S02.E09: Sinned Against

[Kiwi123]

I loved so many of last season's songs: Adios; No Apologies; You're So Beautiful; Walk Out On Me; Conqueror; Money for Nothing; Good Enough; Keep It Movin'; Keep Your Money... I'd preordered the season soundtrack after two episodes. However, I haven't downloaded any songs from this season. The quality has plummeted, in my opinion, and I agree that the lack of duets between Jamal and Hakeem is one of the reasons.

[missbonnie]

I have that Drip Drop on my MP3. You may now mock me.

I downloaded it onto my phone along with Bang Bang Bang, don't feel bad. LOL

[Babalu]

I haven't looked at IMDb to see if Adam Rodriguez is listed in any upcoming episodes, but I'm not convinced Laz is dead - yet. My speculation is he told Lucius he's a cop, Lucius told him to get out of his sight forever, but that he'll show up at Cookie's concert and save her and Hakeem from the bull-tattoo gang, killing one or two of them and possibly being killed himself (dying in Cookie's arms, natch).

[Dejana]

I didn't know it was new last week, and just caught up. There are so many other stories you could tell with Anika, and this show picks the Fatal Attraction route? Over Hakeem? I would kind of buy Camilla going BSC over Hakeem rather than Anika. She could also attract a much more mature guy, but with Camilla, they were much more seriously involved. Also, maybe because it's Naomi Campbell and we know she can have something of a temper.

 

Alicia Keys looked gorgeous but sounded like Alicia Keys, hardly someone who plays to the "sorority girl" crowd (though I guess it depends on which sororities, lol) and is boxed in as the perfect little pop star. During last week's previews, I thought I was getting a romantic vibe between her character and Jamal but disregarded it because he's gay. This is a guy whose father has been trying to push him back in the closet practically all his life, he was married to a woman and only had sex with her once, he's not bad looking and has probably had unknowing (and knowing) girls throw themselves at him through the years, but now he's feeling it with a woman? Sure, he was quite the gushing fanboy, and I guess anyone can have their "exception", but it feels more like a twist done for shock value and maybe responding to the complaints about the show being too gay. Or, else they just don't know how to write a good story for a male love interest of his: the chef guy just loafed around complaining and I guess that other hot documentary guy got another show between seasons, so they figure, why not a woman? Even last season, I just didn't think Lee Daniels' writing sensibilities would lend themselves to long-form storytelling, and this storyline is just one more sign.

 

Lucious is stupid to sell everything to go all in on a streaming service, as they're having trouble with growth for paying customers and the biggest names threaten to pull their songs. The speculation that he's going to be diagnosed as bipolar at some point makes a lot of sense.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Dejana

[RCharter]

 

Lucious is stupid to sell everything to go all in on a streaming service, as having trouble with growth for paying customers. The speculation that he's going to be diagnosed as bipolar at some point makes a lot of sense.

now wouldn't THAT be interesting!

 

You're right about Naomi Campbell, I would absolutely accept a little BSC from her, because she is Naomi Campbell, and I love her no matter how poorly she behaves.

[Dee]

Anika going crazy is completely in character & every good soap needs its resident crazy bitch.

[Grace19]

I don't know about the interview, but the most popular songs last season were, no apologies, you're so beautiful, good enough, conqueror and drip drop. Except for good enough, none was solely performed by jamal. This season had too much of jamal's song and 90% of the songs were not that good, and the soundtrack flopped on the charts. They don't seem to realize that jussie and yazz are at their best when they perform together, but they are too busy trying to show that jamal is this music god.

[Grace19]

On a more serious note, the show should cut down on the music and develope the characters and their relationships. This show did not become popular because of the music. It was the relationships that drew us in. Lets have more cookie vs lucious, andre being a big brother to jamal and hakeem. On that note why don't we see them to go him for advice, lets have rhonda and hakeem, rhonda and cookie, rhonda and everybody, tiana and cookie, anika and jamal, the possibilities are endless.

[RCharter]

On a more serious note, the show should cut down on the music and develope the characters and their relationships. This show did not become popular because of the music. It was the relationships that drew us in. Lets have more cookie vs lucious, andre being a big brother to jamal and hakeem. On that note why don't we see them to go him for advice, lets have rhonda and hakeem, rhonda and cookie, rhonda and everybody, tiana and cookie, anika and jamal, the possibilities are endless.

I agree, I like the music of Empire, but its gotten to be a bit much.  I think they have seen how great a revenue stream the songs have been and decided to double down.  But I started watching Empire for the drama, and Cookie's outfits.  The music was just a bonus, how it seems like its going the other way.  You get a lot of songs and the drama is a bonus.

[Timetoread]

Am I the only one who thinks that Alicia is playing a transgender man?  She said that she wishes she could live her truth or something like that.  And Jamal, a very gay man  - so much so that he only managed to screw his wife once while drunk, might sense that she is actually a HE.  That's my thought.

[tmelange]

I think Alicia being transgender is the only thing that would make sense.

[RCharter]

I think Alicia being transgender is the only thing that would make sense.

I don't want to offend anyone.  But isn't Jamal attracted to men that he knows are men?  Unless maybe the argument is that its some pharemon thing, wouldn't he just think he was attracted to a woman?  Which still wouldn't make much sense for a gay man, to me at least.

[Timetoread]

No, I think the kiss men was his way of confirming to "her" that he KNOWS the truth and that the secret is safe with him.

[RCharter]

No, I think the kiss men was his way of confirming to "her" that he KNOWS the truth and that the secret is safe with him.

but how would Jamal know that?

[Timetoread]

Maybe he figured it out.  I mean in real life it's not that hard to tell, but for dramatic purposes, she kept alluding to a secret about herself and maybe Jamal figured it out.

[tmelange]

I don't know. I just think it's odd that Lee Daniels and Ilene Chaiken, both gay individuals, would go this route with Jamal after the entire drama of last season. It's like validating Lucifer's position that all Jamal needs to not be gay is to find the right girl. That being gay is a choice. That's a dangerous message to get behind.

[Dee]

Jamal sleeping with a woman once doesn't make him not gay.

[Rae Spellman]

 

And Jamal, a very gay man  - so much so that he only managed to screw his wife once while drunk, might sense that she is actually a HE.

 

His wife was also someone his father forced him to marry rather than someone he was attracted to who happened to be a woman.

 

 

Jamal sleeping with a woman once doesn't make him not gay.

 

Indeed. Even sleeping with Skye several times wouldn't necessarily mean that.

 

 

I just think it's odd that Lee Daniels and Ilene Chaiken, both gay individuals, would go this route with Jamal after the entire drama of last season.

 

Maybe they know gay people who found themselves attracted to/involved with someone of the opposite gender. Maybe they can imagine a world where sexuality isn't always as black and white for straight people or gay people as people want/need it to be. Plus, this is far from the oddest thing that has happened on Empire. Or the most dangerous message. This is a show about unrepentant drug dealers, murders, black mailers, etc. Is any demographic (women, men, white people, black people, mothers, fathers, etc.) shown in a good or overwhelmingly realistic light? 

 

 

 

 

[RCharter]

I don't know. I just think it's odd that Lee Daniels and Ilene Chaiken, both gay individuals, would go this route with Jamal after the entire drama of last season. It's like validating Lucifer's position that all Jamal needs to not be gay is to find the right girl. That being gay is a choice. That's a dangerous message to get behind.

 

 

Maybe they know gay people who found themselves attracted to/involved with someone of the opposite gender. Maybe they can imagine a world where sexuality isn't always as black and white for straight people or gay people as people want/need it to be. Plus, this is far from the oddest thing that has happened on Empire. Or the most dangerous message. This is a show about unrepentant drug dealers, murders, black mailers, etc. Is any demographic (women, men, white people, black people, mothers, fathers, etc.) shown in a good or overwhelmingly realistic light? 

 

This is why I think the show is trying to show pansexuality versus Jamal being into trans, or being bi-sexual per se.

 

But, I see why this might be a dangerous way to try to send the message.  The pushback from the show last year from some was that the main character was openly gay and shown in scenes being affectionate with another man.  To now make that characters love interest a woman does risk sending the message that either all a man needs is the right woman to turn him straight, or that the powers behind the show are capitulating to the demand of a few vocal opponents of having an openly gay character on the show.

 

I love Empire, but it is not a show that explores a lot of subtle shades of grey.  And it may attract people who can't see, or won't see the nuanced approach.

[jhlipton]

The average person watching these shows isn't going to think, "Oh, I thought he was gay but now he may be bisexual? That's actually not out of the realm of possibility! Understanding one's sexuality can be an arduous process.", it's more like, "There's too much gay shit on TV and I'm tired of it, so I'm glad I don't have to see as much of it anymore." with a dash of, "homosexuality is a choice -- look at Mimi and Jamal!", and that's what upsets me so much about these characters.

 

Throughout the scene, I was making comments for Skye:  "Could be just a little not-gay?  Just a bit?"  Then Jamal turned out to be attracted to her, which doesn't mesh with any of the gay men I know.  Add in Lucious' "She fixed you." which a lot of viewers are going to believe and YUCK!  

 

 

I miss seeing Tiana, too. I love her and Hakeem as partners/friends. I also really like Hakeem with Laura.

And I continue to love the way Cookie and Hakeem's relationship has grown this season. When she told him she was proud of him in this ep, my heart just swelled.

 

Ugh -- I hate what they did with Laura.  She went from  "I'll never be one of your hoochie-mamas" to smoochie-smoochie in an instant.  I would much rather they had a woman that wasn't seduced by Hakeem.

[Eolivet]

I like what they're doing with Anika, and here's why: she's the key to bringing Hakeem back into the fold. Sure, Lucious is making nice with his mentally disturbed son (all while having massive flashbacks about his own troubled mother) and his son's white wife. But to have Hakeem's son? Hakeem, with the talent and the drive? And with (in his mind) Hakeem not being ready for fatherhood, who'd be the de facto father? The chance to have three dynasties of Lyon musical talent? You'd better believe (or I do anyway) the issues with Andre would all come rushing back if Lucious had the opportunity to mold and shape Hakeem's son.

 

But now that Anika is slightly unhinged, and is carrying that precious cargo (once Lucious finds out and I'm guessing he will), she will have them over a barrel. Not crazy! Anika might've been practical: wanted money, but wanted to keep the child for herself. But this Anika wants it all and she won't play nice anymore. She will be here to get what's hers, to borrow a phrase. It also creates a rivalry with Rhonda -- two characters that didn't seem to interact much last season. But more importantly, it brings Anika back into the Lyon orbit, where she started.

 

This story could play out in many ways: Rhonda loses the baby, Anika loses hers and blackmails Rhonda into giving up her baby (well, the show does take its inspiration from Glee), but I think (or I hope anyway) that Anika will be either really or fake giving birth. This throws a wrench into many relationships, especially ones that have just started to heal and rebuild.

 

But Anika was introduced as an antagonist, and this plot puts her right back into that role. I think it makes sense and I kind of can't wait to see how it plays out.