The Godfather Epic

[CaughtOnTape]

On 6/1/2017 at 1:05 AM, voiceover said:

This is simply one of the best things ever written about The Godfather.

I'm not even bitter that I didn't think of it first.

I always thought, due to the misogynistic undertones, that the crying babies were an indication that the women in the family turned a blind eye to what their men were doing because they had kids and households to take care of.  

On 6/4/2017 at 8:29 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

I guess he had limited success with that plan - she does well in the role, but there's not a whole lot of personality in Kay (well, until she gets some great scenes in Part II, when Kay finally realizes "hey, wait, all of this is terrible and wrong!")

I still don't get why Kay was so willing to marry into this family.  She knows they're incredibly secretive and Michael has told her just enough to know they are dangerous.  Then Michael disappears for a year or so amid an attempt on his father's life and headlines about the subsequent murder of two people (including a cop).  Then Michael turns up and apparently expects her to pick up where they left off.  He's not the same young man she was in love with, she knows these people are dangerous ... what was she thinking?  Does the book explain it better?  Do her parents object to the marriage? 

Also, Sofia Coppola aside ... could anyone make this role work?  Mary is just dumb.  I guess they were going for pure and innocent ... except that she wanted to bone her incredibly violent first cousin, I guess.   But since she was just there to ultimately die, I guess they didn't really bother to make her a realistic person.  

It was a different time.  Late 40s/Early 50s women were still expected just to get married and have babies.  Was Michael the man she loved?  No.  But he did come back for her, something I'm sure she convinced herself was a super romantic gesture rather than incredibly manipulative.  I always thought she had deluded herself into believing he was still the boy who told her "That's my family, Kay.  That's not me." and didn't realize he'd changed until it was too late for her to do anything about it.  I read the book years ago but from what I remember, it didn't do a whole lot to explain her motivations.  

[SlovakPrincess]

In a tepid defense of Sofia Coppola, I will say she does a far, far better job of acting dead (especially with Pacino pawing at her and flopping her around while she has to remain still) than Andy Garcia does of acting upset about it.  He just barks out "No! Mary! No!" without much emotion and then stands there looking mildly put out.  

Just watched this clip again, and it's like you can see Garcia thinking "wait a minute, this ending is hot garbage.  Ugh.  Can I go now?"  I've loved him in other things, but this was not a good performance.

[AimingforYoko]

7 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

 I've loved him in other things, but this was not a good performance.

Parts of it were good. I liked his, "Right? RIGHT?!?" To Joe Zasa.

[voiceover]

Saw it (the first one) on the big screen tonight.  Sadly, it was in one of those "waiter service" theaters, so THAT annoyed.

My biggest takeaway from this version?  ManOhMan, Brando looked young.

Possibly because I'm now older than he was when he made it.

Also: Damn babies.

[VCRTracking]

8 hours ago, voiceover said:

My biggest takeaway from this version?  ManOhMan, Brando looked young.

He was actually much younger than the character IRL. Brando was in his 40s but they used a lot of makeup to make him look like 60 something Vito Corleone:

Edited June 8, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Spartan Girl]

Well, damn.

[VCRTracking]

Al Pacino at Diane Keaton's AFI award:

[VCRTracking]

I realized the reason the audience(and that includes me) accept Michael forgetting about Kay and wanting to marry Apollonia at first sight is she symbolically represents Sicily. It's Michael returning to the land where his family came from and fully embracing his roots. Kay represents WASP America. The reason Coppola said he fought to cast Pacino when many people in the studio were against it was he pictured someone with Al's face in those scenes of Michael walking in Sicily. Also the movie version of their courtship is much more romantic than what was described by Mario Puzo in the book.

Edited April 22, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Tenshinhan]

17 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Also the movie version of their courtship is much more romantic than what was described by Mario Puzo in the book.

I think this could be said about the entire movie in contrast with the book.

I'd still like to see someone try adapting the novel again.  Whether it be a trilogy of films or a television series, I think it would be a worthy venture.

[VCRTracking]

I was late in the Memoriam thread commenting on the passing of Morgana King, who played the Don's wife Carmela, aka "Mama Corleone" in The Godfather Pts 1 and 2. She died last March but the news was only announced yesterday. She was primarily a jazz singer. I love her singing "Luna Mezzo Mare" at the opening wedding in part 1. Also in Part II where she admonishes Connie at the Communion party "You go see your children first, and then worry about waiting on line to see you're brother. Like everybody else." Or at the dinner tale when she makes a contemptuous comment about Connie's fiancee and Fredo's wife in Sicilian to Tom Hagen!

Edited August 16, 2018 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

Mama Corleone was BADASS!!!

[Spartan Girl]

On August 16, 2018 at 2:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Mama Corleone was BADASS!!!

She really was. Her part may have been small, but they gave her a lot more of a nuanced portrayal than the usual "look the other way" mafia wife trope.

[VCRTracking]

On 8/16/2018 at 11:27 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Mama Corleone was BADASS!!!

 

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

She really was. Her part may have been small, but they gave her a lot more of a nuanced portrayal than the usual "look the other way" mafia wife trope.

In a Gifset of the Mrs Columbo scene from Part II posted on Tumblr someone with the ID named "Showmethesneer" said this apt comment:
 

Quote

 

This is the best sequence in the whole movie. Because it shows how his wife was behind the whole definition of his reign. She’s like “look I’m not fucking stupid. I know that we get treated differently now and you’re this important guy in the neighbourhood now, but it don’t mean a goddamn thing if you’re not gonna use your power to help the ones in need. So who are you gonna be? Are you gonna be the guy who kills the bully and just replaces him? Or are you gonna be the guy who helps a poor widow for no other reason than it’s the right thing to do?”

The reason Vito is who he is is because early in his career, his wife stepped in and reminded him of his own humanity. Plus the part when the slumlord is groveling is hilarious.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I sat down to watch The Godfather II and then The Godfather, respectively last week. Cuz I wanted to see that scene where Young Mama Corleone is telling Vito, (and I never fail to swoon and ?????????? at how HAWT and Sexay DeNiro is) why he should be concerned and “convince” the cheap landlord not to evict her friend. And how said landlord is tripping over himself with fear, nearly pissing his pants as he tries to open the door when he leaves!?????????? And then Genco walks over and lifts the door!!???? Love that the widow not only gets to keep the dog, but her rent is also reduced. And the smile of amusement on Vito’s face!!!

I was bummed that the Epic is no longer on HBO, which aired the deleted scenes-how Mama asks Sonny is Vito is dead after he tells her “Pop’s been shot.” How she just stands there and says how she needs to finish what she was doing in the kitchen (I think.)

Or that stupid, whining mortician, whining and blaming his wife for ever becoming friends with Mama after Tom called him to do the Don a service. And it turned out Vito wanted him to make Sonny look presentable. I always tear up when Vito says “Look how they massacred my boy.”

But since the movies are now on Netflix, they only have the theatrical versions. BOO!

[Brooklynista]

17 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So I sat down to watch The Godfather II and then The Godfather, respectively last week. Cuz I wanted to see that scene where Young Mama Corleone is telling Vito, (and I never fail to swoon and ?????????? at how HAWT and Sexay DeNiro is) why he should be concerned and “convince” the cheap landlord not to evict her friend. And how said landlord is tripping over himself with fear, nearly pissing his pants as he tries to open the door when he leaves!?????????? And then Genco walks over and lifts the door!!???? Love that the widow not only gets to keep the dog, but her rent is also reduced. And the smile of amusement on Vito’s face!!!

I was bummed that the Epic is no longer on HBO, which aired the deleted scenes-how Mama asks Sonny is Vito is dead after he tells her “Pop’s been shot.” How she just stands there and says how she needs to finish what she was doing in the kitchen (I think.)

Or that stupid, whining mortician, whining and blaming his wife for ever becoming friends with Mama after Tom called him to do the Don a service. And it turned out Vito wanted him to make Sonny look presentable. I always tear up when Vito says “Look how they massacred my boy.”

But since the movies are now on Netflix, they only have the theatrical versions. BOO!

My memory is so fuzzy! I think  Momma quietly wipes her hands on her apron and says she has to get ready because people will be coming to the house. She never buckled or cried, she just knew what being the wife of Vito meant and what needed to be done. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

My memory is so fuzzy! I think  Momma quietly wipes her hands on her apron and says she has to get ready because people will be coming to the house. She never buckled or cried, she just knew what being the wife of Vito meant and what needed to be done. 

YES! That’s what she said in English after asking Sonny if they had killed their father in Italian. I love that scene soooo much.

[Spartan Girl]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Or that stupid, whining mortician, whining and blaming his wife for ever becoming friends with Mama after Tom called him to do the Don a service.

Seriously.  Dude, you wanted justice for your daughter, just do the favor and be damn grateful for it.

[VCRTracking]

8 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

My memory is so fuzzy! I think  Momma quietly wipes her hands on her apron and says she has to get ready because people will be coming to the house. She never buckled or cried, she just knew what being the wife of Vito meant and what needed to be done. 

 

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

YES! That’s what she said in English after asking Sonny if they had killed their father in Italian. I love that scene soooo much.

She says "I'm going to go change, in case we can see him." Also what I like is when Sonny tells her "Pop's been hurt. I don't know how bad." she asks in Italian "Santino, did they kill your father?" Like she's not been ignorant of his work always been prepared for this possibility. As I posted earlier, Morgana King wasn't an actress, she was a singer but she embodied that strong Sicilian wife. In a "Behind the Scenes" featurette they made at the time

She shows she knows her character and role in the story when she says at the 2:15 mark:

Quote

"She's been with a winner. He's always been on top of the situation and they have this large family of children that they love very deeply. She's very, very involved with his life, but she doesn't involve his life into the family picture. That's outside. It always remains outside."

Edited August 29, 2018 by VCRTracking

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh man! Now I wish that those scenes with Sonny and Tom dancing with Mama at Connie’s wedding had made the cut! Along with the one with Vito smiling and laughing with Connie as he danced with her, instead of the serious yet loving look he gave her.

I also wish they’d shown Vito playing with the cat in addition to telling the whiny ungrateful mortician had he asked for friendship years ago, the boys that beat his daughter would be suffering.

I think my Blu-ray has the extra scenes I’m wanting to watch, so I’ll pull that out.

I KNOW I’m supposed to hold the Corleones in contempt, but I just love them.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh man! Now I wish that those scenes with Sonny and Tom dancing with Mama at Connie’s wedding had made the cut! Along with the one with Vito smiling and laughing with Connie as he danced with her, instead of the serious yet loving look he gave her.

I also wish they’d shown Vito playing with the cat in addition to telling the whiny ungrateful mortician had he asked for friendship years ago, the boys that beat his daughter would be suffering.

I think my Blu-ray has the extra scenes I’m wanting to watch, so I’ll pull that out.

I KNOW I’m supposed to hold the Corleones in contempt, but I just love them.

Dude, I want Vito and Carmella to be my grandparents. If that's not wrong, I don't want to be right.

Actually the scene with Vito and little Anthony in the garden did remind me of my late grandpa. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Spartan Girl said:

Dude, I want Vito and Carmella to be my grandparents. If that's not wrong, I don't know what is.

Actually the scene with Vito and little Anthony in the garden did remind me of my late grandpa. 

I KNOW! I remember when I was watching this for the first time, I kept asking my dad if Vito died and how? My Dad was an usher at the movie theatre in New York when Godfather came out and he’d just immigrated to the U.S. He saw this multiple times. A small part of me thought Vito would be murdered, so though I was sad when Vito died-and ALONE(!??) at least it was from natural causes. The make-up people did a great job showing how Vito’s own shooting and  Sonny’s murder aged him even more.

[VCRTracking]

On 8/16/2018 at 10:48 AM, VCRTracking said:

I a

 

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by VCRTracking

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I KNOW! I remember when I was watching this for the first time, I kept asking my dad if Vito died and how? My Dad was an usher at the movie theatre in New York when Godfather came out and he’d just immigrated to the U.S. He saw this multiple times. A small part of me thought Vito would be murdered, so though I was sad when Vito died-and ALONE(!??) at least it was from natural causes. The make-up people did a great job showing how Vito’s own shooting and  Sonny’s murder aged him even more.

He died playing with his grandchild. That's as good a death as anybody could wish for, especially someone in his business.

Now Michael in Godfather Part III. He died a sad, lonely death!

On 8/28/2018 at 12:35 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

But since the movies are now on Netflix, they only have the theatrical versions. BOO!

I prefer the intercutting of Michael's storyline and young Vito's in part II. As Mamma Mia 2 demonstrated, it's a very effective structure!

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

He died playing with his grandchild. That's as good a death as anybody could wish for, especially someone in his business.

Now Michael in Godfather Part III. He died a sad, lonely death!

Well, he kind of deserved it. 

Is it petty that the one thing that makes me mad about the original movie was what they did to the horse? Kill all the rival families and corrupt cops, fine, but leave innocent animals alone!

[Sarah 103]

On 1/17/2016 at 8:55 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I know mob is bad, the mafia is heinous and a bunch of murderers, but I just love the first and second movies!

The first two movies are about power and wealthy and those can be sexy. Looking at the wedding and the power Vito has makes it all look cool. There's a sedective quality to it. Also, the first two movies are among the best American Cinema has created. They are works of art. 

On 2/2/2016 at 1:09 PM, benteen said:

We also get to learn about the Corleone family's glory years in the book.  That source material was originally going to be used for The Godfather, Part IV, which Coppola and Puzo were starting to develop before Puzo died in 2000.  It would have shown the rise of the Corleone family with Sonny (played by DiCaprio) contrasted against the complete destruction of the Corleone family in the present day under Vincent. 

The early stuff about rise of the Corleone family with Sonny starting to become more involved sounds like The Family Corleone by Ed Falco. It was a fantastic novel, which also has some great character moments for Tom, Fredo, and Michael. 

[VCRTracking]

A great video from the series "Lost in Translation" on the differences between the book and the original movie:

The verdict is unlike most book adaptations the movie was an improvement especially cutting the Lucy Mancini subplot!

Edited September 30, 2018 by VCRTracking

[BetterButter]

Francis Ford Coppola announces new director's cut of Godfather: Part III

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[AimingforYoko]

5 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

 

 

Can Jake play the hell out of that role? You're damn right he can.

[Spartan Girl]

A movie about the making of Godfather? Seriously?

[katha]

Yeah, I've also heard that Ben Affleck is involved in a project that deals with the making of "Chinatown" or something. Hollywood is really just mostly interested in looking endlessly at itself and celebrating its own importance.

[VCRTracking]

On the subject of the film, recently for the first time just on a whim I watched the movie with subtitles on. I was surprised at the part where Johnny Fontaine shows up at Connie's wedding and a suspicious Tom Hagen says "He's problably in trouble again." and the caption for Don Corleone's line was "He's a good godson." because for years I thought he said "He's a good guy, son." LOL!

Edited October 1, 2020 by VCRTracking

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

the caption for Don Corleone's line was "He's a good godson." because for years I thought he said "He's a good guy, son." LOL!

Most of Vito's dialogue should be CC'd.

[caracas1914]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:36 PM, BetterButter said:

Francis Ford Coppola announces new director's cut of Godfather: Part III

 

What?   He's cutting out all of Sofia's screentime?  🤪

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

 

What?   He's cutting out all of Sofia's screentime?  🤪

TBH the performance I don't like is Eli Wallach's as Don Altobello. He's a great actor and Tuco from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is one of my all time favorite characters but something about him in the movie irks me.  Even his death scene where he eats poison cannoli is cringy to me.

[Robert Lynch]

10 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

TBH the performance I don't like is Eli Wallach's as Don Altobello. He's a great actor and Tuco from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is one of my all time favorite characters but something about him in the movie irks me.  Even his death scene where he eats poison cannoli is cringy to me.

I had to laugh at his interpretation of an Italian mobster. It was so unnecessary. He acted more Jewish than Italian.

[VCRTracking]

Part 3 could have been great if Paramount had paid what Robert Duvall what he wanted. As it is it's pretty good. That ending has more meaning when you think about Michael screaming in anguish over his daughter played by Coppola's real daughter and was filmed just four years after the tragic death of his son Giancarlo in a boating accident. He was clearly working through some stuff.

Edited October 18, 2020 by VCRTracking

[txhorns79]

Quote

What?   He's cutting out all of Sofia's screentime?  🤪

Maybe they are going to CGI in a younger version of Winona Ryder, so the part can be played by who they originally wanted. 

[Robert Lynch]

On 10/19/2020 at 1:35 PM, txhorns79 said:

Maybe they are going to CGI in a younger version of Winona Ryder, so the part can be played by who they originally wanted. 

I wonde how that would work out?

[BetterButter]

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

20 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

 

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY???????

Hard Pass. A VERY Hard Pass.

[VCRTracking]

I'm curious if the new edit is does make it better. The first two are near perfect and shouldn't be touched but three could use an improvement.

[GHScorpiosRule]

42 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I'm curious if the new edit is does make it better. The first two are near perfect and shouldn't be touched but three could use an improvement.

I hated the third installation. But based on that teaser, which whatever fool wrote it, if that was the version that Coppolla wanted to release originally, then he should have done it then! He had enough clout by 1991. It's like authors who want to release updated versions of original stories because they want to change or release it with material that had to be edited out.

Just stop it already.

[VCRTracking]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I hated the third installation. But based on that teaser, which whatever fool wrote it, if that was the version that Coppolla wanted to release originally, then he should have done it then! He had enough clout by 1991. It's like authors who want to release updated versions of original stories because they want to change or release it with material that had to be edited out.

Just stop it already.

Coppola was still paying off his massive debt after "One From the Heart" bombed in 1981, and that's why he agreed to make a third Godfather movie. If had any real clout he would have gotten Paramount to pony up and pay Robert Duvall what he wanted. I think the only thing the studio didn't let him do though was name it "The Death of Michael Corleone".

[benteen]

Was that trailer the Sofia Coppolaless trailer?

I am not seeing this.  If he wanted a good movie the first time, he should have gotten Robert Duvall and a real actor to play Mary.  Even if he had that, he still needed a better story for the movie. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by benteen

[VCRTracking]

12 minutes ago, benteen said:

Was that trailer the Sofia Coppolaless trailer?

I am not seeing this.  If he wanted a good movie the first time, he should have gotten Robert Duvall and a real actor to play Mary.  Even if he had that, he still needed a better story for the movie. 

Paramount wouldn't pay Duvall what he wanted, Julia Roberts was unavailable and Winona Ryder got sick before filming. I'll see it on when it comes out on  streaming just because I'm curious what's changed.

[Spartan Girl]

So I did some digging and here’s the “difference” in the new cut:

The opening montage at the beginning of part 1 and 2 (the only REAL good parts of the movie IMO) is cut, along with the last bit of Michael dropping dead at the end. The new ending is just a clip of him elderly and alone. Because FFC wanted the “death of Michael Corleone” emotional or some bullshit like that.

That’s. About. It.

WTF, Coppola?! You had the perfect ending with Part II that made the point beautifully. You didn’t even NEED Part III or stupid Mary dying for that! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So I did some digging and here’s the “difference” in the new cut:

 

  Hide contents

The opening montage at the beginning of part 1 and 2 (the only REAL good parts of the movie IMO) is cut, along with the last bit of Michael dropping dead at the end. The new ending is just a clip of him elderly and alone. Because FFC wanted the “death of Michael Corleone” emotional or some bullshit like that.

 

That’s. About. It.

WTF, Coppola?! You had the perfect ending with Part II that made the point beautifully. You didn’t even NEED Part III or stupid Mary dying for that! 

HARD PASS.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

On 11/17/2020 at 1:40 PM, BetterButter said:

 

No One.

Literally. NO ONE!

 

Francis Ford Coppola...

 

Let me fix something that isn't Btokem.

Instead of  releasing the Chronological Saga that aired on HBO a few yrs back.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by MrsRafaelBarba

[VCRTracking]

I like Enzo the baker showing up again in 3.