S03.E10: Scuttle

[HalcyonDays]

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Episode synopsis: Chandler finds himself making a difficult decision when an order comes in from the White House.

[oakville]

This episode was very exciting. Chandler hoodwinked the captain of the other ship. I loved seeing Kara & the reporter on the run. This show is copying Jericho with conspiracy theories & maps of the USA with 6 new Super States. Why did the military let Kara drive through the new border without asking for papers? It was funny when she remarked  that she was shocked that they were building a wall!. Was that an unintentional  joke about Trump?. This show is much more exciting to watch than Fear the Walking Dead.

[thuganomics85]

I knew this was leading to Kara and the reporter teaming up!  And now they are on the run!  Certainly not going to complain about getting to see Kara wield a shotgun for a few seconds.  Even though it's a bit disappointing that she's separated from the rest of the main cast, I'm glad that Marissa Neitling has gotten more to do this season, compared to the past ones.  I do hope Allison doesn't find out about poor Dennis though, because it would suck if he caught in the middle of it.  Sounds like like Allison and crew are going full-steam ahead over dissolving the USA.  Even building walls to separate the territories.  Not sure what the next play will be.  Well.... 

Spoiler

except that will involve Tex!  Glad he's finally coming back!

Totally knew that Chandler wasn't going to take the "arrest" lying down, and that he would have some big plan to retake the ship.  Glad the fight between Miller and O'Connor (which lead to the brawl) was part of the plan, because I thought they were both acting out of character for a second. I know that they're trying to frame it that the other captain is just following his orders and believes he is doing the right thing, but it's hard to warm up to him, because I still feel like he is causing unnecessary drama.  Like even if he believed Chandler did need to be arrested, what did he think there was to gain over going back on their deal with the pirates and arresting them too?  That's just creating even more problems, and that end up making it even worse for them.  I guess some of it is also him still feeling the effects of the loss of his ship and crew, but he really isn't coming off well here.

Also wasn't sure how they decided who gets locked up and who doesn't?  Why did Burke and Wolf have to be isolated (well, I guess even they knew a loose Wolf would be a bad idea), but Slattery, Jeter, and Sasha got to roam free?  If the other captain truly believed the worse, why didn't the entire senior staff get locked up?

I swear, I say this way too many times, but once again: I love Bridget Regan, but I was cracking up over Sasha's reaction when she first heard about the takeover.  She really had a "Oh, noes!  Not Chandler!!  Not my poor, sweet Chandler!  Nooo!!!" look on her face.  Maybe tone it a bit down, please.

[Dowel Jones]

I'm having trouble staying ahead of the absurdities on the show.  Low level stuff I can take, but the new captain gets his ship shot out from under him, then gets rescued by the NJ crew, and immediately starts arguing with senior staff.  Then, after all he's been through, he gets an unlikely order from the President, and goes power mad over the entire crew.  You could almost see it in his eyes.  Wouldn't a more logical response be "Hey, this sounds like bullshit.  I'm asking my superior about this."   I'm thinking he might be the outside sales guy for the Allison cartel.  And no one in the press corps thinks it's odd that the President's press conferences have been cancelled?  Allison wasn't too obvious there.  But I can't completely blame her, though.  The Prez is coming off as weak-kneed and naive at best.  Pleading with Allison to go back to the good old days.  As long as rationing is ended, he needs to see about getting a spine and an extra set of balls.  What this White House needs is Olivia Pope.  And Poppa Pope.

Building a wall.  Hee.  I guess all those barriers were pre-made, sitting in depots waiting to be used.  They went full throttle anyway, with the FEMA camps references and the rationing.  Just who is going to patrol these borders and staff the prisons and watch those warehouses?  I guess the Guard was immune to the virus because they will be in great need soon.

So, did the pirates also have deep diving capabilites?  Maybe the Nathan James should be working with them. But no, they shanked them.

I absolutely love that the NJ crew took the time to remove the windows from the bridge of the sinking ship and transfer them over to the NJ.  I presume that they also rescued medical supplies, food, and maybe a few hundred rounds of 5" cannon ammunition?  And, as long as you're there, transfer some fuel, too.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I loved the common sense questioning of Chandler's galavanting all over Asia at this time.  When he said the obvious play was to go home, I about fell over.  Truth!  I am not saying he is ultimately correct.  I am saying that this is what a sane man would think.  

Whatever one may think of new captain, that scene scuttling his ship was deeply moving, to me.  No other show can evoke such, in my opinion.  Great stuff.

I'm pretty sure if I ever took the presidential oath, I would understand that threats against my family, and the actual murder of them, was in real play.  Oliver chose...poorly.  His duty was not to his family.

Now, as I've praised new captain for his common sense, what was he thinking allowing Slattery to roam freely?  Oh well.  TLS is never going to stop having ginormous holes in logic.

The writers are still pretty much free to write whatever scenarios they wish.  Maybe there'll be a 7/11 the NJ can hit up for some snacks and fuel before they get to Tokyo Bay?

[xaxat]

They pretty much broke the show for me this episode. Previously it was about the captain and crew of the Nathan James, a United States naval vessel. 

Now? It's all about Tom Chandler. What Tom Chandler thinks and what Tom Chandler wants. Screw the lawful chain of command! Tom Chandler knows The Truth!

I did find it interesting that a Michael Bay show would take a plot from Tony Scott's movie Crimson Tide. In Scott's movie a sub crew is presented with an order to launch nukes. The captain (Gene Hackman) prepares to follow the order while his second in command (Denzel Washington) argues that they should get confirmation before taking such a drastic step. Like in the Last Ship, communications with the command structure isn't possible so Washington's crew starts a mutiny in order to stop the launch.

In real life, the US Navy really didn't like the mutiny plot. So they didn't offer any technical support or allow photography of their subs even though Scott had benefited from their cooperation in filming Top Gun.

Michael Bay has a close relationship with the US military. I wonder if it will take a hit like Scott's did.

[JackONeill]

I know it varies from movie to movie and TV show to TV show, but I would have thought this show had a military advisor(s) who reviewed all scripts?

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

In real life, the US Navy really didn't like the mutiny plot.

At the beginning of the movie The Caine Mutiny, there is a disclaimer that "There has never been a mutiny aboard a US Navy ship."  Same reason.  The USN did not like the mutiny idea, and would not grant assistance until the studio agreed to the statement.  Protecting your brand, so to speak.

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

I know it varies from movie to movie and TV show to TV show, but I would have thought this show had a military advisor(s) who reviewed all scripts?

For the first two seasons the show had more than a military adviser, they had the active assistance of the US Navy. That's how we got all of those beauty shots of the "Nathan James". With the Navy's past policies, I don't think that relationship is as close given the mutiny plot.

(An inability to film new footage might also explain why they destroyed the NJ's helicopter and replaced it with a civilian one.)

[tveyeonyou]

8 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The writers are still pretty much free to write whatever scenarios they wish.  Maybe there'll be a 7/11 the NJ can hit up for some snacks and fuel before they get to Tokyo Bay?

Just going through some of my brother's photos from when he was in the USS Guam and they actually had a 7/11 on the ship.

I just flat out love this show, being able to watch Adam Baldwin on my screen doesn't hurt either.

[JackONeill]

This may sound like a joke, and I suppose I know the answer, but do they a height MAXIMUM on personnel on ships? Baldwin can barely make it through the ship, just think an even bigger guy (if there is such a thing).

[Raja]

I know NBA "Admiral" David Robinson had his active service commitment cut because he grew to  his after being accepted to the Naval Academy 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Lord, how I hated Crimson Tide.  If war IS the obscenity, why did you choose a career which petty much guarantees you will take part in such, Commander Denzel??

Caine Mutiny is a Top 10 favorite for me.  The old salt Captain is among my favorite characters of all time.  I have had a big problem with the order given to the fleet prior to the typhoon.  The Admiral who issued it should have been charged.  No caveat given for exigent and localized peril?  My eye.

As we have seen, Peng is no fool.  He knows he has a nest of vipers on his staff and within the power structure of the new PRC.  Would he really dare to be away from the fledgling center of power for days?  To what end?  Is he the Chandler of Asia?  We're gonna have a surface battle, which, I get it, is the entire point.  Ugh.

[BasilSeal]

I'm wondering where they're going with this now, surely they're going to have to wrap things up with Peng in order to save the good old USA? but then there's at least another season to fill yet so will saving the US have to wait till next year? It seems likely to me that at least one or possibly both of these plot strands is going to have to carry on into the next season because even in the apocalypse, how many things can there be that the Nathan James has to save the world from?

[iMonrey]

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the new captain gets his ship shot out from under him, then gets rescued by the NJ crew, and immediately starts arguing with senior staff.  Then, after all he's been through, he gets an unlikely order from the President, and goes power mad over the entire crew. 

The character of Captain Meylan was an irritating trope needed to propel the plot of this episode. Kudos to the actor, Emerson Brooks, because it's a thankless role to play. The scenario just wasn't very believable, which is becoming all too common for this show. Assuming he's not evil and in league with Shaw then by default he's just dumb and/or power hungry. 

The speech Chandler gave to the makeshift tribunal while the crew was taking back his ship must have been something he rehearsed for days. It was just so carefully crafted and meticulously delivered. He missed his true calling, he should have gone into politics.

So they're building walls, really? For what purpose? If the country is being split up into five different territories and no one territory is better off than another, all run by despots that have murdered the president and taken over the central government, what would be the motivation to leave one territory for another? Are the walls meant to keep people out or keep people in?

Anyone understand just what exactly is the implication of these prisons? To round up all the non-compliant citizenry? To what end, if resources are that stretched? Why not just execute them?

What is the purpose at this point of even maintaining the pretense of a civilized, democratic leadership?

[Netfoot]

51 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What is the purpose at this point of even maintaining the pretense of a civilized, democratic leadership?

It's best if the sheeple never hear you talking about lamb chops.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

43 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

So they're building walls, really? For what purpose? If the country is being split up into five different territories and no one territory is better off than another, all run by despots that have murdered the president and taken over the central government, what would be the motivation to leave one territory for another? Are the walls meant to keep people out or keep people in?

Anyone understand just what exactly is the implication of these prisons? To round up all the non-compliant citizenry? To what end, if resources are that stretched? Why not just execute them?

What is the purpose at this point of even maintaining the pretense of a civilized, democratic leadership?

Awesome questions.  Here's my take:

Walls are for both purposes:  Keeping in and keeping out.  The de facto CSA means each are totally sovereign.  The barriers are also a super powerful psychological tool to get the people to truly understand there is no more USA.  

The prisons are for slave/hard labor.  These new countries will all need a TON of available labor to create the necessary infrastructure.  There is no "money" to pay for it all.  The prisons will also serve to temper the certain political riots which would surely ensue when the folks understand the USA is well and truly dead and they had literally no say in the new governments.  

The pretense is to get enough of the fools to not become patriots and to just accept the new way.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

Wow -- Kara's toddler makes an appearance.  I thought they had completely forgotten about her.

Apparently bottled water and canned carrots are booming what with being patriotically branded cans and bottles -- I did notice a lack of cereal on that table in Kara's house.

So, Chandler's father and kids are spiriting away Kara's mother and her daughter to safety.  Why not ?

Did Chandler's dad just say you can call me on my satphone if you need me ?  Which means that satellite communications are working, so why doesn't the NJ have their own satphone ?  Seriously, WTF ?

And Sasha has a new skillset -- medical tech.  Is there no limit to what Sasha can do ?

Scuttling the Shackleton was pretty cool.  At least they were able to strip it for spare parts (yeah, new bridge windows) before putting her down.

Really -- there are that many reporters in the recently reconstituted US of A ?

Cisco product placement in Allison's office after the daily briefing.

President Oliver's rollback of Michener's policies within 48 hours of Michener's "suicide" seems implausible -- did Michener's funeral take place the very next day after his "suicide" ?  How would they have been able to arrange all that on a day's notice ?   WTF ?

And Kara is not all that bright that she calls the mole to tell her about "the mole".  And doesn't put 2 and 2 together when Allison says she has heard no word about Rivera's death.  Come on -- it took place in the building.  Of course she tells Allison to meet her at some diner just to be careful. And what do you know, two goons show up guns at the ready and almost kill an innocent bystander.

Allison argues with one of the regional governors, and the governor reminds Allison from where her power originates.

Chandler makes a deal to get the decoder ring from the pirates.

Allison barges into President Oliver's office with an Executive order for him to sign -- to arrest Chandler (with compliance of Slattery) --  because they are a 'threat to the national security, foreign policy and economy of the United States'.  Economy ?? Really ??

Apparently Howard (President Oliver) and Allison worked together in the St. Louis government before the White House was resurrected there -- and his appeal to her better angels goes unheard.

All the former USS Shackleton crew members appear to be disdainful of the trade Chandler made.  And a message comes in for the Shackleton captain -- how exactly did the White House know to send the communique there ?

And Captain Meylan confronts Chandler on the bridge with the Executive Order -- and this is the last piece of the puzzle Chandler needs to determine that there is a mole in the White House, and they will have to go after Peng in his destroyers off the coast of Tokyo (seriously how did they get their so quickly ?)

And after a bit of a dick measuring standoff, Chandler stands down and Slattery informs the crew of the change in command -- and the Wolf and Green have been "sequestered".

May 31, 2014 -- really ?  Because that is the date on Chandler's resignation letter.  

Wow, the regional governors are getting greedy, splitting the country 6 ways like that --  and what are all those red dots for ?  Oh, they are the locations of maximum security prisons with enormous stockpiles of food and medicines in remote locations.

Kara works with the reporter -- and the reporter has been shot after they are somehow discovered by the Secret Service, but it's just a flesh wound.  But Kara guns down the Secret Service guy with the reporter's sawed-off shotgun -- I hope she takes his pistol with the silencer.

Slattery arranges a fake fight in the mess in order to steal the keys to Chandler's quarters.  Why not ?  And the whole court-martial was just a diversion and Chandler, Slattery et all retake the ship.  That was fast.

I have to admit that shot of the NJ pulling a tight 180 was pretty sweet.

Umm, are they sure Donald Trump isn't President, because they are building a wall ?  And as Kara and Jacob the reporter -- who are both wanted on murder charges -- drive through the checkpoint uncontested.

I hope they are going to find Tex.  Nevermind, they are driving in a product placement Subaru, they'll be fine.  There's no way they built that entire wall in the last 2-3 days -- they've been at that for a while.

[Dowel Jones]

The problem with the walls is not the height, but the length.  Assuming Canada and Mexico still exist as nations, walls would have to be constructed around all sides of each little nation-state, else people could just do end runs around them.  And that's not even considering water borders, such as the Great Lakes.

Prisons only work in a (theoretically) free society when the majority of citizens agree with their use.  Each governor will face a daunting task trying to convince his subjects that so much of their time will need to be devoted to infrastructure and so on.  Maybe they should print thousands of copies of 1984 for distribution first.  In any case, a West Point style chain needs to be stretched across the Mississippi at some point to inhibit the triumphant return of the USS Chandler Nathan James.

[BasilSeal]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Anyone understand just what exactly is the implication of these prisons? To round up all the non-compliant citizenry? To what end, if resources are that stretched? Why not just execute them?

killing people on this sort of scale can be a bit 'resource heavy' as well, You need infrastructure, ways to dispose of thousands of bodies a day, there would be massive logistical problems involved. (ask the Nazis). But most importantly, you'd have to find enough people actually willing to do it. I'm sure there are some people who'd be up for mass murder if the pay way good enough, here the regional governors are supposed to be using remnants of the military to enforce 'order', they might be able to persuade soldiers and reservists to incarcerate people to maintain martial law for the good of society, but killing tens of thousands of American citizens? Nazi Germany showed us that it is possible to have an entire nation complicit in mass murder, but I'd like to hope we'd stop short of such a thing today. (perhaps Trump will prove me wrong though). Also, as pointed out above, live prisoners = slave labour.

[Scootman]

I'm a little loss with the mutiny and treason talk. We the viewers know it's not treason because those orders were given by those who have committed treason. Sure, Chandler is guessing, but they did an OK of establishing that the orders broke the chain of command and were suspicious. Still a risk, but Tom Chandler is always right, so not really.

 

When the President is restored to power, this will all be figured out and no court martial.

[Tarasme]

Everybody here has such good comments.

My $.02= I'm willing to waive almost all the "how did they blank so fast?" and "why/how is he/ did they blank when blank?" because of the circumstances. The sheeple-ness of the citizenry, the efficacy of the communications, the efficiency/ speed of the mutiny/ coup/ re-org, etc. I can swallow because the re-birth of the world is quite a feat in and of itself.

Elizabeth Rohm's plan: I can believe- or at least suspend disbelief- that huge masses of people- after a viral apocalypse, would absolutely trade their liberty for food, water, and a modicum of physical protection. Why make waves when you're well fed? It'll be those that ARE NOT being well fed that begin the burning, then folks like the crew of the NJ, then those willing to sacrifice themselves- and/or their loved ones- for ideals.

I didn't quite understand Cara's "they're prisons" explanation of the dots (I can't hear for crap and my new way of watching has no caption capability- ugh). Was she stating that the resources are being stored in existing prisons or that the governors are creating prisons?  

As to the Hayward's Captain and his willingness to arrest Chandler- more waiving needed but still, Chandler's already accosted his pride by dressing him down and completely dismissing his desire to return his crew to the US. Accosted his pride and his sense of duty to his reports. He just needed a little push to assert his authority and tell Chandler to stick it. I don't think that makes him bad- or badly written- or complicit in the coup. I actually think the actor did a pretty good job of creating some nuance and depth to a character that will probably have a total of 23.5 minutes of screen time the entire season. But agreed that the whole plot point was to support Rogue Chandler.

Whatever happens, it'll be interesting to see if plot will include public awareness of the coup and breakdown of the federal government. Exploring that could be cool- but probably not fare for action packed Navy Destroyer hi-jinks.

Edited because Hayward and Shackelton were two different ships. *sigh*

Edited August 25, 2016 by Tarasme

[LocimusPrime]

• Chandler should promote himself to supreme commander of all US forces.  Heck he should be supreme commander of all American forces - US, Canadian, and Mexican 
• Meylin should be thrown in a cell and kept there until Chandler kills Peng 
• Meylin is such a hater. Chandler saved the freaking world bro. He was appointed commander of US forces  
• I loved the crimson tide scene where Denzel and Hackman face off. 
• Can the NJ be armed w nukes? I'd put a couple on just to deal w Peng. Better exterminate him quickly.
• Why doesn't Oliver just tell everyone that he's being held hostage and Allison is a traitor during the press conference. Tell the. That half the secret service is trying to take over and his family is in danger. That's his best play. 
• While in his office, he should write his own warrant for the arrest of the two secret service dudes as well as Allison.