Upon First Viewing...: New Viewers to the Buffyverse

[peaceout]

Hi everyone. So as I mentioned in the small talk thread, first time viewer here. So far I'm up to Season Two. I wasn't actually that spoiled about the show at all. My younger siblings were very much into the show when it originally aired and spent years trying to get me hooked on it, to no avail. Recently, with one of them having moved in to my place for a little while, I finally decided to give it a shot. I know very basic info like Buffy's death (other than the brief Season One) apparently occurs at some point and there were some spin offs I think.

What can I say so far...I don't know why I so actively resisted watching this show for so long because I am loving it! I loved the first episode but I'll admit with the next few episodes I began to wonder again if this was really the show for me till I think the ep 'Angel' came along. That stretch of eps till 'Prophecy Girl' kept me in. And then Season Two just got so much better. I already have a list of eps like 'School Hard', 'Surprise', 'Innocence', 'Passion', 'I Only Have Eyes For You', 'Becoming 1 & 2' that I LOVE. But honestly, although these are faves, there really has been no ep I disliked, not even ones that sound really bad on paper like 'No Assembly Required', 'Bad Eggs' or 'Go Fisj.' There have been redeeming moments in each ep.

I think it's because I'm finding myself really invested in the characters. I think the main group, Buffy, Willow, Xander, Giles and Cordelia all gel great together. Of the recurring characters, I love Oz and am rooting for him and Willow because they're adorable. All of Season One I really wanted Buffy to wake her eyes up to Xander but then Xander and Cordelia happened and I love them. They are probably my favourite couple right now. The problem I'm having with Buffy and Angel right now is that I know Angel will be back, or that he has a spin off. And I'm not sure how I can ever like the idea of him and Buffy together again after his turn to Angelus. I think their chemistry is great, in faxct, in recent times I have rarely seen two actors with as great chemistry as Sarah and David. And I totally bought the slayer-vamp forbidden love thing but then he went to asshole-ville and I just.. Really hated him. I guess you could say the actor did a good job in getting me to hate him because honestly, Jenny Calendar's murder and that stunt he pulled with Buffy's mom. Hate.

There's not a lot that hasn't made sense so far. I think Spike and Buffy teaming up made total sense. Spike and Drusilla are such interesting characters. But them and this Angelus's last plan are a few of the only things confusing me. Spike and Dru, particularly Spike seem different. Different than normal vamps. Is this intentional? Will Spike be back because I love this character. Also, Angelus's plan to destroy the world made no sense to me. I was totally buying his obsession with Buffy and his general desire to keep the world around to create havoc. Then why destroy it all, including the opportunity to continue tormenting Buffy? What did I miss? The only explanation I can think of, that I discussed with my brother too, is that after I Only Have Eyes For You, he felt something more for Buffy than he cared or wanted to. Maybe he realized that if he went on facing her, a part of him might turn back? Go soft? And he doesn;t want that, hence taking the world out. 

[trudi-tru]

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Will Spike be back because I love this character.

This will be very funny soon.

It's been a while since I've done a proper rewatch, but I remember the plan was to wake Acathla and have it send the world to hell, where it would be more fun for vamps and demons. At least that is where Angel ends up.

The Big Bads plans never made much sense to me in general.

[Erratic]

I can't wait to hear what you think of Season Three :)

i agree that Season One feels a lot more dated than the other seasons, so I am glad that it can still hook people.

[peaceout]

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This will be very funny soon.

Uh-oh. Sounds ominous!

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I can't wait to hear what you think of Season Three :)

I'm watching Season 3 right now and absolutely loving it. I'm up to Amends so far. Initially, the first two-three eps seemed to be a little underwhelming because I think Becoming 1 & 2 would probably go in my top couple hours of TV, ever. The way Season Two ended really resonated. But Homecoming onwards, I think the show has definitely stepped out of Season Two's shadow. It's very much its own tone and own uniqueness. I loved 'The Wish.' One of the best alternate reality eps I've seen. Lover's Walk was just brilliant and there are parts of Band Candy that are literally LOL worthy. But I think Amends is probably my fave so far. I think this concept of this great, all consuming, forever evil is so interesting. It is such a real threat but in such a personalized, almost intimate way. I'd love to see where they might go with this but I think for now it seems clear that the Mayor is the potential villain of the season.

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If I compare it with other supernatural MOTW shows, I feel like what makes Buffy stand out is that there is always an idea behind the episodes and these ideas are packaged in a way that they never appear too obvious/one-dimensional, if you get what I mean.

Yes, I totally get what you're saying. I've seen a lot of TV, but this seems completely different and in so many ways such a predecessor or founding template type show for so many other series I'm familiar with.

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Buffy and Angel are probably my favorite ship of all time and I'm usually not a shipper, but it's a relationship that works really well for me, though the relationship does also have the advantage that it never really overstays its welcome due to Angel getting his own spin-off and leaving the show.

I started the show wanting Buffy and Xander to get together but damn. There is something about Buffy and Angel that just keeps pulling me back in. I didn't think I'd be into them after the events of Angelus's chaos of season two and yet here I am, up to Amends, and I'm even more drawn to them. I think it's more than just their chemistry at this point, which I think is unreal good. It's the fact that the show seemed to have embraced the over the top melodramatic core of it and run with it rather than trying to make excuses for it. They're trying to sell epic and I'm buying. At this point I know Angel is spun off on to his own show and I have no idea what's coming up romantically for either of them, but it seems hard to imagine there might be anyone in either of their lives who might ever match up to that pull they have for one another.

Which leads me to some of my frustration with them as well so far. I'm not entirely sure I get this whole Angel turning to Angelus thing. Is it simply having sex with Buffy? At any point, ever? Is it sex itself? Because that would mean him never really having a relationship with anyone. I feel like on a more adult network, in a show with a different context, this could be addressed. I mean, there are ways around having to have sex the traditional way so to speak. What are the boundaries here, so on and so forth. But obviously, I get why they couldn't explore this aspect. Or maybe they did, I haven't reached that far. 

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I did also enjoy Cordelia and Xander a lot. That's a really fun relationship.

This is the only thing bugging me about this season so far. I hated the Xander Willow fling. That made no sense to me. I'm happy to see Willow and Oz trying to come back from that but I'm not sure Cordelia can forgive Xander. I thought these two were brilliant together. Really hope they can still find a way back to each other. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by peaceout

[Loandbehold]

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I loved 'The Wish.' One of the best alternate reality eps I've seen.

My all-time favorite episode of Buffy. I love how it turns the alt-universe story on it's head because Cordelia doesn't learn "a valuable lesson" and doesn't save alt-Sunnydale. The story is really a window for the audience into what the town would be like because Buffy wasn't there to stop the harvest.

[Loandbehold]

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I loved the final montage.

Or. as I like to call it, "The Ballet O'Death."

[Erratic]

Season Three is glorious. It is my favourite episodic week to week season, but I love Season 4 for the one-offs, and Season 5 for the overall season arc. 

The Angel/Angelus thing is complicated, but I like that it isn't simple, and we are left to figure it out with them. 

'The Wish' is great, but I love the one-off episode that it spawns. You'll be there very shortly!

[peaceout]

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My all-time favorite episode of Buffy. I love how it turns the alt-universe story on it's head because Cordelia doesn't learn "a valuable lesson" and doesn't save alt-Sunnydale. The story is really a window for the audience into what the town would be like because Buffy wasn't there to stop the harvest.

Yes, exactly! I loved that we got a darker version and stayed with that darker version. Hell, even Buffy herself is killed at the end. Dark stuff, and that juxtaposed with Giles's desperation to believe the other world has to be better, just made for brilliant TV.

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Oh, enjoy season three. I'd say Buffy Season Three is the show at its most confident. All the dynamics have been established and there are no major shifts. Even all the stand alone episodes are very good with no real low among them . Looking forward to hear what you will think of Consequencesand Earshot.

Ok, so I'm up to Consequences now. Still loving it, and I can already see what you mean. Season three eps are really flowing into one another so coherently and seamlessly, even with seemingly standalone eps, like Zeppo. Which, I LOVED. How bizarre and surreal, but I loved it. 

Faith has really grown on me. I can totally see her desperately wanting to belong but she's unable to tap into her own moral compass. I especially loved her conversation with Buffy at the docks in Consequences. That whole thing Faith said, you can really tell how she's almost conditioned herself to believe that. She won't accept any alternative POV. And now with her joining forces with the Mayor, I just can't see how she won't go from worse to worst. 

Wesley is a major annoyance right now, but the actor is playing the hell out of it.

The Watchers's Council is surely evil? As in, how can I accept that slayers and their watchers have been taking orders like this for centuries? But it's a really interesting set up, to have the guys in charge be the ones you potentially have to worry about the most. Love this twist. 

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This is not fully explained on Buffy, but will be explored later in the second season of Angel. I am not sure if you are going to watch Angel as well, so I don't want to spoil you right now and just leave it at "one moment of true happiness" will turn Angel into Angelus. Though "untraditional ways of having sex" are certainly not addressed.

My brother tells me I should definitely give Angel a go after I'm done with Buffy. So I am planning to, yes. At this point, the thing that's really driving me nuts is the one moment of happiness, orgasm basically during sex, can't it come from anyone? Is it Buffy specific? I mean, did Angel not have sex at all after he was cursed? Will he ever be able to? I know, too many questions. I have to go with it. But it's annoying because I know Angel is going off to his show soon and part of me wishes he wouldn't because I love these two together so much. Having said that, no sex ever really does equal no relationship ever. So it makes sense.

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The Xander/Willow thing was really only there to break Xander and Cordelia up so that Cordelia is all set up for her next path. It'll make more sense soon, but yeah it wasn't the most organic storyline, but it served its purpose.

Aw, this makes me sad, knowing definitively no more Xander/Cordelia. I am so curious about what will happen to her though. I hope she doesn't get vamped!

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Season Three is glorious. It is my favourite episodic week to week season, but I love Season 4 for the one-offs, and Season 5 for the overall season arc. 

I am really looking forward to getting through all the seasons now. My brother tells me his favourite stretch of the show was season three to five, so let's see where I fall by the end of the show.

Edited September 14, 2016 by peaceout

[Erratic]

The next episode, 'Doppelgangland' is just wonderful in every way.

That is all.

[peaceout]

I LOVED Dopplegangland! This wonderful show! I really can't believe I resisted watching the show all these years. I think season three has been one of the most satisfying seasons of TV I've ever watched. What a finish. Faith's storyline was handled so well and so true to her character where even as she drifted further and further into the dark side, you could still see somewhere, somehow maybe there was a slayer in there. There was something about her last look at the gang in Choices as she's walking away. It's about the blade of course, but there seems to be a deeper subtext too, about no going back now. And then the dream. Maybe in a way that was the good part, or whatever left of it, trying to reach through unwittingly to Buffy. Great stuff. Great fight, too, with her and Buffy in Graduation 1.

Wesley even moved from an annoyance that amused to someone I can genuinely see growing into some kind of a character this lot can work with. Nicely done.

Oh, Xander and Cordy. Although I still really love them, I can't help but love the way their chapter was ultimately brought to a close there, from The Prom till Graduation 2. I hated the sniping and the hatred and it was a nice sort of closure, Xander buying the dress for her and seeking her forgiveness one last time and Cordelia thanking him for not just the dress, but probably making peace with what happened. You could really tell in their interactions in Graduation 1 & 2 that things had changed. They were friends. With history. Loved these two. 

I hope Willow and Oz atleast stay together, because damn. Xander and Cordy and Buffy and Angel down. I'm not sure what to think of Anya. Not even sure she'll be back. I think the actress did a great job but there's something just a tad offputting about Anya. 

One of the things I really loved about this season was Willow's progression almost as second in command to Giles, really. In the absence of Buffy and Giles, somehow it just felt organic to have Willow take charge. But my absolute favourite thing about this season was the bond between the characters. This group has been growing closer and closer since season one and by this point you can tell they really would take a bullet for one another. I particularly love Buffy and Gile's dynamic. He really is her father, in ever way that should be, and I think the actors play beautifully off each other.

Buffy and Angel. Dammit. Why am I so invested in them? But again, so many questions and lingering thoughts. That blood sucking scene? Please tell me everyone else noticed it as the hopefully not so subtle metaphor or euphimism for sex. Because that's what it looked like. And boy did David and Sarah play the hell out of that scene. Just, wow. But I can't help but think, doesn't this sort of bond them, potentially forever? I mean, the vampire and slayer in love and said vampire drank from said slayer. That has to mean something. I didn't find the same level of closure with them as I did for Xander and Cordelia.

One of my own issues with the last half of the season was Cordelia's diminished role. I hope she has a lot more to do next season.

So many favourite eps this season. But honestly, the whole stretch of eps from Bad Girls onwards is just brilliant TV. That last scene of the season itself, although I missed Giles, but in a way, how fitting to end this chapter of the show with Bffy, Xander, Cordt, Willow and Oz. 

The mayor, who I wasn't reallly feeling initially really turned out to be quite a character by the end. With Angelus, although Acathla world ending and all, it all felt intimate and personal but with they mayor, the stakes were raised. Very nicely done.

On to season four!

[joelene]

I haven't rewatched Buffy in years (I think I got drained after watching it around 15 times in my teens and 20s) but you got me jonezing for a rewatch! Angel too! Which I really hope you'll watch too and write about because it's really great and I love these posts!

[peaceout]

Aw, thanks joelene. I definitely hope to watch Angel after I'm through with Buffy. Now that I'm about to start season four I almost want to keep delaying it but I can't help but motor through the show. I'm loving it!

[Erratic]

Peaceout You might want to watch Angel concurrently with Season 4. There are a few overlapping episodes starting this season.

 

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there's something just a tad offputting about Anya.

?

Ps if you do decide to watch Angel now, Google for the proper order to watch the episodes as sometimes you need to watch 2 Buffy's before the next Angel, and vice versa.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Erratic

[GreenScreenFX]

I highly recommend watching Buffy and Angel at the same time. Buffy then Angel concurrently. It's the way they were aired in real time... And the continuity is preserved. Watching Angel (the series) after finishing Buffy (the series) will leave gaps in logic. There are many cross-over episodes.

 

Half of the Buffy cast moved to Angel... So think of it as a part 2 of Buffy. It's not a new show, just the other half of the same universe.

[buffyjunkie]

Oh mercy peaceout. This show is going to slay you emtionally.  Welcome to the tribe.

[peaceout]

Thanks everyone for your advice/recommendations about watching Angel concurrently but I'm already up to Something Blue in Buffy. And you're right, some stuff is a bit confusing already but I think at this point I'm just going to motor through with Buffy first.

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She gets a lot more to do. Well, only not on Buffy. She's the female lead on Angel. That's why her relationship with Xander was ended, because they were setting her up for the spin off. 

 

I'm curious to what your thoughts on season four will be. It's going to be quite a different season, a transitional season. 

 

Lol, I had no idea she was crossing over on to Angel so imagine my shock as I began watching season four and no Cordy. I was literally like whaaa. You are very right about this seeming like a different season. Tonally, so far at least, it seems a lot lighter, aside from the Willow/Oz breakup. Which, someone please please tell me he'll be back?! As much as I am impossibly hooked to this show, I have to say, it is doing my head in romantic relationship wise. None of the couples I like stay together. WTF?! But on the whole, I'm still really loving the show. I can see what a huge task it must have been, transitioning Angel and Cordy out and Spike in. Not to mention new characters like Riley. I'm finding Riley and Willow have a lot more chemistry than Riley and Buffy. Is it just me? I wonder if they might go there with Riley and Willow. But the show seems pretty clear that all roads lead to Buffy and Riley right now. I don't mind them. He's no Angel, and their chemistry seems a bit on the forced side, but I'm actually quite enjoying watching Riley as a character and what his potential might be, in terms of this Initiative storyline. 

Spike's character has just totally taken a turn. I can't help it though, I still love him. The actor, James Marsters, he's brilliant with whatever he's given. So far, his evolution from how he first appeared in season two, to how he ended up that season to season three and now, it all makes sense. I can't wait to see how he fits in the larger scheme of things now with this thing in his head. Surely it can't be permanent though?

Harmony's hilarious but can grate after a while. I'm finding the same of Anya so far too.

I feel for Xander and Giles, but it makes sense, for these two in particular to sort feel their way around whatever their new roles are going to be, both in life and as part of the scooby gang, now that they're relatively scattered. 

Seeing Angel in Pangs was so great. And the reactions to him by various characters just made it better. I was really curious about him getting the gem of Amara but clearly when he showed up in Buffy later not wearing it, I figured something bad must have gone down with it in LA.

In terms of eps, the only one I didn't really care for so far was Beer Bad. It was the fueat time after I think a few earl season one eps where I actually looked at the time, wanting the ep to finish soon. I loved Something Blue and The Initiative and the halloween ep, I can't remember the name. 

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Oh mercy peaceout. This show is going to slay you emtionally.  Welcome to the tribe.

Lol, I think I can somewhat begin to see what you're saying. 

[Erratic]

1 hour ago, peaceout said:

'm finding Riley and Willow have a lot more chemistry than Riley and Buffy. Is it just me? I wonder if they might go there

Pretty sure by the time you read this this will be funny to you, but yes, many people have noted the initial Willow/Riley chemistry. 

[buffyjunkie]

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. I'm finding Riley and Willow have a lot more chemistry than Riley and Buffy. Is it just me? I

Ha, ha, ha ,ha, ha! Oh, you're killing me. Like a trip down memory lane.

[DigitalCount]

I'm currently starting season 5. I'm up to episode 3, and I already hate this character. No, I won't say who. Anyone who has seen the show hopefully already knows who I'm talking about.

In fairness, I'm coming from the Vampire Diaries, where the thing that happened is treated as a huge deal if it ever happens, so as soon as the person did the thing I screamed out loud and probably took it worse than I would have in 2002 or whatever, but wow.

Wow.

[GreenScreenFX]

On September 16, 2016 at 1:28 AM, GreenScreenFX said:

 

We ALL know who you are talking about baby buffy

Edited September 17, 2016 by GreenScreenFX

[FurryFury]

So great to see somebody new into the show.

Re: Pangs, just watch the follow-up to this episode on Angel (I Will Remember You), it's guaranteed to slay you if you like Buffy/Angel romance. I think you could even do it without watching the rest of Angel, it's mostly focused on him and Buffy and it's very powerful (and sorta important for the meta-plot, somewhat). There is also an important cross over involving a certain character later in the season.

[Erratic]

I second this. 'I Will Remember You' is definitely a cross-off episode that you'lol really want to see straight after 'Pangs' and will really set off all the Buffy-Angel feels.

[romantic idiot]

Still makes me shiver. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Spoiler

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It was nice to have Buffy be close with someone that wasn't a boyfriend. 

Aren't you forgetting Willow, Xander and Giles? It's not like Buffy was a total loner prior to Dawn's appearance. Personally, I don't dislike Dawn but I think the affection the other characters have for her is for the most part undeserved and an annoying writing shortcut. There was no reason not to try to get rid of all the fake memories of her. Joyce's ridiculously easy acceptance of Dawn after the latter's true nature was revealed was incredibly silly, IMO.

 

On 14/09/2016 at 1:35 PM, peaceout said:

At this point, the thing that's really driving me nuts is the one moment of happiness, orgasm basically during sex, can't it come from anyone? Is it Buffy specific? I mean, did Angel not have sex at all after he was cursed? Will he ever be able to? I know, too many questions. I have to go with it.

Let's just say that the writers aren't above making the characters do rather illogical things to get the plot from point A to point B. There is really no reason for everyone in the show to assume that just because the moment of happiness happened to be sex with Buffy the last time, it would be the exact same thing the next time, yet that's what they did, probably because that way Joss could give the shippers some Buffy/Angel romance in season 3 and still be able to ship off Angel to his own spin-off next year.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[peaceout]

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Pretty sure by the time you read this this will be funny to you, but yes, many people have noted the initial Willow/Riley chemistry. 

Seriously, lol! I did not see the Willow Tara thing coming. I guess I should say goodbye to my Willow and Oz love. Sadly, because I did really love them. I also wish Oz hadn't come back for his last ep. The finalty of their breakup got to me. Having said that, I quite like Tara. So I don't mind seeing whether I might end up warming to this pairing.

I liked this season, even though I still feel tonally it felt very different to seasons two and three. There were some incredible eps this season. Hush was just amazing, and I loved the quirkiness of Superstar. I loved Yoko Factor and Primeval totally felt like a season finale. The Faith two parter was brilliant. But I think Restless was just on another level of awesome. It felt like I was watching a piece of literature. It was so well done, all of the dreams, interwoven with the larger theme. I think I found Xander's dream the most compelling though. Just beautifully captured him in that moment. 

But for the first time since early season one, there were a couple of eps I was actually zoning out during. And that felt strange. I was a bit underwhelmed by Adam too. Initially I was really excited to see where they might go with him because I still think the concept is cool. But he was so isolated and there was no emotional resonance to him as a villain. 

Giles singing! LOVE. 

So I watched I will Remember You. Got me in the feels. Right where it matters. I can't seem to quit these two. I loved Angel in Yoko Factor. Would have loved to have seen his reaction to Spike, lol. But I liked what we got. This unspoken realization that there will always be some part of both these characters that will gravitate towards each other. Which is strange because its probably counter productive to both shows. But so far that's the way it seems. Like they're end game. Even more surprising is the fact that a part of me likes Buffy and Riley together too. I can;t help but think he's in denial over some of his issues with Buffy's slayerness, but he's a good guy. He seems to mean well and it's obvious he loves Buffy. I think she needs this right now. I think she loves him too, probably not the same, deep, emotional pull she has with Angel, but there's real love and affection there. 

Emma Caulfield kills it as Anya. She is so, so good. I'm beginning to warm to her character too, as well as her and Xander together. Towards the end of the season, it finally felt believable that their affection was a two way street and not just one sided from Anya.

Spike continues to be hilarious although I'm really curious of he will be fully integrated into the gang or if he'll find a way to get his chipectomy. Because at the end of the day, uniquely interesting as Spike is, and highly adaptable, he is still a vampire. He can't kill, sure, but have those urges gone away? Really interesting stuff.

Onwards to season 5!

[Erratic]

Season Five is my favourite. I adore the twist, the Big Bad, the development, that one episode that just gets you in the feels, and the finale. 

Hope you enjoy it too!

[Valny]

Peaceout-Holy crap, you are really moving along!  I didn't even see this thread  and now you're on S5!

Like Erratic, S5 is my fave. Loved the overall arc and all the other stuff she mentioned. S6 is a good one too, it's the season I started watching first so it will always remain a favorite, even though I'd say it's a divisive one.

I love your enthusiasm.... you're in for some really good TV.

[trudi-tru]

Season 5 is when everything starts to fall apart for me. Too much real life crap, an unsufferable big bad and the main character is dragged so far down, she never really recovers.

Season 4 is the last time when it feels like there's joy in the show.

[peaceout]

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Peaceout-Holy crap, you are really moving along!  I didn't even see this thread  and now you're on S5!

I know, I'm just so impossibly hooked! I haven't felt such an emotional investment in television characters in a long time, lol.

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Season Five is my favourite. I adore the twist, the Big Bad, the development, that one episode that just gets you in the feels, and the finale. 

So far, I'm up to Shadow. And I am loving this season! It seems to have captured the old tone/balance of seasons 2 and 3, despite that massive WTF at the beginning of the season, which was Dawn. Now that I'm remembering though, is it possible that Dawn was foreshadowed? In Restless? My initial thoughts about Dawn in her first ep was that she was evil. That she was the big villain of the season who had somehow inserted herself into Buffy's life unnaturally for some nefarious purpose. Turns out I was half right. She was inserted into Buffy's life/memories but by the monks. And she doesn't appear to be evil, although she is this 'key' thing so I remain weary. 

I loved that the theme of Family was just that. family. It's not always blood, it's who you choose to call as family, people who would always be there for you. Since season two, the main four characters have been getting closer and closer to a point where I can now totally buy that they think of each other as family. I know the purpose of the ep was to fully integrate Tara into the group, but I loved being reminded of how tight knit this group is. I really like that Buffy has at least clued in Giles, about Dawn. Giles and Buffy together are love. Actually, I love Giles's dynamic with all of the scoobies, there seems to be a different tone with each, that really speaks true to those two particular people. 

Emma Caulfield just completely cracks me up as Anya. She is brilliant and wow, how Anya has grown on me. I think what's working in her favour this season is that I can actually begin to see what she brings to the table, as an individual scooby. She has this vast, 1000 year old history and the group can really tap into that. Plus, her embracing the all things capitalism is hilarious.

I did not expect Joyce's illness, but what a harsh reminder that even in this world, this can still happen. Death and illness don't wait for anyone. Sarah is really killing it in her scenes where she just feels so daunted and helpless.

Spike is just utterly fascinating this season. He really is love's bitch. Fool for Love was such an amazing ep, a brilliant character study almost, showing Spike come full circle with being told 'beneath me.' I know the show has fleshed out vampires since season one, giving them personality and nuances, but Spike still seems unique somehow, and I don't think it originates from the chip, but is certainly reinforced by that in a way. I can't see his obsession with Buffy turning out well, yet at the same time, it is so compelling, watching him in his own head, fall harder and harder. The last scene of Fool for Love was just a thing of beauty in this regard. I also loved this ep for seeing Angel and Dru again, and omg, Darla! In all of their scenes together, I couldn't help but think, I'd love to have seen a whole separate show with their 'adventures.' I am confused about one thing though. By 1900, wouldn't Angel have been cursed??

There's something really heartbreaking and tragic about Riley. He's convinced himself so much that Buffy doesn't love him, he's actually potentially putting himself in a position where he might end up pushing her away. I still think he's a good guy, and the character has really grown on me. I like his dry sense of humour sometimes and the actor does a decent job. But he has definite issues of self worth or sense of belonging that he needs to sort out. And quick, otherwise this relationship can't last. Which I'm torn about, because I have grown to like him and Buffy together but in my hopelessly devoted mind, Buffy and Angel are still endgame. 

Glory's fun! I'm very confused right now as to the specifics around her character but I'm in. I'm interested to see where it goes. 

[Erratic]

I also loved this ep for seeing Angel and Dru again, and omg, Darla! In all of their scenes together, I couldn't help but think, I'd love to have seen a whole separate show with their 'adventures.'

This episode is shown from an entirely different perspective over on

'Angel'.  Something for you to look forward to :)

[Erratic]

Peaceout have you recovered from Season Five yet? I am very curious to see what you thought.

[Valny]

4 hours ago, Erratic said:

Peaceout have you recovered from Season Five yet? I am very curious to see what you thought.

 Erratic -   you think Peaceout has gotten to *that* episode yet?

[peaceout]

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Peaceout have you recovered from Season Five yet? I am very curious to see what you thought.

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Erratic -   you think Peaceout has gotten to *that* episode yet?

You guys. This season. I'm up to 'Forever' so far. Is *that* episode 'The Body?' Because wow. What an incredible little capsule of the different tiers of immediate grief. Just amazing. I was not expecting Joyce to die. As gut wrenching as The Body was, Forever was a good follow up. Nice play on Monkey's Paw. I'm curious was Joyce 'coming back wrong?' And Angel was exactly what Buffy needed right then and there. I still miss him. Still love these two.

I am really, really into this season. So crazy invested, it's not even funny. Glory is a god??! Again, did not see that coming. I loved 'Checkpoint.' So many forces after Dawn, this is going to get ugly. I also loved 'Blood Ties.' And 'Crush' was great, seeing Dru back especially. Riley and Buffy's breakup I did see coming. That  was a powerful scene, the last shot of her running desperately to save the relationship. I never disliked Buffy and Riley and here I actually rooted for them. But I just couldn't see it working out in the long haul. 

I'm just completely in love with this show. 

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Giles is just a wonderful character. 

He really, really is. In some ways, might be my favourite character.

Edited September 28, 2016 by peaceout

[GreenScreenFX]

"That" episode could mean a couple of episodes.

[peaceout]

So I just finished season 5. Remarkable season. I think three and five tie as my favourite seasons so far, though for very different reasons, with season two a very close second.

Although of course I know Buffy will be brought back somehow and don;t get me wrong, I am really happy there are still two more seasons for me to watch, if this had been a series finale, I think I'd be at peace with it. Perhaps the only thing missing would be Angel. But it'd be a helluva way to sign off. The Gift was such a terrific episode. From that unique recap to the teaser right down to the last scene. But it was all these great little moments in between, like Buffy and Giles's conversation in the training room, and Spike and Giles's 'we the band of buggered' moment. And Tara getting her sanity back. And what surprisingly resonated in a way that I didn't think possible was Buffy and Spike's liittle moment in her house. How much inviting him back in meant to Spike and his acknowledgment that she will never love him, but that's irrelevant to him. Again, in the context of this season, I completely believe Spike means this. He is a soulless demon, yes, but a big chunk of his personality has always been shaped and driven by his 'love' for the women in his life. And his need to mould himself for them. At this point, that meant moulding himself to as close to a hero as he could possibly get. And he sure had a lot of heroic moments in the last three or four eps of the season. Now whether this will continue or not, I can't tell. He's a wildcard in that respect. I like it. Makes him consistently interesting.

I really loved what Glory brought as a villain. Her speech to Dawn, about being the only one who recognized the crazy around her, was really so well executed. I really bought her a genuine, credible threat once she found out who the key was. Her backstory was great. I almost wish we had a version where we could have seen it.

Giles killing Ben at the end, controversial, I'm sure, but I could see the necessity of the situation trumping all else at that moment.

The last, I think maybe five eps or so of the season, almost felt like one whole episode. Like one, big long season finale that climaxed in The Gift.

Willow taking charge in the absence of Giles and Buffy is not new, but it is interesting how they've really ramped it up this season. She is getting so powerful.

Great season. Very much looking forward to continuing the resst of the series. 

[Erratic]

I am so glad that Season Five had that impact. I truly love so much about this season. And, yes, it could've easily worked as an amazingly satisfying Series finale.

I hope Season Six is as enjoyable. Like Season 4, there are a few real gems in there, and a couple of misses. Think 'Beer Bad' vs 'Hush'. There is one real treat waiting for you if you aren't spoilt on it.

i am super curious to hear how this next Season goes for you...

[romantic idiot]

7 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

 

On 10/2/2016 at 5:08 PM, peaceout said:

I think three and five tie as my favourite seasons so far, though for very different reasons, with season two a very close second.

That's a very popular opinion among Buffy fans.

 

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Again, in the context of this season, I completely believe Spike means this. He is a soulless demon, yes, but a big chunk of his personality has always been shaped and driven by his 'love' for the women in his life. And his need to mould himself for them. At this point, that meant moulding himself to as close to a hero as he could possibly get. And he sure had a lot of heroic moments in the last three or four eps of the season. Now whether this will continue or not, I can't tell. He's a wildcard in that respect. I like it. Makes him consistently interesting.

I think it's also a nice twist having Spike be the one who's driven by his relationship to women.

 

To be fair that's true of Angel too, and, to a lesser extent, Xander.

[tveyeonyou]

This thread gives me life.

I just stumbled on Buffy being shown on some channel called Pop (3 episodes beginning at 1pm EST, I think it's Monday thru Friday), they aired the first 3 episodes of Season 1 today. I came here and saw this thread and I can't tell you how awesome it is to see someone watching for the first time.

Peaceout, I'm so jealous that you're seeing it all with unspoiled eyes and I love reading everything you have to say about BTVS. So far I'm with you 100% but as others have said, you're about to enter the most divisive season(s) of Buffy and without being spoilery, I'll just say that Season 6 is my favorite season of all and I can't wait to see what you think of the last 2 seasons. One of the things I enjoy most is seeing Buffy through the eyes of a new viewer. I'm beyond obsessed with this show and have to admit that I read the comics as well, although I'm a bit behind in my reading I have every issue up to the end of Season 10.

Add me to the list of folks recommending you watch Angel as well, even if you do wait until you've seen all of Buffy. There are a few really good rewatches going on that you may want to check out, Tiny Fences and Dusted are 2 that come to mind, also Mark Watches was incredible when it was going on.

I'm looking forward to reading what you think about the rest of Buffy, and after you finish Angel, you might want to try Firefly and Dollhouse. Nobody does it like Joss Whedon.

[secnarf]

Hi everyone! De-lurking just to say - if you're watching the series for the first time on Netflix, find another way to watch Once More With Feeling (season 6 episode 7). Netflix has the syndication version, which has quite a bit cut out. It's rather disappointing. If ever there is an episode where they shouldn't cut parts out, it's this one!

[buffynut]

So cool to see thoughts of a first time, unspoiled viewer.

Though I haven't watched any of the episodes since the series finale, BtVS still remains one of my favourite series of all time.  I ended up discovering it on YTV (a Canadian station) when it aired the first season episodes over and over between the first and second season.  I can't remember the first episode I watched, and the crickets in Teacher's Pet and the theme of The Pack almost turned me off the series. But then I saw "Angel" and that final scene when Buffy's cross burned into Angel's chest hooked me for good.

I have the whole series on VHS tapes. I must dust them off and see if they and my old vcr still work.

Looking forward to seeing what peaceout thinks of season 6.

Edited October 4, 2016 by buffynut

[peaceout]

Right, so I'm up to Tabula Rasa so far. I have questions! My very first thought after the opening credits of the first ep was, where the hell is Giles?! Has the actor left the show, will there be no more Giles, will he die?! There was a mini apocalypse going on in my head. Then it struck me, why isn't Tara in the credits? She's never been in the credits and that struck me as odd. As the season progressed and now that I'm up to Tabula Rasa and seeing Giles (finally?) leaving, I'm assuming Giles isn't in the credits because the show is phasing the character out...am I right? If that is the case, I'm incredibly saddened. Will he make any guest appearances? Please tell me yes... 

My other question is, what the hell was up with the no-show Buffy and Angel meeting? Did they meet on Angel? Why didn't we get more details on that? It seems like a big deal to gloss over. Buffy's reaction after she came back was odd and I just can't help wondering what happened between the two of them. Do we ever get any info on this?

Ok, now on to the season itself, lol. Sorry for the questions! Well, I have a lot of conflicting thoughts on certain storylines this season but I'm still just as much hooked to the show as ever. I loved Once More With Feeling and Tabula Rasa so much that I rewatched parts of them almost immediately after. Once More, is just a particularly amazing hour of TV. Kudos the entire cast and crew because it could so easily have been a gimmicky ep, but I think it potentially moved the season along in momentous ways, re: Buffy in heaven, Xander and Anya's doubts over marriage and Willow and Tara breaking up. And of course none moreso than Buffy realizing she is as drawn to Spike as he is to her, just probably for very different reasons. (P.S. I watched on DVD!)

On the Buffy and Spike front, I saw it coming since the very first ep after the premiere. And a part of me can definitely see why. Spike has continued to ally himself with the Scoobies, fighting right there by their side, even in Buffy's absence. That's a huge deal. Not in suddenly making Spike 'good' but in convincing me even further how deeply his attachment to Buffy goes. He is co consumed by her that even in her absence, he devotes the rest of his 'life' to her because he defines his existence through her perception of him. If he believes Buffy trusts him, Spike will damn well do everything in his power to live up to that image. Add to that the unique way he seems to be willing to listen to Buffy when her friends aren't, and I can see Spike's appeal for her. He's a very welcome distraction to Buffy right now. And he's an all too willing participant in her desperate neediness right now. My only trouble with this is, what happens when Spike stops being a distraction to Buffy? What if Buffy loses interest? What if her perception of Spike changes from a 'good guy hero' to someone who's not? Won't that effectively change the way Spike behaves? Because his behaviour seems so linked with how he feels Buffy thinks of him, this might be a potentially disastrous relationship. Because what happens if Buffy breaks this thing off and begins referring to Spike as a 'monster' again. Because it is still only a chip that's holding him back and not a soul. Will Spike revert to being a monster? It's a very slippery slope and Buffy should very careful.

I really feel for Buffy right now. Yes, she's not making the best of decisions right now but I'm giving her breathing room because honestly, she was so ready and at peace with what she did in The Gift. For her to be yanked out and thrust back in what must invariably feel like a crappy existence compared to heaven, I can't even imagine. 

On Giles leaving, I can see both points. I can understand what Giles thinks, but I can also see what Buffy means. I don;t think leaving her cold turkey is a good idea. Giles could have stayed and talked Buffy through everything rather than completely removing himself from her life.

I felt similarly conflicted with the Willow and Giles spat. Which, I think my heart broke when it happened. After that absolutely lovely send off in Bargaining to their bitter exchange of words later. Awful. On one hand, I get what Giles is saying. Especially because Willow was frankly, foolish and presumptious enough to just assume that Buffy was in hell. Why would she? On the other hand, I can't completely fault Willow either because by that point, I don;t think it was her growing obsession with magic that drove her to ressurrect Buffy. In that moment, I truly do believe it was because she loved Buffy and wanted to save her. But what's really scary in all of this is Willow completely losing it. I don;t blame Tara for leaving her. That was a complete violation of her mind. I'm not sure where they're going with Willow, but it's sort of freaking me out.

Please let Xander and Anya be ok! Let them be that one stable,  foundation. But I'm probably fooling myself, aren't I?

Why is Jonathon with Warren and that other dude? Seems a bit out of character to me. I'm reserving my judgment on them right now. They're funny sure, but they're more annoying than anything at the moment. 

[trudi-tru]

23 minutes ago, peaceout said:

My other question is, what the hell was up with the no-show Buffy and Angel meeting? Did they meet on Angel? Why didn't we get more details on that? It seems like a big deal to gloss over. Buffy's reaction after she came back was odd and I just can't help wondering what happened between the two of them. Do we ever get any info on this?

The meeting wasn't shown on Angel either and no more details are given.

 

25 minutes ago, peaceout said:

Add to that the unique way he seems to be willing to listen to Buffy when her friends aren't

I strongly disagree with this. Buffy never even tries to confide in her friends. They aren't given a chance to listen to her. Part of my intense dislike of Season 6 is the writers isolating Buffy on purpose so the Spike is the only person she can turn to. Case in point: Giles leaving. I know tha actor wanted to spend more time in UK but the writers could have another way to work around instead of making him abandon Buffy when she's at her weakest.

[buffynut]

peaceout loved reading your thoughts on season 6. It reminded me of things I'd forgotten. In fact, I don't remember anything about a missing Buffy/Angel meeting. So glad other posters were able to answer your questions.

I watched the first few seasons over and over, but by season 6 I think I only watched as they aired, so I remember the main things that happened, but not the little details.  The only exception is Once More With Feeling, which I watched many times.  It blew me away with how good it was. And not just the singing, but how it moved the story along. I will have to see if there are any videos of it on Youtube so I can watch some of my favourite performances

[Jack Shaftoe]

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I strongly disagree with this. Buffy never even tries to confide in her friends. They aren't given a chance to listen to her. Part of my intense dislike of Season 6 is the writers isolating Buffy on purpose so the Spike is the only person she can turn to.

Yes, that was infuriating. Classic example of "let's make the other characters look bad so that the bad boy love interest would look (sort of) good". Complete with ridiculously sappy lines like "Every night I save you".

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Yes, she's not making the best of decisions right now but I'm giving her breathing room because honestly, she was so ready and at peace with what she did in The Gift. For her to be yanked out and thrust back in what must invariably feel like a crappy existence compared to heaven, I can't even imagine. 

Honestly, I will never understand how the writers expected me to feel bad about Buffy being alive. Cynically speaking, if she finds her life so unbearable she can always commit a suicide once again. And from a narrative point of view, why should I root for a heroine who would literally be better off dead? I don't want to get into a theological discussion but the notion that anyone should be fine with dying at the ripe old age of 21 is all kinds of scary to me.  Not to mention that the writers pulled this heaven thing out of their collective ass and never bothered to explore its ramifications in any way. It was basically a plot device for more angst.

[peaceout]

Thanks nosleepforme and trudi-tru for answering my questions! I had no idea about the different networks. It makes sense then for a crossover to be difficult and in a way it makes me appreciate the writers more that atleast they still added this little part in about a Buffy-Angel meeting at all. It would be very easy to just ignore that Angel exists at all. But the Buffy/Angel fan in me is really disappointed by this. So this means no more crossovers ever? No more Buffy and Angel in a scene together? 

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peaceout loved reading your thoughts on season 6.

Thanks! I'm up to Gone now.

As far as the debate about Buffy not talking to her friends vs her friends not talking to her, I didn't mean to imply her friends chose to ignore her or that Buffy was all gung-ho about talking to them, because she clearly wasn't. I think the situation, the way everything fell into place, was such that when  Buffy came home, where Spike seemed much calmer, quieter, when the Scoobies burst in, they were all frenetic and 'we got you out.' etc. Buffy gravitated towards Spike when she should have confided in her friends, agreed. But I can see why she did. I don't think the situation painted her or her friends in a bad light. They were each just responding as best they could.

On Buffy's depression with being pulled out of heaven, again, I'm just saying I can see why she would be depressed. She may have been only 21, but a good chunk of of her life revolved around violence, mayhem, death, constant pressures of constant end of world scenarios, and so on. I can completely buy her being at peace with checking out in The Gift. She was ready, I bought that. Now, her continued bad decisions post depression. That's another matter.

Because like I said in my earlier post I think, I get why Buffy gravitated towards Spike and it makes sense for her to be distracting herself with someone who absolutely worships her. My fear was it's all ok now, when Spike is in 'hero' mode, and channeling his image through his perception of Buffy's opinion of him. But what if that changes? What if Buffy loses interest or sees someone else? What will happen then?  It's dangerous. And everything Smashed-Gone has just made me realize that I think my fears might not be so crazy after all.

I have no idea or theories on why Spike can harm Buffy but not other humans. But it's interesting that the first thing he does is attempt to bite someone. He is ultimately held back because of the chip, not a soul. He repeatedly tells Buffy he loves her and in his own head, I believe he believes that. And his life revolves completely  around her, that much is obvious. But that's what makes this potentially so dangerous. Buffy doesn't seem to be realizing how quickly Spike has the potential to go unhinged. All the ingredients are there, including his ability to hurt Buffy. I really can't imagine where her heads at. he's had several opportunities to back out of things with Spike, yet every time she actively chooses not to. I've never wanted to genuinely smack her upside down the head so much. I just can't see this turning out well.

Amy de-ratting was interesting but a disappointment in terms of how she's woven into this magic addiction storyline. I'm not sure how either Amy or Willow got addicted so much, so quickly that they had to seek out that Rack guy. I appreciate that Willow is atleast trying to change. Gone was an interesting ep for her in that sense. I really regained my love for her in that ep, in fact, because I could see how hard it was for her to stay away from magic but she was giving it everything she had not to go back to it. Of course, my fundamental problem with this is the addiction itself. Yes, she's been doing more magic in the last couple of years than before, but what has suddenly made her addicted? And more importantly, how is a scenario where Willow never does any magic, ever, ok to anyone in the Scoobies? It's a ridiculous notion. Surely, there has to be another way around this. I miss Giles.

So the trio of nemesis-is-es, lol, is out. I have to admit that whole scene was hilarious. But they're still more annoying than funny. I feel the urge to skip their scenes and I haven't felt like skipping scenes since a couple of eps in season 4. 

These last three eps have really tested my patience in a lot of ways. But I still can't wait for the next episode so I don't know what that says about me, lol. Clearly I'm addicted. 

[trudi-tru]

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No more Buffy and Angel in a scene together? 

There's one more.

 

25 minutes ago, peaceout said:

what has suddenly made her addicted?

The writers said so. Magic addiction makes no sense at all. We have been seeing people use magic since the first season and Giles actively encouraged Willow to pursue it when she was a teenager yet, all of a sudden, magic is equated to drugs, complete with trips to the local dealer to get a fix and withdrawal symptoms.

In case it wasn't obvious, I violently dislike pretty much everything about season 6.

[peaceout]

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There's one more.

Only one more?? Ok, I'll take it. Something is better than nothing. Hopefully!

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In case it wasn't obvious, I violently dislike pretty much everything about season 6.

Lol, it's obvious! I'm still totally into the show but I now see what you guys were saying about this being a divisive season and all. Because even I have serious issues with Buffy/Spike and this Willow-magic storyline. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

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Since I was in a very depressed state of mind in my early 20s, I could relate very much with Buffy and her pain in season six, but I remember that I had a hard time relating to Buffy and rooting for her when I watched season six for the first time, because I hadn't really experienced anything similar to what she was going through. I do think her depression and her wanting to be dead makes sense, it's what many people with depression go through, even if they don't try to commit suicide. 

I don't dispute that Buffy being depressed makes sense. It would have made sense for her to be depressed as early as season 1, let alone season 6, with so many tragedies having befallen her over the years. The problem is we are still supposed to root for Buffy staying alive and I can't really do it because it's torturous for her. Depression storylines aren't inherently bad, it's just that I find this particular one very irritating and contrived. Plus, it's a show where if depression related issues were treated realistically all the Scoobies should have been suffering from depression, PTSD and so on and yet this is the one and only case where this kind of condition became a lengthy storyline.

Spoiler

Which nevertheless ended very unrealistically, by the way.

 

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Heaven of course was only a plot device to get Buffy there, though one would could say, with everything that happened in late season five, they wouldn't necessarily have needed this plot device to make Buffy depressed and a former shell of herself.

Which is yet another problem with the heaven thing - it was not just a plot device but arguably an unnecessary one as well. Also, it's another example of the writers' inclination to make Willow stupid and malicious because the season had to be so "dark" and "edgy" and most of all "mature", consistent characterization be damned.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[Erratic]

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I miss Giles

I hear ya!

You are almost past the worst part of Season Six. The last third is very different to the first 2/3's. I think you actually will really enjoy this season arc. Addiction Magic be damned!

[peaceout]

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Well, the whole magic addiction thing was one of the worse metaphors on the show and did not quite work. And even if we accept the whole magic is a drug storyline, it's kind of ridiculous that everyone is expecting Willow to quit Magic and go cold turkey right away. It also sucked the life out of Willow. What was such a lively and engaging character before became such a lifeless and whiny shell of her former self for the rest of her run on the show.

I'm up to Hell's Bells Now. Up until now, I still sort of see glimpses of the older Willow so it saddens me to hear that she will regress down the mopey path more. I'll admit, this magic storyline has completely confounded me. I just don't get how or why Willow is suddenly addicted when she has been doing magic for years. The only remotely logical explanation, half assed as it is, that I can come up with is that in recent years, post Primeval, particularly post Tough Love, Willow has been doing more intricate, powerful magic, with what I'm assuming are darker origins. Therefore, she's tapped into some force or element within her that is now unable to separate magic as a thing she does, rather than who she is. Hence her default mode in wanting do magic all the time as opposed to when needed. It's not a sufficient enough explanation though and it doesn't help that the show didn't help me at all in getting to this conclusion. I had to scramble to try and make some semblance of sense. I hate that Willow might not be able to do magic anymore. But this is the storyline and within that context, I am happy to see Willow trying to do better. Her warning to Amy was chilling though. Gave me Tough Love flashbacks. 

On the Buffy and Spike front, looks like I was very wrong. I'm almost relieved. I really thought their relationship was going to implode in some manic, violent confrontation where Spike would finally snap at Buffy not having the same kind of love for him that he feels he has for her. But colour me completely surprised to actually see them functioning as friendly exes in Hells Bells. I find Spike incredibly fascinating, in that he himself feels conflicted with how he wants Buffy to fit in with his life and vice versa. On one hand, you can see the dark side that wants to isolsate Buffy so he can have her immersed in his world completely. But on the other hand, is that truly even his world anymore. He hangs out with Clement the demon that couldn't scare a fly, has been actively scoobying for some time and just generally wants to be accepted by Buffy into her world. Or atleast that's the way it often comes across to me. I can't help but think Buffy was right in Smashed, where does Spike fit in anymore? I don't know where they will go with his character but it has been a helluva journey. 

I loved As You Were. It was so great seeing Riley back and I almost wish he had a larger arc but it makes sense for it to be the one ep because him returning served a very specific purpose and it did that. I found it interesting that the minute he came back, Buffy was flirting with him. It made her confession to Spike that she really was just using him that much more needed, on her part, because she needed to admit it and to verbalize it. For her own sake more than anything else. And of course when Spike says he really wasn't complaining about being used, it made the whole thing even more pathetic. I'm glad for both their character's sake that Buffy came to this realization and soon enough. I was not expecting this to be Spike's reaction, but like I said, I;m amost relieved it wasn't.

Dead Things effectively established the three annoyances as a real threat. It was scary not only what they did but how close they got to Buffy turning herself in. They need to be stopped. I don't know if if it was just me though, but by the end of this ep, I saw this potential rift between Warren and Andrew on one end and Jonathon maybe drifting to another end. He seemed less than enthused about the whole thing. Warren is creepy as F, though. Blech.

Why didn't Giles come back for the wedding??! Booooo! And why did things have to go down that way? Hells Bells had some really hilarious moments but I hate that Xander and Anya broke up. Like Buffy, they were my light at the end of the tunnel in terms of relationships as well. And now it looks like Anya will revert to her vengeance demon ways. That should be...interesting?!

Was Halfrek the woman Spike wrote poetry about before he became a vampire? The one who said, 'you're beneath me.' Is that how they seemed to know each other in Older and Far Away?

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You are almost past the worst part of Season Six. The last third is very different to the first 2/3's. I think you actually will really enjoy this season arc. Addiction Magic be damned!

I definitely sense a tonal shift again, much like I noticed in season 4, oddly. Of different kinds, but still a shift. Some of the storylines have been very frustrating but the show hasn't lost me. Atleast not so far, lol. There have been some excellent eps this season, and I've enjoyed seeing Tara's character grow and evolve as this genuine part of the gang. Plus I can see the overall theme of the gang being thrown apart in their own respective messes, to find a way back (hopefully!) to each other as their strength comes from them relying on each other and being there for each other. Not in falling apart miserably in their own little worlds.