S01.E05: The Truth

[AmandaPanda]

Everything begins to fall apart as Jake struggles to live two lives: teacher and time traveler. When Sadie's life is threatened, Jake has to make a terrible choice, leaving Bill to his own devices. Lee Harvey Oswald takes steps that will lead him into a date with destiny.

[vavera4ka]

Ok i normally don't like the additions of how past is pushing back, because they feel too cheap, not in tune with the things Kings wrote, but Billy thinking he saw his sister was pretty good. That's exactly the mindf%ck the past would do in the book if Billy were a part of it. Credit where it's due.

[econ07]

Why doesn't Jake call the cops when Sadie is threatened?  No sense at all.

[shapeshifter]

I'm having a hard time believing that Jake would be so blindly in love with Sadie given that he's a mature man who has experienced "love" and loss. The only explanation for it that I could buy is that the past pushing back is influencing him. But having her scarred seems more like the past pushing him away from her.

If she had been on the verge of dying of something curable today that she could survive a trip to the rabbit hole, I could see him taking her through to the future--if that's even possible.

But it would be more fun to see 2016 (or is it 2017?) though Bill's eyes.

[ganesh]

I could totally buy Bill choking it. Weird stuff is supposed to happen, so seeing his sister didn't bother me.

 

I also don't like the tv "characters don't tell characters important things." You can't put all that on Bill. How hard is it to say, "Sadie's husband is going to kill her I have to stop him please follow Lee." That took way less time anyway. 

 

I suppose if the show is going for "we'll never know what happened," then ok because we'll see this keep happening. Why write the book if we aren't going to find *something* out. Of course, Lee could talk to George and the guy's might overhear something. 

 

I guess I'm just not a nice person because I would have called the cops and took off to see if Lee actually took the shot. I also don't like women getting away with slapping men. So I was put off. Although this was totally Jake's fault for trying to be Tony Tough Guy to the husband. 

 

Bill is actually good at being the "friendly neighbor." I get that he's into Lee's wife, but I don't feel like he's being creepy or anything. He asked her to come outside and smoke. It didn't seem like Lee was massively pissed off either. I'm hoping this will be an "in". 

 

I'm not seeing Lee as delusional, so Bill's question was actually on point: Why shoot Walker and then JFK?

Edited March 15, 2016 by ganesh

[reggiejax]

But it would be more fun to see 2016 (or is it 2017?) though Bill's eyes.

 

I was under the impression it was 2016 in the show's present, but Jake himself said in this episode he would return to 2015. Though if the present were viewed by Bill's, or Sadie's eyes, the exact year, (be it 2015, 2016 or 2017) really wouldn't make much difference.

 

No surprise that Jake and Bill failed miserably with regards to the Walker attempt. After all, the show is called 11.22.63, and not 4.10.63, the date of the Walker attempt. I do wonder where Jake and Bill's investigation goes from here. Do they follow Lee to New Orleans, where he will spend the next 5 months, before he returns to Dallas (with a detour through Mexico City first), in early October. It would seem they would, but with Jake devoting himself to Sadie, that seems unlikely, My guess is they will wait it out in Dallas until old Lee Harvey comes back. 

 

On the historical tip, I wonder what the real Dr Clark (who was chief of neurosurgery and would attend to JFK that fateful day) would have thought of his TV counterpart being so idiotic when informing Jake about Sadie. Who the hell doesn't start out with "she's alive"? 

Edited March 15, 2016 by reggiejax

[ganesh]

I hope the show doesn't end with the assassination. I want to see what happens after. Jake needs to make the decision to either go back to 2016 or ride it out in the 60s imo. I'd like the assassination to take place in E7, early E8, and have most of the final episode with the fallout of whatever happens. 

 

I think waiting it out until Lee returns would be a mistake. They should at least follow him to New Orleans. Maybe Bill becomes friends and Lee invites him along!

 

I forgot to add about Miss Mimi crying when Jake "resigned." I think she was sad for him, but I guess it she could have been disappointed in him too. Either way, it was a good scene.

Edited March 15, 2016 by ganesh

[zxy556575]

Jake also has the Dunning murder to consider if he goes back to the present and ends up resetting. But then, his dedication to the mission is haphazard at best. God forbid he listen to Al and lay the fuck low.

 

I had no understanding of how a cut to Sadie's face was life-threatening. The doctor blabbed on about blood loss, but there wasn't very much in evidence when she was tied up. Was the implication that she had been stabbed through to her brain?

 

I also don't like the tv "characters don't tell characters important things." You can't put all that on Bill. How hard is it to say, "Sadie's husband is going to kill her I have to stop him please follow Lee." That took way less time anyway.

 

A hundred times this. Drives me crazy.

Edited March 15, 2016 by lordonia

[shapeshifter]

I guess I'm just not a nice person because I would have called the cops and took off to see if Lee actually took the shot.

Heh. Me too.

[dr pepper]

Just watching now. Bill said "good to go" I never heard that phrase before the 90s.

 

also saw plastic garbage bags.

 

Also, Sadie's husband shoots a tv picture tube and it doesn't implode.

 

Let's hear it for small town establishments.

[shapeshifter]

Just watching now. Bill said "good to go" I never heard that phrase before the 90s.

By this time, Bill has probably picked up a lot of 21st century slang from Jake.

[reggiejax]

Just watching now. Bill said "good to go" I never heard that phrase before the 90s.

 

 

I am no expert, but I am pretty sure “good to go” is a phrase that comes from the military, one that was certainly in use during WW2 and Korea, and by 1963, with the large number of veterans in the population, had made it’s way into popular shorthand.

 

I think waiting it out until Lee returns would be a mistake. They should at least follow him to New Orleans. Maybe Bill becomes friends and Lee invites him along!

 

I agree it would make absolute sense to follow Oswald to New Orleans, but with 3 episodes left, and Jake devoting himself to Sadie, I am not so sure they will do so. Oswald leaves for New Orleans within two weeks of the Walker attempt. So Jake declaring his undying love for Sadie and then saying “sorry, I got to take off to the Big Easy for the next 5 months” seems unlikely. He could send Bill, but frankly speaking, even Jake isn’t dumb enough to do that. And the idea that Bill befriends Lee and joins him in New Orleans is almost as unlikely as traveling back in time to stop the Kennedy assassination. With the notable exception of George de Mohrenschildt, Oswald was not the type to a) befriend anyone or b) involve anyone in his schemes. Even those who staunchly believe Oswald was innocent, believe he still fit the “lone” part of “lone nut”.

Edited March 15, 2016 by reggiejax

[ganesh]

Giving the book seemed friendly to me. Why would he do it? Then Lee said, "We'll talk."

 

If Jake is totally open with Sadie, she might go with them all to New Orleans. By missing the Walker attempt, they need intel on Lee. 

 

I'm wondering if the events of the assassination will unfold as "we know them." Jake being there affects everything. Maybe they stop the Dallas shooting, but Lee escapes and does it somewhere else. 

 

They also haven't revisited Ruby again either. He's got known mafia ties, and I'm crossing my fingers for their involvement. 

[GreekGeek]

I have a couple of questions:

 

When Deke told the cop, "[Jake] works at my school," did that mean Jake had his job back, or was Deke just saying that because he understood that Jake wanted to be at the hospital with Sadie?

 

That brief return to Jake's 2016 classroom was disorienting. For a moment, I didn't understand why Jake was wearing a beard and why his students were suddenly so apathetic and badly dressed. When he threw the time travel question at them, are we meant to understand he's already had his long conversation with Al, or is it meant to show that Jake always had time travel on the brain? (Or is this just a go-to question to stir up class discussion?) The scene didn't seem to have much point.

[ganesh]

I think the 2016 scene occurred in the midst of Jake and Al's conversations about living in the past. I get the impression that a decent amount of time passed since Al came back with cancer to his death. So the decision by Jake to do it wasn't rash but thought out over some time. 

It could be that "present" Jake in 1963 might have been having doubts about his decision; Sadie had just dumped him. I think it was more like a "what am I really doing here?" I wasn't around for JFK, and while I'd probably want to know what actually happened, I doubt I'd have the motivation to stop it to the point where I would want to throw 3 years of my life away essentially waiting. So maybe Jake was going through something like that. He might have been able to do something else over that time. 

[MaryHedwig]

When he threw the time travel question at them, are we meant to understand he's already had his long conversation with Al, or is it meant to show that Jake always had time travel on the brain? (Or is this just a go-to question to stir up class discussion?) The scene didn't seem to have much point.

Or was it meant to show us that Jake will survive all this and return to the present and to his first love, teaching.  By the way, I love that this story has a high school English teacher as its hero-and he appears to be a very good one.

[GreekGeek]

Or was it meant to show us that Jake will survive all this and return to the present and to his first love, teaching.  By the way, I love that this story has a high school English teacher as its hero-and he appears to be a very good one.

If he is good, why are his 2016 students so bored in his classroom? I wish there was more of him teaching back in 1963, so we could see if kids were really more attentive when there were fewer distractions like the Internet, video games, etc., or if they've always barely tolerated school.

[reggiejax]

Giving the book seemed friendly to me. Why would he do it? Then Lee said, "We'll talk."

 

It was friendly on the surface, but I took it to mean that Lee was saying "If you want to talk, I'll only talk about this (Marxism).". And in truth, I think Lee thought Bill would never read it, and if he did, it would just be an opportunity for Oswald to speechify about his own obsession with leftist ideology. I think they are, for the most part, sticking with a portrayal of Oswald as close to real life. In real life, Oswald was not a people person, to say the least. Not even when it came to his Marxism. He was the lone member of his chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba committee and there is no evidence that he ever tried to connect or even truly seek out fellow travelers. Marxism wasn't just his obsession, it was his way of placing himself above others, intellectually and politically. Marxism of course is a very unpopular belief system in this country. Oswald certainly did not choose a political belief that would win him friends. But he did choose one that had the benefit (for Oswald that is) of being mostly misunderstood. By which I mean people really didn't, and really still don't, know all that much about Marxism, other than it was the system of our enemies. A lot of people will do this in their lives, spout off about something they are at least certain they know more about than the average person. I'm kind of doing it right now, with these facts about Oswald and the assassination. Difference is I don't believe I am the foremost expert, nor do I believe I know everything, even though I have been an assassination buff for the better part of 30 years. And I certainly do not let it drive my life the way Oswald's obsessions drove his.

 

Anyway, they might have Bill buddy up to Lee, but it would definitely be a huge departure for the character (Lee, that is) that would stick out like a sore thumb. I hope they don't have that happen, but I guess Bill has got to have something to do.

[ganesh]

That had to have been a flashback. Jake looked like pre-travel Jake. 

 

Hopefully, Bill will read the book. Getting anywhere near a conversation with Lee would be huge. And Jake can listen if they talk in the apartment. the only thing is if they keep Lee so enigmatic and we never learn anything at all or see something "new," then this is kind of a waste of time. 

 

That's why sitting around for 5 months while he's in NO would be a stupid move imo. At this point Jake's been there 3 years. Go all in.

[dr pepper]

When the doctor said "damage", i think he meant nerve damage. so not only will Sadie have a scar, but parts of her face will be immoble or sag.

[vavera4ka]

If he is good, why are his 2016 students so bored in his classroom? I wish there was more of him teaching back in 1963, so we could see if kids were really more attentive when there were fewer distractions like the Internet, video games, etc., or if they've always barely tolerated school.

it's not really a spoiler since Jake mentioned it to Deke that he got (the name escapes me) big jock acting (he ended up extremely talented in that department and started considering to pursue it further)and their star Q-back (Jimla) got more studious and responsible. In the book King spent a lot of pages describing how Jake was an amazing teacher and mentor for those kids, and I really hate that it got cut to one line when Jake was defending his job.

 

 

In the book did Johnny actually slice her face in ways that ruined her beauty?  That wound along the edge of her face isn't going to ruin much.  Though I'm glad we didn't see worse, and I understand why they did it that way for the show.

as far as I remember - yes. He has cut her bad. I think in the book he sliced across half of her face and through her cheek. There was some significant nerve damage, multiple surgeries, and

he seriously considered taking her back to his time "to love and to hold" but also to have the best medicine and plastic surgeons available to help her

Edited March 16, 2016 by vavera4ka

[shapeshifter]

When the doctor said "damage", i think he meant nerve damage. so not only will Sadie have a scar, but parts of her face will be immoble or sag.

Yes, but in the scene with the bandage in the hospital bed, when she smiled at Jake there was no drooping.

When they initially showed her with the bloody white hood over her face, I assumed he'd removed an eye in a literal translation of the biblical text "if your eye offends thee, cut it out" meaning she was lusting after Jake. I then wondered if the show runners decided it was too gross for TV. I was looking through 3/4 closed eyes at that moment. In the end she could have had a glass eye and a small scar, which I think would be easier to do makeup for than a partially paralyzed face and scar.

[Helena Dax]

What's Jake going to do if it turns out that Oswald is part of a conspiracy? He doesn't seem to have a plan B, and everything he's doing would be pointless if someone's going to take Oswald's place and kill JFK anyway.

 

I think her scar will be easy to conceal and won't have any physical consequences. She's a good actress and the camera loves her, but in that scene she didn't seem to feel any pain at all, except when she said "don't make me laugh". I mean, she was smiling and talking as usual, no flinch, anything.

 

Poor Bill. I don't blame him and Jake shouldn't do it either: both of them made the same "mistake". 

 

James Franco's doing a great job. But well, I've always liked him. He seems to be a fun, interesting guy. 

[ganesh]

If Oswald is part of a conspiracy, then Jake can always reset and start over, with each time having more knowledge. I think he's either going to waste his life and sanity resetting and never being able to prevent it, or he's going to prevent it, and live out his time with Sadie, only to realize he's made a terrible mistake and have to reset to 2016 as an old man.

 

I'm surprised they didn't mention the Cuban Missile Crisis at all. No one's actually talking much about JFK. 

[lucindabelle]

Honestly what doctor greets someone waiting for someone in critical with in sorry without first saying she's alive?

I'm at the point where I think jake should just forget it and settle down with the woman he loves. Kennedy being shot was sad but I don't think it was as crucial as Al did. Now shooting hitler that would be more urgent.

Why can't bill go through? No spoilers please. Just sayign the world building hasn't een set up that way. Jake seems to be able to arrive fully clothed in both places.

[HolmesUltimateQu]

Honestly what doctor greets someone waiting for someone in critical with in sorry without first saying she's alive?

I'm at the point where I think jake should just forget it and settle down with the woman he loves. Kennedy being shot was sad but I don't think it was as crucial as Al did. Now shooting hitler that would be more urgent.

Why can't bill go through? No spoilers please. Just sayign the world building hasn't een set up that way. Jake seems to be able to arrive fully clothed in both places.

BBM -- I totally agree with that and had the exact same thoughts. I'm just thinking, I'd rather Jake just settle down with Sadie and spend the rest of their time together. It was start to get weird after 1978 (or whatever year Jake was born) but if Present Jake just stayed away from Maine (or anywhere he knew he lived growing up), it might end up being okay! 

I'm starting to feel the same way in that all their energy to save Kennedy - yes, it was horrible and sad - but it's what happened. Maybe just leave things alone, Jake. 

[ganesh]

I don't know what type of person Jake is, but I know all the Superbowl winners, World Series, and NBA champs going back rather far. Plus, you know to invest in IBM, Coke, Microsoft. I'd get stinking rich. You could make a life savings on Superbowl III alone. And the Triple Crown winner in 1978. 

[lucindabelle]

Excellent points re making money!

I don't think Jake has enough of a personal reason to avoid the assassination of kennedy. i mean Bill is more motivated with his sister. It's all academic t Jake, nto as if he had a beloved older brother or uncle killed or damaged in vietnam. meanwhile there's beautiful Sadie who loves you. And good tasting food! And wealth for the mildest of investments!

[ganesh]

It's kind of silly that Jake is spending so much time as a school teacher. It's not like the working hours are any less. I guess the show showed the dangers of betting, but don't bet so specifically. Pros spread it around. I also would have made a second copy of that book. 

 

Given the chance, I would want to know what happened, but I just don't think 2 people are sufficient resources in order to get to the bottom of it all. I'm not necessarily convinced that saving JFK makes everything better either. My motivation would probably be to figure out what happened, and then write a book about it in the present time. 

[ganesh]

The thing is we haven't experienced much of the JFK administration on the show, and it's already 4/63. No one is talking politics, and the Cuban missile crisis wasn't event referenced. It's the defining moment for JFK's presidency at the time. If he has a personal interest, I haven't really seen it. 

 

I don't really have that much of an issue with Jake teaching. I don't think he's really devoting enough resources to the assassination, but he's good at teaching, and it is a cover. If you gamble too much, you risk going to jail so then it's a huge problem. 

[Milburn Stone]

Honestly what doctor greets someone waiting for someone in critical with in sorry without first saying she's alive?

 

As someone who read the book, I'm disappointed the show doesn't live up to it. But the fatal problem with the show is not that it had to abridge the book in important ways. The fatal problem is that the show is stupidly written. If only the example you cite were unique!

 

Everything that comes out of anybody's mouth in this show feels engineered to give the audience information or create an audience response, rather than like something a human being might actually say. (All dramatic writing is engineered to give information or create response, but good dramatic writing conceals the gears behind a screen of "this is how human beings might believably speak or behave in this situation.")

Edited March 27, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[paramitch]

I'm enjoying the show, if in a kind of muted way thus far.

 

I think the reason Jake teaches is understandable -- it's what he's passionate about, it's who he is, and it helps to stave off the boredom, disconnect, and loneliness he would otherwise face constantly while living in the past.

 

I do think it's weird that the show has barely touched on Kennedy -- not even his election to the presidency! No reactions from Bill that "Wow, it actually happened, this guy's telling the truth," etc.

 

I've liked Jake most of the time on the show thus far, but it absolutely killed me here that poor Bill is sobbing like his heart will break, and Jake just puts the phone down and literally leaves him hanging, to run off to Sadie. I just thought that was pretty cold.

[ganesh]

I said the same thing. Even if we assume that "small town" = republican and people don't really like JFK, it's really questionable that the election wasn't mention, which was one of the closest ever, *and* political pov otherwise, the Cuban missile crisis wasn't mentioned at all.