S16: Micronesia

[simplyme]

I would like to say that Natalie's jury question to Parvati was the single most awkward, horrible question or statement from a juror I have ever seen on Survivor. I was actually wishing she had just been an arrogant ass like so many others (*cough*FijiAlex)

[LadyChatts]

The look on Jeff's face made up for it.  I'm surprised she didn't write "call me" on the parchment when she wrote Parvati's name down.

[KimberStormer]

I think Amanda has a good head on her shoulders and she played very well in both China and Micronesia and I will forever respect her for throwing away all her dignity to try to stay alive against all odds in HvV despite obviously not even wanting to be there anymore, which to me shows a kind of game integrity, like "I signed up for this and it is my duty to play as hard as I can."  In China she pretty much ran a textbook game except neglecting the social game, which, sorry @enlightenedbum but I think Todd had absolutely down.  Everyone seems to think all he did was FTC but people are giving him HII clues left and right and taking him on rewards and stuff; everyone seemed to like him out there.  Amanda to me is a classic introvert and was aloof, which I totally get because I would be the same way.

In Micronesia she had to roll with a lot of punches and be adaptable and light on her feet, which she did.  She too was willing to make an F3 deal with Cirie, which in her case was probably not sincere but she sold it enough that when it was her only option it still happened, and when Parvati made further promises for her and made her LIVID she didn't show it but again went with it when it came true.  And I honestly think it's possible she could beat Ozzy, had they gone to FTC, since he has the same introvert social-game problem she does and was at Maximum Arrogance in Micronesia, and I think she could also lead him on a leash to do whatever she wanted, so I don't think the original Couples Alliance plan was that bad either.  But she sure did collapse in the endgame; I honestly think she too got somewhat screwed over by the F2 revelation.

I also think that though JT had the Heroes spun up and twirled like spaghetti on a fork Amanda was capable of twisting herself into an FTC position again, had Parvati not gotten the better of everyone at the merge TC, and I like her chances against a lot of Heroes, depending on how it all went down of course.  Plus let's not forget that she's a minor challenge beast and sold the hell out of an idol blindside.  Basically I think Amanda is a solid B+ or so and there's nothing wrong with that.

As for Natalie's question, it was delightfully awkward, and yet apparently Ozzy topped it with a demand for an interpretive dance from Parvati that was left on the cutting room floor?  She must have spent the whole FTC like

[MissEwa]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

I honestly think she too got somewhat screwed over by the F2 revelation.

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, but not in this thread, but how do you think a Cirie-Parvati-Amanda F3 would have played out? I always *want* to say Cirie would have won, but I think you're right - barring an absolutely dreadful FTC performance (and... well), I think Amanda still gets Ozzy and James for sure, and probably Erik, and Parv still gets Natalie and probably Alexis. Which only leaves Eliza (certainly) and Jason (maybe) for Cirie. I want to believe Cirie in front of a jury could do anything but I'm not sure she could have won that F3 - I think she'd have beaten either Parv or Amanda had she made F2, but the F3... maybe not. 

[Oholibamah]

1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, but not in this thread, but how do you think a Cirie-Parvati-Amanda F3 would have played out? I always *want* to say Cirie would have won, but I think you're right - barring an absolutely dreadful FTC performance (and... well), I think Amanda still gets Ozzy and James for sure, and probably Erik, and Parv still gets Natalie and probably Alexis. Which only leaves Eliza (certainly) and Jason (maybe) for Cirie. I want to believe Cirie in front of a jury could do anything but I'm not sure she could have won that F3 - I think she'd have beaten either Parv or Amanda had she made F2, but the F3... maybe not. 

I used to assume this same breakdown resulting in an Amanda win, but I forget that A) Amanda and Erik weren't as close after they betrayed one another, and he really seemed to love Cirie, and B) I can't see Alexis/Natalie being so naive to how the vote is going that they let Amanda beat Cirie while they just throw away votes on Parvati.

My prediction is 6-2-0, with chance of 5-2-1 or 5-3-0, all for Cirie.

[enlightenedbum]

Between Cirie's likeability, her obvious brilliance in the game, and her life situation she walks away with that easily.  It would feel better to give her the money than Parvati and that;s often a big factor.

[LadyChatts]

I always considered Jason's vote towards Parvati more a vote against Amanda (because of her showmance with Ozzy).  I think he would have voted for Cirie in that situation.  Erik and Eliza are bigger wildcards.  Eliza I can see going towards Cirie, or keeping her vote for Parvati.  Either way she'd still be up in the voting booth acting like she's the deciding vote in a Law & Order jury vote.

[Star Aristille]

11 hours ago, Oholibamah said:

My prediction is 6-2-0, with chance of 5-2-1 or 5-3-0, all for Cirie.

I think there'd be seven votes, not eight, if a F3 had faced the jury.

[MissEwa]

11 hours ago, Oholibamah said:

I can't see Alexis/Natalie being so naive to how the vote is going that they let Amanda beat Cirie while they just throw away votes on Parvati.

My prediction is 6-2-0, with chance of 5-2-1 or 5-3-0, all for Cirie.

I don't know - and I know this is all 100% hypothetical and it's likely the cast has said things since the season that contradict all of it, but just theorising.

There are seven votes. Amanda has two: Ozzy and James. Everyone has to know she has those two. That leaves five in play, so for Cirie or Parv to win they need to get either a) four votes or b) three votes, while the other two go to the other of the two of them (so not Amanda).

The other possibility is a tie - for which they need three votes, with one of the others going to Amanda and one going to the other player. I know they don't know how a tie goes at that point but they'd probably assume that the person with the least votes is eliminated and votes, because that's what I'd assume, but who knows? Maybe they thought it was fire. 

I feel like Natalie and Alexis's preference would be Parvati >>>> Cirie >>>>>>> Amanda. Do they hate Amanda that much as to vote against Parv just to ensure she doesn't win, especially when doing that would guarantee that Parv has no chance, especially since the remaining three votes are really not clear at all? They're two votes, and they know they're two votes. They know Parv only needs one more out of Erik, Jason and Eliza to *probably* not lose outright, two to definitely not, and they need two out of those three to *not* vote for Amanda. 

We know Jason and Eliza voted for Parv, which means in an F3, they're probably going to Parv or Cirie. If Parv gets both, she wins. If Parv gets one, and Cirie gets one, it's either a Parv win or a tie, depending on Erik. If Cirie gets both, Erik decides the winner. Erik is close to Amanda but, as people have pointed out, he's also close to Cirie. Cirie didn't call him out at TC, but then again, she was an integral part of the give-up-immunity plan. 

I mean, this all depends on how much chatter there was at Ponderosa, and on how Cirie goes at FTC, but I just can't see both Natalie and Alexis being like 'well, Parv has no chance' when she only needs *one more vote* to the extent that they'd completely sink her chances. I think it ends up either 2-2-3 (with Erik deciding the winner between Amanda and Cirie) or 3-3-1, with Parv and Amanda tied. 

Gah. That confused me just typing it. I hope it makes some sense.  

[Oholibamah]

11 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

I think there'd be seven votes, not eight, if a F3 had faced the jury.

 

Oops! Forgot to remove the Cirie vote from the calculation. 

 

4 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I don't know - and I know this is all 100% hypothetical and it's likely the cast has said things since the season that contradict all of it, but just theorising.

There are seven votes. Amanda has two: Ozzy and James. Everyone has to know she has those two. That leaves five in play, so for Cirie or Parv to win they need to get either a) four votes or b) three votes, while the other two go to the other of the two of them (so not Amanda).

The other possibility is a tie - for which they need three votes, with one of the others going to Amanda and one going to the other player. I know they don't know how a tie goes at that point but they'd probably assume that the person with the least votes is eliminated and votes, because that's what I'd assume, but who knows? Maybe they thought it was fire. 

I feel like Natalie and Alexis's preference would be Parvati >>>> Cirie >>>>>>> Amanda. Do they hate Amanda that much as to vote against Parv just to ensure she doesn't win, especially when doing that would guarantee that Parv has no chance, especially since the remaining three votes are really not clear at all? They're two votes, and they know they're two votes. They know Parv only needs one more out of Erik, Jason and Eliza to *probably* not lose outright, two to definitely not, and they need two out of those three to *not* vote for Amanda. 

We know Jason and Eliza voted for Parv, which means in an F3, they're probably going to Parv or Cirie. If Parv gets both, she wins. If Parv gets one, and Cirie gets one, it's either a Parv win or a tie, depending on Erik. If Cirie gets both, Erik decides the winner. Erik is close to Amanda but, as people have pointed out, he's also close to Cirie. Cirie didn't call him out at TC, but then again, she was an integral part of the give-up-immunity plan. 

I mean, this all depends on how much chatter there was at Ponderosa, and on how Cirie goes at FTC, but I just can't see both Natalie and Alexis being like 'well, Parv has no chance' when she only needs *one more vote* to the extent that they'd completely sink her chances. I think it ends up either 2-2-3 (with Erik deciding the winner between Amanda and Cirie) or 3-3-1, with Parv and Amanda tied. 

Gah. That confused me just typing it. I hope it makes some sense.  

The Natalie/Alexis argument here makes sense, but I'm perhaps being overly influenced by former players talking about how "everybody knows who everyone else is voting for going into FTC".

Also, I can see Natalie going Parvati no matter what, but I suspect Alexis would be more interested in voting against Amanda than for Parvati. 

I also wonder if Jason's vote for Parvati was a respect vote for her keeping her word to him, and then outplaying him the following week. This improves Parvati's chances greatly. 

[MissEwa]

I can also see Alexis voting Cirie as less a vote against Amanda and more because Cirie voted with her against Amanda, while Parv wouldn't. Maybe even Natalie would, but I doubt it. In any case, that F3 would be so tight. 
 

[simplyme]

Are we sure they wouldn't have started the jury with Ami, though, if it was going to be an F3?

Ooo. What a nice can of worms! *opens*

[LadyChatts]

I think this might have come down to possible Ponderosa jury persuasion.  Erik was an Ozzy fanboy, so whatever feelings he might have had against Amanda, still might have voted for her over Cirie because of Ozzy.  I believe 100% Natalie was voting for Parvati regardless.  So for argument's sake, we'll say Amanda has James/Ozzy/Erik for sure, and Parvati has Natalie, leaving Jason/Alexis/Eliza.  I don't believe that Eliza would want to see Amanda win, so if she thought there was a chance she might if she voted for Cirie, she would likely vote for Parvati.  I could equally see Jason and Alexis taking that same road.  It's hard to believe there's a scenario where Cirie would get zero votes, but maybe.  Also, since Parvati got credit for the Ozzy boot (even if it was Cirie's idea), how would that have worked into the edit?  I believe Cirie masterminded a lot more than we were shown.  If she made the final 3, we might have seen those moves.  If Ozzy got up and told Parv to do a dance for their friendship, would Cirie get up and start busting a move because she said it was her idea, not Parvati's?  It's kind of scary to think the outcome of this game could have hinged on Eliza/Jason/Alexis/Erik.  And would it be because they respected her game play or just liked her better than the alternatives?  But I love debating the 'what ifs'! 

As for Ami-well, it's always been said that he first juror can set the tone for Ponderosa.  So does that mean they would have merged, though, if Ami was the first juror and we had a final 3?  She was with Cirie and Amanda more, so she might have had more of an ax to grind with them.  But in a merge situation, her boot likely doesn't go down the same way, with Erik going to Ozzy and throwing her under the bus.  She'd likely still be outnumbered at the merge, even if Eliza and Jason were at her side.  However, if she was first juror, and her boot plays out the way it did, I'm saying she's a vote for Cirie or Parvati.  She might have respect for Cirie.  I don't see Amanda getting her vote.

Edited June 15, 2017 by LadyChatts

[simplyme]

The merge and first juror are not always simultaneous, if that's what you're asking. For example, Marcus was the 1st juror in Gabon and he was voted off Kota. Then the merge happened and the merged tribes became Nobag.

[Star Aristille]

1 hour ago, simplyme said:

Are we sure they wouldn't have started the jury with Ami, though, if it was going to be an F3?

Ooo. What a nice can of worms! *opens*

I'm pretty sure they would've had a F2 then, since by that time, they were still adamant about having odd-numbered juries.  This season only ended up having the first even-numbered jury because of James's evacuation.  There were supposed to be seven jurors, starting at F10, not eight.

36 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

Also, since Parvati got credit for the Ozzy boot (even if it was Cirie's idea), how would that have worked into the edit?  I believe Cirie masterminded a lot more than we were shown.  If she made the final 3, we might have seen those moves.

I believe Parvati simply got credit for that because she not only won, but also because she was presented as the swing vote for that episode.  Cirie, Natalie, Alexis, and Jason were all ready, willing, and able to do it.  It was just Parvati's vote they needed.

[MissEwa]

2 hours ago, simplyme said:

Are we sure they wouldn't have started the jury with Ami, though, if it was going to be an F3?

Ooo. What a nice can of worms! *opens*

I'd guess that the plan was the same as the plan for Cook Islands and Fiji, being 20-person seasons (well, Fiji was supposed to be) - which is a 9-person jury and an F3, but after the Jonathan and Kathy exits the merge happened at ten instead of 12 so they went to a 7-person jury and an F3, and the F2 happened when James was pulled too. I think (?) this is the only season where there were several medevacs/quits and it didn't lead to any cancelled tribal councils, but I'm not sure. 

SO the can of worms - aside from the huge what-ifs about those quits not happening in all aspects of the game, but let's just suppose that SOMEHOW boot order stayed roughly the same and you still has a Parv-Amanda-Cirie F3 - isn't Ami, it's Ami AND Tracey. I don't think Amanda gets either, but beyond that... no idea. 

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

I think this might have come down to possible Ponderosa jury persuasion.  Erik was an Ozzy fanboy, so whatever feelings he might have had against Amanda, still might have voted for her over Cirie because of Ozzy.  I believe 100% Natalie was voting for Parvati regardless.  So for argument's sake, we'll say Amanda has James/Ozzy/Erik for sure, and Parvati has Natalie, leaving Jason/Alexis/Eliza.  I don't believe that Eliza would want to see Amanda win, so if she thought there was a chance she might if she voted for Cirie, she would likely vote for Parvati.  I could equally see Jason and Alexis taking that same road.  It's hard to believe there's a scenario where Cirie would get zero votes, but maybe.  Also, since Parvati got credit for the Ozzy boot (even if it was Cirie's idea), how would that have worked into the edit?  I believe Cirie masterminded a lot more than we were shown.  If she made the final 3, we might have seen those moves.  If Ozzy got up and told Parv to do a dance for their friendship, would Cirie get up and start busting a move because she said it was her idea, not Parvati's?  It's kind of scary to think the outcome of this game could have hinged on Eliza/Jason/Alexis/Erik.  And would it be because they respected her game play or just liked her better than the alternatives?  But I love debating the 'what ifs'! 

Parvati got credit for the Ozzy boot but she also got blame. That vote was the reason she'd never get Ozzy or James' votes, which in a 7-person jury is quite the deficit to come back from. If Cirie was in the F3 maybe Parvati could point to it being Cirie's plan and she went with it because she knew she couldn't beat them at the end blahblahblah, and maybe she swings James, maybe, but it's highly, highly unlikely. 

Ozzy vote aside, I feel like Parvati kept her hands relatively clean in those blindsides. The Jason one was mostly on Natalie, and Parv did keep her word about not voting him out the episode before. Alexis's blindside came down to Amanda's idol find and even if Parvati did know about that she could claim she wasn't sure, and can also argue that she never lied about her vote and was always upfront about her intentions. And of the four of them, Parvati outwardly seemed to have the least to do with the Erik play - Natalie was selling him Cirie's vote, and it was Amanda who twisted the knife at TC. 

Eliza's vote is a funny one. She seemed bitter at Parvati, but that very high-school outsider way where she probably would have voted for her anyway, because on some level she just wanted Parv to like her. 

And the edit is a thing - we see a lot less of how Cirie relates to everyone so we don't know as much about how much they liked her. Amanda got targeted a couple of times as a jury threat (ha!) but I don't remember Cirie's name coming up in that context at all. Hell, if the edit is to be believed Amanda even considered taking her to F2. That 'Cirie 100% wins if she gets in front of a jury' narrative that followed her to HvV and Game Changers seems to have been formed AFTER this season. 

[LanceM]

They are talking about the Micronesia jury over on reddit tonight and Erik Reichenbach chimed in with his thoughts.  

 

"There was a thread of "Amanda is a mess" + "Parvati is the 21st century feminism representation" from the Alexis / Natalie camp. They kept trying to sway myself and Jason at Ponderosa to vote Parv. at all costs.

That said, I didn't really want to vote anyone, but Jeff mentioned if there was a tie between the two, there was a super-secret envelope containing a super-secret tie breaker that would be opened at the live finale. So I voted Amanda, knowing a lot of people were already vocal about voting for Parvati."

[Star Aristille]

10 minutes ago, LanceM said:

That said, I didn't really want to vote anyone

He didn't want to vote for either woman?  That's . . . bitter of him.

[MissEwa]

34 minutes ago, LanceM said:

That said, I didn't really want to vote anyone, but Jeff mentioned if there was a tie between the two, there was a super-secret envelope containing a super-secret tie breaker that would be opened at the live finale. So I voted Amanda, knowing a lot of people were already vocal about voting for Parvati."

So he wanted to force a tie to see what was in the envelope? 

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, Star Aristille said:

He didn't want to vote for either woman?  That's . . . bitter of him.

I don't know if it was really bitter of him.  He had no bond with Parvati, and she was the one who really spearheaded the female alliance.  Or at least helped put it together.  The women coerced him into giving up immunity, and though that's his own idiotic fault, I'm sure the humiliation was still stinging.  I think he thought he had a bond with Amanda.  However, he isn't the first to make a statement like that.  I think about WA, and how (god forbid) the final 3 could have been Dan/Rodney/Will.  Yikes.  I wonder if the jury could flat out mutiny?  I do think some jurors like to talk tough.  Like "I"d rather have a root canal than vote for anyone in the final 3, and my vote was more to make the other person lose."

All this talk about Micronesia, I'm going to put that next on the re-watch list.  

Edited June 15, 2017 by LadyChatts

[KimberStormer]

Wow this has been such a great discussion!  Really, really fascinating to think about.  I feel like at some point it was a Known Fact among the Parvati haters that "Alexis and Eliza would have voted for Cirie ergo Parvati sucks" so there's that.  I suppose they must have gotten this from exit interviews, though, which in my mind mean nothing since they're influenced by the edit.  (Thank you @LanceM for delving into the foetid waters of reddit and plucking this oyster of an Erik quote from its murky depths.  When I made the mistake of sticking my nose into Survivor reddit there was a lot of anti-Parvati sentiment over there, in which I at least caught a subtle perfume of GamerGate, which I wouldn't like to try to explain because they like Sandra etc.   People were debating Jeremy's place among returning-player winners (because if you are an intense macho reddit nerd of course you insist that returning player Survivor is false and impure and doesn't count) and they were assuming as an axiom, without bothering to explain it, that of course Parvati was by far the worst, not even worthy of mentioning...well, I didn't last long there.)

But I didn't even really mean the votes!   Votes aside I think Amanda was really thrown for a loop by the F2 thing, and it hurt her FTC performance a good deal.  I think she, like Andrea this time, had at least some reason to think she could take Cirie to FTC and win.  (I think in every season, even Game Changers, the challenge for Cirie at FTC would be to show that she did anything, because she plays so magically under-the-radar, for all her BIG MOVES.)  She thinks she's gotten to the end, for the second time; it's basically 70-something straight days of Survivor for her, considering the tiny break between seasons.  She's completely exhausted, she's left it all out there, but she's made it to the end and now the game is out of her hands.  She's had some ups and downs, but she's rolled with all the punches, and she's coming up strong with an amazing endgame: first her delightful performance with another idol out of freaking nowhere, then a key part of the elaborate charade to take out Erik.  She's got the necklace; she's voting out Natalie, who knows and expects it and isn't upset; so she can let her guard down going into this last tribal.  Then suddenly Jeff is hinting that it's really an F2, and this is where things start to fall apart for her.  Cirie says she's on the bottom 'yet again'; and Amanda, realizing now that she has to play more after all, tries to reassure her that that's not true, but messes it up completely.  This starts an argument, which continues after tribal, where it's really clear how she's breaking down.  Now Amanda looks and feels like a bully, and worse she is forced to act this role out because she must beat Cirie at the final immunity challenge and she must vote Cirie out.  Cirie will never forgive her.  She feels bad, she acts like she's done something bad, she looks terrible in front of the jury...none of which happen if it is an F3 and there is therefore no leading questions about an F2 from Probst.

Whereas Parvati is in the same position she has been in for most of the merge: sitting pretty.  F5, F3, F2, doesn't really matter, nobody's voting her out, they all want to sit with her at the end.  She can refuse to vote for Amanda in the knowledge that it's not going to hurt her whether or not Amanda pulls an idol.  She can deliberately leave the HII at Exile Island because she has no use for it and it will just make trouble for her since she promised it to two of her allies.  She can sit back and let Amanda and Cirie fight.  She can throw the final immunity challenge, Hatch-style (though without his wonderful "see how good I am, TV audience?" flourish).  She's going to FTC with whoever she's with, and has pretty much the same FTC argument against any of them.

7 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Also, since Parvati got credit for the Ozzy boot (even if it was Cirie's idea), how would that have worked into the edit?

I think if you go back and look that Natalie is actually the one who first speaks of blindsiding Ozzy?  In any case, ideas are nice but you need to be able to do it.  Maybe Natalie and Alexis wanted to, maybe Cirie wanted to, but the bridge between them that could make this nice idea real was Parvati, and it meant a big risk for her, both in terms of the immediate game (she's stuck her neck out in a big way, James will not and Amanda may not ever forgive/trust her again) and long-term game (two votes at least she will never ever get at FTC, and Eliza and Ozzy in a long long sojourn at Ponderosa to poison the jury against her.  Cirie orchaestrated the Erik vote like a Mozart sonata, but I feel comfortable giving the Ozzy blindside to Parvati.

[enlightenedbum]

It was Cirie's plan to vote out Ozzy, sparked by Eliza revealing who had the idol and the deal with Jason at the immunity challenge.  Parvati did take a risk by joining in and deserves credit for that.  Not sure how big of one it was because she was pretty well positioned either way, but it was a risk.  That episode is actually the funniest one of that very, very funny post-merge.  I think it's also the episode where Erik meditates on boobs on the island of Yap?  That might be later in the season I don't remember exactly when that amazing bit of comedy happens.  It's really too bad the pre-merge is so sad/garbage.

I do think for a segment of the jury, giving either of them a million bucks was distasteful.  I read somewhere there was an unaired question from Eliza that was "name anyone running for President."  Filming started October 29, 2007 so we were like 8 months into the campaign and the actual primaries were like 9 weeks away, by the end of the game, less than a month away.  And they failed.  I always thought that question was hilarious (if petty and spiteful, as most jury questions are).  And it gets at the weirdest thing about Parvati's win to me.  She comes off as a spoiled brat in Cook Islands, and while it's less so in Micronesia, it's definitely still there as far as I'm concerned.  Then she wins the million and as best I can tell... became a pretty cool person.  That's not how I'd expect that to go.

[MissEwa]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

I think if you go back and look that Natalie is actually the one who first speaks of blindsiding Ozzy?  In any case, ideas are nice but you need to be able to do it.  Maybe Natalie and Alexis wanted to, maybe Cirie wanted to, but the bridge between them that could make this nice idea real was Parvati, and it meant a big risk for her, both in terms of the immediate game (she's stuck her neck out in a big way, James will not and Amanda may not ever forgive/trust her again) and long-term game (two votes at least she will never ever get at FTC, and Eliza and Ozzy in a long long sojourn at Ponderosa to poison the jury against her.  Cirie orchaestrated the Erik vote like a Mozart sonata, but I feel comfortable giving the Ozzy blindside to Parvati.

I only watched on the weekend and even I can't remember for sure but Cirie was trying to stir up anti-Ozzy sentiment for a long time. She spent half the pre-merge in Amanda's ear about how Ozzy was all about Ozzy and couldn't be trusted etc. Parv said she knew she couldn't beat him. Jason brought it up. It may have been Natalie who *said* it that day but everyone bar Ozzy, Amanda, James and Erik was thinking it. I agree with you in terms of whose "move" it was though - Parv was the one who flipped on her core alliance to make it happen. 

[MissEwa]

40 minutes ago, enlightenedbum said:

And it gets at the weirdest thing about Parvati's win to me.  She comes off as a spoiled brat in Cook Islands, and while it's less so in Micronesia, it's definitely still there as far as I'm concerned.  Then she wins the million and as best I can tell... became a pretty cool person.  That's not how I'd expect that to go.

Yeah this is a thing. I have been majorly hyping this season to a friend who's just getting into Survivor. She's watched Cook Islands, Exile Island, China and Fiji for returning player context (I couldn't make her watch Vanuatu, given I can barely watch it), and there's a part of me thinking she's going to haaaate the mean-girl win. I always think of Parvati as really likeable but I think she gets that way more through HvV - despite aligning with Russell. She plays a much better game here than in Cook Islands but there's definitely still a bit of that cliquey Queen Bee brattiness about her. Or about her edit at least. 

[Star Aristille]

1 hour ago, enlightenedbum said:

That episode is actually the funniest one of that very, very funny post-merge.  I think it's also the episode where Erik meditates on boobs on the island of Yap?  That might be later in the season I don't remember exactly when that amazing bit of comedy happens.

That was later, in Erik's own boot episode.

[Daisy]

I did like the "is that okay" because sometimes people answer the question and that's not even what they wanted to know. I think it shows the humility, but it also opens it up to - i'm game to keep going/answer more if you're not. 

[RescueMom]

This was the first season I ever watched, so it seemed like this should be the first one I ever re-watched. I’m about halfway through and loving it as much as I did the first time. Although I had forgotten how brutal so many of the challenges were, not just the one where so many got badly injured. 

I had also forgotten just how much and immediately I hated Joel, Jason, and Mike - very satisfying to see each of them get taken out. I still love Tracey and would love to see her play again - watching her play Joel like a fiddle is all kinds of amazing. Still hate Chet for screwing her over just so he could get “voted out honorably” instead of quitting.  And Jonathan Penner will always be my One True Survivor Love.

[ljenkins782]

On 6/15/2017 at 5:49 AM, MissEwa said:

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And it gets at the weirdest thing about Parvati's win to me.  She comes off as a spoiled brat in Cook Islands, and while it's less so in Micronesia, it's definitely still there as far as I'm concerned.  Then she wins the million and as best I can tell... became a pretty cool person.  That's not how I'd expect that to go.

Yeah this is a thing. I have been majorly hyping this season to a friend who's just getting into Survivor. She's watched Cook Islands, Exile Island, China and Fiji for returning player context (I couldn't make her watch Vanuatu, given I can barely watch it), and there's a part of me thinking she's going to haaaate the mean-girl win. I always think of Parvati as really likeable but I think she gets that way more through HvV - despite aligning with Russell. She plays a much better game here than in Cook Islands but there's definitely still a bit of that cliquey Queen Bee brattiness about her. Or about her edit at least. 

I don't think Parvati really changed, her edit evolved with each season, but the glimmers of mean-girl are always there depending on who she's interacting with. She's very comfortable with her own social standing/social skills and is a little dismissive of those are who are less so. Nothing wrong with that per se, but not necessarily the mark of a nice person. 

Parvati comes off a little better in Micronesia because she turned on that "instant-BFF" charm to reel in Amanda, Natalie, and Alexis. She was being likable to gain allies, but it seems like a switch that can be turned on and off. Her vibe in HvVs was more adversarial based on the target on her back, but again, she reeled in Danielle and Russell. Some people just have that talent, but I don't think there was much sincerity behind it (not that there needed to be, it's Survivor.) 

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I had also forgotten just how much and immediately I hated Joel, Jason, and Mike - very satisfying to see each of them get taken out. I still love Tracey and would love to see her play again - watching her play Joel like a fiddle is all kinds of amazing. Still hate Chet for screwing her over just so he could get “voted out honorably” instead of quitting.  And Jonathan Penner will always be my One True Survivor Love.

 

Ugh, I hated all of those people too. The immediate overconfidence of Joel/Mike followed by an immediate downfall was very satisfying. Jason was awful in the beginning but by the time he finally got snuffed, I almost felt bad for him. He got his comeuppance in the form of ostracizing far before they cut him loose, but unless you remembered back to the beginning when he himself was the ostracizing jackass, it was almost hard to watch.

Chet...oof. For such a great season, they had some serious casting misfires. Kathy's mental breakdown, Chet's complete and utter wet-noodleness, these were people who should not have been cast. I can't imagine a single scenario where Chet could have prevailed in this game. No physical, strategic, or social game whatsoever. The only reason he aligned with anyone at all was because Kathy and Tracey also got shunned for being older than 25, which I think may have been a surprise for Tracey, she's obviously in good shape and probably did not expect to be cast out as the old lady right off the bat. 

[LadyChatts]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:51 AM, RescueMom said:

This was the first season I ever watched, so it seemed like this should be the first one I ever re-watched. I’m about halfway through and loving it as much as I did the first time. Although I had forgotten how brutal so many of the challenges were, not just the one where so many got badly injured. 

I had also forgotten just how much and immediately I hated Joel, Jason, and Mike - very satisfying to see each of them get taken out. I still love Tracey and would love to see her play again - watching her play Joel like a fiddle is all kinds of amazing. Still hate Chet for screwing her over just so he could get “voted out honorably” instead of quitting.  And Jonathan Penner will always be my One True Survivor Love.

I couldn't really hate Jason, only because he was so hilariously bad at this game in every way (seriously, Stevie Wonder would have known that the stick idol was a fake).  It sounded as if he wasn't well liked by the cast, either.  Joel's blindside was delicious in the sense that he thought he was Mr. Macho leading a team of weaklings and getting rid of the stronger players on his tribe (well, I don't know if Mary was strong, but probably better than Chet or Kathy).  And then thought he was going to be on the right side of things with the tribe swap.  I am happy that Chet outlasted him, but agree with you that I hate he pretty much screwed Tracy's game but asking to get voted off.  I really enjoyed her and am disappointed she's never returned.  I suppose never say never, but this is why I get frustrated sometimes at the 3-4 time players, when there's a lot of amazing contestants who have only had one chance to play but could probably do so much better a second time. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by LadyChatts

[Corporal Agarn]

Just finished this season and I dunno, it just didn’t do it for me. I kept seeing how high it was ranked and maybe I was just expecting too much. Part of it is I found 3 of the F4 utterly annoying (and Cirie is just okay, I did not like her nearly as much here as I did the first go-round). I just felt there was too much ‘mean girl’ crap going on and that’s not fun to watch. Penner being evacuated for medical reasons was a disappointing end for him. I never cried watching Survivor before! I think my interest in the season died when he left. 

[Bryce Lynch]

On 6/25/2016 at 12:06 PM, cherrypj said:

All right, so Erik just gave up his immunity idol.

My first thought was, "No. No! DUMB! NO! You DUMMY!" Never ever give up immunity. James yelled out, "I'm no longer the stupidest Survivor ever!" I don't like James, but I couldn't disagree.

But if I make it all about Erik being an idiot, I'm giving short shrift to the four women: Cirie, Amanda, Parvati, and Natalie (CAP'N). What a stunning plan. Stunning play. To persuade someone to give up their idol!! Amazing. 

Then I worried, "Is this bullying? Piling on a young guy like that?" I didn't think so. So why do I think Tom bullied Ian? Is it because I liked Ian more than I liked Erik (I do)? Is it because it was the coordination of CAP'N? I can't consider one bullying and the other not. (Funny enough: Palau and Micronesia were the same place.)

What an iconic moment. 

I think you may be giving the women too much credit.  IMO, it was simply an inexplicable,  idiotic move by Erik.  Everyone on the jury was laughing as soon as he did it and knew he would be voted out.  IIRC, in the voting booth the ladies didn't comment on how brilliant they were, but how stupid Erik was.