you're/your mistake.  It's like a brain typo.   I often do it with to/too.  Obviously I know the difference, but my brain likes to leave the vicinity and write each interchangeably.  Anyways, the show and Carrie made it a way bigger deal than it is. 

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I remember Big saying it was just easier with Natasha.  And I can see his point. With Carrie it was always drama.  I think Natasha was a lot like Charlotte. She came from money and expected to get married to someone who also had money.  She would never have been agreeable to just dating or living with him. 

I think this is a good point.  If you raise your standards for yourself, then people have to meet them.

[Avabelle]

I think Big and Natasha were whirlwind. He was smitten by her and people can act fast when smitten and in love. Once the honeymoon phase wore off he was out the door. I buy him marrying her because I don’t think he was against the idea of commitment as he had married before. I think his phobia with Carrie was moreso to do with how insecure she was around him and he used the classic bachelor reluctance to commit as an excuse. She put so much pressure on that relationship at first and it made him uncomfortable. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Natasha seemed confident and more laid back..in comparison to Carrie.  She also was beautiful in a classic/conventional way.  So I could see why Big was drawn to that.

And I rewatched the 1st movie on Netflix..and realized both Big and Carrie were at fault for the failed wedding in different ways.

Big proposed to Carrie..which took her by surprise..even asking if he was sure.  Only after she wanted on the lease/mortgage of the new place.  So she let herself believe he would marry her..so when he hesitated..she was heart broken cause she didn't listen to her instincts.  He got cold feet understandably..especially after Miranda's rant.

Carrie got caught up in the wedding..going from a small wedding to 75 guests to 200+.  Big even said he was uncomfortable with the wedding getting so big..but she wouldn't listen.  She blocked his emails even when her assistant asked if she was sure..refused to listen to him or hear his side.  And she was upset with Miranda for not telling her about her rant to Big..but seeing how Carrie easily shut out Big..I can see why Miranda hesitated telling her (even Charlotte felt the same about telling Carrie).

But Charlotte's screaming No..and later cursing the day he was born were classic SATC moments for me.  She was the only one that pulled for Big consistently on the show.  And her being angry at Big had impact.

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

And I rewatched the 1st movie on Netflix..and realized both Big and Carrie were at fault for the failed wedding in different ways.

The wedding failed because they needed to make most of the movie about the four of them.  They could have written it that Carrie wanted some sort of commitment with the new apartment since she was giving up her old one and Big was hesitant and they could have split because of that.  I thought Carrie's dress was hideous.  Her having to be talked into something big (wedding and dress) rang false to me. Carrie was a fashionista. No way was she going to wear a plain white suit to get married in.  Her wearing it when they did get married at the court house I will hand wave as being symbolic. 

 I know we have discussed this before but I will forever call Carrie a hypocrite for thinking Miranda should forgive Steve for cheating on her while she was unwilling to even listen to Big ask for forgiveness.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

25 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

 I know we have discussed this before but I will forever call Carrie a hypocrite for thinking Miranda should forgive Steve for cheating on her while she was unwilling to even listen to Big ask for forgiveness.  

Yeah........ don't get me started.  Carrie and Sainted Steve are the untouchable saints who can do no wrong on this show.  Miranda is almost always in the wrong 😑😑

[RealHousewife]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I still think that very smart people can make the you're/your mistake.  It's like a brain typo.   I often do it with to/too.  Obviously I know the difference, but my brain likes to leave the vicinity and write each interchangeably.  Anyways, the show and Carrie made it a way bigger deal than it is. 

I think this is a good point.  If you raise your standards for yourself, then people have to meet them.

100%. I only figure people don't know you're from your if it's a repeated mistake. 

True! 

40 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yeah........ don't get me started.  Carrie and Sainted Steve are the untouchable saints who can do no wrong on this show.  Miranda is almost always in the wrong 😑😑

Do you think they portray Miranda as always in the wrong throughout the seasons or more in her relationship with Steve? 

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Do you think they portray Miranda as always in the wrong throughout the seasons or more in her relationship with Steve? 

I'd say in her relationships with Steve and Carrie.  Although, sometimes I agree more with Carrie and think that Miranda is in the wrong.  But in the first SATC movie when Carrie said Miranda HAD TO forgive Steve, Ugh, that's just insane.

Miranda usually treated Sam very well and they had a mutual respect.  I can see Charlotte being upset with Miranda's judgement about her career.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[JAYJAY1979]

I remember Miranda feeling guilt over her venting to Big about marriage, etc..leading Big.to ditch Carrie. She confided this to Charlotte, who correctly said that.Big was always weird/hesitant about marriage and it wasn't her fault.  And she was correct in saying not to tell Carrie about it at the time (when they got to Mexico).  I truly think Charlotte was right.

I loved her and Miranda's friendship.

[Scarlett45]

On 1/26/2021 at 6:26 PM, qtpye said:

There was a study that shows that a man's health greatly improves if he gets married but a woman's health goes down. Yet, it is we women that are the "ball and chain" that need to convince men to put a ring on it. 🙄🙄

In the long term- the length of a full human life span, marriage benefits men the most (heteronormative marriage I mean). In the short term marriage gives women access to resources and assistance raising children from infancy to adulthood; but in our society there are many more ways for a woman to get her social, emotional and even sexual needs met without marriage.
 

Steve benefited more from his marriage to Miranda than she did from her marriage to him. This would’ve been fine if we had seen Steve be more appreciative of all the hard work Miranda did and whom she was as a person.

On 1/27/2021 at 3:00 PM, Maysie said:

As for the move and Steve's mother, I don't remember much about that time period. I can understand wanting to raise your kid in an actual house instead of a high rise apartment and can absolutely understand wanting to take in your aging parent. Was he selfish about all that? Yes, I think he was. But I don't think those two items are actually out of line in any family dynamic. Where it gets dicey is to insist on these things and then relying on your partner to handle it all for you. I may be misremembering, but I seem to think that Miranda was  okay with the idea of having Steve's mother with them; I seem to recall Mrianda's devastation at the loss of her own mother and how Steve's appearance at the funeral meant so much to her. So I saw that as not so much as payback, but as doing what she would have wanted to opportunity to do for her own mother. Interestingly, when you look at what happened to real estate in Brooklyn, they probably did pretty damn well with that house at the end of it all. I have hipster friends that moved away from Brooklyn, back to Manhattan, because Brooklyn became too expensive.

The mother thing is the one thing I was 100% on Steve’s side on. Steve realized his mother was declining mentally and his first thought was to hire a caregiver and keep his mother in her own home- it was Miranda who suggested she move in and Magda take on some caregiving duties. That’s just fucking life. Parents get dementia. People get sick. When you say “for better or worse” that’s one of the things one can reasonably expect when you marry someone and they have a living parent. But I admit that I’ve had to care for elderly and disabled people since before I hit puberty so I don’t get the big deal. 

 

4 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I remember Miranda feeling guilt over her venting to Big about marriage, etc..leading Big.to ditch Carrie. She confided this to Charlotte, who correctly said that.Big was always weird/hesitant about marriage and it wasn't her fault.  And she was correct in saying not to tell Carrie about it at the time (when they got to Mexico).  I truly think Charlotte was right.

I loved her and Miranda's friendship.

Charlotte spoke only the truth. Miranda should’ve kept her mouth shut. 
 

I 100% blame Big for the failed wedding though. He was an asshole. This man knew he had issues about the wedding (he dated this woman off and on for 10yrs, expected her to live in an apartment with him, proposed and knew she had never been married before- hence why she wanted a big wedding) and rather than TALKING to her about it, he acts like a big ass baby, let’s her get dressed and show up, tells her “I’m not coming” and EMBARASSES her in front of everyone right before the ceremony was supposed to start. THEN his bitch ass self has a change of heart and decides “he’s ready now” and expects her to still be waiting. 
 

No he was an ass. I don’t even know why she would even want him after all of that. 

[BlueMoon81]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:24 AM, ifionlyknew said:

 

On 1/28/2021 at 10:11 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I love Golden Girls too but there is some interesting background stuff about how Bea Arthur hated Betty White and treated her accordingly.  Even Bea's son has stated this publicly.  I feel like that bled into the show because the women could be really harsh towards Rose and even hit her over the head with newspapers sometimes.  But I know what you mean, none of the women had control over the writing and that was a very good thing for writing the characters evenly.

For me, I don’t think Bea “hated” Betty, so much as just they didn’t get along. I think they had two distinctly different personalities, and they just didn’t mesh—it happens. I also don’t think that being buddies with Betty White should be the litmus test as to whether or not you’re a decent person. Bea lost the role of Maude on Broadway to Angels Lansbury (a role Bea wanted DESPERATELY to play), and the two women became lifelong friends. As for the writing on the show, Bea got the sharpest end of the stick in terms of her physical appearance being made fun of—even by Rose. The show went WAY TOO FAR in having every character act like Dorothy was a swamp creature who ate people’s faces for lunch 

Edited January 30, 2021 by BlueMoon81

[BlueMoon81]

15 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Up until the Hamptons party I thought Carrie was the one who was responsible for things not working with Big.  She wanted things he was unable to give her.  But then he shows up engaged to another woman.  And Carrie realizes he was just unable to give what she wanted to her but was able to give it to this stick figure with no soul.  Believe me that hurts.  That happened to me.  When you makes excuses for why a man isn't committing to you and then he suddenly commits to someone else it's like a knife through the heart.  That being said upon a couple or several rewatches I don't know if I fault Big for not committing to Carrie at that time. It wasn't what he wanted.  I don't think I can blame him for that.

 

I don’t get what Big did “wrong” at the Hamptons party, and never have. I understand Carrie’s feelings of shock and disappointment, but Big didn’t do anything wrong by getting into a relationship with Natasha—he and Carrie were broken up, and they hadn’t even been in contact in at least a couple of months (time for him to go to Paris, his deal to fall through and to meet Natasha). Should he have asked Carrie’s permission to date someone new, before he did?? He didn’t even know Carrie would be at that Hamptons party, and certainly didn’t plan to introduce her to Natasha in that awkward way. This is what I mean about the mythology of the show, in terms of Big. Carrie is the one who broke it off with Big. I get that seeing the ex with a new person is rough (I’ve been there before too), but the ex isn’t to blame for me being uncomfortable with them finding someone new...I am 

The only time that Big was an asshole to Carrie in my opinion was during his heart surgery recovery in “Domino Effect”...oh and when he tried to show up at her front stoop when she was about to have her last dinner in NYC before moving to Paris. And I’ve NEVER understood the narrative of Big “being afraid of committing to Carrie”—weren’t they in a monogamous relationship?? Didn’t they spend the night over each other’s places routinely?? Didn’t he tell her that he loved her?? He never cheated on her or anything either. So how did he have a phobia of commitment with Carrie?? I’ve always thought Carrie had a phobia of commitment to sanity and emotional maturity, to be honest 

Edited January 30, 2021 by BlueMoon81

[RealHousewife]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I 100% blame Big for the failed wedding though. He was an asshole. This man knew he had issues about the wedding (he dated this woman off and on for 10yrs, expected her to live in an apartment with him, proposed and knew she had never been married before- hence why she wanted a big wedding) and rather than TALKING to her about it, he acts like a big ass baby, let’s her get dressed and show up, tells her “I’m not coming” and EMBARASSES her in front of everyone right before the ceremony was supposed to start. THEN his bitch ass self has a change of heart and decides “he’s ready now” and expects her to still be waiting. 
 

No he was an ass. I don’t even know why she would even want him after all of that. 

All this! Wish I could like it ten times. What Big pulled was cruel and NOT Miranda's fault. Big was no kid/innocent to be so damn impressionable by a flippant comment from Miranda. He hurt Carrie deeply, embarrassed her publicly, and your wedding day, first one at that, is supposed to be one of the most special days of your life, for some the most special. 

I know right. It's not like he said he had to cancel a date last minute then realized he could make it after all. It was a wedding. How the hell did he think he could tell her he wasn't going to show just before the ceremony, and then think she'll be all okay to say I do when he suddenly decides he feels like getting married that day? WTF?!

[Ms Blue Jay]

That's sooooooo true.  A man in his 50s who can't be assertive enough to say to his FIANCEE I'm too scared to go through with this huge wedding?  AGGGGGGGh there's no excuse for that.  

[JAYJAY1979]

Sorry, it takes 2 to tango and after the way Carrie treated Aidan...the wedding fiasco was her karma.  She should have followed her instincts and not accepted his proposal.

I could understand a 20 something being swept up in the wedding, believing he was being sincere and being blindsided.  However, Carrie was a 40 something that had been doing the make up and break up with Big for 10+ years.  Her instincts had told her this would happen and she didn't listen to them.  And don't get me started on her actions in the 2nd movie.

[BlueMoon81]

23 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That's sooooooo true.  A man in his 50s who can't be assertive enough to say to his FIANCEE I'm too scared to go through with this huge wedding?  AGGGGGGGh there's no excuse for that.  

Or a woman in her 40s who can’t be considerate enough to her Fiancé to think about how a huge wedding would make them feel. A wedding is supposed to be a couple thing—not one person in that pairing pretending it’s their grand coronation. And let’s also not pretend that Big jilted her at the altar—he had last minute stage fright about getting married in a big pomp&circumstance wedding...then immediately snapped back into his senses. It’s not like he was regretting marrying Carrie period (if that were the case, they wouldn’t have gotten married at the film’s conclusion). I just have zero sympathy for Carrie, especially when the writing goes over the top in portraying her as the “wronged party” 

 

Ugh the writing for the films was just soooooo stupid, designed to make certain characters as the “bad people” who needed to be “redeemed” 

Edited January 31, 2021 by BlueMoon81

[WendyCR72]

I kind of get Big bailing. I mean, if I had to look at that ugly-ass BIRD adorning Carrie's veil, I'd hightail it for sure! 😛