Big Little Book Talk

[Nancybeth]

I'm wondering if they're adding in some new plot lines to keep all us book readers on our toes and interested?  Like, maybe they're afraid that if it's just a straight re-telling of the book we'll lose interest because we know how it ends.  I just re-read the book, and even I can't say for sure that the series will end the same way anymore.  It's possible they're trying to avoid spoilers by tossing in a few things that are different. 

It reminds me a little of all the talk about how the ending of "Gone Girl," had been changed before the movie came out...it didn't actually turn out to be that different at all, but it probably caused some additional interest in the film.

[laprin]

I wonder if Maddie's affair replaces the one in the book between Renata's husband and the nanny. Seems like Kelly wanted the affair to be a bigger story so he moved it to a bigger character. The one part of the book I was hoping would not be in the series is that whole story line with Abigail selling her virginity. If he's adding new things, he could have done us favor of leaving that out, and then I would be more forgving of things like Jane getting high while driving.

[MissMandy]

I think they probably added the affair to add even more scandal to the show. There are only 2 eps left and I am not sure if they will fit everything in! Also a difference I noticed is that in the book Saxon Banks is Perry's cousin - and although Saxon Banks is mentioned in the tv show - doesn't seem like it will be revealed to be Perry's cousins name.

[MeloraH]

3 hours ago, laprin said:

I wonder if Maddie's affair replaces the one in the book between Renata's husband and the nanny. Seems like Kelly wanted the affair to be a bigger story so he moved it to a bigger character. 

Yeah, they haven't been hinting at the nanny affair but with Maddie's affair it kind of makes me think they might have all 4 of them end up single at the end. (I haven't seen the latest ep.)

 

1 hour ago, MissMandy said:

Also a difference I noticed is that in the book Saxon Banks is Perry's cousin - and although Saxon Banks is mentioned in the tv show - doesn't seem like it will be revealed to be Perry's cousins name.

Celeste definitely did have a reaction when she saw the Saxon web page though...

[MissMandy]

Oh ok I must have missed Celeste's reaction!

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/13/2017 at 0:07 AM, laprin said:

Tonight left me wondering how much more Kelly plans to veer from the book. Celeste practicing law? Maddie cheating? And they have made Nathan more of an asshole and Ed kind of pervy.  Not loving those changes at all. Also, no mention of Celeste keeping an apartment just in case.  I do like that Jane's character is a little more feisty as shown by her practicing at the gun range. 

The constant looks between Ed and Abigail is one of the worst changes from book to show.  FOR SURE if I hadn't read the book I would be thinking that there was something going on.  There is a hint to it practically every episode!  It's ridiculous!  And gross!

The car crash as a culmination of the affair just really pissed me off entirely.  I already hate car crashes depicted on TV/movies and this was as gratuitous as it gets as somebody decided to pen the entire affair out of nowhere with no reference to the book.

It's weird how the show hews so closely to the book in other ways, some of it is a word for word retelling from the book, and I appreciate it, but they just had to put the affair in there.  Also, having a cop character in there that doesn't exist in the book also bothers me.  The cop has zero personality or character in the book, so changing this when the crime is the major ending/climax is rather significant.  (Maybe this character won't end up doing anything except for what was done in the book - that'd be fine.)

I love the fact that they changed Bonnie from white to black as played by Zoe Kravitz, I can deal with Perry being younger than Book Perry because the actor is doing such a good job, but these changes I mention above are the worst.  While I'm at it, Shailene looks nothing like Book Jane, and Book Jane's looks are extremely important to the story.  Also, what happened to Jane that resulted in Ziggy was not a straight sexual assault, I find it interesting they do not delve into this but for the simplicity of the story ok.  It's just funny that the director/writer would rather sacrifice parts of the actual book by shoving Madeleine and Joseph in there.  I wonder who's idea it was to give Maddie this unneeded "complexity".

Another change: the cafe guy and Jane are supposed to fall in love, so in this version, they just have Joe staring at everyone all the time.  Lord have mercy

Edited March 21, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[molshoop]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I can deal with Perry being younger than Book Perry

I've read the book, but can't remember how old Perry is supposed to be.  I think both A.S. (40) and N.K. (49)

look younger than their actual ages.

[Atlanta]

I think he's 5 years younger than Celeste in the book, but can't remember the exact ages.

[sportsgirl]

So many of the changes made between book and show are so frustrating to me, because instead of increasing the drama and tension, I feel like they deflate it. The Perry filtered through Celeste's point of view, which was the only one we saw in the book, was so complex: for a big chunk of the book, I thought his violent tendencies were one aspect of his personality, balanced by being extremely generous and a great father and a dedicated husband who recognized that the mutual violence between him and Celeste was wrong but he had no idea how to stop it. This version of him obviously unraveled as Celeste rented the apartment, but it still was there, enough, to add some suspense to the story: I literally gasped out loud at the bad twin sentence, because I'd been swayed by Celeste telling us that Perry was a good guy. I missed the reality, and the effect that it had on the twins, because that's what Celeste had missed, too. The successful Perry misdirection also made the reveal that he was Saxon Banks a surprising twist for me, but one that was completely satisfying: Moriarity's narrative abilities hid the truth in plain sight.

The show, however, lacks that subtlety: instead, we get everything we know about abusive husbands (controlling Celeste's job, freaking out about how much money she spends). And the result is, Perry's guilt as both Jane's rapist and murder victim/murderer is telegraphed from the start -- in the ep threads, it's pretty much expected that he's the culprit because the show has gone entirely black hat with him.  

I also dislike the decision to switch Ziggy's conception from one of consensual sex followed by mental cruelty to rape. Again, I think it's trading off something different and compelling for something expected. Finally, Maddie's affair -- and how she continues to work with a man she slept with -- is really hard to believe about the book version of this character and takes the focus off her frustration with Nathan suddenly showing up as perfect dad to Skye, perfect husband to Bonnie after he abandoned Maddie with a newborn -- it's as if the show found that plot unsustainable.

[laprin]

I hated the Abigail selling her virginity storyline in the book, but Kelly managed to make it more annoying. Maddy blurts out her mistake (i.e. affair) to her 16 year-old and she is criticizing Nathan's parenting skills? The projectile vomiting was just gross. 

I would say I know what's coming in the finale, but maybe not. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/21/2017 at 4:27 PM, Atlanta said:

I think he's 5 years younger than Celeste in the book, but can't remember the exact ages.

I'm willing to bet a lot of money that that's not true...  But I'm not going to bother to re-read right now, since I just did before the series premiere.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Is it also your recollection that their ages aren't mentioned?

I re-read the book just before the show started, and an age difference was definitely not mentioned. The only reference to age was that Celeste was 25 when she met Perry. 

[Snappy]

Since I did read the book (NO SPOILERS), I was hesitant to watch because the televised version usually doesn't even minutely resemble the text. In this case, it does. Even the casting is really good, and believable. I am not a Nicole Kidman fan, yet she has won me over in her portrayal of Celeste. It may sound petty, but I like that her hair is red vs. the usual washed out blonde. I'm guessing that's for contrast against Reese. I was never a huge Laura Dern fan either, but she's won me over as Renata. I am especially impressed with how she can go from 0 to 60; mama tiger to vulnerable, especially in this episode. Zoe Kravitz IS Bonnie, and Shailene Woodley is young enough, yet not too young which is also emphasized by the outfits she wears. I want to be Madeliene, or at least have her closet, and the body to go with it. I am so sad that next week is the last episode. It'd be awesome if they did this with more Lianne Moriarty books. 

[BusyOctober]

I know this is a limited series, so they can't get too deep with each character. My main complaint re. lack of character development is Bonnie.  In the book, she was soft spoken, gentle, peace-nik and always came off as an apologist for other people's behavior or a mousy doormat.  That wishy-washy peace-love-and granola personality really made the ending more interesting.  While Zoe Kravitz is doing OK in this, she isn't playing the book character. Unless the last episode gives us more about her, the big reveal won't make sense for non-book readers IMO.  That is if they stick to the book plot...they wouldn't switch up who the killer is would they???

Also, the next episode better do some more exposition about the virginity for sale plot and its resolution.  It was a real intense moment in the book; it woke Ed up out of his passive ways, it made Madeline more raw & vulnerable, it gave Celeste the opportunity to be powerful.  In this episode, I found everyone's reactions to be so tepid!  Sure Nathan ranted and yelled at his daughter for a minute & a half, but then he calm down and saw the "heroic" gesture of Abigail's social conscious...Um?  REALLY??? And Madeleine got physically ill when she heard the news, but then is tearfully telling her 16 year old about her big mistake re. the affair.  Then she strolls away!  No effing way normal parents would be that que sera sera about their child prostituting herself on the internet.

It's frustrating that there's only one episode left and sooooo much left to do!

[dhilde85]

I haven't read the book yet, but for those that have, does Madeline and Ed's relationship make more sense? On the show they seem so mismatched or more like really good friends instead of husband and wife. 

[chocolatine]

Just now, dhilde85 said:

I haven't read the book yet, but for those that have, does Madeline and Ed's relationship make more sense? On the show they seem so mismatched or more like really good friends instead of husband and wife. 

Yes, it does. In the book Madeline does not have an affair. Their story is that they lived on the same street growing up, and Ed fell in love with her when he saw her play cricket in high heels. Madeline did't notice him however, and went on to marry "bad boy" Nathan, but a few years after Nathan left her, Madeline and Ed reconnected and got together. So in a way Ed is the "steady Eddie", but Madeline loves him very much and respects their marriage.

[jeansheridan]

14 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

In the book, her being the killer was kind of sprung on us as well.

I hated the ending of the book.  Hated that two random characters (Renata and Bonnie) suddenly became the main actors.  That Celeste 's problem went away oh so easily.  Poof.  

My problem is Bonnie has barely interacted with Jane and Celeste.   Why be angry FOR them?  

And I hate we never got Jane and Celeste's silent walks together.  That was important bonding. 

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

My problem is Bonnie has barely interacted with Jane and Celeste.   Why be angry FOR them?  

Because she had just recently found that one of the twins had been hurting Skye, and she as a child had been a witness to her father hurting her mother. Also, she didn't mean to kill him. She pushed him because she had just seen him hit Celeste (that was the first time he did it in public); he fell because it was slippery, and he was so tall that he went right over the railing.

[jeansheridan]

All true but it felt so contrived in the book.  That chill, yoga practising, vegetarian Bonnie gave the shove.

 And Renata leaped in to help with the cover up.  Renata was a cartoon villain in the book.  Not so much on the show fortunately. 

I also hated that Perry was the rapist too.  Too much.  And that Celeste paid the auction.  It all ended too cutesy for such a heavy story.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think it's possible that Bonnie became a chill yoga practicing vegetarian as a result of witnessing her mother be abused. It was her way of controlling her emotions, her body, and her mind. Just as eating disorders are not always just about food, I think that Bonnie choosing to be a calm yoga vegetarian gave her a way to assert control in her life.

As for Bonnie becoming angry enough on behalf of Celeste and Jane to push Perry, you never know what your fight or flight instinct will be until you're in that situation. For Bonnie, it was personal because seeing his violent behavior reminded her of her abusive father. But there are also people who have never been abused who would step in like that if they saw someone being physically hurt in public too.

[Atlanta]

The railing on the balcony was also found to be too short for building code. 

My daughter just old me her friend's mom sometimes hits her or her brother (enough to bruise) if they don't make 100s. A school nurse had asked about it, but they were told they weren't allowed to tell (this goes back to when they were in first grade). I now want to throw that mom off a deck. Her poor friend developed social anxiety as a result. :(

[jeansheridan]

33 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

find it interesting how many people hated the virginity thing with a white hot passion, and in the show it wasn't even 'live' like in the book.  

For me it feels very OOC for show Abby who has come off much more reasonable on tv.  Book Abby was a thin caricature which was annoying because Moriarty writes teen books.  She can create realistic teen aged humans.  Abby was all self righteous angst in the book, insisting on taking her bed with her to Dad's house because it was the better bed.  

And then when basically Celeste saves the day with a fairytale letter from some soft hearted grandpa in America....bleh.  

I had hoped Kelly would fix her ending but that is looking less probable.

[Ms Blue Jay]

23 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Yes, it does. In the book Madeline does not have an affair. Their story is that they lived on the same street growing up, and Ed fell in love with her when he saw her play cricket in high heels. Madeline did't notice him however, and went on to marry "bad boy" Nathan, but a few years after Nathan left her, Madeline and Ed reconnected and got together. So in a way Ed is the "steady Eddie", but Madeline loves him very much and respects their marriage.

I also think that Book Maddie is almost nothing like Reese Maddie.  Reese obviously had the passionate affair and is presented as a little aloof, sexy, hardened.

Book Maddie is presented as like, a fun-loving goofball. Very free-spirited and silly. Reese Maddie is not like that. Although Book Maddie DOES take Jane under her wing and DOES flip out on Abigail for the auction thing.  I just think, demeanor wise, they are so different.  

I've totally made my peace now with the differences between the book and series, but I do think it's interesting to talk about.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Atlanta]

IMO, Kelly & co ruined Maddie with the affair. It's so far off from the original character. Don't know why Reese wanted it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think because there's not much 'edge' or 'drama' to the character of Book Madeleine, don't you think?  Actors usually want to 'do the most' as the kids say.  They want a challenge....  And, the producers/director obviously weren't going for the lighthearted tone that so much of the book, and most of Liane's books seem to have.  They wanted more of a dark, glam HBO tone.  Beautiful houses and women amongst high intensity drama and secrets.  Liane's book had the juxtaposition of being a fun comedy with an incredibly serious theme that sneaks up on you.  This series just wanted to do the 'drama' thing....  This series' idea of comedy is maybe a couple of barbs by Madeleine and some green projectile vomiting.... 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[ElectricBoogaloo]

First of all, I have to tell you guys that sometimes when I click on the book thread, I start reading the posts and then forget I'm in the book thread and then when I see book references I'm like OMG you guys are going to get in trouble for talking about the book! And then I remember I'm in the book thread and I am relieved.

Sometimes building codes seem like a pain in the ass, but the one about railings is practical (although only for the majority of people since obviously super tall people like basketball players could still lean over and fall). I remember on Revenge when a character went over the railing, just before it happened I noticed how low the railing was and thought dude, how could this beautiful custom built mansion have such a low railing on the second floor? Then SPLAT.

Normally if I read a book first, I end up nitpicking the movie/tv show over the differences but I forgot so much about this book (I didn't even remember who the killer or the dead person were until I came into this thread) that I haven't been bothered by the changes. I don't like that they added Madeline having an affair, partly because we've seen that she is very loyal so it seems really out of character for her. I guess maybe Reese Witherspoon wanted to add it so that Madeline had a secret too?

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I remember noticing that Revenge railing was too low, too, I think.  A man's center of gravity is in his chest so they topple over those things more easily.

Wasn't it a petite pregnant woman who went over the second-floor railing on Revenge? (apologies for OT)

[ninjago]

On March 25, 2017 at 0:14 AM, sportsgirl said:

The Perry filtered through Celeste's point of view, which was the only one we saw in the book, was so complex: for a big chunk of the book, I thought his violent tendencies were one aspect of his personality, balanced by being extremely generous and a great father and a dedicated husband who recognized that the mutual violence between him and Celeste was wrong but he had no idea how to stop it.

I am only on the fourth episode, but I agree totally.  Book Perry spent most of his time being a nice, playful guy with Celeste and the kids, then he'd go nuts and beat the shit out of her and Celeste was always demurring and caught off guard.  Show Perry is almost always a worked up asshole who rarely shows any remorse and Celeste is much more combative in anticipation of this.

I also think the show suffers from having everyone at a very high income level.  Part of Perry and Celeste's allure and mystique was that they were billionaires and Perry was a financial rockstar.  It fed into their isolation.  Now Renata, who, in the book, was an executive, but not a board of eBay-level executive, is basically on par with them, and Madeline isn't far behind.

Edited March 30, 2017 by ninjago

[jeansheridan]

On the episode thread the whole Bonnie v. Maddie relationship is being discussed and it made me realize that Maddie is just flat out nicer in the book.  She admits Bonnie is a great cook.  She likes Skye.  Her internal monologue is more generous.  And she is secure with Ed.  

She is always irritated if not hostile toward Bonnie.  She never gives an inch.  Show Maddie is unnecessarily toxic.  Reese is charming but doesn't have bookMaddie's warmth.  I think it hurts the balance of the story.  

And it makes me like Bonnie a lot.  Bonnie is the warm one.  The kind one.  The one who cares that everyone get along.

[jeansheridan]

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 10:14 PM, sportsgirl said:

also dislike the decision to switch Ziggy's conception from one of consensual sex followed by mental cruelty to rape.

I think it was flat out rape in the book despite Jane's struggle to see it that way.  And she said on the show she went with him willingly.  It started consensual and went bad.  The book allowed for more distance because we couldn't see it.  And on the show they had to just give us snippets to hide his identity.  

I personally wouldn't have shown him at all.  Maybe just his hands. Or just had her tell it and not show it for once. Which is breaking a big storytelling rule but rules are meant to be broken.

[jeansheridan]

Nathan's big fail was being immature and not fulfilling his responsibility as a father.  I just realized Maddie and he were 25 when they had Abby (Maddie turns 40 in the book and Abby is 14).  He should have been a bit more settled at 25.  And I guess Maddie wasn't that young of a mother.  25 is a reasonable age to have a child.  Two or three years out of college.  I thought she was more like 20.  Clearly I can't do basic math.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't think that was the case with Nathan. He has admitted to both Ed and Maddie that abandoning Maddie and Abigail and not being there while Abby was growing up was a shitty thing for him to do. 

As for paying child support, a lot of single parents choose not to pursue it while allowing the deadbeat parent to maintain contact with the child because they simply want the kid to have a relationship with the other parent. It happens all the time, unfortunately. Maddie also mentioned to Jane how much she struggled as a single parent when Abby was younger which made me think Nathan was not paying child support. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

If you are legally divorced and if you have a regular 9-5 job where you receive regular paychecks, it's much easier for them to garnish your wages. If you just take off, which is what it sounds like Nathan did*, and you are getting paid in cash then it's a lot harder to enforce. 

* It may be semantics but Madeline didn't say, "Nathan filed for divorce right after Abby was born." She has said things like "He abandoned Abby and me," which is why it sounds to me like he just slunk away without filing for divorce. He probably made her do all the legal paperwork. 

Based on the way that Maddie, Nathan, and Ed have described Nathan abandoning Maddie and Abby at various times on the show, I don't think this is a case like your sister's where Maddie left Nathan and then decided to rewrite history to make herself the victim. All three of their versions of what happened seem to line up. Nathan didn't dispute it when Ed brought it up. Even Bonnie didn't deny it when Ed mentioned it to her. She just "explained" it by saying everyone has baggage. 

[chocolatine]

There was a reference in the book to "whenever Nathan could rouse himself to send a check" or something along those lines, which I took to mean that financial support from Nathan was sporadic and Maddie couldn't rely on it as a source of income.

And the way it was described in the book how Nathan left Maddie definitely falls into the "very shitty" category for me. He told Maddie when Abigail was three weeks old that he "couldn't do this" ("this" being parenting) and took off. Then when Maddie ran into him during first day of school, he was all verklempt about witnessing that occasion for the first time, and Maddie had to remind him that he missed Abigail's first day of school.

[Gem 10]

On March 29, 2017 at 4:20 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

First of all, I have to tell you guys that sometimes when I click on the book thread, I start reading the posts and then forget I'm in the book thread and then when I see book references I'm like OMG you guys are going to get in trouble for talking about the book! And then I remember I'm in the book thread and I am relieved.

Sometimes building codes seem like a pain in the ass, but the one about railings is practical (although only for the majority of people since obviously super tall people like basketball players could still lean over and fall). I remember on Revenge when a character went over the railing, just before it happened I noticed how low the railing was and thought dude, how could this beautiful custom built mansion have such a low railing on the second floor? Then SPLAT.

Normally if I read a book first, I end up nitpicking the movie/tv show over the differences but I forgot so much about this book (I didn't even remember who the killer or the dead person were until I came into this thread) that I haven't been bothered by the changes. I don't like that they added Madeline having an affair, partly because we've seen that she is very loyal so it seems really out of character for her. I guess maybe Reese Witherspoon wanted to add it so that Madeline had a secret too?

Ha .. Same thing with me.  I read the book in one sitting (a cold rainy day) a few weeks after the series started, and I forgot so many things like Maddie having the affair, etc.  Then, between the book and the series I was confused.  I'll never do that again.

[jeansheridan]

I get a little frustrated when reviewers get too nitpicky about changes from the book to the film version.  I think Harry Potter films ruined a generation of film goers who want the film to match the books scene for scene.

  They are two different mediums and so the stories need to be told differently and changes can be made.  Music wasn't all that important in the book but it obviously works on the show.  I don't think they should have shown the rape scene unless they were going to change the rapist.  The show chose to give Renata and Bonnie more time rather than showing Jane's awesome mom and dad and brother. But they don't really have an impact on the plot.  

If they wedge Tom into the last episode as a love interest I will be annoyed since the show didn't bother to expand on his character.  But they may just to follow the book plot.  I think that is a mistake.

[Guest]

Yeah, I didn't mind the changes from the book really.  The affair was kind of gratuitous.  Though I guess it was a way to hit home Maddie's restlessness in her marriage.   Or to give Reese some love/sex scenes.  Who knows.  Also just as padding.  

I do think we'll see Tom ask Jane out, or the scene where she mentions that she thinks he's gay and he makes it clear he's not and he's into her.  Otherwise why have him exist as a speaking character at all.  I think he's just there to show Jane's getting over it finally and might find new happiness in Monterey.  People like their happily ever after bows.  

[meisje]

I just started watching the show 2 wks ago and then decided to start the book on Thursday! It definitely sucked me in, which really surprised me, but it sounds like her other novels don't pack as much of a punch which is too bad because I was excited to start another. I'm with the camp that prefers the book, and really doesn't appreciate the addition of all of the Reese subplots. Given how involved she is, it just feels gratuitous and like it's in her contract to have so much screen time. It was really surprising to read Madeline and still imagine Reese, but a much more likable character all around. I'm not sure if the DV stuff is better or clearer in the book or not, it still feels superficial in some respects?

Adam Scott is a great actor, but again, the difference between this central couple in the book versus the show is off-putting to me now. The actor who really isn't working for me, pre or post read, is Shailene. I don't find that she blends into roles very well at all. During Snowden all I saw was a wig, and now all I see is Shailene, tortured, single mother. She's so dissimilar to the book's Jane too that it doesn't help me to understand the casting any better. On the one hand, I'm glad they didn't go for an It Girl of the moment, but there are definitely better fits, just without the name recognition (which I prefer, but given it's HBO, I suppose that's just not possible...?).

Things really do tie up into a bit of a lazy, neat knot there at the end, so I'm very curious to see how the TV version goes!!

[jeansheridan]

I won't spoil the last episode but I personally think the show made the murder scene work better than the book.  Murder scene and cover up.

[Atlanta]

I thought the book did it better. The book fleshed out Bonnie better there. There was more closure and follow-up. They spent too much time on the dumb Elvis songs which never happened.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Atlanta

[MissL]

I also thought the book did a better job. You understood Bonnie better and you understood better why they had to lie because in the book Celeste was not in immediate physical danger from Perry so no self defense excuse. It's also pulled the husbands in and forced them to lie and I was particularly interested in how that impacted the ed/maddie/ex husband dynamic.

also Renata gets a bettter scene because she is the one who decides in the moment they aren't going to tell the truth.

In fact another major character moment missing is Celeste understanding he's not just violent with her but he is violent in general. I think devoting so little time to the actual moment was a bad choice. Only big miss for me in an otherwise excellent series.

[Guest]

I liked the book better because it wasn't a big free-for-all fight at the end.  Perry smacked Celeste out of habit and Bonnie shoved him on reflex and he went over the balcony rail.  I also liked that Celeste ended the auction (cheesy as it was) and that we got confirmation Bonnie watched her parents' abuse.  

[lmsweb]

Posting this here so I don't get my hand whacked again for saying the word "book" in the episode thread.

In the book, it goes into Bonnie's background where her Mother used to get beaten regularly by her Dad, to the point where Bonnie hid under the bed at one point. She has PTSD from her childhood, hence why she now tries to lead a life of peace and zen.

Also in the book, the end happened differently, with Maddy and Jane I think both ending up with broken bones, but the end result is still the same.

The Joseph and Maddy line never happened in the book. I'm kind of irritated it happened in the show, since it didn't serve anything other than to show Maddy isn't prefect.

And for those wondering what happened with Jane and Ziggy after - Celeste set up a trust fund for Ziggy, on par with the twins, so he would have all the same advantages as the twins.

Most of what happened in the book played out in the show, with just some details changed, but the storylines stayed the same. OH! Except in the book, Abby DOES launch her website and gets an anonymous email from a man offering her $100,000 to pull the site down and he would donate it to the charity (Amnesty International, I believe). The "man" who donates it is actually Celeste, and she does it with Perry's money before he has his fatal fall.

OH! Also, Saxon Banks was actually Perry's cousin, and Perry used his name. And in the book, although the women all cover up for Bonnie, she ultimately goes to the police with the truth, gets involuntary manslaughter and does like 200 hours of community service. And Celeste becomes a spokeperson of sorts for domestic abuse victims.

[KaleyFirefly]

37 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

Posting this here so I don't get my hand whacked again for saying the word "book" in the episode thread.

In the book, it goes into Bonnie's background where her Mother used to get beaten regularly by her Dad, to the point where Bonnie hid under the bed at one point. She has PTSD from her childhood, hence why she now tries to lead a life of peace and zen.

Also in the book, the end happened differently, with Maddy and Jane I think both ending up with broken bones, but the end result is still the same.

The Joseph and Maddy line never happened in the book. I'm kind of irritated it happened in the show, since it didn't serve anything other than to show Maddy isn't prefect.

And for those wondering what happened with Jane and Ziggy after - Celeste set up a trust fund for Ziggy, on par with the twins, so he would have all the same advantages as the twins.

Most of what happened in the book played out in the show, with just some details changed, but the storylines stayed the same. OH! Except in the book, Abby DOES launch her website and gets an anonymous email from a man offering her $100,000 to pull the site down and he would donate it to the charity (Amnesty International, I believe). The "man" who donates it is actually Celeste, and she does it with Perry's money before he has his fatal fall.

OH! Also, Saxon Banks was actually Perry's cousin, and Perry used his name. And in the book, although the women all cover up for Bonnie, she ultimately goes to the police with the truth, gets involuntary manslaughter and does like 200 hours of community service. And Celeste becomes a spokeperson of sorts for domestic abuse victims.

Yes! I was going to write all this actually, since they left a lot of the book stuff out of the show. But it seemed that a lot of non-book readers picked up on the whole "Bonnie's got abuse in her past" thing just by the expressions on Zoe Kravitz's face. 

I didn't like the subplot of Maddie cheating on Ed either. Totally unnecessary filler on the show. And the Avenue Q thing never happened in the book either. Also, a lot of people were saying it seemed too much of a coincidence that Perry turned out to be Jane's rapist. But the book explains it by saying that Jane remembered, that night, seeing a flyer for real estate at that beach, and Perry telling her he was thinking of buying a house there. So she ended up moving there because subconsciously she wanted to find him and confront him.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/30/2017 at 9:23 AM, jeansheridan said:

I think it was flat out rape in the book despite Jane's struggle to see it that way.  And she said on the show she went with him willingly.  It started consensual and went bad.  The book allowed for more distance because we couldn't see it.  And on the show they had to just give us snippets to hide his identity.  

I personally wouldn't have shown him at all.  Maybe just his hands. Or just had her tell it and not show it for once. Which is breaking a big storytelling rule but rules are meant to be broken.

Yes it was definitely rape. She is going to have consensual sex with him but then he starts choking her and being violent with her and she feels too afraid to try to run. That is date rape.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, lmsweb said:

OH! Also, Saxon Banks was actually Perry's cousin, and Perry used his name.

Yes, that part was important, I thought. When Celeste first found out, she was conflicted because she'd known the actual Saxon as a good guy.

Also, the book made it somewhat clear, I thought, that Perry had been a serial cheater/date rapist. Because when Jane told him he was Saxon, he didn't seem to remember who Jane was, but he went straight to trying to "explain" to Celeste. That sounded like it wasn't just Jane to whom he'd introduced himself as Saxon Banks.

[madam magpie]

Questions for book people: Is there any explanation for why Madeline and Renata are so at odds st the beginning? Were they friends that went sour?

Also, did you get any backstory on Jane's family? What did she tell them about Ziggy? (Assuming she hadn't told anyone about the rape before Madeline, as on the show.)

[meisje]

Quote

I didn't like the subplot of Maddie cheating on Ed either. Totally unnecessary filler on the show. And the Avenue Q thing never happened in the book either. Also, a lot of people were saying it seemed too much of a coincidence that Perry turned out to be Jane's rapist. But the book explains it by saying that Jane remembered, that night, seeing a flyer for real estate at that beach, and Perry telling her he was thinking of buying a house there. So she ended up moving there because subconsciously she wanted to find him and confront him.

The unfolding and final Perry scenes were so lackluster on tv. Instead of tension and a series of revelations, we just got him King Kong-ing out to the patio and randomly smashing at women or throwing them aside. One of the most powerful parts in the book reveal was Jane's exclamation followed by Perry's "It didn't mean anything," and the moments right after that. The psychological implications are what made the scene hefty, not the brute force of his violence or that it was wildly indiscriminate. The whole ending was just so truncated and instead we got a super duper day at the beach and bookended Rolling Stones?!

It wasn't like they didn't have the time either, they just decided to give Zoe a chance to sing, and then Adam Scott a chance to lip sync, and for Adam and Nathan to do another stupid chicken dance and the 25 stares at Madeline from wife of affair guy. Not a good use of the last hour...

[chocolatine]

Just now, madam magpie said:

Questions for book people: Is there any explanation for why Madeline and Renata are so at odds st the beginning? Were they friends that went sour?

Also, did you get any backstory on Jane's family? What did she tell them about Ziggy? (Assuming she hadn't told anyone about the rape before Madeline, as on the show.)

In the book, Madeline and Renata each have a son in the same grade as well, two years ahead of Chloe/Amabella, so they've known each other as school moms for a while by the time the events of the book start unfolding. Renata apparently brags too much that both her children are "gifted", and also talks about her career too much, which Madeline takes issue with. There's no big "feud" until Renata starts her vendetta against Ziggy though.

Jane told her family that Ziggy was a result of a one-night stand. She had just come out of a relationship with her high school boyfriend and went out to have some fun when she met Perry. Her family was very sweet and supportive. They weren't happy that she moved all the way out to the beach suburb because it was a long drive for them, but they adored Ziggy. 

[meisje]

10 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Questions for book people: Is there any explanation for why Madeline and Renata are so at odds st the beginning? Were they friends that went sour?

Also, did you get any backstory on Jane's family? What did she tell them about Ziggy? (Assuming she hadn't told anyone about the rape before Madeline, as on the show.)

I completely forgot about that, but there's a ton of backstory about Jane's family in the book. She has a very loving and involved mom, dad and brother, and a long scene where Madeline and Jane's mom meet and Madeline learns a lot about Jane. The family's guess about Ziggy is that Jane's ex-boyfriend Zach, who broke up with her before spending a few months in Europe, was really the father. Jane always says that's not the case, but her mother and family notice that she became a completely different person around the time of getting pregnant which was immediately after the breakup, and Madeline sees a photo of Jane before the rape and is shocked by how different she appears. Jane's brother is a fan of Bob Marley so volunteered Ziggy for the name, but it's kind of not the best one to choose if you're trying to convince the world it's definitely not your ex Zach's child, perhaps? 

The Jane HBO character is less multi-dimensional. Maybe they thought it would be more believable that these affluent women would look after her and take her into the fold only if she were alone in the world, but it robbed the character of a lot of nuance. 

I'm not sure I'll ever follow the decision to leave certain things out that had such payoff to replace it with affair mumbo jumbo that went nowhere and served no purpose.

eta: sorry for the repeats, chocolatine got it!

Edited April 3, 2017 by meisje