Season 4 Spoiler Speculations

[Which Tyler]

HBO have said that they want to finish the show in 7.

However, that's largely because their standard actor-contract is for 7 seasons, so any longer than that and they'll have to renegotiate contracts - though with this being GOT, not as many as you'd expect for a cast of a couple of hundred.

The 7 seasons announcement was also made before they announced seasons 5 & 6 as green-lit; which I believe is unique in TV history, certainly HBO history.

 

I feel this announcement, made in advance, is a green-light to spread the 2 books over 2 seasons, probably with at least 1, probably both of the major battles put back into Act II where they belong. They can be planned out, and scripted as one, possibly even shot as one, with the security that they're not going to get the rug pulled out from under their feet. Battle for Meereen S06:E09, with the Battle for Winterfell either intercut with Meereen, or, more likely, built up in S06:E10; probably left on a nice cliffhanger, maybe some tasty Frey Pie? This would also give the writers extra time to meet with GRRM and plan out S07+ before they get to scripting it out.'s what and what the plot beats are.

They won't be drawn on S07+ until they've got to the stage where they have to start planning it out, and finding out from GRRM what

Yes, it means going beyond 7 seasons; which in turn means renegotiating contracts; go to an 8th season, and the only contracts they need to renegotiate are characters still surviving from S01; go to 9 seasons, and you bring in S02's actors as well.

 

My money's on 8 season at the moment, with 9 being more likely than 7. I expect myself to be calling it quits on the show after S07 (possibly before) as I won't be watching after they overtake the books - I'l still buy the Blu-Rays; they'll just stay in their cellophane until I'm done reading the books.

[Meredith Quill]

Quote: from Inside TV 2011

 

'“I hope it lasts for 20 years,” says HBO programming president Michael Lombardo of the show. “I promise you we won’t stop it before it’s ready to stop … there’s a great relationship fans have with the show and we appreciate that. We’ve never seen people get so excited about casting [decisions].”. Which infers that they would be happy to continue as many seasons as D&D want to go to.'

 

This quote is from 2011, only 2 seasons in, considering the show is even bigger now, I would say it isn't HBO who want to finish the show in 7 seasons. :)

[dr pepper]

Well one possibility is this: suppose GRRM's end is for the ruler to not be Dany, Arya, or Tyrion.

In that case the series can leave them out and concentrate on the others, leading up to the big finale, where everyone swears allegiance to Jon Snow (or whoever it turns out to be), Cercei is busted to head groom for Sansa's collection of living My Little Ponies, Varys uses eastern magic to take over Littlefinger's body and find out what he's been missing, and Stannis opens a chain of barbecue joints.

And then-- an all new series set in Esteros, with Dany as queen of a coalition of cities and Arya and Tyrion as her special investigators chasing the remaining slavers.

[debi49]

Brienne and Pod run into Gendry on their travels. Wonder if that still happens...not a great use of Joe Dempsie, but if Gendry is going to be important in the future, they

may want to take the opportunity to remind us of him....

 

Also, in the reviews, Lysa says something to Littlefinger about all the things he has asked her to do. Will the truth come out about the shows oldest unsolved murder??

 

Good episode. Crasters keep is a horror show.

 

Edited April 28, 2014 by debi49

[Haleth]

Also, in the reviews, Lysa says something to Littlefinger about all the things he has asked her to do. Will the truth come out about the shows oldest unsolved murder??

 

I was just coming here to mention this.  If I recall correctly she says something like, "You have no idea of the things I have done for you."  We may get the reveal that Crazy Lysa killed her first husband.

[Which Tyler]

So how are they going to do the latest Stark meet fake-out at Craster's camp of... enough-already? (surely, no-one actually believes Jon and Bran will meet up right?; surely we HAVE been paying attention?)

 

The way I see it, we've got 3 options.

1. Introduction of Coldhands, possibly amidst a minor invasion of Wights.

2. Locke scouts ahead and interferes.

3. Bran Wargs an ex-NW, grabs a sword, and starts swinging - rinse and repeat each time the new body dies.

3a Bran Wargs Ghost to break out and save the day.

 

Personally, I want 1 or 3; but suspect it'll be 2

[joliefaire]

^  Interesting scenarios.  We know #1 is out, since John Bradley (Sam) has read the books and has confirmed there will be no Coldhands.  (alas)

 

My guess (hope) would be that Bran wargs Hodor, who slips off his chain (notice the chain is simply looped around a log, easy-peasy for Bran to figure out, not so easy for Hodor).  Hodor releases Ghost and Summer, and there we go.  Direwolf brunch ala mutineer marinade. Tasty Rast-bits sauted in salty terror sweat and spontaneous urination.  Random mutineer nuggets dipped in warm red sauce and swallowed whole, still pulsing.  The satisfying crunch-munch of crispy BadCrow bones. 

 

Ha!  So much for my recipes.  But seriously, I think it is time, and past time, for the show to showcase the direwolves.  We've only been given glimpses of them here and there throughout the series, while all the CGI budget has gone to the dragons,   There's a reason, I feel sure, why the show suddenly has Ghost in a cage at Craster's Keep and on top of that, gets Summer trapped there as well.  It is (dun, dun, dun) the time of the direwolves.  And, I can't wait!!

[WalterWhiteWalker]

Here's a crazy spec: What if Jon runs into Jojen and Meera and we get a Tower of Joy conversation?

[Hanahope]

Given how they greatly increased Bronn's role (I heard because he is a popular character), and obviously aren't immune to decent plot changes, I wonder if they might bring back Jaqen H'ghar to be part of Arya's teachers in Bravos, since he was a fairly popular character too.

[Haldebrandt]

I didn't realize that HBO made available the pre-episode "previously on" recaps well before the episode.  Has it always been the case?

 

Anyway, judging by Sunday's pre-episode recap, they are going to dish about the murder of Jon Arryn.  Great decision to do it this early.

 

Here is the video: 

[joliefaire]

I didn't realize that HBO made available the pre-episode "previously on" recaps well before the episode.  Has it always been the case?

 

 

 

 

Yes, it gets released every Thursday.

[joliefaire]

That recap video each week tells us bookwalkers a great deal about what we're going to see in the upcoming episode.  Its obviously designed to remind casual viewers of events they've seen previously, but may have forgotten.  But for us, it tells us a great deal.  We see Myrcella being shipped off to Dorne.  Ergo, in this episode we're going to see some sort of tense or confrontational scene between Oberyn (is the show ever going to call him the Red Viper??) and the Lannisters.  My guess is the Viper-Cersei conversation we've seen in various previews, where Oberyn is writing a letter in a courtyard and Cersei approaches.  We see Craster's Keep, of course, and more importantly, Ghost snarling in his cage.  Yay, Ghost is totally going to tear Rast to bloody shreds.  Serves him right for pouring the water on the ground last week when poor Ghost was obviously thirsty!  We see the previous scene of Bran warging Hodor, so we know that's going to happen in this episode.  Hopefully HodorBran will think to release Summer as well as Ghost--can't wait to see the direwolf brothers in action!  And, significantly, we see way back in the first season when Lysa Arryn's letter arrives at Winterfell, telling Catelyn and Ned that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn.  And then we see present-day Lysa skeeving all over Littlefinger (shudder) and talking about 'what I've done for you.' 

 

This episode seems early in the season, to me anyway, for the reveal of who really killed Jon Arryn, but who knows, maybe.  At any rate, its gonna be a jam-packed episode and I can't wait!

[mad_typist]

I'm calling it now: that kid who the Thenns spared (after telling him he was going to eat his parents) is going to be the one who kills Ygritte. They've already established he's at the Wall, and he claims to be a dead eye shot with a bow.

[joliefaire]

^  Yep, agree.  Chekhov's archer!

[mac123x]

I'm calling it now: that kid who the Thenns spared (after telling him he was going to eat his parents) is going to be the one who kills Ygritte. They've already established he's at the Wall, and he claims to be a dead eye shot with a bow.

 

I hope so.  Her death is one I've been looking forward to almost as much as Joffrey's.  Her constant mockery of Jon Snow (whom I don't really like much either, but he wins by comparison to her) got on my nerves.  Her mocking him for not knowing things she knows, then mocking him for knowing things she doesn't know made me hate her quite a bit.  They showed it a little more playfully on-screen than it read in the book, but I still want her to die.  Add in her actions at the village south of the wall and I really have no more use for her.

 

Plus her accent goes through my head like a nail.

 

I do have a question though:  Did we ever meet Mance Rayder's wife and sister-in-law when Jon was in their camp?  The reason I ask is that if we didn't, the writers might assign Val's role to Ygritte.  Capture her during the battle, then next season send her north of the wall to bring the surviving Wildlings back to negotiate with Lord Commander Jon.  It'd give them extra opportuntities for Jon to wangst about duty vs. feelings.

[ElizaD]

This episode seems early in the season, to me anyway, for the reveal of who really killed Jon Arryn, but who knows, maybe.

 

If they're mentioning it in the recap, maybe the reveal does happen in an earlier episode (if Jon Arryn is in the recap and Lysa refers to "the things I've done for you", that could be enough for the Unsullied to figure it out before the finale even if it isn't made explicit yet). But if it's only discussed in 4x05 and not repeated before Lysa's fall when Sansa is listening, that suggests that what Sansa heard about Jon in ASOS will not become relevant in the future.

 

I do have a question though:  Did we ever meet Mance Rayder's wife and sister-in-law when Jon was in their camp?  The reason I ask is that if we didn't, the writers might assign Val's role to Ygritte.  Capture her during the battle, then next season send her north of the wall to bring the surviving Wildlings back to negotiate with Lord Commander Jon.  It'd give them extra opportuntities for Jon to wangst about duty vs. feelings.

We didn't. Whether they include Val or a Val replacement could depend on how fast they want to get through ADWD (and that depends on whether they want to aim for seven or eight seasons right now as they're writing the S5 scripts); if Jon's assassination is the S5 cliffhanger, they could keep him busy enough with Stannis/Locke/pro- and anti-wildling NW men.

 

I'm going to be very surprised if the little archer doesn't kill Ygritte.

[Which Tyler]

So how are they going to do the latest Stark meet fake-out at Craster's camp of... enough-already? (surely, no-one actually believes Jon and Bran will meet up right?; surely we HAVE been paying attention?)

 

The way I see it, we've got 3 options.

1. Introduction of Coldhands, possibly amidst a minor invasion of Wights.

2. Locke scouts ahead and interferes.

3. Bran Wargs an ex-NW, grabs a sword, and starts swinging - rinse and repeat each time the new body dies.

3a Bran Wargs Ghost to break out and save the day.

 

Personally, I want 1 or 3; but suspect it'll be 2

Not bad - 50% is a pass rate yeah?

I'm giving myself a Locke and half a warg (I'd discounted Hodor as being too well chained to break out - I stand by that for anything but plot manipulation)

[Holmbo]

I'm going to be very surprised if the little archer doesn't kill Ygritte.

Me too.

[Independent George]

I think we're due for some historical exposition in the next 2-3 episodes. Barristan hasn't done much but stand around since his return; I'm really hoping we get Jaime reading his page in the White book, followed by Barristan explaining what happened at the Trident, and revealing to Dany some unpleasant truths about her father. The easy transition for this is Dany having to deal with Hizwhatsis in Meereen, coupled with Tywin opening diplomatic relations (or outing Jorah as a spy), and Drogon roasting a kid.

I also really hope we get some explanation of how Barristan's mere presence lends legitimacy to Dany. I hoped they would have done that at the small council meeting, but that might have been telegraphing things a bit too much. Barristan is also a living bridge between dynasties, and he could help link Dany with the Wall by sharing info on Aemon & Egg.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Independent George

[Haldebrandt]

Brienne (and Joff) read Jaime's page out loud.  It was considerably shorter than in the books, suggests that he underachieved ("there is still time" and "there is still room left on mine").  Was a bit miffed by that but, whatever.  I doubt they will revisit that.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Haldebrandt

[Lady S.]

The only lines missing were about him escorting Cersei to King's Landing and winning the tourney at her wedding. Not great achievements.

 

I'm still waiting for Tywin to disown Jaime for real and to get some alone scenes with Shae before the big reveal. His hypocrisy needs to be established or it'll be a bigger blindside than Littlefinger's Grand Conspiracies.

[Haldebrandt]

The only lines missing were about him escorting Cersei to King's Landing and winning the tourney at her wedding. Not great achievements.

 

Just checked it and I stand corrected.  Weird.  He helped defeat the Smiling Knight's crew and fought at Pyke I think, I would've thought those were worthy deeds.

[WalterWhiteWalker]

The Unsullied have noted the repeated name-dropping of the Golden Company.  This is a good setup for the Griff / Young Griff storyline to begin next season.

[warrengwonka]

Syrio's fate: I have never seen it noted here that Miyamoto Musashi, who could be called the First Sword of Japan, (late 17th century) defeated most of his opponents in deadly duels using a wooden sword against steel weapons.

[Haldebrandt]

Re Lollys, my guess is that they want to keep fan-favorite Bronn around awhile longer, so they're going to invent stuff for him to do.  I'd also guess that Maggy's prophecy will be made in real time, rather than as a flashback, and we can then watch Cersei board the crazy-train, trying to track down Tyrion.

 

As someone who hates Maggy's prophecy because it undermines the family drama by substituting the very human origins of Cersei's hate for some supernatural crap, I would love it if it played out this way.  Cersei hates Tyrion because he is an ugly dwarf who killed her mom.  The Maggy almost-retcon thing is awful.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Haldebrandt

[Hanahope]

It could be that Cersei meets up with Maggy the Frog who reminds her of their prior meeting when Cersei was a teen and Maggy made her prophecy.  It is now starting to come true.  In other words, a lot of exposition.

[Independent George]

As someone who hates Maggy's prophecy because it undermines the family drama by substituting the very human origins of Cersei's hate for some supernatural crap, I would love it if it played out this way. Cersei hates Tyrion because he is an ugly dwarf who killed her mom. The Maggy almost-retcon thing is awful.

I agree completely, and so I hope that they are willing to make a small change to 'fix' it: make this Cersei's first encounter with Maggy instead of something from her childhood. Instead of turning her against Tyrion, make it so that her existing hatred of him turns it into obsession, and blinds her to the possibility that the valonqar is actually Jaime.

[Holmbo]

Re Lollys, my guess is that they want to keep fan-favorite Bronn around awhile longer, so they're going to invent stuff for him to do.  I'd also guess that Maggy's prophecy will be made in real time, rather than as a flashback, and we can then watch Cersei board the crazy-train, trying to track down Tyrion.

 

I didn't mind the prophecy in the book because it made for some interesting speculation (I for one think that Tommen is the Valonqar). But I thought it was a good decision of the show to skip it. If they do include it I hope it'll be like you wrote.

About Bronn there has been some speculation his character will come back into the story in the book. He's up in running for inheritance for some major house, I forgot which one. So if that plays a role later perhaps they want to set it up. It could very well just be fan service though. I don't mind. It don't think they'll spend much time on it.

[Lady S.]

It could be that Cersei meets up with Maggy the Frog who reminds her of their prior meeting when Cersei was a teen and Maggy made her prophecy.  It is now starting to come true.  In other words, a lot of exposition.

Hmmm, I do like the idea of Maggy somehow running into Cersei again just to say "Ha-ha! I told you so. One kid down, two more to go. The comes your valonqar!"

[ChillinLikeSerIlyn]

 

Hmm, money is on either Jaime or Brienne, since neither's storyline has much to do in a Feast for Crows.  Maybe Jaime is sent on a diplomatic mission down south?

 

It could be Meryn Trant. Isn't Balon Swann sent to Dorne in AFfC? Maybe Trant will go in his stead.

 

I really don't see how Jaime is capable of having a battle with any half-decent warrior at this point, Obara would carve him up in seconds. I still think his path is bound to point back towards Brienne anyway. Trant is a possibility for sure, although I think they will leave him around King's Landing as a familiar face for the Kingsguard.

 

My money is on Loras. Cersei will try to get rid of him, just as in the books, but just send him South rather than off to Dragonstone. Since he is not pleased to be betrothed to her in the first place, I would think that he would want to get out of there, not to mention the Tyrells and Martells dislike each other to begin with (although they haven't played that angle up too much on the show). Also, Lora/Obara would be the best battle of the options that I can think of.

[Hecate7]

I agree completely, and so I hope that they are willing to make a small change to 'fix' it: make this Cersei's first encounter with Maggy instead of something from her childhood. Instead of turning her against Tyrion, make it so that her existing hatred of him turns it into obsession, and blinds her to the possibility that the valonqar is actually Jaime.

Maggie predicted accurately that Cersei would not marry Rhaegar, but would marry a King. That she would have three children, but her husband would have 16. And that her friend Melara wouldn't live long enough to marry, but would die that night. That lends credence to the rest of the prophecy, that Cersei would be queen until a younger, more beautiful queen came to take away everything she held dear, and that her three children would have golden crowns and golden shrouds, and that life would squeeze every last bit of happiness out of her, and THEN the valonquar would strangle her. There is nothing at all impressive about predicting that Cersei's 3 children will die before her when one already has, nor that someone's little brother somewhere will eventually choke her. The prophecy works because it starts with stuff that Maggie couldn't have known, that all came true. So I hope they do use a flashback for just this one scene, OR, that Cersei and Maggie discuss that fateful night when Maggie first made her prophecy, so that it's apparent that this prophecy has been lurking in the background all along.

 

Cersei's hatred of Tyrion began at his birth, when she was 9. Or 4, on the show. The prophecy came later in her life.

[Winnief]

 

 

Maggie predicted accurately that Cersei would not marry Rhaegar, but would marry a King. That she would have three children, but her husband would have 16. And that her friend Melara wouldn't live long enough to marry, but would die that night. That lends credence to the rest of the prophecy, that Cersei would be queen until a younger, more beautiful queen came to take away everything she held dear, and that her three children would have golden crowns and golden shrouds, and that life would squeeze every last bit of happiness out of her, and THEN the valonquar would strangle her. There is nothing at all impressive about predicting that Cersei's 3 children will die before her when one already has, nor that someone's little brother somewhere will eventually choke her. The prophecy works because it starts with stuff that Maggie couldn't have known, that all came true. So I hope they do use a flashback for just this one scene, OR, that Cersei and Maggie discuss that fateful night when Maggie first made her prophecy, so that it's apparent that this prophecy has been lurking in the background all along.

Cersei's hatred of Tyrion began at his birth, when she was 9. Or 4, on the show. The prophecy came later in her life.

 

True.  Of course another way to do it, would be to have Maggy meet Cersei for the first time-and make OTHER predictions, (besides the obvious ones about the younger more beautiful queen and the Valonqar) that we could see come true within the next episode or two for Cersei.  But yeah, I think it's more likely they'll break the no flashbacks trend.

 

Judging from these reports it doesn't look like we'll be getting as much of the IB, (we certainly don't need Vic since Dany already has a fleet in Mereen she can use,) and I'm thinking it's looking increasingly likely they'll just skip fAegon altogether especially since it would be needlessly confusing and muddy the waters when the Big Reveal about Jon is finally made.  

 

Though, clearly they're gonna do Dorne in a big way-and LOL to the idea of Antonio as Doran-that could actually be a LOT of fun.

[Lady S.]

I'm thinking it's looking increasingly likely they'll just skip fAegon altogether especially since it would be needlessly confusing and muddy the waters when the Big Reveal about Jon is finally made.  

Really? I think the repeated added mentions of the Golden Company indicate the opposite. Likely he'd come to a bad end, since he could be one of the lies Dany slays, but I doubt the Dance of the Dragons 2.0 can be easily skipped. If Vic's dragon horn proves useless, he could be written out, but Euron's been set up as a new big bad and he's been foreshadowed to meet Dany by Marwyn's vision (and possibly by the HotU if he's the grey smiling man on a ship, instead of JonCon) and by her dream in ADwD before getting married where Hizdahr turns into a man with bruised, blue lips. This obviously isn't a complete list, without any characters in the Northern sls either, unless anyone here really thinks that Mr. Frey Pies won't make the cut. (I also think the waif can't be the only character cast for Braavos.) If anything, I'd say the inclusion of all three Sand Snakes and Maggy the Frog indicates D&D won't be slashing the cast of Feast/Dance near as much as people thought/hoped.

 

And, yep, looks like we could be getting the first flashback:

[Haldebrandt]

Of all the things we could have gotten a flashback for.  You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[Winnief]

Look at this way Haldebrandt the inclusion of Maggy the Frog and young Cersei, gives me hope that Bran might see visions/flashbacks of some other events next season namely Rhaegar and Lyanna for instance-or possibly even poor Elia.  

 

 

Really? I think the repeated added mentions of the Golden Company indicate the opposite. Likely he'd come to a bad end, since he could be one of the lies Dany slays, but I doubt the Dance of the Dragons 2.0 can be easily skipped. If Vic's dragon horn proves useless, he could be written out, but Euron's been set up as a new big bad and he's been foreshadowed to meet Dany by Marwyn's vision (and possibly by the HotU if he's the grey smiling man on a ship, instead of JonCon) and by her dream in ADwD before getting married where Hizdahr turns into a man with bruised, blue lips.

 

I wonder how much of the IB subplot is going to make it to the screen.  On the show, they've established that Dany already has the exact number of ships Vic was bringing to Meereen in the books, so we don't need that buffoon's story line anymore for Dany to get to Westeros-she already has the fleet ready.  I think they'll cut Vic altogether, and I can't imagine them keeping Damp Hair either.  They might use Euron, (if for no other reason than to get another great bad guy when they're losing so many others,) but they'd be a lot more focused there as well and it's entirely possible Euron wouldn't even appear on screen until Season 6.  (Like how they delayed the arrival of the Reed's and the BwB.) 

 

No Val either, is my guess or Dalla.  No baby switcheroo subplot.

 

They definitely won't bother with the Maester conspiracy, (don't know why Martin ever threw that subplot in,) and Sam might never even go to Oldtown, but rather continue his studies in Castle Black's library.  

[ElizaD]

Of all the things we could have gotten a flashback for.  You have got to be fucking kidding me.

Well, it is another opportunity for Lannister screentime and the demonstration of their "core family" status, of course the showrunners wouldn't say no to that.

 

More seriously, if they are allowing flashbacks, they'd better start giving Bran visions: viewers don't need Maggy the Frog to believe that Cersei hates Margaery or that Jaime/Tyrion/whoever else the valonqar is could hate Cersei enough to kill her, but Bran needs some impressive, freaky stuff to do after two years of traveling.

 

The Iron Bank is one of the plots where, IMO, a lot depends on what happens in TWOW: will it be easy to dismiss with "remember how Tycho gave Stannis the Bank's money and support in S4" or will it end up involving Arya somehow? They're including more Dorne than I expected. There might be more Ironborn than I expected (noooo!), if that comment floating around about Yara's escape from Ramsay coming back to haunt her is true. I really wonder how they could include a largely book-accurate version of Dorne/Ironborn/Aegon and finish with 7 seasons.

[Winnief]

 

The Iron Bank is one of the plots where, IMO, a lot depends on what happens in TWOW: will it be easy to dismiss with "remember how Tycho gave Stannis the Bank's money and support in S4" or will it end up involving Arya somehow?

 

I'm thinking the latter. I think the IB may be how Arya gets back to Westeros-and possibly even meets the Red Woman again. And I definitely think we'll see Arya killing some emissaries from Cersei in Braavos next season.  

 

Totally agree, that we should be seeing Bran have some amazing visions next season/and or communicate with his siblings via Weirwood tree.  

 

I don't think they're going to include the whole Dorne/Ironborn/Aegon thing at all given they have seven seasons.  Aegon will be cut out completely and the IB will be seriously truncated, (No Vic or Damphair) and even in Dorne they're cutting out Qwentyn and probably combining Arianne's role into one of the Sand Snakes.  Plus I think half the reason Dorne is making the cut, is they couldn't resist the use of the new location in Spain.  LOL.  

 

One thing I'm wondering about is who's going to die next season-D&D won't want to slow the body count but Books Four and Five were a bit light in terms of fatalities to characters we'd seen before much less cared about either way.  I suspect the showrunners might accelerate the process by including deaths scheduled for TWOW, especially if the last two books were going to be as bloody as I think they are.  Hell, just including the Battles of Ice and Mereen ensures a significant death toll.

[Haleth]

What if the Maggy the Frog/prophesy flashback is one of the things Bran sees?  We'd get the information without the clunkiness of Cersei suddenly recalling Maggy's words.

 

I think there should be some inclusion of the Ironborn to show them pillaging the west.  Show Euron (or Yara?) threatening the Tyrells and Highgarden.  One more chainsaw for Cersei and the council at KL to juggle.  It might be somewhat important to have Victarion as a character too.  (But please, no Damphair!)  And just for the payoff of another toasted pretender, I hope Aegon is in the show.  Maybe I'm the only reader who enjoyed Tyrion's river cruise, though I can see from a show storytelling side how it would be better to expedite his journey to Meereen.  

[Winnief]

 

 

What if the Maggy the Frog/prophesy flashback is one of the things Bran sees?  We'd get the information without the clunkiness of Cersei suddenly recalling Maggy's words.

I think there should be some inclusion of the Ironborn to show them pillaging the west.  Show Euron (or Yara?) threatening the Tyrells and Highgarden.  One more chainsaw for Cersei and the council at KL to juggle

 

That could work Haleth.  Also one thing from AFFC, I really enjoyed was when the IB start pillaging Western coasts, near the Arbor, Margaery immediately grasps the significance of it-but Cersei is too intent on spiting Margaery and the Tyrell's by refusing to send ships to help, that she fails to see how dire the situation is-and that if KL loses Oldtown and the Reach, (that acts as the food basket for the Seven Kingdoms,) then the Realm will tear itself to pieces.  It's vintage Cersei in it's pettiness and short-sightedness as well at its callous disregard for the smallfolk.

[ThunderG]

If they skip fAegon they don't need Arianne either - the leaked info on the Sand Snakes might support that.

And if they skip Victarion as well, wouldn't that be a huge slap at GRRM and the quality of AFfC?

[Winnief]

 

 

If they skip fAegon they don't need Arianne either - the leaked info on the Sand Snakes might support that.

And if they skip Victarion as well, wouldn't that be a huge slap at GRRM and the quality of AFfC?

Maybe he needs it ThunderG.  I still can't figure out what he thought he was doing with all those Greyjoy chapters..

 

One advantage the show has over the books, is that they aren't helmed in by all those prophecies that now have to happen like the Mummer's Dragon and so forth.  I think Martin may have written himself into a corner a bit with all that and over committed to too many subplots no one really cares about.  

 

And yeah, if they were gonna do Arianne they'd have announced her-whatever role she plays can be given to one of the Sand Snakes.  No great loss there I must say.  

 

Tell the truth I'm kinda hoping they skip Qwentyn's storyline altogether too, instead of giving it to Trystane-god that was one for the Darwin awards.  It didn't play well on the page, it would do even worse on screen, (viewers would be yelling at Rhaegal to roast him) and it would just suck up time they could use for Dany's showdown with Jaqo or something.  Which I'm sure they will actually have happen during Season Five while she's missing in Mereen, and then have Dany return right after the battle.  Again her storyline is already well into ADWD territory as is, so they can and will resolve the Merreen issues a lot quicker on the show.  Can't have her sticking around there too long-they'll want Dany ready to leave by the end of Season Five so she can hit Westeros in Season 6.  

[Brn2bwild]

 

I'm thinking the latter. I think the IB may be how Arya gets back to Westeros-and possibly even meets the Red Woman again. And I definitely think we'll see Arya killing some emissaries from Cersei in Braavos next season.

We've had such a build up with her assassin training that I have trouble believing Arya's ultimate mission will be to kill some lackey of the Iron Bank.  What good would that do?  It's the institution that's powerful.  I still believe Arya is destined to make an attempt on Dany's life.

 

The problem that Aegon poses is that the show hasn't done a good job laying the ground work for the Blackfyres at all.  Unless of course, Aegon isn't really a Blackfyre.  Maybe the show could get around the issue by just having him be some random pretender selected by Varys and Illyrio.

 

 

[Winnief]

 

We've had such a build up with her assassin training that I have trouble believing Arya's ultimate mission will be to kill some lackey of the Iron Bank.

 

I didn't say the FM would ask Arya to kill someone related to the IB-but that Arya might take it on herself to do that and go off script a bit.  

And while they could do fAegon without the Blackfyre angle, I just feel it makes more sense not to do fAegon at all, but find some other role for the Golden Company.  We will see...

[ElizaD]

Text of the new audition tape from WIC comments:

 

OBARA – Admit defeat Tyene. Nym’s mother taught her the whip before the knife and fork. Will it be war?
Woman Off Camera – Prince Doran will weep for your father but nothing else. We must avenge Oberyn ourselves.
OBARA – Without Doran we have no army to march against the Lannisters.
Woman Off Camera – We don’t need an army to start a war. Queen Cersei loathes everyone and we are one of them.
OBARA – Now you may have a problem.
Woman Off Camera – What’s that?
OBARA – A ship’s captain came to me in plankytown claiming to have information to sell. I paid. He told me he smuggled Jaime Lannister into Dorne. Now he paid.
Woman Off Camera – The Kingslayer did not go to Prince Doran?
OBARA – No, they rode him ashore in secret.
Woman Off Camera – Why? He did not know. You must chose Doran’s way and peace or my way and war.
OBARA – When I was a child. Oberyn came to take me to court. I had never seen this man before yet he called himself my father. My mother wept and said you are too young and a girl. Oberyn tossed his spear at my feet and said girl or boy we fight our battles but the gods let us chose our weapons. My father pointed to the spear and to my mother’s tears. I made my choice long ago.

 

It's also pointed out in the commens that the woman ("your father" not "our father") sounds like Arianne, who's with Obara watching Nymeria and Tyene train. Or it could be Ellaria ("Prince Doran" not "my father") with a personality swap (pro- instead of anti-war).

 

I'm not too fond of the Jaime change if it's true. If one-handed Jaime becomes enough of a badass to be the regular who fights Obara (and he's got to survive that encounter), it'll mean the loss of his hand was just a temporary setback and he's back to being the fighter he was before his karmic retribution for crippling a child for life made him start using his brain instead of his sword. I hope the fight turns out to be Obara vs. Bronn if he accompanies Jaime; Bronn annoys me and I'd be thrilled if Obara killed him in a departure from the books but unlike Jaime he's a good fighter right now and it would make more sense for him to fight Obara.

[Lady S.]

What a dumb plot change. Are we losing baby trebuchet then? Boo.

[Haldebrandt]

Yikes. I found myself liking the exchange until I recalled Jaime's hand.  Good grief, his fighting days are over, leave this shit alone, D&D!

[Haleth]

Will it be Jaime who tries to spirit Myrcella away from Dorne instead of Arianna? And is ambushed by the Sand Snakes? And is scarred in the exchange?

[Winnief]

Well Bronn's going to Dorne as well, so I imagine he'll be the one fighting Obara instead of Jaime.

 

The reason, I suspect that Bronn and Jaime are in fact going to Dorne, is to help better integrate the new Dornish plots into the show.  One problem for the books was that suddenly out of nowhere we were in this completely new locale with a whole host of new characters and it was a bit jarring especially since it took a while for us to see how it all connected with the ongoing story plots we cared about.  This would be an even BIGGER problem on television-except that by introducing Dorne and its characters to us through the eyes of two well established popular characters like Jaime and Bronn, will go a long way towards helping to synthesize Dorne into the broader tapestry of the show and let them hit the ground running with the Lannister/Martell conflict.  (I fully expect Doran/Jaime scenes to ROCK.)

 

That would just be at the beginning of the season mind you too-later on the Sand Snakes will be going to KL and Jaime might well be headed to the Riverlands.

[Maximum Taco]

Text of the new audition tape from WIC comments:

 

 

 

 

It's also pointed out in the commens that the woman ("your father" not "our father") sounds like Arianne, who's with Obara watching Nymeria and Tyene train. Or it could be Ellaria ("Prince Doran" not "my father") with a personality swap (pro- instead of anti-war).

 

I'm not too fond of the Jaime change if it's true. If one-handed Jaime becomes enough of a badass to be the regular who fights Obara (and he's got to survive that encounter), it'll mean the loss of his hand was just a temporary setback and he's back to being the fighter he was before his karmic retribution for crippling a child for life made him start using his brain instead of his sword. I hope the fight turns out to be Obara vs. Bronn if he accompanies Jaime; Bronn annoys me and I'd be thrilled if Obara killed him in a departure from the books but unlike Jaime he's a good fighter right now and it would make more sense for him to fight Obara.

 

I think it just says "Woman off Camera" cause a woman is helping with the audition, it doesn't mean that Obara is speaking to a woman in the scene. For instance in one of the Trystane audition tapes there's a man reading lines that are clearly Myrcella's lines.

 

The point being it could easily be a man speaking to Obara there as well, Darkstar maybe?

Edited June 5, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Lady S.]

No Arianne but we do get he who is of the night? That's a possibility I'd rather not consider.