Season 12 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

[Willowy]

I'm in agreement with you, I want more Hotch scenes, but I do want them to kill him off. 

I can't imagine ever looking at Hotch the same way (if he were to return to CM on a permanent basis), going forward, directly due to Thomas's actions. But I still want Hotch to have a noble send-off for all he's meant to me as a fan over the years. I can't help thinking that a heroic death would be A-MA-ZING drama, and could be a huge episode for the series. 

I wonder how the negotiations would pan out (to get him back on for his exit episodes). Would love to be a mouse in the corner in THAT room. 

[secnarf]

24 minutes ago, zannej said:

Yeah. I do really wish they could film additional scenes with Thomas, just so we could get proper closure. It's a bit like when an actor dies suddenly and they have to write them out (like Frost on Rissoli and Isles). But it is more awkward (not sure of the right word here) because TG is still alive and *could* do it if allowed, but I don't think they would let him if he offered.

I agree - but I also think the audience is more forgiving if the actor dies suddenly than in a scenario like this. Also, if an actor dies suddenly, the obvious thing to do is make the character die suddenly. The CM writers *could* have Hotch die suddenly, like John Ritter's character on 8 Simple Rules, but people would be pretty upset. That's not to say the writers won't do this, or even that the audience being upset is a reason for them to avoid this storyline, but it's not something that will be done lightly.

[Droogie]

If Hotch dies, I want the remaining characters to be able to grieve appropriately and visibly.  But I hate the idea, frankly.  That leaves Jack an orphan -- both parents lost to murder.  How horrible!  How on earth can Jack go on to have a normal life?  He was essentially present when his mother was murdered...  To have his father murdered as well simply must play a number on his psyche.  And if Hotch dies, do we get a funeral?  Fond memories?  The promise of follow-up with Jack?  It's cheating if none of that happens.  At the risk of repeating myself, I hate the idea.

For those of us who do not blame Gibson for the disappearance of Hotch, it all just feels like a smack in the face.  And there's just no good way to resolve it.

[zannej]

I feel like them killing Hotch off might seem spiteful. Plus I admit I do like happy endings and the team has already had so much loss and tragedy. Sometimes deciding to put family before work can be noble. A person doesn't have to die to make a heroic sacrifice. Maybe Hotch can be injured in such a way that he can't be on the team anymore because of something he did (off screen) to save someone and he spends time with Jack. Even though I never warmed to the character of Jack, I do think that losing both of his parents would really suck.

[Willowy]

I hope they do what's best for the show. I'm not sure that the constant spectre of a possible Hotch return wouldn't be more trouble than it's worth. Maybe a clean break would be best.

Who knows what they'll decide to do. They're probably still hashing it out day by day, lol.

[Droogie]

I would like to stay mum and not respond but I cannot.  What would be best for the show would be that Gibson was never fired and canon could continue to play out.  Folks can argue that it's TG's fault and it wasn't going to happen this way, but there are plenty of other folks who would disagree.  What actually happened was the opposite, so I don't envy the writers trying to come up with an appropriate, believable exit for the beloved character.  As a fan, all I know for certain is that it completely sucks.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Droogie

[Danielg342]

I'd prefer retirement to death, considering that Thomas Gibson and CM could still make amends down the road. I'd also buy that Hotch would consider retirement this time- considering all he's been through, there has to be a point where he would say "enough's enough."

[JMO]

If there was a possibility that we could see Hotch again, and give him a proper, non-fatal, sendoff before the series ended, that would be my vote.  But that would require some cooler heads than seem to be out there at the moment.  

So, if we are truly never to see Hotch again, then I would like him to go out as a hero, and not simply fade into the sunset.  I feel as you do, Droogie, that I'd like the character to receive proper homage, and I'd like the members of the team to be allowed a proper time to grieve. I'd like there to be fallout from that grief and loss, as well.  

But this season is already plotted out, and who knows if we'll get another.  It's not too late to change direction for upcoming episodes, but only if they are motivated to do so.  My main reservation, however, is leaving such an important task in the hands of the current staff.

[SSAHotchner]

7 hours ago, smoker said:

I know, there are comments saying it seems interesting, but with him behind the camara :S

Yeah. Joe seems like a great guy, but as a director....NO.

[zannej]

28 minutes ago, JMO said:

Personally, I'm holding out for that microchip brain implant that makes thoughts, and intentions, audible.

That would be an absolute nightmare! LOL.

I wonder if they are going to bump Prentiss down to no longer be Unit Chief and have the new guy take over or if he will be another subordinate or just someone on the team. I'm sort of hoping he's not even part of the team and that he might be more like Strauss so he won't be around as often. No offense to the actor, but the show already has so many characters they can't write for all of them decently.

[normasm]

Zannej, I'm pretty sure the new guy is going to be on the team and Prentiss is going to be unit chief. Why they need someone else is beyond me. It was so crowded in the latest episode, everybody got to team up with everybody else. I think we saw almost every possible combo!!

[JMO]

I truly do not understand why they are adding someone else to this cast. I get replacing the Morgan role (because I don't want to listen to all of the complaints about JJ kicking down doors!) but I don't at all understand having both Tara Lewis and Emily Prentiss on the team, let alone bringing in a new new guy.  

The only thing that makes sense in my head is if TPTB think the concept still has life in it, and are (not so) slowly replacing the original cast.  But the quality of the cases over the past few years makes me beg to differ with that assumption.

[secnarf]

1 minute ago, JMO said:

I truly do not understand why they are adding someone else to this cast. I get replacing the Morgan role (because I don't want to listen to all of the complaints about JJ kicking down doors!) but I don't at all understand having both Tara Lewis and Emily Prentiss on the team, let alone bringing in a new new guy.  

The only thing that makes sense in my head is if TPTB think the concept still has life in it, and are (not so) slowly replacing the original cast.  But the quality of the cases over the past few years makes me beg to differ with that assumption.

I can see having both Tara and Emily - assuming Emily ends up as unit chief, they would have different roles. I wish they hadn't replaced Morgan and had gone a more cerebral route - who says this team needs to be kicking down doors? But if they're going to have those scenes, then I accept your argument that they needed to replace Morgan with a similar character. This new new guy though? Makes no sense at all, unless somebody else is leaving.

They have to realize the ratings are declining and this show doesn't have that many more years. CSI lasted what, 15 years? And it was far more groundbreaking than CM, with a broader concept that allowed them to mine more stories out of it (they weren't just limited to serial killers, which make up the bulk of CM's stories). Turning over the cast a la CSI is not going to save this show.

[normasm]

11 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I can see having both Tara and Emily - assuming Emily ends up as unit chief, they would have different roles. I wish they hadn't replaced Morgan and had gone a more cerebral route - who says this team needs to be kicking down doors? But if they're going to have those scenes, then I accept your argument that they needed to replace Morgan with a similar character. This new new guy though? Makes no sense at all, unless somebody else is leaving.

Well, the keeping of the door-kicker role makes Spencer stand out as the cerebral dude, or should, anyway. But, yeah, just the crowding of the cast must mean someone, either Joe or Matthew, might be leaving. 

[JMO]

2 minutes ago, normasm said:

Well, the keeping of the door-kicker role makes Spencer stand out as the cerebral dude, or should, anyway. But, yeah, just the crowding of the cast must mean someone, either Joe or Matthew, might be leaving. 

They would be my top suspects.  What I'm less clear on is whether they indicated they wanted out, or TPTB think it's time for them to move on.  I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Matthew in something else, so long as there were no vampires, zombies or bathroom humor involved.  I know, I'm picky.

[normasm]

My question is, if Reid leaves, how will they replace him? He is the unique character on the show, and really couldn't be replaced like Morgan can for muscle, and Penelope could with a "Monty." Maybe they'll bust Spencer Reid out to his own show, and Derek Morgan will be his sidekick!

Edited October 29, 2016 by normasm

[zannej]

I like cheese. Particularly Gouda. Gouda is good. Maybe someday we will see an unsub obsessed with cheese who kills people for not offering the right sort of cheese from the craft cart at work.

[Danielg342]

Can we not discuss the merits of Thomas Gibson's firing? Kind of getting tired of the topic and, at the very least, it's not relevant to this thread- it should go in Hotch's thread.

1 hour ago, normasm said:

My question is, if Reid leaves, how will they replace him? He is the unique character on the show, and really couldn't be replaced like Morgan can for muscle, and Penelope could with a "Monty." Maybe they'll bust Spencer Reid out to his own show, and Derek Morgan will be his sidekick!

I'd say it should be done via the "buddy cop" comedy route, but we've already got Lethal Weapon. Mind you, I think Morgan/Reid would be infinitely more funny.

[normasm]

I wouldn't want it to be entirely for yucks, personally. An extension of their relationship on CM, with Morgan as he is now, a father and husband. Mild "smart" humor, perhaps. Which leaves out the CM writers almost entirely...

[ReidFan]

3 hours ago, normasm said:

Well, the keeping of the door-kicker role makes Spencer stand out as the cerebral dude, or should, anyway. But, yeah, just the crowding of the cast must mean someone, either Joe or Matthew, might be leaving. 

"No Reid? I cede!"

[Danielg342]

25 minutes ago, normasm said:

I wouldn't want it to be entirely for yucks, personally. An extension of their relationship on CM, with Morgan as he is now, a father and husband. Mild "smart" humor, perhaps. Which leaves out the CM writers almost entirely...

More along the lines, I'd say, of Elementary in its first one and a half seasons...quirky, unorthodox Reid and the more "conventional" Morgan.

[smoker]

2 hours ago, normasm said:

My question is, if Reid leaves, how will they replace him? He is the unique character on the show, and really couldn't be replaced like Morgan can for muscle, and Penelope could with a "Monty." Maybe they'll bust Spencer Reid out to his own show, and Derek Morgan will be his sidekick!

I'm sorry for you normasm, and for Reid's fans, but if MGG leaves the show, his character will be replaced by other character poorly written and introduced, as always since Rossi.

4 hours ago, normasm said:

Zannej, I'm pretty sure the new guy is going to be on the team and Prentiss is going to be unit chief. Why they need someone else is beyond me. It was so crowded in the latest episode, everybody got to team up with everybody else. I think we saw almost every possible combo!!

Last week, I wrote a comment about this, but I coundn't submit it. I didn't rewrite it then, but I am going to take advantage of your post. Absolutely agree with the opinion about how crowded is the starring cast in this show.

I wouldn't have brought AT again this season, I have nothing against AT's performance or even Tara, but I think she isn't adding anything new or fresh. One of the things I loved about season 11 premiere was that the team was reduced to 4 people and it was great. 

In my head things would have been better this way: no Tara. They could have brought Prentiss back to replace Morgan, instead of AR. Then this other new guy, Damon G. could have covered the other spot. This man seems really interesting, both physically and as an actor (a shame bad writing's going to crush the character). I think he is a better cast than AR who is only replacing the muscular pretty ethnic presence. And after Hotch is gone as unit chief  :'( , Prentiss would have been there to take over the team. More or less the same but nicely organized hehe
 

Edited October 29, 2016 by smoker

[normasm]

Well, not even Elementary. That's built on sexual tension, which is why Watson is female. I dunno, I loved the humor in the Cumberbatch Sherlock, but maybe lightning can't strike twice

[smoker]

14 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

"No Reid? I cede!"

I know how that feels Reidfan 

[Danielg342]

2 minutes ago, normasm said:

Well, not even Elementary. That's built on sexual tension, which is why Watson is female. I dunno, I loved the humor in the Cumberbatch Sherlock, but maybe lightning can't strike twice

Never saw the Cumberbatch Sherlock...I probably should one of these days. Having said that, I didn't get a whole lot of sexual tension out of Elementary...if Watson was male or if Sherlock was female (which has been done before), it wouldn't have changed the dynamic very much. I know there were a few Elementary fans who shipped Sherlock and Watson, but I never saw the two of them as anything more than really good friends. Their relationship mirrors more the relationship that I believe Reid and Morgan would have- Reid would have his quirks and act and see things in "alternative" ways, while Morgan would live and work in more of a "conventional" mindset, all while admiring Reid and being the first to defend him when someone scoffs at him. I know that's not how CM always did it, but CM screwed up that relationship after S3.

11 minutes ago, smoker said:

In my head things would have been better this way: they could have brought Prentiss back to replace Morgan, instead of AR. Then this other new guy, Damon G. could have covered the other spot. This man seems really interesting, both physically and as an actor (a shame bad writing's going to crush the character). I think he is a better cast than AR who is only replacing the muscular pretty ethnic presence. And after Hotch is gone as unit chief, Prentiss would have been there to take over the team. More or less the same but nicely organized hehe
 

Personally I'd rather have Prentiss lead the BAU in the field and whomever Damon Gupton is being the one who presents the cases and deals with the bureaucracy that should happen "behind the scenes". I know Hotch did it all himself, but I'm not sure it's all that reasonable- there are things like coordinating with different departments and government officials that one would think the BAU Chief would have no time to reasonably deal with, meaning someone like Gupton would be more suited for it.

I know we've got Mateo Cruz, but we haven't seen him since a throwaway scene in "Beyond Borders" (the episode). Given the timeframe, he could easily be replaced.

[smoker]

24 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Personally I'd rather have Prentiss lead the BAU in the field and whomever Damon Gupton is being the one who presents the cases and deals with the bureaucracy that should happen "behind the scenes". I know Hotch did it all himself, but I'm not sure it's all that reasonable- there are things like coordinating with different departments and government officials that one would think the BAU Chief would have no time to reasonably deal with, meaning someone like Gupton would be more suited for it.

I know we've got Mateo Cruz, but we haven't seen him since a throwaway scene in "Beyond Borders" (the episode). Given the timeframe, he could easily be replaced.

I think is a good idea! Actually, it would have been great if Hotch had done that himself last season, that would make things up for TG absences in some of the episodes, instead of just vanishing.

Edited October 30, 2016 by smoker

[thewhiteowl]

If your post is gone and you did not get a warning, count your blessings. Being off topic and just generally shitty to others is not going to fly.

The fact is that TG is gone speculate about how they may handle it but the merits of his firing are, for most of us just second hand opinion. He is gone, there were others there so I can only assume he did something and got fired.  They didn't get this out of thin air. 

Let. It. Go. 

Or discuss in the proper thread. Thanks. 

[SSAHotchner]

I wondered if them bringing in several new cast members this season is, as someone else had speculated, to have them there ready and in place when others leave, and also by having more than one newbie at a time, it could kind of spread out the hate that some viewers seem to spew every time there is a new character. I always liked to give a newcomer the benefit of the doubt, but some folks seem determined to rip them to shreds. 

[secnarf]

15 minutes ago, SSAHotchner said:

I wondered if them bringing in several new cast members this season is, as someone else had speculated, to have them there ready and in place when others leave, and also by having more than one newbie at a time, it could kind of spread out the hate that some viewers seem to spew every time there is a new character. I always liked to give a newcomer the benefit of the doubt, but some folks seem determined to rip them to shreds. 

Sometimes the issue is who the newbie(s) replace. I think female characters generally have a harder time with this due to the revolving-door female profiler character, stemming from the disaster that was the initial firing of PB and AJC. I think this is where most of the vitriol comes from.

I think part of it is also who the characters are and how they are written - they can be bland (obviously a matter of opinion), replace the skill set of another team member who magically no longer has those skills, they can take up too much screen time, or they can be extremely proficient with no learning curve while other characters are dumbed down to make them look good. None of these scenarios will endear the new character to the audience.

I will also add that this season - moreso than any others - I am incredibly wary of new characters, since most of the shows I watch have had significant cast turnover, and this usually involves adding more characters than are leaving. I think CM is the only show that hasn't been ruined by the newbies, and I am incredibly wary of adding an additional person into the mix that might mess that up. So, I will be viewing this new character with a heavy dose of skepticism, and it's not entirely just because of CM itself!

[SSAHotchner]

On 10/29/2016 at 11:30 PM, secnarf said:

Sometimes the issue is who the newbie(s) replace. I think female characters generally have a harder time with this due to the revolving-door female profiler character, stemming from the disaster that was the initial firing of PB and AJC. I think this is where most of the vitriol comes from.

I think part of it is also who the characters are and how they are written - they can be bland (obviously a matter of opinion), replace the skill set of another team member who magically no longer has those skills, they can take up too much screen time, or they can be extremely proficient with no learning curve while other characters are dumbed down to make them look good. None of these scenarios will endear the new character to the audience.

I will also add that this season - moreso than any others - I am incredibly wary of new characters, since most of the shows I watch have had significant cast turnover, and this usually involves adding more characters than are leaving. I think CM is the only show that hasn't been ruined by the newbies, and I am incredibly wary of adding an additional person into the mix that might mess that up. So, I will be viewing this new character with a heavy dose of skepticism, and it's not entirely just because of CM itself!

Oh, I hear you. Believe me, I almost had a stroke yelling at the TV the whole time Seaver was on the screen in season 6. But the other females weren't bad. I actually liked Blake and was sad to see her go. I could not believe the vitriol spewed over JLH. She didn't deserve that. I didn't mind her character, just the focus they put on the niece who I found so annoying. Lewis is okay, but I just didn't warm up to her and I blame the writers and the person who came up with the awful wig she sported for the first half of last season for a lot of my ambivalence toward the character. But really, I just don't see the need to keep bringing characters in unless other regulars are going to be leaving. Frankly, I don't see the show lasting after this season, but then I'm always astounded by the folks on FB saying, "it was awesome!" when I think the episode was crap. 

[autumnmountains]

So y'all may know this, but Criminal Minds won't be airing a new episode tonight due to the game.

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/11/cbs-pulls-primetime-shows-for-2nd.html#disqus_thread

[Willowy]

At least the numbers will be better next week, when 30 million eyeballs aren't watching baseball. 

[smoker]

photos for MGG's episode

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/10/criminal-minds-episode-1206-elliotts.html

 

 

 

1 hour ago, autumnmountains said:

So y'all may know this, but Criminal Minds won't be airing a new episode tonight due to the game.

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/11/cbs-pulls-primetime-shows-for-2nd.html#disqus_thread

poor Code black, it's a dead horse :S

Edited November 2, 2016 by smoker

[CrimeFan12]

42 minutes ago, Franky said:

At least the numbers will be better next week, when 30 million eyeballs aren't watching baseball. 

Agreed.  They would have been horrible this week if they left it on.  Go Tribe!!!

[Bookish Jen]

37 minutes ago, smoker said:

photos for MGG's episode

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/10/criminal-minds-episode-1206-elliotts.html

 

 

 

poor Code black, it's a dead horse :S

Thanks for showing this. I always enjoy watching eps directed by Matthew. He does a great job, and has a distinctive eye.

[ReidFan]

21 hours ago, SSAHotchner said:

Oh, I hear you. Believe me, I almost had a stroke yelling at the TV the whole time Seaver was on the screen in season 6. 

lol.

I came into CM fandom late (it was already season 10 new by the time I got hooked, but watching the older ones in order was a treat).....and I absolutely despised Seaver from the get go. Nothing against the actress, per se, though she's pretty average at best, but I could not stand the character.

I'm just picturing you yelling at the TV and couldn't help thinking we'd have been doing that in stereo if I'd been around the fandom back then.

1 hour ago, smoker said:

photos for MGG's episode

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/10/criminal-minds-episode-1206-elliotts.html

 

ooh! thanks for this! And even better, judging by the photos, Reid is actually substantially IN the episode too, as well as directing it. Happy day!

[Bookish Jen]

18 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

lol.

I came into CM fandom late (it was already season 10 new by the time I got hooked, but watching the older ones in order was a treat).....and I absolutely despised Seaver from the get go. Nothing against the actress, per se, though she's pretty average at best, but I could not stand the character.

I'm just picturing you yelling at the TV and couldn't help thinking we'd have been doing that in stereo if I'd been around the fandom back then.

ooh! thanks for this! And even better, judging by the photos, Reid is actually substantially IN the episode too, as well as directing it. Happy day!

It's a double treat of delightful deliciousness!

[Willowy]

AW YEAH.

[Bookish Jen]

10 hours ago, Franky said:

AW YEAH.

[JMO]

Just a heads-up, for those who record.  My DVR wasn't planning on recording this coming week's (11/9) episode, because it thinks it recorded it last week.  Both last week's and this week's episodes were in there as 'Anti-Terrorism Squad' (sort of----came up as Elliot's Pond in the final step, but still wasn't marked for recording).  I had to set it manually.  I plan to check again later in the week and hope things have been sorted out, because otherwise I think this problem will perpetuate itself.

[ReidFan]

just checked widda PVR. I guess my electronics are more intelligent than I gave them credit for. It actually does plan to record tonight's episode. It does give the general synopsis for "Anti Terror Squad" and it calls it 'new' so it does realise (praise be) that tonight's episode was postponed from an earlier date, and is in fact, a new one. Yippee...... Hope the er, acquisition site, is as cognisant tonight :) 

[normasm]

Episode 12.13 is entitled, "Spencer." According to Harry, there's no need for worry, whatever that means

[MMC]

Harry Bring has just confirmed via tweeter that 12x13 will indeed be entitled Spencer. Of course we all know what usually happens to a character when they have an episode named after them. However Harry says there is no need for concern.

For the time being I am going to choose to take Harry at his word, and simply bask in the joy and excitement I am feeling over the fact my favorite and likely the favorite of a huge chunk of the fandom is finally getting an episode named after him.

ETA: normasm it looks like we were both posting at the same time. And about the same thing.

Edited November 9, 2016 by MMC

[senin]

I'd like to be optimistic but I'm getting a really weird feeling... and it will be a few weeks until we get there... 

[Bookish Jen]

9 minutes ago, normasm said:

Episode 12.13 is entitled, "Spencer." According to Harry, there's no need for worry, whatever that means

For now I will be cautiously optimistic.

[ReidFan]

28 minutes ago, normasm said:

Episode 12.13 is entitled, "Spencer." According to Harry, there's no need for worry, whatever that means

I hope you're right. Maybe, this take on 'Spencer' (which will have something to do with mom) will include one of (or both) two things I'd really like to see: 1. closure/acceptance/a cure/fix/whatever for mom's dementia--and the assurance that Spence won't develop it and 2. marriage/family or at least a pointing to that happening post-series/offscreen/later on if the show continues past season 12 by giving him a serious gf who is not 1. crazy 2. imaginary 3. dead by the end of the episode/arc.

[Bookish Jen]

4 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I hope you're right. Maybe, this take on 'Spencer' (which will have something to do with mom) will include one of (or both) two things I'd really like to see: 1. closure/acceptance/a cure/fix/whatever for mom's dementia--and the assurance that Spence won't develop it and 2. marriage/family or at least a pointing to that happening post-series/offscreen/later on if the show continues past season 12 by giving him a serious gf who is not 1. crazy 2. imaginary 3. dead by the end of the episode/arc.

Yes, I do hope it points towards some good things for Spencer, coming to terms with Diana's dementia and a sliver of hope that he won't develop it; and the promise of lasting love that ends well, but don't make it too soapy or saccharine Rossi's mushball Grandpa mess.

[normasm]

Mushball Grandpa Mess, the latest track from Spencer!HoldMyEarrings!!

[ReidFan]

sounds like this is gonna be a multi-disk collection normasm :)

[normasm]

When times are tough, we must turn to art...