Upon First Viewing...: New Viewers to the Buffyverse

[Jack Shaftoe]

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While I loathe Xander, I can actually sympathize with his S5 arc. He's becoming increasingly self-aware, something his character has desperately needed since the beginning.

Well, I for one wouldn't call dating a serial killer and becoming ever more irrelevant as a member of the Scooby Gang "becoming increasingly self-aware". Xander is certainly not aware at all how hypocritical he is being in regards to tolerating Anya, compared to Angel. Not that any other character treats Anya's murderous past with any degree of seriousness, mind you, so this is more of a general problem than a Xander problem but still, I can't see it as a positive development. Did I mention how I hate the whole "Anya, the funny murderer whom we treat as a human with irritating quirks " thing? She is a great comic relief but one of the worst written characters I have ever seen.

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She's supposed to be 14 but she acts like a 10 year old.

IIRC, the writers originally wrote Dawn as 9 or 10 year old, then cast MT but didn't bother rewriting the character to reflect her increased age.

[KingOfHearts]

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Well, I for one wouldn't call dating a serial killer and becoming ever more irrelevant as a member of the Scooby Gang "becoming increasingly self-aware". 

Well, putting Anya aside, I've always thought of Xander as dead weight to the Scooby Gang. (Beyond what some may affectionately call moral support.) In the past, he always spoke loudly of his opinions as if he had something to contribute. Now it has become more apparent that he was just doing that to mask his insecurities. In high school, he had classes to go to and time to make up his mind about life. Now that it's over, he's being pushed to act beyond talking. In the dream episode, we saw that come to a head when his father confronted him and later when he saw his double exercise his potential. He's done being the underachiever. I'm interested to see if that actually goes anywhere. 

As a side note, I have no idea how he was able to afford that expensive-looking apartment. (Did I miss something?) 

Edited February 16, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Jack Shaftoe]

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Well, putting Anya aside, I've always thought of Xander as dead weight to the Scooby Gang. (Beyond what some may affectionately call moral support.) In the past, he always spoke loudly of his opinions as if he had something to contribute.

In the first two seasons Xander arguably saved Buffy's life more times more than all the other characters combined (in The Harvest, Prophecy Girl, Phases, Halloween, etc.). When Buffy spent a summer in LA, Xander was the leader of  the Scoobies' vampire slaying efforts which were rather successful. Whether one likes him or not, I don't see how he can be described as dead weight in terms of contribution to the monster slaying efforts.

Of course, starting from season 3, the writers usually tried to pretend that this never happened and treated us to "shocking twists" in episodes like The Zeppo and The Replacement  along the lines of "see, Xander isn't actually useless!". Sorry writers, but I already knew that. The Replacement has a particularly infuriating exchange between Xander and Willow:

XANDER: But I never help. I get in trouble and Buffy saves me.
WILLOW: That's not true! Sometimes we all helped save you.

Really, Willow, you don't remember Xander saving Buffy or yourself quite a few times? What a terrible character assassinating moment, just to help sell the "twist" that Xander isn't a complete loser.

[Loandbehold]

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As a side note, I have no idea how he was able to afford that expensive-looking apartment. (Did I miss something?) 

Xander received a promotion instead of being fired when the current construction job ended.

[Splash]

I always viewed The Zeppo and The Replacement as how Xander views himself.  He has such low self-esteem that he doesn't believe that he's a valuable member of the team and that all the times he's saved people are just flukes and he just got lucky somehow.  

I actually love The Replacement because it does such a great job of showing how strongly your brain will lie to you when you have depression.  He can't see that he's as important to the team as he is; there has to be some sort of magic spell in order for him to make any real contributions.  We know that's wrong, but he can't see that because his brain won't let him.

[Dev F]

4 hours ago, Splash said:

I always viewed The Zeppo and The Replacement as how Xander views himself.  He has such low self-esteem that he doesn't believe that he's a valuable member of the team and that all the times he's saved people are just flukes and he just got lucky somehow. 

Yeah, "The Zeppo" is actually pretty careful to draw a distinction between the story Xander thinks is happening -- everyone is ignoring him because they think he's useless -- and what's actually happening, which is that they're distracted by an impending crisis and simply don't realize that he has his own thing going on. Giles actually tells him, "We may all be called upon to fight when it happens," so it's not like they actually don't want him around; the situation just accelerates quicker than they expected and they don't have time to think about bringing him into it.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I would love to believe that The Zeppo and The Replacement have a deeper meaning, some sort of message relying on Xander being an unreliable narrator but I just don't buy that. Xander doesn't merely think that he is marginalized and useless, he is indeed marginalized and mostly useless after season 2.

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Giles actually tells him, "We may all be called upon to fight when it happens," so it's not like they actually don't want him around...

But they don't want him around, even before they knew there was an impending apocalypse:

Buffy: Or both. A-and, you know, with the pain and the death, maybe you shouldn't be leaping into the fray like that. M-maybe you should be... fray-adjacent.

[Dee]

7 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Xander doesn't merely think that he is marginalized and useless, he is indeed marginalized and mostly useless after season 2.

After effects of "The Lie." 

[AnnaRose]

On 12/15/2016 at 4:35 PM, taanja said:

See. I saw it as Spike seeking his soul. On purpose. He WANTS to be the kind of man that wouldn't hurt the woman he loves.

and one of my problems with Angel and his soul is that when he gets his "moments of pleasure" (yes they happen more than once) and loses his soul -- he revels in being evil ----Simply relishes it. He always has to have his soul forcibly "put back in" or however one words that. Where as Spike sought his soul- because he wants to be a good man- for Buffy!

Oh and notice Spike is evil yes--- but not nasty evil like Angel is when he doesn't have a soul. Obviously I don't like the Angel character very much. and I LOVE Spike. So there is that.

 

On 12/15/2016 at 4:05 PM, taanja said:

 peaceout you will find many mixed emotions among Buffy fans concerning season 6 & 7. I personally loved all the seasons -- for different reasons but I love season 6 BECAUSE of the Buffy/Spike hook up. But I will admit I never really liked Angel and Buffy together. I know!  I know! unpopular opinion.

I watched the Angel series for one season only and never went back. I found it lackluster compared to BTVS

I'm with you Taanja!  I hated the Angel/Angelus character and much preferred the Buffy/Spike relationship.  I never found Angel attractive in any way either, so that didn't help.  I remember thinking that he seemed like a creepy pedophile when they showed him watching/stalking young Buffy.   

I thought Spike was far superior, both souled and unsouled.  And I think it speaks volumes that Spike sought out his soul to be a better 'man', while Angel was cursed with his.  Also, though some argue that Spike fighting for his soul and enduring all that torture was just because he wanted to try to win favor with Buffy... I don't really buy that, especially when I consider his devotion to Dawn and helping the Scoobies even after Buffy died.  I like to think that it's because he was such a good person - sensitive, and deeply honorable and moral - in his previous life (especially compared to Angel) that he was able to retain some humanity later on.  (Especially compared to Angelus who was the epitome of Evil.)   

I haven't watched my DVDs lately, but when I do, I will probably have to either FF through the Angel scenes or go over to the Unpopular Opinions thread to vent. ;) 

[Jack Shaftoe]

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I like to think that it's because he was such a good person - sensitive, and deeply honorable and moral - in his previous life (especially compared to Angel) that he was able to retain some humanity later on.  (Especially compared to Angelus who was the epitome of Evil.)   

Soulless Spike was just as evil as soulless Angel sans soul or any other soulless vampire for that matter. It's just that some are lazier and less creative in their murders, tortures and rapes. Which doesn't make them any less of an example of pure evil. Which is the very reason being turned into a vampire is so tragic and horrible in the first place. Even if I were to agree that Spike miraculously changed once he was chipped and fell in lust, I mean "love" with Buffy, up until that point he had more a hundred years of serial murders behind him and enjoyed that way of life so much he tried to kill himself mere days after being chipped an unable to kill and torture any more. If vampirism is something one can fight off with the power of true love, why would Spike need a soul anyway? If he wasn't pure evil then he is guilty for all those murders he committed - guilty without the supernatural insanity excuse that he would have if we regard vampirism as some unstoppable force which turns into victims into creatures of pure evil.

In short, Spike cannot get credit for fighting for his soul without at the same time getting the full blame for all the crimes he committed while he was soulless. I mean, I don't like Angel much (understatement alert) but I have never blamed him for not fighting for his soul - that's not how vampirism worked in the Buffyverse until there was the need to turn Spike into (a nauseatingly) romantic hero in the clumsiest of fashions. And, of course, if vampires are not pure evil, then Buffy and her friends are all specieist serial killers who never once stopped to think whether random vampire number 456 doesn't deserve as much of a chance to reform as the one Spike got.

[AnnaRose]

4 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Soulless Spike was just as evil as soulless Angel sans soul or any other soulless vampire for that matter.

Haha.  Sure... I can just picture Angelus keeping his promise to a dead Buffy to look after Dawn even after she was gone, like Spike did.  Not!

I get it. Most everyone here is a Angel fan and ships him with Buffy.  I won't be posting here any longer.

I just wanted to thank the OP for their posts.  Very well-written and enjoyable to read.

[Jazzy24]

6 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Soulless Spike was just as evil as soulless Angel sans soul or any other soulless vampire for that matter. It's just that some are lazier and less creative in their murders, tortures and rapes. Which doesn't make them any less of an example of pure evil. Which is the very reason being turned into a vampire is so tragic and horrible in the first place. Even if I were to agree that Spike miraculously changed once he was chipped and fell in lust, I mean "love" with Buffy, up until that point he had more a hundred years of serial murders behind him and enjoyed that way of life so much he tried to kill himself mere days after being chipped an unable to kill and torture any more. If vampirism is something one can fight off with the power of true love, why would Spike need a soul anyway? If he wasn't pure evil then he is guilty for all those murders he committed - guilty without the supernatural insanity excuse that he would have if we regard vampirism as some unstoppable force which turns into victims into creatures of pure evil.

In short, Spike cannot get credit for fighting for his soul without at the same time getting the full blame for all the crimes he committed while he was soulless. I mean, I don't like Angel much (understatement alert) but I have never blamed him for not fighting for his soul - that's not how vampirism worked in the Buffyverse until there was the need to turn Spike into (a nauseatingly) romantic hero in the clumsiest of fashions. And, of course, if vampires are not pure evil, then Buffy and her friends are all specieist serial killers who never once stopped to think whether random vampire number 456 doesn't deserve as much of a chance to reform as the one Spike got.

Soulless Spike was the same as Spike with a soul, I never understood how Spike could have the same personality even with the souls while Angel was as different as night and day without a soul as Angelus. 

And Angel fought for his soul/humanity everyday all day. Just cause Spike went through some trials for his soul to get back in Buffy's good graces doesn't make him better than Angel in any way. Angel went through hell, monsters and all kinds of shit for his soul. 

[romantic idiot]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:13 PM, AnnaRose said:

Haha.  Sure... I can just picture Angelus keeping his promise to a dead Buffy to look after Dawn even after she was gone, like Spike did.  Not!

I get it. Most everyone here is a Angel fan and ships him with Buffy.  I won't be posting here any longer.

I just wanted to thank the OP for their posts.  Very well-written and enjoyable to read.

I hate the Spike arc because it makes Buffy the monster and serial killer who kills babies before they can grow up to fall in love and get a soul of their own.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 10:05 AM, peaceout said:

Hi everyone. So as I mentioned in the small talk thread, first time viewer here. So far I'm up to Season Two. I wasn't actually that spoiled about the show at all. My younger siblings were very much into the show when it originally aired and spent years trying to get me hooked on it, to no avail. Recently, with one of them having moved in to my place for a little while, I finally decided to give it a shot. I know very basic info like Buffy's death (other than the brief Season One) apparently occurs at some point and there were some spin offs I think.

What can I say so far...I don't know why I so actively resisted watching this show for so long because I am loving it! I loved the first episode but I'll admit with the next few episodes I began to wonder again if this was really the show for me till I think the ep 'Angel' came along. That stretch of eps till 'Prophecy Girl' kept me in. And then Season Two just got so much better. I already have a list of eps like 'School Hard', 'Surprise', 'Innocence', 'Passion', 'I Only Have Eyes For You', 'Becoming 1 & 2' that I LOVE. But honestly, although these are faves, there really has been no ep I disliked, not even ones that sound really bad on paper like 'No Assembly Required', 'Bad Eggs' or 'Go Fisj.' There have been redeeming moments in each ep.

I think it's because I'm finding myself really invested in the characters. I think the main group, Buffy, Willow, Xander, Giles and Cordelia all gel great together. Of the recurring characters, I love Oz and am rooting for him and Willow because they're adorable. All of Season One I really wanted Buffy to wake her eyes up to Xander but then Xander and Cordelia happened and I love them. They are probably my favourite couple right now. The problem I'm having with Buffy and Angel right now is that I know Angel will be back, or that he has a spin off. And I'm not sure how I can ever like the idea of him and Buffy together again after his turn to Angelus. I think their chemistry is great, in faxct, in recent times I have rarely seen two actors with as great chemistry as Sarah and David. And I totally bought the slayer-vamp forbidden love thing but then he went to asshole-ville and I just.. Really hated him. I guess you could say the actor did a good job in getting me to hate him because honestly, Jenny Calendar's murder and that stunt he pulled with Buffy's mom. Hate.

There's not a lot that hasn't made sense so far. I think Spike and Buffy teaming up made total sense. Spike and Drusilla are such interesting characters. But them and this Angelus's last plan are a few of the only things confusing me. Spike and Dru, particularly Spike seem different. Different than normal vamps. Is this intentional? Will Spike be back because I love this character. Also, Angelus's plan to destroy the world made no sense to me. I was totally buying his obsession with Buffy and his general desire to keep the world around to create havoc. Then why destroy it all, including the opportunity to continue tormenting Buffy? What did I miss? The only explanation I can think of, that I discussed with my brother too, is that after I Only Have Eyes For You, he felt something more for Buffy than he cared or wanted to. Maybe he realized that if he went on facing her, a part of him might turn back? Go soft? And he doesn;t want that, hence taking the world out. 

I think for many people Angel was the ep which really turned the show up to 11. S2 brought a run of quality and even the weaker eps had their high points, normally comedy or character moments. 

 You wanted Bander? Most people still held out for Xillow (and some of us still do). Yes, Dru and Spike are very different vamps, even the writers acknowledge than in their commentaries. As for Angelus, perhaps he felt his obsession had run its' course or wanted Buffy to suffer in hell? Or just with Acathla the opportunity came along, remember he also tried with The Judge.  

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 11:56 AM, trudi-tru said:

This will be very funny soon.

It's been a while since I've done a proper rewatch, but I remember the plan was to wake Acathla and have it send the world to hell, where it would be more fun for vamps and demons. At least that is where Angel ends up.

The Big Bads plans never made much sense to me in general.

You make a good point although Angelus' plan was one of the more sensible. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 2:28 PM, Erratic said:

I can't wait to hear what you think of Season Three :)

i agree that Season One feels a lot more dated than the other seasons, so I am glad that it can still hook people.

Yes, the technology especially does seem to make it off its' time but WTTH/The Harvest, Angel and Prophecy Girl are still more than enough to show the series' true potential . 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎15‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 7:48 PM, joelene said:

I haven't rewatched Buffy in years (I think I got drained after watching it around 15 times in my teens and 20s) but you got me jonezing for a rewatch! Angel too! Which I really hope you'll watch too and write about because it's really great and I love these posts!

Yeah, always fun for a series you love and watch other people enjoying it virgin!

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 11:35 AM, peaceout said:

Yes, exactly! I loved that we got a darker version and stayed with that darker version. Hell, even Buffy herself is killed at the end. Dark stuff, and that juxtaposed with Giles's desperation to believe the other world has to be better, just made for brilliant TV.

Ok, so I'm up to Consequences now. Still loving it, and I can already see what you mean. Season three eps are really flowing into one another so coherently and seamlessly, even with seemingly standalone eps, like Zeppo. Which, I LOVED. How bizarre and surreal, but I loved it. 

Faith has really grown on me. I can totally see her desperately wanting to belong but she's unable to tap into her own moral compass. I especially loved her conversation with Buffy at the docks in Consequences. That whole thing Faith said, you can really tell how she's almost conditioned herself to believe that. She won't accept any alternative POV. And now with her joining forces with the Mayor, I just can't see how she won't go from worse to worst. 

Wesley is a major annoyance right now, but the actor is playing the hell out of it.

The Watchers's Council is surely evil? As in, how can I accept that slayers and their watchers have been taking orders like this for centuries? But it's a really interesting set up, to have the guys in charge be the ones you potentially have to worry about the most. Love this twist. 

My brother tells me I should definitely give Angel a go after I'm done with Buffy. So I am planning to, yes. At this point, the thing that's really driving me nuts is the one moment of happiness, orgasm basically during sex, can't it come from anyone? Is it Buffy specific? I mean, did Angel not have sex at all after he was cursed? Will he ever be able to? I know, too many questions. I have to go with it. But it's annoying because I know Angel is going off to his show soon and part of me wishes he wouldn't because I love these two together so much. Having said that, no sex ever really does equal no relationship ever. So it makes sense.

Aw, this makes me sad, knowing definitively no more Xander/Cordelia. I am so curious about what will happen to her though. I hope she doesn't get vamped!

I am really looking forward to getting through all the seasons now. My brother tells me his favourite stretch of the show was season three to five, so let's see where I fall by the end of the show.

Very well put, one of the greatest things about the Buffyverse is how it defies your expectations

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 2:30 PM, Erratic said:

The next episode, 'Doppelgangland' is just wonderful in every way.

That is all.

Darn right, you know who proved so popular she even got her own web cartoon series. 

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 11:35 AM, peaceout said:

Yes, exactly! I loved that we got a darker version and stayed with that darker version. Hell, even Buffy herself is killed at the end. Dark stuff, and that juxtaposed with Giles's desperation to believe the other world has to be better, just made for brilliant TV.

Ok, so I'm up to Consequences now. Still loving it, and I can already see what you mean. Season three eps are really flowing into one another so coherently and seamlessly, even with seemingly standalone eps, like Zeppo. Which, I LOVED. How bizarre and surreal, but I loved it. 

Faith has really grown on me. I can totally see her desperately wanting to belong but she's unable to tap into her own moral compass. I especially loved her conversation with Buffy at the docks in Consequences. That whole thing Faith said, you can really tell how she's almost conditioned herself to believe that. She won't accept any alternative POV. And now with her joining forces with the Mayor, I just can't see how she won't go from worse to worst. 

Wesley is a major annoyance right now, but the actor is playing the hell out of it.

The Watchers's Council is surely evil? As in, how can I accept that slayers and their watchers have been taking orders like this for centuries? But it's a really interesting set up, to have the guys in charge be the ones you potentially have to worry about the most. Love this twist. 

My brother tells me I should definitely give Angel a go after I'm done with Buffy. So I am planning to, yes. At this point, the thing that's really driving me nuts is the one moment of happiness, orgasm basically during sex, can't it come from anyone? Is it Buffy specific? I mean, did Angel not have sex at all after he was cursed? Will he ever be able to? I know, too many questions. I have to go with it. But it's annoying because I know Angel is going off to his show soon and part of me wishes he wouldn't because I love these two together so much. Having said that, no sex ever really does equal no relationship ever. So it makes sense.

Aw, this makes me sad, knowing definitively no more Xander/Cordelia. I am so curious about what will happen to her though. I hope she doesn't get vamped!

I am really looking forward to getting through all the seasons now. My brother tells me his favourite stretch of the show was season three to five, so let's see where I fall by the end of the show.

Oh wait until you see what happens to Wes

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 10:59 PM, Loandbehold said:

Or. as I like to call it, "The Ballet O'Death."

That's a great ref for it. 

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 11:35 AM, peaceout said:

Yes, exactly! I loved that we got a darker version and stayed with that darker version. Hell, even Buffy herself is killed at the end. Dark stuff, and that juxtaposed with Giles's desperation to believe the other world has to be better, just made for brilliant TV.

Ok, so I'm up to Consequences now. Still loving it, and I can already see what you mean. Season three eps are really flowing into one another so coherently and seamlessly, even with seemingly standalone eps, like Zeppo. Which, I LOVED. How bizarre and surreal, but I loved it. 

Faith has really grown on me. I can totally see her desperately wanting to belong but she's unable to tap into her own moral compass. I especially loved her conversation with Buffy at the docks in Consequences. That whole thing Faith said, you can really tell how she's almost conditioned herself to believe that. She won't accept any alternative POV. And now with her joining forces with the Mayor, I just can't see how she won't go from worse to worst. 

Wesley is a major annoyance right now, but the actor is playing the hell out of it.

The Watchers's Council is surely evil? As in, how can I accept that slayers and their watchers have been taking orders like this for centuries? But it's a really interesting set up, to have the guys in charge be the ones you potentially have to worry about the most. Love this twist. 

My brother tells me I should definitely give Angel a go after I'm done with Buffy. So I am planning to, yes. At this point, the thing that's really driving me nuts is the one moment of happiness, orgasm basically during sex, can't it come from anyone? Is it Buffy specific? I mean, did Angel not have sex at all after he was cursed? Will he ever be able to? I know, too many questions. I have to go with it. But it's annoying because I know Angel is going off to his show soon and part of me wishes he wouldn't because I love these two together so much. Having said that, no sex ever really does equal no relationship ever. So it makes sense.

Aw, this makes me sad, knowing definitively no more Xander/Cordelia. I am so curious about what will happen to her though. I hope she doesn't get vamped!

I am really looking forward to getting through all the seasons now. My brother tells me his favourite stretch of the show was season three to five, so let's see where I fall by the end of the show.

It's so hard to think of Wes now in his early form, a tribute to both writers and actor. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎15‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 7:40 PM, peaceout said:

I LOVED Dopplegangland! This wonderful show! I really can't believe I resisted watching the show all these years. I think season three has been one of the most satisfying seasons of TV I've ever watched. What a finish. Faith's storyline was handled so well and so true to her character where even as she drifted further and further into the dark side, you could still see somewhere, somehow maybe there was a slayer in there. There was something about her last look at the gang in Choices as she's walking away. It's about the blade of course, but there seems to be a deeper subtext too, about no going back now. And then the dream. Maybe in a way that was the good part, or whatever left of it, trying to reach through unwittingly to Buffy. Great stuff. Great fight, too, with her and Buffy in Graduation 1.

Wesley even moved from an annoyance that amused to someone I can genuinely see growing into some kind of a character this lot can work with. Nicely done.

Oh, Xander and Cordy. Although I still really love them, I can't help but love the way their chapter was ultimately brought to a close there, from The Prom till Graduation 2. I hated the sniping and the hatred and it was a nice sort of closure, Xander buying the dress for her and seeking her forgiveness one last time and Cordelia thanking him for not just the dress, but probably making peace with what happened. You could really tell in their interactions in Graduation 1 & 2 that things had changed. They were friends. With history. Loved these two. 

I hope Willow and Oz atleast stay together, because damn. Xander and Cordy and Buffy and Angel down. I'm not sure what to think of Anya. Not even sure she'll be back. I think the actress did a great job but there's something just a tad offputting about Anya. 

One of the things I really loved about this season was Willow's progression almost as second in command to Giles, really. In the absence of Buffy and Giles, somehow it just felt organic to have Willow take charge. But my absolute favourite thing about this season was the bond between the characters. This group has been growing closer and closer since season one and by this point you can tell they really would take a bullet for one another. I particularly love Buffy and Gile's dynamic. He really is her father, in ever way that should be, and I think the actors play beautifully off each other.

Buffy and Angel. Dammit. Why am I so invested in them? But again, so many questions and lingering thoughts. That blood sucking scene? Please tell me everyone else noticed it as the hopefully not so subtle metaphor or euphimism for sex. Because that's what it looked like. And boy did David and Sarah play the hell out of that scene. Just, wow. But I can't help but think, doesn't this sort of bond them, potentially forever? I mean, the vampire and slayer in love and said vampire drank from said slayer. That has to mean something. I didn't find the same level of closure with them as I did for Xander and Cordelia.

One of my own issues with the last half of the season was Cordelia's diminished role. I hope she has a lot more to do next season.

So many favourite eps this season. But honestly, the whole stretch of eps from Bad Girls onwards is just brilliant TV. That last scene of the season itself, although I missed Giles, but in a way, how fitting to end this chapter of the show with Bffy, Xander, Cordt, Willow and Oz. 

The mayor, who I wasn't reallly feeling initially really turned out to be quite a character by the end. With Angelus, although Acathla world ending and all, it all felt intimate and personal but with they mayor, the stakes were raised. Very nicely done.

On to season four!

Most would say Buffy peaked at this point, you're right on the Cordy front, with Faith etc in the mix the lesser characters tended to get squeezed out slightly. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎03‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:12 PM, romantic idiot said:

To be fair that's true of Angel too, and, to a lesser extent, Xander.

And for Willow too?

On ‎05‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:16 AM, trudi-tru said:

The meeting wasn't shown on Angel either and no more details are given.

 

I strongly disagree with this. Buffy never even tries to confide in her friends. They aren't given a chance to listen to her. Part of my intense dislike of Season 6 is the writers isolating Buffy on purpose so the Spike is the only person she can turn to. Case in point: Giles leaving. I know tha actor wanted to spend more time in UK but the writers could have another way to work around instead of making him abandon Buffy when she's at her weakest.

It is dealt with in the comics. 

 You must remember, it was Buffy's friends who pulled her back from heaven, she CAN'T confide in them and doesn't want to burden Giles and Dawn?

On ‎05‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 12:14 PM, buffynut said:

peaceout loved reading your thoughts on season 6. It reminded me of things I'd forgotten. In fact, I don't remember anything about a missing Buffy/Angel meeting. So glad other posters were able to answer your questions.

I watched the first few seasons over and over, but by season 6 I think I only watched as they aired, so I remember the main things that happened, but not the little details.  The only exception is Once More With Feeling, which I watched many times.  It blew me away with how good it was. And not just the singing, but how it moved the story along. I will have to see if there are any videos of it on Youtube so I can watch some of my favourite performances

And you call yourself a Buffy nut?

On ‎06‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:05 AM, peaceout said:

Thanks nosleepforme and trudi-tru for answering my questions! I had no idea about the different networks. It makes sense then for a crossover to be difficult and in a way it makes me appreciate the writers more that atleast they still added this little part in about a Buffy-Angel meeting at all. It would be very easy to just ignore that Angel exists at all. But the Buffy/Angel fan in me is really disappointed by this. So this means no more crossovers ever? No more Buffy and Angel in a scene together? 

Thanks! I'm up to Gone now.

As far as the debate about Buffy not talking to her friends vs her friends not talking to her, I didn't mean to imply her friends chose to ignore her or that Buffy was all gung-ho about talking to them, because she clearly wasn't. I think the situation, the way everything fell into place, was such that when  Buffy came home, where Spike seemed much calmer, quieter, when the Scoobies burst in, they were all frenetic and 'we got you out.' etc. Buffy gravitated towards Spike when she should have confided in her friends, agreed. But I can see why she did. I don't think the situation painted her or her friends in a bad light. They were each just responding as best they could.

On Buffy's depression with being pulled out of heaven, again, I'm just saying I can see why she would be depressed. She may have been only 21, but a good chunk of of her life revolved around violence, mayhem, death, constant pressures of constant end of world scenarios, and so on. I can completely buy her being at peace with checking out in The Gift. She was ready, I bought that. Now, her continued bad decisions post depression. That's another matter.

Because like I said in my earlier post I think, I get why Buffy gravitated towards Spike and it makes sense for her to be distracting herself with someone who absolutely worships her. My fear was it's all ok now, when Spike is in 'hero' mode, and channeling his image through his perception of Buffy's opinion of him. But what if that changes? What if Buffy loses interest or sees someone else? What will happen then?  It's dangerous. And everything Smashed-Gone has just made me realize that I think my fears might not be so crazy after all.

I have no idea or theories on why Spike can harm Buffy but not other humans. But it's interesting that the first thing he does is attempt to bite someone. He is ultimately held back because of the chip, not a soul. He repeatedly tells Buffy he loves her and in his own head, I believe he believes that. And his life revolves completely  around her, that much is obvious. But that's what makes this potentially so dangerous. Buffy doesn't seem to be realizing how quickly Spike has the potential to go unhinged. All the ingredients are there, including his ability to hurt Buffy. I really can't imagine where her heads at. he's had several opportunities to back out of things with Spike, yet every time she actively chooses not to. I've never wanted to genuinely smack her upside down the head so much. I just can't see this turning out well.

Amy de-ratting was interesting but a disappointment in terms of how she's woven into this magic addiction storyline. I'm not sure how either Amy or Willow got addicted so much, so quickly that they had to seek out that Rack guy. I appreciate that Willow is atleast trying to change. Gone was an interesting ep for her in that sense. I really regained my love for her in that ep, in fact, because I could see how hard it was for her to stay away from magic but she was giving it everything she had not to go back to it. Of course, my fundamental problem with this is the addiction itself. Yes, she's been doing more magic in the last couple of years than before, but what has suddenly made her addicted? And more importantly, how is a scenario where Willow never does any magic, ever, ok to anyone in the Scoobies? It's a ridiculous notion. Surely, there has to be another way around this. I miss Giles.

So the trio of nemesis-is-es, lol, is out. I have to admit that whole scene was hilarious. But they're still more annoying than funny. I feel the urge to skip their scenes and I haven't felt like skipping scenes since a couple of eps in season 4. 

These last three eps have really tested my patience in a lot of ways. But I still can't wait for the next episode so I don't know what that says about me, lol. Clearly I'm addicted. 

I buy it, Buffy's status just confuses the chip, the mystical and the mechanical don't mix (as we see with the terrible Adam). And Spike is evil and will remain so when he has no soul. 

Amy is an interesting character, the path not taken. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎16‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 3:27 AM, GreenScreenFX said:

I highly recommend watching Buffy and Angel at the same time. Buffy then Angel concurrently. It's the way they were aired in real time... And the continuity is preserved. Watching Angel (the series) after finishing Buffy (the series) will leave gaps in logic. There are many cross-over episodes.

 

Half of the Buffy cast moved to Angel... So think of it as a part 2 of Buffy. It's not a new show, just the other half of the same universe.

Absolutely, only way to watch it, that way you get the in jokes and crossovers, especially for eps like Fool For Love. 

On ‎06‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:34 AM, trudi-tru said:

There's one more.

 

The writers said so. Magic addiction makes no sense at all. We have been seeing people use magic since the first season and Giles actively encouraged Willow to pursue it when she was a teenager yet, all of a sudden, magic is equated to drugs, complete with trips to the local dealer to get a fix and withdrawal symptoms.

In case it wasn't obvious, I violently dislike pretty much everything about season 6.

As with most things it's a metaphor, Willow practicing magic isn't wrong no more than her drinking but in moderation? When you start bringing your friends back from the dead that's pretty extreme. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎14‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:28 AM, peaceout said:

I'm up till Conversations with Dead People. Still really loving this season. In fact, I honestly do think this has been one of the strongest runs of initial eps throughout the series. I found both Selfless and Conversations to be exceptional eps and I literally LOL'd so many times during Him, it was great. I'm just waiting for the ball to drop at this point with what I've been hearing about the rest of the season and I'm so scared! Because it'll be that much harder, considering how much I'm loving the season so far!

Selfless was just brilliant. On all levels, but wow, Emma Caulfield was particularly amazing. This ep really hit me in the gut. Seeing Anya's journey mapped out like that, makes me both nervous for her as a character, because in a strange way this almost felt like a send off ep, or a last love letter before farewell. I too, thought at the end of the ep, well, where can they go with Anya from here? But I really hope the character sticks around because this show needs her and what the actress brings to the table. And I really realized during the ep, that over the years I haven't just grown to love Xander and Anya so much, but I also really enjoy watching the Anya and Willow dynamic. What I also really liked about this ep was that in the scene where Buffy and Xander are arguing, I could see myself agreeing with both perspectives at various stages of their conversation. The Buffy and Angel fan in me of course was absolutely and unexpectedly delighted at the declaration of love because, I'm hopeless like that lol. But very interesting callbacks, gave that entire scene more depth, made it richer. This ep also made me realize what an unsung character Dahoffrin (spelling?) is. I've always enjoyed his scenes, all of them and this ep just proves why. Because he can be eloquent, witty, caring, smarmy and scary as hell. Great stuff. Was sad to see Halfrek go because I think the actress was just superb. 

Him was almost jarring to watch, initially after the excellent ep before it but it really grew on me by the end. Felt like a very good throwback  to seasons 2 and 3. I loved all the Xander and Spike scenes. I remembered how great these two are in their scenes together. My favourite part was when they're going to get the guy's jacket and it seems like they're about to do this great, elaborate scheme and then basically they just end up running like two school boys and yank the jacket off him, lol. And even the part where the principal is all cluelessly sitting in his office and he has no idea about the background shennanigans. Hilarious. The bewitched Willow and Anya scenes were fantastic as well. 

Conversations with Dead People was the other ep I simply adored. What a terrific way to further the plot and characters in this really interesting sub-ep format. I loved all the parts of the ep to varying degrees, but surprisingly, Jonathon's death really got to me. In a way, what was remarkable was that he finally go itt. He finally became self aware and that made his murder that much more poignant. Andrew can just die now. I get that he was apparently being manipulated by that creepy as F vision of Warren but that's just it. He is so easily manipulated I just want to scream in frustration. It's not endearing, it's just annoying. 

The other really creepy part of the ep were the Dawn scenes. I have to admit, I was genuinely creeped out during a few bits. Dawn sold that desperation to speak to her mom really well. Buffy and the psych 101 vamp dude's scenes were brilliant. Great dissection of Buffy as where she stands right now at this point in her life. That entire scene was such a reminder of one of the reasons I fell in love with this show, the way the writing just completely turns an otherwise predictable premise or scenario into a totally different direction. Loved it. 

By the time I was done with the ep, and having seen the final Willow and 'Cassie' scene, I think I might know what's going on here with regards to the villain of the season but I'm not quite sure. I'm almost afraid to post about it because it's probably totally off base and/or incredibly stupid. Or I'm right and I've been equally stupid in just not having it figured out by now, lol. But basically the way I'm seeing it is that this force tends to appear in the guise of dead people. To everyone, Spike, Willow, Dawn, Andrew. And given that they're all talking to dead people, I have to assume it's connected. And it's a single force. This force also just revealed that it seems to be targetting specific people that could perhaps pose a potential threat. By getting Willow to off herself, you're taking out a powerful witch and ally of Buffy's. By having Dawn question Buffy, it alienates her from her sister, causing pain/distraction to Buffy. By having Spike kill, (because he has to be doing this under the influence of this force, since he not only has the chip but also a soul now) it's further pushing him down the path of no return. This seems very similar to the modus operandi of one of the villains we saw in season three. It was that terrific ep where Angel gets these visions and goes half insane but Buffy is able to restore his faith in himself and them just enough to get him to come back. For the life of me I can neither remember the name of the ep nor the villain's name. But essentially, it was trying to take Angel out of the game because he's a powerful ally. Or even a powerful figure in his own right. This, and particularly what Cassie said, seems to suggest it's the same force. But I just can't seem to figure out where Jonathon factors in all of this. Plus, there's also the question of those random girls being murdered. So that makes me think not so much and perhaps we are dealing with a new entity here. 

I guess, hoping that I'll find out soon?

That's interesting. Season 6 was definitely light on Dawn in the first few eps so in contrast to that, yes this season definitely has much more focus on her. But I don't find it any moreso than the focus on her in season 5. But I think because I'm watching the seeasons all back to back in quick succession, my reactions are probably different than everyone who watched in real time because you guys wete coming off of season 6 and season 5 seemed a long time ago. And in contrast to the previous season, definitely way more Dawn.

She's a great actress. Completely switched things up in both her eps and did wonderfully with each material.

Hooray! Someone else who appreciates Him! I knew there had to be another one out there somewhere. Yes, Selfless redefines Anya wonderfully and Cassie took Tara's role an dialogue, something that will occur again later. 

On ‎14‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:03 PM, Delphi said:

Season 7 was one of my favorite seasons as well, despite the problems later on in it.  I especially liked the early episodes.

@peaceout the episode you were referring to in season 3 was called Amends.  Also I'm shocked, shocked at how quickly your getting through the series. 

Hooray! Someone else who likes s7! 2 in one day! I'm not shocked, imagine if you had a boxset and could work through eps of Buffy/Angel virgin? How could anyone resist?

On ‎15‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 2:41 PM, romantic idiot said:

I liked the way it ended, for what it's worth :o) it was still a good series to watch. 

Definitely!

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎16‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:04 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

Maybe Amber was pissed because Tara was only put in the opening credits in the very episode in which she was killed. I have not seen this kind of thing in any other show.

But yes, the scene with Tara rather than Cassie, as it is in the shooting script sounds awesome, it might have easily been the best scene in season 7. Not that this would have been much of an achievement as most of the season makes watching paint dry seem incredibly exciting but still.

I doubt it, that was something Joss always wanted to do, intended to do it with Jesse in s1. I remember watching it at a convention for the first time and people cheered when Tara appeared in the titles and then wept afterwards.  

On ‎17‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:46 AM, peaceout said:

So I'm up to 'Get It Done' now. Before anything else, I have a few questions that are really bugging me. About the Potential slayers, I don't get how the system works. From what we knew so far, when one slayer dies, another is activated. But now we're being told that there are lots and lots of potential slayers, each with their own set of watchers even? Now, on some level this makes sense. For one thing, it harks back to what Kendra said in season two, that she was raised (I think?) by her watcher and trained by him since she was a little girl because her parents had given her to him. This makes sense now as they must have known she was a potential. Plus, lots of potential slayers around also makes the notion of quite so many  watchers at the Watcher's Council more believable now. Having said that, why do some girls know they are potentials while others don't? Because Buffy clearly had no idea she was a potential slayer. Am I just really confused about this or were other people at the time as well?

Second, I'm not sure I get what the demon eye told Anya and Giles about the First's timing. How exactly did bringing Buffy back cause a disturbance and in what? Enough to have the First now decide to attack? 

Third, how old are the potentials supposed to be? In the bar scene from Potential I think, Rhona mentioned they were a bunch of 15 year olds but then Kennedy is at the Bronze drinking with Willow. Are there varying ages?

Ok, now with that out of the way, lol. I must be very annoying in constantly asking you guys these questions, please bear with me! 

I'm still enjoying the season, but I can see why it might have been divisive now, because while there are a lot of parts from a lot of different eps that I'm loving, on the whole, the storyline seems too confusing and with regards to what exactly the villain wants to do once it eliminates the slayer line. I feel with past villains, there was always a very clear goal they had in mind, but with the First, what is it exactly? Is it getting rid of the slayers so its army or Torakhans (spelling?) can take over? Plus, the First's periods of 'remissions' don't seem to make sense to me. It should be going full steam ahead, if anything. Also, with such an all consuming, all pervasive force like the First, wouldn't its effects be felt elsewhere as well, outside of Sunnydale? I'm curious whether this storyline had any repurcussions or links to the Angel season of this year?

Wow, I ended up asking even more questions didn't I?!

There's been some great stuff though that I've really enjoyed though. I love that Giles is back, though majorly pissed that we never got a proper reunion thanks to the 'is he the First' fakeout. I absolutely could not stop laughing at Giles and Chao Ann's scenes and the return of the gory flashcards from Hush. I loved Buffy, Willow and Xander together in 'Showtime', the way they pulled their plan off. Great scene and I have to admit, cheesily as it was done, I totally loved the way she ended up killing the vampire. I liked 'Potential', and this season, Dawn is really working for me.  I can completely see her initial wistfulness in the ep because at the start of the season, it's her being trained by Buffy. But I remember mentioning this before also, but Dawn's contributions to the group don't necessarily have to be in the form of physically fighting, although she has gotten better at that too. But I can also see her in a more research based, almost watcher like capacity too. And I LOVED the last scene of the ep with Dawn and Xander. Oh, Xander. He so often says the exactly the thing the other person wants/needs to hear. Very well written and acted scene. I did not see the the twist with Principal Wood coming but I did figure out he was the New York slayer's son who was killed by Spike in that car scene. Interesting. I can't see this ending well, though. It'll be messy and complicated, now that Spike has a soul. For the most part, I also really enjoyed 'Get It Done.' I think this was a confirmation of what we already either knew or sort of figured out, that ultimately the slayer does indeed have something of the demon within her. That was heartbreaking though, to hear how the original slayer was created. I liked Willow doing magic, dammit! I miss it. Not wanting the world to go to hell of course but her being confident and in control. 

About the Potentials, I have mixed opinions. Rhona was working my lat nerve in her first ep, but she's not whining anymore so she's OK. I like Molly the most I think, but Vi (Vy?) and Amanda are fine too. I was actually really liking Kennedy until 'Get It Done.' I really appreciated that while a lot of the other girls were constantly complaining, she was all about getting to fight and make herself useful. Despite not finding her and Willow to have much chemistry, and generally disliking 'The Killer in Me' ep, I even got on board the romantic angle because I thought it might do good for Willow. But really, I wanted to smack her in Get It Done. The sense of entitlement was overwhelmingly nasty. Both with the other potentials and Buffy. At this point, she's on my shitlist. Willow can do so much better. 

I was very, very pleased to see Spike killing the demon in 'Get It Done.' Fun fight. This meek version of Spike wasn't quite working for me. Apparently his leather coat gives him his mojo back too, but boy did that not sit well with Wood. 

The one thing I'm flat out hating right now is the inclusion of Andrew in the fold. I'm sorry, yes, I know we keep getting reminded how a lot of the slayer's 'people are killers' but none of that makes Andrew's presence OK. I'll admit, he's funny sometimes but why is he there exactly? What does he bring to the mix? Are they ever going to really seriously sit down with him and make him understand exactly what he did? His flippant attitude gets on my nerves. 

I can't believe I only have 7 more eps left! Unreal, how much I'm going to miss it. 

For the most part people's favourite Potentials are always Vi and Amanda and everyone hates Rhona. Quite amazed you like Molly, Gaws blimey Mary Poppins!

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎17‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:03 AM, nosleepforme said:

There has never been given a proper explanation for why Buffy didn't know she was a potential, but you can you fanwank it with the theory that there were so many potential slayers all over the world that it is impossible for the Watcher's Council to take every potential slayer into account in regards to who they train before the next slayer's calling.

 

I think they kept that rather vague as well. I've got not explanation for that.

 

Most of the potentials are teenagers between 15 and 18, I believe. Kennedy mentioned in Potential though that she was older than all the other potentials. I believe Kennedy is only older because they decided to pair her off with Willow.

 

The First was too abstract of a concept to be honest. Even after I have seen the season multiple times, I don't really know what the ultimate plan really was, except for maybe the Apocalypse. There was one throwaway line in one of the later episodes that I thought was interesting. I put it in a spoiler tag because while it's nothing that really happened, it still eliminates ideas that you might have about the season ending.

  Reveal hidden contents

In one episode the First states that it wants to become a corporeal being and be able to feel its victims' heads snap in its hands. Which is why I thought that the season was going to end with the First becoming corporeal and Buffy fighting it. 

But they never extended on that one line.

 

I hated that storyline too. It was really dumb, as if all the other characters wouldn't touch Giles even once in the time that he was with them.

 

I loved Dawn that season. So mature and no longer acting like a little kid. Too bad she got so much less to do once the potentials showed up.

 

The potentials are generally very unpopular. I think Amanda was the only potential anyone really cared about throughout the original run. I think most fans were pissed that they were stealing so much screen time from more beloved characters like Anya and Xander. I am not sure if it was such a good decision to introduce so many new characters in the final season with little time to flesh them out. 

 

As for Kennedy, she's probably the most hated character of the entire show, along with Riley. Joss brought her onto the show to illustrate that life goes on, but I think he also introduced her to calm down the Lesbian fanbase which was still upset over Tara's death. I liked Kennedy, because the actress playing her had a lot of vulnerability in her, but I do agree that she was incredibly bossy and not a good fit with Willow.

 

Also, as annoying as most of the potentials are, I give them a lot of leeway, because they don't know if they can trust Buffy and the gang with their lives and that must also be a terrifying situation to be in.

 

Andrew is just there, because the writers liked the actor and writing for a nerdy character as comic relief. He really has no reason to be on the show at this point, but there is an episode that deals with Andrew and what he has done. 

Yeah, that was the shame about the Potentials, they left little time for the core four and Dawnie, just as people were really beginning to appreciate the latter. I think Andrew comes to the fore and it works with the series' idea of redemption. I don't think Kennedy was the most hated character on the show, there are other competitors. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎18‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 3:00 PM, peaceout said:

Thanks nosleepforme! For all the explanations.

I watched Storyteller and Lies My Parents Told Me last night. Storyteller went a long way in helping me understand Andrew's character. He really does live in his own fantasy bubble, where he's never responsible for any of his actions and always put the onus on others. I get it. Problem is, I still don't like him. The ep made me understand him better but not necessarily grow to like him. He's funny in certain scenes but on the whole, he just feels like an intrusion. I'd much rather have had Jonathon be alive. Despite being so Andrew centric, I didn't hate the ep. In fact I LOL'd at several moments, like the slo-mo narration and the 'we are as Gods' bit. 

I can't express how much I disliked Lies My Parents Told Me. This is the first time ever, that I have outright hated an ep of this show. Maybe hate is a strong word because I did actually really like the Spike flashback scenes but on the whole I just really hate the ep for fracturing the Buffy and Giles relationship like this. It really felt like I was watching someone else's bizarro version of Buffy and Giles. And their conflict was over Spike, no less. Spike?! The ep made me dislike both Buffy and Giles, separately and together, something I didn't think was possible. I don't mind characters fighting or having disagreements, it adds depth to a close relationship/bond because you know that no matter what the two people have unconditional love for each other and will find a way back to one another. And I have no doubt (hopefully?!) that will be the case with Buffy and Giles too. But I hated the petty nastiness of their conflict here. 

Last five eps! 

Ooooh, chew they slowly. Then watch Angel.

On ‎18‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 4:53 PM, joelene said:

Yes! The worst episode of the series for me. It made me hate everyone involved.

Really? One of my favourites!

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:54 AM, GreenScreenFX said:

Well golly.

You still have 111 episodes of Angel to fill some of the gaps.

Yes and when she finishes those she will be truly deprived like the rest of us!

[Vanessa1214]

On 2/15/2017 at 1:06 AM, Dev F said:

Honestly, I think a large and generally unacknowledged reason why the series feels different after season 4 is because the casting gets significantly less creative.  You start getting more and more guest stars who are generic pretty/handsome instead of unique and interesting. It's the difference between, say, Buffy's short-term love interest being a shrimpy guy with weird energy like Fab Filippo as Scott Hope, and someone cool and good-looking but forgettable like Adam Kaufman as Parker Abrams.

I know this was posted over a year ago, but I think it's interesting that you pick those two to compare and say they're totally different, when I found them to look a lot alike.  Dark hair, thick eyebrows, similar nose and face shape, thin build, both seem nice at first but later are not so nice...

 

I found the actor playing Riley to be much more generic and forgettable than Parker. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:38 PM, Vanessa1214 said:

I know this was posted over a year ago, but I think it's interesting that you pick those two to compare and say they're totally different, when I found them to look a lot alike.  Dark hair, thick eyebrows, similar nose and face shape, thin build, both seem nice at first but later are not so nice...

 

I found the actor playing Riley to be much more generic and forgettable than Parker. 

Maybe just the traditional casting director's choice at the time? 

[DisneyBoy]

A-Ha! So this is where the new people congregate!

I've been trying to find the right thread to introduce myself in. I'm binge-watching the series for the first time and I just finished season 3 and began season 4, the College Years.

My random thoughts are as follows...

Back in the day, my friends made such a big deal out of the Buffy Angel romance, and I just don't find them that interesting either as individuals or a couple. Yes, the show came up with a classic Forbidden Love scenario, but they pretty much burned through all the possibilities by the end of season 3 so I'm glad Angel excused himself from Buffy's life to let her be a happy person, and at the same time free the show up for new potential storylines.

And I do have to kind of side-eye Buffy here. He's a vampire, girl. How exactly do you imagine this working out well? I get it, she was physically attracted to him and he was being all protective and that's pretty much catnip for any teenage girl... But considering that he had this reputation for being a terrorizing killer, I would think that would be a big enough turn off not to climb into bed with him no matter how sweet he's being. Plus the whole concept of having sex with someone who isn't really alive is just....ew. But apparently not for Buffy.

Honestly the only thing she really saw in him was his looks. He didn't have much of a personality. And they weren't going to get married or have kids, so was her plan to just stay with him indefinitely...and be sad that they couldn't have sex...forever?

I have to say I've had a really hard time appreciating Xander, even though I like the actor and I like the concept of the character. His very open lusting after Buffy really felt like sexual harassment in many of the season 1 and season 2 episodes where he couldn't help but throw little comments intended to remind her that she turned him down and shouldn't have. He should have either accepted that she wasn't attracted to him and respected her feelings and kept his mouth shut and been a friend, or walked away to be bitter openly. I kind of respect the way Cordelia handled things much more. As soon as she saw that Xander was cheating on her and that being with him constantly was endangering her life, she broke things off with him and made it very clear they weren't going to get back together. I find that much more honest. Was it nice for her to be so rude to him all the time? Of course not, but at least she was owning her feelings instead of being passive aggressive.

Xander was very territorial over Buffy, especially with Angel, and I found it weird that Buffy tolerated that. But then, I found it very weird how each of the three main characters in the group knew about each other's romantic feelings towards one another and still constantly dropped these little comments in to make the others feel badly when those feelings weren't shared.

I'm seriously impressed by all of the great prosthetics work happening on a weekly basis with the villains on the show. You wouldn't see stuff like that today, sadly, it's time-consuming and expensive. I also found the fight choreography very impressive, though the use of stunt doubles is very poorly concealed for the most part. It does seem like SMG has improved a lot over the first three seasons, allowing the editors to keep her in more of the frames than when the show first debuted.

I do like how Joss never forgets about secondary characters and background characters (Smallville was terrible with that kind of stuff). This business with the witch girl from season one who gets turned into a mouse is a fun subplot. And the way they develop some of the other kids in school made the final episode of season 3 all the more exciting.

The show relies a lot more on comedy than I had realized before I started watching. I thought it was more of a serious dark vampire show, but there seems to be much more of a focus on the quippy banter. Sometimes I feel like that short changes the villain stuff...but maybe my real gripe is just that some of the villains are dispatched so quickly after an entire episode's worth of build-up. I only just finished season 3 and I kind of already feel like most of the foes I've seen over the course of the three seasons were hyped up for nothing. It's probably a budget thing, but it seems like a fair share of the villains are killed off within two or three minutes at the end of the episode. The mayor just turned into an enormous snake? Really? Okay then.

My favourite character is probably Willow. I get kind of annoyed with Alison's baby voice and baby talk and vocal pitch, but I can't help but feel her character is very sincere and loyal. When she cried in the bathroom upon realizing that Xander had lost his virginity to someone other than her, even though she already had a boyfriend she really cared about, my heart just broke a little. It's such a human reaction, and I don't think the show ever even took a moment to explicitly state that she had this fantasy of them losing their virginity with each other. That Joss chose to show instead of tell is excellent.

I can see why Spike will eventually become a bigger part of the show. He really leaves an impression, doesn't he? I also really liked the actress who played Drusilla, though I found her very unnerving as a character to say the least. I hope she also returns. From the way Spike returned to town without her in season 3, I feel like it could go either way. Maybe the actress just didn't want to do the show again. Don't spoil me though! I'll be happy to find out which way that goes.

It was nice to see the actor from Deep Space Nine playing the principal, but I really didn't understand what was going on with him as a character. I think they just wanted to keep him a one note joke who was always way too serious about high school, but there were times I felt like he might have been working with the mayor, or alternatively completely oblivious to the fact that the mayor is a demon. After that face-off in the cafeteria, I thought he knew he was evil....but then afterwards he's allowing the Mayor to give the graduation speech. Huh? At the very least I thought he would switch from hating Buffy to loving her. In the end he....just got eaten. That was kind of weird.

All things considered, I'm rather enjoying the show....but I'm not falling in love with it. I can see that this is where Smallville looked for inspiration for it's brand of knockoff "funny" dialogue. Though in truth, there seems to be a couple of times every episode of Buffy where I just don't believe some of the nonsense the characters are saying. The dialogue is definitely better here than it was on Smallville, but it can still be a little tiresome sometimes. I don't find Buffy that interesting, as I've already said, and I don't find Oz that interesting either. I think my favourites are Cordelia and Willow.

But still, it's fun going back in time to the 90s, that's for sure.

Edited November 30, 2019 by DisneyBoy