The Godfather Epic

[ZaldamoWilder]

bwahhaaaaaaa!  you made me ask The Google.    Awesomesauce.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVAKp02yPM

[Inquisitionist]

Moe Green (Alex Rocco) was a real life lightweight gangster...?

 

Just to clarify:  It was Alex Rocco, who portrayed Moe Green, had mob connections -- back when he was called Alex Petricone.  ;-)

[VCRTracking]

What I want to know about that is why nobody ever wonders, cries, blames, carries on about what happened to Fredo?  Tom knows.  Kaye is being annoyingly naive, but Connie never brings it up?  Not so much as a shoulder shrug?  lol.

 

 

And what about Anthony? "Hey, Dad? Remember when I was about to go fishing with Uncle Fredo, but you told me I had to go into town? Why wasn't Uncle Fredo home when we got back? Dad, be honest, there is no farm upstate where Fredos can run and play with other Fredos, is there?"

 

All this was brought up in Part III, which I know a lot of people want to ignore but it does show Michael's past sins come back to haunt him. In the third movie Anthony doesn't want to follow in Michael's footsteps because he says he has "bad memories" and when he leaves the room Kay tells Michael that Anthony knows he killed Fredo. Later though Connie talks about how "Poor Fredo drowned" which means she's either stupid or just in COMPLETE denial about it(I choose the latter). When Michael has his diabetic stroke, both Pacino and Coppola really go over the top with Michael yelling "FREDO!!!" during a thunder storm.

 

Later Michael confesses to the priest(who will become Pope John Paul I) about killing his own brother and weeps.

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Dejana]

It's been a while since I read the book, which I didn't think was as good as the movie, but it illuminated certain scenes. Who knew that bridesmaid from Sonny's tryst at the wedding reception had such an interesting backstory?

[ZaldamoWilder]

VCR thank you.  I didn't remember it.  My mind treats Godfather III like a terrible blight.  Never to be revisited.

[benteen]

It's been a while since I read the book, which I didn't think was as good as the movie, but it illuminated certain scenes. Who knew that bridesmaid from Sonny's tryst at the wedding reception had such an interesting backstory?

 

I wouldn't call her backstory interesting, especially given the subject matter it covers.  Though it does rule out the idea that she had an illegitimate kid with Sonny.

[GHScorpiosRule]

All I remember from Bridemaid's story from the book was that there was a good section where she and Johnny hooked up. So glad that that was left out of the movie, as it didn't add to anything.

 

And it's been awhile since I read the book; but I'm going to start reading it again tonight, but I always thought that the movie was nearly 100% true to the book; I remember discussing it on TWoP, I think? and I also said, of course! Because Puzo also co-wrote the screenplay for the movie.

 

That said, I will admit that I do NOT remember Michael being described as a tall, good looking blonde; or the part where Michael and Tom tell Carlo to get his shit together with regard to Connie! I do remember, like I mentioned upthread, that Vito was described as a homely man, though. BUT, since I had just seen this movie, I just pictured, Brando, Caan, Pacino, Duvall, Keaton, Vigoda, Shire, etc. as I read the book.

[VCRTracking]

All I remember from Bridemaid's story from the book was that there was a good section where she and Johnny hooked up. So glad that that was left out of the movie, as it didn't add to anything.

 

In the director commentary Francis Ford Coppola said he didn't want to do the book at first because of the lurid subplot with Lucy Mancini(the bridesmaid) who gets an operation on her private parts to make them smaller and then the doctor who performs the surgery becomes her lover and so on. I don't have his exact commentary quote but it was like  "I couldn't believe how many pages were devoted to this when I read the book!" Then he realized when you cut that stuff out it was really a great story about a "king and his three sons" so he decided to focus the movie about that.

Edited January 27, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Dejana]

In the director commentary Francis Ford Coppola said he didn't want to do the book at first because of the lurid subplot with Lucy Mancini(the bridesmaid) who gets an operation on her private parts to make them smaller and then the doctor who performs the surgery becomes her lover and so on. I don't have his exact commentary quote but it was like "I couldn't believe how many pages were devoted to this when I read the book!" Then he realized when you cut that stuff out it was really a great story about a "king and his three sons" so he decided to focus the movie about that.

Yes, that's what I meant by "interesting". That storyline definitely caught my attention...not in a good way, though it gave some context to part at the wedding reception where Sonny's wife is laughing with the other women, demonstrating with her hands.

[GHScorpiosRule]

AHA! I knew I wasn't going crazy! I just started to re-read The Godfather last night, and Michael is NOT described as a tall, blonde! The description of Michael fits Al Pacino to a fucking T!  So I don't know what Coppola was talking about when he said that Michael was described as a blonde in the book; or that the suits at Paramount wanted Redford or O'Neal, because they matched the description!

 

Now Carlo? He was described as a blue-eyed blonde.

 

I'm not one to nitpick book v. movie, because I learned my lesson after watching The Firm. Saw the movie first and then read the book and was pissed because of the changes and that where the movie ended was like, the halfway point of the book. Anyhoo, that said, I am happy with the slight changes they made so far, or rather, don't have a problem with them. I'm up to where Vito gets shot.

 

I do have to say that I don't like Fredo being called Freddie, heh. So, in my mind, I hear "Fredo" and "Michael" at the numberous times I read "Mike." And I hear Brando's voice, Pacino's, Caan's, and Duval's.

[VCRTracking]

So I don't know what Coppola was talking about when he said that Michael was described as a blonde in the book; or that the suits at Paramount wanted Redford or O'Neal, because they matched the description!

 

I don't remember him saying that. I do remember him saying Paramount wanted Redford and O'Neal and trying to convince him saying "Well, there are blonde Italians" and Coppola was saying that's true but in his mind when he read the book and the part where Michael is in Sicily walking with his two bodyguards, he pictured "Al's face". That it was the "face of Sicily", so that's why he pushed so hard for Pacino to be cast despite the studio and especially head Robert Evans' objections.

 

I'm not one to nitpick book v. movie, because I learned my lesson after watching The Firm. Saw the movie first and then read the book and was pissed because of the changes and that where the movie ended was like, the halfway point of the book.

 

I remember having the same reaction when I read The Firm after seeing the movie first.  I liked that in the movie Tom Cruise's wife finds out about the affair he had whereas in the book she remains ignorant.

Edited January 28, 2016 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't remember him saying that. I do remember him saying Paramount wanted Redford and O'Neal and trying to convince him saying "Well, there are blonde Italians" and Coppola was saying that's true but in his mind when he read the book and the part where Michael is in Sicily walking with his two bodyguards, he pictured "Al's face". That it was the "face of Sicily", so that's why he pushed so hard for Pacino to be cast despite the studio and especially head Robert Evans' objections.

 

All that is true, and I was totally rolling my eyes at the suits at Paramount wanting them, because as much as I love Redford, I just could NOT imagine him as Michael; forget about O'Neal. I laughed at the notion of him as Michael, but Coppola did say how Michael was described as blonde in the book in the special features of how the movie almost never got made in the bluray I have of all three movies. Which is why it was head scratching, because I didn't recall at ALL that Michael was described as blonde.  To be specific, Coppola said Michael was a "tall blonde" and Pacino was dark, and not so tall.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Just to clarify:  It was Alex Rocco, who portrayed Moe Green, had mob connections -- back when he was called Alex Petricone.  ;-)

 

Lol!  fair enough.  How's about the revision - additional text in brackets:  did you guys know that {{the guy who played Moe Green}} (Alex Rocco) was a real life lightweight gangster...?

[Shriekingeel]

Re: the revenge beating for Bonasera's daughter. In the book, as in the movie, Vito assigns people for the job, but in the book he insists that all blows must avoid the back and side of the head because that could kill them, and that wouldn't be just since they had not killed anyone.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

In regards to Carlo....

Dude thought marrying Connie would guarantee him a come up.

Resulting in him being involved in the family biz.

When that didn't happen, he took out his frustrations on Connie.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Carlo's motivation is provided more clearly in the book; that he thought he was marrying "royalty" when he married Connie and expected to be brought into the bidnez; that it was Sonny beating the shit out of him in front of his (Carlo's) men, that had him ripe and willing to agree to kill Sonny, when Barzini called. And of course, in the book, in the very beginning we're told that Vito wasn't happy with Connie's choice of a husband.

 

And naturally, I've beeng Googling to find out about the cat! Turns out, it was a stray Brando found on the Paramount lot during filming, which was completed in two months' time.  And kitty was just so happy with Brando and purring, to the point that said purring was so loud, Brando's dialogue had to be looped in!

 

And thanks to the FAQ on IMDB, I was able to get the translation of the conversation between Michael and Sollozo at the diner.  I only understood two words from Sallazo: business and your father, and that Michael was saying "how do you say...?" before he reverted back to speaking in English. Very inconsistent. The Sicily scenes provided subtitles, as did what Comare said when Sonny told her that Vito had been shot.

 

I do have to say that I Michael looked absolutely gobsmacked when he first sees Apollonia.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Michael fell hard for Apollonia, definitely love at first sight.

It appears that Fabrizio was also smitten.

Had Michael looked at me that way , my panties would've flew off.

Pacino was smoldering hot back then.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Pacino was smoldering hot back then.

Both Pacino and DeNiro= ROWR!!!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Both Pacino and DeNiro= ROWR!!!

Michael, Young Vito and Tessio were very easy on the eyes.

Oh and that guy Enzo too.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Young Tessio was played by John Aprea- who I remember from Matt Houston, and who played John Stamos's dad in Full House.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

John Aprea was also on the soap Another World.

[GHScorpiosRule]

John Aprea was also on the soap Another World.

D'OH! Right!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

This saga also had to deal with a actors wanting more $$$$ to return.

Robert Duvall

The actor that played Clemenza.

As I recall, money wasn't the issue with Brando.

Wasn't it hard to get James Caan to return for that flashback?

[VCRTracking]

I wiki'd these bits of info:
 

James Caan agreed to reprise the role of Sonny in the birthday flashback sequence, demanding he be paid the same amount he received for the entire previous film for the single scene in Part II, which he received.

 

Marlon Brando initially agreed to return for the birthday flashback sequence, but the actor, feeling mistreated by the board at Paramount, failed to show up for the single day's shooting; Coppola rewrote the scene that same day.

 

Richard Castellano, who portrayed Peter Clemenza in the first film, also declined to return, as he and the producers could not reach an agreement on his demands that he be allowed to write the character's dialogue in the film. The part in the plot originally intended for the latter-day Clemenza was then filled by the character of Frank Pentangeli, played by Michael V. Gazzo.

 

 

Patton Oswalt just tweeted this a few hours ago and I have to say that always bugged me too:

 

Patton Oswalt ‏@pattonoswalt 2h2 hours ago

I can't sleep.

Why'd they pick CLEMENZA to climb all those flights of stairs to shotgun Don Victor Stracci? #walkingheartattack

 

 

[revbfc]

I'm glad that Brando let his pride get in the way of being in the flashback. I felt the love for Vito from everyone on the screen, and when everybody ran to door except Michael, you could feel his loss. Showing that scene last doesn't feel weird in this chronological edit. That flashback is what was happening in Michael's by the end of the movie.

[benteen]

LOL on Clemenza climbing those stairs.  Oswalt is absolutely right.  Don Stracci...I always love the way Pacino says that name at the end of Godfather.

 

That Godfather II script includes the original flashback with the Don appearing in it.  I would have loved to have seen Brando again but the scene is great with James Caan and a chance to get Sonny, Michael, Tom and Fredo together in one scene.

 

The original scene would have bookended a final scene that would have took place in 1969 with an older, diabetic Michael and his teenage son.

 

Interesting fact about Richard Castellano, he was actually the highest paid actor in the first Godfather movie.  Brando took a percentage of the box office gross so his actual salary was small.  Pacino, Duvall, Caan, Keaton, etc. were still not well-known or that established at the time.  Castellano had been nominated for an Oscar two years earlier for a role he played in a film called Lovers and Other Strangers.

Edited January 29, 2016 by benteen

[GHScorpiosRule]

But that wasn't Stracci that Clemenza killed-it was Phillip Tattaglia! I'd recognize that fat moustachiod pimp anywhere! Well, that and the fact I've just watched the first movie three times in a row the past week!

1. First the epic

2. Then the bluray

3. Then just The Godfather portion from the Epic

And I counted at least 21 deleted scenes.

Obsessed? Who, me?

Edited January 29, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[VCRTracking]

But that wasn't Stracci that Clemenza killed-it was Phillip Tattaglia! I'd recognize that fat moustachiod pimp anywhere! Well, that and the fact I've just watched the first movie three times in a row the past week!

 

Tattaglia was the one who got machine gunned in bed with a woman by Rocco Lampone and another Corleone soldier.

 

The guy in front is Stracci. The guy behind him with the mustache isn't Tattaglia.

Edited January 29, 2016 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

Tattaglia was the one who got machine gunned in bed with a woman by Rocco Lampone and another Corleone soldier.

 

The guy in front is Stracci. The guy behind him with the mustache isn't Tattaglia.

 

I'm BLAMING INSOMNIA!!!!! why I thought it was Pete who killed Tattaglia (who was in bed with some floozie), I don't know! But yeah, elevator, Stracci, and the revolving doors, where Cicci (who later turned against Michael at the Congressional hearings), killed...Don Cuneo.

 

I always laugh at Barzini's death scene. The way the actor just pauses and stands still, before he falls down the steps. It reminds of a Tom & Jerry cartoon when Tom or sometimes Jerry, would give these hyperbolic sounds when they think they've been "killed" and draw out their "death" scenes.

 

As for Brando being a no show for the last scene in Godfather II, Coppola said how they hoped he would show up, but when he didn't by the deadline, they filmed it without him, and it still worked, because you could still sense/feel Vito's presence.

 

And yeah, he didn't go into specifics, but Castellano not being there was due to money and other stuff.

 

I have to thank of yous!  I haven't watched these movies in quite some time and am enjoying discussing and gushing and debating them with you! My best friend was here the other night, and we were talking about the movies as well, having a great time!

 

I think I'll have a Godfather party when my dad comes to visit later this year! Hee!

Edited January 29, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[MrsRafaelBarba]

The Godfather Saga is a gift that keeps on giving.

You can always catch something new, that was missed before.

For me, the symbolism with Oranges.

The double take and pained look on Fabrizio's face.

When Michael States his intentions to marry Apollonia to her father.

[VCRTracking]

Vito's wife Carmella isn't mentioned a lot and she's not even named in the movies but just known as "Mama". In the book she has a strong Italian accent but Morgana King the actress had a New York accent which I think works just as well. I love how in Part II how she tells Connie in that accent: "You go see your children first, and then you worry about waiting in line to see your brother. Like everybody else." There's that great deleted scene in Part I where after Vito is shot Sonny comes in to the house to tell his mom and she takes the knew she doesn't get hysterical, she reacts like she knew it would happen sooner of later and asks in Italian "Santino did they kill your father?" and when he tells her he doesn't know she  says sadly in English  "I'm going to go change, in case we can see him."

 

I also love in the flashbacks in Part II, after young Vito kills Fanucci and becomes the new Don of the neighborhood, she just rolls with it and brings in her friend who's being kicked out of her apartment so that Vito can fix things.

Edited January 29, 2016 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

This time I know I'm right--that is, according to my closed captioning, and subtitles on my bluray--that Mama's name is Comare.

 

What I found amusing about both Vito and Comare's lack of an Italian/Sicilian accent is that they were both immigrants, both spoke Italian during their formative and young adult years, were surrounded by other Sicilians and Italians (that we were shown), yet roughly 20 years later or so, no trace of an accent! Even in the book, Puzo stayes Vito only has a slight accent.

 

I also love in the flashbacks in Part II, after young Vito kills Fanucci and becomes the new Don of the neighborhood, she just rolls with it and brings in her friend who's being kicked out of her apartment so that Vito can fix things.

 

I LOVE that scene! That she is very much aware what her husband does, but doesn't butt into his business, yet goes to him to use his influence and power to get her friends justice!

Edited January 29, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[benteen]

In an old interview before he died, Mario Puzo said he opposed FFD's idea of killing Fredo.  He resisted it before he realized it was the right move for the story.  But he's the one who said that he had to do it after Mama Corleone died because in his words the audience wouldn't forgive Michael if he killed Fredo while his mother was still alive.

[revbfc]

Commare is the female equivalent of godfather.

[GHScorpiosRule]

The Godfather Saga is a gift that keeps on giving.

You can always catch something new, that was missed before.

This is so true! For me, it was paying attention and looking at Michael's eyes in the diner right before he killed Sollozzo and McKluskey--you see his eyes flicking back and forth, back and forth--it was him waiting to listen to the sound of the oncoming train and when the sound was at its peak or the loudest, is when he pulled out the gun and shot them. So many of my previous viewings, I never noticed that until watching this Epic. Or Vito's/Brando's hand gestures.

 

I have to really exert my practically non-existent willpower, because I am thisclose to picking up my remote and hitting the On Demand button to watch this again!

 

Commare is the female equivalent of godfather.

I didn't know that! I learned something new today!

Edited January 29, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Gotta give a shout out to Widow Andolini.

She went to the man that ordered the deaths of her hubby and eldest son.

To plead for the life of her youngest child Vito.

Chick was packin a blade, in case things went bad.

Sadly she died, but he escaped and made it to America.

[Inquisitionist]

I don't recall the term/title comare, however, being used in the movie or the book.  Mamma Corleone (as the character is listed in IMDb) may have been the literal godmother of the same child/children to whom Don Corleone acted as godfather, but I understood his title of Godfather to refer to his "business" position.  She was not part of the business, as I recall.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Inquisitionist

[GHScorpiosRule]

No, she wasn't involved or part of Vito's business. That much is true.

 

And that did it. I now have to go back and watch to see where she's called that--because I'm certain no one did, but just that the subtitles would show Comare: insert her dialogue here, that movies/shows sometimes do when more than one person is having a conversation, so that one knows who is speaking which lines.

 

I'm pretty certain that this term was used in Godfather II. Actually, when she brought her friend to Vito, about that mean and miserly landlord, who wanted to evict her.

 

Sigh. It will be such a chore to sit down and watch, while having a nice glass of wine.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I was wrong. Comare was used by that ungrateful asshole, undertaker, Amerigo Bonasera.  When Tom called him to tell him the Don needed him to fulfill a service, he's bitching to his wife, that Vito would probably get him killed by the other Families, because Bonasera was probably going to have to hide a body or something. And he said he regrets the day that "Comare Corleone" became friends with his wife.  

 

Even in the book, I've yet to see what her name is, as Vito only refers to her as "his wife."

 

And I'm totally ignoring how the timeline doesn't match up to Sonny and Michael's ages.  The movie did a good job in changing the difference between Sonny and Michael so that the years leading up to Connie's wedding day and then onwards make sense, I mean, in the book, Michael is described as a toddler, roughly 8 years before Connie's wedding. And Sonny is 16, but in the beginning of the book, we're told he's 35, which would put him at early 20's 8-9 years before and not 16. If I think too hard, it will give me a headache, so I'm not even going to think about it.

 

Or the other goof in the movie itself regarding the rug Clemenza and Vito stole and how could that be Santino and not Fredo. Notgonnathinkaboutit.

 

And yous guys! Why didn't you correct me like you have on the other stuff I got wrong? That we did see Fabrizio get blowed up in this epic? Except, how come he wasn't blown up into a million pieces? He was able to crawl out of the car, body intact, crawl a little and then die? Pfft.  Michael should have been there to blow him up. Just so Fabrizio would know it was coming and that he had to pay and Michael never forgot.

 

And damn. But Pacino's Michael in Godfather II is a LOT scarier than he was after Vito died in Godfather.

 

And I really, really want to know what Comare said to Tom at the table about Fredo's wife, when she was making a fool of herself. All we get is a lousy "speaking Italian" in my closed captions! But I do know it wasn't anything nice.

Edited February 1, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[VCRTracking]

I always found it morbidly funny in Part II of Al Neri after murdering a prostitute, walking into shot, drying his hands in the bathroom in full view of the freaked out senator they're trying to make believe he was the one who did while he was blacked out! It was just to let the audience know Neri was the real killer but like he really should have found another place to wash his hands! I like Tom Hagen moving his head and mouthing "Get out of here!"

Edited January 31, 2016 by VCRTracking

[revbfc]

I've always wondered if Pentangeli had that clarinet player beaten up for the whole "Pop Goes The Weasel" business.

(Edited because I stupidly identified a clarinet as an oboe)

Edited February 1, 2016 by revbfc

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, so I'm about at the part (in the book) where Michael returns from Sicily, back to New York.  I like the changes Copolla made to Comare Corleone. She's not presented as such a stereo type, and I much prefer how Morgana King played her, as well as the actress who played the younger Comare.

 

I had read somewhere, IMDB, I think, a topic that Book!Kay was much better, and after just reading the scenes between her and Michael after Michael comes back, and how it was changed for the movie, my opinion is that book!Kay was so pathetic, the way she reacted to seeing Michael again.

 

My cable provider says it will keep this Epic up for viewing until February 16! Boo! I was hoping it would be one of the movies that would remain available indefinitely!

[topanga]

 

I had read somewhere, IMDB, I think, a topic that Book!Kay was much better, and after just reading the scenes between her and Michael after Michael comes back, and how it was changed for the movie, my opinion is that book!Kay was so pathetic, the way she reacted to seeing Michael again.

So Kay in the book was even more pathetic than she is in the movie? Sheesh. I do think Kay had a right to be perplexed by the changes in Michael after he returned from Sicily. But she agreed to marry him, and once she saw what a monster he became during her marriage, you'd think she'd be a little more careful around him, knowing who his friends and associates were. I know she was angry when she yelled that she'd had an abortion because she didn't want to carry another child of his, but I thought Kay was a little smarter than that. I was certainly disappointed. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yup. In the book, (I'm going to spoiler just in case there are those who haven't read the book but will now)

Michael doesn't approach Kay at all, a year after he returns from Sicily.  In fact, she's been calling his mother for two years, asking about him, but his mother just tells Kay to just marry someone else.  So, when Michael's been back for six months, and Kay tells Comare that Michael hasn't even called her, Comare tells Kay to come to Long Beach to visit her, not Michael. It's when she's drinking coffee that Michael sees her through the kitchen window. When he comes inside, instead of reading him the riot act, she bursts into tears and runs into his arms, and then they both leave for a hotel and have sex. She is told that he is a gangster, and that she will never be Michael's life partner, just his wife, and the mother of his children, and still she agrees to marry him, as we find out later. But in this scene, she doesn't give him an answer, except to say let's have more sex, because she's been celibate these two years, and Michael only for the past six months.

 

To be honest, I prefer the Movie!characters to the book!characters!

Edited February 1, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Someone mentioned Al Neri, really curious about that character.

Would've liked to see what made him go to the bad side of the law. After being a cop. Was it explained in the book?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Someone mentioned Al Neri, really curious about that character.

Would've liked to see what made him go to the bad side of the law. After being a cop. Was it explained in the book?

 

 

I haven't gotten to that part yet, but if it is explained, I'll let you know. Though, I don't remember hearing that he used to be a cop. I just remember Vito telling Michael that it looked like he found his own Luca Brasi.

 

And I didn't come across anything yet where Tom or Michael told Carlo to get his shit together.  There was the part where Tom tells Carlo about Sonny being dead, but nothing like I imagined I would read when y'all posted upthread that Tom and Michael both told Carlo to "behave" if you know what I mean. I was disappointed at the actual dialogue, but I suppose since Carlo was able to read between the lines and get what Tom was saying, that should have satisfied me.  But it didn't!!!!

 

Ah well.

[Dejana]

So Kay in the book was even more pathetic than she is in the movie? Sheesh. I do think Kay had a right to be perplexed by the changes in Michael after he returned from Sicily. But she agreed to marry him, and once she saw what a monster he became during her marriage, you'd think she'd be a little more careful around him, knowing who his friends and associates were. I know she was angry when she yelled that she'd had an abortion because she didn't want to carry another child of his, but I thought Kay was a little smarter than that. I was certainly disappointed. 

 

 

Yup. In the book, (I'm going to spoiler just in case there are those who haven't read the book but will now)

Michael doesn't approach Kay at all, a year after he returns from Sicily.  In fact, she's been calling his mother for two years, asking about him, but his mother just tells Kay to just marry someone else.  So, when Michael's been back for six months, and Kay tells Comare that Michael hasn't even called her, Comare tells Kay to come to Long Beach to visit her, not Michael. It's when she's drinking coffee that Michael sees her through the kitchen window. When he comes inside, instead of reading him the riot act, she bursts into tears and runs into his arms, and then they both leave for a hotel and have sex. She is told that he is a gangster, and that she will never be Michael's life partner, just his wife, and the mother of his children, and still she agrees to marry him, as we find out later. But in this scene, she doesn't give him an answer, except to say let's have more sex, because she's been celibate these two years, and Michael only for the past six months.

 

To be honest, I prefer the Movie!characters to the book!characters!

 

I didn't like Kay at all but especially in the movie. When she dates Michael it's the mid-1940s, so even if the myth of the mafia wasn't what it became in later years, it's not like she wouldn't have been familiar with bootleggers and bank robbers, how the feds like to go after them and that it often doesn't end well for them. It's obvious the Corleones are gangsters of some sort from what Michael tells her about his family at the wedding, not to mention the attempt on Vito's life. If she really had a problem with that she shouldn't have married him to begin with, but she wouldn't be the first woman to make a bad decision out of love.

 

Did Kay ever learn about Apollonia?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I didn't like Kay at all but especially in the movie. When she dates Michael it's the mid-1940s, so even if the myth of the mafia wasn't what it became in later years, it's not like she wouldn't have been familiar with bootleggers and bank robbers, how the feds like to go after them and that it often doesn't end well for them. It's obvious the Corleones are gangsters of some sort from what Michael tells her about his family at the wedding, not to mention the attempt on Vito's life. If she really had a problem with that she shouldn't have married him to begin with, but she wouldn't be the first woman to make a bad decision out of love.

Did Kay ever learn about Apollonia?

Not in the movie. I agree that Kay was stupid and naive in the movie, but she's even stupider in the book because she says it outright that Michael and his family are gangsters and she knows he killed Sollozzo and McKluskey and marries him anyway, whereas Michaek doesn't admit that to her even though it's obvious. Okay, both versions are stupid.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Michael tells Kay about his first marriage in Godfather III.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Michael tells Kay about his first marriage in Godfather III.

 

Ah! See, the movie I pretty much bleached/blanked from my mind. Except for a select few scenes. Vincent biting off Mantegna's ear, the icky incest, (God, I wish I could forget that whole thing), Michael's "Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in" and then goes into a diabetic shock...Talia, I mean, Connie proving she's a motherfuckingbadass when she poison's Eli Wallach's character...an everything else I don't remember. Oh. That Vincent has his father's temper. Quelle Shock.