S05.E10: The Stuff Dreams Are M...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Walt gets more bad news from the mayor. Vic does a strange favor. As Walt learns what's behind the lawsuit, Henry and Cady each face tribal rituals.

[dubbel zout]

I watched the whole season over the weekend, and while there are still things that exasperate me—e.g., Vic and Ferg are always shown putting on/wearing gloves at crime scenes, while Walt grubbies everything up with his bare hands—I really liked where the season went. The show is always really good at incorporating issues into the episodes without being preachy or condescending. The lawsuit had a nice twist at the very end. Walt realized he might want to start thinking about hanging up his sheriff's hat.

One thing I was deeply disappointed with was Vic's pregnancy. Oh, Show. It's kind of amusing to watch Billy Riggins hover, but was there really nothing else you could think of for her?

I hope we get another season, if for no other reason that to draw a line under everything. I really need to know what happens to Henry, the poor guy.

[Kohola3]

OMG, dubbel zout, why did you put spoilers in this thread????  Thanks a lot for ruining things for me!!!!  You were only supposed to be discussing this ONE EPIDODE.  Geez!

[dubbel zout]

All of these things were mentioned in this episode, so I don't see where the spoilers are. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Kohola3]

I apologize. I thought this was episode 1. not 10.  I am only watching one a week so don't want to know anything. I will have to double check which title I am reading!

Edited September 26, 2016 by Kohola3

[dubbel zout]

Never mind; confusion cleared up.

Edited September 26, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Heatsja]

I really love this show.  But I also really wish they'd resolved all this trial business this season.  It's so long between seasons (if we even get a next one).  I wish one season was enough to through this trial.

[zxy556575]

On 9/26/2016 at 2:53 PM, dubbel zout said:

I hope we get another season, if for no other reason that to draw a line under everything. I really need to know what happens to Henry, the poor guy.

Good lord. I thought this was the final season. It's never been a favorite show of mine although I've watched the whole thing, but it actually  managed to draw me in over the last 2-3 episodes and I was on the edge of my seat to know how everything would be resolved. Then a damned cliffhanger!

My hopes for the future are:
- Vic gets together with Travis and rebuffs Walt (because they clearly wanted us to see him deciding to choose her).
- Henry is saved (of course!) and he and Walt patch up their friendship.
- Cady becomes relevant or interesting in some way.
- Ferg get the credit and recognition at work that he deserves.
- Walt combs his hair and shaves once in a while.
- A new overarching mystery other than Nighthorse vs Malachi.
- I wouldn't mind if Walt did retire, although not sure how the show would continue.

And just to be contrary? I hope the new golf course resort is built, because it's not Walt's decision to make, or for him to lay some kind of sacred, personal claim to the land. I'm tired of Walt and his self-centered, selfish righteousness, if that wasn't obvious.

[dubbel zout]

My hope for the future is that Walt gets a cell phone and realizes it's not the devil's tool. Talk about selfishness. What I wouldn't give for Vic to finally snap and tell Walt she's not going to be his answering service anymore.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

I hope the new golf course resort is built, because it's not Walt's decision to make, or for him to lay some kind of sacred, personal claim to the land

Actually, I think it is Walt's personal property.  

[dubbel zout]

It is his property. If he loses the lawsuit, he'll most likely lose the land to pay the settlement/legal bills, which is what Barlow's estate lawyer was cackling about. With the extra dig being that the estate will be developed into a luxury golf resort.

[zxy556575]

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

It is his property. If he loses the lawsuit, he'll most likely lose the land to pay the settlement/legal bills, which is what Barlow's estate lawyer was cackling about. With the extra dig being that the estate will be developed into a luxury golf resort.

Ah, thanks. Then I wouldn't mind seeing him being brought low and losing the lawsuit but ... I don't want that ass Barlow to "win" either. Dilemma!

Walt is self-sabotaging and can't be bothered to work with or help his own attorney, plus I hold a grudge for how he treats people.

[mrsdalgliesh]

Binged the season this weekend.  I watch the show for the scenery (thank you, show, for frequently pulling back and giving us the vistas) and for the focus on the reservation and its woes.  I don't know of any other series that tries to address that.  So this season worked for me in those ways.

But oy, Walt was such a pain this season.  Self-righteous to the max.  I don't know if there are enough viewers to be in two camps or not, but I'm in the one that hopes Walt is wrong about Jacob.  Not that I want Jacob to be an angel, not at all.  I think his character consider himself a pragmatist, and something do unethical things for what he thinks are the right reasons.  Morally ambiguous.  What I **don't** want is for every move of his -- like hiring Cady and setting up the law office -- to be part of some singular vendetta to Get Walt.  If that happens, the show and I will not be friends anymore.

Horrible cliffhanger, but at least they let us in on why the lawsuit is happening.

[dubbel zout]

42 minutes ago, mrsdalgliesh said:

What I **don't** want is for every move of his -- like hiring Cady and setting up the law office -- to be part of some singular vendetta to Get Walt.

I agree. I don't think Jacob intentionally sets out to cross Walt; it happens mostly because Jacob isn't afraid to cut corners to get what he wants, and sometimes those corners aren't necessarily entirely legal. I forget what happened in earlier seasons to make Walt so entirely anti-Jacob (it doesn't matter), but he really was starting to sound a bit unhinged about him this season. Is Jacob going to be responsible for global warming and the screenplay to Glitter? (/Gilmore Girls) I think Jacob honestly wants to help the tribe, but he also wants to make a buck, and those aims don't always line up. It doesn't make Jacob evil incarnate. And Walt isn't exactly pure as the driven snow, either.

[zxy556575]

1 hour ago, mrsdalgliesh said:

But oy, Walt was such a pain this season. Self-righteous to the max.

 

14 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

And Walt isn't exactly pure as the driven snow, either.

Right!? That guy cuts corners and bends the law with the best of them, but somehow still believes he's the only upright man in town.

I watch because of the secondary cast and "life on the res" moments. Walt and Vic just get in the way of that. ;)

Also, the fight between Walt and Henry at the bar was not believably acted or choreographed. Just bad.

Edited October 3, 2016 by lordonia

[roughing it]

Quote

I don't know if there are enough viewers to be in two camps or not, but I'm in the one that hopes Walt is wrong about Jacob.

I'm hoping Walt is wrong about Jacob too.  Walt can't see the forest through the trees, meaning he is so intent on Jacob being "the bad guy" that that's where he goes every.single.time, without considering the fact that Jacob may not be involved with the Irish mob, like he claims.

Still rolling my eyes seeing Cady in braids at the ceremony.  Stereotypical much, show?

Am I the only who's seeing a future love match between Jacob and Cady?

[zxy556575]

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

Still rolling my eyes seeing Cady in braids at the ceremony.  Stereotypical much, show?

First Cady is upset and appalled that people on the res now trust her because she shot a white guy, then suddenly she's honored and touched about the adoption ceremony, even though it's being offered for the same "you're a warrior now" reason.

Edited October 3, 2016 by lordonia

[rocketinu]

Roughing It!

 

No I turned to my hubby and said Cady and Jacob are going to be an item and force Walt to go over the ledge.

[herculepoirot]

Scatterbrained thoughts:

I like Jacob. And I hope he and Cady get together.  If their trying to make him the villain; their doing a poor job of it. Didn't care for the mob story line. Not sure if this show can go on much more. I do not like the so-called attraction of Vic and Walt. I hope Travis is the father, love his character. And to someone who posted before: please Walt --shave and comb your hair!! Malachi--is becoming kinda hot!!  Why did they choose a chubby girl for Ferg? (and I am a chubby girl--he couldn't get a skinny one)

[ali59]

I'm getting tired of Walt's paranoia.  I believe Jacob (mostly).  I think he does have the tribe's best interest at heart and that he didn't know about Malachi's involving the Irish mob.  I thought for a minute there that Walt started to believe that Malachi was really the baddy but NOPE; it must be Jacob's fault.

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, ali59 said:

I think he does have the tribe's best interest at heart and that he didn't know about Malachi's involving the Irish mob.

It's not as if Malachi hasn't made his own side deals in the past, and Walt knows this. 

[snowwhyte]

Walt was so frustrating this season. He has people who care about him and would do anything for him but he is so sure that he is always right that he refuses to acknowledge their views or accept their help. Henry is such a caring and supportive friend. He does so much for Walt and that fight was just brutal. Walt didn't seem to understand that maybe this time Henry had reasons for doing things that had nothing to do with Walt. He was so dismissive of Cady and instead of being supportive after she killed someone took the opportunity to say i told you so. His behaviour towards his lawyer was disrespectful. If someone is working on your behalf the least you can do is answer their calls and attend important meetings. 

I've always had mixed feelings about Walt.. I like characters who have integrity and Walt has seemed kind and fair in the past but i feel he definitely became more unlikable this season. Oddly, i thought all the other characters became more likable. Vic seemed a bit more emotionally mature, Ferg really stepped up and often he and Ruby seem like the only professionals in that office. Cady might be naive but she clearly means well. Henry just never seems to catch a break and i just really want him to give him a hug. I really hope that next season they start repairing some of the relationships that suffered this season. 

[roughing it]

I wasn't sold on the Walt/Donna relationship.  Donna was nice, but kinda bland, and I didn't feel much chemistry between them.  I guess Walt felt the same.  As long as he doesn't go sniffing around Vic, I'll be ok.  (I don't think he will, that crush was always one sided.) 

I liked Walt's girlfriend from a couple of seasons ago.  Katie??

Edited October 5, 2016 by roughing it
forgot Katie' name

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, roughing it said:

I wasn't sold on the Walt/Donna relationship.  Donna was nice, but kinda bland, and I didn't feel much chemistry between them.  I guess Walt felt the same.

So did Donna. I liked that the relationship ended because they both realized it wasn't right for either of them. The scene where Donna unthinkingly pours Walt a glass of wine was good, because it showed they aren't really in synch with each other. And Walt couldn't be bothered to keep a bottle of wine at home for Donna says something, too.

[Clanstarling]

On 10/3/2016 at 11:32 AM, lordonia said:

First Cady is upset and appalled that people on the res now trust her because she shot a white guy, then suddenly she's honored and touched about the adoption ceremony, even though it's being offered for the same "you're a warrior now" reason.

I know, first it's (sad, horrified voice) "Oh my God they like me because I killed a man." Then it's (awed, Sally Field Oscar award voice) "Oh my God, they LIKE me, they really LIKE me, because I killed a man." Too strange. I wasn't too keen on those artistic hallucinations either. I didn't like the owl showing up though - they do seem to use it deliberately in the show as a harbinger of death.

I can't say I really enjoyed this season. There was a lot of complexity, which was good, but Walt became someone I not only didn't like, but actively disliked. I'd never cared that much for Cady, but his treatment of her was more like an abusive, controlling father, not one who loves and respects his daughter.

When he got the box with the toy soldier and toy Indian, I was sad and thought it was Henry's way of breaking up, as it were. Though I'm not sure what to make of the note. Did anyone understand it?

I liked Matthias becoming more complicated and likeable. Travis stepping up to be a father (ugh) and his consideration of Vic was great (even if he doesn't understand boundaries much - but then, he did grow up with that mother of his).

I liked Ferg and his girl. I think she's very pretty, and a little above Ferg's league. That is, until we find out what she's done in a different jurisdiction.

I also liked Jacob this season - one thing I did think was well done was that he played it so well it could have come down either way in terms of whether or not he was involved with the mob. I don't think so - mostly because Jacob seems a man who wants to be in control.

For a moment I thought the psycho was playing a con to get Walt or Vic out into a vulnerable position so his "family" could kill them. Or perhaps just Vic (a longer con). I felt bad that I was actively rooting for a miscarriage as a result of the fight.

Henry just keeps getting pounded and I'd like to see that stop.

[zxy556575]

4 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

When he got the box with the toy soldier and toy Indian, I was sad and thought it was Henry's way of breaking up, as it were. Though I'm not sure what to make of the note. Did anyone understand it?

I didn't get it either, sorry. I took it as a reminder from Henry to Walt of their shared history, but beyond that the note was perhaps deliberately inscrutable to the audience. A continuing puzzle for next season?

It's interesting to compare the "greedy" businessmen on the show -- Nighthorse vs Barlow Connally and Tucker Baggett. Jacob definitely wants to turn a profit and building a casino on the rez can be interpreted by some as bad for the tribe, but I think we've also seen that he has an altruistic side and does care about his culture and people. Even a straightforward crook like Malachi shows some vestiges of caring. On the other hand, the two white businessmen are altogether corrupt and venal, Barlow going so far as to murder his son in the name of profit. That frankly makes them less interesting to me, while Nighthorse remains intriguing as a character. He's both good and bad, as are we all, but I'm along for the ride to see which side he ultimately falls out on.

[stinkogingko]

I disliked Walt throughout most of this season. He's been blind to just about everyone and everything around him and to no good end. I did feel sorry for him when he realized what the game really was, and how completely he'd been played by Tucker Baggett. I hope the show wants us to be really questioning Walt, because he's otherwise almost ridiculous--that Monte Ford break in was idioitc. I'm not sure how they pull him back from this brink next year.

I've loved the greater focus on Matthias and Jacob. The show has let them be real characters, with both light and shade, and it's been easier this season to see Walt through their eyes. I really hope the show doesn't throw Jacob under the bus next season. He's Walt's best opponent and hopefully that'll make Walt a little smarter next year. I'm intrigued by Jacob's growing relationship with Cady but I'm also suspicious of Cady's adoption and Mandy. Jacob is deep and he's playing 10-dimensional chess.

Don't much like the Vic pregnancy/Travis relationship--why couldn't it be Eamonn?--but anything that takes Vic out of Walt's orbit is good. Ferg's girlfriend will turn out to be bent, I think. And more Henry and more Ruby next year please.

[Clanstarling]

28 minutes ago, stinkogingko said:

Don't much like the Vic pregnancy/Travis relationship--why couldn't it be Eamonn?-

I think Eamonn's still in the running, she did say he was the other possible father. I guess they're waiting until next season to have her talk to him about it.  I personally see Travis as fairly sweet, and pretty stand-up, all things considered. Not so great with boundaries - but then again, neither is Vic.

I agree with pretty much everything you said - especially the more Ruby part. I love that woman (and actress), and I think they should give her a lot more to do than just hand over messages.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, stinkogingko said:

I did feel sorry for him when he realized what the game really was, and how completely he'd been played by Tucker Baggett.

I might have felt sorry for Walt if he hadn't been such a jackass to his own lawyer, refusing to cooperate and blowing off meetings. He might have been able to settle with Baggett earlier if he (Walt) hadn't been so stubborn and self-righteous. But he was a jackass, and now he's facing the consequences of that. Baggett has an ax to grind, certainly, but Walt isn't helping.

1 hour ago, stinkogingko said:

Ferg's girlfriend will turn out to be bent, I think.

I mentioned this elsewhere: I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop whenever Ferg and his girlfriend are together.

[zxy556575]

On 10/5/2016 at 2:17 PM, snowwhyte said:

Ferg really stepped up and often he and Ruby seem like the only professionals in that office.

Ruby totally needs to be shown having a more active role! In my head, she and Ferg are already handling all the regular lawbreakers -- traffic accidents, petty theft, drunk and disorderly, noise complaints, etc. -- while Walt and Vic conduct their personal vendetta investigations.

You'd think the search for a permanent 3rd deputy would be more urgent since Walt is out of the office and ignoring his job 90% of the time.

[Tyro49]

I knew it! Walt had better sign his place over to Cady, pronto!! And she's having a vision of Henry - hope that means she's gonna save him.

[MsProudSooner]

I agree that Walt wasn't very likable this season, but I also appreciate the fact that the writers make their characters three dimensional - like real people.  

It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Mayor's conversation with Jacob.  I think Walt's obsession with Jacob is clouding his judgement.  On a scale of 1 - 10 with a 10 being completely evil, I think I would give Malachi a 9 and Jacob a 5 or 6.  It will be interesting to see how the writers resolve this and make Walt see the light.  He has a lot of fence mending to do with Cady & Henry.

Matthias has become one of my favorite characters.  I love Graham Greene as an actor - he plays a really good bad guy.

In reading the books, I found the history of Walt and Henry's friendship interesting.  I wish they would include more of that in the tv series.  

[MisterGlass]

I've watched this series off and on, sometimes to have something on in the background.  I actually like the extent that this is turning into a Greek tragedy, with the 'hero' undone by his own pride and actions.  Because really, Walt did bring most of this stuff on himself.  He's becoming the antagonist of his own story instead of the hero.

This season definitely had bad moments, but there was some real improvement in the treatment of the secondary characters.  Ferg finally got to have a storyline (and I hope the girlfriend is perfectly ordinary).  I really like the work with Jacob and Matthias.  They've stayed right on the line with Jacob and his mixed motives, and it's a good balance.  I hope he is in the clear as far as grand conspiracies, and is only shady in a big businessman sort of way.  Bringing Matthias more into the story may be the best move of the past two seasons.  He's in a tough position and he sincerely wants to see justice done, perhaps more than the sheriff.  I like the character.  Meanwhile Graham Greene is weaselly and  hateable as Malachi.

ETA: Mathematically speaking an asymptote is an invisible line that can be approached but never crossed.  I'm not sure what the line is here.

Edited October 30, 2016 by MisterGlass

[Beth64]

Why they had to go with the surprise pregnancy trope, I have no idea 

Edited October 30, 2016 by Beth64

[MsProudSooner]

On 10/30/2016 at 5:55 PM, Beth64 said:

Why they had to go with the surprise pregnancy trope, I have no idea 

I think it makes Vic a more interesting character.  I noticed that after the pregnancy test was positive, she had a chance to have a beer and chose not to.  Since they've announced that Season 6 will be the last season, it sets up to be a season full of choices for all our favorite characters.

[dubbel zout]

I think it smacks of lazy storytelling. The writers really can't think of anything else to do with Vic besides give her a pregnancy? That it's an unplanned pregnancy doesn't make it more interesting to me. I'm really disappointed the writers seem to be going down this road.

[Clanstarling]

I, for one, am tired of shows knocking up their characters left and right, and making vomiting the first clue. To me it's the ultimate act of desperation when they can't figure out what to do with a female character. Then add a little bit of "hey, why not make it so she can't be sure who the father is" for a little extra spice. 

It's disappointing to me.

[ratSenoL]

On 10/30/2016 at 3:47 PM, MisterGlass said:

I've watched this series off and on, sometimes to have something on in the background.  I actually like the extent that this is turning into a Greek tragedy, with the 'hero' undone by his own pride and actions.  Because really, Walt did bring most of this stuff on himself.  He's becoming the antagonist of his own story instead of the hero.

This season definitely had bad moments, but there was some real improvement in the treatment of the secondary characters.  Ferg finally got to have a storyline (and I hope the girlfriend is perfectly ordinary).  I really like the work with Jacob and Matthias.  They've stayed right on the line with Jacob and his mixed motives, and it's a good balance.  I hope he is in the clear as far as grand conspiracies, and is only shady in a big businessman sort of way.  Bringing Matthias more into the story may be the best move of the past two seasons.  He's in a tough position and he sincerely wants to see justice done, perhaps more than the sheriff.  I like the character.  Meanwhile Graham Greene is weaselly and  hateable as Malachi.

ETA: Mathematically speaking an asymptote is an invisible line that can be approached but never crossed.  I'm not sure what the line is here.

Thanks for putting the idea of a Greek tragedy into my mind.  Thinking of Walt's behavior in this season in this way makes it more palatable to me for some reason.  I enjoy the character in the books, but the show's Walt has really become self-righteous, self-absorbed, thoughtless, and tiresome in this season.  Maybe now that he sees the real game with the property, the old Walt will shine through, but I don't have much faith.

Thanks also for explaining what an asymptote is.  That also changed my take on the episode.  When I watched, I felt like it was a breakup, but if an asymptote is a line that can't really be crossed, then maybe Henry is telling Walt, "You're being an Ass, and you're so close to crossing that line, but you haven't yet."  Or so I hope.  In the books, the friendship between Henry and Walt is deep and rich and you just know they'll always have each other's backs no matter how much they might push each other's buttons. TV seldom does a good job of representing true friendships (between two men or two women), so I'm not surprised here.

I actually like Vic more this season than I have in awhile, mostly because they gave KS more to work with than just leer at Walt.  At first I hated the baby storyline, but it's letting the actress shine through and show us more of what I know she's capable of. 

I love Graham Greene as the bad guy; he looks like he's having a blast. He's a delight every time he appears on screen.

Mostly, I keep watching for the Henry and Matthias storylines; I like Jacob, too.  I love that their characters are complex and that they don't always make good choices, but they usually make choices intent on helping their people or those they love.

I'm still really annoyed with Walt, but I'll probably watch final season when it comes around.

[fayster]

Would Walt have been 'smart' enough to have been recording his conversation with Barlow's lawyer/partner? 

[Kohola3]

He'd have to have something to record it on.  No Cell Phone Walt wouldn't have anything and if he did he probably wouldn't know how to record with it.  Good idea, though.

[Skycatcher]

On 1/26/2017 at 10:15 AM, ratSenoL said:

Mostly, I keep watching for the Henry and Matthias storylines; I like Jacob, too.  I love that their characters are complex and that they don't always make good choices, but they usually make choices intent on helping their people or those they love.

They could just reduce the white characters (I'm so over Walt, Cady, and Vic) and change the name of the show to "Standing Bear" or "Nighthorse" and I'd be happy. And I especially like that TPTB brought Matthias forward more for this season.  I really enjoyed his part in the story.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Skycatcher

[Reishe]

On 10/3/2016 at 0:57 PM, roughing it said:

Still rolling my eyes seeing Cady in braids at the ceremony.

The braids might also have been chosen to make Cady look more childlike (theme of new beginnings, childlike openness), b/c in non-Indian U.S. culture braids are typically worn by younger girls, and it might also have been to help her look more attractive in the sweat, if they didn't like the way she looked with damp hair. I'm not saying it can't be cultural appropriation, just offering other motivations. 

I've always hated the way the Cady character has been handled. Too naive, never holding her cards close enough to her chest. Being adopted into the tribe is only the latest. Okay, she shot a guy and she opened up a law office. We know she genuinely wants to help, but I wish they had waited until she had put in some time on the rez, formed more bonds with people, before taking that step. 

On 2/8/2017 at 6:36 PM, Skycatcher said:

And I especially like that TPTB brought Matthias forward more for this season.

I agree to that. In a show filled with men on their own Batman crusades, he's solid and yet not-boring.

As for Vic's pregnancy, I agree with everyone else who is frustrated by it. As far as the show has told us anything, really, about Vic, we know that the one thing in her life that is her anchor is that she is a cop. It's the one thing she seems to be competent at, it's the part of her life that is stable and meaningful to her. But it is a job that appears to have endless hours, and gets her injured on a regular basis. While I know there are police officers who are moms out there, I would think that for Vic to be a single mother, without much of a support system (Travis notwithstanding), remaining a cop (in Absaroca, where there is a murder a week and she gets beaten up regularly) would be ridiculously hard. So she's got some choices to make. And judging from her face when she heard the heartbeat, I suspect termination of the pregnancy isn't on the table. I've read that the next (final) season will be short, so they won't have much time to wrap this up. Hard to see where they will go. I can almost see her choosing not to get a paternity test and declaring Travis to be the father on the birth certificate, giving him primary custody, the way it's played out so far. [Ducking to avoid projectiles; I'm just saying the writers might make this happen.]

Agree with everyone else that Walt has become insufferable and his schtick has played out its welcome. He hires job candidates based on literature discussions, but he's unwilling to see his own entitlement in refusing to carry a cell phone. Also curious how the writers put a bow on this story.

[Clanstarling]

40 minutes ago, Reishe said:

The braids might also have been chosen to make Cady look more childlike (theme of new beginnings, childlike openness), b/c in non-Indian U.S. culture braids are typically worn by younger girls, and it might also have been to help her look more attractive in the sweat, if they didn't like the way she looked with damp hair. I'm not saying it can't be cultural appropriation, just offering other motivations. 

If Cady had been doing anything else, those reasons would make sense. But she's participating in a native American ceremony, on a show that has been very sensitive to the culture. So they made that choice specifically.

So they were either insensitive to the issue (which seems unlikely for this show), or they very likely thought it appropriate for the ceremony of being adopted into the tribe. Perhaps it's traditional when someone is adopted into a tribe that they wear clothes and dress their hair in the tribal fashion as a matter of respect. I've known white women who married Asian Indian men in traditional ceremonies who wore the saris, got the henna tattoos, the whole shebang. Is that appropriation?

I don't know enough to judge.

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, Reishe said:

As far as the show has told us anything, really, about Vic, we know that the one thing in her life that is her anchor is that she is a cop. It's the one thing she seems to be competent at, it's the part of her life that is stable and meaningful to her.

I think that's a big part of how wrong this all is.  I can't see how this is going to play out well and God forbid they lose their entire excellence in writing and marry her off (I'm not getting into the "who is best for Vic" arguments) or and turn her into a stay at home mom doing some cheesy detective work or something. I would just be horrified.

3 hours ago, Reishe said:

 I've read that the next (final) season will be short, so they won't have much time to wrap this up.

It's no shorter than the other Netflix seasons, it's all 10 episodes although the episodes are normally more than an hour long.  We already know that it will have to start with the rescue of Standing Bear (they can't let him lay out there for 6 months) so that means she will still be newly pregnant when the season starts.  And please, no ridiculous "Five Months Later"  captions at the beginning of episode two!

[Reishe]

14 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

It's no shorter than the other Netflix seasons, it's all 10 episodes

Sorry, I had read elsewhere that it would only be six episodes.

[Kohola3]

1 minute ago, Reishe said:

Sorry, I had read elsewhere that it would only be six episodes.

Thankfully no!  We're all sad enough!

[eskimo]

Nighthorse is one of my favorite characters.  Early on I was sure he was the bad guy to beat all bad guys in Absaroca County, but things aren't quite so black and white anymore, and I appreciate that.  The grey areas are the most interesting for me.  There's just something about his affect that keeps you guessing.  I bet when he orders a BigMac it sounds a little sinister.  

My main complaint with this show has been this thing they've been trying to push between Vic and Walt.  IMO, there is NO chemistry there and it feels very forced and unnatural.  Some May/December relationships are genuine, so it's not the age gap here, but I just see more of a fatherly type of connection with these two.  Please show, kill that whole thing in the first 5 min of the first episode and bury it in the desert. 

Does anybody know when the final season airs?  And does Netflix release new seasons at once, or air one at a time like regular stations?

[snowwhyte]

Season 6 is probably going to be sometime this Autumn. They haven't got the official date yet but the last season was released in September so hopefully it'll be September again.

[Kohola3]

43 minutes ago, eskimo said:

I bet when he orders a BigMac it sounds a little sinister.  

A Martinez is great, isn't he?  I waver back and forth on Nighthorse but I think he's neither totally pragmatic nor totally altruistic.  As you said, the gray areas are the most interesting.

And I agree with the Walt/Vic pairing. I see no chemistry. I see her longing for him but I only see friendship and caring on his side.  But there are a whole legion of others who think they belong together.  Fingers crossed Walt stays single. I think he'll never be able to love anyone else like he loved Martha.

[snowwhyte]

The more obsessive Walt gets about Nighthorse the more I think Nighthorse isn't that bad. I think he is probably a pretty shady business guy but the way Walt acts you'd think he was the ultimate evil or something. Did we ever learn the basis of their conflict? Was it just the building of the casino?