S03.E12: Love is in the Heir

[IndianPaintbrush]

 

Whitney and Zach have their first ultrasound, the kids create a special anniversary dinner for Gil and Kelly, and Nathan lets the family know about a very important question.

Gil and Kelly were very gracious about their anniversary dinner being interrupted by a server every five seconds.  Not to mention Kelly helping to prepare it, lol.  

 

The Bates appear to give their kids a much lengthier "getting to know you" period than the Duggars, which is good.  I was even surprised to hear Nathan call Ashley his girlfriend.  I think by the time they get to courtship they are already pretty sure this will progress towards marriage.

 

Lawson was pinging my gaydar big time with his dramatic "protests" against marriage.

[woodscommaelle]

I always want what I can't have!  Description said this episode was an hour.  When it started, I thought 'ugh, I don't need an hour of this show.'  When 7:30 came and the show ended, I was expecting (and very much wanting) another episode.  Nope, Small Town Mayor.

 

Next week says it's an hour, too.  We shall see.

 

Are there any twins in that family?  Two of the three of Warden, Jackson and Isaiah (think these are the names) look like twins.  Never noticed the similarities until last night.

 

I can't tell Jed from Judson but they are so stinking cute I almost cannot handle it.

 

Yeah, I get a little vibe from Lawson, too.  No big deal.  Whatever he wants. 

 

I think one of the three youngest girls said 'choochons' or something similar for the word 'croutons' and it was cute as shit!

[cereality]

Now it's pretty clear why the Bates are ending up with such good matches -- they are dating like anyone else, even if they call it courting/getting to know you etc. Nathan called Ashley his girlfriend and so did Gil! It seemed like they are allowed to go see their boy/girlfriends as much as they want -- or can afford -- they don't need mommy and daddy's permission, though I guess they do need to bring siblings with them. More than that -- Nathan said he had been talking to Ashley every day for 6 months -- that is no different than any other couple, fundie or not, in a long distance relationship! And he spent an entire week with them for Thanksgiving going to all her relatives' homes - just like any other boyfriend. So by the time they get to "courting" -- it's just a formality and they know each other really really well and know this is what they want.

 

I think Gil and Kelly allow the kids to make up their own minds re their life choices. I mean Kelly asked whether Nathan would become a city boy or she'd become a country girl. Of course as parents, they wouldn't love for Nathan to move away, but if he had said -- you know, I don't think she can adjust to rural Tenn, I will move to NYC, I don't think they'd stop him. FWIW -- I don't think Nathan can handle NYC. He's so stunned by sharing a wall with another home (i.e. apartments) or that you can practically get a ticket for parking your car in your own driveway. But I do think he loves her and if she moves to rural Tenn. and once she gets over being young and in love and is miserable in a rural life in a non-diverse area, I can see him making some changes; I'm not suggesting that he'd move to NYC -- but I can see him moving to Knoxville or Nashville or even Chicago where his sister is in order for his wife's life to be more "normal" for her. Bc I do think they are both under estimating how hard it will be for a Latina from the Bronx with a huge family to move to nowhere Tenn; I lived in NYC for 10 yrs and I feel like New Yorkers always romanticize about getting out, living in a regular place or on open land -- but the reality is, they do miss NYC's vibrancy.

 

I see the courtship episode being cheesy. Looks like he wants to do the Rockefeller Center, Central Park etc. thing and those are considered totally touristy and most NY-ers don't go to those places; he'd do much better to chose her favorite non-touristy spot in the city.

[IndianPaintbrush]

Are there any twins in that family?  Two of the three of Warden, Jackson and Isaiah (think these are the names) look like twins.  Never noticed the similarities until last night.

Nope, no twins.  

 

A lot of people are skeptical that Ashley can adjust to rural TN, but she's got a good head on her shoulders.  It's not unimaginable that someone from NYC would eventually grow to like the country.  And she can take her culinary training anywhere - hopefully not just her own kitchen.

[cereality]

I didn't know she had culinary training -- that actually may work. They always show the family going out to restaurants, hotels/inns -- I don't think everything is right by their house, but it seems like a lot of this stuff is within 30-60 minutes. She could conceivably get a job which would make the adjustment easier for her as she'd have a chance to get to know people and make friends other than her sisters in law.

 

This family has come a long way since Zach's failed courtship which was a much more traditional -- watch her from afar, talk to her 3 times and ask her to court and get married in 3 months -- deal. He said that he was nervous talking to her and even sitting really close to her, so I think all of these changes are good for the family.

[woodscommaelle]

Anyone know how many siblings Ashley has?

[sr7698]

Now it's pretty clear why the Bates are ending up with such good matches -- they are dating like anyone else, even if they call it courting/getting to know you etc. Nathan called Ashley his girlfriend and so did Gil! It seemed like they are allowed to go see their boy/girlfriends as much as they want -- or can afford -- they don't need mommy and daddy's permission, though I guess they do need to bring siblings with them. More than that -- Nathan said he had been talking to Ashley every day for 6 months -- that is no different than any other couple, fundie or not, in a long distance relationship! And he spent an entire week with them for Thanksgiving going to all her relatives' homes - just like any other boyfriend. So by the time they get to "courting" -- it's just a formality and they know each other really really well and know this is what they want.

 

Moreover, at least on a prior episode, he brings Lawson when he goes and visits Ashley.  I wouldn't be surprised if Lawson does not follow them everywhere they go like a puppy dog and that Nathan and Ashley get quite a bit of time that is just the two of them.  

[SoCalAgain]

I noticed that Nathan said he spoke to Ashley every day, yet there was no mention of Gil or Kelly listening in. I really hope he is able to speak to her without an audience. That to me is just too weird

[Lisa418722]

I think Gil and Kelly acted like they were surprised when Nathan said he and Ashley had been talking every day.  It's refreshing that Gil and Kelly trust their kids after the Duggars not letting the kids even talk or text without being involved.

I'm from Middle TN (outside of Nashville) and I think I would have trouble living in Rocky Top because it's just a little too rural.  I'm living in Atlanta now and would love to live in a smaller town, but not Rocky Top small.  I think they might have plans to live in the area, but before too long, I wouldn't be surprised if they move to a larger city just because I think it would be harder on Ashley than what she thinks it would be.  Visiting a place and living there are totally different.  

[cereality]

I think Ashley will move to Rocky Top initially and frankly she's so in love now, that she'd probably follow him anywhere. Then when reality sets in and/or she wants a job at a big restaurant/hotel etc. (if she wants to use her culinary training), then I really think there may be a move to someplace like Nashville. I think the Bates sons treat/will treat their wives as equals and not take the -- I am the man of the house, I don't care what you want -- approach. And I see Gil and Kelly backing off on those things and not making them feel guilty or as if they need permission if they do want to move. I mean I'm sure they'd miss him like they miss Alyssa and Michaela, but I think they'll realize that he's a man who is doing what's best of his family.

[Steff]

I don't remember exactly where or when I read it, but I remember Kelly talking about how they changed the way they handled courting after Zack's disaster courtship.  That they had to let them get to know each other in more comfortable ways & without the pressure of everyone in the room staring at them.   I also remember that when Brandon came to visit Michaela, Kelly said the only rule was that they couldn't be alone in a room together.  Not that they couldn't have private conversations or have to have a chaperone listen to every word. They've even called the little booth/table nook the Courting Corner or something like that.   I could see them letting Nathan and Ashley have private conversations.  You'd have to if you want to get to know someone.  It's why the Duggar couples come off so stiff.  They don't know crap about each other. 

 

Kelly has also talked about when a kid gets married and moves out, that mom & dad rules no longer apply.  The couples make their own rules for their house.  So if some want a tv, that's their choice.  Like Alyssa wearing pants.  The Duggar couples seem to stay under Jim Bob's rules for eternity.  The Bates let their kids actually cleave and leave, not just paying it lip service. 

[Absolom]

Ratings:  250K viewers and a .08 rating. 

[Hero]

Where did Nathan and Ashley meet?

They make a cute couple. Hopefully Nathan is not overbearing and they have an equal marriage.

I don't understand why it's a big deal to do an over the top announcement that they are courting? Just do it, and when you get married, then you can do whatever over the top you want to do.

I remember when they showed Zack courting the first girl, and it was so awkward! They had nothing to talk about, and he seemed very intimidated by her.

He's lucky that he found Whitney. rhey seem so sweet together.

Has Whitney always worn skirts, or did she start wearing then when she met/ married Zack?

Edited April 2, 2016 by Suzy123

[andromeda331]

Whitney switched to skirts after she started dating or courting Zack. Before then she

wore pants.

[Bajovane]

Even though Nathan and Ashley were simply girlfriend and boyfriend, I was surprised at the handholding.  Of course, this is the Bates Family - same cult as the Duggs, but very different ways of going about it all.  I know with the Duggs, the kids are not allowed any handholding until engagement.  (Remember Michelle's reaction to Jill's holding Dericks hand as they walked in to announce the engagement).

This is a much healthier way to go about it - and yes, it is no surprise that the Bates kids are much more successful in choosing who they marry.

I sincerely hope none of the girls ever marry into the Duggar family - the life will get sucked out of them and I would hate to see that.

[BitterApple]

Even though the Bateses adhere to traditional gender roles, I don't get the vibe that they'd be misogynistic control-freak husbands a la Steve Maxwell or David Rodrigues. There was a scene last season where Zach was helping Whit prepare dinner, and the way they worked around each other was very natural, as if it was something they did all the time.

I haven't seen this episode yet but I watched the preview clips, and I don't understand why the family thinks it's odd that Lawson isn't married yet. He's still quite young, no? If anything I give him credit for admitting he's not ready rather than marry in haste and regret it later *cough, Bin Seewald, cough*.

[Hero]

Even though Nathan and Ashley were simply girlfriend and boyfriend, I was surprised at the handholding. Of course, this is the Bates Family - same cult as the Duggs, but very different ways of going about it all. I know with the Duggs, the kids are not allowed any handholding until engagement. (Remember Michelle's reaction to Jill's holding Dericks hand as they walked in to announce the engagement).

This is a much healthier way to go about it - and yes, it is no surprise that the Bates kids are much more successful in choosing who they marry.

I sincerely hope none of the girls ever marry into the Duggar family - the life will get sucked out of them and I would hate to see that.

For the preview next week, Ashley is laying her head on Nathan's shoulder. If any of the duggar girls did that, it be a scandal.

I like how the bateses want to get married because they actually love the person unlike the Duggars who only do it to get out of the house/have sex.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Suzy123

[andromeda331]

Don't forget Michelle nearly flipping out as Ben and Jessa held hands to say Grace at the beginning

of his whole set up for proposing. Or the Duggars trying to explain away Jill's front hug of Derick. I do

agree that the Bates couples seem much more relax together and its really nice to see. You can see

not only with Zach and Whitney but also Erin and Chad, Alyssa and John and Nathan and Ashley.

They really do like and love each other. I liked that the Bates recognized their courting rules didn't

work and changed them.

Edited April 3, 2016 by andromeda331

[cereality]

Even though the Bateses adhere to traditional gender roles, I don't get the vibe that they'd be misogynistic control-freak husbands a la Steve Maxwell or David Rodrigues. There was a scene last season where Zach was helping Whit prepare dinner, and the way they worked around each other was very natural, as if it was something they did all the time.

I haven't seen this episode yet but I watched the preview clips, and I don't understand why the family thinks it's odd that Lawson isn't married yet. He's still quite young, no? If anything I give him credit for admitting he's not ready rather than marry in haste and regret it later *cough, Bin Seewald, cough*.

While the previews may have seemed like that, the episode itself didn't show Gil or Kelly or anyone else acting like it was odd for Lawson to be single or pressuring him to hurry up and find the one. Nathan is 22, but Lawson is only 23. I believe Chad was around 25-26 when he married Erin; John was about 25 when he married Alyssa; and Zach was around 24-25 when he married as well. I think Brandon might have been younger bc he had just finished school. So if 25-26 is fine for their sons in law, I'm sure it's fine for Lawson too. In the episode, most of the "protesting" and talk re being the lone (single) ranger was from Lawson himself not from his sibs.

 

Kelly did say in a TH that she thinks some of the kids think a spouse holds back a career -- I think she might have meant Lawson and his music career; but she didn't seem judgy about it. Who knows what his dreams are/what he thinks will happen. Maybe he does think he can launch an album or two and go on a tour -- maybe as an opening act for a major artist. Maybe he wants to pursue that for 1-2 yrs and see if it works out for him -- let's be honest a single male has a lot more flexibility to do that bc it's no problem for him to drive God knows where for a show, stay in a crappy motel -- than it would be if he had a wife and 6 month old in tow. Or maybe he thinks he can get into a gig writing music/producing/behind the scenes -- and he wants to work on securing that and being available to move to Nashville if a job comes along. Hell maybe he realizes that in a fundie marriage he has to be able to support a wife right away and a baby often within 9 months and he financially doesn't want to "settle" into a landscaping gig right now just for money and would rather chase his music dreams while living on the homestead and picking up tree jobs for extra money. Good for him for realizing that he isn't ready yet and not just rushing into a courtship with the first girl he sees bc he feels it's expected.

[SoCalAgain]

I feel the comparisons between the Duggars and the Bateses illustrate that the Duggars may be fundie, but are primarily dysfunctional. Their dysfunction defines them way more than there fundie-ness. There is some deep down crazy going on in that family. The Bateses are fundie, yes, but also a normal family. They actually change and grow with what life throws at them, like we all do. There doesn't seem to be a one size fits all approach to rule making. I like them. Hopefully I won't get my bubble burst....

[Steff]

I feel the comparisons between the Duggars and the Bateses illustrate that the Duggars may be fundie, but are primarily dysfunctional. Their dysfunction defines them way more than there fundie-ness. There is some deep down crazy going on in that family. The Bateses are fundie, yes, but also a normal family. They actually change and grow with what life throws at them, like we all do. There doesn't seem to be a one size fits all approach to rule making. I like them. Hopefully I won't get my bubble burst....

I feel the same way.  I like them even tho they are fundies who are against everything I believe in and I would be the heathenest heathen to ever heathen (ya know what I mean) next to them.   But I still like them.  I feel like I would want to give Kelly a full on frontal, real sincere hug and then show off my pro-choice tshirt.  I love that Kelly and Gil actually do the parenting.  Kelly is actually teaching her daughters to cook.  I still can't even grasp that the Duggar brides can't frigging cook or clean.  I mean COME ON! Gil is the one who takes Jeb aside for the parenting.  Real parenting.  I wonder if Michelle has ever parented.  My brain is fried today, so I'm just making up my own phrases, sorry. I just know at some point they are going to do something ugly fundie that is going to burst my happy little rose colored bubble.

 

And I still can't get over how goofy kid Nathan turned into a hottie.  I didn't think Nathan would ever grow into his teeth and ears.  But damn!  Lawson alone could beat all the Duggar boys together, but add Nathan now and DAMN!  The Bates girls make the Duggar girls look homely.  Well, more than they usually do. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Steff

[Hero]

I feel the same way. I like them even tho they are fundies who are against everything I believe in and I would be the heathenest heathen to ever heathen (ya know what I mean) next to them. But I still like them. I feel like I would want to give Kelly a full on frontal, real sincere hug and then show off my pro-choice tshirt. I love that Kelly and Gil actually do the parenting. Kelly is actually teaching her daughters to cook. I still can't even grasp that the Duggar brides can't frigging cook or clean. I mean COME ON! Gil is the one who takes Jeb aside for the parenting. Real parenting. I wonder if Michelle has ever parented. My brain is fried today, so I'm just making up my own phrases, sorry. I just know at some point they are going to do something ugly fundie that is going to burst my happy little rose colored bubble.

And I still can't get over how goofy kid Nathan turned into a hottie. I didn't think Nathan would ever grow into his teeth and ears. But damn! Lawson alone could beat all the Duggar boys together, but add Nathan now and DAMN! The Bates girls make the Duggar girls look homely. Well, more than they usually do.

Lol! When I first saw this family, I always thought that Lawson was the better looking one, but Nathan definitely takes that win. Nathan has really pretty eyes and a nice body.

[graefin]

Lawson alone could beat all the Duggar boys together, but add Nathan now and DAMN! 

The problem with Lawson is that he's pretty and he knows it.

[Hero]

The problem with Lawson is that he's pretty and he knows it.

So true. He's really full of himself.

[BitterApple]

The problem with Lawson is that he's pretty and he knows it.

I agree. I'd actually take a less attractive guy like Trace over Lawson.

Edited April 3, 2016 by BitterApple

[BitterApple]

I feel the comparisons between the Duggars and the Bateses illustrate that the Duggars may be fundie, but are primarily dysfunctional. Their dysfunction defines them way more than there fundie-ness. There is some deep down crazy going on in that family. The Bateses are fundie, yes, but also a normal family. They actually change and grow with what life throws at them, like we all do. There doesn't seem to be a one size fits all approach to rule making. I like them. Hopefully I won't get my bubble burst....

I think the biggest difference we see with the Bateseseses is that their children's position in life fits with their ages. The college-aged kids are going to school, the adult kids are married or working.

If you compare Erin with Jana, Erin went to school, finished a music program, teaches piano and has recorded two CD's. And Jana has done...? I'm not trying to infer Jana doesn't have potential, just that her parents have actively prohibited her from pursuing any hobbies, interests or education.

Watching the Duggars is depressing because the siblings in their 20s are no different than they were at 12 and 13.

[JessDVD]

I think another key difference is that there is hope for the Bateses(eses) children outside of the family "businesses". I've been trying to pay as little attention as possible to the Duggars since Joshgate, but I did read the article about the adult children that was in People mag a month or so ago, and while they tried to talk up what the adult children are doing and make it sound like they are Doing Things, they are all basically just "working" for the various Duggar enterprises. Obviously the Bateses are in a different situation, not having a couple million dollars of collateral from doing various TV shows for 12 years, so they don't have as extensive of a family business - but at the same time, those are the families that might *need* the adult children to continue working in the family biz to keep it afloat. It seems those days perhaps did exist for the Bateses but now as the children age (and the finances have improved from the show), it seems they are at the very least encouraged to go out and Do Things that aren't just working for Mom & Dad.

 

I hope that the bubble doesn't burst for the Bateses. We've made it into "plotlines" that are clearly just made for TV, as opposed to the cameras following them doing things they were already doing; if we get to vacations that were clearly comped for the sake of the show, I am out. (That was about where the Duggars' show jumped the shark for me)

[cereality]

I think it is also good for the Bates that Gil's business is only so big AND if you work in that business, you have to DO WORK. In no way can Gil's business absorb his dozen (give or take) sons plus all the sons in law who'll marry his daughters. Gil knows that, I think his kids know that, and Gil and Kelly seem open enough with their kids that they likely talk about these things -- I mean Kelly was shown talking to Trace about what he wants to do post high school, whether it means working for dad, setting up his own business, college, or some combo. Plus not everyone is interested in climbing trees and chopping them down, clearing brush etc. -- so it's not a business that is a natural fit for everyone. Bc those kids know a paycheck from dad isn't just waiting for them, they and their spouses pursue other things. It also helps that they can't resort to laziness unlike the Duggars. The Duggar businesses mostly involve owning property and owning cell phone towers and the kids/family "manage" them; day to day there isn't anything to do bc whoever is leasing a warehouse from you likely isn't calling you every day, nor does his lease come up for renewal every day. So by being in the family business, the Duggar kids get to sleep in and do a whole lot of nothing all day.

 

Also helps that thus far all the Bates sons in law have their own pride -- and hence their own professions. None of the Bates girls has married an 18 yr old off the street with no education or skill who needs his father in law to provide/make up a job. John is trained in HVAC and owns a business with a few of his brothers and he wasn't about to move up to Tenn. so Gil could provide for him. Brandon went to seminary and has some kind of job at Gothard HQ -- again likely not interested in taking from Gil. Chad moved to Tenn. but has a finance degree and found himself a business job in some small manufacturing company. None of those 3 guys seem like they'd want a manual labor job anyway.

[Hero]

Where did Nathan and Ashley meet?

 

I find it a little funny that they make such a big deal about courting. To me, it just seems like they are dating. I feel like they are overdoing it a little. 

 

I know courting to them is one small step away from engagement and then marriage, but it still is a little odd to me. 

 

I wonder what Gil and Kelly taught their kids about sex? I am only bringing this up because I remember the Duggar episode where Josh got married and Jim Bob gave him some kind of CD to listen to. Jim Bob also told him it was like Legos. 

 

Hopefully Gil and Kelly have taught their children different. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Suzy123

[Sew Sumi]

Nathan and Ashley met on one of the Gothard mission trips to the Philippines, either in 2014 or last year (not 100% sure they did a mission trip last year). The timing still works if they did the misson last February, and had been "talking" for about six months leading up to when the last episode was filmed, ostensibly in early December to commemorate Gil and Kelly's anniversary. The courting proposal happened right before Christmas in NYC. So, six months would be around May/June, having known one another for a few months before if they did in fact do a mission trip last year?

[Steff]

Based on Erin's comments about "the big shebang" and that she asked Michaela about being nervous for the wedding night at the candle party/shower, I think the wedding night talks happened long before the day of.  Another possible moment that the Bates are smarter than the Duggars.  You can't just spring the lego talk 2 hours before insert tab A into tab B.