Hell or High Water (2016)

[King of Birds]

Trailer

One of the best films of 2016. One of my other favorites is Hunt for the Wilderpeople, there's no thread for that yet.
I went in without having seen the trailer or any promotion, just recommended by friends.
Ben Foster - I had to look him up, I remember him from The Messenger a while ago.

[AimingforYoko]

Ben Foster's great and the critics who said this is Chris Pine's best acting job weren't lying.

I have to say, I was with the brothers, even after the clusterfuck where the customers got killed after going hero, right up until when Tanner sniped Alberto. The look on Jeff Bridges face just gutted me.

[thuganomics85]

Saw it a few ago, but I just saw it again with friends, and it still holds up well.  Easily my favorite film of the year so far, and I see it likely sticking at least in the top ten or maybe even top five by the end of the year.  The storyline was simple enough, but I just loved the dialogue, the scenery, the acting, and characters.

Even though the brothers were doing a horrible thing, I enjoyed seeing all the twist and turns, and eventual reveal over why they were doing it.  Even though it doesn't excuse what they did, I can see why they got desperate enough to start robbing banks.  Ben Foster is always welcomed (outside a bizarre miscast in Warcraft), and I though he brought the same kind intensity that he brings to most of his films (loved him in 3:10 to Yuma, where he stole the show at times from heavyweights like Christian Bale and Russell Crowe.)  Chris Pine though, still held his own, and I liked how Toby comes off like the more reasonable one, but as Hamilton points out at the very end, he was the one who orchestrated this entire thing, so he has just as much blood on his hands as Tanner ended up having.

Jeff Bridges was perfection as Hamilton, and Gil Birmingham (who is one of those great character actors I've seen playing various Native American roles in film and television) more then held his own opposite of him.  Had a feeling that Alberto wasn't going to make it, since there was no way Hamilton was going to kill after all the "Few days away from retirement!" comments and jokes, but it was still sad.  Hamilton looked so gutted.  Bridges was fantastic in that moment.

Really, even the minor roles were well cast, from recognizable faces (Kevin Rankin!  Dale Dickey!  Katy Mixon!), to complete unknowns.  They just felt so authentic to the story and setting, like the rancher leading the cattle from the burning fields, the bank customers, and the waitress during the "What don't you want?" scene with Hamilton and Alberto (which judging from the crowds in both of my showings, was definitely one of the favorite scenes.)

One thing I forgot about in my first viewing that stood out in the second one was the scene were Toby beats the crap out of the one punk threatening Tanner.  Even though the guy clearly had a gun and needed to be stopped, Toby did seem to go overboard with it the beatdown, and makes me think that even if Tanner was the overtly violent hothead of the duo, Toby has some of his own rage issues, that he kept pent up inside.

Only real complaints I had was Toby's brief detour to his ex and his son was a bit slow, and once and a while, the dialogue was too precious (mainly the "Were they black or white?"  "Their skins or their souls?" exchange between Hamilton and Dale Dickey's teller), but overall, I loved almost every minute it.  Recommending it to almost everyone I know.  Between this and Sicario, I'm going to pretty much check out every film written by Taylor Sheridan now.

[King of Birds]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

and the waitress during the "What don't you want?" scene with Hamilton and Alberto (which judging from the crowds in both of my showings, was definitely one of the favorite scenes.)

Yes! Great scene, I can't believe I didn't note that.

[raven]

Saw this today and a lot of it is fresh in my mind.  The scenery looked beautiful and depressing at the same time.

 

On 8/29/2016 at 8:54 AM, AimingforYoko said:

I have to say, I was with the brothers, even after the clusterfuck where the customers got killed after going hero, right up until when Tanner sniped Alberto. The look on Jeff Bridges face just gutted me.

I was as well, even though I jumped at this point (I should have seen it coming, but was so invested my mind didn't wander) and Hamilton's raw emotion was heart breaking, as well as in the scene right after he shoots Tanner.  Jeff Bridges was fantastic I thought; really everyone was; even bit pieces like the waitress with the $200 tip and the "rattlesnake" waitress stand out; the old guy with the antique coins at the bank.  When Alberto and Hamilton are verbally jousting in the hotel room and Hamilton leaves; Alberto rolls over and just looks so...worn out from having to defend his beliefs and deal with Hamilton's insults; though there was affection between them, the look on Gil Birmingham's face just conveyed how tired he was with it.   I enjoyed the brothers' attorney too, who apparently knew all about it and was all for it. 

I really liked how the bank story was pieced out throughout the movie in quiet conversations rather than an angry, shouty exposition dump. I was getting worried that the Toby wouldn't make it and the bank would get all the oil rich land.   Loved Chris Pine waiting for the bank officer to fax the lien release and then casually asking if the bank did trusts. 

On 8/29/2016 at 11:23 PM, thuganomics85 said:

 Even though the guy clearly had a gun and needed to be stopped, Toby did seem to go overboard with it the beatdown, and makes me think that even if Tanner was the overtly violent hothead of the duo, Toby has some of his own rage issues, that he kept pent up inside.

The sudden violence of that scene was well staged - I'm focused on Tanner relaxing back and the loudmouth being a jerk; Toby snaps in and beats the crap out of the guy (and remembers to throw the gun away).   We get just enough of the family story to understand - abusive father and at least verbally abusive mother.

Toby and Hamilton's little showdown on the porch was very tense.  Who knew Chris Pine could match Jeff Bridges in that scene? 

This movie definitely deserves all the rave reviews. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by raven

[Ohwell]

I saw this movie yesterday and can't add anything else, except to say I loved it.  But then, I'll see anything with Jeff Bridges in it.  It took me a few minutes to recognize Ben Foster because he's gained weight.  

Aside from people getting killed, the only other sad thing was the waitress not getting to keep her $200 tip.  I was hoping Hamilton would sneak it back to her.

[Silver Raven]

Best movie I've seen this year.  I hope it gets an Oscar nom for writing.

[sally-can-wait]

The best movie I’ve seen in a looooong time. It feels so authentic and timely and the acting is just top notch. I can easily see Jeff Bridges getting a supporting nomination. My only problem with it was that Jeff Bridges and Ben Foster tended to mumble their lines a bit. I know that was just part of the accent they were using but I really want to see it again with subtitles so I can pick up all the dialog that I missed!

[Ohwell]

12 hours ago, double-elvis said:

My only problem with it was that Jeff Bridges and Ben Foster tended to mumble their lines a bit.

I agree about Jeff Bridges mumbling.  I could understand Ben Foster though.  Jeff Bridges also mumbled through True Grit and it looks to me like there's something going on with his jaw, like it's not set right or something, which causes him to mumble in real life.  I haven't seen him in interviews lately but I'm going to see if I can find some on youtube to see if he actually talks like that now. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Just saw this one, and I have to agree with everyone else that it's really good. I'm not from West Texas, but when Toby talked about being poor, and how it's a generational sickness, it resonated. It's like he decided one day, "I'm over it, and my boys ain't dealing with this shit." I wonder how long it took him to come up with the plan.  

I know everyone loved Hamilton, and Jeff Bridges was great.  Still, I felt for Alberto.  A lot.  I've known people who think that "teasing" is entertaining.  But it's usually just so to them.  I figured it was Alberto who wouldn't make it, but I would have been okay if it was Hamilton, truth be told. I found him rather annoying. Alberto had an interesting line about how the land was Comanche till the grandparents of the whites walking around took it, and now it's been taken from them.  Except the bank is culprit rather than an army.     

The film was lot a funnier than I anticipated.   

I disagreed with the "blood of the dead people is also on Toby's hands" thing.  Also, I don't think Toby is gonna be as haunted as Hamilton assumes.  That was a bit of projection on his part.  

[Ohwell]

20 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I know everyone loved Hamilton, and Jeff Bridges was great.  Still, I felt for Alberto.  A lot.  I've known people who think that "teasing" is entertaining.  But it's usually just so to them.  I figured it was Alberto who wouldn't make it, but I would have been okay if it was Hamilton, truth be told. I found him rather annoying.

I agree about the teasing thing.  I think Alberto really did like Hamilton, even knowing that Hamilton, clueless as he was, didn't realize how much he hurt Alberto. There was one scene when they were in the hotel room and Hamilton was doing his usual teasing, and poor Alberto was lying in bed and it looked like he was going to cry.  (Or maybe he did cry, I don't remember.)  

I also would have been ok with Hamilton dying instead but I figured it would be Alberto because he had a family and was about to retire.

[ribboninthesky1]

No, he didn't cry, but he was clearly over Hamilton, heh. 

[Traveller519]

Just rented Hell or High Water on demand, so gave it a dual watch over the two days. The little moments of additional tension aren't there the second time through (Toby's car taking an extra couple seconds to turn over after the checkpoint lets him through, the second robbery and the shots fired by the coin customer, what's going to happen with the prostitute and the Comanche poker player in the casino), but the theme's really start to come through.

One of the scenes I truly like is the one with Taylor Sheriden's cowboy frustrated by the fact that he has to heard the cattle from the grassfire. "No wonder my kids have no interest in doing this." It let's the movie question whether this land, and the locals relationship with it, that is the major thematic element of the film is really worth all the struggle. The land won't love you back.

[ribboninthesky1]

I really liked that scene as well.  Popular culture likes to romanticize "living off the land," and I've never been persuaded. It was refreshing to hear a bit of real talk about it. 

[Corgi-ears]

On 1/1/2017 at 10:41 AM, ribboninthesky1 said:

 I figured it was Alberto who wouldn't make it, but I would have been okay if it was Hamilton, truth be told.

I would have liked the movie even more had Tanner's sniper fire took out Hamilton, just as he made the joke about Alberto tomahawking. And then the rest of the movie sees Alberto doing the things Hamilton does -- circling round back, killing Tanner, having the showdown with Toby, etc. Not only would this have subverted years of cinematic stereotypes, but it would have made Jeff Bridges' Oscar categorization as a supporting actor more accurate. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Yeah, that would have been pretty awesome. 

[Ohwell]

Well, it didn't win any Oscars but it was still my favorite movie last year.  

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I was prepared for the shut-out, but still disappointed.  I think its best shot was Best Screenplay, but I can see why it went to Manchester by the Sea.

Still my second favorite film of 2016, behind Moonlight.  And something I will watch over and over again (already got the Blu-ray!)

Edited February 28, 2017 by thuganomics85

[Ohwell]

I haven't seen Moonlight but that's on my list.

[snickers]

Finally saw this on DVD last week, I enjoyed it, thought it was a solid movie and l loved Chris Pine in this.  An oscar win would have been nice but Moonlight and La La Land had been getting all the love. 

My only complaint about the movie was that it was hard to understand them at times when they spoke.

[Slovenly Muse]

I gotta say, I don't much like Westerns, but I really liked this movie. I had some issues (the typical issues with Westerns), particularly with Hamilton's gross racist behaviour being waved away as "teasing" or "male bonding," like that's a legitimate way to positively interact with people, then Alberto getting killed off just to make Hamilton feel bad about the way he'd treated him. I agree with the poster upthread who said Hamilton should have been the one shot. But the "Cowboys and Indians" issues are I suppose always going to be a problem in Westerns, as long as the "Indians" are the characters considered disposable. I also was not a fan of the comparison between banks cheating people out of their property and the actual GENOCIDE (cultural and physical) of the Aboriginal peoples. I'm sure it sounded good when they thought of it, and I'm sure some folks losing their homes feel a similar sense of helpless fury... but when you really think about it, having an Aboriginal character say "Hey, this is just like what happened to MY people," especially when, on a daily basis, this character is STILL treated like a second-class citizen by someone who is supposed to be his partner and equal (in humanity if not rank), and is subject constantly to the exact same kind of racism used to justify the colonization of the New World in the first place, it's more than a little tone-deaf. The persecution of Alberto's ancestors (and even the current generation) involved so much more than just taking land, and unless the banks are perpetuating these kinds of atrocities on their members, the comparison is insulting.

Furthermore, I totally agree about some of the dialogue being a touch outlandish. And the delivery of so many lines was so ponderous... that really bugs me about a lot of "Oscar-calibre" films: the sense of drama for drama's sake.

But, apart from its racial issues, I did enjoy the story a lot. I loved the touches of Southern culture, like everyone in the restaurant wearing the same hat, or the waitress asking "What DON'T you want," because everyone orders the same thing... and especially the bank scene that put the idea of "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" to the test, without making it into a statement! I admire movies that can create such a powerful sense of place, without also either poking fun at, or aggressively defending, that place. There's no agenda, is what I mean. Just an honest, immersive experience. I really respect that. All the characterizations were brilliant and layered. I loved Toby's plan to cheat the bank right back by paying them off with their own money, and I loved the tension between the brothers' varying levels of commitment to the violence of the plan, and I even loved Tanner making his stand, giving his life (he knew he'd never survive it) to help his brother for real, just once.

On 2016-12-31 at 6:41 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

I disagreed with the "blood of the dead people is also on Toby's hands" thing.  Also, I don't think Toby is gonna be as haunted as Hamilton assumes.  That was a bit of projection on his part.

No, I think he's right. Toby came up with a plan, and got his brother involved, knowing how violent he was, how many issues he was battling. And his brother's involvement got a lot of people hurt and killed, and also was probably the only reason it actually worked. And ultimately that plan got his brother killed. Toby allowed Tanner to make that stand to cover his escape, knowing he likely wouldn't survive. He willingly sacrificed his brother (and the officers Tanner took out) in order to save his children from the cycle of poverty, and yeah, he's going to have to live with that.

Finally, the unsung hero of this movie was the soundtrack. I can't stand country music, and I loved every piece this movie used. The score was also completely beautiful (of course, it was written and performed by Nick Cave and Warren Ellis, and they always create the most hauntingly evocative soundscapes), and fit each scene perfectly.

All in all, I understand why it didn't win Best Picture, but it was a damn good movie. And possibly the only Western I've seen that I genuinely liked.