The Bunker

[trxr4kids]

After recent discussion in the bitterness thread I thought I'd bravely start a new topic about the bunker. So here are the pros and cons as I see them.

 

Pros: It's a nice set

          It's good for them to have a home base

 

Cons: It's not as safe and secure as advertised, it's like something in the as seen on tv aisle at Walgreens, better in theory than practice.

           It has been no more useful as a resource of information/ knowledge than John's journal, Bobby or the Roadhouse were.

 

 

ETA: I thought it was a pretty interesting discussion and didn't think it should die yet.

Edited April 22, 2016 by trxr4kids

[MysteryGuest]

Thanks for the new thread, trxr4kids!  Since I'm pretty much pro-bunker, this works for me.  Aside from the actual building itself, which I think is totally cool, I love the whole idea of this secret society of brainiacs.  I love the fact that Sam and Dean get to be legacies of the Men of Letters.  I think it's something they're proud of, even though Dean might not admit it.  

 

It opens up all sorts of opportunities for the writers, though they might not always take the best advantage of it.  I've loved the episodes that delve back into the history of the MOL, meeting their grandfather, meeting Dorothy and the wicked witch, etc.  They might not all be perfect episodes, but I've enjoyed them.  It gives them a history and something to feel a part of, rather than just feeling like they're cursed.  

[SueB]

I want them to have a wall of Fallen Heroes. Sort of like the CIA.

https://imgur.com/a/jhVwv

[Binns]

I am VERY pro-bunker and it sort of surprises me because I love when they are on the road and staying in kitschy motels. But I just adore that they have an actual home now...they've never had one, at least not since Sam was 6 months old. I wish Sam would "nest" more like Dean does. I would love to see them explore more of it.

And one of my biggest questions....the boys sometimes need to be in separate vehicles. Why have we never seen them driving one of the classic cars in the garage? Or one of the motorcycles?

[MysteryGuest]

I'd love to see them roll out one of those old cars.  And Dean did get Dorothy's permission to ride her motorcycle.  It could be part of our "day in the life" episode we were talking about.  Dean's a mechanic at heart, so he knows that cars need to be run in order to stay in working order.  Maybe that's part of his weekly routine...taking the cars out for a spin around the neighborhood!

[trxr4kids]

 I love the fact that Sam and Dean get to be legacies of the Men of Letters.  I think it's something they're proud of, even though Dean might not admit it.  

 

 It gives them a history and something to feel a part of, rather than just feeling like they're cursed.  

I kinda thought it was weird that Dean initially seemed to like it more than Sam ( meaning seemed more excited by it, etc.) since it seemed more like a Sam thing to me because of the library and the knowledge alone.

 

I feel pretty much the opposite in that it just seems to highlight that their family has been cursed on both sides. By that I mean targeted by hell and heaven's forces.

 

To the points about the vehicles from Binns and Mystery Guest, it's just another way they've failed to utilize the bunker and it's resources, it just bugs me. They've had 3 seasons to use it as more than a set and imo haven't. I'm glad some of you love it though, I don't think I can, although Sam calling Dean out on wearing a dead guy robe was great.

 

I once read a short fanfic, like under a 1000 words, about how Sam came across a room when they were inventorying that had these gym locker sized doors with plaques that had names and dates written on them, he was freaked out thinking they were holding human remains. Dean thought he was being paranoid and started reading names and opening them, he found various items like a sweater and stuff, then they found one with his name and he opened it and it had his clothes and boots from when he travelled back in time and met Elliot Ness ( Time After Time), he was thrilled cause they were his favorite boots. If only they did stuff like that on the show, sigh.

[catrox14]

 

I kinda thought it was weird that Dean initially seemed to like it more than Sam ( meaning seemed more excited by it, etc.) since it seemed more like a Sam thing to me because of the library and the knowledge alone.

 

And that points a HUGE problem in the shift of the show from how it portrayed Dean early on to the dumbing down of Dean over the years and as dictacted by plot.

 

Back in s1 and s2 especially, Dean was always reading. Studying. He was not adverse to research. He enjoyed it. And Dean CLEARLY was a reader because he knew the difference between Vonneguts books. He was adept enough with computers. Frank taught him how to hack better.   At the beginning of s8, Dean found an app to translate languages and he was so proud of it. Yet Sam mocked him for it. Just like Sam mocked Dean is s1 with the EMF detector Dean made. I think those moments really stung Dean and left Dean thinking Sam thought Dean was stupid or something. And I think Dean deep down admired Sam for going to college. He didn't like how it happened though.

 

I think finding out he was a Legacy was a source of pride that maybe he didn't really think was a thing for him.  I think he became less enamored when he found out from Henry how the MoL were pretty much bigots towards hunters. They thought they were apes. But I think Dean does love the books, the records, the liquor all of it.  I think that's why he's still okay with living there.

[trxr4kids]

And that points a HUGE problem in the shift of the show from how it portrayed Dean early on to the dumbing down of Dean over the years and as dictacted by plot.

 

Back in s1 and s2 especially, Dean was always reading. Studying. He was not adverse to research. He enjoyed it. And Dean CLEARLY was a reader because he knew the difference between Vonneguts books. He was adept enough with computers. Frank taught him how to hack better.   At the beginning of s8, Dean found an app to translate languages and he was so proud of it. Yet Sam mocked him for it. Just like Sam mocked Dean is s1 with the EMF detector Dean made. I think those moments really stung Dean and left Dean thinking Sam thought Dean was stupid or something. And I think Dean deep down admired Sam for going to college. He didn't like how it happened though.

 

I think finding out he was a Legacy was a source of pride that maybe he didn't really think was a thing for him.  I think he became less enamored when he found out from Henry how the MoL were pretty much bigots towards hunters. They thought they were apes. But I think Dean does love the books, the records, the liquor all of it.  I think that's why he's still okay with living there.

I totally agree that Dean is and always has been smart, I meant that it seemed weird that Dean seemed outwardly more excited over it than Sam did or has, since that's more a Sam thing( or used to be ) to be outwardly impressed by those types of things where as Dean is more likely to poorly hide his excitement or make comments specifically to rile Sam.I miss the banter, damnit. I was disappointed in the total lack of brotherly banter that should have happened with Dean telling Sam he could have alone time in the library.

 

I also agree the show frequently dumbs down each of the characters but feel Dean gets it more often. Anyway I should have been more clear in my comment since I know it pisses me off when Dean or Sam is dumbed down or people act like they're surprised Dean's smart and that's how I sounded without meaning it, I'll hand in my Dean fan card for 30 days as penance, kidding you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hand. ; )

[catrox14]

I totally agree that Dean is and always has been smart, I meant that it seemed weird that Dean seemed outwardly more excited over it than Sam did or has, since that's more a Sam thing( or used to be ) to be outwardly impressed by those types of things where as Dean is more likely to poorly hide his excitement or make comments specifically to rile Sam.I miss the banter, damnit. I was disappointed in the total lack of brotherly banter that should have happened with Dean telling Sam he could have alone time in the library.

 

I knew what you meant :). No fan cards are necessary here LOL

 

To me Dean was like a kid in a candy store IMO. He wouldn't have been as thrilled about that books as Sam but I think the toys, the swords, the throwback to the art deco era  etc appealed to Dean's inner **geek He loved LARPing and now he's in a big giant playhouse.

Edited April 24, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

I think Dean was also thrilled for Sam when they saw the library for the first time.  Dean is perfectly capable of reading, researching, etc., but I don't think it's ever been shown to be his favorite part of the job.  He'd much rather just get on with the action.  But he very much loves Sam and knows just what that library would mean to him.  Not just because of the wealth of information it would give them, but because it suits Sam's nerdy persona.

Edited April 24, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[DittyDotDot]

To the points about the vehicles from Binns and Mystery Guest, it's just another way they've failed to utilize the bunker and it's resources, it just bugs me. They've had 3 seasons to use it as more than a set and imo haven't. I'm glad some of you love it though, I don't think I can, although Sam calling Dean out on wearing a dead guy robe was great.

This pretty much sums up my disappointment in the lair. If they had used it to help tell story rather than just a place for them to sit around and spout exposition I could've gotten behind it. I think the bunker is one of the biggest contributors to why the show has gotten so stale over the last couple years when it could've so easily opened up the show to do many new possibilities.

[Demented Daisy]

This pretty much sums up my disappointment in the lair. If they had used it to help tell story rather than just a place for them to sit around and spout exposition I could've gotten behind it. I think the bunker is one of the biggest contributors to why the show has gotten so stale over the last couple years when it could've so easily opened up the show to do many new possibilities.

 

Basically, if the LoL had become a "character" in the way the Impala has?

[DittyDotDot]

Basically, if the LoL had become a "character" in the way the Impala has?

In a way, yes. It's ironic that the set is built with such character and care, but is where all the most boring stuff happens.

[catrox14]

This pretty much sums up my disappointment in the lair. If they had used it to help tell story rather than just a place for them to sit around and spout exposition I could've gotten behind it. I think the bunker is one of the biggest contributors to why the show has gotten so stale over the last couple years when it could've so easily opened up the show to do many new possibilities.

 

I don't understand the bolded part. The show HAS used the Bunker as part of it's storytelling. I don't think it was ever intended to serve as  Warehouse 13 kind of thing.

 

To name a few things ( and there are more): 

 

They found the Bunker because of the Golem case. Sam started cataloguing the info from the Thule book right away. The Thule showed up again in s11 in The Vessel as part of the Hands of God plot.  As an aside, I have a little head canon that the Rod of Aaron will need to be touched again by Aaron Bass to make it work.

 

They found the films showing the blood curing ritual, along with the demon cuffs and then the devils trap dungeon which were used for the Trials to try and cure Crowley and showed up again to capture and cure demon!Dean in s10.

 

They found the key to Oz in the Bunker and that results in Charlie going to Oz...which is shows up again in s10 with Charlie coming back from Oz split into dark and light Charlie and affecting Charlie and Dean's arc in s10.  I still like to know where Charlies go the Book of the Damned. I bet that comes back into play before s11 is over.

 

They do target practice at their shooting range which showed that Sam wasn't okay from the trials

 

Kevin's death was in the Bunker and he was stuck in the vail in the bunker until they found Mama Tran and brought her back to help Kevin leave. 

 

And there are more. I can understand not LIKING the stories but they do exist. 

[MysteryGuest]

For some of us, I think the bunker has become a character.  It hasn't reached Baby proportions by any means,  but it gives me the warm fuzzier.  I love the look of it, the history of it, all of the neat little discoveries, and the fact that it's home to the boys.  It works for the nerd in me.  And while they could always do more, they have done a number of episodes surrounding certain aspects of the bunker.  Dorothy and the witch, Crowley and the dungeon, Kevin's haunting, Dean stalking Sam, just to name a few.  I like knowing that it's there and knowing what it offers Sam and Dean.

 

We cross-posted again, Catrox, but I think our sentiments are the same.

Edited April 24, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[ahrtee]

To the points about the vehicles from Binns and Mystery Guest, it's just another way they've failed to utilize the bunker and it's resources, it just bugs me. They've had 3 seasons to use it as more than a set and imo haven't. I'm glad some of you love it though, I don't think I can, although Sam calling Dean out on wearing a dead guy robe was great.

 

I once read a short fanfic, like under a 1000 words, about how Sam came across a room when they were inventorying that had these gym locker sized doors with plaques that had names and dates written on them, he was freaked out thinking they were holding human remains. Dean thought he was being paranoid and started reading names and opening them, he found various items like a sweater and stuff, then they found one with his name and he opened it and it had his clothes and boots from when he travelled back in time and met Elliot Ness ( Time After Time), he was thrilled cause they were his favorite boots. If only they did stuff like that on the show, sigh.

I think maybe that, as you noted, is the difference between "a set" and a plot starting point.  Yes, it would be nice to use the LoL as the starting point for a story (or several), but, after the first few "wow, look at this!" episodes, they *have* for the most part settled down to using it as a set. 

 

And that's fine with me.  I see it kind of like Bobby's house, where they came to look for help and/or answers (courtesy of Bobby, of course), when needed, but the rest of the time it was just there.  It was used occasionally as a major part of the story (the eps with Bobby's wife, the panic room, and its final farewell) but its main purpose was to give the boys someplace safe to come back to.  (And, as Catrox just noted, they *have* used the bunker and its contents in just the same way as they did Bobby's house.)

 

So I'm guessing the issue is either that some people don't like the idea of the boys being stable at all--they want them forever 20-something and riding off into the sunset in Baby, alone forever, or that they think the bunker is given too much (visual) importance and not enough actual use.  (And that's not counting the inconsistencies about security/warding/rooms that magically appear when needed, etc.)  All are valid points.  

 

Maybe it is lazy writing or saving money (so they don't have to build so many elaborate motel sets any more) but I see living in the bunker as a logical step towards growth for the Winchesters.  They're heading towards middle age, and that (usually) means settling down a little, wanting some stability.  It doesn't mean a house in the suburbs with 2.5 dogs and a kid or giving up the road entirely, but it can mean someplace where they can store stuff and recuperate and sleep in a comfortable bed any time they want, and I'm thrilled they have it. Even older "outlaw" bikers usually have good home lives and just ride on weekends.  One of the things I always enjoyed about the show was that the characters *did* change and grow (at least, until a plot point or storyline makes them do or say things they outgrew years ago).

 

I just chalk up the inconsistencies in what the bunker can/can't do to bad writing, the same as I do the inconsistencies in what angels/demons/various weapons can or can't do, depending on what the story needs them to do.  It annoys me, but not to the point of making me dislike the place, because I see it as so much more.  

 

I think, if Bobby's house hadn't burned, he would have left it to them and they would have used that as their base.  The bunker just gives them more opportunity for exploring and *potential* for stories.  It's just too bad that they haven't used them (yet.)  After all, even Baby was mostly a set until season 5, when they started using her as a character in her own right, saving the day, being sidelined or "injured," and she didn't get her own story for 11 years.

 

So, I'm sorry if people don't like it just because it's underutilized.  I can understand and appreciate that, and yes, I wish they would do more with it myself.   I'm even more sorry if they don't like it just because they think it takes the boys away from the road and the car, because I think that's doing a disservice to the characters.    

 

Could they do more with it?  Sure.  Could they build some really kickass stories around it?  Oh, I hope so.  But meanwhile, it's a very pretty, very interesting set, and I can hope that they do more with it next year.  

[rue721]

I think Dean was also thrilled for Sam when they saw the library for the first time.  Dean is perfectly capable of reading, researching, etc., but I don't think it's ever been shown to be his favorite part of the job.  He'd much rather just get on with the action.  But he very much loves Sam and knows just what that library would mean to him.  Not just because of the wealth of information it would give them, but because it suits Sam's nerdy persona.

 

This is kind of beside the point of the bunker (except when it comes to taste and why I think the bunker is a bad fit for them in general, I guess), but I don't think that Sam is nerdier than Dean. I think Sam is just more uptight, focused, and Type A than Dean. I think Dean is actually "nerdier," in that he seems more drawn toward collecting minutia or trivia and reading/watching stuff for fun. Dean's taste seems to run a little more traditionally "nerdy" than Sam's, too. The man watches anime porn, ffs. He seems to know and have an opinion on every song in the universe recorded between 1967 and 1987, although he apparently had never heard Taylor Swift until he wound up on some random bus in S9 (?). He quotes and makes references to music/movies/cultural stuff pretty much constantly. A lot of entertainment that he likes seems like it's about diving into a whole imaginary world, too (I include the anime porn in that!). Dean isn't "dorky" at all, but I do think he's pretty "nerdy." TBH I like that about him -- I find it charming.

 

OTOH, Sam can be relatively "dorky" and awkward, but I think he's actually not "nerdy" at all. (Which is why I found it weird that they made it a ~thing~ that Sam nerds out over serial killers. I mean come on. He doesn't seem to nerd out about literally ANYTHING else, and of all things, THAT is the subject he's into as an escape/hobby outside of their work (which is also hunting down and killing monsters, making the serial killer thing bizarrely redundant and work-related aside from being kind of random)? It just doesn't ring true to me. YMMV. I stand by my opinion that Sam would be a lot more likely to nerd out over fitness stuff, if he were liable to nerd out about anything. Fitness stuff plays more into his control issues and I can see him liking the physical intensity and focus involved in it. But that's just my random fanwank about the character, lol).

 

Anyway, how that relates to the bunker is:  even though it's a beautiful set, I don't think that it hits the right note for the guys. Imo it would actually be better if it WEREN'T so well-equipped and gorgeous. Honestly, I would prefer if it were some random abandoned trailer or even Bobby's house or someplace else that nobody else would ever look at or bother with -- that they nevertheless decided to make their own, and that eventually became their "home base" organically. In general, I wish that their "home" reflected their personalities more. They've tried to put somewhat of a personal stamp on the bunker, but I just don't see them as "luxurious batcave" kind of men, so even that falls pretty flat to me.

 

But I also hate the whole Men of Letters thing, which seems to be a very unpopular opinion. I hate the guys being part of some hero aristocracy and inheriting a treasure trove. Idk, it just rubs me the wrong way. Also, part of the premise of the show was that they were brought up in the life, and inherited John's journal; imo, by doubling down on that idea by also having them be "pedigreed" and having them inherit a cornucopia of monster-fighting stuff, the show trivialized/undermined that. YMMV.

 

In a way, yes. It's ironic that the set is built with such character and care, but is where all the most boring stuff happens.

 

Imo, it's not ironic -- the Lair is boring precisely because it's too perfect. Whatever happens there is not going to feel dynamic because the Lair is too orderly and complete for it to set the stage for the resourcefulness, adventurousness, and ingenuity that creates dynamism. That orderliness, completeness, timelessness, and perfection of the Lair all create a feeling of "death" there, to me.

[Demented Daisy]

Taking the "nerd" discussion to All Episodes.

[ahrtee]

Anyway, how that relates to the bunker is:  even though it's a beautiful set, I don't think that it hits the right note for the guys. Imo it would actually be better if it WEREN'T so well-equipped and gorgeous. Honestly, I would prefer if it were some random abandoned trailer or even Bobby's house or someplace else that nobody else would ever look at or bother with -- that they nevertheless decided to make their own, and that eventually became their "home base" organically. In general, I wish that their "home" reflected their personalities more. They've tried to put somewhat of a personal stamp on the bunker, but I just don't see them as "luxurious batcave" kind of men, so even that falls pretty flat to me.

 

But I also hate the whole Men of Letters thing, which seems to be a very unpopular opinion. I hate the guys being part of some hero aristocracy and inheriting a treasure trove. Idk, it just rubs me the wrong way. Also, part of the premise of the show was that they were brought up in the life, and inherited John's journal; imo, by doubling down on that idea by also having them be "pedigreed" and having them inherit a cornucopia of monster-fighting stuff, the show trivialized/undermined that. YMMV.

 

 

I can agree with you on it not being a real fit for the boys' characters.  I think it was set up as a convenience from the storytelling POV--a place where they can have everything they ever wanted at their fingertips, *and* be warded at the same time (and have an unlimited power and water source, so they never have to worry about property taxes or utilities bills or being on the "real world" grid).  As that, I don't mind it, and I really enjoy watching them both geeking out at the things inside, and yes, I wish they could have explored it/them more.

 

They could have settled in at Rufus' cabin, or any of Bobby's leftover cabins, but I think they needed a real, non-ramshackle, well-equipped place in order to nest instead of perch.  Honestly, I'd have been happy with them at Bobby's, too--it had more personality and a lot of memories in it, though I'm not sure if that would make it better or worse for them.  Mostly I want them to have a home they can come back to and consider as a home.  The bunker is a beautiful set, and sometimes serves the narrative.  I like it, and (as I said before) I hope they can come up with some stories from it.  

 

About the MoL--I tend to ignore the "hero legacy" because it doesn't seem to come up very often.  I liked the idea of a hunter network, to be part of something bigger than just them and John, but to me, the MoL is simultaneously too much and not enough, if that makes sense.  

[catrox14]

This is kind of beside the point of the bunker (except when it comes to taste and why I think the bunker is a bad fit for them in general, I guess), but I don't think that Sam is nerdier than Dean. I think Sam is just more uptight, focused, and Type A than Dean. I think Dean is actually "nerdier," in that he seems more drawn toward collecting minutia or trivia and reading/watching stuff for fun. Dean's taste seems to run a little more traditionally "nerdy" than Sam's, too. The man watches anime porn, ffs. He seems to know and have an opinion on every song in the universe recorded between 1967 and 1987, although he apparently had never heard Taylor Swift until he wound up on some random bus in S9 (?). He quotes and makes references to music/movies/cultural stuff pretty much constantly. A lot of entertainment that he likes seems like it's about diving into a whole imaginary world, too (I include the anime porn in that!). Dean isn't "dorky" at all, but I do think he's pretty "nerdy." TBH I like that about him -- I find it charming.

 

OTOH, Sam can be relatively "dorky" and awkward, but I think he's actually not "nerdy" at all. (Which is why I found it weird that they made it a ~thing~ that Sam nerds out over serial killers. I mean come on. He doesn't seem to nerd out about literally ANYTHING else, and of all things, THAT is the subject he's into as an escape/hobby outside of their work (which is also hunting down and killing monsters, making the serial killer thing bizarrely redundant and work-related aside from being kind of random)? It just doesn't ring true to me. YMMV. I stand by my opinion that Sam would be a lot more likely to nerd out over fitness stuff, if he were liable to nerd out about anything. Fitness stuff plays more into his control issues and I can see him liking the physical intensity and focus involved in it. But that's just my random fanwank about the character, lol).

 

Anyway, how that relates to the bunker is:  even though it's a beautiful set, I don't think that it hits the right note for the guys. Imo it would actually be better if it WEREN'T so well-equipped and gorgeous. Honestly, I would prefer if it were some random abandoned trailer or even Bobby's house or someplace else that nobody else would ever look at or bother with -- that they nevertheless decided to make their own, and that eventually became their "home base" organically. In general, I wish that their "home" reflected their personalities more. They've tried to put somewhat of a personal stamp on the bunker, but I just don't see them as "luxurious batcave" kind of men, so even that falls pretty flat to me.

 

But I also hate the whole Men of Letters thing, which seems to be a very unpopular opinion. I hate the guys being part of some hero aristocracy and inheriting a treasure trove. Idk, it just rubs me the wrong way. Also, part of the premise of the show was that they were brought up in the life, and inherited John's journal; imo, by doubling down on that idea by also having them be "pedigreed" and having them inherit a cornucopia of monster-fighting stuff, the show trivialized/undermined that. YMMV.

 

 

Imo, it's not ironic -- the Lair is boring precisely because it's too perfect. Whatever happens there is not going to feel dynamic because the Lair is too orderly and complete for it to set the stage for the resourcefulness, adventurousness, and ingenuity that creates dynamism. That orderliness, completeness, timelessness, and perfection of the Lair all create a feeling of "death" there, to me.

 

I don't think it is "too perfect" and that's part of why I find it interesting. 

 

We found out pretty quickly that the Men of the Letters  were not all they were cracked up to be in all cases. They were alternately smart, snobby and wackadoodle as evidenced by Magnus and his zoo. They didn't know everything. And they are no better than hunters. What it did get them was a treasure trove of info and a roof over their heads.

 

There was some initial pride IMO on Sam's part and Dean was a skeptic but they also learned just how bigoted the Men of Letters were towards hunters. It didn't erase their past as hunters or how hunting shaped their lives. They still wear plaid and three layers. They still value what being a hunter is in the world. Dean has some new music to listen too and 70 year old scotch to drink. 

 

Nothing magical happened because they found out they are Men of Letters. It's just given them access to things they didn't have before because they were hunters. I think it's kind of amusing that being Chosen Vessels of Archangels is perfectly reasonable but being member by birth into an organization formed by men is a bridge too far.

Edited April 24, 2016 by catrox14

[Myrelle]

Anyway, how that relates to the bunker is:  even though it's a beautiful set, I don't think that it hits the right note for the guys. Imo it would actually be better if it WEREN'T so well-equipped and gorgeous. Honestly, I would prefer if it were some random abandoned trailer or even Bobby's house or someplace else that nobody else would ever look at or bother with -- that they nevertheless decided to make their own, and that eventually became their "home base" organically. In general, I wish that their "home" reflected their personalities more. They've tried to put somewhat of a personal stamp on the bunker, but I just don't see them as "luxurious batcave" kind of men, so even that falls pretty flat to me.

 

I totally understand this reasoning behind not liking it. Before it's introduction, I used to think that the Winchesters might someday start a small community of hunters who lived in relative seclusion somewhere, but yes, I pictured it as more rustic, like Bobby's  places were. I also think that the LOL and the MoL were both created with the thought that the Winchesters ARE more than just your average, run of the mill hunters on this show, though. And yeah, that kind of rubbed me the wrong way at first, but then I saw Dean geeking out over the weapons in the dead guy robe and I was sold on it. I still like the idea of the hunting community with the Winchesters as leaders, though; maybe if they ever decide to do away with the Bunker they could take them back to their roots that way.

[ahrtee]

I totally understand this reasoning behind not liking it. Before it's introduction, I used to think that the Winchesters might someday start a small community of hunters who lived in relative seclusion somewhere, but yes, I pictured it as more rustic, like Bobby's  places were. I also think that the LOL and the MoL were both created with the thought that the Winchesters ARE more than just your average, run of the mill hunters on this show, though. And yeah, that kind of rubbed me the wrong way at first, but then I saw Dean geeking out over the weapons in the dead guy robe and I was sold on it. I still like the idea of the hunting community with the Winchesters as leaders, though; maybe if they ever decide to do away with the Bunker they could take them back to their roots that way.

Or, conversely, if they ever *do* get a community of trusted hunters, they could set up the bunker as a command center (which is how I think the MoL used it) and a home base for the boys.  (And I think they would like the idea of the MoL turning in their graves at having a horde of hunters using their resources.)  Of course, it should have been Bobby as the head of the command center, with the boys having their own rooms and coming and going on jobs.  Maybe that's the way the show will end?

[Demented Daisy]

Or, conversely, if they ever *do* get a community of trusted hunters, they could set up the bunker as a command center (which is how I think the MoL used it) and a home base for the boys.  (And I think they would like the idea of the MoL turning in their graves at having a horde of hunters using their resources.)  Of course, it should have been Bobby as the head of the command center, with the boys having their own rooms and coming and going on jobs.  Maybe that's the way the show will end?

 

I once suggested that, except with Sheriff Jody.

[Aeryn13]

Singer once pretty much flat-out said that the MOL was introduced as a concept  with Sam in mind, you know, the "sophisticated, brainy" side of things. The writers couldn`t just very well exclude Dean entirely from it because if Sam is tied to it via genetics, then so is Dean. 

 

And they were initially very enamored with their shiny new bunker set that held like all the mysteries of the universe. But other than doing a random story with it here and there, it wasn`t really planned out to be a big thing. And that must have dawned on them once the shine came off. These days, it`s IMO a permanent set they can use. 

 

It`s not totally unlike Kripke and the roadhouse. He introduced it but then later was pretty candid about losing interest fast and even hating it. So, it went boom. The current writers won`t do that because the bunker set has now a certain sense of complacency to it. Same goes for the production side of things. 

 

That`s why I can`t get attached to the bunker like other permanent sets in other shows where I feel, even if the location doesn`t play a major role in the story (I mean, of course it`s gonna be mucho different for a place the show is named after like Star Trek ships/stations of Babylon 5), both the characters and the writers have some emotional attachment to it themselves and that comes through onscreen. 

 

For me it`s fine that the Winchesters have the bunker for convenience. But they don`t make me feel that they consider it a home really nor do I feel that way myself. It`s a TV set and nothing else to me. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

Despite Sam's amnesia in s8, Sam DID live at college in the dorms and with Jess in an apt so he got at least 3 years of normal living as a young adult. But as a teenager and adult, Dean has only ever lived out of the Impala, the boys home, in motels, Bobby's house on occasion and with Lisa in her house.

 

This is the first time since he was a little boy that Dean has had a space to really call his own that is not stolen or under false pretenses. They are not squatting in a hovel. He has a rightful place to live there because of his name and status as a Legacy and I kind of love that. That's why I was so upset when the Stynes invaded it and were going to burn it down.

[MysteryGuest]

I loved Ellen, Jo and Ash, but the Roadhouse itself held no real appeal for me.  It was just a bar.  It was never a home for Sam and Dean.  Bobby's house was a bit different, because they did actually stay there on occasion and quite a few episodes took place there.  But Bobby's house would never have been the same without Bobby.  I still hate that they felt they needed to kill him off.  Especially since they bring him back all the time, anyway. 

 

The bunker is home, and the only real home they've had.  Dean had Lisa's house for a year, and Sam had his dorm time with Jess, but other than that, they've never had a home.  I like that they have one now.  And the fact that it's practically a bat cave just makes it that much cooler.

 

Edit to add...Catrox, I seem to be echoing your posts today.  It took me 10 minutes to write 2 paragraphs because my neighbor just stopped in for a few minutes.

Edited April 24, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[AwesomO4000]

And that points a HUGE problem in the shift of the show from how it portrayed Dean early on to the dumbing down of Dean over the years and as dictacted by plot.

 

Back in s1 and s2 especially, Dean was always reading. Studying. He was not adverse to research. He enjoyed it. And Dean CLEARLY was a reader because he knew the difference between Vonneguts books. He was adept enough with computers. Frank taught him how to hack better.   At the beginning of s8, Dean found an app to translate languages and he was so proud of it. Yet Sam mocked him for it. Just like Sam mocked Dean is s1 with the EMF detector Dean made. I think those moments really stung Dean and left Dean thinking Sam thought Dean was stupid or something. And I think Dean deep down admired Sam for going to college. He didn't like how it happened though.

 

Taken to the "All Episodes..." thread.

 

I think finding out he was a Legacy was a source of pride that maybe he didn't really think was a thing for him.  I think he became less enamored when he found out from Henry how the MoL were pretty much bigots towards hunters. They thought they were apes. But I think Dean does love the books, the records, the liquor all of it.  I think that's why he's still okay with living there.

 

I think also as you said above, that it's somewhere they can feel like they deserve to be, not someplace they've had to steal time in, or squat in, or pay for with credit card fraud.

 

 

For me, I like the bunker for all of the reasons that you (and MysteryGuest, ahrtee, Binns, and Myrelle) have given, but it was cemented for me for sure at the beginning of season 10. When Sam was missing Dean, I liked that he was able to go into Dean's room and find things that meant "Dean" to him. That he could go there and sit on Dean's bed, look at Dean's stuff, and maybe get some strength or determination from that. Similarly, I liked when Dean went into Sam's room and messed with his stuff, because even when Sam was away, Dean could still go to Sam's room and take out his annoyance in a brotherly fashion.

 

Besides Dean was just so darn happy now that his mattress "remembers him." Hee.

[rue721]

I heard this song on the radio yesterday and it made me think of the bunker:

 

[mertensia]

If they're going to be in the Bunker I'd love for one of them to find the files on the Winchesters.