S11.E22: The Storm

[thewhiteowl]

Quote

The BAU is shocked when Hotch is apprehended by a SWAT team and suspected of conspiracy, and as the team scrambles to prove his innocence, they suspect a larger plot is on the horizon.

[secnarf]

Well, I was fully prepared to hate this episode, but it wasn't that bad. We learned about the unsub/plot along with the team, it had a "finale" feel from pulling together bits from previous storylines, and I do think there was enough of everybody to call it a "team-based episode". There also wasn't a huge amount of "insane resistance from evil law enforcement that is obviously too dumb to comprehend that our hero(es) is/are being framed". The plot was a bit convoluted, but I'm willing to give it a pass.

[Sparger Springs]

Another bad guy that couldn't leave well enough alone. I have to involve the FBI and the DOJ in my nefarious plans.  If I hadn't I would have gotten away with it. 

[MMC]

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand I really liked it. Not only was I thrilled with Reid's screen time,but I was ecstatic that he actually got to contribute something of significance.And I am betting it had something to do with the fact that Breen co wrote the season finale. But still to me there was something lacking and I can't quite put my finger on it. It just didn't have me on the edge of my sit the way "Entropy" did.

I don't know perhaps my blatant irritation over the whole Rossi and his ex story line has colored my perception somewhat. I am sorry, but that scene where Hayden and Rossi  open the door and greeted Tara and Reid,where upon Hayden and Tari immediately begin speaking French to each other, causing Hayden to declare Tara as her favorite so far, seriously rubbed me the wrong way. Did Hayden even acknowledge Reid's presence, because I can't remember if she did or not. Still despite my complaints it is definitely one I'd watch again.

Edited May 5, 2016 by MMC

[SSAHotchner]

I won't say it was a great episode, but it was pretty good. What bums me most, is that, for me, it was the best season finale we've had since season 4, but we don't know if we're going to get another season and capture those missing murderers. Seriously, I do not miss Morgan at all. I'm afraid that the ladies got a lot to do tonight and it might irritate some folks here, but seeing that Morgan is gone and Hotch was not able to work the case, they had to give the lines to someone. I find it odd that they don't give Rossi more responsibility and insight, considering he was one of the original members of the BAU. Except for his hair, Reid was adorable. I thought Bodhi Elfman lost some of the creepiness he had in Mr. Scratch. His voice just wasn't menacing enough. I kept thinking of those lame characters he played on a couple episodes of Dharma and Greg. I will have to watch again, but did I miss something? When Hotch showed up free at the prison, how did he get them to believe he was innocent? I know I'm usually distracted because I chat during the episodes, but I don't remember a scene where he convinced the authorities of his innocence. 

2 minutes ago, Sparger Springs said:

Another bad guy that couldn't leave well enough alone. I have to involve the FBI and the DOJ in my nefarious plans.  If I hadn't I would have gotten away with it. 

Haha, your post reminded me that my husband has been watching the old Batman show from when we were kids the 60s. He was trying to tell me something about one of the episodes and actually used the phrase "they committed their nefarious deeds." I said, "Honey, please don't start speaking like the show." 

[SSAHotchner]

5 minutes ago, MMC said:

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand I really liked it. Not only was I thrilled with Reid's screen time,but I was ecstatic that he actually got to contribute something of significance.And I am betting it had something to do with the fact that Breen co wrote the season finale. But still to me there was something lacking and I can't quite put my finger on it. It just didn't have me on the edge of my sit the way "Entropy" did.

I don't know perhaps my blatant irritation over the whole Rossi and his ex story line has colored my perception somewhat. I am sorry, but that scene where Hayden and Rossi  open the door and greeted Tara and Reid,where upon Hayden and Tari immediately begin speaking French to each other, causing Hayden to declare Tara as her favorite so far, seriously rubbed me the wrong way. Did Hayden even acknowledge Reid's presence, because I can't remember if she did or not. Still despite my complaints it is definitely one I'd watch again.

Sorry, but I still don't buy the whole Rossi story line. It doesn't add up with his previously established time line and the woman playing the ex just rubs me the wrong way. I don't mind Joy, but Hayden feels pretentious and distant to me. I really do not like how they've altered Rossi's character. I know they've pretty much changed everyone, not normal character growth, but actual complete change of personalities and abilities. But Rossi, the once snarky and edgy original member of the BAU, has become almost bumbling now.

Reid was adorable and I loved the scene with him and the kids at the end. I also loved the interaction between Reid and the computer guy. He can be so gentle with disturbed or fragile unsubs or victims.

[ReidFan]

I think the way the Rossi storyline is going is because of Joe Mantegna, pretty sure he's had some input there.

 I can't stand Hayden, and the actress, well, meh. I liked snarky season 3-4 Rossi better too. Don't like Cuddly Grampa Rossi as much.

Reid was fabulous in this one, both as the profiler (as SSAHotch said above) with Asher the autistic guy and his conference room thinking; and with the kids and the magic at the end. and was there significance to the card he pulled from Garcia's hair? :)

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...I am of two minds about this finale.

The good:

1. I considered this finale to be the best since season five (thus proving once and for all that Erica should never write a season finale alone). However, considering the finales since season five have all sucked to varying degrees, that is sort of damning with faint praise.

2. I did like the callbacks to previous seasons, such as Elle's and Rossi's shootings. It was something that actually came up in fan discussions after Nelson's Sparrow and how Hotch basically looked the other way on Rossi. At least we had people assuming Hotch had changed since Foyet, and certainly we have seen the team go rogue more often since then (though in reality, that is because the new writers seem to thinking the BAU going rogue is a cool thing to do and write it frequently).

3. Good Hotch in his scenes and dealing with the DOJ prick and completely dismantling their case. We never saw just how Hotch's driver's license was used in the chemical purchase. 

4. Good Reid when he was interacting with Antonia's son. He recognized he had autism and was able to react accordingly and not escalate the situation and actually get useful information from him. 

5. Good teamwork profiling at the beginning before it descended into an action movie shootout in the prison. 

The bad:

1. I never really got a good handle on how all of this was supposed to fit together. I mean, I understand the basics. Antonia Slade's son was the one who did the swatting on Hotch and Eric Rawdon was the planner and Peter Lewis got involved providing doubt about Hotch. But just how the hell did they all connect? Why did Eric seek out Antonia's son? How did Peter get connected to all of these people? Maybe I am missing something, but while this story sounds good in its fragments, I fear that they didn't stitch it together plausibly, or at least explain it properly. 

2. The endless family scenes. I hate it when the show shoves schmaltz down our throats, and this one was no different. 

3. I know some will disagree with me, but Reid's behavior when interacting with the kids seemed more like Matthew's and not Reid's. 

4. Too much gunfire and action. 

5. Minor quibble: Reid said his mom had no problem with flying, while we know for a fact that flying is one of her biggest fears, and I can't see her having somehow overcome that fear while she was at Bennington. But we are supposed to believe she would be all right flying to Paris?

6. And if season 12 is about them methodically tracking down escaped serial killers...all I can say is that those killers better be back in action actually killing and this doesn't just turn into a continuous manhunt. That could easily get boring. 

7. Also minor point: in reality Rossi wouldn't have to choose between the job and Hayden, because he would have been forcibly retired years ago. 

8. Also something weird: are Hotch and JJ carpooling to work?

Edited May 5, 2016 by ForeverAlone

[ForeverAlone]

Here is a post mortem interview with Erica.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-finale-postmortem-season-12-plans/

[SSAHotchner]

Well, she certainly doesn't seem unsure about the possibility of a 12th season. 

[Old Dog]

I enjoyed it apart from the awful scenes with Rossi and his ex . I hope they just drop all that as it was just really really bad soap opera fodder. For me, I wish they had amped up Hotch being under arrest because apart from the actual arrest he got out easily in time to save the day. They could also have made more of how the plot was put together because that wasn't too clear. It was exciting and dramatic though and I will watch it again - I just wish they would concentrate on the profiling and the criminals and leave out the sappy stuff that Erica Messer can't help ladling on so thickly.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Old Dog
bad choice of phrasing

[zannej]

I'm having issues getting this site to work right now. Not sure WTF is wrong.

Anyway, I slept through the first half and then woke up and watched the rest, then I went online to watch the first half and didn't bother to watch the second half again.

The writers clearly do NOT understand police protocol at all. .

1. If they were watching Hotch and decided to go apprehend him, they most certainly would NOT have done it after seeing JJ and her kid enter the building.

2. If they really thought Hotch was dangerous and he had pointed his weapon at them, they would have just blown him away.

3. Hotch would have known #2 and would have put his gun down the moment he saw the SWAT team.

4. Hotch used to be a prosecutor and there is no way in hell that he would have admitted to ANY wrongdoing. Furthermore, Hotch would not have been the one to determine whether or not Elle or Rossi were justified in their shoots-- that would have been on OIG. Elle was cleared by OIG for her shooting of Lee and Rossi must have been cleared as well-- so there is no way those incidences would have been brought up. It wasn't up to Hotch whether or not Rossi's shoot was "good" or not. And Hotch certainly never would have admitted to allowing Rossi to get away with murder. He wouldn't have said that it was a different situation. He would have said that according to Rossi, the unsub pointed a gun at him and he defended himself. Or he would have said that it was OIG who cleared Rossi.

5. I don't buy that Hotch left out being drugged. That just doesn't make sense. He would have been taken to the hospital and checked out. It would have been on the record. He's not stupid.

There is something I don't like about Hayden and her getting upset with Rossi leaving because there was an emergency just made me dislike her more. I can't bring myself to really care about that relationship drama.

The plot was far too convoluted and there was no explanation of how the inmates managed to take over the control rooms and it was just too far-fetched.

I was ok with Jack Hotchner the last time he was on, but I couldn't stand him in this one. Not sure what it was about him, but I just wanted him to get off my screen asap. Maybe it's the writing, I don't know.

I felt that Reid was out-of-character at the big family party. The card trick was fine, but the falling on the ground was too much of a Matthew thing to me.

Did the writers forget that Reid's mother has early onset dementia? And I know they must have forgotten that she said flying was one of her greatest fears (unless the plane trips she took in Fisher King cured that).

I didn't like this one as much as some people did. Maybe I should watch it when I'm in a better mood, but to be perfectly honest, I'm finding it hard to stay interested. I give this one a C.

[smoker]

6 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

 

3. I know some will disagree with me, but Reid's behavior when interacting with the kids seemed more like Matthew's and not Reid's. 

 

God bless you! just my point!

[normasm]

1 hour ago, zannej said:

Did the writers forget that Reid's mother has early onset dementia? And I know they must have forgotten that she said flying was one of her greatest fears (unless the plane trips she took in Fisher King cured that).

I'm beginning to think that Breen deliberately goes against canon with Reid just to hear the fans howl. Either that or he has early onset dementia himself. OK, that was tacky (don't lecture me - I know dementia is no joke), but it does seem weird that it's always Breen writing when these obvious errors come plopping out.

 

And zannej, I agree with your other points about police procedure. And the sappy Rossi storyline. Ergh.

Edited May 5, 2016 by normasm

[JMO]

As per my usual, I fell asleep early on, and then awakened to a helicopter, running around in the dark, and an explosion.  To my mind, nothing good has ever come of a CM episode featuring helicopters, running around in the dark, or explosions.  They mostly just substitute for plot.  So I went back to sleep.  When finally watched through, the episode generated only random thoughts:

The conspiracy plot, or, rather, the DOJ’s reaction to it, was too hokey to create much tension.

I tried to buy into the plot anyway, and found myself very sorely missing the element of righteous anger that I think would have been Morgan’s response to the arrest of his unit chief. That part of the team’s personality has disappeared with him, sadly.  The rest are far too controlled emotionally.  We get an occasional spark from Rossi or Reid, but it’s not enough.  We need someone on screen who reacts the way we do, serving as the audience’s representative to whatever is happening.  I hadn’t realized it until he was gone, but I think Morgan did that.

I actually think Cade did very well expressing Jack’s trauma at being invaded by a group of armed agents, and seeing his father arrested, and again at the end, when Jack went somewhere inside himself, keeping his father at arm’s length.

Henry was cute, but poor Michael was mostly edited out.  Maybe he was teething.

I think it would have been absolutely fascinating to have Tara and at least one other BAU member stuck in a prison ward with some of the serial killers they’ve studied and/or put away, and have to outwit them in order to escape.  Could easily have filled a whole episode.  But to have Tara realize where she was, and the prison doors open, only to be rescued 15 seconds later----just a waste of opportunity.

So was the prisoners’ exchange of clothing with the wardens, and then the SWAT team---Interesting, but resolved in under a minute.  I would have liked to see an episode where the BAU has to figure out who is who through their wits alone.

Speaking of the prison scenes---- did anyone else find it odd that our Kevlar-vested team wasn’t offered helmets and/or other body armor, when they accompanied SWAT?  Especially when a team member (Hotch) put himself at the front of the group?  On the other hand, they really should all just have stayed outside with Rossi.  It’s not like they were profiling in there. 

Speaking of dangerous things----our team watched helicopter full of fuel and explosives fall from the sky, on fire………and then they all walked toward it.  BOOM!

Not interested in the Rossi/Hayden thing at all.  Way too manufactured.

I liked JJ’s barely controlled anger with Antonia, but would have bought it more if she’d (JJ) shown some of it closer to the time of Hotch’s arrest.

Yes, they screwed up on Diana’s fear of flying.  Which was sadly amusing, since it seemed obvious they were trying to delve into the show’s history, and prove they were capable of continuity.

Reid was great with Asher.  From his description of autism/Asperger’s, and his demeanor when providing it, I sensed a distancing of the notion that Reid has either. Put another way, I think MGG would have played Reid differently in that scene, if he thought Reid was describing traits that he himself possessed.  Since that aligns with my impression of Reid (having neither autism nor Asperger’s), I say, YAY!, and let’s put that notion to bed, permanently.

There have been better season finales, and there have been worse.  Since it might also have served as a series finale, I guess the final implication that the work will continue is a good one.  I just wish the writers didn’t equate ‘finale’ with ‘blow the budget on helicopters and explosions’.  I would so much prefer an intriguing battle of wits.

[normasm]

20 minutes ago, JMO said:

As per my usual, I fell asleep early on, and then awakened to a helicopter, running around in the dark, and an explosion.  To my mind, nothing good has ever come of a CM episode featuring helicopters, running around in the dark, or explosions.  They mostly just substitute for plot.  So I went back to sleep.  When finally watched through, the episode generated only random thoughts:

The conspiracy plot, or, rather, the DOJ’s reaction to it, was too hokey to create much tension.

I tried to buy into the plot anyway, and found myself very sorely missing the element of righteous anger that I think would have been Morgan’s response to the arrest of his unit chief. That part of the team’s personality has disappeared with him, sadly.  The rest are far too controlled emotionally.  We get an occasional spark from Rossi or Reid, but it’s not enough.  We need someone on screen who reacts the way we do, serving as the audience’s representative to whatever is happening.  I hadn’t realized it until he was gone, but I think Morgan did that.

I actually think Cade did very well expressing Jack’s trauma at being invaded by a group of armed agents, and seeing his father arrested, and again at the end, when Jack went somewhere inside himself, keeping his father at arm’s length.

Henry was cute, but poor Michael was mostly edited out.  Maybe he was teething.

I think it would have been absolutely fascinating to have Tara and at least one other BAU member stuck in a prison ward with some of the serial killers they’ve studied and/or put away, and have to outwit them in order to escape.  Could easily have filled a whole episode.  But to have Tara realize where she was, and the prison doors open, only to be rescued 15 seconds later----just a waste of opportunity.

So was the prisoners’ exchange of clothing with the wardens, and then the SWAT team---Interesting, but resolved in under a minute.  I would have liked to see an episode where the BAU has to figure out who is who through their wits alone.

Speaking of the prison scenes---- did anyone else find it odd that our Kevlar-vested team wasn’t offered helmets and/or other body armor, when they accompanied SWAT?  Especially when a team member (Hotch) put himself at the front of the group?  On the other hand, they really should all just have stayed outside with Rossi.  It’s not like they were profiling in there. 

Speaking of dangerous things----our team watched helicopter full of fuel and explosives fall from the sky, on fire………and then they all walked toward it.  BOOM!

Not interested in the Rossi/Hayden thing at all.  Way too manufactured.

I liked JJ’s barely controlled anger with Antonia, but would have bought it more if she’d (JJ) shown some of it closer to the time of Hotch’s arrest.

Yes, they screwed up on Diana’s fear of flying.  Which was sadly amusing, since it seemed obvious they were trying to delve into the show’s history, and prove they were capable of continuity.

Reid was great with Asher.  From his description of autism/Asperger’s, and his demeanor when providing it, I sensed a distancing of the notion that Reid has either. Put another way, I think MGG would have played Reid differently in that scene, if he thought Reid was describing traits that he himself possessed.  Since that aligns with my impression of Reid (having neither autism nor Asperger’s), I say, YAY!, and let’s put that notion to bed, permanently.

There have been better season finales, and there have been worse.  Since it might also have served as a series finale, I guess the final implication that the work will continue is a good one.  I just wish the writers didn’t equate ‘finale’ with ‘blow the budget on helicopters and explosions’.  I would so much prefer an intriguing battle of wits.

As usual, JMO, I agree with your critique, especially the highlighted parts. I also think that if they were gonna "go there" with Tara confronting and trying to talk down the SK she had interviewed in the first episode, they should have really gone there. But, I do think they were so into making it a team show, and since Tara's the latest member, she probably deserved the least storyline.

[ForeverAlone]

Oh yeah. Breen is weak on continuity. He always has been. He often likes to do callbacks, but he often gets stuff wrong, and then is surprised when more knowledgable fans call him on it.

I too thought some of the police procedure was off, from the way they arrested Hotch in the first place. It did not even occur to me that SWAT SHOULD have shot Hotch dead when he pointed his weapon at them, but that is absolutely right. The BAU has shot unsubs dead for less. I also agree about the distinct lack of protective gear for the team and agree that they wouldn't have been waving around guns in the first place, not when specially trained teams are there.

On further reflection, the depiction of the serial killers in jail felt off to me. They were portrayed more like movie monsters rather than human beings with deviant behavior. What I mean, is that the implication was that once they were released, they were going to attack like zombies or something. Most of them are not necessarily more immediately dangerous than other violent criminals. And any that are truly mentally ill are more likely to be in a psychiatric prison hospital or something. 

[threebluestars]

I thought we were going to get a scene like in Damaged when Reid and Hotch were stuck with Chester Hardwick. I thought we'd see Tara use profiling to get out of it. But no. It's not season 3.

[Droogie]

For the most part, I was willing to suspend my disbelief.  I enjoyed the lighter moments, like the gathering Rossi's backyard.  I was dreading it, but I liked it.  

I thought Thomas Gibson was great, and I loved Hotch's storyline.  I got to see a Hotchalanche, and I got to see him lead the brigade (far-fetched though it was) even while he never lost focus on his son.  Just the way he manages to switch between Hotch/Dad/Hotch is pretty cool -- TG pulls that off.  Loved the reference Elle -- it brought some of those issues full-circle, for me.  And his heartfelt conversation with JJ at Rossi's was poignant and rang true.

I loved all the Reid moments.  I felt like we got to see him do one of the things he does best, which is relating to someone on his or her own level, gently, and succeeding in getting valuable,information without bloodshed.  I do find him guilty of Profiling While Pretty, though.  My goodness.  (And I do have thoughts on the sweater he wore, which I find plausible, but I won't delve into them here, simply because it will seem sad that I put much/any thought into the matter at all). 

The Rossi/Hayden bits didn't bother me like I expected they would.  And sorry, but what a waste of poor Josh Taylor -- hey dude, can you come back and essentially be a babysitter for like five minutes?  You'll get a quick kiss and three lines.  And like several other s have said, what the heck about Diana having no trouble flying?  And how did we go from her not even recognizing her son to being able to travel to Paris with him? Sloppy.

And sorry, but my Lovelorn Reid alarm was creeping into the red zone.  I sensed a Reid/Lewis vibe.  She looked quite fetching in the red dress she wore to Rossi's. Did she and Spencer go there together, or did they just arrive at the same time?  I could dig it.

All in all, I sense that this episode could serve as a series coda, albeit a weak one -- not the one we would've gotten if the show had ended after, say, season four.  But I could learn to live with it.  I remain hopeful, however, about a season 12. 

[ReidFan]

I'm assuming you meant Josh Stewart, who plays Will?

and ick ick ICK no way! No Tara/Spencer egaaaaaaads. Droogie, please don't do that to me! :D

[Droogie]

18 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I'm assuming you meant Josh Stewart, who plays Will?

and ick ick ICK no way! No Tara/Spencer egaaaaaaads. Droogie, please don't do that to me! :D

Oh good grief.  Yes, I meant Josh Stewart.  I just finished a semester the other day and a three 12h shifts in a row yesterday. I don't have two brain cells to rub together right now.

And you can shake me til my eyeballs rattle but I could absolutely go for a Reid/Lewis pairing.  One, because these writers have lowered my standards to the point that I'll take anything.  And two, because even though I don't trust the writers one whit, I need to see my boy happily paired off and in a forever kind of love before he profiles off into the sunset.  I can't stand the thought of the series ending, thinking Soencer will be alone for the rest of his life.

So yeah, Lewis.  She's beautiful, brainy, strong -- could keep up with him intellectually and understand the job.  I can see where he might be drawn to a woman slightly older.  They haven't done an intra-team pairing, so it makes sense to me and could be compelling.  I'm not afraid to stand out on this ledge alone!  :-)

[ReidFan]

:-( but he wants a family. She's too old for that. (and of course, the whole don't get involved with a law enforcement co worker)

[MMC]

13 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

Here is a post mortem interview with Erica.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-finale-postmortem-season-12-plans/

Erica Messer irritated the hell out of me in this so called interview,but then she usually does.WTF is this "we don't need a shrinking cast" crap of hers.Maybe I am reading it wrong but it sounded like to me that she wants a replacement for Morgan and to keep Tara.How come Beyond Boredom gets to have a smaller cast of 5,but not CM. I just don't feel it is necessary to replace Morgan if the Lewis character is going to continue to get the screen time she has been. I am also tired of EM bragging about her shiny new toy.And I can't help but think that next season is being set up so as to give Lewis more to do.Because naturally as they recapture these so called unsubs someone will have to interview them or in some cases interview them again.And would anyone care to guess who it's going to be.

I also call BS on Hayden supposedly being the one to get away. Were we not lead to believe that despite their divorce that Carolina was Rossi true love and that all these other ex-wives were merely substitutes for her. At least that is the impression I got.

[Droogie]

19 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

:-( but he wants a family. She's too old for that. (and of course, the whole don't get involved with a law enforcement co worker)

Oh, I completely get that technically they couldn't become involved bc of their jobs.  I'm hand-waving in a big way here.

But let's don't count out her potentially dried-up ovaries just yet.  Look at Janet Jackson.  And Iman.  And Susan Sarandon.  And Diana Ross.  Not that I would personally want to become pregnant in my mid- to late-40s; just that it's not inconceivable (no pun intended, but I like it). 

[Sparger Springs]

Sheryl Lee Ralph's (Hayden) accent is ridiculous. Where is she supposed to be from? I don't understand Rossi getting back with the woman that hid his kid from him for 30 years cause she didn't like his job. They should be cordial to each other for their daughter and clearly adopted grandson. In the real world you tell the dad he flakes out with full knowledge and you let the kid decide how to deal with dad. Unless of course dad is  a horrible abuser.

[Clemgo3165]

2 hours ago, Droogie said:

And sorry, but my Lovelorn Reid alarm was creeping into the red zone.  I sensed a Reid/Lewis vibe.  She looked quite fetching in the red dress she wore to Rossi's. Did she and Spencer go there together, or did they just arrive at the same time?  I could dig it.

I'm a Reid/Emily shipper from way back and it did my little shipper's heart good to see that Reid new exactly where Garcia was going for her vacation before she even said it. Like maybe he'd skyped with Emily just that morning. 

Yeah, I know it'll never happen, but it made me happy anyway.

[JMO]

I'm liking the Tara Lewis character a bit more than I did at the beginning, and I can see how she can fit into the team.  But there is a-----for lack of a better word---'heaviness' to her, or to her portrayal, that, for me, weighs down every scene she's in.  Don't know why that is, because she does smile, and she does joke a bit----but that's how I react each time. So I don't really want to see her with Reid.  I'd rather see him with someone who brightens the room a bit more.  All we have to do is find her for him.

[Droogie]

Agree, JMO!  But time's a-wastin', so I will take what I can get!

As an aside, my husband (who will watch with me on occasion but could hardly be called a fan), commented on Garcia last night (and I wasn't finding her offensive in the least, which just shows how much I've become inured to her character):

"Man, is her schtick getting old or what?"

[Lebanna]

4 hours ago, Sparger Springs said:

Sheryl Lee Ralph's (Hayden) accent is ridiculous. Where is she supposed to be from? 

Much as I'm not that keen on Hayden - you just don't keep someone's kid a secret from them unless they're actually evil or abusive - come on... I actually don't have such an issue with her accent. She's supposed to be originally British, right? But she's lived long enough in the U.S. to have a daughter in her early thirties who sounds completely American? So at least 25 years. That's long enough to have the kind of mid-Atlantic thing she has happening. She sounds a bit like Loyd Grossman. It's not necessarily the most beautiful accent, but I can completely believe it.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Lebanna

[Lebanna]

Double post

Edited May 5, 2016 by Lebanna

[Sparger Springs]

53 minutes ago, Lebanna said:

Much as I'm not that keen on Hayden - you just don't keep someone's kid a secret from them unless they're actually evil or abusive - come on... I actually don't have such an issue with her accent. She's supposed to be originally British, right? But she's lived long enough in the U.S. to have a daughter in her early thirties who sounds completely American? So at least 25 years. That's long enough to have the kind of mid-Atlantic thing she has happening. She sounds a bit like Loyd Grossman. It's not necessarily the most beautiful accent, but I can completely believe it.

Not sure where she is supposed to be from. But Sheryl Lee Ralph is from Connecticut. 

[SSAHotchner]

4 hours ago, JMO said:

I'm liking the Tara Lewis character a bit more than I did at the beginning, and I can see how she can fit into the team.  But there is a-----for lack of a better word---'heaviness' to her, or to her portrayal, that, for me, weighs down every scene she's in.  Don't know why that is, because she does smile, and she does joke a bit----but that's how I react each time. So I don't really want to see her with Reid.  I'd rather see him with someone who brightens the room a bit more.  All we have to do is find her for him.

I feel like Aisha is trying so hard to be taken seriously as an actress that she feels she can't smile or look good. That hideous hair she had at the beginning of the season was supposedly her idea. She didn't want to look glamorous at all. Okay, so she should look ugly? I think your word "heaviness" describes her acting perfectly. 

[normasm]

23 minutes ago, SSAHotchner said:

I feel like Aisha is trying so hard to be taken seriously as an actress that she feels she can't smile or look good. That hideous hair she had at the beginning of the season was supposedly her idea. She didn't want to look glamorous at all. Okay, so she should look ugly? I think your word "heaviness" describes her acting perfectly. 

SSAH, I think AT is rather trying to be a woman in a difficult job, using her skills and not sex-pouting her way to any position. I don't think AJ sex-pouts her way in her JJ job, but they do write her more in that direction. I like AT's restraint, and her gravity makes her character less sexy, but to me, more realistic. She acts as if competency is her prime goal, and that plays against most TV tropes. I like it. She's not in this to end up partnered with anyone. She's there to do her job.

[smoker]

19 minutes ago, normasm said:

SSAH, I think AT is rather trying to be a woman in a difficult job, using her skills and not sex-pouting her way to any position. I don't think AJ sex-pouts her way in her JJ job, but they do write her more in that direction. I like AT's restraint, and her gravity makes her character less sexy, but to me, more realistic. She acts as if competency is her prime goal, and that plays against most TV tropes. I like it. She's not in this to end up partnered with anyone. She's there to do her job.

weeeell, I do. And I loved that of Blake, she looked like a FBI analyst is supposed to look.

If you remember JJ as liaison, she never had any problem blinking any guy out of their way. Even I remember a scene where Hotch and JJ showed their non verbal communication and Hotch pimped her through his glance. Now, she abuses less of her looks, but she doesn't have any problem taking advantage of it. And I would add she does it very well, JJ/AJ is aware of her beauty and knows how to use it. Sometimes I think she is lucky and smart and others I think she is lazy and cheeky.

[smoker]

I'm still rewatching the episode.

However, I want to say even if the plot was full of holes, the episode was entertaining. And after the poor quality and boring episodes we got this season, I am content getting at least one of those things.

I've started talking about JJ so I am going to complain about one of her scenes. The one she had with Antonia. While I was watching that scene it let me a bit cold, I just didn't buy JJ getting the upper hand in that interview. Anyway. A few hours later, I watched The Americans... not spoilers, don't worry, but there is a scene between Keri Russell and the actress who plays her daughter... and that was some (JMO stealing your words here) controlling anger masterclass, the difference between KR and AJ Cook is embarrasing. I would say JJ was being cocky while I could feel Elizabeth Jennings anger and frustration and I saw her trying to keep all that at bay.

Edited May 6, 2016 by smoker

[Danielg342]

I was about ready to declare "best episode EVAR! YASS!@!#!!@$!!"

Well, okay...good. Maybe great even. Not sure about "best episode ever"- that's hyperbole.

...but then I thought, "why on Earth would anyone, let alone the Department of Justice, believe anything that Peter Lewis says?" I grant that they said they didn't, but Lewis' testimony was enough to get the DOJ to monitor Hotch and I think that's a stretch. Lewis had already shown that he was capable of complex plans and he had a motive to take down Hotch...why wouldn't the investigators think it may be a trap?

I mean, I could see Hotch getting questioned...but arrested? That's a bit of a stretch.

Also, if Lewis wanted to take down Hotch to keep him from investigating the upcoming crimes, why not just take down the entire BAU? He would certainly be capable of that.

Furthermore, as @Sparger Springs said, if Lewis, Eric Rowdon, et all had left the BAU well enough alone, they would have gotten away with their plan. At least to blow up one city.

Either that, or set a trap for the BAU...if Lewis was going to invoke them, he should at least account for how to get rid of them. Setting them up to get unwittingly blown up would be the perfect idea.

(...and, in an episode full of callbacks, Hotch losing four agents is eeriely reminiscent of Gideon losing six to Adrian Bale)

So I thought that, while it was engaging and at times fun, it flew on by without really that much purpose. It felt a lot like "action for the sake of action" instead of a well-thought out plot. Granted, it was more engaging than a lot of shows when they try to be an "action" show (like The Blacklist), but this episode really rang hollow for me.

Other things:

-Not sure what water AJ Cook drank but, man, did she kill it with Antonia Slade. Where's that performance been for the past 11 years?

-Loved Reid in this episode. He was competent, mature and firm while still being relatable and kind. He should have been like this a long time ago, but, better late than never

-Rossi/Hayden...no sparks. Not buying it

-Do prisons really have a "serial killer wing"? I guess in this universe it would make sense

-Gotta love how the show decided to use a black man to be the guard who was offed to signal there was trouble. As if black men aren't "sacrificial heroes" enough in Hollywood

-Tara Lewis didn't have much to do, but her scene with the serial killers at Virgina Maximum Penitentiary was very good. Aisha Tyler nailed the "oh crap, what do I do now?" look. I might have appreciated it better if Tara found a way out of the situation on her own instead of having to rely on the Hotch Ex Machina to save her.

-Yay for Josh Stewart's return, but couldn't he have done a lot more than say "c'mon kids, let's get settled in to Hotch's office"? Stewart must think "this is the easiest paycheque I've ever got", while also being frustrated that he hasn't been a useful character in four years

-Speaking of usefulness, wouldn't it have been fun if the BAU were in trouble and Joy and Will had to work together to save them? The show seems to have forgot that Will was once a detective in his own right and Joy is an investigative reporter...the ingredients were there for a "team in peril" episode and the writers whiffed. Badly

-Lastly, are the 12 serial killers on the loose a set up for how the show wants to proceed in Season 12? I could get behind an entire season where the team works to catch all those guys

Episode Grade: C-. Engaging and at times fun, but major plot holes sink it from being the episode it could have been.

[smoker]

12 hours ago, JMO said:

Speaking of the prison scenes---- did anyone else find it odd that our Kevlar-vested team wasn’t offered helmets and/or other body armor, when they accompanied SWAT?  Especially when a team member (Hotch) put himself at the front of the group?  On the other hand, they really should all just have stayed outside with Rossi.  It’s not like they were profiling in there. 

Agree, I think it's because main actors don't want to cover themselves. that's something pretty common and I would let it slide if the episode (and the show) wasn't full of inconsistencies.

And if I let myself fall in Messer's world, I would have loved Hotch in sniper mode, a good rifle or some weapon like that would have been more useful against the inmates and against the chopper.

I can't believe they waste all that money burning that thing. Messer is a lousy financial manager.

14 hours ago, zannej said:

The writers clearly do NOT understand police protocol at all. .

1. If they were watching Hotch and decided to go apprehend him, they most certainly would NOT have done it after seeing JJ and her kid enter the building.

2. If they really thought Hotch was dangerous and he had pointed his weapon at them, they would have just blown him away.

3. Hotch would have known #2 and would have put his gun down the moment he saw the SWAT team.

4. Hotch used to be a prosecutor and there is no way in hell that he would have admitted to ANY wrongdoing. Furthermore, Hotch would not have been the one to determine whether or not Elle or Rossi were justified in their shoots-- that would have been on OIG. Elle was cleared by OIG for her shooting of Lee and Rossi must have been cleared as well-- so there is no way those incidences would have been brought up. It wasn't up to Hotch whether or not Rossi's shoot was "good" or not. And Hotch certainly never would have admitted to allowing Rossi to get away with murder. He wouldn't have said that it was a different situation. He would have said that according to Rossi, the unsub pointed a gun at him and he defended himself. Or he would have said that it was OIG who cleared Rossi.

5. I don't buy that Hotch left out being drugged. That just doesn't make sense. He would have been taken to the hospital and checked out. It would have been on the record. He's not stupid.

 

you are so right! and I agree with most of your points, but keeping it inside of police protocol, shouldn't Marshal's office take care of the inmates on the run? At least, they should work together... Another universal flaw in any show or film about law enforment, the main agency/department is awesome and the others are incompetent.

This just makes me miss Justified, Raylan Givens was a Mary Sue, but some way they managed he remainined cool enough.

Edited May 6, 2016 by smoker

[smoker]

36 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

(...and, in an episode full of callbacks, Hotch losing four agents is eeriely reminiscent of Gideon losing six to Adrian Bale)

So I thought that, while it was engaging and at times fun, it flew on by without really that much purpose. It felt a lot like "action for the sake of action" instead of a well-thought out plot. Granted, it was more engaging than a lot of shows when they try to be an "action" show (like The Blacklist), but this episode really rang hollow for me.

Other things:

-Yay for Josh Stewart's return, but couldn't he have done a lot more than say "c'mon kids, let's get settled in to Hotch's office"? Stewart must think "this is the easiest paycheque I've ever got", while also being frustrated that he hasn't been a useful character in four years

-Speaking of usefulness, wouldn't it have been fun if the BAU were in trouble and Joy and Will had to work together to save them? The show seems to have forgot that Will was once a detective in his own right and Joy is an investigative reporter...the ingredients were there for a "team in peril" episode and the writers whiffed. Badly

-Lastly, are the 12 serial killers on the loose a set up for how the show wants to proceed in Season 12? I could get behind an entire season where the team works to catch all those guys

Episode Grade: C-. Engaging and at times fun, but major plot holes sink it from being the episode it could have been.

Agree.

About team Will and Joy, right now, it could be interesting if they do it right and don't take it too seriously, it could be the alternative to musical episodes in other shows hahahaha. Maybe a bonus minisode xD

Edited May 6, 2016 by smoker

[secnarf]

27 minutes ago, smoker said:

About team Will and Joy, right now, it could be interesting if they do it right and don't take it too seriously, it could be the alternative to musical episodes in other shows hahahaha. Maybe a bonus minisode xD

I'd take "Once More, With Feeling" over "The Will and Joy Show" any day ;)

[MMC]

 This episode got a 1.8 and 8,840,000 viewers.So that means it was down in overall views, but was up in it's demo.Now considering the fact that it went up against all new episodes of the other shows competing for the same time spot, I'd say that was pretty good. I think CM also benefited from the fact that many people did not realize that they had aired a new episode of L&O:SVU. As for the spin off, it's demo was even with the 1.2 it got last week. And it's overall viewership was just under 7 million viewers.

[zannej]

While it was nice to hear Elle Greenaway mentioned, I just wish it hadn't been in that particular context. The shoots from Elle and Rossi were meta things that should not have been brought up. Also, there is no way in hell that Hotch and JJ could have faked Emily's death and sent her off to Europe without official approval and resources. They would have had to go through proper channels and another agency would have been involved. If they had not, it wouldn't have happened and if they had actually done something without going through proper channels, they both would have been fired. What *would* have been fair for them to bring up was the fiasco in "200" that showed a lack of judgment on Hotch's part-- But, as I said before, he already would have been disciplined or fired over that if they were going to make it an issue.

The going on about Hotch being more loose with the rules since Haley's death only served to remind me how the writing has declined on the show.

Also, this was a missed opportunity to bring in Cruz. Protocol dictates that prior to sending SWAT to Hotch's door, they would have to contact his direct supervisor first. Cruz would likely have gone along. Something similar happened in my father's job. One of his subordinates had a roommate who apparently had some marijuana shipped to her via mail. DEA picked up that it was going to the subordinate's home but didn't pay attention to the fact that the name it was addressed to was not his. Their response was to completely overreact by going to his door in SWAT gear with guns drawn-- BUT they had to notify my father first. He said there was no way he was going to let them go over there and arrest his subordinate without him being present. He said they got there and just started pounding on the door and ordering the guy to open it (without identifying themselves as law enforcement). They were about to kick the door in and my father knew this guy and knew that he would start shooting because he didn't know what was going on. So, he stopped them and said "Let me handle this" and then called out to the guy through the door to tell him who it was and told him to please open the door and they would get things sorted out. He then stayed with the guy and made sure nobody tried to pull any BS with him. (One of the reasons I like Hotch is because he reminds me of my father in some ways-- did not take crap from people, would read someone the riot act if they screwed up, but was fair and protective).

Hayden's accent really bugs me. The casting call said they were looking for a sophisticated woman with a British accent. It seems that they changed their minds about the accent.

I agree with the points about the serial killers not all deciding to act like zombie monsters to attack the moment they were let go. And they all waited in the wings dramatically. If they were going to zerg and kill, they would have done it. It was just too contrived.

While the lack of protective gear for the team does bug me, I've learned to accept it as one of the common television and movie cheats. It's something they do to make it so we can see and identify the named characters. I actually liked how they accomplished it in Star Wars: Episode VII where another stormtrooper left a bloody handprint on Fin's helmet so we could more easily differentiate him from the rest of the stormtroopers.

If they really feel they need another character on the show, I wouldn't mind if they brought on the Asian guy from the spinoff (Simmons?). He can do the action stuff and I like him. But, that would be contingent on the spinoff not getting picked up for another season AND this show actually getting picked up.

I don't really want someone who gets outraged and angry though. I thought it was a huge disservice to Morgan when they started making him more volatile and angry. He started out as much more controlled. That's not to say that I think the team should never lose their tempers. I wish there had been a bit more of outrage from the team about Hotch's situation. Any one of them could have said "This is complete bullshit!"

Speaking of the flirty stuff from earlier seasons-- I still remember when it seemed like JJ was going to flirt with a reporter who was pestering her for a scoop. She held his tie, leaned in, and told him that he should reconsider his choice of ties. I got a big kick out of that one for some reason.

At this point, I admit that the cliffhanger story was so uninteresting to me, that I don't care if the show gets picked up for another season. I used to be excited about new episodes and would eagerly wait for them to be on. Now I don't even remember and sometimes wait a few days to watch after they've aired. It has changed too much for me to enjoy as much as I used to.

[Old Dog]

If Hayden's accent is supposed to be British it is the hokeyest one I ever heard. Speaking as a Briton.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Old Dog
misspell

[stillbored]

On May 5, 2016 at 10:04 AM, JMO said:

 

Speaking of the prison scenes---- did anyone else find it odd that our Kevlar-vested team wasn’t offered helmets and/or other body armor, when they accompanied SWAT?  Especially when a team member (Hotch) put himself at the front of the group?  On the other hand, they really should all just have stayed outside with Rossi.  It’s not like they were profiling in there. 

 

This seems to happen in all crime shows and it really really bugs me. Half the time the ones with out all the protective gear on are the ones leading the SWAT team in. I wish they would just give the lead actors the gear so it looks somewhat realistic. 

I enjoyed the episode.  I'm not sure how many bullets Lewis had on her, but I would have started shootign as soon as the first one came out of his cell. The doors were beign opened one at a time, and the serial killers were walking towards her very slowly. 

When the warden first went to the control room after the prisoners starting coming out their cells, there was no one there - where were they and how did the first prisoners get there to open the rest of the cells (which i assume is what happened in order for all those doors to be opening). 

[ForeverAlone]

For this elaborate prison break plan to work across multiple prisons, there basically had to be a serious amount of inside help of the corrections officers who worked there being in on it. While we have seen the occasional prison worker will help a prisoner to escape, I seriously question some low level terrorist wannabe having the ability to inspire such a coordinated attack. That is something outlandish  you would expect on "The Following", and that show was ridiculous in its depiction of FBI operations. I do not recall any attempt in this episode to detail how this elaborate plot was actually able to come together. It is that lack of plausible narrative coherency that bothers me the most about this episode (that lack of adherence to police protocol being the second).

[thewhiteowl]

It was one of the better episodes of the season for me. I don't stress too much on how implausible it is or correct police procedure if I am entertained and I was. I liked the team interaction and loved seeing so much Hotch. Weird to see germaphobe Reid rolling on the ground but okay. 

[Trillian]

There was such a Godfather feel to that final scene with Rossi closing the door on his ex.  Kay, don't ask me about my business.   And it followed his protestations that things would be different in the future, that he would spend more time with his family - mirroring in 5 years, the Corleone family will be completely legitimate. Either it was entirely coincidental - am I the only one who thinks she noticed it?- or it was a clumsy homage. 

[normasm]

Trillian, truly, I couldn't care less about Hayden, but yes, I know that's the feeling they were going for, that this poor delicate flower - who's at least 55 and hid her pregnancy and Rossi's child from him for 30 years - is so vewwy sad to not have Rossi drop his entire life to play smoochies with her. Yuck. I'm hoping against hope that's the last time we see her.

[ReidFan]

Did they say there were 13 simultaneous prison breaks? Ignoring the obvious (how the hell would they accomplish that without a lot of outside help),  and besides the guy that died in the helicopter blowup, who else do you think has escaped/would you 'like' to be an escapee thinking that it may bring them back to guest star next season? (and again, I'm wondering how legit that would be, since they wouldn't be unsubs, they're KNOWN, but anyway..) Here's who I'd like to see back, for starters: 

Cat Adams (Aubrey Plaza)- from Entropy

Antonia Slade (Frances Fisher) --and make more use of her than they did in Storm, but not so that she dominates the screentime

Mr Scratch (Bodhi Elfman) --with the codicil that Matthew Gray Gubler directs the episode and Breen Frazier writes it

Adrian Bale (Tim Kelleher) -from Won't Get Fooled Again

Tim Vogel (Andrew Jackson) from the series pilot (he's just a personal favourite actor of mine from a real life experience : )  )

[normasm]

No, it was 2 more prison breaks I believe from their serial killer wings (which i cal BS on the very concept of a serial killer wing in a superman prison; but then again, we live in the era of private prisons, and who knows what the private sector wants to see?). A total of 13 serial killers are on the loose, the only one identified is Peter Lewis. I think it shouldn't just be serial killers, personally. 

[ReidFan]

thanks for clearing that up, and cool, Peter Lewis IS one of them yay! :)