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All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

turnitwayup

By turnitwayup
in The West Wing

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Lillybee
Lillybee

I am rewatching the end of this series because I needed the thought that a campaign can be run by decent people.

oceanblue
oceanblue

During the Bush administration, I think the Bartlet White House saved my sanity.  I need Sorkin to write a show about a working Congress.

Watcher0363
Watcher0363

I just rewatched The Supremes. That must be one of the most prescient television episodes ever written. The background talk literally predicted the future. They were worried about corporations gaining

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Fool to cry

Fool to cry

Rewatched the pilot and I don't know how Rob Lowe thought he was going to be the lead when it was clearly written as an ensemble show from the start. Especially when his plotline of being involved with an escort is the least interesting despite a winning turn from pre-House MD Lisa Edelstein. Also Moira Kelly really was like Chuck Cunningham, Randall Carver on Taxi, and Mark Brandawicz on Parks and Recreation wasn't she? I like her in other things but she just wasn't a good fit to the cast. It's either her character or I'm not buying Sorkin dialogue coming out of her mouth. I wonder if David Fincher hadn't made the young actors do a hundred takes on The Social Network they would sound just as awkward.  And boy Martin Sheen entrance in the last ten minutes still rocks. Yeah, the original plan to just see the President "occasionally" was thrown out after that!

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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

4 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Rewatched the pilot and I don't know how Rob Lowe thought he was going to be the lead when it was clearly written as an ensemble show from the start.

Was that his expectation or was that the original plan?  It's been so long but it seems to me that Lowe as the lead was the original premise but Sheen knocked it out of the park and the plan was reworked.  I could be remembering incorrectly.

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schnauzergirl

schnauzergirl

(edited)
2 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

Was that his expectation or was that the original plan?  It's been so long but it seems to me that Lowe as the lead was the original premise but Sheen knocked it out of the park and the plan was reworked.  I could be remembering incorrectly.

This was also my understanding, but those last 10 minutes of Martin Sheen changed everything.  Would have been a hugely different dynamic/ensemble with Sam as the lead character.

Edited by schnauzergirl
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Fool to cry

Fool to cry

(edited)
1 hour ago, schnauzergirl said:

This was also my understanding, but those last 10 minutes of Martin Sheen changed everything.  Would have been a hugely different dynamic/ensemble with Sam as the lead character.

What I like is once it became clear President Bartlett was going to be a main character Sorkin stops writing him as just the benevolent wise sage who's always right. He becomes more human. In the second episode he talks to his personal doctor he has become friends with about how he's uneasy dealing with his military advisors and he doesnt like violence. At the end of the episode when the doctor is killed by a foreign government his immediate reaction is to bomb them into the stone age amd the next episode is Leo and the joint chiefs talking him down. 

Edited by Fool to cry
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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

3 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

At the end of the episode when the doctor is killed by a foreign government his immediate reaction is to bomb them into the stone age amd the next episode is Leo and the joint chiefs talking him down. 

To this day I remember Leo's question word-for-word - "And do you think ratcheting up the body count is going to act as a deterrent?"

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Fool to cry

Fool to cry

(edited)

On to episodes 5 and 6 and holy crap Elizabeth Moss was sooooo young and she sounded even younger! When Mad Men premiered in 2007 I didn't know any of the actors except her. "That's Zoey Bartlett!"  Jon Hamm as Don Draper was the lead but Peggy was the audience surrogate into that world.

It's amazing that Stockard Channing had never met Martin Sheen before coming in the show. Their chemistry is incredible.

Amy Sherman-Palladino must have seen episode 1x13 and went "That's my Paris Gellar!" and "That's my Chilton principal!"

Edited by Fool to cry
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Skooma

Skooma

On 9/25/2024 at 12:43 PM, Fool to cry said:

On to episodes 5 and 6 and holy crap Elizabeth Moss was sooooo young and she sounded even younger! When Mad Men premiered in 2007 I didn't know any of the actors except her. "That's Zoey Bartlett!"  Jon Hamm as Don Draper was the lead but Peggy was the audience surrogate into that world.

It's amazing that Stockard Channing had never met Martin Sheen before coming in the show. Their chemistry is incredible.

Amy Sherman-Palladino must have seen episode 1x13 and went "That's my Paris Gellar!" and "That's my Chilton principal!"

FYI there is a yellow box upper left to The West Wing's 25th Anniversary where there is a re-watch there and more people posting like it is the active West Wing forum now.  Maybe re-post this there at least?

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txhorns79

txhorns79

On 9/25/2024 at 12:43 PM, Fool to cry said:

 

Amy Sherman-Palladino must have seen episode 1x13 and went "That's my Paris Gellar!" and "That's my Chilton principal!"

Liza Weil got her role as Paris after she auditioned for the part of Rory Gilmore, but lost it to Alexis Bledel.  Apparently ASP liked her audition so much, she created the role of Paris for her. 

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Macbeth1966

Macbeth1966

When I watched the pilot of The West Wing - I was struck by how white the entire staff was.  I know the majority of the actors playing the lead roles were white - but for the pilot the only person not white was Suzy Nakamura who played Cathy who was an aid to Sam.

The 3rd episode introduced Dule Hill as Charlie, John Amos as Admiral Percy Fitzwallace, and Devika Parikh as Bonnie - Toby's aide.

I do realize that this show first aired 25 years ago.  And if the show aired today - the lead actors would definitely not all be white.  And a good percentage of the supporting players would definitely be people of color.

When it came to the shooting - it was clear that Charlie was the intended target.  The Secret Service told him in the hospital that he was the target not Bartlet.

Charlie, rightfully acted out, due to the stress of the attempted assassination of his life.  Asking Bartlet why didn't he make the fundraising calls from his office - using the word damn.

But the only scene that accurately described what had happened to Charlie was when Bartlet told Toby, who was also struggling, that what they had witnessed was an attempted lynching of Charlie.

For me that scene needed to have Charlie there.  It was imperative that his character know that the people he worked for understood what truly had happened to him.  Because he understood the gravity of the situation.  

To have 2 white men discuss the lynching of a black man without the black man being there is problematic for me.  

Cloud9Shopper

Cloud9Shopper

On 9/24/2024 at 10:31 AM, schnauzergirl said:

This was also my understanding, but those last 10 minutes of Martin Sheen changed everything.  Would have been a hugely different dynamic/ensemble with Sam as the lead character.

I just started watching for the first time the other day (as soon as I heard it was back on Max because this is why I subscribed), and that was a very impactful moment to end the pilot on for me. I wasn’t the biggest fan of Sam from the jump but I have a long way to go so I won’t say too much otherwise. 

I’m already interested in seeing more Josh and Donna, and found CJ’s exasperation in the second episode about “the joke” relatable. Everything feels authentic with a nice balance of humor and I’m looking forward to more. 

Prior to this, I only saw the episode “Let Bartlett Be Bartlett” many years ago in college. I had a political science professor who loved The West Wing and we had to watch an episode in class and do an essay about it. This was so long ago that unfortunately I no longer recall the essay or why she picked this episode but it stuck with me. She was a wonderful professor, God rest her soul. 

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txhorns79

txhorns79

On 1/5/2025 at 3:57 PM, Macbeth1966 said:

 

For me that scene needed to have Charlie there.  It was imperative that his character know that the people he worked for understood what truly had happened to him.  Because he understood the gravity of the situation.  

I've been rewatching the first season.  I noticed that when Charlie interviews for the job, he notes he wanted to be a messenger instead of going to college so he would have time to be there for his sister after their mother had just died a few months before.  Despite that, he's given a job that will make it so he has little, if any, time for his sister.   

Also, why is a political operative like Mandy making any kind of recommendation to the President about how to handle a volatile Ruby Ridge-type situation?  It made no sense to me that she'd be involved.     

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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)
18 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I've been rewatching the first season.  I noticed that when Charlie interviews for the job, he notes he wanted to be a messenger instead of going to college so he would have time to be there for his sister after their mother had just died a few months before.  Despite that, he's given a job that will make it so he has little, if any, time for his sister.

The show treating Josh like he's wonderful in that scene drives me crazy in the same way Sports Night treats Dan like he's wonderful in the episode with the homeless man in the building -- Charlie just wants a job with a schedule and pay that lets him help take care of his sister, and Josh ignores that to play savior, strong-arming him a job that doesn't pay much more (and pays less if you look at it on a per hour basis) and has a schedule completely unconducive to his goal.  The homeless man is just looking for a place to avoid starving or freezing to death for one night, but Dan is too busy glorifying people with the money to climb Mt. Everest for fun to give this man any practical help.  It's the typical tone deafness of Aaron Sorkin.

Edited by Bastet
txhorns79

txhorns79

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

The show treating Josh like he's wonderful in that scene drives me crazy in the same way Sports Night treats Dan like he's wonderful in the episode with the homeless man in the building -- Charlie just wants a job with a schedule and pay that let's him help take care of his sister, and Josh ignores that to play savior, strong-arming him a job that doesn't pay much more (and pays less if you look at it on a per hour basis) and has a schedule completely unconducive to his goal. 

Yes!  Josh even notes how the job will require long hours and last minute travel!  I presume Charlie's sister just raised herself.  

And don't even get me started on Sam's behavior with Laurie.  He's so gross with her.  He appoints himself her savior, and the show finds it charming, when it very much is not. 

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Bastet

Bastet

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And don't even get me started on Sam's behavior with Laurie.  He's so gross with her.  He appoints himself her savior, and the show finds it charming, when it very much is not.

OMG, I remember almost throwing the remote at the TV when she responded to his crap by inviting him to buy her drink and walking off chatting and laughing with him rather than by punching him in the nuts and walking away.  Looking back, I'm kind of surprised I kept watching the show; two episodes in and they choose to give me a man who, after a woman ignores his calls, tracks her down and makes a public scene, follows her after she tells him to stay away from her, casually starts bragging about his day, tells her she needs saving, and after she tells him he humiliated and scared her, he shrugs, "I guess that's just the way it goes"?!

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txhorns79

txhorns79

24 minutes ago, Bastet said:

after a woman ignores his calls, tracks her down and makes a public scene, follows her after she tells him to stay away from her, casually starts bragging about his day, tells her she needs saving, and after she tells him he humiliated and scared her, he shrugs, "I guess that's just the way it goes"?!

It reminds me so much of that whole storyline from Studio 60 where Bradley Whitford's character stalks Amanda Peet.  He calls her dozens of time, has friends contact her to recommend she date him, etc.  She reasonably asks him to stop his behavior, he refuses and in a different show, that would be the point where he murders her.  Instead, she later admits that she is crazy for him, retroactively justifying all his awful behavior. 

Bastet

Bastet

(edited)

It's a tough task to make me like a CJ-less episode, but, boy, did they pull it off with "17 People".  I FF through Ainsley's bullshit and I don't care about Josh and Donna, but Toby's righteous fury in the face of Bartlet's flippant arrogance and Leo's delusional downplaying is riveting.  All these years later, and I cannot look away for a second.  "The National Security Advisor and the Secretary of State didn't know who they were taking their orders from.  I wasn't in the Situation Room that night, but I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that it was Leo.  Who no one elected!  For 90 minutes that night there was a coup d'état in this country."  Ah, back when we could all agree coups were bad.

And then Richard Schiff's face when Toby meets with the speechwriters and has act as if all is normal is the perfect ending.

Edited by Bastet
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Bastet

Bastet

It will never fail to infuriate me that Bartlet didn't tell C.J. himself about the MS.  Outside of the First Couple, it's her actions that will be the most scrutinized.  She briefs the press twice a year about his semi-annual physicals, and when he does things like ride his bicycle into a tree.  Every news agency in the world promptly assigned an intern to put together a package of every time she spoke on camera about the president's health.  That coward has Leo tell her -- second to last among senior staff to be told (with Sam only being last because they didn't want to distract him while he was writing a speech). 

There are so many big events and speeches during the MS reveal arc, but one of my favorite moments is after C.J. tosses her glasses on the desk in frustration with Sam -- when someone hands her a note, Toby picks up the glasses and hands them to her so she can read it.

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Cloud9Shopper

Cloud9Shopper

I’m on the second half of Season 1 as a first time watcher, and I find the political/work talk to be hard to follow and too fast paced at times (even when trying to watch and listen carefully), but I keep watching for the character dynamics. Like hearing Jed and Abbey have a fight in the Oval Office but dial it back once they realize it was their first fight there, and then they start talking about how Jed wishes Zoey wouldn’t date another boy before leaving arm in arm. And of course, I love Josh and Donna. I feel like this may require another rewatch or two to get the hang of all the political issues they’re working through, but there have been lots of moments that make you think.

My favorite episodes so far are “In Excelseis Deo” and “He Shall From Time to Time.” 

txhorns79

txhorns79

I always enjoyed "Ellie."  You see Jed during the first season being this close and loving parent to Zoey, and suddenly you see an entirely different side of him with Ellie.  Where his interactions with Zoey are caring and warm, he almost seems indifferent to Ellie.  She cowers in front of him, they can barely have a conversation and he is very dismissive.  Now, I understand part of this is his anger over her talking to a reporter and putting him in a box as to the Surgeon General, but he really does seem to have no clue how to deal with her.  Both Martin Sheen and Nina Siemaszko do a great job with their scenes. 

  

Bastet

Bastet

(edited)

I generally don't care for Nina Siemaszko's acting, including in much of "Ellie", but she's great when she tells him she doesn't know how to make him happy, for that he needs Zoey or Liz, and when she has to ask which of the umpteen Oval Office doors she uses to get out.

I like the Surgeon General, her godmother, telling Jed he'd be amazed how quickly kids figure out they're not their parent's favorite.

I'm up through "Bartlet For America" and I'd forgotten just how much I enjoy Joanna Gleason as Leo's attorney.  I listened to the commentary (by Sorkin, Schlamme, and Spencer) as I hadn't done that since I first got the DVDs, and John Spencer was moved to tears watching the final scene, saying it's the kind of thing you wait your entire career for.  He was friends with so many great women in Hollywood, he had to have been a special person.

Edited by Bastet
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Bastet

Bastet

I'm not sure if I'm going to continue my re-watch; I skipped "Isaac & Ishmael" for the sake of my blood pressure, but I'd forgotten how much of season three pisses me off.  Not any other entire episodes like that one, but so many lines/scenes/storylines.  I'm not in the mood to be pissed off by fiction right now.

While I hate with the heat of a thousand nuns the CJ/Simon Donovan storyline, I like the beginning of that arc (when it seemed like CJ being stalked might serve some meaningful purpose, not be an excuse to do The Bodyguard) when Bartlet is trying to get her to sign the letter accepting Secret Service protection and she's trying to make him understand her reluctance.  Her "You're not a woman in a man's job" response when he says being surrounded by guards doesn't make him look weak is great, but my absolute favorite moment is when Ron Butterfield shows her the photos of her the guy sent -- feeling vulnerable, she pulls her jacket closed as she looks at them.  It's a great touch.

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