Feed The Beast - General Discussion

[candall]

Ack!  I just recorded the finale and discovered I missed this episode.  You all caught me up pretty well on the action, except there's one thing I'm confused about--there's a lot of discussion here about Dion vs. Tommy as a "custodial parent."  I know the question of paternity is part of the show, but is there really anything going on show-wise about Dion raising TJ or is that strictly hypothetical?

 

I have to defend Dion a little bit against the Good Time Charlie characterization.  The last episode I saw ended with Dion knocking on Tooth Fairy's door to turn down the impressive new restaurant opportunity.  He said he was going to stick it out with Tommy, even though Tommy had just blasted him and rebuked their friendship.  That's not really standard behavior for someone who splits when the going gets rough.

In fact, when I think back, Dion hasn't been having a whole helluva good time, with that maniac threatening to plier out his teeth every time he turns around and demanding he produce six grand every few days.  Seems like the path of least resistance would have been to just scarper out to LA and get a chef gig.  Plenty of coke and pretty girls on the other coast for those in search of the unadulterated GT Charlie responsibility-free lifestyle.

[qtpye]

Does anyone know if this is going to be renewed?

I sometimes hear that the first season of  a show sometimes has two endings in the can.  One ending if the series is renewed and another if the first season is the last season.  This felt like it was a final ending, which was rather sad.  We see Tommy realize the dream of the restaurant was destroyed...again.

I guess we will never know who killed TJ's mother or if anyone survived the blast.  I do not think this show has enough critical clout to get another season...the AV club even stopped reviewing it.

I think it had potential, but not enough focus.  There was too much going on and every episode ended with some type of tragedy.

Edited August 3, 2016 by qtpye

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, candall said:

I know the question of paternity is part of the show, but is there really anything going on show-wise about Dion raising TJ or is that strictly hypothetical?

It's strictly hypothetical.  I think it's just that Dion seems to be more aware of TJ's needs than Tommy because he's still grieving over Rie.

[Ohwell]

I have a feeling this show won't be renewed and that's too bad because it was beginning to grow on me.

I don't see how anyone survived that final blast of fire.   

[Ohwell]

I wonder if the producers got word that the show wasn't going to be renewed, because that final blast really did make it seem like this was the series finale.

[riverheightsnancy]

43 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I have a feeling this show won't be renewed and that's too bad because it was beginning to grow on me.

I don't see how anyone survived that final blast of fire.   

 

43 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I have a feeling this show won't be renewed and that's too bad because it was beginning to grow on me.

I don't see how anyone survived that final blast of fire.   

I didn't see it that way, but I was half watching during the second explosion at the end. I thought, maybe they have made it out the back. Still HATE the Social Worker. She is NOT the only person who would be dealing with that situation. The Principal, the Superintendant, the Police.  Why should she automatically suspect TJ? This other kid has been a problem. She believes the bully kid when he lies, but is doubtful when TJ lies. Her whole thing, I am around kids, I know when they lie, well too bad. You couldn't see from all your time around kids that TJ was suffering? You couldn't see that he was terrified to be at school? You couldn't see that he is being pushed and is at the edge? Fuck you. Terrible representation of school counselors and the process. It is not just one person on that level. 

[Ohwell]

38 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

I thought, maybe they have made it out the back.

I hope you're right.  Hadn't thought about that.  Still, they didn't look like they were moving fast enough to get away from that blast in time.  If the show is renewed, then of course they all lived.

[candall]

Oh, hardy har, the actors willing to sign reasonable contracts survive. 

 

I think the chance for renewal is decent--considering the state of summer drama.  Fear the Walking Dead, Queen of the South, Preacher, Dead of Summer, Outcast, Animal Kingdom, Outsiders. 

Suits is way past sell-by date, Rizzoli is over.  UnReal had a horrible sophomore season, Murder In The First is a big yawn and they just killed the best character on Tyrant.  That leaves The Americans and Major Crimes.

 

I'd definitely go another round with the cokehead, the droopy alcoholic, the PTSD kid and the gay sadist with the dental fixation and the big, big dreams.

: )

[Ohwell]

If the show is renewed...

- It occurred to me that stupid Pilar might have forgotten to pay the insurance premiums on the restaurant.

- I hope she gets killed by the Tooth Fairy.

- I hope stupid social worker/counselor gets fired.

[candall]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

It occurred to me that stupid Pilar might have forgotten to pay the insurance premiums on the restaurant.

Ha, I kept thinking, through the whole the finale, that about 75% of the tension on this show comes from stupid Patrick not having insurance on his restaurant.  And he never accepts any personal responsibility for that!

[Madding crowd]

The show has grown on me and I hope it comes back. I would feel sad if it ended with idea that TJ might have been killed, just when he has a breakthrough which allows him to talk. I really don't understand the reason for bombing the restaurant. I can see Patrick wanting to kill Dion since he wasn't getting his money back quickly enough, but bombing Thirio and killing innocent people will only draw attention without offering any type of financial compensation. It would also likely cause Dion's uncle and Tommy's dad to exert any type of influence they may have. So why?

I also want to know who/why killed Rie. I can't believe Patrick is behind all this. As to the comment above that Dion can't be a "Good Time Charlie" because he is staying put; he really doesn't have a choice at this point. I do think he loves being a chef and loves Tommy and TJ, but the other part is he has no where to go. If he is not trying to earn money to pay back Patrick, he will be dead. Hiding out in a motel somewhere would still get him killed. I do think he is a caring person, just not a trustworthy one. The fact that he slept with his friend's wife is just one example. 

[Rapunzel]

19 hours ago, candall said:

Ha, I kept thinking, through the whole the finale, that about 75% of the tension on this show comes from stupid Patrick not having insurance on his restaurant.  And he never accepts any personal responsibility for that!

Most states require you to have insurance - you can cannot operate, and definitely cannot get a liquor license, without it. I suspect Patrick's restaurant did have insurance, however if the fire was determined to be arson or deliberately set, most policies won't pay out. As Dion went to jail for burning the place down, they clearly determined it was not accidental and the insurance company most likely did not pay out due to this.

I do hope there is another season of this show, especially now that TJ has finally started to talk. The actor did a decent job with just facial expressions and gestures, but it was getting a bit tiring.

Dion also needs to get some sort of comeuppance. He has used everyone he has been in contact with. He manipulated Tommy into opening the restaurant in the first place by playing on the fact that it was Rie's dream and her design only to use the restaurant, in part, to steal from to pay the money he owed the mobster and also to give the mobster a place to launder his money. Keep in mind that Tommy also only agreed to this before he knew Dion slept with Rie. I don't think Tommy would have ever agreed to go into business with Dion if he had known this before. He basically said as much when, after he found out about the affair, he would agree to keep the restaurant open for a period of time, allow the staff to find other jobs, but then they would close it down and the two would go their separate ways.

 Dion is out for Dion and I don't think he is capable of having any genuine feelings towards anyone else. Even how he acts with TJ seems a bit staged. However, I think he has as many feelings for TJ as he is capable of having for another human being, but he only has to do it in small doses. He is not TJ's full time parent (he missed a huge chunk of his life while he was in prison as well) and he would never be capable of it. Dion would eventually start to treat TJ just like he treats everyone else and, more than likely, use him for his own purposes as TJ gets older. I also hate to think of what will happen if he is at all involved in his lawyer's child's life. His reaction when she told him that her Father (and the Grandfather of his child) had died wasn't all that comforting nor sympathetic. You could pretty much tell that he was just thinking about how it would affect him, which is all Dion ever does.

I am definitely not saying that Tommy is at all perfect. The guy has his issues and flaws. To me, though, it seems at least Tommy knows he is flawed to a certain extent, is trying to get help (grief group), admitted he is drinking too much and said he was trying to cut back,  trying to be there for TJ (not ratting him out on the gun thing, though that not may have been the best parental decision), trying to comfort him and let him know it was okay if he felt guilty about framing the bully, and generally trying to do the right thing. He did have TJ in therapy other than the school counselor as well but, as he stated in one of the first episodes, he couldn't continue given how expensive it was (he wasn't working then and is driving around in a beat up old Volvo with a mismatched door) but knew that TJ still needed help and was hoping the school could help. The school counselor idiot that has been assigned to TJ has done nothing but make things worse - even nearly accusing Tommy of hitting TJ when it was really the little bully.

Dion, on the other hand, is a mob associate, a thief, a complete cokehead who won't admit it (we've never seen him even mention trying to go to an NA meeting or stopping the coke yet he badgers Tommy about his drinking - not that Tommy's drinking is a good thing either, but Dion should not be so hypocritical). Dion is also an arsonist who spent time in prision, slept with his best friend's wife, guilted his best friend into opening a restaurant that he is stealing from and is, in part, a front for a crimimal enterprise, etc. Amongst these two flawed people, Tommy is less so and is at least making an effort in certain areas. He is also doing this all while grieving his wife who died less than a year ago and then finding out that his best friend slept with her and that there may be a chance TJ isn't even his. Dion, on the other hand, can't seem to understand that he's gotten himself into his current situation and can't even fathom that abusing his friends, setting up the restaurant under false pretenses and using it for illegal acts which puts everyone that works there at risk, is wrong at all. As long as Dion saves his own ass, he doesn't care who or what gets destroyed in the process.

Another example of Dion being just on team Dion is that when he torched the other restaurant, all of his friends lost their livelihood as well. We still don't know his exact motivations for doing it, but if it was just to get at Patrick then he could have found another way that wouldn't have put his friends out of work. I am amazed they came back to work for him, though maybe they thought that since Dion had "skin in the game" this time and that Tommy was also an owner, in addition to the job market being quite tough in that area for cooks/kitchen staff (I think many of them mentioned not having regular, full time work for some time), that taking the risk and earning some money was better than not getting a check at all. Also, no one seems to deny that Dion is a great a chef and he clearly has talent, so they were probably also hoping that he could really build a name for himself and bring them all up with him.

No matter how talented he is, he needs to start thinking about people other than himself. If he burned down Thirio, then clearly he's learned nothing and, if he was hoping to use the money to pay off Patrick, he is likely out of luck and may very well go back to prison as they are definitely going to dig into this to see if the fire was deliberate given his history. However, something tells me Dion wasn't the culprit in this case. I'm leaning towards Patrick (though again, probably too likely) or Aiden. Aiden, we know, has money troubles. However, he is dying, so that makes me question whether or not he would do it unless he did it just to frame Dion and keep Patrick out of TJ's life. Or perhaps it was that half-wit, half-crazy Pilar. Who knows what she is capable of?

Edited August 4, 2016 by Rapunzel

[thuganomics85]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being either Aidan (or, more exact, an associate of his) or even Pilar, who blew up Thirio, because I felt like there had to be reasons they briefly focused on both of them having to leave the art show early.  That said, I would think if it was either one of them, they would have made sure neither Tommy or TJ were around, so maybe it will be Woichik, the most obvious choice.  Or someone else.  Hell, watch this all be Marisa, because she's pissed at Dion.  It can be anyone!

So, all of TJ's drawings was to help him remember what happened to Rie, and he finds out that it wasn't his fault and the accident wasn't an accident.  And he is finally speaking again.  That's good... assuming they all got out of there in time.  But who would want to kill Rie?

Woichik totally knows it was Dion and his uncle who robbed him, so I don't know what they are going to do.  He's getting more and more violent and unpredictable. 

Aidan has seemed to have accepted the fact he is dying and now wants to take Woichik out with him, after finding out he threatened TJ.  I would like to see those characters meet at least, and get Michael Gladis and John Doman playing off one another, which should be fun.

Show isn't the greatest, but it's gotten to the point that I will watch it if comes back.  I know the ratings haven't been so hot, but AMC rarely kills a show after one season, so I can see it making the cut.

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

It can be anyone

Maybe even the foodie critic that was still mad at Dion.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

Maybe even the foodie critic that was still mad at Dion.

But he didn't look that vicious to me.  But then maybe I'm wrong.  

Maybe it's the same person who killed Rie?  Someone who has a beef with Tommy instead of the usual suspect Dion.

[Dowel Jones]

Aha!  The lady who complained about the wine!

[Ohwell]

8 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Aha!  The lady who complained about the wine!

Well, she was really pissed at Tommy.  Heh.

[riverheightsnancy]

Aiden is the grandfather right? I don't think it is the grandfather. No way would he put TJ in harm's way. Not after the comment at the art show about taking care of one's family. I think it is a mysterious unknown and I think it will be linked to Rie's death. The end of the season left us with a mystery, so I think that new characters would be coming and it is purposeful that it is also a fire, because Dion will be (based on history) a major suspect. Maybe it was that other restaurant owner that Dion shit on? I think that they set it up that Dion has screwed so many people that there are a host of people it could be. No way was it the tooth fairy, he is in love with Dion, no way. I hope for a second season. The mystery will drive the story and now that TJ is talking that will be good. Now, if they are injured, I could see Tommy or TJ needing a blood transfusion, and of course, Tommy's blood won't be a match, so more on the paternity issue as well.  Someone else said that maybe Dion's blood won't match either, so that would make it more interesting as well. 

[qtpye]

I really wonder why the channel is being so cagey with announcing the cancellation or renewal of this show.  I am really hoping for a second season and see a lot of potential.

Halt and Catch Fire has a lot of issues first season, but improved with the seconds season, when they decided instead trying to create another male antihero drama, they should focus on the more interesting female characters.

[Rapunzel]

Aiden is Tommy's father and TJ's grandfather. I don't think it's likely that he is the culprit either. As I mentioned in my post above, yes, he is having money issues, but he is also dying so the only motive he would have had would have been to try to keep the Toothfairy and/or Dion away from TJ, though he could do that through other means and not risk the chance that TJ would be in the building when it went up.

I also don't think it was Dion. Given his background, he knows he would be the first person looked at.

There is a chance it could have been Pilar. I don't think she would have done it purposely unless there is darker side to her other than lying about a dead husband to pick up a guy Grief Group, but given that she has been shown to be a bit ditzy, maybe she did it accidentally.

Another outside possibility is Dion's lawyer. She may have assumed he played a part in her father being murdered by Patrick, however I don't think she would have done it if she knew people were in the building, though grief can affect people in strange ways.

Maybe it was Tommy, though he and TJ were both in the building when it happened and I can't see him putting TJ at risk unless he was so angry at Rie for cheating and the chance TJ might not be his that he just wasn't thinking right.

The Toothfairy may have done it as some kind of revenge for Dion torching his restaurant, and, even though he is in love with Dion, that may have motivated him even more as he knows he could never be with Dion. This is not just because Dion doesn't return his feelings but also because of his lifestyle and how it would look to his crew/family (I don't think they are aware of his sexual orientation - if they are, they haven't shown it and his Father most definitely is not likely to be aware of it other than, perhaps, subconsciously). If Patrick were found out, he would likely worry that they would lose even more respect for him as "boss" or possibly be usurped altogether - his Father is already trying to bring someone else on as his "right hand man." However, Patrick (Toothfairy) has to know he would be high on the suspect list as well, though I'm sure he has no shortage of "associates" that would do it for him and then he could later have said "associate" killed to ensure he didn't talk.

The explosion definitely could have been set by someone we haven't been introduced to yet as well, which is another reason I hope the show gets a second season. There are too many unanswered questions, even if they just expect us to think everyone died in the explosion, we still don't know what caused it. We also still don't know what TJ saw when his Mom was killed and now that he just started talking, it seems like a bad series finale - though of course there have been far worse out there.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Rapunzel

[meep.meep]

I was just sad that Pilar didn't have to dart back to the office for just a second.

The "explanation" for why Tommy didn't smell the gas was that the screen on the pass through was closed.  

So Dion gets the money to pay off Patrick, coincidentally from Patrick, and now it's going to go up in flames.  Hard work just doesn't pay off.

[riverheightsnancy]

54 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

The "explanation" for why Tommy didn't smell the gas was that the screen on the pass through was closed.  

 What do you mean by that? 

[meep.meep]

They kept showing the screen on the pass through being closed and Tommy right in front of that.  The kitchen with the gas pipe is behind the pass through.  So, it's not much of an explanation of why he couldn't smell the gas, but I think it's all we are going to get.  Hence "explanation".

[riverheightsnancy]

The gas diffuses in the air very rapidly, which is why if a person thinks they have a gas leak, they say to open all doors and windows and to get the hell out of there. That restaurant and kitchen has a lot of open space areas, so even though the kitchen is behind a pass through, it is not air tight at all.  Plus, because natural gas is actually odorless, it is mixed with a chemical additive which is a rank rotten egg smell to get people's attention.  That gas line was spewing the gas at 100%.  I think that he should have smelled something. Because the restaurant is such a large, open space, that may have been the reason that it didn't blow as fast. A small contained space is likely to blow quicker (with a spark or flame) because the gas can build up faster. The gas doesn't need an actually flame. The clicking on and off of a condenser in a refrigerator, or the heat from a dish washer (if hot enough) could create enough of a spark or static electricity and boom! My husband is a contractor so I have learned a little over the years about some of this stuff. ;) 

[Ohwell]

7 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

My husband is a contractor so I have learned a little over the years about some of this stuff. ;)

You've got a keeper! ; ) 

[Ms Lark]

Cancellation announced. So, I am assuming they all died in the explosion. Good enough, everyone was miserable!

[Ohwell]

Yes, everyone was miserable so maybe it's best they all died and the show got canceled.  At least it was quick.  

[Dowel Jones]

All that stolen wine, those $700 saute pans, not to mention the exquisite drawings in the kid's notebook.  Gone forever, without a clue. The horror, the horror. 

I claim dibs on the T in the Thirio sign, though (just for the hidden cocaine).

[Ohwell]

*I'm pretending the show is still going on*

I feel so bad for TJ, wish he had made it out of there, although he would have been truly messed up in the head anyway, losing his dad and Dion.  The grandpa will be gutted as well.

I'm just sorry we'll never know who or what caused the explosion.  I'm also sorry that Pilar wasn't in the building because she grated on my last nerve.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Ohwell
typos

[thuganomics85]

Man, canceled after one season, huh?  On AMC?  That's a rare honor.... er, distinction.  Off the top of my head, only other AMC shows that went that quickly were Rubicon and Low Winter Sun.  This is the same network that has renewed both Halt & Catch Fire and Turn, despite having basement-dwelling ratings.  In short, this is almost impressive.

This show definitely had some issues, but I do feel a bit bad for David Schwimmer, since I thought he had a bit of a resurgence going on, after his surprisingly good turn as Rob Kardashian on The People vs. OJ Simpson.  Hopefully, he'll get another shot.  Pretty confident that John Doman will be fine, since he's one of those actors who is always getting work.  Kind of curious about Eljiah Jacob's future.  He actually did some really good work with the physical acting and not being able to speak much.

Can't say I will miss Lorenza Izzo's wonky performance though.  Even from an eye-candy perspective, I vastly preferred Marisa/Erin Cummings.

Either way, fare thee well, Thiro and friends.  Maybe you continue to cook, steal wine, and snort cocaine in the television afterlife!  

[Pristine]

A month late, but I finally watched the last episode.  Maybe Patrick killed Rie, because he is in love with Dion.  And every time Tommy went towards the pass-through, I nearly yelled at the TV, wondering why he couldn't smell the gas.  

[Pristine]

This show definitely grew on me, and I'm disappointed that they aren't giving it another chance, but that's business.

[AmandaPanda]

On September 6, 2016 at 10:17 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Man, canceled after one season, huh?  On AMC?  That's a rare honor.... er, distinction.  Off the top of my head, only other AMC shows that went that quickly were Rubicon and Low Winter Sun.  This is the same network that has renewed both Halt & Catch Fire and Turn, despite having basement-dwelling ratings.  In short, this is almost impressive.

If it had critical support, it would have been renewed. I guess the low ratings and the general consensus that the show was pretty "meh" doomed it. 

It was getting better, though. Jim Sturgess was toning down his performance a lot or maybe I was just used to it by the end. I was really excited to see what would happen now that TJ was talking. Guess I'll never know now. 

[Ohwell]

I wonder if Netflix could pick it up?

[AmandaPanda]

I'm sure Netflix could, but I doubt that would happen. It doesn't have any sort of a vocal fan base. It doesn't have much critical acclaim. It doesn't have a huge name to draw people in. If people didn't watch it on AMC, there's no evidence that people would watch it on Netflix.

[Ohwell]

Yeah well maybe you're right.

[qtpye]

With everybody dying in the fire, this had got to have been one of the bleakest series I have ever watched.  This makes Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and Game of Thrones look like Disney Land.

I have a series that freshmen series have two endings for their first season.  If they get renewed only one person would die in the fire and we would be wondering who till the next season.  Then there is the abandon all hope ending, which is what the fire felt like since it did not seem plausible that anyone escaped.

At least TJ is with his mama now.

I am still disappointed with the cancellation, but not surprised.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

David Schwimmer & Sigal Avin discuss the  #ThatsHarassment campaign