S05.E08: Homeward Bound

[Hecate7]

I mean, it's no surprise Carolina has PPD, she already had depression. Her first episode on this show she was a very erratic personality and I believe she injured herself at the end of the episode. Hannah and Adam came home from Hannah's birthday and went into the bathroom and Carolina was in there holding a broken glass and bleeding, it was never clear if she did it on purpose but I feel like the show might have been implying that she did it herself. So, it makes sense to me. 

 

I thought we saw her crush the glass. Caroline has always had problems. It was amazing to me that she held up as long as she did.

[Hecate7]

He also at one point said that he wasn't attracted to Marnie. Back when he was with Shosh, and Marnie moved in with them after her big fight with Hannah and losing her job, the three of them were brainstorming about what job Marnie could do next. Shosh suggested that she could do a "pretty person job", and Marnie was like "really, you guys think I'm attractive?" and Ray said "well, I'm not attracted to you because I know you". And after the first time they slept together, Ray asked Marnie to "keep it on the DL", and it was Marnie who kept chasing him down for sex. It seems like Ray only started "loving" Marnie after Desi had entered the picture and Marnie dropped Ray like a hot potato.

 

 

I think it was a case of Ray being in denial. He was really eager to get the song that broke up Charlie and Marnie out there. He already wanted Marnie, that early on. He said he wasn't attracted to her, but he always was.

[WhosThatGirl]

I thought we saw her crush the glass. Caroline has always had problems. It was amazing to me that she held up as long as she did.

I couldn't remember, you may be right, I just remember seeing her with blood all over her hand and Hannah screaming, "WHAT DID YOU DO!??!?!" because you know, she was freaked out. As I would be too.

 

I think even when Ray was "hating" Marnie, he had an attraction to her, but with Hannah I never got that vibe. Also Ray went to Marnie after they first hooked up, he came over to her house with coffee and they watched real housewives and then they went out to eat and he said he wanted to spend time with her. And yes, he did break it off because I think he wanted to not be having a secret hookup with her. 

[heatherchandler]

OMG! How did I not already know this? This is the most brilliant thing I've ever read. That's marvellous.

I'd heard this, but it didn't work at all when I tried it. They wriggle way too much. A facecloth works better.

[Hecate7]

To be honest, I didn't take her letter to be a suicide note. I know what it said, but I thought that was more "Sometimes I have these horrible thoughts and I think it's better if I leave because I'm freaked out by them" than "I'm off to fling myself off the Brooklyn bridge". Her letter was still unsettling, but after having watched the episode twice, it seemed to me that she was having the conversation she should've had in person with Laird. I could very well be wrong, but that's the impression I got.

 

What possible reason would there be, for talking to anyone in person about it? Explain to me why anyone should ever do that? Especially if they happen to share your bizarrely judgemental attitude about depression, suicide, and mental illness? Best case scenario Laird calls someone to take Caroline away, but they can't afford for her to be hospitalized and Laird can't afford for the police to walk into the apartment, so that's not happening. Worst case scenario Laird freaks out and is worse than Caroline, which is exactly what happened. The note was quite obviously a suicide note and meant to be read after Caroline was long gone and everyone could see that they'd gotten along just fine without her for months.

 

If a new mom is irritable with her spouse, it could be PPD, it could just be a Saturday.

 

No. There's being irritable, and then there's wanting to kill yourself and your baby. These are actually two different things. There's being kind of depressed and feeling bad, and then there's wanting to kill yourself and your baby, which is VERY specific. I don't think Caroline just walked off because it was Saturday. I don't think she was bored and "wanted out." You don't write a note if you are just bored and want out, particularly not a note that reassures everyone that "this is all for the best." People don't do that. People who are just shallow and stupid and want to wander off, don't bother justifying it beforehand to anyone. They just go and do what they feel like doing. 

 

This isn't the first treatment of an illness that Dunham appears to have written with a textbook in one hand and a real sufferer on the other end of the phone or online. Adam's alcoholism, Jessa's addiction, and Hannah's OCD were all written very carefully and accurately. In a comedy of this nature, house fires, funerals, even the death of a character such as John Cameron Mitchell's, are treated irreverently and played for laughs. Adam getting hit by a car was played for laughs, so why not OCD, PPD, anxiety, or other ailments? Sure, sometimes it's going to backfire and be "funny as a crutch," but sometimes it's going to land and make people laugh about this stuff the same way we used to laugh at Tom and Jerry, which was pretty horrific and gory stuff if it hadn't been a cartoon.

[Petunia13]

I think it's difficult to assign the standards or values you would for a normal person to one who is chemically imbalanced or mentally deficient.

I mean its nice to say. Oh they should do this or a decent (whatever) would do that. But they aren't everyone else. Just like an underweight short flatfooted geek isn't going to automatically make varsity football. Maybe with hard work and training and focus they could. Also when people have a problem that affects their mentality and emotions - logic and reasoning is very distorted and erratic. I thought it was clear for a long time Caroline was insane and had a lot of trouble with decision making.

[represent]

Didn't Caroline a few seasons ago, when she first showed up, well that's when I first saw her, slit her wrists? 

 

Why do I remember her going into Hannah's bathroom, stripping down naked, or at least she had her panties off, and then Adam/Hannah finding her standing there with blood running from her wrists. Or maybe she was standing there half-naked threatening to slit her wrists.

 

Did this not happen?

 

Because if you missed that display as a viewer I could see not having the history on this character's mental illness. But I think a scene like this happened, which is why I've always understood that she was mentally fragile. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by represent

[chocolatine]

Didn't Caroline a few seasons ago, when she first showed up, well that's when I first saw her, slit her wrists? 

 

Why do I remember her going into Hannah's bathroom, stripping down naked, or at least she had her panties off, and then Adam/Hannah finding her standing there with blood running from her wrists. Or maybe she was standing there half-naked threatening to slit her wrists.

 

Did this not happen?

 

It did. My recollection - which might be wrong - is that she cut the palm of her hand rather than her wrist, but Hannah and Adam did find her half-naked in the bathroom holding a shard of glass and bleeding from her hand. Caroline was very ill even before she got pregnant, and my understanding is that the hormonal rollercoaster of pregnancy and childbirth can exacerbate pre-existing mental illness. So in a way, what Caroline experienced after childbirth was probably even more severe than "normal" PPD experienced by otherwise healthy women. That's not to diminish the severity of PPD, only to give an idea of the bad state Caroline must have been in before she left.

[ReadMeLattice]

You see her break the glass.

[Hecate7]

And all he said was a couple "fuck you's" and that she was rude as he drove away. Didn't prolong the confrontation, didn't call her names...I'd forgive someone for much more than that even if they were just grumpy and had no real reason.

I did think the character was strangely and unevenly written. A guy who is vehemently against any kind of porn and is highly worried about what's appropriate and a tad jealous masturbates to an entire album of naked ex girlfriend photos and doesn't see anything off about it? A guy who seems very willing to put up with and forgive Hannah's crap literally rips her own student's paper out of her hand over a couple of grammar mistakes? Every week I was unsure as to what we were supposed to think about Fran.

 

I totally didn't get that Fran had any anger problems, despite what Lena says. He is very worried about what is appropriate. He's not down with Hannah necking with her gay friend in front of him and he doesn't like her flashing her crotch--I wouldn't call that jealous, I'd call that normal and polite. Even a nice poly guy might be upset at his partner flashing the boss, and most monogamish guys really don't like to watch you neck with someone else.

 

What I got, was Hannah being insanely hypocritical. She cheated on Fran with a woman at camp, she makes out with her ex in front of him, she flashes her cooch at work, but she deletes his stash off of his phone. Hannah is just awful, really, and needs to be single forever.

 

Fran's not against all porn. He's against most porn, because not all of it is consensual, many of the women posing are being exploited, or are drug-addicted, etc...It sounded to me like Fran simply can't enjoy himself if he's wondering how this woman got onto his computer screen or into that magazine or whatever. He doesn't want to worry about things like human trafficking, or sexual abuse, or underaged girls, or the fact that ALL porn models are just going through the motions for the money, and what they're doing has nothing at all to do with what turns them on. I sympathize--if I were a guy I probably wouldn't be able to get into porn either, because it shows you girls doing things they really don't usually want to do in bed, things that look good for the camera but which aren't actually doing a thing for the woman. I thought his solution was sort of clever--consensually obtained images of former girlfriends. But I didn't quite believe him at the time because it just sounded too good to be true. IF they were consensually obtained photos of exes, they are unreplaceable, and what Hannah did was unforgivably selfish and stupid. If not, then Fran's got some other issues which remain unexplored by the story, but that doesn't make anything Hannah did in their relationship the right thing to do.

[taanja]

Maybe Hannah is Lena Dunham if she acted on every impulse and had no filter. Maybe LD thought such a character would be entertaining and make for great TV.

In some articles, they compare her to Larry David, no?

Hannah is one of my all time favorite TV characters. I thought this episode was hilarious. Loved the BJ in the coffee truck and Ray crashing it.

Watching a TV show where the characters are NOT exaggerated would be like...watching real life. I am surrounded by real life all the day long. I live in reality. I like that Hannah (Lena) plays a total mess of a character. I fell off the couch laughing when she flashed her pussy! GOD! How many times in my life would I have loved to be able to do such a thing and suffer no consequences???

Luckily TV characters can be bold and terrible and hot messes. That's entertainment folks! IMO

[Zima]

I'm 36 years old, and I have never felt maternal towards anything, nor have I felt my "biological clock" "ticking". I think the whole biological clock thing is a crock of shit anyway. Society expects women to have children, so many women who otherwise wouldn't care to have any end up feeling obligated to do so.  I do like children in small doses, when I'm mentally prepared for them.  In this episode, I was totally on Jessa's side.   If my boyfriend were to suddenly expect me to help him with a baby, I'd be like, "Peace out, sucka!"  and bail until the baby was gone.  If a baby spit up on me like that, I would lose my shit. The baby didn't need any help at the moment. Set it down and help your girlfriend, you idiot. 

Hannah is the worst, and I would hate her IRL.  However, she is comedy gold as a T.V. character. 

Lisa Bonet (sp?) looked good, but her character is kind of a bitch.  Marnie looks way better to me, but to each their own. Typical of Desi to move on so quickly.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Zima

[qtpye]

I always though Bonet was beautiful, but I am not a fan of her overly hippie/granola look.  However, if it is true to how she is, more power to her.

I think Allison Williams is pretty.  Marnie is definitely the type of pretty person that gets less attractive the more you get to know her.