S02.E11: Winter's Fury

[Snarklepuss]

9 hours ago, Scaeva said:

Im convinced at this point that we're not going to see anyone have a close encounter with a wolf, and it just another in a long list of fake-outs in the advertising for upcoming episodes. It's probably just something captured by a stationary camera set up by the show runners, much like some of the footage of eagles and otters and that obviously wasn't filmed by a contestant.

This may be spoilerish for anyone who didn't read the episode descriptions in their program guide, but

Spoiler

in the next episode one participant supposedly faces a potentially deadly situation, so I'm wondering if that's the wolf thing.

[cooksdelight]

I'm tired of the "I'm missing my kids/wife/life" excuses because they knew they could be out there for a year. Producers, do NOT pick people ever again who are not fully willing to be gone for a year. I'm serious, pick some  homeless or singular people who need the money. Not survival "specialists." 

Go Larry! Go David!

[seasick]

Double episodes next week I see.  Then it's over...  I will miss it.   Has anyone heard anything about a follow-up episode? 

 re; snarklepuss...

Spoiler

I think the program guide's description is more likely referring to Jose finally taking a spill off his kayak.  Frankly I think Jose's been courting 'disasters' as a justification for a tap-out

 

[raven]

37 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

I'm serious, pick some  homeless or singular people who need the money.

I just don't want people who don't know how to do the basics - fire, shelter, find food, etc.  I need some creativity while they're out there.  I'm also more "Go David, Go Larry" but beware, pretty much no one I ever want to win, does.

11 minutes ago, seasick said:

Has anyone heard anything about a follow-up episode? 

My DVR shows a reunion special on 7/21 - yay!

[ClareWalks]

I understand the "throw homeless folks out there" attitude but I don't agree. That would just be another Naked and Afraid sufferfest. There need to be skills or you're just watching torture porn basically. They should be more motivated by the money though. That's why I liked Sam, he was young and needed cash so he lasted longer than he otherwise would.

[seasick]

I don't mean to paint all the homeless with the same brush, but I wonder if they would be the most motivated simply by virtue of their homelessness.   It is possible that they aren't always the most ambitious people...just saying..

As far as basic skills--is there anything that is needed out there that any one of us couldn't do?  

I'd probably have to learn to use a ferro rod, but that would take abut 5 minutes I guess.  I'm not saying I'd be looking like a  pro, but I think I could put together the basics and figure out the fishing. (no mouse eating..sorry!) 

I agree it is fun to have a couple of them who have extra skills for the learning aspect.  But I do like to see the majority be those average Joe's who are there 'figuring it out'   like I would be doing.  However, necessity being the 'mother of invention'  I'm sure even the inexperienced would come up with some pretty cool things.    But no more people who are in the 'survival business'..please.  

[ClareWalks]

9 minutes ago, seasick said:

I don't mean to paint all the homeless with the same brush, but I wonder if they would be the most motivated simply by virtue of their homelessness.   It is possible that they aren't always the most ambitious people...just saying..

As far as basic skills--is there anything that is needed out there that any one of us couldn't do?  

I'd probably have to learn to use a ferro rod, but that would take abut 5 minutes I guess.  I'm not saying I'd be looking like a  pro, but I think I could put together the basics and figure out the fishing. (no mouse eating..sorry!) 

Oh yes, tons of skills would require either lots of practice of lots of research. Even using a ferro rod, you'd still need to know the phases of making fire and what kinds of fuel the fire requires at each stage. Not to mention shelter-building which would be tough in such a rainy, cold environment. Knowledge of edible plants and how to prepare them can take months or years to master. Being good with an ax and knife is also time-consuming, and maximizing food from animal sources (knowing what parts you can eat and how to prepare them). It is very daunting and I see why they want experts out there. Putting untrained people without any support crew around is a liability no matter how many forms they sign.

[riverheightsnancy]

I am totally not on the boat of: "The main criteria is I need money" for this show. People go on Big Brother  and Survivor for the money (which is more) and maybe the "title" and we still have tap outs with similar reasons for leaving. And those people are memorialized as quitters forever! People would need to have some basic skills otherwise, you would have 8 tap-outs on day 1 OR someone doing something to get killed or mauled on camera. That would be the end of the show. Look at Desmond, he had skills and still tapped. Look at season 1, we lost 3-4 people in 3-4 days (if my memory is right). I think that the point of this show has always been the journey with oneself and doing it alone. And to some degree that is similar to situations in other shows. You have to do your final tribal counsel alone. You think alone. And even if you make alliances (on those other shows), you are still alone with your thoughts. People can be "alone" (lonely) in a crowd. When you get down to it, all of these shows are about the psychological process and ability to be fluid and make changes on the fly. Jose struggled with that even though they have shown us very little of his struggle. David seems to overcome it, and if the previews aren't misdirects

Spoiler

Larry has a major meltdown and could likely tap based on what was shown.

I know that I am in the minority, but the stuff they have shown us (and this is purposeful on production's part) regarding Larry, he is not being edited as the winner. I feel like he has some type of mental health issue and I do not find his extreme blow-ups or swings into great weepy sadness enjoyable to watch, but maybe that is just me. Again, they are CHOOSING to show this. Why? Is this the best of his behavior?   I do not see Larry's progress as a great epiphany, quite the opposite, I see it as the wild mood swings of a person who is always like this. Has anyone ever watched those lottery winner shows? Money doesn't change your internal issues. It only makes it worse for the vast majority of winners. The majority end up broke in a number of years. The money changed nothing because they did not change their internal state.  One's issues always stem from one's internal state or abilities. They are coping mechanisms. If you don't have any before you win 500K, then you won''t automatically have it after. Larry only thinks that lack of money and a boring job is his main problem. It's not. Ok, so if he wins, he will delightedly quit his job and then become "bored " (to use his words) when he's got nothing to do. He is bored being in the wilderness (although this was his lifelong dream). He is bored in the real world and ignores his wife to escape into the computer (uh, no judgment there Larry, ;) ). Alan said this exact thing in an interview I read somewhere. He said all of those wonderful thoughts and changes one says that they will make are fleeting. Once you get back into the "real" world, all the real world issues come back into your life and your time on the island and all those grand things you were going to do or changes you were going to make, fade away. As a psychology professional the ability to change (and make it stick long-term)  is one of the most difficult and challenging things for any person to do. For those successful at it, it often requires daily practice and really working the program and being vigilant for slips. The actual nitty-gritty and daily grind of change is hard, the thoughts are easy. Larry will always be a glass half-empty guy. The island and even winning will not change it. He has to see that as part of himself and want and strongly desire to change it. I think what we are seeing of David is his real personality and in the beginning his "down" behavior was him attempting to cope with being Alone. Anyone who has ever made a major personality adjustment or even a lifestyle change (Quitting smoking, diet, exercise) knows how hard your old ingrained patterns are. I do not see the experience as a major life change for Larry. Maybe he thinks so, but the stats run against him in this instance. I had Jose as my winner, but I truly think that the editing is showing a David win and for what it's worth, that would be cool. I really loved his Eagle stories. And if Jose taps because he did what he wanted to do, then that is it. Lucas used the same reason last year and viewers were ok with it, even if disappointed. I will be disappointed for him, but hey what can you do? Sometimes skill or knowledge do not automatically = success or winning in this case.  

[ClareWalks]

@riverheightsnancy those are great points. This game is more nuanced than a Survivor or a Big Brother (which are essentially social games). It's not JUST about needing money, or about survival skills, or about being alone and introspection. It's about getting the balance of all three. If last season were just about skills or comfort in the wild, Lucas would have probably won. Alan had the best balance.

[seasick]

22 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Oh yes, tons of skills would require either lots of practice of lots of research. Even using a ferro rod, you'd still need to know the phases of making fire and what kinds of fuel the fire requires at each stage. Not to mention shelter-building which would be tough in such a rainy, cold environment. Knowledge of edible plants and how to prepare them can take months or years to master. Being good with an ax and knife is also time-consuming, and maximizing food from animal sources (knowing what parts you can eat and how to prepare them). It is very daunting and I see why they want experts out there. Putting untrained people without any support crew around is a liability no matter how many forms they sign.

I think it would be great to have highly developed skills, but I think anyone who has gone camping can put up a shelter from tarps and logs, cut wood and start a fire.   I've done it and I'm just a girl from the suburbs who has gone camping. I never found it very difficult.  Not saying it would all be pretty, but I think I could figure out some insulating techniques from the cold and rain, and filet a fish.  You got nothin' but time out there.  Except for the threat of wildlife out there (which has freaked even the most experienced as it is life or death)  the rest is not really life or death.  You can always push the button. 

 Certainly those with highly developed bushcraft skills such as knowing edible plants, boatbuilding and woodworking, preserving food, butchering wildlife, etc takes research and experience.  It was interesting to watch  but not a requirement for lasting out there.  Like most of us have agreed, the major skills and creature comforts they can provide for themselves is only a part of the challenge,  and is no indication of who will last.    

[riverheightsnancy]

49 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

@riverheightsnancy those are great points. This game is more nuanced than a Survivor or a Big Brother (which are essentially social games). It's not JUST about needing money, or about survival skills, or about being alone and introspection. It's about getting the balance of all three. If last season were just about skills or comfort in the wild, Lucas would have probably won. Alan had the best balance.

I really agree that Alan was able to balance the 3 the best to last the longest. I remember how surprised he was when they told him it was over, that he won. He really thought that it would be much longer. 

[derriere]

3 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I'm tired of the "I'm missing my kids/wife/life" excuses because they knew they could be out there for a year. Producers, do NOT pick people ever again who are not fully willing to be gone for a year.

I'm sure everyone they picked THOUGHT they were willing to be gone for a year. 

[cooksdelight]

The friend I watch the show with was homeless. For over a year. Living day to day on the banks of a river where he fished for his dinner. He survived with skills he wasn't taught, he just figured it out. That's why I made the statement I did, for him. He made a shelter, survived by his wits. Not with 10 items he was given by anyone. He was there in the heat of summer and in bitter cold of winter. That's what I'd love to see. People who aren't trained or professional survivalists.

[raven]

Moved my answer to "Fix the Show?"

ETA

Quote

I know that I am in the minority, but the stuff they have shown us (and this is purposeful on production's part) regarding Larry, he is not being edited as the winner. I feel like he has some type of mental health issue and I do not find his extreme blow-ups or swings into great weepy sadness enjoyable to watch, but maybe that is just me

I don't really think Larry is getting a winner's edit but I hesitate to attribute a mental health issue from what overall will end up being a few hours of edited footage.  If anything, David seems to be getting a winner's edit and Larry is getting a "life will be better" edit.  I don't particularly want to see Larry break down in tears and I don't find that level of emotion entertaining, but I can understand mood swings based on nothing more than hunger and a deep frustration at not being able to fix what's troubling you.  I've know people in that everyday life rut who have trouble seeing that they are the cause of their unhappiness; sometimes it's not a lot of work, you just need a metaphorical slap in the face to wake up and stop feeling sorry for yourself.  This is sort of what I see for Larry.   I'm not sure if he's outright stated that the money will make him happy, it seems more to me that he would consider winning it a measure of success for this endeavor.  He's said he doesn't have an awful life, he just hates his job, and that can be changed.

I guess I identify with some of Larry's qualities.   He's not an instructor like Jose or Nicole, not naturally camera friendly like Justin or even Mary Kate, hasn't hit a groove like David.....so he complains about most things while trying to tough it out. 

Edited July 10, 2016 by raven

[cooksdelight]

Larry makes me laugh out loud. He's good TV.

David I admire immensely, which I didn't at first. But his growth is so apparent among any contestant this season or previously. His family is very proud of him, I think.

Jose bores me and he's an opportunist, from what he said about wanting to show the world what he could do. 

[holly4755]

I agree Larry is not getting a winner's edit. While I am sure that each person is getting paid to be on this show - a small amount, but something, they are on camera on an entertainment show. I read somewhere (In distant memory) the Naked and afraid people make 5K for being on an episode. I am sure these people also make something small. Amazing race people earn a weekly fee as well, less I think at one time, but since they have to go on vacation until the show is over, something for the full time.

as to family, ever notice how anniversaries, birthdays,, specific dates bring the draw of home. Add hunger and cold and the pull of memories get stronger. Think how long MK would have lasted with a toddler if she had not hurt her hand. 

[lidarose9]

3 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

 

I know that I am in the minority, but the stuff they have shown us (and this is purposeful on production's part) regarding Larry, he is not being edited as the winner. I feel like he has some type of mental health issue and I do not find his extreme blow-ups or swings into great weepy sadness enjoyable to watch, but maybe that is just me. Again, they are CHOOSING to show this. Why? Is this the best of his behavior?   I do not see Larry's progress as a great epiphany, quite the opposite, I see it as the wild mood swings of a person who is always like this. Has anyone ever watched those lottery winner shows? Money doesn't change your internal issues. It only makes it worse for the vast majority of winners. The majority end up broke in a number of years. The money changed nothing because they did not change their internal state.  One's issues always stem from one's internal state or abilities. They are coping mechanisms. If you don't have any before you win 500K, then you won''t automatically have it after. 

ITA. Money doesn't change the underlying facts of who you are. I have seen this in real life many times.

About putting homeless people into these kinds of competitions: on the one hand, it would be fascinating, but on the other, I worry that is one step away from Hunger Games. It would be like the people in Victorian times who went to the insane asylum to watch the lunatics for entertainment. Everybody (nearly) is motivated by winning big sums of money, but none of these people are going hungry in their real lives. Their trials in real life are psychological: frustration, unhappiness, boredom, etc. I am moved by Sweary Larry's emotional rawness, but when he leaves, he has family, wife, kids, people that love him, a life.

I just watched one of the Naked and Afraid series, where they show people's body weight before/after, and I couldn't help thinking: they all had the extra weight to lose, to start out with. That is what makes it feel OK to watch them starve for 40 days. There's a thin line in there somewhere.

I personally am most interested in the survival skills, the long-forgotten abilities that used to be commonplace but now are a specialty that only certain people know and master. I could watch a whole hour showing how these people built their shelters, what was their thought process, how they chose the site, what materials, etc.

[riverheightsnancy]

I am interested in survival skills too, and I wish they would show more of that and their camps as well. I do have to agree with CooksDelight (upthread) that there are people all over the world who have no training and due to circumstance, learn how to do these things whether they are ready or not. I felt that way as a new mom. ;) But, for a reality TV show, I just don't want to see that without protections. Maybe a spin off with this group of people, but the real live predators are an issue (IMO) for a game show. If they were in a fenced compound, then it maybe could be feasible.  I think that the producers of reality shows do keep pushing the boundaries of what is "ok" and to me, it might come off as exploitive (not that most reality TV isn't).  Perhaps, if each novice were give a solid week with one of the long lasting alumni and then let out there, that might be interesting. As it is, the pros had to prove their mettle to get through the final stage as well. I think the danger element is why they are so cautious.  I could see a spin-off with regular people or homeless people, if done in a way that protects them in some capacity. 

[seasick]

What is so special about the 'homeless"?  Most live in cities anyway.  I think the 'Huckleberry Finn"  picture of  homeless life fishing by the river is not too common.     Nothing tells me they would be any more enduring due to a money prize anyway.    BTW Tracy was technically 'homeless"--actually living out on the AT.   I'm sure it was a lifestyle choice.

Besides the reality is that many are have psychological issues that either fall thru the cracks of social service, or they can't handle dealing with the conditions of social services and lose their benefits.  Many are addicts.   Certainly there are some homeless who have lost their job or have had med issues that drained them, but they might be more interested in getting back into the workforce rather than attempt this.  

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 6:57 AM, cooksdelight said:

That's why I wish they wouldn't recruite survival experts. Let people apply, people who need the money. I think it would make for a much more interesting show.

But that would be a totally different show. I think wilderness survival experience is a minimum requirement for the show.  

[humbleopinion]

How about a dozen Boy Scout Leaders?

I'd watch that.

[LocimusPrime]

13 hours ago, seasick said:

I don't mean to paint all the homeless with the same brush, but I wonder if they would be the most motivated simply by virtue of their homelessness.   It is possible that they aren't always the most ambitious people...just saying..

As far as basic skills--is there anything that is needed out there that any one of us couldn't do?  

I'd probably have to learn to use a ferro rod, but that would take abut 5 minutes I guess.  I'm not saying I'd be looking like a  pro, but I think I could put together the basics and figure out the fishing. (no mouse eating..sorry!) 

I agree it is fun to have a couple of them who have extra skills for the learning aspect.  But I do like to see the majority be those average Joe's who are there 'figuring it out'   like I would be doing.  However, necessity being the 'mother of invention'  I'm sure even the inexperienced would come up with some pretty cool things.    But no more people who are in the 'survival business'..please.  

Right on! I don't see a lot skill sets that I couldn't do right now. These shelters are pretty easy. I could probably make a little log cabin, start a fire, smoke salmon, set up my nets, crab, fish, make a couple fish traps, ect. The whole game is fighting boredom. A know a couple of men who were POWs, and they where kept from their families for over 12 years, kept in isolation for extended periods of time -6 monthes plus, beaten, and starved. They would destroy at this show.  

[candall]

20 hours ago, derriere said:

I'm sure everyone they picked THOUGHT they were willing to be gone for a year. 

See, I think it was just the opposite--they all watched Season One and clocked Day 57 as the approximate benchmark.  "Two months-plus?  Piece o'cake."

 

I didn't see anyone scurrying around trying to put together a structure to winter in.  No one mentioned needing to hustle butt during the good weather because January was really going to be a bitch. 

And while I enjoyed Nicole's cheery demeanor, I kept wondering when she was going to give some thought to anything beyond her immediate hunger point.  She was in trouble when cold weather killed her backup grazing cafe'.  I mean, wouldn't that be something you might anticipate?

***********

Just had a thought.  Could we tell what kind of time period they expected from their clothing and sleeping bag selections?  Did anyone pass on the warmest stuff possible?  Were snowshoes an option?

[seasick]

4 hours ago, candall said:

See, I think it was just the opposite--they all watched Season One and clocked Day 57 as the approximate benchmark.  "Two months-plus?  Piece o'cake."

 

I didn't see anyone scurrying around trying to put together a structure to winter in.  No one mentioned needing to hustle butt during the good weather because January was really going to be a bitch. 

And while I enjoyed Nicole's cheery demeanor, I kept wondering when she was going to give some thought to anything beyond her immediate hunger point.  She was in trouble when cold weather killed her backup grazing cafe'.  I mean, wouldn't that be something you might anticipate?

***********

Just had a thought.  Could we tell what kind of time period they expected from their clothing and sleeping bag selections?  Did anyone pass on the warmest stuff possible?  Were snowshoes an option?

I couldn't agree more.   I think Larry and David were the only two committed from the start to stick it out as long as it took.  (I'm sure they prayed it wasn't much past 2 or 3 months but I believe now they were committed to the win from the start)

No wonder Jose didn't show his camp--it was for nothing.  i have no words either for Nicole's 'surprise" that the frost came in October and killed the edibles.  None of them appear to have the cold lean months in their plan --even Larry and David who seem very committed to the win. And this is why I can't consider any of the contestants  'experts'.  

Their clothing options were fairly specific.  A hat, a gator, gloves, 2 pairs of this 2 of those etc.  I think shorts were an option if your pants were the zippered convertible kind.   It wasn't alot of clothing.  Did anyone bring a short-sleeved Hawaiian shirt instead of a long flannel ?  I don't know .  Snowshoes were not an option, but generally the PNW doesn't have that much depth of snow.  It hovers around 25-35 degrees F rain--freeze--thaw-- ice--icey rain-snow-rain  It's baaaad.  Worse to me than lots of snow and then sunny days.  

Edited July 11, 2016 by seasick
typos

[holly4755]

I think that there are additional clothes given to them if they last until winter - gloves and sweater and hat. I have to find where I read that, but it was somewhere. I guess if they gave them a sweater too early they would have made it into additional fishing nets. 

[candall]

6 hours ago, seasick said:

None of them appear to have the cold lean months in their plan --even Larry and David who seem very committed to the win. And this is why I can't consider any of the contestants  'experts'.  

The first season of a reality competition is always so interesting for the learn-as-you-go aspect on both sides of the camera.  After Season One, Survivor contestants get hungry, but not desperately rat rotisserie hungry.  (Larry would have thought he was in tall cotton.)

The first Alone people bid their loved ones a year-long fond farewell and trooped off into the wintery landscape, but I doubt anyone in this batch even did their Christmas shopping.

Edited July 11, 2016 by candall

[humbleopinion]

Didn't even put a hold on their subscription to Field and Stream.

[SRTouch]

On 7/10/2016 at 7:45 PM, humbleopinion said:

How about a dozen Boy Scout Leaders?

I'd watch that.

Actually, I've said in the past that the training a Boy Scout gets could really help in a survival situation. Except for 1 year back in the early 60's when I was a cub scout, I've never been a scout, but I served with a couple  guys in the Army who made Eagle Scout who claimed Scout training rivaled Army training.

As I understand it, there's scout training and then there's scout training. There are something like 130 merit badges, and quite a few would be next to useless on Alone. Let's say you make an Eagle Scout a contestant. To be an Eagle Scout you have to earn 21 Merit Badges, 13 from a required list. Only 2 or 3 of the required Badges would help a contestant (Camping, First Aid, and Physical Fitness, Hiking). After those it all depends on what the Scout studied. If he gets a badge in Wilderness Survival, Fishing, Wood Carving, Pioneering, Basket Weaving, and a few others, no doubt that would help. Other Badges ... not so much. Some have nothing to do with the woods, I mean things like Robotics, Animation, Radio, Salesmanship - actually I haven't counted but my guess looking at the list of 130 Badges, I'd that the majority would be useless.

Oh, here's a link where I'm getting this info https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_badge_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)

[humbleopinion]

You would want a wide spectrum of Boy Scout Leaders from the hardcore who were Eagle Scouts themselves to the urban Scout Leaders who lead packs made of city kids that spends minimal time outdoors.

With the week of basic survival skills afforded to all Aloners the ones who spent less time outdoors could learn and hone the basic skills needed to participate.

As the second season winds down, it look likes the will to win supersedes the level of survival skills.

I'd watch that.

[SRTouch]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

You would want a wide spectrum of Boy Scout Leaders from the hardcore who were Eagle Scouts themselves to the urban Scout Leaders who lead packs made of city kids that spends minimal time outdoors.

With the week of basic survival skills afforded to all Aloners the ones who spent less time outdoors could learn and hone the basic skills needed to participate.

As the second season winds down, it look likes the will to win supersedes the level of survival skills.

I'd watch that.

I suppose the other part of the equation is the being "Alone". After all, a big part of being a Scout is social, and as we've seen having the skill to survive doesn't mean you will have the right mindset to last.

Edited July 12, 2016 by SRTouch
Wording changed

[LocimusPrime]

On July 10, 2016 at 10:43 AM, seasick said:

I think it would be great to have highly developed skills, but I think anyone who has gone camping can put up a shelter from tarps and logs, cut wood and start a fire.   I've done it and I'm just a girl from the suburbs who has gone camping. I never found it very difficult.  Not saying it would all be pretty, but I think I could figure out some insulating techniques from the cold and rain, and filet a fish.  You got nothin' but time out there.  Except for the threat of wildlife out there (which has freaked even the most experienced as it is life or death)  the rest is not really life or death.  You can always push the button. 

 Certainly those with highly developed bushcraft skills such as knowing edible plants, boatbuilding and woodworking, preserving food, butchering wildlife, etc takes research and experience.  It was interesting to watch  but not a requirement for lasting out there.  Like most of us have agreed, the major skills and creature comforts they can provide for themselves is only a part of the challenge,  and is no indication of who will last.    

You are so right!  Just google edible plants and Vancouver island. Spend like 2 weeks memorizing them, their growth areas, and how to prepare ( shouldn't even take that long). Most of the stuff you see, you did as kid growing up - building campfires, shelters, crabbing, ect. 

[Joan Z]

I find it strange that Jose seems to rely on gillnet and fishing line to get food. I expected with his knowledge, we would see him making different kind of traps and explore different food sources (other than fish, mushrooms, limpets, etc). Or maybe he did but they didn't show it?! 

[seasick]

6 hours ago, LocimusPrime said:

You are so right!  Just google edible plants and Vancouver island. Spend like 2 weeks memorizing them, their growth areas, and how to prepare ( shouldn't even take that long). Most of the stuff you see, you did as kid growing up - building campfires, shelters, crabbing, ect. 

I wish I had your optimism that it would be that easy!  I think the only way I could ever learn wild edibles (other than a few very common ones like dandelions) would be walking with an expert.  I find it's really difficult to identify plants from pictures.  One of the things that impressed me and made me a bit envious was their use of wild mushrooms.  I assume they were chanterelles and maybe easier than most to identify, but we all know one bad choice  of a look-alike with a mushroom and it's really bad news!  Only plenty of first-hand teaching would convince me that I could correctly identify them.  

As far as rudimentary shelter and fire, I think if we were all kidnapped and put out there for the show, most all of us could do that.   (I can hear your wheels turning about making that into a real show in Kidnappistann so good luck with that! I don't always agree with your ideas but I do admire your imagination and passion.)  

[ClareWalks]

3 minutes ago, seasick said:

I wish I had your optimism that it would be that easy!  I think the only way I could ever learn wild edibles (other than a few very common ones like dandelions) would be walking with an expert.  I find it's really difficult to identify plants from pictures.

Totally agree, I have a really tough time with that too! Plus I've read guides about edible plants and lots of times only certain parts of the plant are edible, and/or they must be properly prepared (roasted, boiled, raw, etc). Lots to learn.

[riverheightsnancy]

Jose has said this on his Facebook videos, that it is much, much harder than couch cruisers (my word) think it is. Even for those who are prepared, it is very hard. I think that it is especially hard because these guys know that they can tap and change their circumstance in a split second. Therein lies the rub. If anyone of us was in a poverty stricken circumstance (IRL) and you could press a magic button and change your circumstances instantly, how many of us wouldn't? How long would we be willing to struggle? That is the ultimate dilemma for the Aloners. They can immediately change their circumstance. Even Justin talked about making that impulse move to tap out and then regretting it once you have eaten a burger. I also think that it is acceptable that people who train others in bushcraft  also represent a segment on the show. I mean, in many ways if they do poorly, it can really hurt their reputation and possibly cause a real amount of self-doubt and reflection on what they are doing in life. They can't walk the walk in other words. I think that most bushcraft teachers really want to test themselves in a real situation. I still think that Mike would have been a beast if he only could separate from his social life (Barbara) for longer. 

In addition, since these guys started earlier, I think that they would need to surpass the physical date of season 1, to actually illustrate better survival skills over season 1. In my opinion, it is NOT about the number of days, but an actual date in time in respect to having to enduring the same or similar conditions/weather. These guys only started to experience the cold and rain. Season 2 has had decent stretches of warm weather and not constant rain. Does anyone know around about (the actual date) when season 1 ended? 

[humbleopinion]

Just going on what each Aloner videoed of themselves, Nicole was the only one confident in her knowledge of wild edibles to munch a meal by what she found in her designated area.

Even though they all got the memo on what wasn't going to kill you plant wise on VI, the risk of GI blowout was not worth getting their daily dose of fiber even though they learned it isn't poisonous/toxic/deadly.

Bull kelp was the go to bulk fiber for David...dude, TMI about your "train" schedule.

[riverheightsnancy]

4 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Just going on what each Aloner videoed of themselves, Nicole was the only one confident in her knowledge of wild edibles to munch a meal by what she found in her designated area.

Even though they all got the memo on what wasn't going to kill you plant wise on VI, the risk of GI blowout was not worth getting their daily dose of fiber even though they learned it isn't poisonous/toxic/deadly.

Bull kelp was the go to bulk fiber for David...dude, TMI about your "train" schedule.

Yeah, so true. If anyone watched the reality show last summer called The Island, it was a similar type of thing, but in groups. One guy was so hungry that he ate tree bark. It caused an impaction in his bowel. It was a serious issue. They actually had an ER doc on the island with them and I think this guy got taken off, because of the issue, but my memory is foggy. That show was really bad, but good times on the forum snarking on them. (Remember that Cooksdelight? lol)

[seasick]

1 hour ago, Joan Z said:

I find it strange that Jose seems to rely on gillnet and fishing line to get food. I expected with his knowledge, we would see him making different kind of traps and explore different food sources (other than fish, mushrooms, limpets, etc). Or maybe he did but they didn't show it?! 

As much as I love to pick on the editing of the show, I think in this case it was Jose's single-minded focus on the boat etc.  From what we saw and what he said,  I believe he was there (only) to demonstrate his woodworking skills and the esoteric bush tools he has seen in his travels.  

My impression of trapping there is that larger 'game' such as raccoon or fox is either not allowed or discouraged due to possible waste.  I notice too that the fish and crabs they catch are killed immediately to avoid suffering.  This may be a tradition of the indigenous people in this area that they have been instructed to follow. (I agree with it,but rarely see it anywhere else). But only having knives it could be both difficult and dangerous to do a humane killing on trapped larger game.  (just my speculation)

[seasick]

16 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Jose has said this on his Facebook videos, that it is much, much harder than couch cruisers (my word) think it is. Even for those who are prepared, it is very hard. I think that it is especially hard because these guys know that they can tap and change their circumstance in a split second. Therein lies the rub. If anyone of us was in a poverty stricken circumstance (IRL) and you could press a magic button and change your circumstances instantly, how many of us wouldn't? How long would we be willing to struggle? That is the ultimate dilemma for the Aloners. They can immediately change their circumstance. Even Justin talked about making that impulse move to tap out and then regretting it once you have eaten a burger. I also think that it is acceptable that people who train others in bushcraft  also represent a segment on the show. I mean, in many ways if they do poorly, it can really hurt their reputation and possibly cause a real amount of self-doubt and reflection on what they are doing in life. They can't walk the walk in other words. I think that most bushcraft teachers really want to test themselves in a real situation. I still think that Mike would have been a beast if he only could separate from his social life (Barbara) for longer. 

In addition, since these guys started earlier, I think that they would need to surpass the physical date of season 1, to actually illustrate better survival skills over season 1. In my opinion, it is NOT about the number of days, but an actual date in time in respect to having to enduring the same or similar conditions/weather. These guys only started to experience the cold and rain. Season 2 has had decent stretches of warm weather and not constant rain. Does anyone know around about (the actual date) when season 1 ended? 

To me, Mike demonstrated why the teachers aren't the best for the show.  He did his thing--was a beast for sure-- showed his impressive skills, and then tapped for what I would consider mild common discomfort in missing his wife.  If he was committed from the start to try to win, he would have easily accepted that as business as usual.  I don't think anyone believes they aren't going to long for their loved ones during a (likely)  2 or 3 month commitment.  

I agree that there is little comparison in the weather from S1 and S2 and I think that kind of nasty weather really separates 'the men from the boys" rather quickly.  I *think* I recall someone saying in S1 that 'today was Thanksgiving" but don't quote me on that.  I do agree the same time frame during the season change is an important element in comparing the challenge.  But I guess they aren't considering a comparison of the two seasons that important.

[qtpye]

Quote

As much as I love to pick on the editing of the show, I think in this case it was Jose's single-minded focus on the boat etc.  From what we saw and what he said,  I believe he was there (only) to demonstrate his woodworking skills and the esoteric bush tools he has seen in his travels.  

It's too bad that he did not use that focus to build an awesome shelter, instead of a boat that he will soon not be able to take out into cold water (by his own admission).  It was mind numbing that he was working on this boat many weeks, after anyone who has ever watched a nature video knows, that the salmon run was long over.  Quite frankly, it really did not look that great.  I was much more impressed with Mike's ingenuity or that other guy's log cabin shelter.  

It also was crazy that when it was obvious that the Salmon was long gone, he did not have any type of back up plan.  If Jose had been an indigenous person and not a reality show contestant...he would have starved to death huddled in his freezing cold flimsy shelter before winter's end.

[seasick]

6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It's too bad that he did not use that focus to build an awesome shelter, instead of a boat that he will soon not be able to take out into cold water (by his own admission).  It was mind numbing that he was working on this boat many weeks, after anyone who has ever watched a nature video knows, that the salmon run was long over.  Quite frankly, it really did not look that great.  I was much more impressed with Mike's ingenuity or that other guy's log cabin shelter.  

It also was crazy that when it was obvious that the Salmon was long gone, he did not have any type of back up plan.  If Jose had been an indigenous person and not a reality show contestant...he would have starved to death huddled in his freezing cold flimsy shelter before winter's end.

You cannot survive on ego alone.  Sorry Jose.

[SRTouch]

1 hour ago, seasick said:

I wish I had your optimism that it would be that easy!  I think the only way I could ever learn wild edibles (other than a few very common ones like dandelions) would be walking with an expert.  I find it's really difficult to identify plants from pictures.  One of the things that impressed me and made me a bit envious was their use of wild mushrooms.  I assume they were chanterelles and maybe easier than most to identify, but we all know one bad choice  of a look-alike with a mushroom and it's really bad news!  Only plenty of first-hand teaching would convince me that I could correctly identify them.  

As far as rudimentary shelter and fire, I think if we were all kidnapped and put out there for the show, most all of us could do that.   (I can hear your wheels turning about making that into a real show in Kidnappistann so good luck with that! I don't always agree with your ideas but I do admire your imagination and passion.)  

ITA if I were plopped down in a rain forest like to think I could survive a while. I could build a shelter. As Justin and Larry found out, finding a good site can be as important as the structure. Finding enough dry material for a fire may be more problematic, but I like to think I'd find it doable - especially given a firestarter. Food would be my big problem. Like several of the contestants have said, I've never used a gill net. Actually putting it up seems to be easy enough. When using the net it seems location is the key to success. You not only need to put it in the path of where the fish travel, but you have to avoid areas where the current will wash logs and kelp into the net. As for foraging, I know next to nothing about what plants and or mushrooms are edible vs which would cause gi distress or even death. Unlike some folks, seeing a picture of an edible plant would not make me confident enough to plop it in my mouth. As for mushrooms, I wouldn't be able to forget the old adage for mushroom harvesting which goes, "all mushrooms are edible, but some you only eat once." Like you say, only way for me to get enough confidence to forage would be to spend a few days time on the ground with someone who knows what is safe. Even then, once the season changes, once was safe when it was green may cause problems now that winter is here. Fiddleheads come to mind: safe, even desirable in springtime, but something to avoid at other times; Safe cooked, not so much raw.

[seasick]

I agree. I don't see fire and basic shelter a huge challenge.  As far as the wildlife goes, I believe I would have been okay with the proximity of the bears at Nicole's site, but If I was at Tracy's I think you would have seen me walking (runnng) on water ( only because I'd be praying so hard).. I'd like to think otherwise--but I seriously doubt I'd be honking, yelling, and then going back to sleep.  Of course there would Not have been two nights at that spot if for some reason I got past it, and there would have been Zero sleep during the night for days. 

I know the food would do me in. Even if I had plenty of fish and crabs I don't think I could withstand the diet for long. Although I do think at times if they delivered really good food and coffee to me, I could stay out there a pretty long time.  Especially with this season's weather.  I think I'd have a pretty good time experimenting with my fantasies of building a cabin, seeing what I could do with stuff I found on the beach, or trying to make a rudimentary raft or watercraft.  I'm guessing I'd last about three to five weeks until the isolation got to me and I ran out of fantasy projects. (assuming there was no prize for "Alone with meal delivery")  

[riverheightsnancy]

I think I would suck and tap in under 3 days. Maybe even faster. Its the animals that scare me the most. All the other stuff I think that I could deal with to an extent.  But I have experienced natural child birth, so maybe I am tougher than I think! ;) lol

[cooksdelight]

The one tapout that surprised me the most was Justin. He is former military, used to being away on deployment for long periods of time. I expected him to win.

The animals don't worry me. I have deer, a coyote, lots of pesky raccoons and opossums around my house all the time. I had a small black bear come up onto my deck, made my dog go nuts. They are much more afraid of you or what you might do to them.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

think I would suck and tap in under 3 days. Maybe even faster. Its the animals that scare me the most.

 

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

he animals don't worry me. I have deer, a coyote, lots of pesky raccoons and opossums around my house all the time. I had a small black bear come up onto my deck, made my dog go nuts. They are much more afraid of you or what you might do to them.

Remember according to Larry, VI mice are geniuses that will try to plot your downfall.  Also, David told us the eagles hate Americans, which might apply to you if you from the United States.

[SRTouch]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

 

Remember according to Larry, VI mice are geniuses that will try to plot your downfall.  Also, David told us the eagles hate Americans, which might apply to you if you from the United States.

And don't forget the evil minks... turn your back for a second and they steal your fish... wouldn't put it passed them to grease up the rocks so you fall in and you lose your spool of fish line. Oh, and seals ... 300 lb seal will not only steal your ginormous fish that your saw swim into your net and that you've been waiting for the tide to go down so you could eat, but they tear up your net and leave you the skull.

[candall]

Occasionally I've thought this show should be called Hungry instead of Alone.  But then again, no, because I think I know what gets them all in the end and it's not hunger.

I'm not an outdoorsy-camper person, but I do have this one semi-relevant experience:  A few years ago, an ice storm came along and barricaded my little dirt lane with half a dozen shattered oak trees.  I didn't know the storm had knocked the whole county on its ass, with miles of utility poles sheared off at ground level and two dozen small towns immobilized--or that I had several weeks ahead with no power, heat or plumbing before a bulldozer came along.   I wasn't out in the woods, no bears, but it was still kind of a hairy situation, with indefinite duration and an odd bonus measure of uncertainty about what was going on outside me-world.

 

I had about fifty issues more immediate than "lack of human contact" so sometimes I snort at all the waah-waahing from the Aloners, but then I try to imagine my whole experience without books?  The full daylight hours were short and busy--chipping out wood, melting ice for water, not breaking my leg--but it started getting dusky around 4:15 and if I dozed off for more than two hours at night, the fire would go out, the freezing cold came blasting down the chimney and the whole place turned into Dr. Zhivago. 

So the one thing I dreaded was running out of flashlight batteries, because without reading, I'd start dwelling on negative thoughts.  I'm cold.  My face is really cold.  My nose is especially cold.  Frostbite?  The nose is the first to go.  Is it that cold?  No.  This is ridiculous.  Come on, flashlight, let's go, stay with me.  What page was I on? 

I had a mini tap-out every night, disappearing into a book.

 

I think the show title should be:  "Hundreds of Hours With Nothing To Distract You From Your Physical Discomfort Or Otherwise Occupy Your Mind."

[crabatha]

I'm rooting for either Larry or David for the win, but as some of you mentioned, it might be even more transformational for Larry. I think he has a lot of self loathing going on. Can you imagine the look on his face if he DID win? It's been fascinating to watch their transformation. I love this show!

About Jose & the mussels: I worked in the restaurant business for a million years, and every time I had to be re-certified by ServeSafe, I'd freak when reading about Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning. (PSP) You can't tell if shellfish are contaminated by looking at them, there's no difference in taste, and there's no antidote. You can suffocate to death w/in a half an hour.

Now, if I were truly starving to death, I'm sure I eat the damned shellfish, but eat them for the sake of a TV show? No way! Therefore, I've decided that Jose is a total idiot & fame whore who only wanted to show off his skills.

Go, Larry & David!

[Joan Z]

9 hours ago, seasick said:

As much as I love to pick on the editing of the show, I think in this case it was Jose's single-minded focus on the boat etc.  From what we saw and what he said,  I believe he was there (only) to demonstrate his woodworking skills and the esoteric bush tools he has seen in his travels.  

My impression of trapping there is that larger 'game' such as raccoon or fox is either not allowed or discouraged due to possible waste.  I notice too that the fish and crabs they catch are killed immediately to avoid suffering.  This may be a tradition of the indigenous people in this area that they have been instructed to follow. (I agree with it,but rarely see it anywhere else). But only having knives it could be both difficult and dangerous to do a humane killing on trapped larger game.  (just my speculation)

I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to trap larger game. When I mentioned about making traps, i was actually thinking about smaller game like squirrels, bunny or bird. Or at least make fish or crab traps. When Nicole checked her gillnet, there was a flock of geese a few feet away from her. Idk if she hunts but I'd like to think that if she's in a real survival situation and not in a TV show with a bunch of limitations, one of those geese would be her meal. Heck, I'd like to think the minks would be David's meal if he's in real survival situation. The same thing with cutting trees - i'm pretty sure there are some rules on what trees they can and can't use that prevents many of them from building a better shelter. 

Next season could be interesting if they have different do's and donts since next season sets in Patagonia. Surely the hunting and wildlife laws are different in Patagonia and VI, right?!