S02.E05: Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except For Me and My Monkey

[shapeshifter]

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Internal affairs turns up the heat on Hodiak, but a tragedy interrupts the investigation. Meanwhile, Dennis Wilson's courtship with Emma ignites jealousy in Manson. Dennis takes Emma and Manson to meet a record producer who lives at 10050 Cielo Drive- the future home of the Tate family.

I thought this episode rang true to the time period and the Manson mythology.

[helenamonster]

Ah, so William Garretson isn't getting a pass in this adaptation. That's always been the part of the story that's given me pause...I know he said he was listening to music and couldn't hear anything, and that the detectives did tests to see if he could hear screams over the music (one of them took a note to where his volume was set when they picked him up), and I don't think there was any reason to believe he was involved, especially when the LaBiancas were murdered while he was in custody...but I did always wonder if maybe he did hear something and decided not to do anything out of, idk, self-preservation? Maybe someone who's more familiar with that part can fill things in? The actor who's playing him looks so familiar, but I can't place him. Like one of those guys that showed up on a bunch of Disney Channel shows in the mid-2000s or something.

I definitely wasn't expecting Opal to kill herself, yikes. Wonder how long Hodiak's gonna keep that from Walt. I really have trouble feeling bad for him (Walt, not Hodiak). He knew the consequences of what he was doing. I don't think Opal's suicide is his fault, at the end of the day that was her decision, but I'm sure he'll feel shitty once he does find out.

I like Undercover!Charmain. Surprised there wasn't any follow-up with Roy this episode but I'm sure that's coming.

I also liked the scene between Emma and Grace. It's weird to me how Emma will stick around Manson for at least another 16 months, she doesn't seem like the kind of person who would be as swayed by him as the others.

I also recognized the actress who played the pregnant common law wife. She was Betty's friend Francine on Mad Men, and Mike's girlfriend Precious in an episode of Friends. 

[reggiejax]

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I thought this episode rang true to the time period and the Manson mythology.

I really disagree, about the Manson mythology part anyway. The whole Emma/Dennis Wilson/Terry Melcher storyline just rang completely untrue to how Family members behaved and how Manson dealt with with his followers. To put it simply, Emma would have never put herself before Manson. She is no longer a newbie. She has been with Manson for a while and has thrown her lot in with him, and accepted everything that comes with it. That means putting Charlie and the Family above all else. And it also means she knows the reaction from Charlie if she does think of herself first. Suffice it to say, his reaction would have been a hell of a lot worse than that business with the dress, or the cold shoulder he gives her at the end of the episode. 

And if her actions in 1968 are off, they are really off in August 1969. I guess Emma is going to be a Linda Kasabian stand-in, and she is going to be reluctant and not actually kill anyone. But that rings really false because at that point she is at what I would deem the point of no return with her membership in the Family. Linda Kasabian had only been with the Family for a month, so her devotion to Manson was not full fledged, which made her reluctant to kill, and would make her cooperation with the authorities possible. The same could not be said for Atkins, Krenwinkle, Watson and Van Houten. It is possible to consider Van Houten a reluctant murderer, her actions during the murders ended up only being her stabbing an already dead Rosemary LaBianca in the thighs and buttocks. Not quite as vicious and coldblooded as the others. But Van Houten was indoctrinated enough to stay loyal throughout the trial. 

I have to admit, I am really hating Emma. They are twisting the story to give this little twit a redemption she doesn't really deserve. 

On a side note, what was with the saturation of the film during the Tate murders? It only served to make William Garretson look like he was wearing lipstick. 

Edited July 1, 2016 by reggiejax

[Fable]

Wow, the actor who plays Shafe really looks different without his scruff.  Almost every time he showed up on screen, it took a moment for it to register with me who he was.  

I'm not keen on the story of him becoming an addict, but maybe it will become more interesting down the road.  

[helenamonster]

On 7/1/2016 at 0:25 AM, reggiejax said:

On a side note, what was with the saturation of the film during the Tate murders? It only served to make William Garretson look like he was wearing lipstick. 

I think they're doing some sort of color isolating effect (in this case, red) to emphasize the blood, which is pretty effective in scenes where there is blood, but yeah, it looks weird everywhere else. Emma especially has a reddish glow to her skin due to some natural red undertones in her complexion.

[DangerousMinds]

On June 30, 2016 at 11:39 PM, helenamonster said:

Ah, so William Garretson isn't getting a pass in this adaptation. That's always been the part of the story that's given me pause...I know he said he was listening to music and couldn't hear anything, and that the detectives did tests to see if he could hear screams over the music (one of them took a note to where his volume was set when they picked him up), and I don't think there was any reason to believe he was involved, especially when the LaBiancas were murdered while he was in custody...but I did always wonder if maybe he did hear something and decided not to do anything out of, idk, self-preservation? Maybe someone who's more familiar with that part can fill things in? The actor who's playing him looks so familiar, but I can't place him. Like one of those guys that showed up on a bunch of Disney Channel shows in the mid-2000s or something.

I definitely wasn't expecting Opal to kill herself, yikes. Wonder how long Hodiak's gonna keep that from Walt. I really have trouble feeling bad for him (Walt, not Hodiak). He knew the consequences of what he was doing. I don't think Opal's suicide is his fault, at the end of the day that was her decision, but I'm sure he'll feel shitty once he does find out.

I feel very sorry for Hodiak. What on earth did he do wrong???

[shapeshifter]

33 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I feel very sorry for Hodiak. What on earth did he do wrong???

IMO, both Sam and Walt show us what it was like at that time (late 60s) to be on what history would later determine to be the right side.

Edited July 2, 2016 by shapeshifter

[helenamonster]

5 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I feel very sorry for Hodiak. What on earth did he do wrong???

I clarified that it was Walt I didn't feel sorry for, not Hodiak. I don't think he did anything wrong, and I don't think it's his fault that Opal killed herself. I don't think it's Walt's fault either, but his current situation is absolutely his fault. He knew what the cost of his "treason" was.

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

IMO, both Sam and Walt show us what it was like at that time (late 60s) to be on what history would later determine to be the right side.

Oh, and I absolutely agree with this, but I still think Walt needs to take some kind of responsibility for what he did. Last season he seemed perfectly fine with going to jail to expose what was going on in Vietnam, and I admired him for that. But he clearly didn't think about how not fun jail is. Idk, if you're gonna do something that bold, you really need to commit to it.

I don't think Hodiak is really a champion of the anti-war cause, and I wouldn't expect him to be, as a WWII vet and all, no matter what he knows about the US's tactics in Vietnam. I think his interest in freeing Walt has much more to do with his love for his son than it does for the principle that Walt is fighting for.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, helenamonster said:

Oh, and I absolutely agree with this, but I still think Walt needs to take some kind of responsibility for what he did. Last season he seemed perfectly fine with going to jail to expose what was going on in Vietnam, and I admired him for that. But he clearly didn't think about how not fun jail is. Idk, if you're gonna do something that bold, you really need to commit to it.

How old is Walt? I'm wondering if he is less than 25 or 27--the ages at which current neuroscience claims that the human male brain is able to clearly weigh consequences for actions.

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I don't think Hodiak is really a champion of the anti-war cause, and I wouldn't expect him to be, as a WWII vet and all, no matter what he knows about the US's tactics in Vietnam.

I totally agree; I should have been more clear in explaining that I see Hodiak as being on the right side with regard to race relations.
ETA: And, to some degree, gender issues.

BTW, in this episode (or was it the previous?), when Shafe's wife got mad at him for telling her to go home when she was at the Panther meeting, she saw it as a race issue: A white person telling a black person what to do. But I think it was Shafe's insensitivity to women's rights that was the real issue.

Edited July 3, 2016 by shapeshifter

[helenamonster]

Idk how old Walt is, but despite current neuroscience, the law holds you responsible at 18. And he has to have some kind of common sense. Not to mention that Hodiak's a cop and seems like the kind of dad who'd try to scare his kid straight with tales of prison horrors.

[tennisgurl]

Wow did NOT see Opal killing herself. Poor Hodiak. What a messed up situation. Not sure how I feel about Walt. I mean, I get why he felt that he needed to do what he did, but he had to have seen this coming. Not his mom killing herself, but getting sent to jail? Well, yeah. Like others have said, you do something this big, you have to commit. Now he seems all shocked that prison kind of sucks, and wants to back out now that things are getting real. And he does not even know his mother died! 

I like Charmains new undercover assignment, and I like that she is finally getting some recognition for her work. Shafe, on the other hand, is not doing too well. And I already miss his old shaggy hair and beard. He just does not look right without them. 

I am kind of weirded out by Emma and her continued acceptance of the Family. She seems pretty bitter towards them right now, but last season she seemed quite happy to follow them, and she is apparently joining the murder spree, so she sticks around. I am just trying to figure out how she gets from where she was to where she is going to apparently end up. 

[shapeshifter]

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

...Shafe, on the other hand, is not doing too well. And I already miss his old shaggy hair and beard. He just does not look right without them.... 

It's interesting that when Shafe was scruffy, he was clean (not taking drugs), but now that he's relatively clean cut, he's a junkie. It's like now he's undercover in the role of a cop.

Edited July 4, 2016 by shapeshifter

[thuganomics85]

Did not see Opal's suicide coming.  That has to hid Hodiak hard.  Especially since he refused to talk to her earlier in the episode, and faked a whole conversation in front of the IA guy instead.  I know it isn't his fault, but I have to think he'd be wondering if maybe things would have gone differently if he actually talked to her.  And I don't see how he can keep this from Walt for too long, before it just makes things even worse for them.

Clean-shaven, detective Shafe really does look like a different person.

Glad Charmain is getting another opportunity to show off her undercover skills.  Hopefully, this will lead to good things for her and not put her in harms way.  I don't think it will, since I suspect they're still saving Roy to be someone who ends up causing her major trouble later on.

Emma's foray into the music industry has already come to an end, thanks to being shaken up over Charlie giving her the stink-eye, during her audition.  Now, she doesn't have anyone, since Charlie is still pissed and Wilson has already moved on to another groupie.  Grace did always say there is a room for her still at the family place!  But judging from the flash-forwards, she's still going to be part of Charlie and the "family", by the time these murders go down.

[GodsBeloved]

On July 2, 2016 at 11:39 PM, shapeshifter said:

BTW, in this episode (or was it the previous?), when Shafe's wife got mad at him for telling her to go home when she was at the Panther meeting, she saw it as a race issue: A white person telling a black person what to do. But I think it was Shafe's insensitivity to women's rights that was the real issue.

I agree. I think Kristin made it about race because of what just happened to Dr King and she was probably pretty raw by the time she got home. Brian wasn't ordering his nigger around, he was ordering his wife around. 

I didn't get the sense that Kristin was mad when Shafe intitially told her to go home. I think she got mad when he told her to stay out of it and then told her he was taking her home to Bernadette. She was probably stewing and when she got home it all came out. 

[Emily Thrace]

5 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

I agree. I think Kristin made it about race because of what just happened to Dr King and she was probably pretty raw by the time she got home. Brian wasn't ordering his nigger around, he was ordering his wife around. 

I didn't get the sense that Kristin was mad when Shafe intitially told her to go home. I think she got mad when he told her to stay out of it and then told her he was taking her home to Bernadette. She was probably stewing and when she got home it all came out. 

Yeah its interesting because Chafe would probably like to think he is progressive about women but his reaction to Charmaine's success in that episode was telling. I feel like Charmaine and Kristin should meet and compare notes on Bryan. It would nice to have some female interactions on this show that didn't revolve around Charlie and his band of crazies. 

Also from this episode the way Bryan was talking about being "sick" when he came back from Viet Nam and Kristin reaction it seems she nursed him through withdrawal before. I wonder if she would do it again.

Also weird is that Chafe didn't have any family of his own to go home to at that point. I always assumed his family disowned him when he married Kristin now it seems more like he didn't have one to begin with.

A moment I liked in this episode was Charmaine reaction to the term "chauvinist pig". It was clearly a light bulb moment for her and now she can actually name what shes been putting up with.

Something that doesn't ring true about Charlies manipulations is how brutal it is. True abusers will switch between rage and love to destabilize their victims and keep them compliant . Charlie just keeps up a constant stream of threats. It doesn't true for the level of control he has or for his brand of sociopathy. Fear will only keep people compliant so far eventually they wise up and run. Love will keep people around through all kinds of shit. Like broken bones or dead bodies.

[izabella]

20 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Something that doesn't ring true about Charlies manipulations is how brutal it is. True abusers will switch between rage and love to destabilize their victims and keep them compliant . Charlie just keeps up a constant stream of threats. It doesn't true for the level of control he has or for his brand of sociopathy. Fear will only keep people compliant so far eventually they wise up and run. Love will keep people around through all kinds of shit. Like broken bones or dead bodies.

Yes, this.  I fail to see Charlie's magnetism or why he might inspire devotion.  I see threats, intimidation, and rage from a petulant, jealous, envious, selfish, psychopathic nut job that would seem to inspire fear and disgust after being used for sex and "given" to other people to use for sex.

It makes it really hard to believe that a non-psychopathic, non-sociopathic person like Emma would stick around, much less worship or follow the leader no matter what.  Since we saw Emma run into her mother, she even knows her mother is more than happy to have her come home.  Emma doesn't have to stay with Charlie, so why does she?  I don't see how Charlie is a draw.

[Ailianna]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 11:31 AM, izabella said:

Yes, this.  I fail to see Charlie's magnetism or why he might inspire devotion.  I see threats, intimidation, and rage from a petulant, jealous, envious, selfish, psychopathic nut job that would seem to inspire fear and disgust after being used for sex and "given" to other people to use for sex.

It makes it really hard to believe that a non-psychopathic, non-sociopathic person like Emma would stick around, much less worship or follow the leader no matter what.  Since we saw Emma run into her mother, she even knows her mother is more than happy to have her come home.  Emma doesn't have to stay with Charlie, so why does she?  I don't see how Charlie is a draw.

In other words, you see the abuser for what he is.  I've seen so many women and girls in relationships with guys who are just like what you describe, selfish, childish, petulant, insecure, and so forth.  But it's easy to see the flaws from the outside.  I know your complaint is that you should be seeing more of the inside view--the reasons why Emma (and the others) are willing to overlook and not even see the flaws.  I think in the first season they did better with that, showing the flattery, the way he told them they were the greatest and most special and most beautiful, the way he told them they had finally found their real family.  I think they've left that part of it behind, and it's a shame.  His quick seduction of Patty was similar, but a little too quick and easy.  But honestly, it's really only people who feel unloved and unwanted to fall for this--sadly it appears that there are  a lot of people out there feeling unloved and unwanted.

[vavera4ka]

What's your brother's name?

Nicholas.

 

I enjoyed that little nod to Originals :)