Some People Are Indifferent To Raymond: Your Least Favorite Moments

[BogoGog24]

Whether realistic or not, I always loved that scene. Their overreaction to something so small is just hilarious. 

[zxy556575]

Not to defend Marie or anything, but my brother-in-law's grown son once gave him a fruit of the month gift. I believe the son did it with tongue firmly in cheek as a nod to ELR, but still. Maybe 7.5 pounds of grapefruit isn't much spread over a month, but it all has to be eaten within a week or so. My BIL, being retired and having spare time, took exception to the quality of some of the fruit and made the company resend it.

The Fruit Company packages cost $377 a year for the largest baskets. Harry and David are similar. How any of them are still in business is beyond me.

Edited May 28, 2016 by lordonia

[LucyEth]

Any episode with Peggy the girl scout leader.  She always comes out the winner, and I just dislike the character so much.   Also the one where Amy's mother Pat makes Ray feel foolish when he thought they got close and bonded.  

[zxy556575]

6 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Any episode with Peggy the girl scout leader.  She always comes out the winner, and I just dislike the character so much.  

I agree except for the episode where Debra tries to fix up Peter with one of her friends and, despite Ray's massive cockblocking efforts and much to his chagrin, Peter ends up with Peggy.

It was also a little funny when Ray had to drop Ally off at Peggy's house and he assumed Peggy was hitting on him.

Both of those are not because of awful Peggy but because Ray becomes the doofus of the situation.

Edited May 28, 2016 by lordonia

[LucyEth]

lordonia, I forgot about Peggy and Peter.  That was good.

[Inquisitionist]

I think Fruit of the Month is also about Marie reacting to something she can't control and her worries about good food going to waste.  As lordonia noted, the fruit typically has to be eaten within a week or so.  What if it's a fruit you don't care for that much?  Now she's got to worry about giving it to someone who'll actually like it because letting food go to waste is tantamount to a sin for her.  Yeah, the reaction was over-the-top, but I could relate to it.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Inquisitionist
corrected typo

[BogoGog24]

I always thought the episode with Ray thinking Peggy was hitting on him was one of the best and most hilarious. Yes Peggy is a horrible and unlikeable character (though that's the point I guess), but I always crack up at the scene of Raymond reenacting the "scene" with Robert patting his ass and Debra comes downstairs and sees and then just turns around and goes back upstairs. 

[Snow Apple]

We have fruit trees so I feel for Marie having too much fruit in the house. 

I hate Peggy too. Especially the episode where she throws a party and all the girls are suppose to wear the same dress. I can even sort of understand requiring a ballgown dress code, but all the girls must wear the same dress that she picked out? Ridiculous. However, I was madder at Debra's attitude than Peggy's.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Snow Apple

[CherryAmes]

What I hated about that episode was the idea that Molly would never have gotten around to telling Allie that the dress code had changed.  No one will ever be able to convince me that girls who were supposed to be best friends wouldn't have had that come up in conversation!

[FormerMod-a1]

Not only did Allie not know, but no one told Ray or Deborah either.  Really?  I just didn't like this episode all around.  

[ByTor]

On 5/28/2016 at 7:54 AM, GreekGeek said:

People have already mentioned many examples of the characters' behavior that I didn't like. I know this one is a classic and it's based on Ray Romano's real life, but...I always found Marie's reaction to the Fruit of the Month gift unconvincing. She regularly feeds three men who are hearty eaters, plus Debra, the kids and herself. I don't understand why she thinks they'll never finish all that fruit.

That is one of my unwatchable Raymonds that I always skip over.  Marie's overreaction is way over the top and simply not funny to me at all.  What are we going to do with A DOZEN pears???  Did eating them ever cross her mind?  If they each have one pear a day they'll be gone in 4 days.

[readster]

On 6/1/2016 at 6:28 PM, aquarian1 said:

Not only did Allie not know, but no one told Ray or Deborah either.  Really?  I just didn't like this episode all around.  

I completely agreed. I hated that episode so much even the fact that dress would have most likely never been worn again. These were pre-teen to early teen girls. Also, Peggy's reason was so they wouldn't have a party of mid dirft and g-string dressed girls? Umm... what? Especially at the end with the party and you saw how the girls were dressed. What school was Peggy going to? I hated Peggy's character, the only good one was with her and Amy's brother almost getting together and Ray keeping it from happening. When the two had the most in common and they were some of the worst characters the series had created. Of course when Paul Rubens played Amy's brother, his character was more point, when they decided to expand on the "craziness" of Amy's family that's when it went to far. However, back to Peggy and the party, wow, I was on Ray's side the entire time and everyone was basically saying: "Spend money and get over it." 

[zxy556575]

On 6/1/2016 at 6:13 PM, Snow Apple said:

I hate Peggy too. Especially the episode where she throws a party and all the girls are suppose to wear the same dress. I can even sort of understand requiring a ballgown dress code, but all the girls must wear the same dress that she picked out? Ridiculous. However, I was madder at Debra's attitude than Peggy's.

You didn't agree with Debra's position that it was okay to buy the dress? If I'm remembering correctly, Debra didn't necessarily agree but was willing to go along with it.

Peter was definitely my least favorite recurring character but I never knew if that was because Chris Elliott is one of those actors I dislike for no good reason, or because Peter himself was an annoying idiot.

Edited June 3, 2016 by lordonia

[Homily]

Yeah I didn't see Debra as agreeing with Peggy about that specific dress more that she generally agreed that dressing up a bit for the party would be a good idea.  I actually liked the way the story unfolded in that Ray got Allie the dress and then Debra and Allie got so excited about getting her ready to go.  Then it all went to hell in a handcart because they decided it would be funnier to have the theme of the party change.  I hated that.  It ruined what had been a sweet moment between Allie and her parents.  That's actually the main reason I can't watch this episode when it comes on.

[Snow Apple]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

You didn't agree with Debra's position that it was okay to buy the dress? If I'm remembering correctly, Debra didn't necessarily agree but was willing to go along with it.

 

From what I remember (which may be fuzzy), Debra acted like it was normal. $250 for a dress? No big deal. The child must fit in.

It wasn't until Amy and Robert were shocked at the price that she questioned it "Do you all feel that way?"  

[readster]

3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

From what I remember (which may be fuzzy), Debra acted like it was normal. $250 for a dress? No big deal. The child must fit in.

It wasn't until Amy and Robert were shocked at the price that she questioned it "Do you all feel that way?"  

That's why I said: "It's just money." "Just do it!" Is how it came off. I know they weren't hurting for money and in fact, Ray had done several things where he got stuff that was a bit more expensive, but he wasn't regretting. However, I'm in the way where: "If it isn't going to pay off later or you can use it for years to come." "Why spend $250 in a one time thing." I agree, the episode could have been good if they wouldn't have done the last minute party change, because to make it work, you had to throw out the entire story to make it work and that just goes to: "What's the point?" "It wasn't funny." 

[ByTor]

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

It wasn't until Amy and Robert were shocked at the price that she questioned it "Do you all feel that way?"  

I got annoyed with Amy when she said "For a dress that will only be worn once?"  I always (pathetically haha) say out loud "How much did you pay for that wedding dress that will only be worn once?"  I'm not implying a middle schooler's birthday party is on the same level as a wedding, I'm just referring to overpaying for something that will only be worn once.

Edited June 3, 2016 by ByTor

[Guest]

I don't like a single plot that includes Peggy.  I also dislike Peter, so I really hate the episode where they get together.

[Homily]

Quote

I'm just referring to overpaying for something that will only be worn once.

Agreed.  There are lots of occasions where we might theoretically purchase a special outfit knowing that we're not terribly likely to wear it often, or even again.- it won't be many years before Allie is going to proms and graduations and then friends weddings etc.  The dress itself and it's price wasn't really the issue, at least for me. What bothered me was the damned expectation on Peggy's part that all the girls would dress alike and all the parents would not mind spending $250.  This show was set in suburban New York not Hollywood! 

[readster]

21 minutes ago, deaja said:

I don't like a single plot that includes Peggy.  I also dislike Peter, so I really hate the episode where they get together.

Considering when they were together, I actually liked them in that episode, but everyone other episode they were in, except for when Robert gave Peter his old apartment. That was good, but how Peter lost his comic book store and everything that was too much. Plus, one moment Peter was living on his own, then back with his parents, then not and then back again. The writers didn't know how to write Peter as pathetic or just jealous of Amy's life and it got to be too much. 

[Homily]

Also I know people's finances are not their long suit on this show but how is Peter paying rent on an apartment when his "customer base" for the comic book store is in Pennsylvania?  Are we supposed to believe he's socked away his pennies for years and is living off his savings?  And even if he has some savings the parent's concern is that he hasn't met Ms Right not that he may not be able to support himself?  Weird.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Homily

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I don't like a single plot that includes Peggy.  I also dislike Peter, so I really hate the episode where they get together.

You can look at it this way...at least they're together so they can go off in a corner and be annoying by themselves :)

44 minutes ago, Homily said:

Also I know people's finances are not their long suit on this show but how is Peter paying rent on an apartment when his "customer base" for the comic book store is in Pennsylvania?  

It still bugs me that his store was really in Ho Ho Kus, NJ!  Of course that was Amy's REAL brother Russell; I fanwank that Peter kidnapped Russell & through some kind of voodoo (he's a warlock....he's a male witch!) convinced the McDougalls that he is their child :)

[Moose135]

8 hours ago, lordonia said:

Peter was definitely my least favorite recurring character but I never knew if that was because Chris Elliott is one of those actors I dislike for no good reason, or because Peter himself was an annoying idiot.

For me, it's a little of both - annoying character, but I don't like Elliott, and can't say I've found him funny in any role I've seen him in.

[zxy556575]

Even though I dislike Peggy, I do appreciate the concept of her as Ray's nemesis and someone who definitely doesn't love him. Her and Parker. PARKER!

Another episode I'm iffy about is T-Ball, where Debra goes off the rails about the snacks. I don't like Ray turning into a sniveling suck-up just to appease Bryan Trenberth, but neither do I agree with Debra's hostile reactions. I'm torn!

Speaking of guest stars, I've always enjoyed Dan Castellaneta as Bryan, first for getting under Debra's skin, then Raymond's in the episode where he's Geoffrey's basketball coach. He plays the hell out of the stereotypical yuppie helicopter parent. Aside from that small bit of satirical humor, that episode bugs me because everyone's reactions were all over the place.

[Homily]

Quote

Another episode I'm iffy about is T-Ball, where Debra goes off the rails about the snacks. I don't like Ray turning into a sniveling suck-up just to appease Bryan Trenberth, but neither do I agree with Debra's hostile reactions. I'm torn!

This was one of the things I love best about ELR.  Most of the time the disagreements between Ray and Debra were pretty real life.  Both were right, and both were wrong.  Debra overreacted to the "not on the approved snack list" but Ray should have stayed out of it instead of trying to kiss Bryan's butt,

[BogoGog24]

One episode I've never liked is Someone's Cranky (I think it's called) where Robert is in a bad mood when he finds out he's getting better from his bull injury and he starts treating everyone like crap. 

I've also never really liked the Bad Moon Rising episode very much either. 

[Snow Apple]

52 minutes ago, BogoGog24 said:

I've also never really liked the Bad Moon Rising episode very much either. 

Is that the one where Debra threw Ray into a bookshelf? I don't know who wrote for this show and The King of Queens, but physical violence against men is not funny. Those scenes on both shows always make me cringe.

[BogoGog24]

10 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Is that the one where Debra threw Ray into a bookshelf? I don't know who wrote for this show and The King of Queens, but physical violence against men is not funny. Those scenes on both shows always make me cringe.

I haven't seen it in ages but that sounds familiar, so probably. And I agree violence against men in comedy shows is just as unfunny as if it were women but I suppose the writers think it is supposed to be funny. This was back in like 1999.

I just watched the Bully on the Bus episode. Debra's attitude throughout the entire episode is unbelievable. First when they believe it's Ally being picked on she is totally indifferent and expects that she's just going to defend herself and that none of the adults should intervene at all. Then when she finds out Ally is the one being a bully she still brushes it off like its no big deal that her kid is picking on someone else and makes an excuse that that is what kids do. What parent would seriously act like that in either of those scenarios? Ridiculous. 

[BogoGog24]

I also just watched The Christmas Picture and Debra's attitude in that episode is also ridiculous. She says that her parents should be in the photo because it's a family photo, yet Ray intended for it to be a Barone family photo only, so why should Debra's parents be in it?

On the other hand Marie acted just as ridiculous by refusing to take the photo because her parents were in it. I don't understand why they couldn't just take 1 photo with just the Barones, then 1 with everyone of it was that much of a problem.

Edited June 5, 2016 by BogoGog24

[Inquisitionist]

17 hours ago, BogoGog24 said:

 I don't understand why they couldn't just take 1 photo with just the Barones, then 1 with everyone of it was that much of a problem.

Because it's a sitcom.  :-)

[Homily]

Quote

I also just watched The Christmas Picture and Debra's attitude in that episode is also ridiculous. She says that her parents should be in the photo because it's a family photo, yet Ray intended for it to be a Barone family photo only, so why should Debra's parents be in it?

If Ray didn't like the way Debra arranged things for the family picture he was intending to take all the credit for then he shouldn't have left it to her to do all the planning.  He really should have known there was going to be payback when he let her down over seeing her parents at Christmas.  If it had been me he'd have been lucky to get away with just having to cope with cranky Marie on the day of the photo shoot!

[ByTor]

19 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

Because it's a sitcom.  :-)

I always try to tell myself that, but when a plot is too ridiculous or when there is an easy out to the sitcommy conundrum the characters are in, it's no longer funny to me.

This Christmas picture one perfectly showcases why I don't like Debra.  She makes herself out to be some kind of kick-ass who takes no crap, but when she does go up against crap (and to be fair she's forced to do that a lot) instead of confronting the source, she pulls a passive aggressive bitch move.  Maybe if she treated Ray & Marie more like she did Brian in the t-ball episode she wouldn't have that many problems.  And she doesn't do that because, as @Inquisitionist, said, sitcom :)

Edited June 6, 2016 by ByTor

[CherryAmes]

19 hours ago, Homily said:

If Ray didn't like the way Debra arranged things for the family picture he was intending to take all the credit for then he shouldn't have left it to her to do all the planning.  He really should have known there was going to be payback when he let her down over seeing her parents at Christmas.  If it had been me he'd have been lucky to get away with just having to cope with cranky Marie on the day of the photo shoot!

Sing it sister.  I am almost always pretty firmly in Camp Debra and this episode was a perfect example of why.  Debra asks Ray if they can see her parents at Christmas and he won't go along with it mainly because Marie throws a hissyfit about it.  Typical Ray.  Debra's feelings will never be as important to him as Marie's.  Sure Debra pulled a fast one and in typical sitcom fashion it was a problem that could have been very easily resolved but like you if my husband had diminished my feelings about something as important as seeing my own parents at Christmas time - when we live across the street from his - I too would have been figuring out some form of revenge or another!  Probably wouldn't have been as funny as ELR revenges though :).

Edited June 6, 2016 by CherryAmes

[Snow Apple]

The passing of Muhammad Ali reminded me of the episode where Debra threw away a bunch of papers without looking at them to see if they are important. One of those papers is a letter to Ray from Muhammad Ali. Who does that? I go through my papers even if the drawer usually only contain coupons and ads just in case. Of course this is a sitcom and that's a set-up for the rest of the episode, but it just bugged me for her to be so careless.

I did like the rest of the episode though especially when Marie says keeping secrets and doing each other favors are what family does, and Amy muttered "A mob family."

[readster]

3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

The passing of Muhammad Ali reminded me of the episode where Debra threw away a bunch of papers without looking at them to see if they are important. One of those papers is a letter to Ray from Muhammad Ali. Who does that? I go through my papers even if the drawer usually only contain coupons and ads just in case. Of course this is a sitcom and that's a set-up for the rest of the episode, but it just bugged me for her to be so careless.

I did like the rest of the episode though especially when Marie says keeping secrets and doing each other favors are what family does, and Amy muttered "A mob family."

Oh I know it ranks up there along with Ray taping over their wedding video for a football game. Because A) VHS done then had the tabs taken off to keep from being recorded. Robert even said the company who did it went out of business, so who knew if any copies were still around or not. 2. As we saw, there was like maybe 45 seconds cut out as when they went to play the game they found Deb coming up the aisle, so, really the only thing that was lost was the wedding party entrance. I would have been mad too, but logic was big time thrown out for the story and then when it was revealed that nothing was really lost outside of 45 second, everyone acted like not seeing the game was a bigger deal. Not to mention, the Wedding Video wouldn't have been in another spot then with blank VHS?

[CherryAmes]

The one I saw recently that had the big logic fail for me was the first season episode where Ray replaces the diamond in Debra's ring.  I can accept that Ray never realized Debra had replaced it years before but I can't accept that the jeweller Ray takes it too wouldn't know the difference between "glassette" and a  $15,000 diamond!  This is never mentioned at all and the last scene shows Ray and Debra rummaging through a dumpster on the assumption, presumably, that the jeweller has tossed it out.

Edited June 6, 2016 by CherryAmes

[amaranta]

Quote

there was like maybe 45 seconds cut out

There were only 45 seconds left of the wedding, the very start.  All that was left was the bridal entrance.  The rest of the tape was the game.  They weren't upset about no game.  Ray was freaked because there was a game but no wedding.  And. boy, he knew was he in trouble.

[Snow Apple]

5 minutes ago, amaranta said:

There were only 45 seconds left of the wedding, the very start.  All that was left was the bridal entrance.  The rest of the tape was the game.  They weren't upset about no game.  Ray was freaked because there was a game but no wedding.  And. boy, he knew was he in trouble.

If I recall, all the guys at the end of the episode were watching the game and just when there was an exciting play was coming up, the tape cut back to the wedding.

The part I disliked in this episode was when Ray asked his parents if he can move into their house and Marie smarmily and gleefully asked "What did Debra do?" 

[readster]

45 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

The one I saw recently that had the big logic fail for me was the first season episode where Ray replaces the diamond in Debra's ring.  I can accept that Ray never realized Debra had replaced it years before but I can't accept that the jeweller Ray takes it too wouldn't know the difference between "glassette" and a  $15,000 diamond!  This is never mentioned at all and the last scene shows Ray and Debra rummaging through a dumpster on the assumption, presumably, that the jeweller has tossed it out.

I completely agree. Any jeweler would have seen: "Wow! This is a great diamond, its not a fake!" Instead, he just tossed it out? That is beyond belief, even if the jeweler was shady, he would have taken that diamond and ran, not pitched it. 

[amaranta]

Quote

If I recall, all the guys at the end of the episode were watching the game and just when there was an exciting play was coming up, the tape cut back to the wedding.

This was driving me crazy so I tried to find it.  (Yes, I'm weird.)  I think that the joke ended up being that not only is the whole wedding gone, which is why Ray arranged for a vow renewal, the tag may have showed that he didn't get the end of the game either.  I couldn't find that part and I honestly don't remember the ending of no game.  The clip below is the only tape related part I remember seeing.  I hate it when silly stuff get stuck in my head.

But this wasn't exactly one of my favorite episodes either.  Not only does he come off as inconsiderate, but extremely stupid as well. 

[BogoGog24]

I literally just watched this episode the other night. Basically what happens is that the tape starts with Debra walking down the aisle and then it cuts to football. They never fast forward to see if the whole tape is all football or not, they just assume Ray taped over the entire wedding video. Then at the end Ray and the guys are watching the game and just as an exciting play is about to happen it returns to the wedding at what looks like Ray and Debra either were preparing to say the vows or had just said them. It's not exactly clear what parts of the wedding were cut and what remained intact. 

[readster]

1 hour ago, BogoGog24 said:

I literally just watched this episode the other night. Basically what happens is that the tape starts with Debra walking down the aisle and then it cuts to football. They never fast forward to see if the whole tape is all football or not, they just assume Ray taped over the entire wedding video. Then at the end Ray and the guys are watching the game and just as an exciting play is about to happen it returns to the wedding at what looks like Ray and Debra either were preparing to say the vows or had just said them. It's not exactly clear what parts of the wedding were cut and what remained intact. 

Exactly, so while giving away of the bride and main walk are gone, the rest is intact. 

[ByTor]

25 minutes ago, readster said:

Exactly, so while giving away of the bride and main walk are gone, the rest is intact. 

If the rest of the ceremony is intact, though, that would mean the walk down the aisle took over 3 hours.  I assume the game was taped from the beginning, and the part where the game cut out was at that infamous field goal attempt in the closing seconds.

[CherryAmes]

I thought what happened was the tape basically showed the very beginning of the wedding ceremony and then the very end, so that the part with the football game wasn't the entire game just, maybe 15 minutes at most,  the last part leading up to that infamous field goal attempt (which I'd never heard of until this episode - not a football fan).  If that's the case it still makes sense for Debra to be very upset and ties into Ray being a doofus because he screwed up the wedding tape and the football tape,  I didn't get the impression the guys had been sitting in the living room for 3 hours watching that tape.

Edited June 7, 2016 by CherryAmes

[Snow Apple]

Yeah, I don't think Ray taped the entire game. Exciting things were happening so he scrambled to find a tape.

[Inquisitionist]

I suspect the writers didn't think through the wedding tape timing to the same extent as this thread's participants.  ;-)  As for me, any episode with Father Hubley is gold.

[readster]

55 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Yeah, I don't think Ray taped the entire game. Exciting things were happening so he scrambled to find a tape.

Yeah, that's what I think it all boils down to. Ray just didn't think and grabbed the first tape he saw because of how the game was going. What still is strange is that he stopped taping just before the game when there was only a few seconds remaining. No matter how you look at it, too much logic is thrown out the window to make the story work. 1. The wedding tape would have had its tab removed to keep from being recorded over. 2. Ray being the sports fan he is and made a career around it would have either been recording the game to begin with or had ones ready to go. 3. The wedding tape was with regular VHS instead of put away or with movie VHS. 4. Ray would be that oblivious. 

 It ranks up there with the entire container that Deb forgot she still had from Marie and then threw it out to avoid being told off by Marie and the boys just happened to dig it out of the bottom of the garbage can and play kick the can with it. Because I know so many almost 4 year old twins who would be able to do that and without anyone watching them. When all Debra had to do was go: "Marie, you were right I found it, but it was taken with some other items to the basement and I didn't know it was there, but here you go." "Why it was such a matter of life and death for you to have it back, I don't know, but here it is." She wanted to avoid Marie being right about it and then her first idea was to throw it out in the trash was extremely dumb.

  Then again, a very stupid moment that ranks up there with: "Seriously?" Was the plot around the suitcase, I'm sorry, many think its a great episode, but to the fact it had been there so many days and that Debra deliberately took something out to wash and then wear all in attempt for Ray to take the damn thing upstairs. Was too much and then how it ended. It made both of them look like serious mental cases. 

[BogoGog24]

Yeah it also isn't very clear when Ray started taping the game or for how long. He says one of his guests probably told him to start taping when something exciting was happening so that's why it didn't start from the beginning. I don't know why it would stop taping just before the end though. 

[readster]

1 hour ago, BogoGog24 said:

Yeah it also isn't very clear when Ray started taping the game or for how long. He says one of his guests probably told him to start taping when something exciting was happening so that's why it didn't start from the beginning. I don't know why it would stop taping just before the end though. 

Also add in the fact that the video was right there where Debra is being walked down the aisle. While they had started the tape at the beginning, someone would have had played the VHS earlier and then just stopped it right there and then put it back in the holder and put away. Leaving Ray to start recording it right at that exact moment instead of at the very beginning. Then why did it just stop taping? Did by some magic that the VHS did have the tab removed, but yet allowed it to be recorded for a brief couple of minutes and then stop? Did the power go out in the wall outlet? Did someone accidentally hit STOP on the VCR or remote? The more you go the more this episode is picked apart. Which really shows how bad the episode was written if you can pull the kick off to the plot so easily and keep going on and on instead of: "Well, they forgot they had the said item and then made a big deal about it." Instead of ABCDEF needing to happening, but still leaving GHIJK unexplained to make things work.

[zxy556575]

4 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

As for me, any episode with Father Hubley is gold.

Wait! Is there even a lasagna here?